ただいまより。
From now on, we would like to start the web conference on Ocean Network Express. Thank you very much for attending this web conference, despite your busy schedules. Today I'll be serving as the moderator. I am Sanae Sonoda on behalf of the parent companies of Ocean Network Express. I am from Mitsui O.S.K. Lines , General Manager of Corporate Communication Division.
I'd like to introduce today's presenters.
First and foremost, from Ocean Network Express Holdings, Representative Director Chairman, Mr. Jotaro Tamura.
This is Tamura speaking. Thank you very much for today.
Next.
Representative Director, Vice Chairman, Mr. Keiji Kubo.
This is Kubo here. Thank you very much.
Last but not least, Representative Director, Vice Chairman, Mr. Takuji Banno.
This is Banno speaking. Thank you very much.
Before we start the web conference, I'd like to make one housekeeping announcement. Today, both the moderator and presenters will be speaking in Japanese, and there will be a simultaneous interpreting into English. At the right bottom of the screen, you can choose your preferred language. There is a button. Please select your preferred language. Please do not unmute the original audio. Please do not tick that box. Without further ado, over to you, Mr. Tamura.
One second. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I serve as Chairman, Representative Director of Ocean Network Express Holdings. My name is Tamura. First of all, Ocean Network Express Holdings, I would like to briefly talk about our organization. It's comprised of three shareholders: MOL, K-Line, and NYK, made an investment into ONE Holdings. Currently, I am the Chair of the Board of the organization. Beneath that, as a business corporation, there is Ocean Network, headquartered in Singapore, and CEO is Jeremy Nixon for that company. Ocean Network Express, we will be referring to it as ONE or One hereafter, but we have come up with a mid-term management plan, ONE 2030. The holdings company and the business company go together to formulate this medium-term management plan, ONE 2030. We're taking this opportunity to explain about the plan today.
So for the next 15-20 minutes, according to the presentation material, I would like to explain the content of our plan. If we could please go to the next page.
So here are the contents. This shows what I'm about to present. There are three parts, briefly. First of all, I would like to provide an image of the overall ONE 2030, to provide you with the image. And the two others, number two, are just ONE 2030, its main business strategy. In our business plan that we have formulated this time, what is going to be the gist or the core of the plan? In July last year, the business corporation in Singapore made an announcement. And so what I'm about to explain in number two, it's based on that. And back in July last year, Jeremy Nixon explained it. So our basic plan and strategy, based on that, the holding company and the business go together to decide on the investment and finance the strategy. That's point three.
And so inclusive of that, we are having this plan called ONE 2030. So I will be covering all these three points. So this is the image of the overall ONE 2030. Just briefly, there are three concentric circles. The outer perimeter is in a dotted line. And one, the container shipping business, and container shipping value chain, affiliated business. Well, these are part of our core business that we have been running. And in this plan that we have put together this time, we're going to expand it further to a larger circle. That is one of the main points. And I will explain later, the key phrase for it is sustainable growth. So in order to achieve sustainable growth based on this plan, we're going to grow our business, grow our company.
As we look to achieve the plan, there are three, four elements, which are described on the left-hand side: operational efficiency, economy of scale, and sustainability. These are the three most important key elements in achieving the objective. I would like to elaborate on each of the elements as we go forward. Next, please. The second part is what I said earlier. In July last year, our business corporation explained the idea, and we're providing a summary of that once again. First of all, ONE's current position and for the future, what is going to be, it's thinking. That's being summarized. Where it says key highlights, point number two, as highlighted in the agenda, sustainable growth. From this point forward into the future, as an organization, this is going to be the most important key phrase.
As is described at the bottom of the page, there are six areas, six items listed. We will realize these, and through that, we would like to make long-term contributions to a broader range of stakeholders. Next, please. The three shareholders' businesses were to be consolidated. That was decided back in 2016. The slide plots our history since then up until 2022, looking back between 2016 and 2022, and I think we can include 2023, we can call it phase one. That's how we have defined this phase. What was phase one about? It was a period of integration and establishment. From this point forward, what is it that we're aiming for? That is described in the plan that we have drawn up. It's at the core of our plan going forward.
So regarding phase one, I got phase one, we're going to embark on phase two, which is to achieve sustainable growth. And I would like to provide the specifics of phase two more concretely. So the title includes the word sustainability. In the diagram I showed earlier, there are three most important key elements: operational efficiency, economy of scale, and sustainability. All these three must be multiplied with each other. And through that, we would like to realize sustainable growth in phase two. That's the thinking here. So realizing sustainable growth through three key elements, more specifically in terms of strategy, as described from one through five. So green strategy, digital strategy, talent strategy, finance strategy, and global strategy. These are the five strategic pillars we will be pursuing. So let me explain these. So first on green strategy.
ONE
としても最も重要な達成すべき目標数においてのポイントとして.
This is going to be one of the most important objectives that we must achieve in phase two. We have to respond to the needs of the environment. I think it's obvious. So under the banner of green strategy, we would like to pursue ONE's green mission and green vision as we're going to implement specific initiatives to achieve decarbonization. We have set targets as described here. We're going step by step to achieve this. In terms of environmental compliance, ship recycling, and environmental conservation initiatives are also pursued.
Next, please. In the green strategy, especially what we should emphasize would be decarbonization of our fleet. As of 2030 and at the point of 2050, we are making a comparison. There will be a transition in between.
This page explains that transition, as you can see: at this point in time in 2030, current fleet, and also we have some orders in place already. These ships will be our main ships. These will operate with conventional fuel. Going forward, we'd like to introduce zero-emission capable vessels. In 2050, we will use some carbon offset as well. By doing so, we'd like to realize our target of net-zero emissions. We'd like to push for initiatives to this end. That's our thinking. The next page, please. The second one is digital strategy. In the shipping industry, especially container shipping business, has a high affinity with digitalization. It is a segment. ONE, ever since its launch, has been making all sorts of efforts and initiatives.
Already, to a great extent, all sorts of operations, a great deal of operations, have been digitalized to push up efficiency. At the same time, going forward, we'd like to strengthen and advance such initiatives and efforts even more. Through digital solutions, we'd like to realize competitiveness. This is our basic thinking here. The next page, please. The third point is talent strategy, which is about human resources. ONE currently has about 12,000 employees across the globe. We are leveraging our talents and unlocking the full maximum potential of our talent that would be the source of our competitiveness. To this end, we have initiatives. Ever since our foundation, we have been taking all sorts of initiatives. But as part of our 2030 plan, taking this opportunity, we would like to revise some of our actions.
This page is a summary of such actions. The next page, please. The fourth pillar is finance strategy. As for the details of our finance strategy, in the third part, we will be featuring this point. But one key point would be on the left-hand side, you see solid and diversified funding base in the first box, plus financial stability, which is in the second box. These are our key pillars. Container shipping business is highly volatile as a business of nature. We are engaged in such a business. So solid and diversified funding base is very important. While realizing such a funding base, going forward in terms of our financing activities as well, we would like to deploy diverse measures and actions. As you can see at the very bottom of this slide, it says a long-term ROE target of 10% or more.
We'd like to make these compatible. The next page, please. Last but not least, we have number five, global strategy pillar. So as a global container shipping company, already we enjoy a certain standing. And already we have this, but we'd like to grow this global strategy even more. Our main pillar, which continues to be our main pillar, our container shipping business, we'd like to pursue even better quality in various ways. Especially we have a global network in terms of our service, also our service resources. When sourcing such resources, we should leverage our global standing or network. Okay, the next page, please. So from here on, I said the third part. And this time around, the holding company and a business company put together this investment and finance strategy. So I'd like to cover that area from this point on. Next, please.
So, first and foremost, ONE Profit Plan, from 2024 through 2030, this is positioned as a phase two. We are executing or we've compiled this plan. At the beginning of the plan for the first two years also, this is for the entire industry because there will also be a low profit level for a while. Having said that, what's currently happening, for example, Red Sea situation or other geopolitical factors, we tend to be affected by such developments to a great deal. So at this point in time, it's very difficult for us to come up with a prospects. There is not much visibility against this backward drop, first and foremost, in FY 2024. This is a business as usual based upon our conventional cycles. From the end of April through the beginning of May, 3J financial results will be published.
So when they do so, we would like to talk about a specific outlook in terms of numbers for FY 2024. After that initial period, the overall supply-demand situation will improve in the market. So we believe our profit level will recover as well. And based upon this thinking or our plan, there will be some benefits from our investment. And 2030 will be the final year of the plan. And our profit level prospect will be $3.8 billion. That is the target profit level at FY 2030. Next, please. So next one is ONE investment and financing. First, in our plan, the target period, in this target period, the total amount will be $25 billion in terms of our investment. Or more. That much investment is planned for our main business, container shipping business.
In addition, we will consider maximum $10 billion towards further expansion of container shipping value chain. This is our investment plan and the most important parts of the plan highlights, if you like. As I said earlier in our management plans, an important point would be sustainable growth. 3J, three shareholders in the shipping business. The segment of container shipping is a sort of a segment where growth is expected. It's a growth segment as such. Sustainable growth is what we uphold. As such, based upon this thinking, we came up with this investment program. Under this banner, in this plan, we are upholding the direction of our business expansion, which I just explained. As a result, by the end of the final year of this plan, our scale will be 3 million TEU level. That is our expansion target.
At the same time, we need to finance ourselves for the investment plan we have. So 6:4 would be the ratio we will maintain. We will keep in mind, and ONE will take some borrowings and also will leverage equity. And by combining both, we'd like to cover our investment activities. Next, please. So 3J, three shareholders have an idea about capital management policy. So to compile this plan as ONE, what sort of profit level should be pursued? That was the question. And to reach a certain level, what sort of investment would be necessary? We explored these questions. And as three shareholders, 3J, what will be required of ONE? So as shareholders, need to long-term return target would be ROE 10% or more for ONE. And in accordance with this, as shareholders, we'd like to execute the capital management policy for ONE.
So ONE's equity ratio is exposed to a volatility. But while considering that, we have to have a solid equity ratio for the company. At the same time, once ONE's equity ratio has to be normalized or has to be adjusted. So from 2024 through 2026, for the span of three years, we'd like to make a gradual adjustment. The next page, please. This is the final slide. So shareholders, a dividend direction. As I said earlier, as shareholders, we have a capital allocation policy. And based upon that, what sort of specific actions are being taken? On a gradual basis and through phases, we'd like to normalize or adjust equity ratio. And this is basically a return to three shareholders. And every year, dividend or payout ratio should be 30% of the net profit of a given year.
In addition, as I said earlier, for those three years, at this point in time, $3 billion is the sort of size we keep in mind for a special dividend. In 2024, out of these three years going forward, after necessary resolutions, in June, at least $1 billion of payout is being planned. Then after that, FY 2025 and 2026, we will look at the progress of the investment plan as well as our financing situation. We will be monitoring these indicators and what this is really, the overall progress up to 2030. But while monitoring all these points, we try to make decision or judgment. For these three years, special dividend amount is $3 billion. That is the number we keep in mind at this point in time.
But going forward, depending on the progress, of course, there could be some fluctuation in terms of the special dividend amount. That is quite possible. But to compile this ONE 2030 plan, the holding company, meaning 3J, three shareholders, and business company had had discussions to compile this plan. That's all for my presentation. Thank you very much. I'm looking forward to your questions from the participants and I'd like to respond as much as possible as time permits. Thank you.
At this moment, I would like to move on to the Q&A session. Questions and answers. Those of you with questions, please use the hand-raised button at the bottom of the screen to indicate that you have questions. And we will designate you calling your name. And the name that we will be calling will be the one on your screen.
If you would like to include your corporation name, please change the name on your screen. Otherwise, we'll be calling your name. We will unmute you. Once your name is called, on the lower left, there's a mute button on the screen. Please unmute yourself and start your questions. We would like to take questions at this moment. The first question, Hirokane-san, has asked a question. We will send you the approval to unmute yourself.
Hello, can you hear me?
Yes, we can.
I would like to ask three questions in sequence, one by one. My first question, we need capacity to be set at 3 million TEU. What was the rationale behind that? Why? If you could please explain. Number two, the DE ratio target is 6 to 4. If you could please explain the background to that as well.
Lastly, about shareholder return. $3 billion of special dividend that you'll be returning to the shareholders, the payout ratio of 30% or more. What were the premises or assumptions behind this? If you could please explain that as well.
There were three questions. Let me answer one by one. First of all, your first question regarding the fleet scale. As a member of the alliance, we provide services. And for other ocean routes, we work with various partners individually to provide services. That's what we do currently. And going forward, by FY 2030, if we are to look at the potential competitive landscape and of course, the situation differs from one route to another, but the future outlook for all the routes is put together and looked into various assumptions and expectations. And so it's based on that.
Of course, in terms of the route, we basically intend to continue with our membership and alliance for other routes as one. What we envision as an ideal, well, we have not been able to achieve our ideal route. In other words, we see more potential for growth that we can tap into. And so we have growth expectations for ourselves and given that as well. For each route, how much presence would we like to achieve? We consider that as well. So with all those combined, we have come up with this number at the end of this plan period. And your second question about the DE ratio with respect to funding, as we proceed with our investments overall, our balance sheet will change. And on the other hand, I talked about bringing the numbers to appropriate levels. We will be doing that in parallel.
As we make those adjustments, what should be the best balance? What is the most realistic balance? We've had a number of discussions on that. At this moment, as we look toward FY 2030, we consider this scale of investment. As we try to raise funding for that, we've had to be realistic. As we make adjustments, what should be the most appropriate ratio we discuss? As a result of such discussions, we came up with this ratio of 6 to 4. That's the answer to the second question. Lastly, about special dividend, it was a question about the size of the special dividend payment as I understood it. Well, basically, in each fiscal year, if you could bear with me for a moment, in the past, in a year where profits were particularly good, we paid out more than 30%.
But in principle, 30% or higher. And so with that principle in place, as I said earlier, and based on the outlook up until FY 2030, as we bring our equity ratio to an appropriate level in the first three years.
What should be the size for a basic plan?
We concluded that it should be JPY 3 billion. That's our conclusion. So as we implement our plan, the profit level of each year and progress in funding, and of course, progress in investment, all these are variables. And of course, we have our own assumptions and outlooks for all of them. But there are such variables. And as they become more certain year- after- year.
What should be the timeline under which we should bring the ratio to an appropriate level?
We will be checking on that periodically. It's not a single one-off exercise.
So I said that in FY 2024- FY 2025, we will review it and check. So based on the current outlook that we have, in view of the basic thinking, we came up with this $3 billion number. So those are my answers. Thank you. May I? Please go ahead. So when profit overshoots the plan, well, in the first step, I think it's going to be tough, you said. So payout ratio of 30% as special dividend payout, depending on the accumulation of capital, that could change.
At this moment, your judgment was to have a special dividend of $3 billion. Is that correct?
Let me answer. Basically, based on the long-term outlook, we're going to bring the equity ratio to an appropriate level. That is the objective. So more so than our current outlook, profits may increase more than the plan. And we may have to review the plan.
So it could go higher or either lower than the planned number that we have in mind. So that is how it's defined. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Hirokane-san. From Nomura Securities, we responded to three questions asked by him. Okay, the next question, please. So Himeno-san, I'll send your permit to unmute yourself. So please unmute yourself and ask your question. So please state your name and affiliation before you ask your question once again. Thank you.
Thank you very much. J.P. Morgan. Himeno is my name. I have two questions. My first question is that in the investment plan, from last time, there have been some changes in terms of the monetary amount container JPY 25 billion and then others JPY 10 billion. So in 2022, more than JPY 20 billion was the amount you were talking about. So I believe that you increased the amount of investment.
Is my understanding correct? So what sort of factors went into this change? My second question would be that maybe this is overlapping with my first question. But when you formulated the plan, the alliance reorganization and Red Sea issue and so on have happened, which increased uncertainties. So against this backdrop, in response to these developments, for example, dividend and fleet capacity, investment, and leverage, did you have to review all these KPIs? Or regardless of this reorganization of the alliance, were you able to maintain your KPIs? These are my two questions. Thank you.
Thank you very much for your questions. I believe you answered two questions. So let me answer. To respond to your first question about the size of investment, last time, compared with our previous plan, there's been some increase in terms of investment amount. You're absolutely right. So this time around, we reviewed this.
The factors we considered were twofold. The first one is the tonnage of cargo trends themselves. From our viewpoint, in a way, conservative because of the inflation, lesser price. So shipbuilding market has been quite solid. So I believe our last outlook was somewhat naive. So we reviewed this factor. That is the first point. And as for the second point, this is again about the ships. So green investment, we did factor this into the thinking, but about the trends of alternative fuels, if we bring this forward about the vessel prices for our future orders, perhaps it's better for us to reflect this in our thinking. So ONE, this time around, in this plan, on a regular basis, we'll order our mainstay vessels or ships. So from 3J, currently, we lease ships or vessels. And the lifespan of such vessels up to 2030 needs to be replaced.
To a great deal, we will reach such a phase. So at such a timing, we'd like to replace those ships with our own vessels. So we factored this into our planning more. And in the end, we ended up with a larger amount of investment. This is in the background. That was my response to your first question. To respond to your second question, the current situation and developments have affected our plan this time around, or have they affected our plan this time around at all? Most recently, as you rightly pointed out, there have been two major developments. The first one is the Red Sea situation, attacks against the ships and so on, have happened as a result of some shipping company didn't want to navigate that area anymore. So overall, there is more needs or demand for container ships. So currently, freight rates are rising.
The rates are on the rise. In 2024, FY 2024, this is surely going to affect our performance in that particular year. Considering the timespan up to 2030, in regards to our plan with that time horizons, FY 2024 profit level is incorporated into this overall plan, of course, but we don't believe it's going to affect our overall situation. Also, you asked about the alliance. In January, Hapag-Lloyd decided to withdraw itself from the alliance. The alliance is trying to come up with new services, which will start in February 2025. They are preparing to designed as ONE based upon our fleet capacity. The size of capacity or space we can provide to our customers will remain the same. Because the alliance services will be reorganized, so the variation of the services will change.
So based upon our planning or from the viewpoint of our planning towards 2030 in the mid to long term, of course, we will be providing services based upon the structure of the alliance. So from 2024 through 2025, the impact of reorganization is not at zero. But still, overall, we will be able to provide solid and stable services. And we are certain of it. So in that sense, when formulating ONE 2030, the current reorganization situation of the alliance didn't affect us or bring about a large impact for us. I don't believe that too much consideration was needed for this point. Thank you very much. These are my responses.
Thank you very much. Very clear. Thank you.
Thank you, Tokai Tokyo Intelligence Lab . My name is Kitago. I have one question. In the final year of the plan, $3.8 billion of profit and ROE 10%.
So equity ratio as of 2030 will be $38 billion. Is that assumption correct? And about the equity ratio level right now, if there's any comment that you can make, I'd appreciate it. That's my question. Thank you.
First of all, there's an actual number that's posted on one's website. If you could please refer to that. So in the final year of the plan, the profit levels for 2030, we have planned the number to be $3.8 billion. And what is going to be the size that the balance does shake? We're refraining from announcing specific numbers about that at this moment. But as I said earlier, there are a number of factors that we have to consider about that at one. We are currently leasing vessels, many of our vessels, from the three shareholders. That ratio is quite high.
So we're going to place orders for new ships, new vessels. The vessels we're ordering are going to be larger in size, more environmentally friendly. We're going to make such investments. Such new vessels once built will be posted as assets for ONE. Considering that effect, I think the balance sheet in the future will be larger, relatively speaking, we believe. Over the medium to long term, we want to achieve an ROE of 10% or more. That's our target. In fiscal year 2030, 10% or more of our ROE to be achieved. That is the target that we have in mind. That's my answer. Thank you.
Understood. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. Osaka-sama, good question. Osaka-sama, good question. Please.
Once you're ready to unmute yourself, please state your name and company name once again before you ask your question.
I have three questions. My first question would be for the special dividend for FY 2024, at least $1 billion. That's the plan. And in FY 2023, this is a disposal of the profit of that year. That's $1 billion background. That's my first question. The second one is the capital expenditure, $25 billion for fleet. That is rather than chartered ships. It is more of your own facility or equipment. And how much has been decided for that amount? And $10 billion additional capital expenditure. What sort of a plans do you have for that portion? Could you talk about the contents of it? That's my second question. The third one, as ONE, you have a target equity. Do you have an equity ratio target?
And how much is that? So the parent company is saying 50%. But as ONE, do you have any number in terms of equity ratio target, please? Thank you very much.
So I'd like to respond to these three questions one by one. The first question was about a special dividend in June 2024. $1 billion is the amount. So in FY 2023, there will be profit. And is this a dividend coming from that profit? Actually, it's not the case. In FY 2023, in the first half of the year, there is profit. And then dividend has already been paid out. And then as for the second half of the year, first and foremost, a payment has to be made. And then separately from that, there is an overall capital normalization. We need to make the capital level appropriate. So that's my response to your first question.
The second question is about fleet capacity development. Our own vessels will be included here. On top of our own ships, also chartered ships from 3J would be also included. Both of them will be on ONE's balance sheet. What will be the combination of these two? That is one issue. Depending on the situation at the time, we try to source ships in an optimum manner. The second question was about $10 billion investment and contents of this $10 billion. This is for expanding our business. We need to have an investment of this size. One example would be for our terminal business. ONE, up to this point, has been using the container terminals used by 3J, but also at the same time, Los Angeles and Long Beach, important harbor port. We have been leveraging these as well.
As part of the global strategy, as I mentioned earlier, we'd like to enhance the quality of our offerings. In terms of the terminals, we try to make investment so that we can embed them into our own value chain. This is an important topic for us. We will keep this in mind, bearing this in mind. We are having discussions and making considerations. Finally, your third question. What was your third question? Once again, could you please repeat your third question?
Equity ratio target. What is the target equity ratio for ONE?
Thank you very much for repeating the question. As ONE, container shipping standalone business, we are a specialized player for the container shipping. We are exposed to a high level of volatility.
Container Shipping Value Chain is the sort of area we are looking into so that we can expand our portfolio. The flip side of that is this kind of investment. To address this volatility, to withstand this kind of volatility, we should have an equity ratio. And 3J, three shareholders are also thinking that this is appropriate.
So what is the specific target? What is the percentage point?
I'd like to refrain from making a comment about that. But as three shareholders to ONE, they will be finding themselves going forward. So that leverage would be possible so that they can make a profit, so that they can exercise leverage. This is an important point. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much. In regards to your second response, $25 billion, how much investment has already been decided?
And also as for the $10 billion portion, you will be mainly making investment in terminals and like other companies, non-shipping or forwarder. That sort of business areas are not what you're interested in. Is that so?
And my apology. Sorry, I didn't cover that part of the question. First, out of the $25 billion, what are the actual contents? Well, going forward, we will be making investment in the future. And on top, we call it business expansion. The forwarding aviation. Some people may think that we are talking about such areas. But as ONE, we are not thinking of making inroads into those areas. Thank you.
Thank you very much.
それでは次のご質問承ります。
Please unmute and state your name and affiliation once again before you ask your questions.
Hi. It's Kasede from Citig roup here. Thank you so much for your time. Just two very quick questions. Number one, a shorter term. Would you be able to guide the range of trans-Pacific contracts for this upcoming year? And what will be the percentage of coverage that we can expect? That's number one. And number two, a follow-up question on the change of the Alliance with the departure of Hapag-Lloyd. Should we expect both ONE and Alliance member to be plugging in, let's say, services on Atlantic and North South, for example? How should we think about it? Thank you very much.
はい。ありがとうございます。では2つご質問いただきました。
Oh, thank you very much for the questions. Two questions. And I would like to answer in Japanese to be translated by the interpreters. So your first question, trans-Pacific cargo contract, the trans thereof. I believe that it's a question regarding short-term trans going forward. So trans-Pacific contracts from Asia to North America. Eastbound shipping contracts. The core of it is negotiated in May every year. So that is the industry practice. So therefore, in a normal year, in around March and April, contract renewal will take place between the shipping companies and the providers of the ships. And of course, it will have an impact on the profit and loss outlook of each shipping company. So between the consignors and the consignees. So this year, as you know, the current spot market conditions are such that they are unstable.
That is because of the Red Sea situation and others that I mentioned. The timing of the conclusion of the contracts seems to be pushed down. It's going to be later than usual. At this moment, we're not in a position to say anything certain at this moment, at least. That's going to be my answer. As container shipping companies, if we look at the current situation, the freight that is commensurate with the quality of the service that we provide, we do strongly hope that that is accepted by our customers. Secondly, with respect to the Alliance and its change, as I may be repeating what I said, Hapag-Lloyd's official withdrawal will be February 2025. In FY 2024, the current set of services, according to the agreement, will continue to be provided.
So with the current service menu, the customers need not be worried. And that will be continued up until their official withdrawal. But what's going to happen after that is actually being negotiated and discussed among the members as we speak. And the scope of THE Alliance, Asia, North America, Asia, Europe, and transatlantic routes. So for each route, there could be differing levels of impact as a result of their withdrawal. But we're considering all those factors and the members in order to provide services next year onward. So at an appropriate timing, more specifics will be announced, as I understand it. So those are my answers. Thank you.
Now it is time to conclude. I don't see any more questions. We'd like to conclude this conference call for Ocean Network Express. After you leave the room, there will be a survey on the screen. Please take a moment to respond to that survey. Thank you very much for participating in this meeting despite your busy schedules. Thank you for your continued support. Goodbye.