Good morning, we can start. Welcome at the press conference of PGE Polska Grupa Energetyczna, focused on financial and other results for the last quarter with our CEO, Wojciech Dąbrowski, Vice President of the Management Board for Finance, Lechosław Rojewski, and Director of Finance Division, Piotr Sudoł. In a moment, I will give over to the management board members, and then we will end with a Q&A session. Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen, the year 2023 is heading towards an end, and the past three quarters have shown the key role of the Polish Energy Group in the process of transformation of the Polish energy sector. Over PLN 0.6 billion investments that we had this year represented a 73% on past year, and that is excluding our acquisitions in network and renewable energy assets.
So that indicates our consistency in implementing the strategy of the Polish Energy Group. This trend has continued in line with the strategy of 2020, and towards the target of climate neutrality. We are consistent in pursuing this target. Our renewable capacity increased by 50% by now, and I think that's an interesting piece of information to you. The end of the year is, in a way, a time inviting all sorts of summaries, and this increase something that we can boast as a success of this management board and the success of all employees of the Polish Energy Group. This policy of striving for climate neutrality and going away from coal is something that we pursue consistently.
Intensification of activities can also be seen in the transformation of distribution networks and decarbonization of the heating sector. The direction of our strategy also requires carving off coal assets. Unfortunately, financial institutions will no longer provide funding for institutions that rely to a large extent on coal. That is a very clear message sent from financial institutions and banks. Under no circumstances will they finance investments in groups in which coal is used in production to such a large extent as it has been till now. This is something we've been mentioning for a long time. That is why we've been working hard on sorting out the question of coal assets. Now, our companies are prepared to function without relying on coal assets. For that, the parliament needs to approve a law on state guarantees.
As you might recall, this law was not approved by the previous parliament, and now, it is a task for the present one, and this is the only obstacle to full operationality. The companies are prepared for that. And we have a plan, a very precise plan, over the next years, how those institutions will be financed. And the only major obstacle right now is this law on state treasury guarantees, which is necessary for the banks to take over the debt on assets related to coal. I definitely believe that the energy sector in Poland requires a refreshed attitude towards assets around privatization.
Of course, there are also opinions that a panacea to solve all problems in transformation of Polish energy would be to privatize it, and we are on a clear stance that this is not the right path. Privatization will not accelerate energy sector transformation, nor will it contribute to the development of capacity improvement. For sure, independence of the state in terms of energy is deterred by this line of activity. So setting off coal assets is necessary to maintain Polish energy sector in Polish hands, while at the same time assuring that we have sufficient funds for the transformation. As you know, enormous funding is required, and still conventional coal assets prevent us from obtaining the funding for investments. Let me present you the investment process, because this is probably something of interest to you.
We have distribution. Let me start with the segment in which we've had the greatest CapEx in nine months of this year. That was almost PLN 3 billion, record high CapEx in the history of the group. Almost 2.5 times more than last year. 250% year-on-year increase. Within this program, we cabled over 1,000 kilometers overground cables, which improved power supply to customers, and allowed us to connect new consumers, producers, and prosumers. We also have a prosumer sector development, and this is something that we as Polska Grupa Energetyczna support very much. Then, replacement of meters to smart meters in medium voltage stations.
We increased over 100, we replaced over 110,000 meters, and we modernized 4,400 stations for installation of smart meters. Improvement in renewable energy sources and offshore agreement on foundations in the form of single pillars. For Baltica 2, everything is already contracted. Previously, we also signed a contract for laying and connecting cables, which will involve using special ships, which we also have signed the relevant contracts. Tenders and contract signings, as a result of these, show how advanced the project is. In the first stage, Baltica 1, the capacity will be 1.5 MW installed capacity, installed power. That is the greatest project in Poland, based on renewable energy sources, and we are just talking about the first stage.
The second area in renewable energy sources that we are involved in is building photovoltaic farms. So far, we have handed over for operations 131 PV farms, 30 more projects with a total capacity of over 300 MW are underway, and until the end of the third quarter, 2025, these should be handed over for use. At the same time, we are working on a series of new projects, most advanced over 150 MW capacity, and the construction of these should start by the end of 2024. With regard to wind energy, we have recently bought some, we had some acquisitions increasing our capacity to 800 MW. So we keep maintaining the leadership in Poland.
On the twentieth of September, PGE Renewable Energy acquired Zalesie, with a 25 MW capacity. Operations started immediately after the acquisition.
Cogeneration. We've been consistently implementing an advanced Polish cogeneration transformation project, and we've been the largest producer of heat, and we have a comprehensive transformation plan of this market segment. At the Zgierz cogeneration plant, we shut down the coal-fired boiler, and we have put into line three gas-fueled engines, 4.4 MW. 7 MW reserve boiler, and we will also continue the PV panels. At the EC Czechnica, we have put into commission the gas-fired 179 MW boiler, and a peak and reserve power of capacity of 152 MW. These cogeneration plants will supply power and heat to many inhabitants of Wrocław at the end of 2024.
I'd like to relate to our conflict with the service provider, which is Polimex Mostostal. It is not true that after the last verdict of the court, the costs went up by PLN 230 million. It is just the collateral, which is, by the way, not legally binding yet. We are still in negotiations with Polimex, and we want to end this conflict amicably. Also, I'd like to remind you that we are a stakeholder in Polimex, so we are looking forward to reaching a good agreement with the company and to continuing this project, investment project, without the conflict that you, ladies and gentlemen, described in the media. That includes also this court collateral.
Another area that we've been pursuing transformation is the Kielce cogeneration plant, where we implement new production capacities. At Rzeszów, we have been building the second line to recover energy from waste. Also, we've been busy in the Gdynia, Kraków, Wrocław, and Gdańsk, where we prepare new investment projects. We want to have those power units installed by 2030, that would spell the end to coal in those cities. We've been also building the peak and the reserve boiler rooms of the capacity of 220 MW in Gdynia, Gorzów, Rzeszów, and Lublin. In 2023, we completed reserve peak boiler rooms in Kielce and Bydgoszcz of the capacity of 200 MW thermal. Low-emissions power generation.
As part of a new potential of ours in low emissions, conventional, power plants, we've started building, two 617-MW power units at Gryfino, and the gas and heat, generation plant of 871 MW in Rybnik. The progress has been made, the second quarter of 2024 will see the commissioning of both units. The Rybnik plant will be commissioned in, December 2026. Another very important thing that you have flagged up, and our clients, too, are the electricity prices. So to preempt your questions, I decided to address, the questions that you've been asking in the media. Firstly, we've been consistently transforming, the PGE in order to provide our clients with accessible and inexpensive electricity in the long run, which is very important for our clients. This is what the general expectation is.
We are talking about the future, but also about today. So given the energy crisis and the need to curb the price surges, market regulations are of key importance. And you, since you are the sectoral media, you know very well how the markets regulations are built. In your contributions, in your article, you also flag up certain doubts. That also includes the statements by the URE president. Another extra cost for the writers that the president announced to will be 500, 508, fi- sorry, 50 billion PLN, and the fund will be made of 20, which we still support.
The main source of debts are interpreting the sales prices that have not been put to use because the clients received the maximum invoices, so the companies would have to write or actually pay as tax, the incomes that have not been received. So we are negotiating contracts with the parties to the agreements. The prices of electricity will see a lowering by PLN 125. This is what you've been interested in as journalists. The question is, how this regulation impacts the households? In October, we have made, we have built a reserve of PLN 291 million. That reserve is based on very accurate calculation, including the number of customers as of Q3, that actually fulfill the requirements resulting from the regulation.
We have accounted for 5 million receptacles that can be included in this regulation by meeting the criteria, and this is why we have built this reserve of PLN 291 million, which is prone to modifications. We have also applied to amend the G tariff, so that the loss that the group is going to incur if the regulation enters into force, will be equalized in the tariff. However, I'd like to emphasize that all our clients that meet the regulation's requirements, will be able to use that PLN 125 deduction. Now, about the prices for 2024, which has been of interest to you every time.
When we speak about the prices, please know that the electricity prices went down significantly in 2023, but not as much as not to enable the government to dismantle the support mechanisms. Our clients need support still, so the prices have been actually frozen, effectively frozen at 2022 levels. The prices are still higher than that level, so the household see a dramatic impact if the prices were to be unfrozen. And the clients ask us many questions, so we see the need to continue to support the clients as dictated or as decided by the new parliament. So coal is another issue that comes and goes every time when we talk to each other. We also received a number of questions relating to coal.
When it comes to the supply, we are still negotiating the contracts with the PGG, which will cover about 70% of our coal demand.
Yeah, after the final talks, the price is trade secret. However, I should say that it reflects the market situation. It was a priority for us to contract coal at the lowest possible price acceptable to both parties, because eventually, that translates into energy prices and of course, into the current situation of the entire mining sector. At the same time, the production will be—the generation will be at the level appropriate from the perspective of the Polska Grupa Energetyczna, and it will ensure a stable output. You also asked questions, and we answered the point on a couple of occasions on intervention purchases of coal to ensure energy security during the peak of the Russian invasion in Ukraine.
On the 10th October this year, we concluded an agreement with the Ministry of Climate and Environment on the implementation of decisions on coal import, and the agreement provides for refund of the costs incurred in connection with this particular investment. Previously, there was no formal confirmation, so we established a provision of PLN 645 million. But now, once we have the confirmation that the cost would be refunded, income will be recognized in our accounts, because the contract says clearly that by the end of the quarter, we will get a refund resulting from the loss incurred in this trade. So I assume that by the end of this year, this provision will be dissolved in accordance with this agreement signed with the ministry.
So this is a matter that you raised on a number of occasions, and I think we can consider it as solved. At the same time, I would like to inform you that we are prepared with regard to coal for the upcoming season, just as we were in previous years, so there are no concerns that Poland might suffer from cold. We will fulfill our promises in that regard. That is it from me. Then you can come back to certain points in the Q&A session, and I hand over to Lechosław Rojewski, Vice President for Finance. Ladies and gentlemen, the details that you have already received in the press release, and I already know that some of your outlets have already published this information. I will try to provide you with some more details.
Traditionally, I will start with what happened in the national electrical energy system, because that translates into the results of the Polish Energy Group and the results of its individual segments. It also translates into the results of our group, as our company, as the mother company in the group. Let's have a look at the prices of energy in the third quarter, our debt, and our investments, and at the end, I will say a few words about the upcoming year, 2024, and what our outlook is regarding individual segments, which can expect a better growth, growth, and which are on the downward trend. So let me start with the situation in the national electrical energy system. As you can see in the slide, in the third quarter, the downward trend continued for the national consumption.
The national consumption dropped by 4% year-on-year. So we record here decreased efficiency of consumption. As for generation and well, with reference to the decline in generation by our generation segments, in the third quarter, the production dropped 8% year-on-year. And as a result, we saw an increased consumption of energy from renewable energy sources and increased imports of electrical energy net from abroad. In the third quarter and in the second quarter as well, by the way, Poland was the most expensive market in terms of sales price in the whole region. So the imports, compared to the third quarter, 2022, grew to 1.7 TWh. Let me remind you that in the period of 2022, it was as low as 0.21 TWh.
As for the structure of this generation and the elements contributing to the decline, lower generation on lignite and coal. When we refer to gas, here, there was a clear generation increase because the price of this raw material, this commodity, dropped, so profitability increased. Generation on gas became more profitable. Let me remind you that in the period of 2022, the price of this commodity was at 950 PLN per MWh, and in 2023, it was just 170 PLN per MWh. We also recorded in the national electrical energy system an increase in generation in PV plants, photovoltaic power plants.
At the end of the third quarter 2022, we had only 11.2 GW installed, and now in the same period, we have 4 GW more than back in 2022. If we move to prices in the market, you'll see that this is yet another quarter in 2023, where we recorded significant decreases in electrical energy prices. The price was at PLN 555 for contracts with deliveries for 2024. Let me mention that in the second quarter 2023, the price stood at PLN 630. So the trend is downward, and it continues. The same downward trend applied in the third quarter to commodity prices, that is natural gas and lignite.
In the third quarter, 2023, prices in ARA contracts for coal were at around $120-$130 per tonne. In turn, in the third quarter, 2022, these prices reached as much as $390 per tonne, so we record a significant decrease in prices of this commodity. The same goes for gas. The level is now EUR 50 per MWh, while in the similar period in the past, the prices were much higher. If we look at CO₂, the prices in the third quarter, 2023, oscillated around EUR 78-95 per tonne. Now, if we move on to our 4 segments, we will see a similar situation.
That is, the conditions so that I have just discussed referred to the national electrical energy system. We see a decrease in generation by 18% compared with a similar period, 2022.
So from 16 TWh in Q3 of 2022, down to 13 TWh in the third quarter of 2023, as I said. This is the generation from two sources, drop or decline in lignite by more than 20% and decline in coal of -10% year-on-year, contributed to all that. Now, what went up was, of the production or generation from gas by 111% due to the decline, raw material prices. Now, if we look at Q3 of 2023 in distribution, we would see, the increase in distributed electricity by 8%.
This is due to our takeover of the railway electricity, because if we put that segment aside, which, by the way, accounts for 1 TWh, we will see a decline by 3% in the individual distribution segments. First and foremost, this would be seen in Groups A and B, which are large and medium-sized enterprises. This is because of diversification of sources of electricity by those enterprises. Also, registration of new companies has declined in Q3 of 2023, 8.3% or less of corporations were registered. So, constantly less reception points compared to 2022. Now, when it comes to final consumer or end consumer sales, we also see the outcome of our takeover of railway power system by +0.3.
When we also deduct this takeover, we would see a decline of sales or in sales by 6%, especially when it comes to the corporate tariffs. As far as heat sales is concerned, that sales was dropped by 15%. This was mainly due to the ambient temperatures, which was by 1 degree higher than back in 2023, 2022 on average. Now, let's move to the financial indicators which contributed to our EBITDA. Q3 EBITDA accounted for PLN 2.4 billion, 122% year-on-year, only, or as much as 122%, whatever you like. Now, what contributed to EBITDA year-on-year was the increase in sales revenues on electricity and heat, because we see higher prices of energy, both sides, by 160 PLN per MWh.
However, this also translates into reducing the sales volume altogether. Now, the next thing to consider are the lower fuel prices. I'm not going to repeat the story of the fuel costs, because this is what I covered before. But the lower fuel prices mean an increase by PLN 0.3 billion and lower production from coal and lignite, and higher production from gas. The costs were impacted by the tCO₂ costs, because the price changed by PLN 126. But the drop in production of lignite led to a smaller volume of CO₂ that had to be covered. Let me remind you that the maximum price level from the regulations in 2023 was about PLN 693 per MWh for households, and PLN 785 for public entities and corporations or companies.
Please note that in August 2023, the prices were equalized down to the household prices. The write-off for the price differentiation found in 2023, due to the imposed limitations, accounted for PLN 1.1 billion. Most of that amount, PLN 96 million, related to the conventional power generation. In the same period, we also saw a lower result of sales to the end consumers by PLN 200 million. In Q3 of this year, a higher margin in distribution of PLN 392 million resulted from higher tariff rates. Please note that this outcome also consolidates the railway network, which accounts for PLN 300 million of rebounding from the EBITDA that we had forecast previously. So EBITDA in the railway system accounted for PLN 656 million, which was 50% of what we expected of what we accounted for.
So of the takeover of the railway power system has been a very significant point in the growth, in the growth structure of the company. In Q3, we have also, we also saw higher revenues, not only from electricity sales, but also from distribution, regulated system services. And if we look at the growth of the net profits in Q3, we see a significant growth in profits compared with the previous year, due to us all taking over the railway system and the share of this takeover and the net profits. The rest is reference to the base of 2022, and the change in the recultivation reserve of PLN 300 million. So these were the most important fundamental results. Now, if you see the reported EBITDA, please have a look at that.
There was a re-evaluation of the recultivation reserve, so this one-off event changed our reported EBITDA. Now, if we look at the investment outlays, please note that those expenditures year-on-year show a change of PLN 372 million, 25% that is, and the predominant segment here is distribution, where intense civil labor is conducted, including laying cables, modernizing the grid, and installing remotely controlled meters. Now, if you look at the investment outlays in the railway system, they account for PLN 375 million zloty, connected to with the program that railway power sector are conducting, namely the power supplies and building substations for this railway system.
In the case of low emissions sources, as the CEO has already indicated, that were expenditures related to building of units in Dolna Odra and units and modernization in other locations. In renewable sources, we had higher CapEx related to building offshore wind farms, expansion of PV farms, and modernization of hydro peak and reserve plants in Dębe and Porąbka-Żar. As regards cogeneration heat and heating, here, the main expenditures were incurred on new Czechnica and on transformation of this sector, and its transition from coal-based sources to gas-based sources.
As a result of those expenditures, and as a result of all our operations, you will see that our debt is not as good as it was at the end of 2022, but in the third quarter, 2023, our debt was only, net debt was only at PLN 1.5 billion. And if we also take into account the economic debt, taking into account CO₂, our debt is at PLN 18.5 billion. So if we look our debt ratios, with reference to net debt, it is at 0.17 debt-to-EBITDA ratio. And if we look at debt to other economic circumstances, it, the ratio is at two. And a few words about our outlook on conventional energy and heating.
We present here downward arrows, because the situation here depends on electrical energy prices and on the costs related to that. Besides, these sectors are linked to regulatory elements, so everything will hinge on the regulations that will appear in the market in 2024 regarding electricity prices. On the other hand, we do not expect a favorable development of prices in neighboring markets. Therefore, we also expect an increase in imports of electrical energy. And, thirdly, with regard to energy transformation, that is the process of shifting towards low emissions and no emissions energy sources. We want to increase the capacity and renewable energy sources, which should also drive prices down in the spot market.
Since June 2023, the president of the regulatory office sets tariffs, the rate and the tariffs for the upcoming 12 months. In the heating segment and cogeneration segment, some of those tariff rates have already been determined with a growth of about 2-2.5%. At the same time, I should stress here that in the context of the inflation, which you can see in the market, these are not satisfactory changes. If you consider renewable energies, here, our expectations are similar to those we had for 2023. Above all, utilization of the peak and pumped power plants, with increasing capacity in PV farms and photovoltaic and wind farms. Trade can also.
Three matters, not to disturb the current functioning and the current results of the sales and trade segment. Distribution is the key element where we see the development of our group. Here, we expect higher levels of WACC. We expect this WACC ratio—There were some questions about this, and you keep asking questions. We expect this to be at 10 plus additionally, premium for reinvestments. Because the distribution needs and requirements here for the development of this sector, above all, the cabling program, are very capital intense, and we need funds for development in this field. The same goes for railway energy. This should also be one of our key segments. And you need to consider the revenues from tariffs there, especially on distribution services.
We have already applied for including railway energy in the effective transformation charter, and that should help us improve WACC. Today, it is at 6, and we want to make it above 8, including the premium for reinvestments. Plant development, in particular, this investment program that we call MUSE, Musa. Here, we need funding to continue the program. These are our key segments, which should bring determined EBITDA in 2024. Thank you. Thank you very much.
That will be it as regards our presentations, and now we can move on to the Q&A session. Please raise your hand if you want to ask a question, and use a microphone.
Thank you, Bartłomiej Sawicki, Rzeczpospolita. If you allow me, I have a few questions. The first is about the coal prices.
In accordance with your report, the quarterly report, coal price after 9 months versus 9 months of last year increased by 85%. That's what it seems to me, your data say. So my question is, why do you have this leap increase in the prices? The second question is about increase in compensations. Contribution to the fund, PLN 4.7 billion, and compensations, PLN 5.5 billion. So if I understand, you get a positive result in this system, at least after 9 months. So my question is, how come you have this positive result? Because we've been told that energy was expected to contribute extra funds, and now it seems to be earning on this. And the third question regards the interpretation of the regulator on trade and energy.
The main question here is, does PGE think, and that's probably the most important matter, does PGE think that the tax on this compensation should be paid? This is the difference in interpretation, if I understand it correctly? And one more question about sales in the wholesale market, because according to your report, energy sales in the wholesale market dropped by 31% after nine months. And my question is, because this is something you don't mention in your report, what is going on in non-wholesale market? Increase, decrease, or what, in the context of the stock exchange obligations?
The real final, final question, what is about those, that frozen PGG strategy? Now, let me tackle the first question when it comes to the prices of coal and lignite. This is because of the price mix that results from the contracted coal and lignite from the, an imported coal from 2022. Those prices were significantly higher. It is quite obvious that we still see at still look at the higher still high volume of coal, and we are now buying at a new price. So when you put those two together, you will see the price that you can read right now. Right, I'd like to corroborate data that were reported, but let me rectify certain things.
It is not that we are in the black figures, because the compensation is spent on compensating for the losses and the distribution, the sales. But this write-off is about decreasing the margin that would have happened if the compensation had not been implemented. We can also add to that when it comes to the interpretation of the verdict by your president. This interpretation would necessitate just to pay a write-off from the compensation that is just for covering up the loss due to freezing the maximum prices that we actually invoiced our clients with, that are eligible. Also, the act of parliament was generated last year, but the interpretation of it is quite fresh, so time is of essence.
Now, when it comes to strategy, you've been following us on a daily basis, and we've been quite consistently in implementing our strategy from 2021. This refreshing of the strategy that we showcased in the autumn this year, that was, repealed due to the fact that, the coal and lignite asset process was not fully implemented. We must, we need, the culture, the transformation to keep the generation system in the Polish hands, the Polish price, the Polish property. Next question, please .
WysokieNapiecie.pl . Let me also drill down the coal avenue. You said that you secured 70% of volume. The remaining 30% will be imported, or what?
I mean, we secured 70% from the PGG, but we have other suppliers from Poland.
When it comes to the heat generation at the Sikors, we've been historically importing coal for that purpose, because this is what is most profitable. And about 70% that I referred to, this is PGG share. Well, okay, the PGG prices are very different than the ARA prices. And you report that on page 37 that you paid more than 900 PLN per ton, which is dramatic. We have never disclosed our trade secrets and the agreements with our partners. And the new agreement is satisfactory for both prices, and this agreement will be based on market prices. We've never disclosed the prices, and I am not going to corroborate the price. We show not only the raw material costs in the report, but also that includes the logistics costs, including transport and so on.
But if you deduct that, you will end up with more than 700. But transportation is a very significant cost, especially after the pandemic and the war, the cargo prices went up. And, these costs are a very significant component of the price, total price.
So when will you end showing, the cost of imported coal? When, when are you going to, to burn it entirely?
That's not much left to burn. I believe that we're going to finish it off in the season. So for Q4, this is going to be only the domestic coal. Well, well, the, the season ends in April. Unless, the climatic conditions change. We, look at the season as something that ends in April.
Okay, given the prices, what is the profitability of power generation from coal?
What impact the implementation of the URE proposals maybe are going to appeal this decision? Because I think this is detrimental to your finance.
Not yet. You asked profitability of the coal generation. We contract usually by addressing our variable costs. If we're going to produce from coal, we take into account the price of coal plus CO2 costs, and for lignite, it's only CO2 almost, so we want to actually address a profitable margin. But you really have not paid you for. Or they have paid for reallocation of generation, but they are going to stop it. Are you going to appeal this decision? Oh, it's not decided that I want to stop paying. I think the instructions amendment has been already decided upon. It's all right. If so, then we will probably consider appealing.
Understood. Right.
Thank you very much for the time being.
Thank you, editor. Next person,
Bloomberg News. I have two questions. Firstly, I'd like to ask about that offshore project. Worldwide, and the community of European developers and turbine manufacturers, saw your partner, Ørsted, going to rough seas. Did you receive any signals from Ørsted that they could possibly withdraw from that investment project? Secondly, what is your take on the profitability of that project, and when can we expect you putting the financing scheme together? And second question is about URE. What's your take on the further development of this interpretation conflict? What's going to happen down the line? What may be the outcome of it? What the next step can be? What is your forecast of it ending? Are you going to build reserves for this area?
So let me start with offshore.
We are looking closely at the market situation worldwide, and our partner has not reported yet any difficulties or doubts about the further implementation of the Baltica project, so we assume that the situation will be unchanged. The situation in the market is difficult, and services and production as well.
Our partners, both Siemens, who will provide turbines, and Ørsted, who is our business partner, have not expressed any doubts or concerns about lack of possibility to complete the project. As regards funding, the decision will be made after FID, and we expect this to be approved in the second quarter, third quarter at the latest next year. Okay, I will refer to the funding. We continue our project finance activities, so we've had some reconnaissance in the market. We have a few advisors on the topic of funding. We have advisors specializing in technical aspects of funding and banks. We had a few banks that expressed interest in providing us with financing. So, basically, you know, the value of the funds they offered is twice as much as we need.
So in this regard, we do not see any problems in obtaining the funding. And as for profitability, inflation drove up prices of materials, and still, profitability is at a satisfactory level. As for the president of the Energy Regulatory Authority, well, let me button here. Operationally, the assumption of the payment out of the price differentiation fund was to cover the loss. So how can you pay a tax on income that was supposed to cover the loss? Just, let's be just logical.. Even if we pay this tax, there is some loss. That was not the assumption. The idea was not to leave us formally with a loss. We don't want to have a loss, either on operations or on paid tax. That would undermine the whole idea of the project.
This payment is supposed to cover the loss we have incurred, so I do not expect such an interpretation to be upheld. Frankly speaking, I have not discussed this specific topic with the president of the Energy Regulatory Authority. We have received some guidance on this, but maybe that was some sort of overinterpretation of a certain point. If we were to pay a tax on this, we would be formally left with a loss, and this is something we are not going to accept. So if anything like this happens, we will intervene. We will step in very sharply. My point is, whether you have formally talked, for example, to your auditor, because that is the official interpretation of the Energy Regulatory Authority, so this is- No, no. As of now, this is just press reports.
No, this is interpretation. This is mass release from the regulatory authority. Yes, but we have not, we, as a company, have not received yet any such release to give us the basis for any conversation with our auditor. We can only talk with the auditor if we physically get an official document, then we will address it. I do not expect. Frankly speaking, it would be illogical, because we would be left with a loss coming from the tax. So I think it will not be upheld. But that might be linked to some inspection, and you have not started any inspection. We are open to any inspection. We admit any inspectors, and each inspection is something that we treat as an opportunity to improve our operations. We have always admitted all representatives of state agencies.
We are not afraid of any inspections. We even appreciate inspections very much because, recommendations from those inspections, often give us some indication how we can improve our operations. But no inspection, that has been carried out in, Polska Grupa Energetyczna, at least in our term of office, has ever, found out any irregularities in our activities. There were just minor points about recommended changes, so it was more advice, for possible improvement in certain areas, rather than any hard conclusions since we have been here, that is four years.
Maciej Pawlak, Gazeta Polska. In the core financial data, you don't include, data on net and gross, income. You had profit, you had EBITDA. Did you show your revenues?
Have a look, have a look at our financial statement. You will get all, numbers there.
Barbara Olsinska, Business Insider, Poland.
I have a question about the idea of the new parliamentary majority to exclude distribution companies from energy conglomerates. I'm interested what you think about it. Do you think it is a good idea, or is it a completely misguided suggestion?
You know my opinion. The idea of setting off coal assets and leaving in the group's distribution and renewable energy sources was intended to enhance the position of energy companies. And setting off such profitable activity as distribution, separating distribution from energy groups, would mean that little would be left in those groups. That would weaken Polish energy sector, and that would weaken the energy groups.
There are various ideas that are more in the public space, but I think this would not be a good idea in terms of building strong and robust energy companies in Poland in the future. Of course, there can be a lot of ideas in the future. We think that in order to strengthen Polish energy, it would be better to consolidate rather than to disperse the sector by setting off additional sectors. So, setting off this area would mean that only heating and renewable energy sources are left, and that would weaken the position of energy groups in the company in the country.
While today we need to build strong energy companies if we want to compete in the market and if we want to keep the energy sector in the Polish hand. Setting off the coal assets, and that's it, then consolidation rather than setting off more areas.
Bartłomiej Sawicki? I would like to continue on the point regarding the interpretation of the regulator. It is not just the interpretation of the energy regulatory authorities document. We talked to one of the authors of this document, and this and this—excuse me for interrupting. I do not follow all articles and all opinions that are published in the press. We are against this interpretation, and we will—please take it as my message.
In my opinion, it is illogical and against the assumptions of the entire project. The project was supposed to cover our loss rather than burden us with an additional income, at least in the form of corporate income tax. If I understand this interpretation well, this is a tax on the compensation that you got for the profit, which you might have hypothetically obtained, had it had been for the frozen price. It is equalization of our price stated in the tariff. We are not talking about any profit. Compensation is the difference between tariff price and the maximum price resulting from the previous year's tariff. The minister talked about market price that, as a trade company, you contracted with your customer. That's the second element outside the G Tariff.
Yes, but we have not invoiced those customers for the amounts you mentioned, but for the maximum amounts that resulted from legal regulations. 75 and 690. So you did not contract your customers about the cost of energy acquisition, above the tariff, so above 150 PLN, 1,050 PLN. 100, 1,100. By definition, that was not impossible.
This was the only legal amount that we could invoice the clients with.
BiznesAlert.pl. I'd like to ask two questions. Firstly, when do you expect this agreement with Polimex to be resolved? After the elections, many new voices appeared on the revision of the reform. The president said that the process has been completed fully, so if there are a change in assumptions, how will that affect companies like PGE?
Well, putting aside the coal assets is indispensable for the companies to grow. No doubt about that anymore. Those of you who are interested in the energy sector know about this. This is nothing extraordinary. This process has been completed in Western Europe a couple of years ago. All major corporations in Germany, France, and the Nordic countries have went down this road, have gone down this road.
That's how those companies continue to grow. So when we speak about stopping of the connection of the assets will be a grievous mistake. All projects incorporate modifications, though I have no knowledge about those amendment ideas, but the general direction should be continued in order to strengthen the Polish power sector. If we let this overarching objective go, we could, for example, divest the Polish generation system into foreign hands. Since we have a big threat from the East, we cannot afford giving away this big strategic sector. But these are not our decisions to be made, but it will be the parliament who will be made responsible for that. But we believe that non-divesting coal assets would lead to the decrease in Polish energy security. As far as Polimex is concerned, we are quite optimistic.
We know the company, we know each other, and we value each other and like each other. We are, as I said, a stakeholder in Polimex. So as you see, historically, Polimex has been our major contractor for construction industry. This is the only Polish company left that is operating, still operating on the market, and we are happy that they could grow and prosper in the past. So I'm quite sure that we will reach an agreement. It will be nonsensical if we fail to achieve an agreement, especially being a, like, co-owner of the company, a stakeholder in it. So I believe that the Polimex's management and also ours, have all the goodwill that is needed to strike a deal. I hope that it will be accomplished as it was many times in the past. So the discussions continue, and.
An agreement will allow Polimex to continue various efforts. We don't want to be under the dictatorship of, foreign companies. I don't mean by this, that foreign companies are bad, but I believe that competition is very important for all of us, and we, believe that a large company, construction company, and the Polish company is, worthwhile in the market. Now, regarding the out payment, you are going to pay as if this interpretation had never existed. And if you demands that you actually, equalize this difference, then yes, we are going to think about the next steps, only then. That revenue was at the level of PLN 21.2 billion, 2023 for Q1.
So it is an increase in by 11% and accumulated at PLN 7 billion-PLN 1 billion, and the results, the resulting, growth of, I think 70%, then that does it. Okay, the ETC market? In my opinion, this is a commercial secret, so we never comment the percentage of electricity and heat or energy, where we sell and to whom. In total numbers, yes, but we never comment on details of the markets. And the final question, Bartłomiej, please.
Thank you. Let me ask you about the nuclear project and collaboration schemes. Back in March, we spoke about, establishing a company, vehicle with ZE PAK, if we can see ZE PAK. And this company is supposed to be established by the end of the year. Are there any chances for that?
What is the status of the discussions with the Koreans about giving 49% of this vehicle to the Koreans?
The project has been developing as planned. We asked, we applied for the fundamental decision, and we are looking forward to receiving that decision. The discussions with Koreans are well advanced. We have been conducting in-depth discussions on assigning or commissioning, rather, the feasibility study. The initial analyses have been commissioned. We are just past the electoral campaign. It is governed by certain rules, and we are looking forward to a new government being established by the new parliament. So the Korean side, that is what I presume, have been also watching closely the political scene in Poland as this is a major project, so everybody's waiting for the new government to be formed.
So I can assure you only that the process has been going very swiftly, especially compared with the project that has more than a decade of a lifetime, and how much time was wasted by reaching this moment on the previous project. But the Korean side has supported the will to continue the project, ZE PAK too, PGE is in part and parcel of the project. This project is absolutely crucial for the energy security of Poland, as is the second project together with the Americans. You are an industrial journalist, so I believe that we all have concluded that nuclear energy is absolutely indispensable for Poland, if we want to depart from coal, and if we want to still maintain control of the Polish energy industry, without importing all of that from outside, the nuclear part is absolutely necessary.
We need to have nuclear power plants because we are not going to run coal-fired power plants for the next 40 years, and I think we can agree on that together.
Thank you very much, Mr. President. This concludes our conference. Thank you for all the questions. We're going to address the emailed questions by email, and thank you for coming. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. See you next time.