Ladies and gentlemen, it's 9:30, so we can start. A very warm welcome at the press conference, summing up financial and operating results of PGE for 2024. We have Dariusz Marzec, CEO, Przemysław Jastrzębski, Vice President for Finance, Piotr Sudoł, Director of Financial Division, and I, Konrad Mróz, will have the pleasure of facilitating this meeting. Traditionally, we will start with a presentation, after which we will have a Q&A session. Over to the CEO now.
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It is an important conference.
We are going to show you the results for last year, but I would like to start with a thought that it was not a typical year in the operations of PGE Polska Grupa Energetyczna, not a typical year in the operations of such a large enterprise, and one of the key companies responsible for energy supplies to citizens of Poland and to the Polish economy as a whole. As you know, it was a year of major changes both in the company and in our country. There was a lot of organic work done in the company. On 18 March last year, I had the pleasure of taking up this position. We first focused on organic work within the company, on matters which needed to be addressed first of all, things which we had to sort out both administratively and in terms of personnel.
These were the efforts which took a lot of our time. You can't hear me well? Okay, I will sit closer to the microphone then. Should I repeat everything from the beginning?
As I have said it was not a typical year, not a typical time when you have 12 months of regular work within an integrated team that simply responds to strategic challenges. It was the year of arranging the company as such. This was the first year of the management board. It was a time when we had to manage a number of crises. The first of these, and the one which received the greatest publicity, were the problems with environmental decisions regarding Turów mine. I went there soon after being appointed to the position. I talked to the people working there, and I talked to the environment, the community interested in the developments around this decision. There were offshore wind farm-related issues and putting the whole project on the right track, catching up with some of the delays that had accumulated previously.
The first months of our work here and of last year were very intense, not necessarily those in those areas in which we would be most interested in focusing on, namely reorganizing the company. As you can see, all of those topics were put on the right track, or they are being addressed in a manner which we can describe as satisfactory. I mention this just to highlight that this was not a traditional, typical year from a managerial perspective. It was a year which was slightly shorter than 12 months, if seen from this perspective. At the beginning, we focused on the development of the company.
We focused on making sure that our company is ready for energy transformation, on making sure that it is ready to play a role it should play in the Polish ecosystem of energy supplies as a stable provider of electrical energy at predictable prices which stimulate economic growth without causing any energy exclusion among Polish citizens. Such technological changes that prepare the company for those changes had to be addressed. We also focused on building new segments, which we will give you some more details on. We managed, in spite of declining revenues, to improve the profitability of the company.
We have recurring EBITDA at almost PLN 11 million, which I consider to be a great success in spite of declining revenues due mainly to decreasing volumes in conventional energy and declining prices in conventional energy, which is good for the economy, but which causes a decrease in revenues for PGE Polska Grupa Energetyczna. We managed, nevertheless, to improve even operating results. This was the year when we.
We finalized and operationally put into action the investment projects, and I will also give you some more details on these. In the gas sector, for example, we launched Nova Dolna Odra, and in another location, we decided to build another unit in one of the key segments. A lot happened in 2024, and a lot happened in those directions which are particularly relevant to our development in terms of creating new directions of development for the company and new segments of operations. Mainly thanks to the decrease in emission rights, we managed to decrease economic debt by over PLN 4 billion, and we had the first year of operations of a new segment, operational functioning and contribution to revenues of a new segment of our operations that is gas energy, that is no longer CAPEX, that is already now a contribution to operating results of the company.
Talking of gas, gas-based energy, in my personal opinion and in the opinion of my colleagues from the management board, the gas segment is going to be one of the key sectors of development of PGE Polska Grupa Energetyczna, and that is for a number of reasons. It is low emissions, it is very flexible, which is of great significance in the context of electricity generation in Poland because we need capacity that anytime can fill the gap resulting from renewable energy sources functioning. As one of our ministers pointed out, we are going away from a situation where we consume energy at the time when it is generated. There is the growing gap between the moment of energy generation and its consumption. This type of energy fits the current needs very well because it stabilizes the supply of electricity when the generation from renewable sources goes down.
For example, if weather conditions lead to low generation from renewable sources, we can use gas to stabilize the supplies. On one hand, we want to reduce emissions and the costs related to buying emission rights, and on the other hand, we want to supply enough electricity thanks to having capacity which can be adjusted to the operations of renewable sources. A new plant like this, Gryfino Dolna Odra, was put into operation last year, 100,630 MW capacity, PLN 4 billion in CAPEX. We give a new lease of life to this location in the energy sector because we replace coal units. Those 50-year-old coal-powered units are now being replaced with gas-powered units. We also plan to develop storage operations there, and that is a project which contributes to the operating results of the company. That is a very good asset, responding flexibly to the operator's needs.
I also had the pleasure of being present at planting the gas turbine, more than 800 megawatts, one of the largest in Poland. That is PGE Nowy Rybnik. This model of transformation of our generation units, whereby we replace old and obsolete coal-powered units, are being replaced with gas and steam. This investment is already advanced in over 60%, and we expect it to be ready for operations by 2026 and to actually start operations by then. We also asked for new decisions for connections in Ostrów Wielkopolski for the total capacity of over 1,300 megawatts, and we asked for connection decisions for new units in Gryfino and Rybnik. I do not want to give you any spoilers of our strategy because you will hear much more information in our strategy that we want to announce in June.
As of now, we are presenting those details for which we already have applied for decisions and where we want to operate in the existing capacity market. Investments are not the only way to increase our generation capacity, in particular in such an important segment as gas. We want this segment to grow also thanks to acquisitions, and we have signed a letter of intent with a term sheet with PAC that is part of Polsat Group for the purchase of gas and steam unit that is already present in the capacity market, and we hope that the negotiations will end successfully. Now we are still holding the talks. Hopefully, this unit will be bought in June. In accordance with this letter of intent and term sheet, that should be possible by June. Yet this transaction is not final, so the final contract has not been signed yet.
We are still negotiating, although we are very positive about it. I mention this just to highlight the fact that we want to develop not only through organic growth, but also through acquisitions. We need to increase the available capacity in Poland quickly, very quickly even. PGE, as the leading partner to the national grid, should participate in this process as much as possible. As soon as possible. Combined, over 5 gigawatts of new power is something that we're planning up to 2030. Going beyond 2030, long-term in the gas segment, we will be disclosing that in our strategy. What we're talking about right now, today, refers to the next few years. Moving on. The offshore wind farms, a lot of you have participated in the celebration that accompanied the signing of the investment project with Baltica 2.
This was a key investment from the point of view of renewable energy, both for PGE, but also for the overall electric energy system. It was the first for us, but the biggest step so far for the development of offshore wind energy. The value of the investment is about PLN 30 billion in total. On our side, it was PLN 15 billion. It's worth repeating that. It's a model investment of how such projects should be carried out because, on the one hand, you can see the regulatory environment that provides predictability. You've got the financial stability of the project for 25 years for the use of the farm. On the other hand, you also have the use of the RRP funds of between PLN 5-6 billion from BGK.
We have managed to tap on quite a lot of EU funds as well to support the rollout of this project. The project is so good and so commercially viable and complete that there were no problems getting over PLN 9.5 billion from commercial banks, private banks, and international financing institutions. That just shows that the project is put together and structured in such a way that really responds to the expectations of the government and the regulator from the point of view of developing the sector on the one hand, but also it is put together in a manner that's also acceptable for international financial institutions, European American banks alike, and international financing authorities and banks, and European Investment Bank, etc.
I spoke a lot about this or European Investment Bank, but it's a model project and contains all the components that are key for the energy transformation and for putting these projects together. From the point of view of financing, this is all financed externally rather than from the budget. The ultimate decision was taken in January. We are already moving ahead on the Baltic, cleaning the area for the foundation of the wind farm to check if the bottom of the sea is adequate or if we need to remove any stones or any obstacles that could prevent us from installing the foundation. That's 2025. Foundations will be put in 2026, 2027 in May. You will have current flowing from the first section of Baltica 2, and that's not the plan. That's the timetable for the rollout of the project. It's already been contracted.
It's already binding both for us and our contractors and partners. All the components of the program, both contractual and financial, have been put together, and we are now coming to the phase of rolling out the timetable, which is very tight, but is very precisely defined. It means that towards the end of 2027 or the second half of 2027, all the turbines and 1.5 gigawatt of power of offshore wind power will be available in the system. The wind turbines and wind energy are not just turbines, actually. They're huge turbines. I'm not sure if you all came to the event that we organized in January, but one blade is a football pitch. That's quite exciting and quite an impressive endeavor. You can have two football pitches, and that's the rotor diameter.
Yeah, wind energy is not just turbines, but it's also the infrastructure. It's the port. That shows you very clearly how much they contribute to the economic development in the long term. The installation port in Gdańsk, after the completion of the next phase of the tower and turbine installation on Baltica 2, the harbor will be used also for other projects that we can roll out on the Baltic Sea. After 10 years, it will become a container terminal that will then, for the next decades to come, be useful to the local economy. That's a typical example of building infrastructure that, for the first years of its functioning, will be dedicated to offshore wind energy, but then in its next stage, the whole infrastructure, the whole shore infrastructure that we are building will be used.
There is a company, our contractor, that just quite simply enlarges the territory of Poland and Gdańsk by 21 hectares. That is an interesting piece of information linked to this project. The installation port that then will become a container terminal, but for 30 years of the wind farm use, we will be servicing it, and the operational center for the management of this farm will be in Ustka, in the new hub. We already have a contract signed for the performance of this infrastructure. All of this will be constructed starting from next year.
The onshore management center for the management of the wind farm and for any troubleshooting or any service maintenance work, all of that will be carried out in the harbor in Ustka, which I think also is another good example of how energy investment changes the face of sometimes the smaller regional towns, and the character of the town of Ustka will be altered. It's now a holiday resort, but this investment, PLN 120 million, will bring it forward to being an economic center throughout the year. The installation port in Gdańsk is about PLN 1 billion in investment. Polski Fundusz Rozwoju is carrying out that with its partners based on a contract for the construction of our farm. The Ustka port is an infrastructure that we're investing in, PLN 120 million for the port infrastructure in Ustka, and that's a game changer for the region and for the town.
I'm not even mentioning here the connection station that's PLN 2 billion, and the local content is what we find important. It's PLN 120 million in Ustka. It's a Polish contractor for the onshore installation construction. It's also a Polish contractor. Now, for the connection infrastructure and station, half of that contract is in the hands of Polish contractors as well. Polinex is a member of the consortium together with the foreign partners, but over half of the contract is locally owned. Energy warehousing, that's the next segment that we are developing. This is something that needs to be there between when we generate the energy and use the energy. We generate it when it's sunny or when it's windy, but we consume it all the time, even in the evening or when it stops being windy.
To stabilize the situation and the power in the system when generation is dropping from renewables, for that purpose, we have the energy warehousing. We have already signed for two such facilities. When was that conference? For the storage of energy? March. It was March. It was all prepared last year, actually. That is why I am saying that, because both Żarnowiec and Gryfino are contracts that were concluded in December. It is the exact type of infrastructure that demonstrates so well. I forgot the dates. Apologies. A lot has been happening. That just demonstrates what we need between when we generate and when we use the electricity. We need a stabilizing component, one that will help us react to what happened, for example, three days ago. For eight hours, the energy prices on the market were negative.
You can upload the infrastructure with your energy and then sell it when the prices grow. That is the purpose of the storage. We showed the whole infrastructure in March during that conference, but we will also show it to a greater degree of detail later when we present our strategy. We have already contracted two of such facilities, one in Żarnowiec and the other one in Gryfino. It is the same, actually, area where we bought the gas units. There is going to be a big storage facility. We will select the contractor this year, and over the next two years, we will make it operational. Żarnowiec will open slightly earlier. That is 2027. We are planning to make it available. Those are big infrastructural projects.
We're talking about 1,000 megawatt hours for each that will feed this type of energy to the system when it's loaded, when there is increased generation from renewables. We have a power-based contract, but we will also act on what is referred to as arbitration. Whenever the prices are lower, we're even looking at the daily or weekly profile, right? Even within one day, if the price profile changes because they are volatile on the market, if the price is at its lowest, then the storage can be loaded up, and it can feed the energy back whenever the price peaks again in the evening or early in the morning. I believe this is important. It's important for us from the point of view of development, but also business point of view, but also the stability of the system.
It plays a very important role for stabilizing the system of the electricity. Moving forward, we spoke about distribution lately. During the conference devoted to the development of the distribution sector, that's one of the basic segments of our operations, generates the biggest contribution to our operational results. It is also a segment that requires big investments. Due to the changes in the system, the type of energy production, the place of this production, the distribution grid needs to network, needs to be smarter, better react to the changes in volume and power in the system. The investment program here is about PLN 5 billion annually that we earmark for different projects for this to be more smart, safe. Cables for increasing transmission capacity, but also its resilience to weather.
We need to provide cabling and also, yeah, put the cables in the ground and take them off the pylons, which is good for the landscape, but also from the point of view of the reliability of the grid. A lot is happening. Sometimes we forget the details, but sometimes we connect 50,000 consumer households a year to the grid. That was our result last year, which is a huge challenge, as a matter of fact, from the point of view of the stability and operations of the grid, and also from the point of view of servicing the transmissions, especially when the weather is bright and sunny. This segment needs to be prepared to cater for all that traffic.
Economic growth and the development means that in the distribution sector, and we are very glad to see that, we are connecting over 4,000 new enterprises a year as well. Households, Polish people build houses. They invest in new households. Over 50,000 households a year are connected to our grid. It is about 1,000 km of mid-range voltage lines have been cabled. That segment needs to evolve. We need to invest quite heavily in it because it has a significant contribution to our operational results, and it is one of the main pathways for development of our operations. Poproszę. Heat last year was about getting rid of previously accumulated delays in Czech Nitza, Rzeszów. We were making up for the delays related to code generation premium. We managed to sort out all those things.
Very soon, we will open a new heat generation plant in Czechowice. On this occasion, we would also like to show how heat generation evolves. We supply heat in 16 cities across Poland. We are the largest heat supplier in Poland. However, this segment has to transform, be more environmentally friendly, and more flexible in responding to market challenges. We will show you details of it at the end of May. That is our current plan for a special event dedicated to heat generation. I can, by the way, already now invite you to the event in Czechowice. We won some auctions in cogeneration. We have Kraków and Gdańsk plants. We are preparing new locations for cogeneration. This segment, by 2030, will have decarbonized, will invest in pure generation and heat boilers.
These are multi-billion investments intended to ensure stable heat supplies, but also the effect of those developments will be increasing the efficiency of the group operations. Nuclear energy, that's another new segment. Maybe not completely new, new old segment. I personally was involved in that for many years. A lot is happening there. In my opinion, the technology is experiencing significant revival. There is much greater public approval of this technology, much more political approval. We are now talking not only of huge plants, but also smaller ones which can be scalable in a particular location. As the large generator, the company responsible for energy security of the state, we cannot ignore what is going on in this technology.
We want to monitor the developments here, and we want to have an offer for major plants like Bełchatów, where after winding down the operations related to conventional generation, infrastructure will still remain, and technical highly qualified personnel will remain. That is an opportunity to install nuclear plants in the same locations. We believe that the infrastructure in Bełchatów, the scale of the operations there, enables Bełchatów to be a promising location of the second stage of the nuclear plant. We are now starting detailed studies. These are preliminary for the moment. That is the methodology you have to follow in that type of activity. The studies will show us whether or not there are any factors that would exclude Bełchatów from the possibility of being the location for a nuclear plant. We are checking seismic conditions, stability of the ground.
We will drill deeper to see the water situation in greater detail. Now we are doing those studies in a manner that is technologically neutral without determining the specific technology. We just want to check the general circumstances. Very soon, we will sign a contract for carrying out all those studies. We will not forget SMRs, small reactors, modular reactors, because a lot is happening in this field. We can apply this technology in smaller plants like Turów, for example, or in heat generation. This is, however, something of the future. Nevertheless, this is a technology which we cannot lose sight of. We have to be prepared to use it, and we have to consider it when we design our generation capacity.
A short summary of a major part of our last year's activities, namely a revision of what had happened in the group, of what actions had to be reviewed. In our opinion, some of those actions shouldn't have taken place in a state-owned company. Definitely not in a company like PGE Polska Grupa Energetyczna, which is both state-owned and listed at the Warsaw Stock Exchange. In some cases, we had to notify the prosecutor of crime having been committed for the amount of PLN 50 million, with some suspicious promotional activities that were completely unrelated to group operations carried out within the foundation and industry organization in the Polish Energy Committee. We also identified some activities that had all the characteristics of mismanagement of assets. Therefore, we had to notify the prosecutor of a crime to the amount of PLN 12 million having been committed.
We are not competent to fully confirm this. Prosecutor's office will do that. There is also another amount of PLN 70 million, which are seriously doubtful and dubious from our perspective. That is it as regards my part of the presentation. I would like to hand over to Mr. Jastrzębski, Vice President for Finance, who will talk you through financial aspects of our last year's activities.
Thank you, Mr. President. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Let me start with a brief background regarding the energy market because that places us in the context of 2024. A positive thing last year was an increase in electricity consumption. In our opinion, this should continue in the following periods, of course, on the assumption that there are no major turbulences in the macroeconomic or geopolitical environment. Energy consumption increased by almost 1%, and this growth was covered by domestic generation.
Thanks to this generation, we also managed to reduce net imports of energy by about 2 terawatt hours. Poland continues to be a net importer, but in the last two months of the past year, the situation proved very volatile when there were shortages of energy generated from renewable energy sources. We found out that it was necessary to have something to fall back on. Investments in gas represent one of the necessary conditions of overall responsibility in investing into this segment because the conventional energy sources and the units that generate energy from conventional sources contribute to keeping energy prices under control. As for the development of prices in the electricity market, last year we had a downward trend on contracts, PLN 530 per megawatt hour at the beginning of the year in January, down to PLN 425 at the end of the year.
To some extent, this was the effect of the greater power from renewable energy sources, but there were also decreases in CO2 emission rates and fuel. There was some turbulence in global markets. As a result, EUR 60 per ton was the price of CO2 emission rates. Also, fuel prices show a downward trend, while coal has shown a downward trend for quite some time now. Later, natural gas joined this trend with its prices going down. As a result, energy prices and contracts for 2026 are already now below PLN 410 per megawatt hour. With this volatility of the market, our competitive edge results from our diversified generation infrastructure. As a result, we can adjust to variable market conditions. As for operating results, our generation in 2024 versus 2023 continued at a comparable level.
Drops in generation from hard coal were covered and depreciated by putting into operation of Gryfino Dolna Odra plant, which is powered by gas and to some extent by greater use of lignite-powered units. The total generation is slightly lower, but this was also driven by the situation in the heat market, namely relatively higher temperatures caused lower demand for heat and lower utilization of heat plants, and lower generation of heat. Importantly, we recorded a growth in the volume of distributed energy by about 4%. This was partly the result of full integration of railway energy. There was also a real growth in energy consumption. This growth was higher in distribution than consumption. In distribution, that was 1.4%. In retail sales, we had a year-on-year decrease, mainly owing to the lower sales to the largest clients.
We would typically also present the main components of EBITDA in 2024. Looking at the total EBITDA, let me point out the general decrease in the profitability of generation. We have not been here forced to pay the differences in price, but that has not prevented us from having a significant drop in the margin, which mostly results from a significantly lower actual sales price of energy. That is almost PLN 250 per megawatt hour. Lower costs of CO2 and fuels, to a certain degree, neutralized this situation and moderated that, but this positive contribution was not sufficient. It was too low to fully neutralize it because we are talking about PLN 6.4 billion. The result for generation also decreased year-on-year by about PLN 460 million. We noted down also lower revenue from support mechanisms. The combined negative impact is about PLN 1.3 billion.
Positive outcome in distribution, where the investment that systematically carried out has started translating to adequate return with the growth of volume. The outcome is about PLN 1.5 million and plus. Now, for rail energy, the positive outcome in distribution is not so visible because it is up to the timetable of connection rollout, and the key investments were completed in 2023. The effect of inflation increased costs. We see that as well in the area of overheads. Of course, other than we have the impact of one additional quarter of consolidation of rail energy other than collective bargaining, but there is also dynamic recruitment in the area of renewable energy. In the other category, we have the key item here for contracts that trigger liabilities. We had a provision for G tariff in 2024. Such a need was not identified.
Also for this item, we take away the settlement for compensation for coal bought for customers. In 2024, one-off events, individual events impacted positively the EBITDA. That is quite a large scale, actually, because PLN 1.3 billion, which compared to 2023 is an important shift because in that period we had a deterioration by over PLN 700 million in that area. The change of recultivation provision, that is due to the increased interest rates. Similarly, in 2023, this component had actually the opposite tendency, a decreasing tendency, and that was over PLN 500 million. For 2024, still we have a positive impact of the compensation for electricity. That is PLN 600 million, just over PLN 600 million. A negative impact of another one-off event, that was write-off for PKP Cargo liabilities, and that is PLN 120 million.
To sum up, reported EBITDA last year was PLN 12.2 billion, which constitutes an increase vis-à-vis this category in 2023, where we had PLN 10 billion. It's easy to calculate that the growth is 22%. Moving forward to investment, when we roll out our investment policy and spending, we confirm the transformation pathways for the group. We spent PLN 600 million more in 2024. We exceeded PLN 10 billion. The biggest growth was noted in renewables, and that's 50%, as well as gas energy, where the increase is 130%. For renewables, the increased spending is due to the outlay on Baltica 2, but in this area, we also finalized some solar projects and some energy storage projects. In 2024, we did not yet have a battery-based project. It's mainly the modernization of Promptka Jar Plant, where some modernization was done on the upper part.
Now work is continued in the technological part. In the distribution sector, the outlay is on the level of PLN 4 billion. It is relatively stable. For rail, slightly lower, but that results from what I already said, the connections carried out in 2023. Heat, the outlay was comparable. We continue the decarbonization project. We predict that in the future, it will grow. We are gathering up speed with our investment in new locations, new towns. We will be commissioning projects for decarbonization. What is visible here in the slide is a similar significant limitation in conventional energy. We focus mostly on just upkeep of what we already have, and we want to make sure that we maintain discipline in this area. Now, for indebtedness, this is something that the management board attaches great importance to.
We are quite aware that we need to keep a secure level of indebtedness, a safe one, due to the fact that our investment plans are very ambitious, and there is a lot of spending going forward. We need to make sure our rating is good, and we need to also make sure that our indebtedness ratio is okay. Towards the end of 2024, it was PLN 11 billion, and it was a similar level than we had in 2023. Let's remember what is very important here, that when we analyze the level of indebtedness, we need to take into account the fact that PGE as a group spends, on average, on annual, despite the decrease of CO2 prices, huge amounts, around PLN 20 billion. So twice its EBITDA. It is significantly more than the capitalization of the whole group.
Looking at these challenges in terms of cash flow, the management needs to very thoroughly and very cautiously be looking at debt and making sure the level of debt is safe, quite simply. This is a standard slide. For EBITDA and the outlook for this year, not much has changed here vis-à-vis the outlook that we presented in quarter three when we were presenting the results of quarter three 2024. The only significant change is increased prospective outlook for distribution. We know the WACA for 2025. It is increased value of regulatory value of our assets by 20. It exceeds PLN 24 billion right now. That was the reason why we amended our outlook here in this category. For the final outcome, what is going to be important is the level of energy consumption, electricity. Regarding the rest, I think, like I said, not much has changed, hardly anything.
We can move on. Here I present our outlook for the investment. Up in the head, undoubtedly, renewables with a predictive scale of growth in investment and spending. We have the ever so much speeding up Baltica 2 project, and we have projects in energy storage. Gas energy, we have completed a Gryfino project, but this year we are focusing on the Rybnik project, where work is underway, and the advancement of the project is growing. For that reason alone, we think that the spending will be higher. Conventional energy, I have already made reference to it here. We are trying to keep it at a minimum level, just the maintenance, just the upkeep, the assumption being that we are also securing a safe level of continuity of these assets. The cost discipline is a priority here. Heat, I said that already.
This year, we're not looking at any significant changes, but we keep that in mind. Decarbonization is going to speed up, and I presume that in 2026 and the years to come, the outlay will grow. Distribution and rail, there will be some increase, but not a spectacular one. What's important here is that there will be support from RRP, which I'm sure you remember. You are aware. We signed two contracts for loans with BGK for RRP. The combined total amount is PLN 12 billion, and those funds will help us to support our operations in these two areas in distribution. I think that concludes my presentation.
Thank you so much. This is where we wrap up our presentations, and we open a Q&A session.
As you know, because it's our habit, first we'll go with questions that we received previously or just now to the Chairperson. The question about the strategy, which has already been included in your presentation. When can you expect the announcement of the new strategy of PGE?
Perhaps this will be a spoiler already because we have given you a teaser of the wind offshore energy and the storage and distribution projects. These are the components that are going to contribute to our overall strategy that we want to demonstrate in the first 10 days of June.
We will perhaps elaborate on a few of these points, but when you observe us in the media, when you see the presentations of specific segments, you might imagine that all of that will constitute one coherent total strategy, of course, assuming that the macroeconomic environment and the geopolitical environment does not surprise us strongly. Every day is new in the geopolitical world. We are trying to focus on what we know and put all these pieces together in a coherent picture. Work is still underway on our strategy, but putting it all together, making it a whole.
We will show heat at the end of May and all in total in the first 10 days of June in one coherent document, at least a decade ahead, in as much as we can be certain of anything for a decade, because the world around us shows that different things can happen. Some things are certain. Transformation is the resources in Bełchatów will run out within 10 years or less. Some pathways are clear. We need to adapt the group or change the group to match the challenges that are ahead and that are linked to the transformation, to the change of the structure, change in distribution methods, and the changing use and consumption. I have already touched upon that in my preliminary remark. Thank you.
Jastrzębskiego.
The next question is to Mr. Jastrzębski. The microphone is off, so we cannot hear the speaker reading out the question. Could you please turn on the microphone?
Ladies and gentlemen, times are very uncertain. Our entire environment is characterized by huge volatility. We have to be conservative because, as the CEO has pointed out, we do not really know what the upcoming years will bring with regard to climate policy, emission costs, charges related to the functioning of the conventional sector. On the other hand, we have a comprehensive development plan, which, in our opinion, builds long-term value of the group, relying on offshore energy, wind farms, and gas. Those investments are efficient. They are proven by market scenarios, and we have the RRP program aligned with our operations. In this context, we are very well positioned to build the value of the company.
We believe that we have the potential to pay out the dividend, but this year, the general shareholders' meeting decided that we would not recommend this.
[Foreign language] . At the point of strategy publication, we will comment a bit more on dividend and the potential for the future in this respect, but that will be in the context of our comprehensive strategy.
Thank you. One more brief question. What will be the total CapEx in 2025? That is probably also to Mr. Jastrzębski.
I have briefly touched upon this in my presentation. We will see a significant growth in renewable energy in Baltica 2. That is being done in project finance formula. If we exclude this project from our calculation, it seems that CapEx will grow by several, up to 10%. We have to be aware that the total amount will be determined by the schedule of work and settlements. Life will show.
I think this is a good point to give the floor to those present in the room. Please use the microphone when asking questions.
Citibank, I would like to ask whether you are still talking about offsetting any assets. Could you please comment on this? My second question would be regarding tariff applications. There was some news that you would introduce new tariffs that would be aimed at reducing costs. What is your vision of the acquisition of assets by Polish energy groups and valuation of those assets? Will that be sensible in the context of the overall energy transformation in Poland?
Could you please repeat this question about acquisitions? I think there were some three or four acquisitions in the market, but you are talking about our group or the market in general?
The market in general. Do you want to participate in this or not? Are you looking for acquisition opportunities?
As for setting off certain of our assets, this topic is not finally closed. There are some studies still being prepared. The ministry is making them, and we contribute to the studies by providing information. Hopefully, in the second half of the year, we will reach some conclusions. At the end of the day, the decision will be up to the owner. I would just like to say that the situation around the company and our environment and with regard to individual segments of our operations is very dynamic, and certain directions are not as evident as they were a year or six months ago.
We consulted all those developments on a regular basis with our owner, and in the second half of this year, we should see those topics being finalized one way or another. As for tariffs, we are not really interested in seeing energy prices grow, meaning that more expensive energy means higher costs for the economy. We have a major problem with energy prices as economy. They are not low at all. If you mention any headlines about tariffs, I would like to say that our tariffs reflect if we return to this slide with energy prices. There was this nice graph there. Okay, please look at this graph. Energy prices go down after the wonderful year 2022. Now prices are going down, and this is reflected in tariffs. We need to find the right balance with margins and so on.
In general, if tariffs go down, that's good news for the market because there is better competition. We do not really expect any major changes here other than what is already reflected in the trend visible in the slide. Of course, we always have to take into account macroeconomic conditions. Yet nothing seems to indicate any reversal of the current trend. We should simply offer our prices to consumers accordingly. This is simply a reflection of what is going on in the market, and this slide shows very well that both business consumers. Let me stress here that PGE Polska Grupa Energetyczna offers the most attractive price to both business consumers and households. There is material potential for reduction of prices. Of course, that will be on the regulator to make those decisions. The market situation shows the existence of this potential.
In my opinion, subject to geopolitical circumstances which might affect markets in some way, I do not really expect this trend to be reversed anytime soon. We are talking about tariffs in the context of next year because usually they are set for 12 months. I do not expect any higher price next year or rejection of the current trend. Please notice that we are already now contracting prices for households for next year, taking advantage of the current market situation with the energy price in the wholesale market going down. We do not speculate. We do not buy on spot market in the groups that are subject to tariffs. For sure, those groups will be beneficiaries of significant drops in prices. For sure, that will translate into better tariffs for consumers next year. As for acquisitions, I agree. How can I put it diplomatically?
In the market, the value of some assets which were sold or bought last year or two years ago differed very much from the previous years, especially in photovoltaics and solar energy. We believe that all M&A potential, in general, we are interested in acquisitions, in particular in wind energy, onshore wind energy. We do not exclude photovoltaic technology, and for sure, we are interested in the gas sector. We are analyzing this based on very good projections and very good estimates of the value of those projects and the price we might pay with the right safety buffer with various scenarios of sensitivity to market changes. We are conservative in approaching negotiations, and I agree with you that the prices paid in the market for various types of assets declined, but we did not really overpay for anything. I cannot recall any such situation.
For sure, we are considering safe, conservative scenarios. For sure, in the last 12 or 14 months, the potential for value generation by some assets can be longer than what seemed to be the case two years ago.
I would like to ask for additional information regarding risk, risk in buying when there are high prices. My question to you is, what is your policy on G tariff?
I think this is precisely that. I do not see that as in contradiction with what we presented. We make sequential purchases. Now we are buying for April next year. In May, we will be buying for May next year and so on. This is how it works.
There might be some interpretation doubts, but in particular in G tariff, the situation is such that we buy one year in advance, sequentially, month after month for the corresponding month of the following year. If today the energy is cheaper by 20% than last year, this should maybe not ideally, but close to linear fashion have a translation into what happens next year. I'm convinced that consumers of energy and the budget that had to freeze energy prices will see the positive impact because the prices already now are below the frozen price. If we look at PLN 450 or even around PLN 400, that is already now significantly below the price frozen for this year, which is a good sign for next year.
What about dynamic tariffs? Is there a chance you will offer dynamic tariffs next year? In trade, dynamic tariffs in trade. Why do you have such significant commercial fee, PLN 49? Do you want to scare off the clients, to dissuade them from using those dynamic tariffs?
Definitely nothing to dissuade clients. I would not interpret that this way. Piotr, perhaps you could take this question. Are you familiar with this topic?
Not with the details.
You do not use dynamic tariffs?
Yes, we do. We offer those. We work on dynamic tariffs. I am sure I can say that. That is also linked with introducing a new billing system, and we are doing that. What we need is significant progress in smart meters and progressing with the billing system. We are working on that. It is in the pipeline, already being tested for invoicing and for operational capacity. Those are tools that will help us offer to the client all the benefits of dynamic tariffs.
We need smart meters for that, and we need a flexible and well-operating billing system. This is being implemented now. We are working on it. I'm sure such products will be offered to our clients.
And last question, the decrease of sales in tariff A to 4.1 from 5, did you lose some significant accounts there, or is it just that heavy industry is not doing very well?
I think both the aspects that you mentioned are true. Yes, we have lost some significant accounts, but also there is a decreased volume. When you look at the tariff and distribution, perhaps you do not necessarily see the decrease so importantly. There is some slight fluctuation in terms of the situation, but more in terms of the volume of our customers. You also definitely need to look at all the aspects. We don't have to sell to all, but let's sell to where we have the right margins, right?
I would say, sir, that it's not trying to get as much volume as we can, but try to get volume with margin that makes sense. Sometimes, often we decide that on certain price levels, we just prefer to refrain from offering rather than making a commitment that is risky and could generate negative margin. I think that's a summary. We are conservative when it comes to our risk analysis because our experience from the past is not that good.
Bartłomiej Sawicki, Rzeczpospolita Daily. Can you hear me? I wanted to ask you about your Monday meeting with the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister informed about this meeting during his press conference. What was the subject of the meeting and what suggestions, hints did you receive from the Prime Minister?
This meeting was about the situation that the Prime Minister described. I'm not going to deny what the Prime Minister said because that's exactly what it was about, whatever Prime Minister communicated. In general terms, we covered a few important points. In my view, Prime Minister decided to communicate with heads of key energy companies directly, face to face, and he told us what is key to the position of Polish energy industry, and that's prices, and that we need to do everything for the Polish energy sector to work out prices that can reinforce the competitiveness of the Polish economy. That was one of the main key messages of Prime Minister, that energy prices will be the decisive factor for the competitiveness of the Polish economy and the development of Poland.
That's the strategic goal of the Polish government to reinforce the competitiveness of the Polish economy. I myself informed Prime Minister that this is what our investment program is for, to make sure that we can target price decreases. I said that there was some good news regarding the potential tariff level next year. Prime Minister was interested to hear about the developments in prices for households in the next tariff periods. I informed Prime Minister. I'm summarizing what I said, that the situation on the energy market is a good prognosis of what's happening and what's going to happen with the tariffs and generally on the regulated market. Our negotiations with the regulator are happening. The conversation evolved around economy, confirming that we have the same goals. We have shared goals.
From my point of view, definitely our goals are converging. What I always said, PGE Polska Grupa Energetyczna does not chase short-term benefit or profit. We support the development of Polish enterprises. Polish development means more energy sold, and economic development is also useful for us because we can then constructively look at what our role is going to be as support for the Polish growth. That is basically what the conversation was about, development and energy sector.
We are running out of time, ladies and gentlemen, and I know that some of you are heading towards the next presentation, so please, brief questions. If someone can stay behind, then we can talk informally afterwards, but please, just small questions, brief questions.
Santander, if one brief question is allowed. Offshore. Offshore. That is going to be my question. Do you think, Chairman, that your win in the December auction is a priority? Also, while we speak about it, the phase I was already being built. It was going to be settled from Ørsted. There was going to be a second payment. Am I wrong? When is that payment going to happen?
I believe it already has.
I confirm, yes, it already has. This topic has been concluded to respond to your question. Yes, of course, the December auction is very important for us from the point of view of growing this segment. We are getting ready for this auction, and we will definitely participate in it. It will be very important from the point of view of growing the segment, but not the last one. Please remember that we are looking here at the long-term perspective, but I definitely spoke about it.
The more power, the sooner the better, but definitely not at all costs. I already spoke about this. Sometimes we prefer to refrain from bidding than to bid if we do not know it will be bankable. You know what that means, right? Because you are a banker. It is not always about winning, but it is about winning in a way that enables you to finance the project. We will be preparing projects for this auction. We are quite optimistic about our joint evaluation of the importance of the segment for the development of the Polish energy transformation and the renewables sector. We are optimistic. Of course, the only thing I can confirm at this point is definitely, yes, we will take part in it. It is an important auction, and we will be participating in it.
I hope successfully so far we have managed to be successful with these projects. I hope we will be in December. It is not the only and not the last auction. We can also auction elsewhere, not just in December, because the outreach of our portfolio is significant.
Nuclear. We spoke about Bełchatów and Turów. What about Konin? Are you going to close it?
No, we want to take it over because it has competence and it has some achievements. Now, when you research nuclear locations, you research a few at a time. You need to sometimes also look at elements that are discouraging for a certain location. We do need to work on both, whether to continue in Konin and definitely commission Bełchatów.
That's a standard procedure that for quite a significant period, you will conclude parallel analyses for alternative locations due to risk management in case there is some circumstance that makes it difficult to go forward with a specific location. You need to have a backup. That is the approach. When I talk about Bełchatów, I wanted to add on this location in our analysis. If we take over this company where we are now a partner with PAC, we would continue the analysis in that area too. We will use the same team to widen its scope, shall we say.
Bloomberg News. Let me just go back briefly to the dividend because in the SPO communication, you spoke about conventional assets. Conventional assets and payment for CO2 is uncertain for future flows. Does that mean that you are letting us know that if you did not have those assets, the dividend would be paid quicker? And with those assets, it will be paid later?
The quantity and the size of the conventional energy segment, which is the main contributor to our economic debt, causes that we are cautious. There is a significant risk in future flows depending on what the costs are of ETS. That is that. Definitely, when or if we were to have fewer high-risk segments, our appetite or willingness to offer a dividend would be bigger because there would be fewer risks. It is the risk that causes the caution, right? We believe that, yes, you read our intentions well.
Dominik Brodacki, Politica Insight. Two brief questions. Will you repeat or revise your goals for offshore development? Whether any specific % will be included in how much you want to have electricity from nuclear, or is it further in the future? And how much from gas also? Because what's your cap in the 2030s beyond 2030?
You want me to disclose the strategy already. We have given you the volume until 2030. It will be significantly higher after 2020 in gas. I do not want to disclose everything because we will be bored when we reveal the strategy, and you will not have any news later on. It will be significantly higher. That is what we are planning, right? Because let's remember that developing gas power, due to the fact that it is supplementary to renewables, what is important here, very important, is strategy and cooperation with the operator that will be contracting these generation capacities.
We feel fully responsible, but we need to be supported by the operators with the right measures on the power market. For offshore, we have over 7 gigawatts in concessions that will be auctioned over at least a decade. For the December auction, we are preparing new projects. It will definitely not be the end of the projects that we have in the Baltic that could be subject to the auctions in subsequent years because they are at a different stage of development, environmental, geological studies, etc. They are being rolled out in a specific sequence. You can't do everything all at once. Right now, we are deeply convinced that we should be developing the offshore wind sector. As the projects mature, they will be prepared for auctions.
The first in December, not the last one, because we are preparing some more ones that could be subject to the auctions in subsequent years.
Thank you. Last question, please.
[Foreign language] . Robert, my POPA security. I would like to ask one more question in the context of yesterday's statement by the Prime Minister regarding utility of state-owned company. They should or they should not? They should not.
Profit should not be the only goal of our operations.
Now, the question regarding the tariff. When you apply to the regulator with your next application, will you revise this?
Okay. As far as I can recall, the Prime Minister said we should not be guided solely by the profit. We need to ensure energy security. That also means avoiding energy exclusion. Those interests have to be reconciled.
As we showed in the graph, the utility in which the state holds the majority stake should look at the market situation rather than push up prices, taking advantage of its privileged position. We have to take into account the interest of the company understood as maintaining the potential for development of the group so that it can uphold its future role of taking care of energy security of the economy and consumers. On the other hand, it should not focus on short-term speculation just because there is an opportunity to earn some millions, not just profit, but also responsibility. This is how we approach our task. Value for the shareholders, but also responsibility for the competitiveness of the Polish economy. Otherwise, we would only be harming this economy. We want it to develop rather than shrink.
We should not worry that there will be losses in sales.
We will continue to have a constructive dialogue with the regulator, justifying the economic interest of the group and pointlessness of activities that might generate losses. Always, the regulator has the final say. There is always an exchange of arguments. Sometimes the arguments presented by a company like ours are partially accepted and partially rejected by the regulator. There are two parties here, and we will find a way forward. For sure, we will apply for those tariffs which fit market conditions and which, in my opinion, will prove more beneficial to consumers.
Thank you very much for joining us today, both here and online. We would like to invite you to the next conference summing up the first quarter 2025. Thank you.