Pkp Cargo S.A. (WSE:PKP)
Poland flag Poland · Delayed Price · Currency is PLN
14.27
+0.07 (0.49%)
Apr 30, 2026, 5:00 PM CET
← View all transcripts

Earnings Call: Q2 2022

Aug 26, 2022

Krzysztof Łoś
Spokesperson, PKP Cargo

I think you can hear me now. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. It's a great pleasure for me to welcome you to the meeting on the results of H1 2022 of PKP Cargo. I'd like to welcome all of you who've joined us in person, as well as those of you who are participating through webcast. The management board members will be running today's meeting. Dariusz Seliga, the CEO. Mr. Maciej Jankiewicz, who's the CFO. Mr. Marek Olkiewicz, who is responsible for operating operations. We have Mr. Jacek Rutkowski, who's responsible for commercial matters. We have Zenon Kozendra, who's actually responsible for employee affairs. My name is Krzysztof Łoś and I'm an employee of PKP Cargo. After the CEO and the members of the management board make the presentation, we plan for a Q&A session.

You can submit your questions to our email address, but I'll go ahead and give the floor now to the CEO.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, today it's my honor to meet you. Above all, I'd like to thank you for your physical presence. This is a great boon, great help to us that you haven't abandoned us. Sometimes our path is more difficult, sometimes it's easier to follow, but we can accompany one another in the hope of what we're doing here at PKP Cargo for the safety of our country and how we participate in the overall logistics supply chain. I'd like to thank you. Thank all of you who hold our shares, as well as those of you who observe us and will pose questions online. I'd like to thank the journalists who are here with us.

You support us in your words about our operations. We're returning to holding regular meetings with you, which were somehow restricted during the COVID period, so we'll have quarterly meetings. We'll talk about all of the pros and cons, the advantages and disadvantages that we encounter in our operations. Your questions will help us. I'd like to say a few more words about us as a management team. Sometimes you can hear people's names, and over the years, the management composition has changed, and it's worthwhile for you to know who you can count on and who I can count on as the CEO. It's my great pleasure and honor to head up this team. Perhaps I'll begin with Zenon Kozendra. He's a man, a management board member, a person.

He was elected by the staff, so it's a little bit odd for me to stand behind the table. He's a veteran. He's been in the management teams for many, many years, and this is work that should not be over appreciated. We know that people are the most important in our organization, and Zenon is doing his work modestly. He has a difficult role to play because he has to be the linking pin between the staff and what we need as a management team. I'd like to thank you, Zenon, for your cooperation. Sometimes our work is a little stormy, sometimes it's a little more genteel, but I think we're all counting on doing what's the best for the company. I'd like to thank you very much for your many years of work.

We do appreciate your work. It's the work of an ant, but it's very important because it pertains to people who work in organization. We have Jacek Rutkowski, our commercial operations gentleman. He's perhaps not changing the sales structure, but he's changing the value and the prices of our offering. He has a lot of experience. He previously was the CEO of PKP CARGOTOR, and he's a person who's passionate about the rail industry. I'm sorry for standing sideways to you. We have our CFO. This is a gentleman from the post. He's a colorful person, and he's built a team with the great foundations. I'm sure that we will treat finance with a lot of accuracy and honesty and for you to have knowledge that's worthwhile to bet on us. At the very end, I have my friend.

It's like, just as if we had bought Lewandowski to join us in Futbol Club Barcelona. He's responsible for 80% of the operations in this company. All of the questions you're gonna pose about the reorganization, restructuring, how we wanna run the company, where we wanna be, and how we can identify savings. Sometimes we're just support for Marek and what's happening in his department, his colonels, his directors. He needs to have a contribution. As you know, we're responsible for, you know, hauling coal. I'd like to thank my colleagues for the last 4 months of work. Then me, for some 7 years, I've been working with the rail industry, previously in politics. Sometimes we say it's bad for a politician to come into the business world, and so I can tell you that it is possible.

You can say that I'm on the hottest seat, 'cause when we start talking about the hauling of coal, and the winter is coming up, so I can assure you that we're not gonna take any prisoners. We understand this is a ticket in one direction. We will make sure that Poles will not be freezing during the winter period, and the coal will arrive. This is just a little bit of a preparatory statement for you to know who you're dealing with. We have a path, each one of us individually, that we've followed in the path. We have something to lose, and so this is our responsibility to you. We would not like to disappoint or disenchant you. That's why this is basically a great honor and a coronation of our careers to head up this company.

Maybe it's in a difficult period, maybe it's in a more easier period. It's always possible to find some sort of explanation. Despite the incredible tragedy that's happening during the war in Ukraine and what's happening with energy carriers, and the energy sector, all of this is very demanding and difficult. We hope that for the PKP Cargo, this will be an opportunity. Perhaps if you'll allow me, I'll sit down. I'd like to thank our employees, our directors, the management who have been part of this company for a long time, long before we joined the company. I'd like to thank our daughter companies like PKP CARGOTABOR, PKP CARGOTOR, PKP CARGO TERMINALE, PKP CARGO SERVICE, PKP CARGO CONNECT. I think I mentioned everybody. I mentioned service. Thank you, Jacek Rutkowski. We appreciate the work done by people.

Since you're gonna distribute this data and information further, we'd like to thank all of our employees who, as we're running this conference, are doing their work, are making sure that the supply chain, the logistics are working. When it rains, when it's sunny, they grapple with different weather conditions. Basically, they have to, from end to end, through all of the business units, through the ports. We have a great faith in the human capital. You know, we're a company that nothing could happen without people, 'cause people are the greatest value of this company, and we're totally confident and have full belief in our staff. We want to make sure that people are happy with their job, for them to be satisfied, and for them to identify with this company. Green energy is a great opportunity.

In terms of transport, you know, train tracks, trains, electric trains basically are a truly green source of transport because of the very limited CO2 emissions. I just wanted to give you this opportunity and give you some color as we move into the Q&A session and after we wrap up. We'll be speaking behind the scenes. I wanted you to know who you're dealing with and who is responsible for which areas. We also have directors in our department who are here. They'll support us in responding to questions to make sure that we can give the best possible questions and satisfy you. I can promise you one thing as the CEO, that we'll provide you with accurate and honest information, enabling you to prepare your own opinion about the brand, about the nature of the work we do as a company.

Now, if you'll allow me, ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to go on to the results of our company. Later, we'll go on to the Q&A session. There are no difficult questions. I understand that your questions are being asked in order to be able to draw conclusions. Perhaps there are things you see that we don't see from the management position. We understand the role played by journalists and people from the stock exchange, investors, and so different people from different walks of life will pose questions to help us run this company as best as possible. You can take the microphone. I'm sorry. I prefer to keep this microphone. Now we'll go on to the first slide. I'll start with the financial and operating highlights for H1 2022.

If we look at freight turnover, it's 40.5%. That's our market share. It's quite stable. Even though there was a slight decline. This is based on the data from the UTK. On a year-on-year basis, if we look at the volume, it was up by some 9%. At present, we have an active license for carriage. 116 entities are operators, and we're the largest carrier. We are carrier, we're the leader here. In terms of freight volume, we have a decline, which is symbolic of 0.2 percentage points to 37.9%. We've improved the financial results. They're up by some 20% to PLN 2.4 billion.

We have EBITDA of PLN 372 million, which is up 64% year-on-year over last year. The net result, even though it's still negative, is higher by PLN 87 million than it was a year ago. We've had a profit for the first time since 2017. This is despite higher prices for energy and fuel, and we had higher salaries for the staff and the trade unions. We increased CapEx by 17% to PLN 379 million. I wanna tell you how important human capital is. One of the first decisions we made as a management board was to have negotiations with the trade unions, and this has enabled us to have a joint point of view with the staff, with the social side, trade unions.

Ladies and gentlemen, if we look at the market share of our group, it was 37.9% in terms of freight volume and 40.5% in terms of freight turnover. We maintained a strong position on the market, because we grew both volume, freight volume as well as freight turnover. Over the six months, we grew our market share for the first five months of the year by some 7%. At the end of the day, it turned out that the growth rate amongst the competition was a little bit higher, and as a result, we lost a little bit of traction in the full six-month period. In the first half of 2022, we had 36.1% and 39.9% for PKP Cargo last time.

If we look now at hard coal, this is a topic where perhaps many questions will be posed. This is linked to the energy security of Poles. It represents more than 40% of the freight volume and more than 30% of the freight turnover. All events on this market are of great importance to PKP Cargo, and there's no shortage of those events in recent months. The events are. Let me point out. As a result of the war, there's a ban on imports and transits of coal as well as coke from the Russian Federation and Belarus. We have the planned expansion of transport for the PGE Paliwa and Węglokoks companies up till June 2023 of additional 5 tons.

We have more demand for hard coal and so strong growth in the prices, and then the expansion of the logistics chain on new directions of distribution as well as a reversal in terms of the energy mix, the domestic energy mix. We have another important area which are aggregates and construction materials. There's a strong correlation here between the economy and what's happening here. We've had governmental programs in terms of building roads as well as the rail expansion program. We can say that the construction and assembly production is up by some 12%, whereas if we look at the New Silk Road, it's up by some 50%, and this has grown to a pretty major figure.

Having in mind the strategic nature of intermodal transport, I want to say a few more words about that. Because of the outbreak of the war in Ukraine and trade restrictions that were implemented by China because of zero-COVID, we can say that we lost some 50% of our co-haulage along the New Silk Road. The intermodal transport has fallen by less than 1% year-on-year as a result of finding new directions, new paths, new avenues. If we look at the haulage structure, we can talk about the increase of freight turnover in terms of construction materials by some 16%. We had also metals and ores. There's only one area in which we had a decline, that was chemical products. I know the company called Grupa Azoty is reducing production.

We're basically prepared for that in terms of chemicals, but there could be a decline here. I think we can go on to the next slide. If we look at CapEx, if we talk about the source of our revenue, we should also talk about where we're spending the money we earn. We're looking at wagon repairs. We're purchasing, repairing, and doing inspections. We spent some PLN 53 million more than we did last year. This was some PLN 287 million. We have 54,103 wagons and 1,722 locomotives.

If we look at the costs, I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that even though the macroeconomics are challenging, if we look at our unit revenues, basically, they're up by some 11.7% as opposed to the costs measured over 1,000 kilometers. This is, you know, a difference of 11.7% up. That was the revenue side. If you look at the cost side, it's up by 4.7% with respect to thousands of kilometers. We have a higher volume of transport. We're talking about the energy, traction, fuel, which is almost entirely responsible for the increase in unit costs. If we look at the costs of energy, fuels, and salaries, we do see some increase.

We can say that this increase of energy cost and traction fuel cost is up by 46%. We prefer, we think that this will continue as opposed to reverse. We have also salaries according to the principles of employee dialogue, and we informed you about this in the various current reports. We implemented a salary increase. Of course, this pay increase, pay raise will affect the results in H2. We believe that the total cost in the second half of the year will be around PLN 80 million. In parallel, we are optimizing headcount and to a limited extent, we're filling in vacancies with new employees, and this is something that will reduce costs.

Over the last five years, the headcount in the group has dropped by 3,300 persons, which is a decrease of some 14%. Ladies and gentlemen, the two categories we talked about just now. The cost of energy and fuel as well as the cost of salaries, they have grown, but they are also pretty major cost drivers. We can say that the depreciation is up because of our investments with respect to repairs of wagons, and higher cost of services is linked to reclamation as well as you know, the real estate used for rolling stock. We can say the increase of costs of fuel and energy make everything else more expensive.

Even though we've made a lot of progress on the revenue side, and we've done a lot to control our costs, our financial efficiency ratios are still unsatisfactory, and so our net margin and ROE are continue to be negative. I'm saying this with sorrow because negative financial results means that we have to do more to manage the liquidity of the company. Over the last six months, we can say that we had a decline by PLN 168 million in terms of cash flow if we take into consideration FX translation. We spent PLN 467 million by purchasing assets. At the same time, we sold non-financial current assets for PLN 33 million. We also had depreciation for last year's investments, and so we had the negative net working capital change.

As a result of interest rates changing, we had thirty. We're paying down loans and borrowings along with interest that we had taken up previously. We took out new loans for PLN 169 million, and we received subsidies for PLN 63 million, but we paid down loans, leasings, and interest for PLN 262 million. If we look at the capital structure and the available sources of financing, we can look at things that are above 1%, and we see some declines. We're utilizing the available sources of financing. There's PLN 359 million. We have our own cash and PLN 246.6 million. These are available lines of credit and leasing lines. We also have PLN 100 million from BGK, PLN 99.2 million from PKO BP.

We have cash of PLN 113 million. We're able to pay our liabilities. Ladies and gentlemen, in terms of the future, what we'd like. How we'd like to overcome these difficulties and the issues we're facing and will face as we manage the overall group. In the commercial area, we want to strengthen the quality of customer service. We're looking for new freight volume. We wanna develop our commercial offering and expand our terminals. If we look at the operations area, we wanna make sure that our resources are in line with the market requirements. We want to optimize freight processes. We want to optimize the process of how our traction teams are working. The word optimization is very critical to us.

We're gonna look for the most creative and best solutions in order to finance the overall company, because the operations area, as you know, generates costs and profits. We're going to do a lot of work on optimization. If we look at finance area, we wanna balance our CapEx with the generation of financial results. We want to improve cash flow, and we wanna reinvest from non-working assets in the group. We'd like to divest from non-core assets. We are gonna look for new solutions. We have a few on the table, and we'll do what we can to pursue that direction of thought. If you think about growth development, we're working on devising a new strategy for PKP Cargo. We would like. We know what the reality is today.

There are strategies that we're prepared, and after a few years and months, they are no longer aligned to what's happening, especially having in mind what's going on in Ukraine. We'd like to strengthen our position here in Europe. The North-South Corridor, we'd like to be an international logistics group using human capital and our international capital. We have companies in Slovakia, Czech, Slovenia, Hungary. We'd like to be a predominant entity. That will take over these markets and will find its place in these domestic markets, and that's why we're training our train drivers for them to have licenses, for them to be able to work without any limitation. As I recap, and before you go on to any questions you may have, I'd like to say what I mentioned at the beginning. Today, the priority is energy security of Poles.

Coal is the source of energy security. You see what's happening in the media. We have a listed company with business operations. We're fair, and we are aware of the responsibility we have to the shareholders, but we're a key player in the logistics chain for the energy sector, and we're responsible for ensuring that there's not gonna be a loss or a lack of coal. We need to be able to deliver it where it's needed. There is seasonality, of course, here. This will be linked to the months that will be very intensive prior to the winter period. I wanna communicate very clearly to our partners, our commercial partners, that we will not leave you. We're together. We're working together. We wanna cooperate with you.

We know that if we're going to prove our mettle here when this is a more difficult period for you. Sometimes, perhaps we're not gonna be able to do everything. We want to undertake these tasks to ensure that we can do everything without any blemish on our record. We don't wanna leave our customers to their own devices. We have tasks, assignments, governmental tasks. We wanna make sure that we're gonna be able to do, and perhaps there'll be some questions to Mr. Olkiewicz on this subject. We want to be able to do and discharge our duties, the duties imposed upon us by the Polish government. We wanna cooperate with our customers. Coal will be in place for a certain period of time. There was a strategy of closing down mines.

Marek Olkiewicz
Member of the Management Board, Operations, PKP Cargo

PKP Cargo didn't really know what it should do with these, coal carriers. Now, it turns out that we need these coal carriers, the mines are needed again. As a management team and as the overall group, PKP Cargo, we want to assure our customers that we won't leave you alone. We're a reliable partner, and even if we may encounter some difficulties, we'll communicate those problems to you as we speak to you as partners, and we'll solve those problems together. It's not the case that we're bound by a contract and nothing more. We have long-term relationships, and our customers know that they can develop their businesses based on relations with us.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

We're well abreast of this responsibility that we need to make sure that there's no shortage of coal in the winter for people who are using it in their boiler plants or in their homes. We're gonna be able to work together with our partners 'cause this tough period is more difficult for everybody. Energy prices, gas prices, inflation, you know all this. I don't need to reiterate that. I just wanted to underscore that once again. We do not want to destabilize the market at all, nor will we hide in a corner. I wanna speak with total responsibility. We have instructions from the Prime Minister or a regulation, which means that we have, above all, to distribute coal. We're not going to hide away from that or flee from that. We're aware of the processes we have to follow.

Well, we want our customers to stick with us. As I mentioned, we're gonna solve these problems on an ongoing basis as we've been doing up until now, and I'm pretty sure that we're gonna be able to find a good way out from difficult situations. Before we open up to the Q&A, I'd like to thank you for joining us. This is a sign of the hope that you are here with us as PKP Cargo, you as journalists and as investors. We wanna work with you and for you. We don't wanna disappoint you, and that's why we're going to return to this quarterly communication schedule. We'll provide you with reliable information, even if this is gonna be quite difficult for us. I want you to have a clear situation of what's happening in the group, what we wanna do.

I want you to be aware that sometimes we have more difficult decisions to make. We wanted to let you know what this involves, and this can only be done in a feeling of partnership, in a partnership relationship. I'd like to thank you for spending your time, for listening to us, and I wouldn't want you to think that here's just another management team that showed up, was here for a short period, and didn't leave anything behind. We can promise you that we're gonna work very hard and arduously. I'll give the floor back to the director, 'cause we can open up for the Q&A.

Once again, I'd like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for the time that you're spending with this, from the bottom of my heart, all of the management board members, as well as the employees. When you write to us, when you talk to us about the work, and sometimes people don't see the hard work we're doing, the work of ants we're doing, sometimes it's not always visible. This also affects what's the share price, how we can talk with the employees, and that's why we want to be as close as possible to you. In this feeling of mutual trust, we want to build the future of PKP Cargo. Cargo is the future. There's nothing better than riding down the tracks. My colleague here, Mr. Olkiewicz can talk about that.

There's no less expensive transport. There's no better transport, means of transport. No more environmentally friendly means of transport when we think about ecology. We're changing and morphing PKP Cargo, having in mind the previous generations and previous management boards. It's not the case that we are the first management board to have any ideas. We tap into those things that are best. We wanna utilize historical things 'cause we've had good managers, good directors, great employees. We have wonderful employees, please believe us. Please buy our shares, 'cause it's worthwhile to buy our shares, 'cause cargo is the future. This is one of the reasons the Prime Minister issued this regulation, seeing us as a company that can handle the energy-related work.

This is, on one hand, a great duty, but at the same time, it's a great honor for us to be able to deal with this. Ladies and gentlemen, as Mr. Olkiewicz says, so when you work in the rail industry, you have to do everything step by step. We'll start with questions from people who are present in the room, and you can go ahead and pose your questions now at this time, utilizing the microphone.

Speaker 10

I'm from Trigon Brokerage House. In terms of the energy challenges, so the costs of energy and your contract with PKP Energetyka, it was signed in 2020, and energy was for 250 megawatts. It's gonna come to an end this year. What's your opinion on prices for this contract in the upcoming period?

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

Thank you very much for this question. This is an important question, and we frequently think about that. We have statements that energy prices will continue moving upwards, and this will be a burden for us. Based on what I know, in Czech Republic, for example, one of the daughter companies, Energetyka should move up by four times. This is a topic that's close to our heart. We're talking about it quite frequently, and the question is, how can you grapple with this? Give the floor to Marek. We're a team. It's not the case that only the CEO can speak. We're going to work with one another. We work together, so we have an understanding. Sometimes with management teams, things vary. Please understand that we're going to interrupt one another and let others speak. Please, accept that we're very open people, so Marek will take the floor.

Marek Olkiewicz
Member of the Management Board, Operations, PKP Cargo

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. I think you can hear me. This topic of costs of energy consumption in PKP Cargo, this is a tough topic. In March, we looked at the negotiations with PKP Energetyka in terms of ongoing cooperation, signing contracts, and this topic is quite difficult. I can tell you frankly, we're still in the process of negotiation, negotiating a formula, the quantity, the duration of the contract, and in particular, the conditions of the agreement. We don't have to tell you too much about what's happening on the power market, energy market. It's a very difficult and demanding time to sign contracts of this sort. We're reckoning with the energy price moving up radically. So PKP Energetyka has prepared a draft contract for the purchase of energy. There's still quite a bit to do.

We would not conceal that we're consulting with other companies belonging to the state treasury that utilize energy, and we're working to achieve the best price and the best conditions and the best possible term, payment terms. I can't say too much 'cause we're in the middle of negotiations, and we would betray our tactics of how to run our negotiations. We will have electricity where we can to utilize electricity, but the price and the formula are still in the works. Perhaps we'll be able to speak to that subject when we have the contract, a good contract negotiated. Please forgive me that I don't want to disclose the details because I can't. We're a listed company, plus we have negotiations underway, so I can assure you we will sign a contract and we will have energy.

Maciej Jankiewicz
CFO, PKP Cargo

You'll have to forgive me, but at this stage, we can't divulge the prices. These are very difficult negotiations 'cause the price offer was submitted three weeks ago, perhaps, so you can understand how much work we have to do. I think we're gradually moving towards the finish line, and we'll tell you what it looks like once we've signed the contract. As you can see, we would ask you to understand this. This is our first time that we all are appearing here, and I'm fully impressed with how Marek responded as a diplomat. Until the very end, people are gonna keep prices close to their heart to see what the market will give you. The prices will be in the works until the very end. This is not a convenient situation.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

We'd like to know how we're supposed to plan, but these negotiations will occupy us until the very last moment. This is the case. If you look at border crossings, we see that in multiple negotiation processes. Sometimes we extend negotiations. How much we're gonna pay to somebody in the logistics chain. I would like for the situation to be clear for us to be able to design things and work on a situation that will be in existence. The same situation will be in existence in several months from today. I think negotiations will last until the very last day. We have a full awareness of how much energy we're buying, how much energy we need, and we have to negotiate the best possible price for the group.

This awareness is very, very much in the forefront of our minds, and that's why Marek has had his hair turning gray. Well, this is 15% of your revenue, so the price will probably go up by two or three times. If you wanted to maintain your EBIT margin, should we anticipate that you're gonna try to offset the high cost? Are you gonna ask the government for some sort of subsidies, or are you gonna pass on those costs? Are systemic subsidies being considered? Well, we're aware that this is the situation, but as you know, we're a listed company, so government aid, of course, will sign contracts with our partners, but government aid could be considered to be public aid.

Our competition received EUR 550 million of subsidies, and now they received EUR 215 million. How? Because of the war. As a large group, how are we gonna compete? We're doing what we can. We have a big difficulty 'cause we're a large company, and we, as a management board, we're responsible for 24,000 employees and their families. Energy prices will be a major asset that we're gonna have to deal with. To speak honestly, I can't say that we can transpose everything on to customers 'cause we don't wanna scare customers away. We want to work together, and this will be done on a common sense basis. The fact that we received instructions from the Prime Minister to haul coal, and we're gonna use that disposition or that order given by the Prime Minister.

It's not only the case, we're thinking about indemnification. Clients are very important to us, customers are very important to us, and we wanna do everything we can in full symbiosis with customers. Thank you very much for this question. It's a difficult question. I didn't really want you to frame it this way, but the question has to be there, I guess. We really are looking for a response to that customer. We know how much energy is gonna cost. We understand what percentage of our budget is. We can tell you quite honestly today, we don't know how much it's gonna cost, but I don't think anybody knows in Poland. This is something that we're going to deal with. I'll come back to my assurance from the beginning of the meeting. We're gonna inform you regularly. We're gonna have these regular meetings.

We want you to participate in these meetings. We want you to accompany us in our path towards the future hope of PKP Cargo. I can assure you that even if things are gonna be very difficult, then we'll continue to talk with you. Go ahead. You can add something if you'd like. Yeah. In terms of what Dariusz Seliga said, we know that's gonna be a big cost. We know it's gonna cost us dearly, but we're taking efforts in the company to mitigate that. Where the energy to the rate, to the fee, we want that relationship to be lower. We're talking about when I talk about the fee, I have in mind the carriage fee, the freight transport fee. We want to organize the work in such a way in terms of the selection of locomotives, where they're located.

We have a big project that we're starting. We want to have energy meters in our locomotives installed. We have a savings program in mind for non-traction energy. We're participating in all of these modern initiatives for fuels, so green energy. We're doing everything that we can to participate in these programs. As Dariusz said, we're going to minimize the share of energy to ensure that our customers, our business partners, don't have to feel so strongly the brunt of the energy price increase. The cost of energy is around 13%. This is a significant element, and that's why we attach such great importance to it. We have energy for 2022. These negotiations are for 2023.

The contracts we're negotiating with these players, well, people are way aware that in terms of our contracts with clients, we're gonna have to talk with our customers, go back to them and try to discuss how we see things. Let me put it this way. Our customers know that even though contracts have been signed, we want to have a certain amount of flexibility, a flexible approach in terms of how these costs are incorporated. That's how I would wrap up the subject about energy. I know that some of your companies or contracts with state-owned companies are for two to three years. Are these contracts that will be refreshed or is there some sort of price formula that cost energy is transposed? I'll give the floor to Mr. Rutkowski, who is responsible for building these contracts, and he negotiates with people.

I think Jacek is the closest to what's happening with these contracts. If, Jacek, you may go ahead and take over. Most of the contracts come to an end this year. There's a small number of these contracts that will last or survive into next year. In terms of revaluation of these contracts, well, new contracts are signed in such a way, as the CEO mentioned, we leave the opportunity to basically put a bookmark there, a placemark there. We're able to increase the prices substantially for them. We have that flexibility. I have another question. It's about the investment made by the previous management team. This was the production of rail wagons. Have you decided to abandon that topic or do you want to return to that topic? Ladies and gentlemen, let me tell you briefly.

Jacek Rutkowski
Member of the Management Board, Commercial Affairs, PKP Cargo

This investment was a political declaration of the government. At the same time, PKP S.A. was interested in this investment. The third thing, we don't have a company that would make rail wagons. The place, Gniewczyna, where we purchased this, and this was a factory of wagons. It's something that's on the table during every meeting of the management team. We have an idea about what to do with that place. Please understand this, we want to do this. We don't want to paint the grass green. We want to do it properly. We want to do that with the participation of one of our companies, and we want to reinstate production of rail wagons. This is an investment process, of course. We know what things look like there. You know that as well.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

This is a legislative process because you have to have licenses for these wagons. This is not something that's so easy. We're talking with the Industrial Development Agency as well as other partners to find a solution to this problem. This location does offer potential, and we want to penetrate that site very well. I think it will take some more time to do that, but that's something that we'd like to be able to do jointly or with our cooperating entities. We'd like to be able to produce wagons there. I have a question about the New Silk Road in Małaszewicze. What was the average daily number of trains that went through that terminal in June versus June of last year? I'll give the floor to Jacek, who was responsible for the subsidiary PKP Cargo Terminale, and he'll know a lot more about that.

Jacek Rutkowski
Member of the Management Board, Commercial Affairs, PKP Cargo

He can say what it looked like in the past, what it looks like today, and what things will look like in the future. I can tell you that it's a difficult situation, this war. The war will come to an end. Let's hope it will end as soon as possible because this is a great tragedy. We will, of course, participate vibrantly in rebuilding Ukraine. Logistics will play a major role in the rebuilding of Ukraine. If you're asking about June itself, I'll happily give that response later. I only know the information year-over-year. There was a decline on the New Silk Road. The New Silk Road is 50% down year-over-year. The reason is well known, and it's not just because of the war, it's also the pandemic in China, and this has been going on for some time.

We've seen a return traffic up by one-third. Difficulties in maritime trade. Most of the containers are being sent back in the other direction. This is somehow offsetting the decline from the East to the West. There is traffic, but we are, of course, pained by this experience. We can provide information about the daily traffic. In terms of the broad gauge tracks, we have 6-8 trains. We had 8. We even wanted to get additional routes, but you know that this embargo means that we have fewer trains. On the normal gauge track, we have 3, 4, 5 trains. The freight volume is down by 30, 40, 50%. It depends on the product range.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

It also depends on what our border guards and especially the tax authorities are looking at. It's not stable 'cause it depends on the nature of the goods, but we see that it's growing. We see that it's starting to function. The New Silk Road in terms of containers are starting to come back. We're pleased that we're coming back. This is gonna take some more time, but it will revisit or come back to a normal status, and we'll have more freight traffic. 'Cause you mentioned Małaszewicze. We also have Medyka, which is on the border with Ukraine. We have colossal growth 'cause it was starting from zero. We weren't handling any containers on that path. Since the end of Q1 of this year, we have a lot of traffic there.

We should start thinking then about creating a very big transshipment cargo terminal. You can say that we're starting to catch up with what we've lost in the New Silk Road. I have another question. A few years ago, the company showed how much coal was imported from the East, how much was coming in through the ports, and the same was done with respect to iron ore and timber. Could we ask you to provide us with a similar graph about, you know, the state of trade between Poland and the Eastern countries, perhaps at the next conference? We'll come back to that presentation for sure. We'll try to prepare something. Generally, it's something that we've prepared, but it's not ready to be displayed. My final question. The company has a lot of debt.

Speaker 8

Have you signed some sort of IRS agreements at the end of last year or the beginning of this year, or is this all on a floating interest rate? This situation surprised everybody, us too. We won't hedge anything because we think we're at the top, moving back towards normalcy. In terms of liquidity, we still have negative ratios, but we've improved quite a bit. After three years of decline, it's the first time that we've seen a rebound. The management was working on this very arduously in order to improve things considerably. We have several negotiations in place. Until they're completed and can be reported, we can't really say too much about those processes. The CEO mentioned in one of the interviews that we would like to improve the financial results quite substantially.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

As I said, they're still negative, but you can see the level of improvement from last year. We believe that 0+ is achievable at the end of this year. What's the most difficult for us is the liquidity side of things, and we believe in that we're gonna be able to present much better information. In a quarter or two quarters from now, we should have substantial improvement. We also have questions from the internet. The first one is a follow-up question about energy. What's the annual exposure in gigawatts to energy? And do we have prices locked in for 2022 and 2023? I think some of the responses have already been given, but also about this freight turnover. I mentioned that energy accounts for 13% of our costs. This year is hedged. We're negotiating prices for 2023.

The others, the other questions were responded to. Do we have any data about the annual exposure to energy in gigawatts? Gigawatt-hours. Sorry, gigawatt-hours. That's a good question. We'll respond to that question by email. We'll check that for sure. I have some knowledge, but I have to check to see whether it's changed. We'll collect that information, compile it, and come back to that. We have another question from here in the room. I'm from the magazine, Kurier Kolejowy. This is a question to Mr. Olkiewicz. Since he was working at previous company, you mentioned, gentlemen, that you mentioned about the coal priority. Now we have a lot of freight in the form of grain, fuels from the north, from Lithuania. My question is, do you have a priority access to infrastructure in order to be able to complete all of this freight transport?

Speaker 9

Well, the question is, have you secured your position in terms of access to infrastructure? I'll ask Marek to say a few words on that subject, but in terms of our cooperation and these priorities, as you know, oversight over companies is split over a couple companies. It used to be the case that everything was in the infrastructure ministry. Now we have a split between the Ministry of State Assets. We have one Poland, so regardless of religious confessions or colors, political colors, we should do our very best for all citizens to make sure that people have warmth. The Prime Minister said clearly that this is the key goal. My colleague will be able to fill in a little bit more. Sometimes we have different ambitions. Everything has to be put to the side.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

We need to cooperate with one another. We need to understand one another to make sure that people get coal as quickly as possible. Let me tell you something a little bit deceptively. The situation is good in the sense that PKP Cargo wasn't visible to the government. They're some sort of company that's supposed to move goods from point A to point B. Now, this situation, this difficult situation, has shown how important a player we are in this logistics chain and for the safety of the nation, the security of the nation. We want to tap into our potential and convert this into success and to ensure that our shareholders would be able to trust us even more. We know what we're doing in energy security in order to generate profits for the company.

Sorry for speaking at such great length, but I'll give the floor now to Marek. The decisions made by the Prime Minister do give us a prerogative to haul coal. All companies are obligated to cooperate in order to fulfill this priority. This is a priority task. Now, whether this will be a legal regulation or not, well, coal is the priority, so all companies are striving to ensure that this coal is hauled in a specific quantity and to specific destinations. Our cooperation with all of the other companies who are responsible for hauling coal as a priority, we have very good cooperation. We meet with one another, we solve problems. As you know, these decisions are being negotiated. State agencies, especially the Prime Minister, are still embellishing them, supplementing them. There might be some additional decisions.

Right now, we don't have any problems with fulfilling our task. I'd like to emphasize what Marek said, that the Prime Minister mentions that all this work has to be done by companies. These regulations that are issued are based on the limitations put in place by law. There's no discretionary power that the role needs to be played. We as a management team are responsible to the shareholders. We can't act to the detriment of the company. We have to be vigilant of the interests of the company. We know that we're responsible for energy security of the company, but we also have to have in mind, of course, the interests of the shareholders. There is no discretionary approach here. We have very strong rules on the marketplace, and we wanna basically discharge our duties here.

Piotr Zielonka
Senior Research Analyst, Santander Brokerage Poland

We have one more question, I think, from the room. Hello. I'm from the Santander Brokerage Poland. My colleague left, but I have several questions. One is linked to business. Then I'll be compelled to switch to harsher topics. Some questions might be uncomfortable, but I hope to be able to engage in dialogue. I wanna understand Q2. The company had a framework contract with a different logistics base in terms of military transport. This was based on official information, and this was transport of grain from Ukraine. This was in Q2. What I have in mind, to what extent are the results of Q2 representative for the rest of the year? With the transport of grain or transport for the military, what percentage did that account for?

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

To what extent, if we look at the average distance that you cover, it's grown year on year, and that's probably improved your profitability. This is my request to the extent that you're able to. If you could say a little bit more about Q2, what generated that result? I wanna assure you that I'm convinced that our results are consistent and persistent. I wouldn't say that grain transports generated so much business press. Ukraine uses wide gauge tracks. There were problems with the transshipment. The opening of the ports, we can see that the interest in grain wasn't so big. We have to think about the activities we're doing inside the country. It's a great question.

I would like for this to be the foundation for what we're doing to be a foundation and for us to be able to develop the company on that foundation. We don't wanna have one-offs. It's not because there's a war in Ukraine that the military has started to ask us to do something, or we have to transport, grain, you know, the aggregates and construction materials that we wanna do for construction projects. We wanna be able to continue investing in the company and the future of the company. I'll give the floor to my colleague. I'd like to point out, as the CEO emphasized, the quantity of grain is not humongous. This is something that's just starting. With the difficulties with transshipment from wide gauge to narrow gauge tracks and the access to ports, these are things that are growing slowly.

I would say that the results in Q2 is a result of, I mean, what's happened despite the decline in coal transport, and not to mention the sanctions on the Russian market. In Poland as well, we had less transport of coal from our mines. I believe this result was very good. It's only something that will be replicated and improved. I would like to follow up. At the beginning, you talked about the unit fee growing. In terms of the unit fee times the fee, and it's up by 17%. I'd like to ask, why do we have such a major increase in the freight rate? Do you have more spot contracts in your mix? To what extent is the freight fee for Q2 gonna be representative for the rest of the year? Is it gonna grow even more?

I wanted to understand what the trends that the company has observed or sees? Prices have risen, the freight rate has risen. We're talking with customers about generating higher income from our contracts. In subsequent quarters, this should augment our results as we have to haul more because we're coming on the peak of hauling coal. We're waiting for coal to flow into the Polish ports, and then we'll transport across Poland. I'm a major optimist in terms of our Q3 and subsequent quarters as well. Thank you very much. Sorry, rates are being renegotiated. These rates are being renegotiated, and this is our duty. We live by working with our customers. This is why our employees have work. We wanna discuss with them, talk with them, respect them to the extent we can.

In terms of energy consumption, it was 547 gigawatt hours in a year. I just wanted to give the response to a previous question. We will field more questions. Now in terms of coal, I'm thinking about the interview given by the CEO. You mentioned that starting in September of this year, coal might show up on the tracks. Is that the case? Or is it the case that this will contribute to the results in Q3 in terms of the freight turnover or results of the group? How does the contracting work, or how do you set up prices for this type of freight transport? For many years, we've been hauling coal, so this is the key element of our business. It's been the key element of our business for many years.

We've been capable of hauling it. I mentioned September as a peak because we have in mind what's being brought in through the ports. We can say this is a peak in, you know, September, October. This is basically accumulation of transport, rail transport of coal. Here I have certain expectations that we're gonna be able to discharge our duties here. These are gonna be important months. As we know, it's August, July, so we have people who are on vacation, on holidays now. We believe that the fall period will be ours, whereas the autumn belonged to somebody else, as we used to say in the Łódź Football Club. We have to basically haul that coal. If you think that we're not gonna do it or we're not gonna be capable of doing it, I can tell you that you're totally wrong.

We will haul this coal, and we'll haul our customers as well. Perhaps we won't fulfill all of the expectations. I'm speaking honestly. There can be some delays or some slippage. Please believe me. Mr. Olkiewicz and his debriefing sessions in the morning and the evening, what's happening in Poland, how people are working. People know that this management team is close to the staff. People know that the CEO's there in order to get some information, advice about what should be done and where we need to shift the fulcrum. There was the commercial part of the question. The CEO mentioned that the ships are sailing into Polish ports, and the peak should be in September. Basically, the Prime Minister will be upset if we say loads gradually.

When you're in the port, it's slow work, you know, because it's the towers that have to haul them in. They don't push the big ships. Well, the decision of the Prime Minister for the Polish energy sector and for individual consumers was that this needs to be done, and we're well-prepared. We were designated by a decision of the Prime Minister to do this task. This also means that we have been empowered to do that. We have certain tools at our disposal, and that gives us financing, and this is done on the basis of arm's length rates. The arm's length rate is rising. This will mean a decent margin.

We certainly won't lose anything on that. The rate that the president is talking about is not just for PKP Cargo, but it's also the same rate as for other logistics operators. I think it's worthwhile to mention here and emphasize when we talk about ships, what's happening in the ports. We have sessions a few times a week with the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, and so we're checking on what's happening in these various nodes in Poland with respect to coal. We are subject to quite a bit of pressure to ensure that we can face this task and discharge it.

Without any fear, we can honestly frame the issue we're dealing with as a group in terms of the logistics chain, supply chain, and this is something we can discuss with the government and think about how this should be solved. When we think about the international markets, there are certain limitations. As you know, some of our wagons are on quiet braking systems, some are not. This is what things look like. Basically, we're trying to catch up to the rest of the world in terms of the company.

Let me remind you, 1.5 years ago, 2 years ago, we were talking about decarbonization of Poland, and people were thinking, "What should we do with the coal carriage cars, coal wagons?" The ports, coal aggregate, we're also building in Poland, roads, certain investments have priority, and we need to be able to deliver these products very intensively. We're here on Grzybowska Street, where we don't just drink coffee, but we're close to people, and we visit many spots around the country in order to see what's actually happening in the ports and our smelting plants. I can assure you that we really are walking the walk and talking the talk. I have a question about your CapEx, 'cause the first quarter had very high CapEx. The second quarter saw a lower CapEx.

Speaker 8

What's the company's plan for the full year? Lower CapEx in the second quarter was because of need, or was it seasonality in the interim period? 'Cause if you could give me some comments. I'm thinking about the cash flow statement and the covenants. The question really is whether or not the CapEx will be important this year and significant. I can tell you that we're looking for the golden mean. We want this CapEx to be a balance. We want to strike a balance between what we can spend and what we need to spend and what we're earning. This is something we don't wanna be over-invested because of our responsibility to our shareholders. The higher the CapEx, so that means it's more difficult to believe in us. We're looking for that golden mean.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

We wanna strike a balance for several years for the future. We don't want to basically overexploit our rolling stock. Certain things we have to do. This is something that will enable us to drive the overall process. Maciej, maybe you can say something. Ladies and gentlemen, in order to achieve our tasks, in order to make things more efficient or to have a higher freight volume or a freight turnover, having in mind our financial constraints, we are having all these things in mind. We carry out our investments, we pursue our investment program. We purchased new wagons in the first half of the year, more than 1,000 wagons. We're thinking about these modern platforms we use for intermodal transport. This has EU funding component. We're investing in the modernization of locomotives. We're buying new locomotives.

We're wrapping up a pretty big investment program to buy locomotives. We should have 31 heavy locomotives. These Dragon locomotives delivered the next project for next year. This is started. We will have five Siemens locomotives. To a large extent, we're doing a lot of remodeling renovations on B4 and B4 wagons, B5 and B4 wagons. This is a broad-based renovation program. We have periodic inspections of the heavy P4 locomotives and the diesel locomotives, and so is the 104. This is something we're doing on a broad basis. In the first half of the year, we've done more than 50% of the work that was intended for the year. To the extent possible, having in mind the tasks we have to do and the development of PKP Cargo and the overall group of PKP Cargo.

We are making capital expenditures to modernize things and upgrade everything. Finally, you can see we could allocate as much money as possible, and Marek would like to spend everything as possible, but we're looking for the golden mean. We know and we're aware what this means to our investors. We wanna make sure that this business has a future. We wanna develop our terminal business. We know that it's not anything difficult to take some money and spend it on repairing wagons. What's next? We do what's necessary. Of course, I know we have to dispute. Okay, we should engage in some polemics and disputes, but there are situations, there are contracts, there are situations that were started. This is not entirely our philosophy. We've been the management team for four months.

We're trying to rectify some mistakes, and Maciej can talk about that in a moment. We wanna find a golden mean. We wanna strike a balance between CapEx and what we have and what we can allow ourselves to do. We're a listed, a public company. These are things that we'll always be discussing. We'll try to put some limits on one another. Marek will wanna spend more for investments, and we'll say, he'll say that this is what gives us the opportunity to earn money. We have to look for some compromises. Compromise is a good word for us to use here in the course of our work. We do feel the brunt of the responsibility we have to. It's not the case. It's not gonna happen that we want to generate earnings and put money into some renovation.

Of course, we inherited a certain status, and we have to continue certain things. This is not something that where decisions were made by us. We wanna find the right path, and we wanna solve these things, and we wanna make sure that this is gonna be acceptable to the market, and we wanna create some prospects and for the market to trust us and buy our shares. I would encourage you to go ahead and buy PKP Cargo shares. Let me add. What amount are we talking about in the modernization? We're talking about PLN 800 million for modernization and to buy new rolling stock. This is a big amount. That's the plan for 2022, or is that the long-term plan? That's the long-term plan.

In the post-COVID period, as we look at freight volume, freight turnover, the results, we're aware of what the management is dealing with. The relationship between CapEx and EBITDA, well, this was a very challenging relationship. As a management team in this composition, we're trying to get past that problem. We wanna strike a balance between these two figures to ensure that we'll be able, that we'll meet our covenants, but also improve our liquidity position. We're now in the second half of the year. We will continue our efforts where we had an impact. We made decisions in order to ensure that these ratios are in place. The future strategy will be built on the basis of our targets, having in mind these indicators or these KPIs.

We'd like to utilize these KPIs and maintain a strong relationship because this is part of our credibility. Thank you very much. My last question. Okay. What's your ambition? When do you think you can update the strategy? By when? It's a great question, and I'm looking for a response. I would like for the strategy to have the foundation for that strategy by the beginning of next year. Well, the second half of the year will show us a little bit more about what's happening in Ukraine. I hope that this war and the tragedy of the Ukrainian nation will come to an end, and then we'll also see more about what's happening in the energy sector. I'd like for it to be a real strategy.

We want this to be the foundation of the company, for it to define the future, for the company to be able to develop. This is a great question. I'm looking for a response. I'd like for the strategy to be in place by the end of the year. I understand that we're coming to the end of the conference. I'd really like to thank you for coming. We wanna continue building on your trust in our cooperation. I really appreciate the time that you're spending by using the internet and media to listen to us, our employees. Perhaps I'll wrap things up. Zenon is responsible for the staff, and so I'd like for Zenon to wrap things up because people are the most important. It's not metal, it's not the wheels, it's not the wagons or the locomotives.

Everything begins and ends with the people. I'd like to thank you all for being here with us, and I'll give the floor to Zenon, who is responsible for the staff. This is something that generates costs. If Zenon's gonna be able to negotiate things well, it'll be easier for us to operate. He's got a lot of experience over many years. Zenon, go ahead and take the floor, and you can wrap up our meeting, and then we can discuss things here after the scenes. Now we have floor number three. If we wanna be close to you can come up and visit us. I won't speak anymore. Thank you very much, and I think Zenon can just go ahead and wrap up the meeting. Thank you very much.

Zenon Kozendra
Member of the Management Board of Operations, PKP Cargo

I'd like to thank all of you, ladies and gentlemen. I had anticipated a question about negotiations with trade unions because this is sort of an ironclad tip. The question was posed electronically. Ladies and gentlemen, just as the CEO and other management board members have said, we do care for our customers, our clients, but we also care for our most valuable quality, capital. Our employees, our human capital, our success depends on whether or not we have a competent staff and engaged staff, employees for whom PKP Cargo is an important employer. That's why we're taking a number of different steps and efforts to ensure that our employees wanna work for PKP Cargo, for them to get involved in the job. We would like for them to build the success of this company, and we'd like them to work for the success of our customers.

Dariusz Seliga
CEO, PKP Cargo

We do this in a variety of ways. I can talk about a few of those methods. We wanna be an attractive employer, and that's why we cultivate our brand among young people. Our work establishments are working with more than 30 schools where you have classes linked to logistics or rail. These are cities like Warsaw, Lublin, Warsaw. We also have smaller communities like Małkinia and other smaller towns. We give scholarships, we give fellowships, internships, apprenticeships, and so we wanna tell people that it's worthwhile to think about setting up some links to us and working together. We're making sure that our headcount is in line with what's happening in the marketplace 'cause the headcount in the first half of the year is down by some 5% as opposed to the previous year, the first half of the previous year.

The question about negotiations with trade unions. Well, I'd like to say, generally speaking, that our dialogue with the trade unions, I would like to say it's based on a relationship of partnership. It's not the case that we talk with one another during negotiations, but from dispute to dispute that we wanna constantly be in contact with one another. We talk with trade unions. We talk about different topics that are difficult. Our meetings vary. Sometimes we have just regular negotiations about, you know, changing the collective bargaining agreement like yesterday. We have quarterly information meetings. Like next week, we'll have a meeting of that sort, as you know, but I can reiterate this. The percentage of employees belonging to trade unions is above 80%, so more than 80% of our employees belong to trade unions.

I don't wanna say too much, but I would mention some of the things that we do for our employees. Link to education. We're cooperating with the Ministry of National Education as part of the National Recovery Plan. PKP Cargo is playing a major role in terms of setting up these expert centers for craftsmen skills, and this is something that's gonna be quite important in terms of vocational training. We're also a socially responsible corporate citizen, so we're a precursor here in terms of the CSR activity. From 2008, we've been very consistent in terms of running CSR related to activities. We're promoting a certain style of life. We want people to jog, do other things. Nice balance between work and life.

This year, in May, I think it was, we had the biggest report about best practices in terms of CSR business. 7 of the practices thereof PKP Cargo were recognized as best practices. I'd also mention one other important product. Safety. For 3 years, we've been running a program, having a safe working environment. We're working with more than 7,000 employees. These are 7,000 employees working directly in the freight transport. Their approach to the safety regulations has changed from I have to follow the rules to I want to follow the rules. This was a motto of, you know, being safe in the workplace, so I follow the occupational health and safety regulations 'cause I wanna be able to return home in the evening.

We wanna have a very good safety culture in the business, and this is something that we have implemented. The largest newspaper about occupational health and safety regulations, well, this is something that this newspaper describes our activities, so this is very good. The agreement we signed in May with the trade unions also speaks to the fact that the level of salaries will be reviewed in November. I'd like to assure you that discussions with trade unions, although they're difficult, sometimes stormy, are always run in the feeling of co-responsibility, partnership, concern for the company. In many cases, we've been able to prove that the feeling of responsibility felt by both parties in the management as well as amongst the trade unions has led to a situation in which good contracts are signed.

We have satisfactory conditions to our employees, but at the same time, they're not breaching the safety of the company. I'd like to thank the CEO and my other colleagues for this honor of saying the last few words at this conference, and I hadn't anticipated that. Thank you very much for this opportunity, and I'd like to thank you for your presence today and your attendance. Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. I would just add that one of our meetings will be with the participation of our daughter companies. Wanna give you some more information about the daughter companies, and you'll have the opportunity to pose questions to the management board members of those daughter companies, especially the international ones. Thank you very much, and have a nice day. Believe in us. Cargo is the future. Thank you.

Powered by