Good morning, [Minka Przyborowska]. Welcome to the LPP Capital Group meeting. This is the first meeting with you this year, and I believe it's a great opportunity not only to look back into our past, but also to look ahead and explore our prospects for the future. These are the two threads that we would like to focus on today. We will start with summing up the results for 2024. Whilst in the second part, we will take the most important prospect, and we will tell you about the strategy for the development of the group for the years 2025-2027. We will close the meeting with a Q&A session. First, we will start with listening to the questions from the floor, from those who are here with us, and then we will read out the questions that are with us online.
It will be moderated by Magdalena Kopaczewska, Director for Investor Relations. Those of us who are following us using the streaming, would you please use the chat box option to ask your questions? You should be already able to see that on your screens. The technical team confirms the window is active, and it will stay active until the end of the meeting. Please bear with us and stay active throughout the meeting. That is all for the introductory remarks. Today, we have the important moment of presenting the strategy. Together with us, we have the entire management board of the group, which is usually the case on those special occasions. Marek Piechocki and Marcin Piechocki will care about their privacy. Please make sure that you do not register the meeting today and that you take no pictures. Thank you very much in advance for respecting their request.
Ladies and gentlemen, the time has come for us to open. I would like to invite Marek Piechocki, management of the board, and members of the board, Marcin Bójko, Sławomir Łoboda, Marcin Piechocki and Mikołaj Wezdecki. Let us start with summing up the results for 2024. This part of the conference is going to be run for you by Marcin Bójko, the Deputy Chief of Financial Affairs. The floor is yours.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Today we will focus on the strategy for the three years to come, but in order to make sure our obligations are met, we will present the results for 2024. We will focus on the key events. Let us move on. First of all, something that we are particularly proud of is the opening of new stores last year in March in Warsaw. We announced that we would open around 700 new locations. I'm looking at Sławek here because recently he said that, has it been our dream or task? That was the discussion that we had. It proved to be our task, and we delivered 663 openings. We accelerated from quarter to quarter, and in the fourth one, 294 stores were opened. On the last day of January, there were 31.
Just over a single day, we opened up 31 new stores. We are very proud of that. 2024 is the year that we close with nearly 2,850 stores, out of which nearly half or over half belong to the Sinsay brand. As you will see briefly, we bet on this brand. As for the geographical split, the greatest increase has been noted in those regions that we wish to develop: Southern Europe, Poland, but also Eastern Europe. Further to the east, we developed as well. The other topic that was discussed in March last year was us leaving Russia, disinvesting the business previously run in Russia. We promised you that this four-year transitory period would be shortened and reduced to two years. Now we can tell you that this is something that has happened as of the end of January.
Our financial year is from February to January. At the end of January, we saw the last invoices. In this stream of transactions, there are not going to be any new liabilities in this period in the history. This chapter has been closed. We are waiting for the second installment for the stores. The deadline was met, and we are expecting the last tranche in December 2025. As for the figures, this is the annual approach. You can see the clean sales. Without the trade agent stream, looking at the years to come, this is what we want to focus on: nearly 20%. A nice growth. In the first half, Reserved was lagging behind slightly.
If we had had a better half of the year, then we probably would see something closer to this upper part of our guidance that you can see in the middle column. With the 20%+ reported, 19.4% of growth, it's a good result. You can see that we also saw an increase of EBIT to PLN 4 billion. We are developing really fast, but the revenue and the core activity is something that we also know how to deliver. The costs, of course, while we focus on investing, but all in all, we can say that we are really satisfied. It was a good year. It is already the beginning of April. Let us now look at the two months. This is what we see now because in a month's time, we are going to report the first quarter already.
Looking at the information that we've been receiving from the market and in the industry, we do not see any downturn in attitudes because we can see the 23% year-on-year growth in the group's revenues in constant currency. Online sales + 32%. Three percentage points is the correction by constant currencies. Online sales + 32% year-on-year and like-for-like sales + 1.4% year-on-year. I have mentioned that Reserved in the beginning of the year was lagging behind, but now you can see that the brand has done its homework, and it's now plus 18% +. That is briefly this year. Now we are moving on to the main point of our meeting today, that is our strategy.
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to invite the entire board to join us on stage. Ladies and gentlemen, how about this part of our meeting?
First of all, Marek Piechocki is going to tell you about the axis of our strategy for the nearest 36 months, the genesis of it, and where it is about to lead us to within the three years to come. Marcin Piechocki will tell you about the strategy from a slightly different perspective, namely from the point of view of a product, its development, our offer to the customers, but also he will tell us how we will be building our competitive advantage in the market. Marcin Bójko will translate it all into figures. He will show how the strategy will have impacted our operations in terms of key values, but also how it will transfer on to the value generated for our investors. Marek, go ahead.
Good morning. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to this special venue.
In 2001, it was also here that we appeared for the first time at the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Back then, we had a concept of Reserved stores to present to you, and we persuaded into investing in the development of the chain of stores, that it was worthwhile investing in LPP. Those who believed us back then should have no regrets because there is nothing to regret. The price was PLN 40.40. Today, if we calculate the price that we have, maybe it's not very fortunate as of today, but if you combine it with the dividends paid out, those who trusted us back then actually earned 400x . There isn't any other company that is listed that would offer you that. I believe that those who decided to trust us should be satisfied today. This is not the topic of our meeting today.
Rather than that, we would like to show you what LPP is to be like in three years' time, what is going to be the main driver. As you can see, Sinsay is the answer. What are we going to be like in three years' time? We expect that in three years' time, the company will simply be double the size in terms of revenue, in terms of EBITDA, and the number of stores will exceed 7,500. Of course, it appears to be quite challenging. We are aware of that. On the other hand, we are ready to face the challenge. On the one hand side, we know that this development is going to be generated by our traditional stores, that is, Reserved, Cropp, House, Mohito, with the increase between 5 and 10, but Sinsay is going to grow exponentially. Why? Why Sinsay?
Sinsay is an answer in a way to the changing consumer demand post-COVID, particularly in small locations. The customers have realized that it is not necessary for them to commute and travel to big cities, locations, that actually the majority of their shopping can be done in the local mini centers, the so-called retail parks. After the COVID pandemic, another challenge emerged, namely a very important change, a big development of online sales. Quite a bigger portion of what used to be bought in shopping malls in big cities now shifted to the internet. That is change number two. The third important change is a big pressure price inflation for things that happened over the last two, three years. Actually, the consumer has fewer and fewer resources. Those three components actually contribute to the success of Sinsay.
The prices are attractive, the quality is great, and the price is, again, attractive. When you take a look at it, Sinsay is a unique concept in the market. It is not a brand, it's not a value brand, and it's not a fashion brand. Actually, it brings together a number of components or these distribution channels have. It is available in a local market as something that stands out. The customers on the one hand side can save, economize, but on the other hand, they can still afford to buy nice things. That is why we talk about Sinsay design and value, because it's neither value purely nor design purely. We can develop Sinsay in small locations. Therefore, as a big enterprise, we can see a great benefit, namely the scalability potential. We can open up a number of stores, many stores over a short time span.
We expect that in 2027, we will have over 6,000 Sinsay stores opened. When we have a closer look at what this uniqueness of Sinsay relies on, we can see that this is a combination of those two business models. The fashion brand model with the value for money model. When you look at those four features that are typical for those two business models, you'll see that it is only Sinsay that has all the four elements. When you look at fashion brands, they have aesthetic modern shops that have the brand, the fantastic design, but the price is not that affordable, at least not for the dwellers of small locations. Fashion brands also have strong online channels, but they never have such a dense network of stores so as to be really close to the clients, customers. Hennes & Mauritz has 150 stores.
Sinsay has 500, and it will have 1,300. It is really close. Just next door, the same goes for the value for money stores, but actually the other way around, meaning that the price is really affordable, the stores are within reach, but the quality is not something that is taken care of really. Sinsay makes sure to build on those features, those strengths. Look at the last two components. Online and the proximity of stores, those physical stores to the client, they are particularly important in the omnichannel ecosystem. It is particularly strong. When you look at the results that were presented by Marcin a moment ago, surely you must have observed that a number of companies in our industry have 2%, 4%, 6%, 10% of growth in omnichannel. We actually have a very strong omnichannel that is unique, mutually supportive, internally supportive.
Every fourth client, customer that buys something online actually makes sure that they see that in a store. When the stores open up in those small locations of 20,000 dwellers, the clients actually know that the store would open because they've learned about it from the internet, and the word of mouth disseminates the message. 90% of the customers that don't know of the application come to the store, and they are persuaded by our shop assistants that it is worthwhile downloading the application and buying online. Why do the shop assistants persuade them to do so? Because later on, when they purchase online, they are again persuaded that it is worthwhile picking up the order from the store to collect points in the Sinsay Club. All that is very favorable, beneficial to the customer.
We know that every fourth customer that returns to the stores having done shopping online actually purchases something extra also in the very store. This is something that keeps on going, mutually supporting both channels. Those customers that buy in both channels actually purchase five times more than those who buy in just one of the channels. This is a very particular competitive edge of Sinsay. It is a very strong pillar that on the one hand, we have a strong online channel, but on the other hand side, we have a very dense network of stores, and this is what helps us a lot. What is the story of Sinsay? You might remember the previous Sinsay that we started off with in 2013, but the Sinsay of today is the one that was created in 2019.
That's the first store that had full collections of apparel for children, women, and men. Actually, most of the sales come from this model. 2% comes from the previous stores, from the previous shape of the stores. Ever since then, for five years, we have tried different variations, sizes of the stores from 450 sq m to a lot more, 400 sq m and 550 sq m. In the meantime, we also developed non-apparel collections, for example, home, toys, accessories, stationery. Today, Sinsay store sells over 50% of non-apparel items. Owing to that, it happened this kind of store that you go for because it meets most of the purposes, actually. It has a lot of products physically available. When we add the online offer that is even broader, that's just a perfect choice for the customers in small locations.
That is why we say that Sinsay is a great trade in a small location. Maybe some might be ashamed of those small locations, but we are actually very proud that we've managed to offer such a business model there. What is the potential of it? How many small locations have we got in store? Now, looking through the markets that we are at or will mark our presence at soon, there are below 50,000. Let's say 6,518 locations. We are now only present in 944 locations. That means that we could actually open even up to 10,000 stores more. We've done another search. How many stores do the greatest value retailers have in Germany, the Netherlands, Poland? They have between 27,000 and 33,000 inhabitants per store.
If we take all the markets into account and the population of the one that we have, then the number actually is again close to the 10,000 that I've mentioned. This, as the development potential for Sinsay, is something that appears attainable. Where are we going to develop? Central and Eastern Europe. We have a few new countries like Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Georgia, Armenia, Moldova. These are the countries within which we are going to develop. The stores will be open there by the end of the year. Since this potential is really great, there is this sea of opportunities. The question is, is LPP ready for this growth? Today, we have over 1,120 locations insured every week. There are new ones. We have over 180 leasing managers who are responsible for searching for new ones.
We have a high percentage of actually admission of those locations, their acceptance. They are analyzed here in the country, then also region-wise, and we see how they perform. Last year, we increased the storage spaces for Sinsay twofold. Still, another 500 sq m of storage space is to be added. We are building it, and we have also increased the base of our suppliers to over 2,000 suppliers. The last two years have been the time of us getting ready for that. You saw acceleration in the last quarter of the previous year, and this train is speeding up. It's not a dream, as Marcin has mentioned, or a dream of the CEO. It's a well-prepared task that we are pursuing step by step. I'm sure that those 6,000 stores in 2027 of Sinsay, of course, will be there.
What bumps we are going to have to face on the way, we will see. I will show you an example of one of the small countries, Croatia. It is not a big one, 3.9 million inhabitants. When you look at the new concept of Sinsay 2019, two stores were opened another year. The profitability of the stores was 25%. You can see that it is at a similar level between 25%-30%. You can see that today we have 52 stores. We will have 130. That is the potential. What is important is that the application, after 12 months, or 84% of online sales goes through the mobile application. That really allows for a lot of savings of costs of advertisement. The application is not just a source of sales. Today is also the place where you advertise.
In the past, we have spent money, for example, using billboards, wallboards, and so on. Today, we communicate directly with a single customer, sending just a message post, "Hey, we have something new, something beautiful, new collection." This way, we can really save a lot. This is the development of Sinsay in Croatia. Now, I would like to show you a video about our distribution centers, particularly about one in Bydgoszcz. Could you please play the movie? Thank you very much. Just one thing. The movie is really impressive, and this distribution center in Bydgoszcz is really impressive. If we meet in autumn, we will be able to invite you to see this site. What is more important, at least from my perspective, when I was looking at it, robots, machines traveling really, really very fast.
What is more important from this is that January, last year, I believe on the 20th, we were doing a handshake with the owner of the company supplying these yellow taxis, these small robots sorting the products. From January and in May, we had the first test robots. Now the entire warehouse is full and is generating significant savings. Thank you very much. Now, Marcin Piechocki, the floor is yours.
Yes, these yellow robots are really impressive. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am very happy that I will be able to talk to you about Sinsay a bit more. What is the origin, what is our DNA, and what are the plans for the future? After years in bank and in trade, I received a task to manage the youngest brand, Sinsay.
Together with our team, we decided where to go because we knew that the story of two Sinsay teenage girls is already behind us. What's next? We went with our team to Barcelona to get inspired from our Spanish, the largest competitor. They have this concept in the value brand. We had two conclusions from this trip. The accessories, garment and non-garment, that was the key, and become open to the region. My dad did not want to agree on that. Kids and home products, so it's a bit different than our standard products. We opened our store in Kościerzyna in 2019. The rest is history. We have 1,500 stores. We are responsible for half of the income of the company because we are profitable. What is the concept behind Sinsay?
We can talk a lot about this brand, but I would like to mention four aspects: the rising purchase power. This is a fact in our country. The potential GDP is much, much higher than in Western countries, than a small number of stores in the country. We offer a product with unforgettable design. Clients appreciate our value for money, and we have the highest NPS indicators in the sector. We offer the highest quality on the market. Our clients are usually families from smaller towns with limited budget, sensitive to the price. The price is here a key factor for the decision-making process. Why should they pick us, not the competition, with a fashion heritage and very attractive in terms of a price? We are taking care of, and this is what I'm emphasizing here, the retail sector. No one can compete with our prices.
When we add our design and experience into it, a choice for the customer is simple. We need to ask a question: what's the secret of Sinsay? I will share that with you. It's no secret. It's a branded product. Branded products in this very sensitive sector. We are very proud of this quality, production safety, the efficient supply chain, and ecological responsibilities from the EU and from us. This is the widest range of products for the local community. We are the largest store. We have 11,000 different products designed by our in-house designers. They are refreshed with our fashion heritage, and they are directed to families. Non-garment, these are 50 scales and SKU. We are focused on non-discretionary products, so first-aid products, like a jacket, shoes, or underwear. Our store is very modern.
It's nice to shop in there in an innovative, clean, bright, efficient space when visual merchandising is crucial. In the automobile industry, a model of a car is changed every 7 years-8 years. In a retail store, every 4 or 5, we change the concept every year. The concept of Sinsay is always fresh, nice, unique, and this is what our clients appreciate. Online, in the segment of value, it's not a standard. We have over 130 products. Our clients appreciate our Sinsay Club loyalty program, so we can target our communication directly supported by AI. We need to see that in our over 500 stores in Poland. This is the traditional trade with our competition, and this is what we are. A picture is more than words. As Dino revolutionized food sectors, Żabka did that for larger stores. InPost revolutionized postal services.
We are doing this revolution in the non-food sector. We are introducing a new quality of service in small towns. We have usually 700 sq m in our stores, so it is a modern store with the widest offer in small towns. Sinsay in the garment sector offers design and look for half of the price of our competition. Sinsay, this is not only apparel, non-garment. This is what I encourage you to verify. You can have products for your home, for the living room, but also toys and stationery for children. Here, I would like to mention a distinguishing element. Our app, e-commerce in this sector is not that obvious, and the app is a different level. In LPP, when we are doing something or implementing something, we are doing it 100%. It was the same with our app.
Here we have the largest download rate in this quarter, and 82% of sales is done through the app. This is an outstanding result. Now let's move on to small towns to see how big for the local community is the opening of Sinsay stores. Let's see a movie. Ladies and gentlemen, we help local communities to live better by saving in Sinsay stores. Thank you very much. Okay, we have seen the stores. We have seen the offer. Now some of the numbers following this model. We are going to begin with Sinsay as a key element for our strategy for the future. The store sales maturity, 95% of the target sale. This is a very good result. Sales is not everything. The concept of Sinsay was designed to be optimal in terms of cost.
We can see with EBITDA in the second quarter after the opening, this is a significant plus, close to the level generated by very mature stores. From both sides, we can see this concept for months and years, and it is maturing really great. We can see the results in this middle and right slide. Using our design language, whether this is L, so 1,600 or smaller, S or XS, or if Sinsay is open in a large 500 million city or in a smaller town, the profitability is over 30%. We can see this concept is really universal, optimal for all, and fits every size and every location. This is not a coincidence. It did not just happen. We've worked on that, and a significant process followed that was based on three pillars.
When we were designing a new Sinsay concept, it was designed as a modern, clean store, but CapEx should follow OpEx, so low cost in terms of construction. This PLN 400 from 1 sq m , this is 50% of what is done on the market. Building such a store in a large city in a different concept is twice as expensive capital-wise. When we had this element, we asked ourselves where to put it. What criteria are crucial? These investment criteria that we focused on, the KPIs, the return, the payback period, and the EBITDA. If we focus on that, we prepare such an analysis for every location. This is 100+ . We focus on the quality of our forecast. We support our activities with AI, with the potential.
At the end of the day, there is a human, of course, decision, but the quality and forecasts that are doable is really important. When we take a decision and build such a store, then we have the tight financial control of our performance. Here we have a broad team. We have here Marek, myself, the Controlling Director, business representatives, leasing managers. We are watching location, store, country leasing managers. We have 140 of them at this point. We can see the performance, whether we need some correction. We can detect that very, very quickly. If something is good, then we pass the knowledge to these locations so that good ideas can be used. If we need some additional corrective activities, then we react very quickly. If we add this together, then the payback period is usually 15 months.
In best locations or best regions, Poland, Southern Europe, Eastern Europe, up to 12 months, around a year. This invested money returns very quickly. We are very proud of it. As Marek said, we look at it from a different perspective, looking at the market potential. At the entire process, we focus on the quality. If this is delivered, then yes, it is. If we go back and look at the entire network of Sinsay, profitability 33% in terms of average EBITDA, 99% of all stationery stores is profitable. With positive EBITDA, it is a magnificent result. We also added here profitability of other markets for 2024. We can see that it is very good, our mature brands and Reserved, Cropp, House, and Mohito and Sinsay. These are these heritage brands in this English presentation. We can see that the profitability is comparable.
Today's meeting is about Sinsay, but we do not forget about our heritage brands because they are important. They are the source of resources, know-how, experience for us. This is one thing. They develop 5%, 7%. This is a very good rate as for heritage brands. These could be independent companies. When we look at the income, the revenues, we are not opening these stores as quickly as Sinsay stores. They generate resources, financial resources that are now put into Sinsay stores with high-quality CapEx. Robotic solutions in the fourth quarter and in the future, it should generate significant savings regarding OpEx as for the logistics operation. 25%, this is the potential we target. When we are going to combine these two elements, our heritage brands and Sinsay, we can see a very good drive that will make it possible to upscale our activities.
Like-for-like, this is one area. We do not forget about the quality of our apparel. This is in our DNA. The largest growth, new countries, new locations, around 4,000 new stores, mainly Sinsay stores, e-commerce. This is the area where we can see significant potential for growth in 2024. That was PLN 5.4 billion, but we can see the market will grow naturally. We are very happy about it, but we have three leverages that will make it possible for us to develop in this channel rather quickly. New countries, we enter new countries. This is a greenfield and significant potential. A wider offer, we could see that from margin 50%. This is non-garment. We will develop this part and Sinsay Club and app rollout. These are the leverages that provide this significant growth + 30%.
This is what we want to achieve in the future, also in e-commerce to increase twice. PLN 10 billion+ . We want to grow. We are going to grow, but we need to be profitable in our activities, and we can't forget OpEx. In recent years, we have proven that we can control our costs, and it will happen also in the future. We have additional leverage as for the logistics costs. I'm not going to reiterate about it. This 25% potential, this should stay with us. The other area in e-commerce, these are marketing expenses, so performance marketing. Three, four years ago, we spent 17%, 16%, and we couldn't see this profitability for the last two, three years. Here we managed, we learned how to do it, how to spend the money, when and where, when to stop, where to add.
When we are looking at the future, we can see how to do it. We are growing with e-commerce with similar spending. The last point, in our DNA, we have this growth and quick action, but also controlling the costs. These areas with significant costs also focus on taking care of these costs. This is one of the points in our strategy. If we add together double growth and cost-based discipline, we can see that we grew twice, and also in terms of EBITDA, we are taking care of the quality of our growth. We want to achieve 1,500 stores, but we want to do it in a profitable way to maintain the quality. The EBITDA is great, revenue is great. Now the cash flow, CapEx is going to be increased.
In 2026, 2027, CapEx is going to be decreased, EBITDA is going to grow, it will change. This cash flow will increase as well with stable financial situation. This conservative managing with our debt stays with us. Net debt to EBITDA for three years, this is really very safe level, 1.4. If the standard is two and a half, still there is a room for us. This is what we want to maintain. With these positive cash flows, we would like to share with our investors. We are not closed to any options. We are observing the market. Organic growth, this is our plan and dividend payout. We increase the value as for dividend payout. Right now we have PLN 660 per dividend, per one dividend. We do not want to change anything. We have a clear policy as for dividends.
We want to continue that policy. That is a very positive information, financially speaking. I pass the floor to Marek for final conclusions.
Thank you very much. Listen, ladies and gentlemen, actually what I care for you to take away. Even the bottom line tells you about the double growth of the company, but there is one major thing I would like you to remember, namely that LPP now has a unique business concept, not yet another apparel brand, but it has a concept that reaches small towns and that creates a completely new value and quality of life for the inhabitants. That is really most important because that gives us a unique chance of scaling up. Never before have we hit such a brand.
When we came with Sinsay with 16 stores to the stock exchange, everybody thought we might open another 100 perhaps, but we opened so many more. It is important that you remember that the potential of scaling up Sinsay in those small locations, there are 10 times as many of them as those big cities. That gives us a unique chance that we cannot allow to waste. You investors, the only thing I would like to ask you to do is to think about that and decide to agree with us that it is really unique and highly scalable. As a result, what it gives us is an opportunity to double not just our sales and revenue, but also the development of the company. Maybe we will see what is displayed on the right-hand side of the chart. Thank you very much.
Ladies and gentlemen, loads of numbers and data, but is it something that is exhaustive from the point of view? Let's verify that within the Q&A session that I invite you to join me in now. As mentioned, we will start with questions from the floor. If you wish to ask a question, please raise your hand and wait for someone from our team to approach you with the microphone. We care very much for your questions to be audible, not only here in the room, but also for those of us who have joined us within an online transmission. We will move on to the questions that I already know have appeared in the online channel in the chat box. I encourage you to stay active, and we are expecting now the first question to come. Sylwia Jaśkiewicz BOŚ, welcome.
I have a few questions.
First of all, it's about the cost level because the costs are rather high in the fourth quarter. The question is, what part of the costs are those related with the future development? Because I understand that the development planned by the company is to cost, and when will the logistics be working in an optimum way?
Across the entire year, I can't remember fourth quarter itself. I took an annual approach. It was about PLN 160 million of one-off costs related to development, but logistics, as mentioned, it was more about fourth quarter. Bydgoszcz operationally is 20%-25%. There are still tests going on there. We have been benefiting more and more, but there is this acceleration. The first results are to be expected in the second half of the year.
Next question, please. Here at the front, please.
[Marek Bartosz], XYZ, two issues that I'd like to inquire about. The presentation has made it clear that Reserved actually opened up a few stores but closed a few. The floor space grew, but until recently, that has been a flagship brand. The potential of it seems to have been exhausted. If so, was it the saturation of the market, increasing competitors that do not enter other segments but focus on the core segment? The second question, I'm not sure whether you should ask two in a row or whichever way you wish. The second one, the CCC Group says that the inhabitants of small towns wish to have shoes and garments of the biggest brands, but you say that they prefer to have simply those at affordable prices, not necessarily it's about brands. Could you respond to that?
I will take the Reserved question. It is not the case that the Reserved concept has come to an end. We simply developed something that develops more dynamically, gives us new development opportunities. It's something new. When you look at Apple, when it had iPads, they constituted 25% of the Apple sales. Now they went down to 12%. They still, of course, operate and sell products. Reserved and other brands are going to keep on developing. They have their challenges, obviously. When we take one of the smallest brands of ours, it is bigger than the VRNG group. It could be listed, and we could actually appoint a CEO there.
It is not the case that the heritage brand ceased to develop, but we simply discovered something completely new, something that has a unique potential, and something that does not compete against that segment, something that does not appear in big cities. Reserved is to be found in the stores in the cities over 50,000 inhabitants. In terms of brands and branded products, if you ask me personally, I believe that there is no contradiction here. Actually, those two trends or demands go hand in hand. The inhabitants of smaller locations or those price-sensitive online purchases need to respond to that on their own. The question is how low you can go with the price of branded products, licensed products, because this is yet another category.
As you've mentioned, we also take a close eye on competitors, and we see how low you can go down with brands such as G-Star. I'm doubtful. I believe actually that there is no contradiction, but there is enough place for one and the other. I believe that the inhabitants of small locations will simply benefit because they are offered a greater choice.
Next question, please. Santander Tomasz Sokołowski, good afternoon.
How about your flexibility in terms of correcting your plans if there is a global macro downturn or, less probably, if your assumptions differ from what you present? Do you need to, is there place for corrections to your assumptions, to your goals? In the case of Sinsay, the process is a half-a-year one, which means that the process starts with a decision-making.
From the decision-making to the opening of a store, we have six months. As Marcin has mentioned, when we see that a given market starts to behave differently than we would like it to, we can stop the process, and in a few months, we simply decide not to open any more stores there. Within less than six months, we can slow down and put the machine to the halt. We have, again, six months to react. If it turns out that, well, actually, the people in the small locations need to and are forced to buy certain items. It's not just about clothes. These are also some other goods that they need. We want to offer them what they really need and what falls out of the food category.
Even if we have an economic downturn, such an element, for example, we say now that consumers have started to save, that they have fewer resources, this is something that we can actually build on because the prices that Sinsay offers are the prices that are competitive compared to Chinese internet platforms. With full awareness, we can say, yes, we can enter the price competition with those Chinese platforms. On the other hand, we know that these prices are comparable to other value brands where the stores look far less attractive, where the products are non-aesthetic, where the products are low quality, not tested, simply that somebody buys whatever they find without testing it. You saw the films, you saw the images, the pictures. The branded product that we offer at this price, as Marcin has mentioned, is the most attractive offer.
We know that it is a perfect product for precisely this time where already the customer started saving, competing against pure online players. We believe that our product, so when the customer sees a picture in the internet on a Chinese platform, very often this image is like eight or nine out of ten, but what they get is two out of ten. What we offer is not two out of ten in the internet because e-commerce colleagues would be offended. It looks great in the internet, but what comes is at least eight out of ten. I mentioned NPS. Really, our customers, male and female customers, are very happy about the products that we deliver. Maybe I'll just add the last thing, just reading between the lines in the question, whether we are going to chase 1,500 and then forget about profitability.
Maybe it's too early to say at this stage, but whether it is 1,350 with good profitability, will it be a success? Yes. Now we have a huge potential. We'll be observing the situation closely, but certainly the trade-off on the way is something that we take into account. What matters is profit. We are fully aware of the fact that we need to keep on developing profitably. There is no option for us to sacrifice profitability. There might be some temporary costs. Like last year, we had those costs of logistics that were single-time costs. When you double the floor space for Sinsay, when you buy so many robots, you cannot depreciate it so hard. There is this kick-off period and so on, some other elements. Taking care for profit and dividend payout, this is what is of paramount importance for us. This is key.
That is why we carefully observe the locations to be open. If they are to be poor in terms of profitability, we will not open. For the time being, we have all promising observations. Of course, some locations might be mishits. When we opened nearly 700 stores last year, it is not that all of them are perfect hits, but the percentage of those mishits has not changed for years now. It is still the same. Those locations, we close gradually when the contracts expire. Thinking about Sinsay, and we talk about those small Sinsay stores, we closed nearly 200, 180 something of small Sinsay stores. You will not see that in your numbers, but today we have 98% of revenue from the new version of Sinsay. This is because out of 240 that we had in 2019, we have only 70 left.
70 small Sinsay, the first version Sinsay that you saw in the past.
Next questions, please.
Good afternoon. Thank you for the presentation, [Insignies]. My question is, for a few years now, we've been meeting, and you've been claiming that we should expect the erosion of gross margin owing to the increase of sales through Sinsay stores. Over the last three, four years, we have 50% of sales from Sinsay stores, and profitability is not subject to this pressure. Now the gross profitability is at 55%, but in your strategy, you would like to reach 51%-52%. It seems to me that no short-term or long-term factors show that we should reach this level. On a short one, we have low PLN, low freight taxes, and we have low rates resulting from customs wars.
Now, in Sinsay, you sell more and more non-government categories that should also increase profitability. Looking at the operational data, a bit and so on, you see that profitability at Sinsay is high. Where does this assumption come from concerning 2027?
I've heard the word sandbagging some time ago. Of course, our strategy is well thought over. If we showed you what we rely on when we plan our margin, of course, different factors can happen on the way. We are conservative. Of course, gross margin is to drop because Sinsay's share is growing. When you look at the last years, Sinsay had its issues because first we redirected to the eastern markets, then we had to redirect it to southern ones, and the margin was very low, then it slightly improved. It happened when you look at the figures.
This share is going to dilute, but in our forecasts, we are really conservative. We do not expect that all the increases of costs will be reflected in the margin. Whether there is potential there, yes, but we are going to have to explain what we achieve. In the meantime, we published the strategy on the internet. We give guidance for 2025 and for the years. The guidance for 2025 was what we gave in December. The gross margin, there was a lot of uncertainty after the elections. It was conservative. Now we can see that nothing wrong is going on. We do have a bit more of sales, but we increased it by 1%. We are going to communicate it as we go.
Next question, please. No questions. Okay, understand. Let us move on to the questions that were posed online.
The first question concerns the payback of the fraction liabilities. Can you tell us by when is it going to be covered? Is it going to be by mid or by end of 2025?
The schedule for the main part of the business is December this year, and another tranche is December 2026 following that investment contract.
Another question is about Sinsay stores. Why do you have a lower rate of Sinsay stores than in 2024? Because you announced 600 new stores, and this is what you announced in September by the end of the year. How should we believe that you can open a greater number given that you did not deliver what you promised?
We are trying in terms of the opening figures to open when we see the potential. We do not want to deliver anything pressurized to do that, pushing that.
When leasing managers find something that is worthwhile considering, we open. I would not like to open anything just to deliver the plans. In 2024, we have over 600 openings. Altogether, we have over 700 stores open. I believe it is better to open quality stores rather than to open just to meet the numbers that we hoped for. You have mentioned the margin. For us, for you, I believe as well, what is most important in the end is the profit because this is what you are going to expect from us. That is at least the way I imagine it to be. We can talk about a number of parameters that are of key importance, like the pace of development and of the increase in sales. In the end, what matters is profit. In the end, it is the profit that matters.
Whether it is by 55% of margin or 54%, maybe within this margin, we are more conservative. When it turns out that it's good, it's not that we are going to forget about it. We will not hide it. We, of course, share it with our shareholders.
The next question concerns the macroeconomic situation. In what way does the situation with customs introduced by President Trump affect the company? What kind of risks are we talking about?
Yeah, we talked about it in the morning, what we would answer when this question is asked because we expected it. Honestly, we do not trade with the U.S. We do not buy. We do not sell.
In relation to the U.S., we can even say that the situation works to our favor because actually the companies from Asia are going to be under greater pressure to sell cheaper to the European companies or to us. That is going to be beneficial. They will have to reduce the prices. You can see what happened to the dollar. I mean, we can say that all things that have happened are actually positive as far as we are concerned.
Next question. You write that you've been implementing innovative automatic solutions in your distribution centers. At the beginning of 2025, you closed the first stage of introducing robotic solutions to your biggest DC. Can you give us a greater number of detail and the expected savings in this respect?
We did talk about savings. They're going to reach 20%.
I believe that in actual fact, the greatest number of detail is to be seen in autumn when you go to this 1,400 robots. In some areas, we save even up to 60% with respect to some of the processes. You need to bear in mind that when we save in a certain element, component, we do that in order to actually invest more in a different area, to invest, for example, in different countries or to reach more clients. We cannot really expect that we will save everywhere because in parallel to that, we need to safeguard the future. If we in this DC in Bydgoszcz save 20% thanks to robotic solutions automation, but on the other hand, we build 500 sq m in Brześć, this is something that actually absorbs the resources.
We cannot see that as a saving that is there that we're going to write off and have smaller profit. We simply work parallelly across different areas. Savings from one area are reinvested in another. Maybe just one word of a comment. It's not about saving only. The new logistics model is also about time. Owing to the new technology, we've reduced the period of construction and equipping from three years to a single year. With this investment plan that we have, and we were able to reduce this process of building of the logistics centers from three years to a single year, that means that we are ready to implement our investment plans.
Thank you. Another question concerns the development plan of Sinsay for 2025. Will you expect 1,500 openings? We are past Q1. What is the dynamics of the implementation of that plan?
Is it to schedule or do you expect any seasonality per quarter?
Yes, there is seasonality per quarter. We have assumed that and we can see that. In the first half, I expect around 500 stores will be opened. In the other half, around 1,000. This is what it looks like. Even when you look back to how we opened stores in this year, you can see that in the first quarter, it was 100 something. It was last year in the second quarter, some 100+ . We had a lot more in the last quarter. It is the case that the last quarter is the strongest and the second half of the year is stronger than the first one. Also historically, 286 Sinsay stores in Q4, 120 in Q3. Altogether, it is 400 out of 600 of the total number of stores open.
To summarize the structure envisaged for 2025, does LPP wish to expand the portfolio of the brands? Do you expect to add any premium brand? In fact, we have a lot to do. If we wanted to do anything else on top, that would be simply a managerial error. That would be irrational and unreasonable. We can see that all the segments of LPP get engaged into a strong development of LPP. We have a fantastic support of managers from other departments in terms of developing Sinsay. We've got logistics that we can say is working full-time. We've got investment and construction departments, and doing something extra would not be reasonable from the point of view of management, as it would disturb our journey towards the main objective.
Another question is about brands again. Could you tell us a bit more about the other brands?
How about the management of other brands versus Sinsay? Are they neglected? Or in the context of the chances offered by Sinsay, maybe the other brands do not matter in terms of guidance for next year so much or for next years.
They are certainly not being neglected. All the brands need to be profitable and development-oriented. The directors that run them, run them as if these were separate entities with separate P&Ls. They take care of developing these brands and increasing the profits. Our smallest brands is like one of the bigger listed garment companies, and we treat them the same way. This question could be asked to Apple. Are they going to abandon iPads? Probably not, right? They constitute just 10% of their revenue. They're going to keep on developing them, maintaining them. They have their customers. Same as the case of LPP.
We have our brands that constitute value, not just from the point of view of finance, because you are here mostly thinking about this financial aspect, but they constitute also an additional value to LPP. When you think about the birth of Sinsay, it wouldn't have been created had it not been for the support of heritage brands, financial support had it not been for the support, as Marcin has mentioned, with the expertise and culture that those brands can offer. We have a development director at Sinsay that comes from Cropp, an IT guy that came from Reserved and Cropp before. That was commerce. We have allocation head and distribution head, a girl that comes from Reserved. It is not because now these brands are being neglected. No. Out of the 50 directors in LPP, the average seniority, so experience of working for LPP is 14 years.
These people have been with us for 14 years, keep on developing. These are experienced commerce specialists and managers, and they, owing to that, have their own development opportunities. Those that were deputy directors were promoted and turned into directors, or they moved across brands. We also have movement the other way around. That was a product manager at Sinsay has turned into a product director at Cropp. Owing to having around 1,000 people who are responsible for a product, we still have the resources that can be mutually supportive. You cannot be looking at our brands, Reserved, the heritage brands, as something that I don't know we wish to get rid of and say farewell to, or them not being important because they bring an additional value, not just financial value.
Is every location verified by you personally in every place? Yes, it is.
You're talking about entering new countries as a certain potential for faster growth of e-commerce. What countries do you have on your mind? You're talking about entering new countries as a certain potential for faster e-commerce growth. What kind of countries are you considering?
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, once again. This year, we are planning to open two countries for e-commerce: Kosovo, Albania. In the prospect of those three years, altogether, the markets that we are going to add are going to be five in number. That is more or less the answer to your question. What I believe is important is that in this e-commerce strategy, we will keep on increasing the market that we address, the target market. It is 300 million people now, but we expect that in this prospect of three years, it's going to be up to 350, 360 million people.
That will make it possible for us to implement the ambitious plans of e-commerce growth.
What is the standard rental length in the newly opened Sinsay stores?
Five years. Usually, we conclude contracts for five years because this is our biggest commitment, or it's the hardest one should an error occur. The verification process is a multifaceted one. On the one hand side, these are local leasing managers that are supported by applications, AI applications that analyze similar stores that we have in a given location, the population of certain cities, unemployment rate, average remuneration rate, and so on. The applications show the potential locations. They make a decision. The first committee verifies that in the country. On the regional level, again, there is a verification together.
We sit together and go through all the location every quarter because after eight weeks, we know how it is going to be performing across the entire year. We revise particularly those that do not perform, that underperform countries or locations. We try to understand why. Those that perform well, we say, okay, we'll accelerate a bit there. This is actually the heaviest error that can drag on. If these are errors concerning delivery dates or collections and so on, as I mentioned, we have those six months to react. We try to also learn from competitors' mistakes. Let me answer this way. We are simply rather cautious in terms of the contracts that we conclude.
Oftentimes, a question is asked, if you want to lease, if you want to open 1,500 stores, don't you open them on, let's say, both sides of the same street? If we do so, it is a result of a well-thought-over strategy. We have examples where we opened up on the one side of the street in a retail park because there was no space opposite. The place is available again. We open up because otherwise we would have to withhold the entire process. We don't want to waste time. Let's do commerce here and now and then try to actively look for another location, even if this location is really in a very close proximity.
The last question, when the war in Ukraine comes to an end, are you planning to return to the Russian market?
No, ladies and gentlemen, I think that for two reasons, right? Perhaps European West and European companies could return to the Russian market, although I do not really see such prospects today. This is a very distant strategy. We have too many once beaten, twice shy. We have too much of negative experience to even try to consider that. No, we have a beautiful market of 300 million clients.
Do not you think that we have enough to do?
That is really enough.
I can see another one at the back. Unfortunately, the question is not audible in the interpreter's booth. Last question. Could you share the vision concerning what is going to happen after 2027? Have you already considered that? What is most important for us is to show you the prospect for the three years to come.
As we have shown, the potential of Sinsay is not just 6,000.
The potential is 10,000. There is still a lot to be done after 2027. Whether in the meantime something else pops up, whether new ideas will emerge, or we, at least internally, the company, we have not expected that we would have such an outstanding concept of a store, so different from everything else. In the past, when somebody said, maybe we will add men's clothes or kids' clothes, I was the first person to say, like, I'd rather die. When I see what they trade in today, that you will find all sorts of household items, then I thought, wow, I would have never thought that we would be trading in that. I do not know, caps, mugs, and all that, because we have been a garment-focused company. What else does the future hold? Who knows?
Right then, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for all the questions.
Those of you who are with us today, just a brief announcement. We are still going to have time to ask our managers the question, or the board members will be here for another 20 minutes. If you have no further questions, we would like to invite you to the foyer floor underneath. We are going to serve lunch there. Also, our board members will be there. Thank you very much for accepting our invitation, for your presence, for the questions. Since in a few days, weeks, we are going to have Easter, let us wish you a healthy, sunny, happy Easter. Thank you for today and see you at next conferences. Thank you.