Put this out on a lot of social media, so this should be a very interesting meeting. We've got some questions from the subscribers. Anthony and I also reviewed the numbers, have some questions. But before we get into all that, we wanted to walk through the actual presentation itself. So I'll flip it over to you, Romain. You can share your screen, and we'll walk through the numbers for Q2.
Yep, this is great. I think it's a good way for us to go over this presentation. Are you? Do you have it in a full screen?
We do. Yep, we're on now.
All right.
Anthony's joined. Kyle's here. We're good to go, Romain.
Perfect. Look, thank you everyone for being here. I'm not going to be too long on the presentation. We're gonna go mainly about who we are very quickly for the people who don't know us. And then we will talk specifically about the Q2 financials with Kyle, our CFO, who is here. He will take the stage, and then we will spend most of the time, I hope, on your questions. If you have any, as you know, you can put them in the chat, and as you say, Bryce, I know you and Anthony have some, so we'll be happy to address them. Before I start, the traditional forward-looking information, if you're a lawyer, please take some time to look at everything.
What we are saying here is forward-looking information, obviously. For people who don't know us, who are we? We are a Bitcoin miner since 2017. I created the company in 2017 with a few other partners, and we decided to start mining at the time. We mine from Quebec in Canada, and today we run 20 megawatt of energy, which is close to 0.1% of the total Bitcoin hash rate. We are self miners, meaning that we are mining for ourself. We are operating our own computers, and we are infrastructure people, meaning that we have a direct contract for our energy, one of the best energy in the world. It's from Quebec. It's 100% renewable.
And it's also very stable energy, and on top of it, it's one of the best price you can find in the market, around CAD 0.043 per kWh. Because of that, we've been able to grow over the years, and to show extremely a good result over the years and over the quarter. As you know, being a Bitcoin miners and being an infrastructure people like us, again, no intermediary between our energy and the compute power we produce. It means that we need to deploy CapEx. We have two types of CapEx to deploy. One is for the infrastructure, transforming the energy, cooling the data centers, building the data centers, the network of the data centers.
And the second type of CapEx for the computing power, buying the mining rigs, which we have done over the years. That's what we've done since 2017. In 2021, we decided to become listed because it's in order to get access to more CapEx, either in debt or in equity or equity. We wanted to have more leverage, and we wanted to get access to more capital, mainly by becoming public. And that's what we did in 2021. We are now listed on the TSXV in Canada, under the ticker SATO. And we're also available in the U.S. on the OTC with the ticker CCPUF.
Of course, our goal now at this time of the company, and this is what we are going to to talk right now, is: What do we do from there? We believe in the market, in Bitcoin in general. I'm not talking for us, but we see cycles of 4 years. We believe we are at the beginning of a new cycle for Bitcoin, and we want to experience it, and we want to to use it the most to grow to the maximum and as fast as we can. In order to do that, we have two very simple, focused strategies. The first one is to use our energy in our data center number one in Quebec, and to upgrade our fleet of miners and continuing ex...
Operating our existing fleet so that we will reach around 1.7 EH/s of mining power with the energy we have, plus exporting our current fleet outside of our energy. The reason why we want to do this, and the reason why we are focusing on doing it at a very short term, is because we will basically, for the same cost of energy, we will double our revenues. We'll double the number of Bitcoin we make, and also, our margin. So it's a very interesting way and a very interesting time to do it in the market today because the cost of the hash rate is less expensive and miners are available. How do we do that? We want to be, of course, more efficient. It's a time where post-halving, we need to be even more efficient.
Efficiency can be done at many levels for Bitcoin miners, on your miners itself. That's why we want to do a full fleet refresh. In the data center, how can you be efficient in running your data centers, in your cooling solution, in the electricity you manage, et cetera? That's what we've been doing. But it's also on how you manage the team working with you, and how can you have a lean organization? And that's what we've been working on for the past three to six months. So efficiency, and you can look also at the graph on the right of your screen. We are extremely good.
We are ranking the top three, by you, Anthony, and Bryce, on the last study you published in July for Compass Mining. In Bitcoin mining per Exahash, over the year 2024, we are ranking number three. You can see number one and two. They have the same average as than us, except, two companies have two numbers after the commas. One thing we are also focusing on is how can we buy and deploy as fast as possible those two miners? So for the past few months, and we announced a little bit some of them, we have started to buy new generation of miners, this full fleet refresh.
We bought T21, S21, and S21 Pros, and we are operating around, like, 20 PH/s of these new miners, and we are planning to buy more. Why do we plan to buy more? Because we have access to different ways of doing it, on the money we are managing, and with various solutions that will allow us to buy at scale faster, those miners. And I will tell you later about at a later time more about it. One reason also that in which we can grow quickly is that in the month of June, we have an incident in 1/8 of our data centers.
And we have been working on resolving it, and we believe that sometime early in September, we'll be able to replug and to start again on where this the section in which the incident happened. So it's a good way for us also to win back some petahash with almost no cost. We are also in negotiation, as you can imagine, and discussion, and late-phase discussion with insurance about this incident. So really for us, first goal, how can we reach 1.7 EH/s as a total for the company? How do we get there?
1.2 EH/s , it's a full fleet refresh in our data center number one, and 0.5 EH/s, this is what we currently have, that we can host and export somewhere else. That's short-term goal. Midterm goal, which is also for us, we hope as soon as we can. Of course, we can't give you any dates on anything, but we want to expand our operation. We are working extremely precisely with different kind of options for us to be able to go outside of Quebec and even go outside of Canada. Again, at the beginning of this Bitcoin cycle we are entering, we believe it's the right time to do it.
We are following the steps of other Bitcoin miners who have been able to deploy lots of capital and grow very, very quickly at the beginning of the last cycle. They are today listed on Nasdaq, and you can see still on the right of your screen there, most of those miners are in the list. And we believe this is our turn to do it, and we're going to announce new solutions for us to go outside of Quebec, and we want to use this expansion to also add AI and HPC in the mix. Again, we are transforming energy into computing power. We are doing it for Bitcoin mining.
We have the expertise, the experience to do it, and we believe from what we have looked at and what we have worked on, it will be more than possible for us to develop data centers for AI and HPC. Knowing that the strategy, and we already explained that in a previous presentation, I'm not going to spend too much time on it today, but the strategy for AI and HPC for SATO, it's really to do infrastructure only. We don't want to buy the GPUs. We want to rent our space like a traditional data centers. We also believe that it's not only AI and HPC, it's compute power in general.
There are new technologies that are emerging that are very interesting today, related to Bitcoin or zero-knowledge proof, where you have cryptographic computing and people will need energy, and they will need more than energy. They will need people who know how to transform it. That's us. Now I'm gonna give the stage to Kyle, our CFO, to discuss more about the Q2 results. If you want, what are we saying today? Q2, this is the quarter of the halving. It happened on April nineteenth. And despite this, as you said, Bryce, we have good numbers with strong treasury balance in our data centers.
What we are showing is that we are increasing our revenues on the digital assets. We are showing that we are positive cash flow for our operation. This is extremely important. Our data center makes money, and this is really why and how we can pass the crypto returns, the halvings and the price of the Bitcoin, the price of the difficulty increasing and everything. And we have a positive EBITDA. So that's really the things that are important, I think, into these financials. I will now let Kyle discuss more in detail all of the numbers. Kyle?
Thanks, Romain, and sorry for some tech issues with my video. So this slide here, you can see 2023 compared to our current 2024 results for Q1, Q2, and the 6 months ended, so the combined Q1, Q2. As Romain mentioned, there was two incidents or that affected Q2. There was the halving event and the fire on June first that affected just over 10% of our power. So despite that, we still earned a really strong revenues of CAD 10 million in the 6 months ended June 30th, compared to CAD 8 million, just over CAD 8 million in 2023. Also in 2023, we stopped hosting other miners in July, so the first two quarters of 2023 are representative of hosting as well.
Romain, if you mind just throwing up the screen there again for us?
Yeah. Sorry.
No problem.
Just putting it back. Do you see it?
You bet. Yeah, there we go, Kyle. Sorry about that.
Okay, so the CAD 8 million in 2023, there was CAD 2 million of our self-mining revenues and CAD 6 millions of hosting revenues, compared to all self-mining in 2024. 2024, we earned 129 Bitcoin for the six-month period and 46 BTC in Q2, compared to 59 BTC in 2023 for the six-month period, and 29 BTC in Q2 2023. And despite the halving and the fire event, which negatively impacted our revenue, the increase of price of Bitcoin had a strong positive impact. In 2023, the first 6 months, the Bitcoin ranged between about CAD 16,000 and CAD 30,000, compared to 2024, where it ranged between CAD 42,000 and CAD 73,000 on the highs and lows.
As you can see, our gross profit is strong again for the six months ended June 30th. We try to be very efficient in our mining. Our cost of revenue mainly is obviously the big component there is electricity, in addition to some insurance, personnel, and depreciation. In the Q2, you can see we had a net loss in 2024. So what other items contributed to the net loss? We had an unrealized loss on the Bitcoins at June 30th, so we have to revalue our holdings at the end of the period. So, comparative to the previous quarter, the price fell, so there was a unrealized loss, a non-cash item, given the volatility of the price of Bitcoin.
As well, given the decline in price from Q1 to the end of Q2, when we sold our Bitcoin to fund some of our operations, we had a realized loss of CAD 250,000, so both of those impacted our net profit for Q2, but you'll see on the next slide, for our Adjusted EBITDA, by removing those items, we'll have a positive Adjusted EBITDA, so here on this slide, this represents our key three of our key performance indicators that we like to use to measure our performance. These are non-IFRS measures, so compute power profit is basically our gross profit, our revenues, less cost of sales, excluding depreciation.
So it really, to us, is showing us our true profit, and you can see a 395% increase from Q2 2024 over 2023. And then again, our EBITDA, positive EBITDA, strong, and then Adjusted EBITDA, as I mentioned, is EBITDA excluding also non-cash and non-recurring items. So we excluded our unrealized losses in there. So in Q2, positive EBITDA of CAD 866,000, and for Q1, it was CAD 2.5 million. So our performance and our key indicators of performance are very strong again in 2024. And if we want to continue here, so here we can see our cash position and our digital assets position at June 30th.
The breakdown between the two, you can see here we hold over CAD 900,000 in cash and over CAD 4.6 million in digital assets. So combined, almost CAD 5.6 million at June 30th. This is a very strong position for us at the end of the quarter. This slide, you can see, a nice summary of our capital structure. Shares outstanding, we try to maintain a low level of shares outstanding at CAD 72 million. Options, CAD 6.4 million. Warrants, CAD 1.8 million, for fully diluted shares outstanding of just over CAD 81 million. And our tickers, as you can see, we trade on the TSXV under SATO and the OTCQB under CCPUF.
If I may, Kyle, I'm gonna play my role of CEO. The share price, in my mind, it's very undervalued. If you look at the comparables in the industry or for the peers or for the Bitcoin miners publicly listed, and if you run the numbers between even enterprise value, megawatt, or exahash, I believe our stock price and our market cap is very undervalued. Of course, I don't know any CEO who would say that their company is overvalued, but it was important for me to note it.
Great. Well, we appreciate the presentation, you guys, and look forward to the Q&A here.
Cool.
We'll let you finish up, and we're getting some questions in the chat already, so.
Look, everything has been said. I think, people who are here also follow the markets, understand who is who, and what is being done in the current market. What we see now is a market where the price of the Bitcoin has not doubled after the halving. So it means that all of the Bitcoin miners, we are under the same pressure of being even more efficient. And efficiency, again, that's your fleet of miners, that's your data centers, and how you run it, and how can you expand from this timing? And this is where we are today.
We are focused on expanding not only our hash rate for Bitcoin mining, but also adding more and more power for managing computing power in general. This is really the goal of the company. It's true that most of the time, we tend to focus really on either the price of the Bitcoin on a day-to-day basis, even on quarter results for listed companies, but we are building long term. We're here from a long time. We started in 2017. I'm an entrepreneur. I've been building companies my whole life. We are here for the long term, and we have a long-term vision of what we want to accomplish.
And we are in the starting blocks with an amazing company listed in Canada, where we can go in different ways. So it's a very exciting time for us. And thank you everyone for following us, for being with us, and just watch where we're gonna go during the next months, years, and even decades.
Amazing. Well, we'll jump into the Q&A now, Romain. We're getting a number of questions.
Sure.
So that's great. We've got a slide here. We'll keep this up on the screen. Again, apologies, Kyle and Anthony's video is not working this morning, guys, but we've got them on audio here. Anthony Power and Kyle Appleby, CFO of SATO Technologies. First one we wanted to talk about, Romain, I think it was 1/3 or 1/4 down on that last slide you had. You talk about HPC opportunity, and we've actually got a question about how do you plan on implementing HPC and AI within your business? This is something we've seen a lot of the miners really pivot towards, and we wanted to get kind of the full picture in terms of how you're viewing this opportunity.
Look, it's very simple. AI and HPC for us, it's providing a data center that we can rent per kilowatt-hour. So what we need to build is a data center that can host racks of 100 kW or 100 kW , ready to host GPUs for clients. The way you do that, you have a data center, Tier 2, Tier 3, Tier 1, Tier 0, depending on what you want to build, and you can sell it per kilowatt-hour at a different price. But the goal here is to make a margin on the price of energy we pay, CAD 0.043 per kWh, and the price you can resell it. So this is really the case for AI and HPC. Why? Because we don't wanna play with the cycle of the chips.
We don't know the GPUs, what they will be, the renewal process and everything. We want to host long-term clients for people who want to host their LLM or their GPUs in our data center and sell per kilowatt hour. At least at the beginning of the new AI cycle, we want to play that route. It's a secure route because we, as you know, the difference between Bitcoin mining and AI and HPC is that in AI and HPC, you need to manage clients. You need to find... making sure that your clients can pay. They are a good client, and it's different than Bitcoin mining.
That's why by providing the infrastructure, selling it on a kilowatt-hour basis, we believe this is the best way and the fastest way to make extra revenues and extra margin. It pays very well today because despite of the new NVIDIA results and some vision of where the market can go, I still believe the demand is still increasing for data center in general. This is what we are building. We want to play on our forces. Our forces is what we know how to transform energy into computing power, and that's how we want to do it for AI and HPC.
At the same time, and I will finish with this, I believe that we can win by mixing AI and HPC with Bitcoin mining at the electricity level, because with Bitcoin mining, we can curtail our energy. It means that we can stop our computers on the spot in milliseconds or in seconds, and it's a great way to balance the grid. So you can have the Bitcoin mining, who will play the role of balancing the grid and your AI and HPC that stays a steady power and stable power. I think this is a way we will be able to win more energy contract and to transform different kind of data centers, playing both at the same time. Not to mention that Bitcoin mining is cyclical. AI and HPC is less cyclical.
At least there is no volatility on the price. There is no halving, but it's Bitcoin mining in some times, where the hash rate is right and the price of the Bitcoin is right, and it's always recurring, it's always coming back. It's extremely beneficial and profitable to mine Bitcoin. So I think keeping both in sight is a way to go for the next phase, of course, at least for our company.
Excellent. Now we're gonna jump into some viewer questions, Romain. We've actually got quite a good list here. We're hitting an all-time high for view count right now. So, Anthony will ask some of the questions we have. I'll ask some of the viewer questions. We'll kind of alternate at you here. So the first one from Life of Lane asks: "Would you consider selling the business or any potential M&A to support the growth this year?
It's a good question, and it's an interesting time in the market because we see consolidation is happening. We've been talking about it for a long time, and we've seen consolidation phases also in Bitcoin in the past. We see lots of news happening, being done in the market with GRIID, with Bitfarms. People are consolidating. It makes sense to consolidate to go bigger, but also to make an economy of scale on your outside of operation cost. Mainly the listing cost, lawyers, legal, IR, everything that you need to do to be running a publicly listed company. If you merge, if you go with someone else, it makes sense in difficult times. I'm an entrepreneur. I've been developing and selling companies my whole life.
If it happens on the road, it will happen. Right now, we are focusing on growing as fast and as big as we can, and if something happens where it makes sense, we will see. But right now, our focus grow to more than 1 EH/s, if we can, 1.7 EH/s with our data center number one and our existing fleet, and then expand by doing acquisition. At this point, I also believe there are ways for us to find acquisition targets rather than being a target. But again, let's see where the future will lead. There is, you know, in technology, we often use if you can't beat them, join them. However, in Bitcoin mining, there is no beating. There is like a consensus of Bitcoin miners working together.
So we can exist by continuing existing the way we want, except that's not what we want. We want to grow, and we'll see what happen. But right now, focus growing our operation, our mining power, our AI and HPC business.
Romain, it's Anthony. I just obviously going back to your update there, and you had the impact of the fire in June. From a sort of like financial position, how much did that affect your quarterly earnings? Was there, you know, able to achieve insurance payment for obviously for loss of earnings or to get things, you know, replaced and fixed?
Mm-hmm.
You indicated that your 90% there, of completing what of the area that was affected? Just expand a little bit more on that, please.
Sure. Sure, happy to do so. So to your question, the impact on this, we lost 10% or close to 10% of our mining power with this incident. And it means that we are making 10% less revenues, but also that we are spending 10% less of power, because it's not consumed. We were not paying for the power that we were using before, though. And in the end, it's not really problematic, except that we make less revenues. It's never good when we have a 20 MW of energy like we have, we want to use them to the maximum. So what happened? We had a start of a fire in one of our section.
We have eight sections, and in one section, we have around like 12 racks. Out of these 12 racks, there is two racks that were under the incident. The rest, we've been able to rebuild them, and we are. I would say, I said 90%. I believe it's still, you know, when it's not plugged and when it's not started, you can't really say anything, but I believe very early on in September, we'll be able to restart this section and start mining and adding more petahash from it. Why? Because it was very little, what happened at the end, and all our fail-safe started and then were extremely efficient, so we've been able to contain it.
Actually, when the fire happened, when the incident happened, it happened on a Saturday at 8:00 P.M. Always the worst time. The Sunday at 8:00 P.M., we started back the mining facility. So that's how we manage this kind of incident in our data centers. Insurance-wise, it takes time. We have not finalized with them. We have a total of CAD 12.5 million insurance on our mining facility. So it has been published into our MD&A. We're working with them for the cost or the price related to the infrastructure that we had to replace, currently done, and the price of the miners that were unusable after this incident. So we'll see.
We hope in Q3 or Q4, at least for sure before the end of the year, well, we will have resolved the insurance part.
So you've incurred some of the costs in that quarterly, but you'll expect to receive some of the benefits from the insurance in probably the next quarter earnings update. That's probably how it, how you-
The benefit of mining again.
Yeah. More importantly, the benefit of mining again.
More importantly. Exactly.
How quick was it you were able to get machines to replace? Did you have machines on order, or did you have to go out and purchase machines to replace the ones that were damaged?
So we started to buy new miners already. We announced it in our monthly report. We bought T21, S21, S21 pros, and this is what we want to do. This is the beauty of our business. With buying S21 pros, we bought like probably 20 PH/s of them a few weeks ago. Twice more Bitcoin, same electricity price. So it's really interesting for us to grow as fast as we can and expand this fleet. Not only it will make us more revenues, more margin, but also we hope our valuation will be reflected in the fact that we can pass the 1 EH/s mark or the 1 EH/s. We can do it with Zero- CapEx.
It works tomorrow, and the beauty of the market today is that the price of the terahash is well priced. I wouldn't say it's low because it could always go lower, but today, S21 Pro, you can really find good deals to buy them, and more importantly than the price, they are spot order. So you order them, five days later, you receive them, and six days later, they work. You don't buy in the future on a price you don't know, and it's a perfect time for a Bitcoin miner to go. We've seen it again before, starting in 2017. So I've seen this cycle with the S9 or with the S19, with the S21, it's gonna be the same thing.
Buying and deploying hash rate today is a benefit of having this market post-halving, that the price of the hash rate is not going to the moon.
...Yeah. No, it's a good, good explanation, Romain. We've had a few questions about more M&A and, and, opportunities to grow, but I feel like you've kind of addressed that. One question we had here was: what is the biggest hurdle, to your... This is from Mark Young, to your company, in order to become one of the biggest players in this space? You just mentioned hash rate, which I think is obviously a big challenge for a lot of miners right now. Is there anything specific you can think of, Romain?
It's capital. How do you access capital? Capital for us as a listed company is we have two ways to find it. I mean, some private also, but at least for us, we have debt, and we have equity. Equity-wise, we wanna be smart, with the market cap and the dilution that you create when you do equity. We wanna do it in a way that it creates more value than the rest. I think by raising equity to buy miners, today will put us in that position.
Debt is also a great way for us to go and to be able to monetize our power transformed into Bitcoin mining, but really, I mean, I think the order for all Bitcoin miners is: how do we deploy capital at scale and fast, and in order to do it, the path is pretty clear today, the way in which you can acquire data centers, PPs, be able to go mainly in the U.S. and Canada or even in other countries. There is no place in the world today where if you have energy, you're not asking: how do I build a data center attached to it? These are for AI or HPC, also for Bitcoin mining.
It's true in Ethiopia, it's true in the US, it's true in Canada, it's true in everywhere. In the Middle East, everyone is doing it. People who have the expertise and the knowledge to do it, we are in the extremely well positioned to be able to perform and over-perform. But it's, it's a linear business. You can deploy cash, but if you wanna go big, you need to deploy a lot. So that's what we are working on.
We are also looking at expanding our volume of the market, the shares that I changed today, because we see that it creates also like people who are like looking at how can they invest in the company and how can they like move out if they want. It's true that we want long-term investors. We are building for the long term, but we also want to increase our volume, and we're working on it.
Romain, you said in the presentation you have some sort of like short-term and medium goals in terms of growth, and if I remember right, the short-term growth, 1.7 EH/s. I mean, you're currently, you know, operating and have been for quite a while now, at round abou 0.5 EH/s .
Mm-hmm.
Sort of from a short-term perspective, how long is a short-term timeline for you guys, and what will need to happen to actually, you know, get you to that position, of achieving that short-term goal?
Yeah. So, short answer, I don't have a date, and I can't provide a date. What I can tell you, it's a linear business. I could deploy CAD 1, not really CAD 1, but let's say CAD 1-CAD 2,000 to buy one miner or CAD 20 million to buy 4,000 miners. And that's what we're working on. And the way we do it is to use our capital, use our profit, use our cash, and also use our financing solution that we will announce at some point. But we want to go as fast as we can, and it's important for us to go as fast as we can because we have everything.
We have the Zero- CapEx to deploy, and we could really make way more revenues, and way more margin. So the short term for us could be in five days if we deploy today 100% of the CAD 20 million I was telling you for a full fleet reconstruction in our data center, spot price, spot market, ten days later, it mines.
We've seen a lot of miners actually been replacing older generation miners in their fleets and therefore not having to effectively grow the size of the buildings, the facilities.
Yeah.
What sort of hash rate could SATO achieve if you were to replace your current mining fleet with a more efficient mining fleet?
One-
I'm not saying you've got an inefficient fleet, but obviously there will be opportunities-
No, it's a... Look, it's a- we don't have the newest generation, like S21 Pro, for example, but we have of the latest generation, like S19j Pro and this kind of thing. So it's very good for the kind of energy price we have. Most of the mining fleet we have is fully amortized, so it's also a good point. Again, mining is a long-term game. You need to mine with a miner in the long run. That's what being efficient why being efficient is important. It's not only for the day-to-day mining, but it's also for the long-term vision on how you can manage your fleet. So the mining fleet we have is very good, and we want to continue using it.
But with the energy that we have, we could also put one point. If we were putting 100% of S21 Pros, we would use, we would reach just like this at 1.2 EH/s. Because we have 0.5, 0.5 + 1.2 equals, 1.7. This is why we think it's an achievable goal, of course, depending on how much money we can raise and how can we deploy the capital needed to do that. So that's what we have in mind for the growth of the company.
For our existing fleets, the 0.5 , what we are working on right now is to finding ways to expand outside of where we are, and this is what we will announce when it happens.
... Okay, so to clarify from your growth, if you were just to replace miners in your current facility-
Mm-hmm.
Would you be able to get close to that target just by utilizing your facility and utilizing the power you have currently available? Therefore, your only capital expenditure really then is the mining machines?
Exactly, yeah.
Okay.
Zero- CapEx for the infra. 100% for buying new miners, 1.2 EH/s. Then I have 0.5 EH/s ready to deploy, ready to sell, or ready to keep for later. Again, you need to manage your fleet the same way you could think of the investment that you have, and you want to be able to extract as much as you can, depending on the market you are in. Today, what I see for the market of buying miners, you can see that the price per terahash for the newer generation miners, it's very well priced, but it's not completely a bargain. It's not. You can buy an S21 Pro for nothing.
However, what you see also is that the miners of the least generation, like, three, four years old, the price per T is going down, but it's not gonna be like this forever. I remember a time was the S9, the famous, Bitcoin miner from 2016 , 2017 . On the secondary market, they were sold for nothing, like CAD 20 or CAD 25, and six months later, for CAD 600.
Yeah.
Yeah, it can, really take off in quite a big way. The next question has to do with, price takeoffs as well, Romain. It has to do with Bitcoin price, and, this is the last one from subscribers. But we're curious with, obviously, a lot of internal decisions being based on the price of Bitcoin, whether or not to HODL, to purchase new equipment, to expand, how does you and your team model for that? What do you use in terms of your internal, price targets or Bitcoin analysis?
I mean, we have a opportunistic way to manage this, in a sense that we have the long-term goal of creating a Bitcoin company who HODLs Bitcoin on their treasury. And if you wanna do that, you have two ways to do it: one, you buy Bitcoin, you do like MicroStrategy, or you mine Bitcoin like us, and that's a way to add Bitcoin on our treasury. At the same time, this is the only revenues that we make, so we need to sell some of our Bitcoin to pay for our cost. And the way we've been doing it so far, but it changes, it's not always the case, but so far, we just sell a certain number of Bitcoin at the same time, independently on the price.
Because we are not here to play for the highs and lows and the short term, we're here for being efficient with our mining power, and having enough cash and cash flow in the company to operate in the long run. So that's how we manage our decision on how to sell or keep our Bitcoin treasury.
Great. No, makes sense. Appreciate the explanation. We've got a few comments just saying they really enjoyed this presentation format as well.
Good
... Romain, and appreciating you for coming on. That's it for the viewers' questions. We're out at about 40 minutes. Anthony, I'll flip it back to you to finish up our list here, and Romain, then we can give you some closing thoughts.
Sure.
Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, being in this sort of, like, mining industry at the moment, from the public perspective, you are one of the smaller miners. But what do you see as some of the competitive advantages of being, you know, a smaller miner in this industry?
I guess, I mean, again, being small is not really the important. The important is to be efficient. Once you're efficient, go big. But the beauty of being smaller, or at least, is that you're more you manage easier. You can go in then various direction, and you're more flexible in the market. However, it's also true that the market, when you look at it, public companies who are listed on Nasdaq, you have 4-5 companies who are getting 90% of the money.
That thing, this is one of the things that I believe will change at some point, because at the end, smaller miners like us, we might be more risky, but we might have bigger income, bigger increase of valuation. When a Bitcoin miner who is already established on the Nasdaq is gonna get a 10x, maybe a smaller miner like us will take a 15x, or seven, then five, and depending on what you want, you get the point. So I think this is what it is, but at the same time, we all want to grow as big as we can.
It's a game where when you know how to manage it, when you know how to do it, there's no limit, and you don't want to be limited. And the only limit is the cash you can deploy. And again, in the long-term vision, 5, 10 years, developing and deploying computing power, this is the key in the next 10, 50, 15, 50 years. It's a new railroads, for me, and then this is what we are building. We are at the point in time where we are the size we are, but we are here to go as big as we can, and we hope more people will join us into that race.
Reversing back to the HPC issue, I mean, we've seen a couple of miners now, some of the bigger miners now actually stop revealing any growth opportunities for Bitcoin mining next year, because they look like they're progressing into the HPC space.
Mm-hmm.
We've seen, obviously, the massive contract that Core Scientific have acquired, and obviously, that's whet the appetite for every miner out there-
Mm-hmm
... whether they're a pure play miner or a miner that's considering HPC space. But can you tell us some of the, like, you know, the conversations that you're having with analysts and with, you know, with the institutions as regards to their view on the particular landscape at the moment? I mean, you've-
Mm-hmm
... you've articulated a growth in Bitcoin mining, but, you know, is it a case of, you're flexible, should the right, HPC deal become apparent as well?
Yeah. I mean, for us, the way to go in AI and HPC, it's even going further than just AI and HPC, it's computing power. Is how do I deploy a data center that can provide the type of energy needed to run any kind of computers, from Bitcoin miners, because they are evolving, they are changing their wattage, they are also a different form factor. Same thing for GPU. So that's really where I think we are focusing, and I think this is what will win in the future. Because today it's true that AI, it's the new world, and everyone loves it. We are also wondering, where are we in the phase? Where are we in the cycle of AI? Is it already overused?
Do we really need so much power for data centers for AI? AI, the way to be efficient is on your chip level, but also on the software level. You have new LLMs that are running with way less computing power than before, and this is one direction that the industry is going to, so we need to be cautious of that. Same way, for example, Apple, they have a different way to manage AI, where it's at the chip level, so it's gonna happen on your phone, on your computer, so it's not gonna be in big data centers. But all in all, I think computing power, the, Bitcoin mining, AI, HPC, data center of whatever level you want, cryptographic computing, the need is just going to increase.
And that's our business, that's what we are in, and that's where we are focusing, because we believe, again, in the next 5, 10, 20 years, the demand is just going to increase. We are not gonna be the bigger in the sense that we are not gonna pass the hyperscaler like, like a Microsoft. But, again, we believe we will have our place in the market by running more energy and more data centers for AI and HPC. So that's a kind of like vision we have on the market. Who knows where it's gonna be in two years or three years or even five years, we're gonna see. What I think is interesting is that in some ways it's very similar to Bitcoin mining, at least for the hosting part.
The ways that you need to regenerate your GPUs, you have a new fleet, you mean that, you will need more energy with a less efficient fleet. It's a really moving part, and for us to win, and I think most of the Bitcoin miner, not all of them, but most of the Bitcoin miners are going that direction, too. It's really to be on the infrastructure part of the business, right now.
In terms of, you had a slide which articulated the exchange of the ticker symbols that people can access shares in the company. Do you have any sort of like ambition to access other exchanges? I mean, a lot of the North American miners are now on the Nasdaq exchange, and that gives opportunities for a wider audience to participate in buying-
Mm-hmm
... buying the shares. Well, I don't know what you view. I mean, obviously there's a cost incurred in doing that, but I mean, is there a cost-benefit analysis that's something that you've looked at to say-
Mm-hmm
... maybe in the future?
Yeah. Look, the benefit is clear, and then it's not even me saying it. It's other Bitcoin miners who are listed in the Nasdaq on the U.S. Bitfarms, they were listed on TSXV like us. HIVE, they were listed on TSXV like us, and other Bitcoin miners. So of course, we're looking at this opportunity. We can't announce it right now. As you said, there is a cost associated to it, but it's not only a cost. It's finding the right time to do it in this cycle. And I think the market for a small cap like us, even in the U.S., is still open. I believe it will continue being open, mainly for Bitcoin mining, but also for data center in general, AI and HPC.
And it's a great way to have access to more capital. And you can access to more shareholders also, because today on the TSXV, of course, people can buy us in Canada. In the U.S., they need to go with the OTC. Being in a more market, you can raise more and you have bigger valuations. So of course it's something that we are looking at as a possibility. When is it gonna happen? I can't tell you right now.
Thank you, Romain.
Great. Thanks, Anthony. Are we through your list over there as well, Anthony?
Yeah, I think some of the questions were also asked by subscribers. I didn't want to, you know, replicate those again. But, no,
Sure.
Thanks for the presentation and the questions that have been put forward. Really.
That's great. Yeah, we're still getting some good comments in there, Romain. I'll kick it back to you for any closing thoughts. I know we've touched on a lot here in terms of growth, HPC, AI, numbers, the fire. There's been a lot of topics, so I'll let you wrap it up here. We really appreciate the time. Another great stream and solid quarter for SATO Technologies.
Thank you, Bryce. Thank you everyone for being here after almost an hour. Look, it's a great time to do what we do. It's not always easy. That's the life of companies. You have market with a price of a Bitcoin that are through the roof, and the difficulty not too crazy. It's a cyclical market in Bitcoin in general that we've been over many times. And it is a time to go to the next phase of growth, and we are more than energized and excited to be able to do it now. Not only in Canada, we also believe the U.S. is an amazing way to go in terms of energy, to find energy at scale and well-priced.
But there are opportunities. Opportunities for us is to sign electricity deal directly, like we have in our data centers, and all doing acquisition of data centers that are existing actually. And we have ways to go. We know how to go. I'm not saying I know everything, we know everything. Of course, you always learn, and you always have roadblocks, and you need to find a solution. That's what being an entrepreneur is. But at the same time, there's never been a better time to grow data centers like we want to do it. So we're excited.
Yes, most definitely. It's an exciting time in the industry, Romain. You know where to find us next time you guys have a big announcement or a press release. We're here, waiting and listening with ears and eyes open. Thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate the update, you guys. If you're still watching, hit the like button, feel free to subscribe, and if you have any additional questions for Romain and team that we weren't able to address today, leave them...