Good afternoon, and welcome to the Benchmark Electronics, Inc. fourth quarter 2023 earnings conference call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star then one on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Paul Mansky, Investor Relations and Corporate Development of Benchmark. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Andrea, and thanks to everyone for joining us today for Benchmark's fourth quarter fiscal year 2023 earnings call. Joining me this afternoon are Jeff Benck, CEO and President, and Roop Lakkaraju, CFO. After the market closed today, we issued an earnings release pertaining to our financial performance for the fourth quarter of 2023, and we have prepared a presentation that we will reference on this call. Both are available online under the Investor Relations section of our website at bench.com. This call is being webcast live, and a replay will be available online following the call. The company has provided a reconciliation of our GAAP to non-GAAP measures in the earnings release, as well as in the appendix to the presentation. Please take a moment to review the forward-looking statements disclosure on slide two in the presentation.
During our call, we will discuss forward-looking statements. As a reminder, any of today's remarks, which are not statements of historical fact, are forward-looking statements, which involve risks and uncertainties as described in our press releases and SEC filings. Actual results may differ materially from these statements. Benchmark undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements. For today's call, Jeff will begin by providing a summary of our fourth quarter. Roop will then discuss our detailed financial results and our first quarter guidance. Jeff will then return to provide more insight into demand trends by sector, business wins, and then closing remarks. If you will please turn to slide three, I'll turn the call over to our CEO, Jeff Benck.
Thank you, Paul. Good afternoon, and thanks to everyone for joining our call today. The fourth quarter was another period of solid execution for the company. Despite some revenue softening, which impacted our top line, we met or exceeded all other objectives for the quarter. This directly reflects the company's focus on operational execution. Let me step through a few highlights in the quarter. Total revenue of $691 million was down high single digits year-over-year and mid-single digits sequentially. I will point out that supply chain premiums, or SCP, have normalized, ending the fourth quarter at slightly below $8 million, versus $46 million in the same period last year. Excluding SCP, fourth quarter revenue was down low single digits versus last year. Despite this challenge, our non-GAAP gross margin exceeded 10%, growing both sequentially and year-over-year.
Coupled with a 9% year-on-year reduction in non-GAAP operating expense in the quarter, we drove operating margin to greater than 5%. As a reminder, this margin includes approximately 50 basis points of stock compensation. I want to congratulate the entire team for delivering such a strong set of results, which allowed us to report $0.58 in non-GAAP earnings-per-share, above the midpoint of our guidance. Finally, as we've highlighted over the last few quarters, we've implemented a number of actions to drive free cash flow. I'm pleased to report that we generated $126 million in Q4, and $97 million for the full-year, well ahead of our objective of $70 million-$80 million. This was enabled in large part by a reduction in inventory.
Considering all the end-market obstacles facing us and others, I'm proud of the team's execution in the quarter and throughout 2023. Now, let me pass it over to Roop to share more details on the December quarter, our fiscal year 2023, and guidance for Q1 2024.
Thank you, Jeff, and good afternoon. Please turn to slide six for our revenue by market sector. As Jeff mentioned, our total revenue was $691 million in Q4. The reconciliation of this and our sector-level performance that excludes the effect of SCP can be found in the appendix section, section of the presentation materials. Turning to slide seven, as we look at our sector performance, our discussion will exclude the effect of SCP. Medical revenue for the fourth quarter was down 7% versus the prior-year. The decline was due to general softness across the industry, driven by inventory rebalancing and demand normalization post-pandemic. Semi-Cap revenue decreased 5% year-over-year, in line with our expectations.
A&D revenue was up 15% year-over-year due to commercial aerospace remaining strong and the defense sector benefiting from the ramp of existing programs and broadening of new wins within our customer base. Industrials revenue for the fourth quarter increased 8% year-over-year, driven by strength with existing customers providing energy efficiency solutions. Advanced computing increased 3% year-over-year, aided by our build of subsystems for a new large high-performance computing program that started in Q4 and is expected to continue into first half 2024. In the next generation communication sector, revenue was down 31% year-over-year. Our year-over-year performance was impacted by general softness across the sector due to reductions in capital spending. We expect this dynamic may persist throughout 2024.... Please turn to slide eight. Our GAAP earnings-per-share for the quarter was $0.49.
For Q4, our non-GAAP gross margin was 10.3%, a 70 basis point increase sequentially and year-over-year. Gross margin benefited from our mix of revenue and improved operational execution, including the previously announced cost actions taken in the first half due to demand softness. SG&A expense was $35.6 million, flat sequentially, and down 10% versus the prior-year due to cost actions taken, coupled with lower variable compensation. Non-GAAP operating margin was 5.1%, up 40 basis points sequentially, and 80 basis points year-over-year, benefiting from both improved gross margin and operating expense discipline. In Q4 2023, our non-GAAP effective tax rate was 20.6%. For Q4, non-GAAP EPS of $0.58, above the midpoint of our guidance. Non-GAAP ROIC in the fourth quarter was 9.3%.
Please turn to slide nine for our revenue comparison by market sector for the full-year, 2023 versus 2022. Total Benchmark revenue for 2023 was $2.8 billion. Turning to slide 10, excluding the effect of SCP, revenue was up 6% year-over-year. Medical revenues increased 9% from growth with existing customers and new program ramps. Semi-Cap revenues decreased 9% in line with our expectations and reflecting better-than-market performance. The A&D sector increased by 6% due to continued strength in commercial aerospace, defense programs that continue to ramp, and improved supply availability, enabling us to address more of our previously unmet demand. Industrials revenues were up 17%, primarily from the continued ramp of our prior wins, notably in energy control systems and building infrastructure programs.
Advanced computing was up 10% on the year, given the timing of our next-generation high-performance computing program deliveries. Next-gen communications revenues were up 16%, given first half strength in broadband infrastructure programs. Please turn to slide 11. Our GAAP earnings-per-share for fiscal year 2023 was $1.79. Our GAAP results included restructuring and other one-time costs, totaling $9.3 million, related to the completion of the Moorpark, California, closure, rightsizing of certain manufacturing sites, and a net gain of $4.6 million from legal settlements. Both GAAP and non-GAAP gross margin of 9.5% increased 70 basis points due to lower SCP. Without SCP, our gross margin was 9.8%. The gross margin expansion was driven by improved operational efficiencies and the proactive cost reduction actions taken by our manufacturing sites.
Our SG&A was $147 million, down 2% year-over-year, driven by the cost actions taken, coupled with lower variable compensation. Non-GAAP operating margin was 4.4%, an increase of 80 basis points, driven by the gross margin expansion. Non-GAAP effective tax rate was 20.1% for the year, and our non-GAAP EPS was $2.04. Please turn to slide 12 for a discussion of the effects of SCP on a trended basis. In Q4, SCP declined to $8 million versus $16 million in Q3 2023, and $46 million in Q4 2022. On a year-over-year basis, SCP declined by $209 million - $59 million in 2023. Looking into 2024, we expect SCP to be immaterial. As such, beginning in Q1 2024, we will discontinue references to performance excluding SCP.
Please turn to slide 13 for a discussion of our cash conversion cycle performance. Our cash conversion cycle days were 98 in the fourth quarter, compared to 105 days in Q3. Our inventory decreased sequentially by $42 million. Cash conversion cycle improved by seven days due to improved working capital efficiency and an increase in advanced payments from customers. Please turn to slide 14 for an update on liquidity. Free cash flow generation is a critical focus area. To that end, in 2023, we reduced inventory and improved working capital efficiency. This supported full-year free cash flow generation of $97 million, which exceeded our annual goal of $70 million-$80 million per year. In 2024, we again expect to generate $70 million-$80 million. Our cash balance on December 31st was $283 million, a sequential increase of $22 million.
As of December 31st, we had $127 million outstanding on our term loan, $5 million outstanding borrowings against our revolver, and $341 million available to borrow under our revolver. Overall debt, net of cash, improved sequentially by $124 million because of the strong free cash flow in Q4 2023. Please turn to slide 15 for a discussion of our capital allocation activity. We invested approximately $78 million in capital spending in 2023, including $11 million in Q4, both primarily in support of continued growth in our Mexico facilities and enhanced capabilities in our Precision Technologies business unit. We expect our CapEx spending in Q1 2024 to be between $10 and $15 million. On a full-year basis, we anticipate 2024 CapEx to be in the range of $55 million-$65 million.
In Q4, we paid cash dividends of $5.9 million and totaling $23 million for the full-year 2023. Since 2018, we have paid cash dividends totaling $136 million. We did not repurchase any outstanding shares in 2023. As of December 31st, we had approximately $155 million remaining in our existing share repurchase authorization. Starting in Q1, we expect to repurchase shares opportunistically while considering market conditions. Turning to slide 16. For the first quarter 2024, we expect revenue to range from $625 million-$665 million. Our non-GAAP gross margin is expected to be between 9.8%-10.2%. We expect SG&A expense will range between $34 million-$36 million. Our non-GAAP operating margin range is forecasted to be 4.5%-4.7%.
As a reminder, this includes approximately 50 basis points of stock-based compensation. Our non-GAAP guidance excludes the impact of $1.2 million in amortization of intangible assets and $3.1 million-$3.5 million of estimated restructuring and other expenses to support incremental steps necessary to proactively manage our cost structure, given current market conditions. Our non-GAAP diluted earnings-per-share is expected to be in the range of $0.42-$0.48. Other expenses, net are expected to be approximately $8.5 million. Interest expense is expected to decline sequentially, given the reduction in revolver debt. However, over the near term, this will be partially offset by increased foreign exchange headwinds due to the weakening U.S. dollar. We have historically managed our exchange risks through a proactive hedge program, and we will continue to do so.
We expect in Q1, our non-GAAP effective tax rate will be 24%, a weighted average share count of 36 million. Our effective tax rate will be higher in 2024 because of our China tax holiday, which expired as of December 31st, 2023. We are applying for another tax holiday, which we hope to receive in 2024, retroactive to the beginning of 2024. Also in 2024, some of our foreign jurisdictions will be adopting Pillar Two, the global minimum tax regulations, on a fiscal year basis. We believe the average 2024 effective tax rate should be approximately 23%. And with that, I'll turn the call back over to you, Jeff.
Thanks, Roop. Please turn to slide 18. Again, all commentary related to demand trends by sector are excluding SCP. Within semi-cap, our fourth quarter performance was up modestly, sequentially, and in line with our expectations. On a full-year basis, revenue performance was down high single digits. This compared favorably to the overall industry revenue trend, which we believe was down approximately 20%. As mentioned in prior calls, we believe our semi-cap sector likely bottomed in the March quarter of 2023. However, based on public commentary from many semi-cap OEMs, we don't expect improved demand at the industry level to return over the next few quarters. This may change in late 2024, but it's too early to make that call. Looking forward into 2025 and beyond, we continue to believe in the strong secular drivers propelling global semi demand.
Adding to this are government subsidies designed to accelerate the reshoring of wafer production to North America and Europe. Although we won't see the downstream effects for some time, this is just another example of the long-term drivers that serve as the basis of our strong commitment to the sector. In support of all these demand drivers and our confidence in our ability to benefit, we have been investing heavily in our capabilities in winning new programs, which we believe positions us well to continue to outperform the market. We had a number of new wins in the quarter, including an important next-generation wafer fab equipment program with one of our existing customers. In medical, this past quarter, we did a good job meeting demand as the supply chain continues to improve.
Offsetting this was some incremental demand softening later in the quarter, both as a function of end markets and customer focus on inventory levels. As such, while we had expected performance to be down in the quarter, it was down more than anticipated. For the full-year, medical delivered high single-digit growth, driven by our ramping program wins and our improved ability to meet demand. Despite this success, we expect the demand environment will challenge our ability to deliver growth in this sector in the first half of 2024. Looking forward, our new win momentum, driven in part by the continued trend toward nearshoring, bodes well for our future growth. We continued to secure new wins during this past quarter.
Importantly, not only are we seeing new program wins with existing EMS customers, we continue to benefit from the advantage of our end-to-end offerings, converting engineering engagements into EMS wins. As these wins begin ramping later in 2024 and into 2025, we expect to see growth return to this sector. Turning to complex industrials, we continued to extend our footprint in key growth markets, including electrification, automation, and energy management solutions. One example in Q4 is a program win to manufacture control subsystems going into electric vehicles used primarily in the construction industry. Another key win was for an automated guided vehicle system, specifically designed to address the needs in the hospitality and medical sectors. This win, again, demonstrates the benefit of our broad capabilities as we transition a design engagement into a manufacturing win.
Within energy management, we are pleased to win new manufacturing business in Guadalajara with an existing customer, which is part of their nearshoring strategy. Industrial sector revenue performed slightly better than expected in the fourth quarter, up 8% year-on-year versus our flat guidance. However, as with medical, the quarter saw some second-half softening due to weakening end demand. The near-term corrections notwithstanding, we are continuing to invest in our industrial sector team, given the large opportunity in front of us and how well we were positioned to grow with this customer set. Now, turning to A&D. We had another strong quarter of revenue performance and new wins in Q4, continuing our momentum in the sector. Commercial aerospace has remained strong for us since early in 2023, which we believe will continue based on our order load.
Meanwhile, within defense, although some component lead times are not yet back to historical levels, they continue to improve. This has allowed us to more fully meet the continually increasing demand we're seeing from our customers. At the same time, we continued to secure new wins in the past quarter, notably one for ground vehicle communications and another for imaging systems used at military training sites. This balance of end demand strength, design win momentum, and gradually improving supply chain has us positioned for continued growth in 2024. Within advanced computing, revenues were consistent with the guidance provided last quarter, up low single digits year-on-year, albeit up considerably on a sequential basis.
As previously shared, after a pause in Q3, last quarter, we began delivering upon a new HPC program for a large OEM supporting a national lab, which will likely be completed in the first half of 2024. We are working new HPC opportunities to drive future growth, but given the timing of these projects, coupled with our growth in the first half last year, we currently expect advanced computing revenue to be down for the first half of 2024. Finally, in next-generation communications, we've been highlighting anticipated challenges at the industry level for a few quarters now. The communication sector is seeing broad pressure in capital spending, while at the same time, more aggressively managing through their own inventory positions. This has resulted in continued end demand weakening, which we believe will persist for several more quarters.
As such, we expect sector revenue to be down materially in the first half and likely for the full-year. In summary, please turn to slide 19. I couldn't be more pleased by our performance in 2023. Despite the challenging market dynamics, we continue to invest in future growth, building on our business with both new logos and expansion wins from existing customers. We did this while growing non-GAAP gross and operating margins year-over-year. Despite our pace of investment, particularly in support of Semi-Cap, we exceeded our free cash flow target range for the year. This was aided by a material reduction in total inventory. Meanwhile, as compared to 2022, we reduced net debt by almost 60% to less than $48 million. We continue to make progress, but we are not complacent with our success. There is much more for us to do.
We made great headway in 2023 towards our target model of full-year gross margins of 10% and greater than 5% non-GAAP operating margin. In fact, we achieved these levels in fourth quarter. Our job now is to sustain this gross margin while closely managing our costs during the softening demand environment. Second, we will continue our efforts on inventory reductions in support of delivering free cash flow. And then finally, we plan to further reduce our debt and interest expense while returning capital by continuing our dividend program and resuming share repurchases. We look forward to updating you on our progress as we move through the year. With that, I'll now turn the call over to the operator to conduct our Q&A session.
We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble the roster. Our first question will come from Jim Ricchiuti of Needham & Company. Please go ahead.
Hi, thanks. Good afternoon. So, Jeff, I wanted to just focus on two of the sectors, medical and industrial, because I think you're kind of clear on some of the other ones, what you're seeing. Not entirely clear on where you see medical and industrials going. It softened, I guess, midway or so through Q4. Do you see that recovering, or is this something that maybe persists through the first half of the year?
Yeah, I think, for both of those, we kind of in the, on Chart 18, we kind of give you some first-half guidance. We didn't go out to the full-year, just given the dynamic environment. But just looking at the first half, we see both of those, you know, being down from, like, looking at sequentially, where we ended the second half of last year. In medical, while supply constraints, you know, eased and allowed us to fulfill, you know, the demand we saw, we did see forecasts come down in the fourth quarter, that continued in 1Q. You know, we certainly believe people are paying a lot of attention to inventory, some of it, you know, probably related to that softness. I will say there's still a lot of outsourcing activity and nearshoring continues.
We're excited about a number of new wins in Mexico for us as medical OEMs look to, you know, get closer to point of consumption. On the industrial side, again, you know, I would say similar kind of broader, it depends a little bit by OEM, but certainly saw broader softness that looks to persist into the first half. That's an area where, you know, we had done pretty good with wins. We, you know, we had put resource on that a few years ago, and we still believe we're really well positioned there, with some of the activity we're seeing in, you know, energy management and automation and test and measurement.
But in the meantime, again, you know, sort of the softness coupled with people being, you know, looking at their own inventory and the channel inventory is putting some headwinds in front of us for the industrial sector too.
But the softness through the first half in these areas, it's both a combination. They're both related, but it's not just, you know, OEMs, some of your OEMs destocking. It's, you know, there's just a weaker environment in both these areas.
Yeah, I think that-
Yeah.
I think that's a fair assessment. It's, you know, as demand softens, then you say, "Hey, we've got inventory in the channel," or, you know. So they're kind of interrelated, although I will say-
Of course.
There's just a general sense of, I'm not gonna carry as much inventory now that we're through the pandemic. The lead times have come down on components, you know, I can deliver faster, so, you know, I'm gonna look carefully at that. But, but yeah, that's, that's, that's some of what we're seeing in both sectors.
Got it. Just two, two quick follow-ups, and I'll jump back in the queue. You know, nice progress on gross margins. Can you continue to deliver on these kind of gross margins in this kind of a soft environment? You alluded to it in your presentation. Just trying to get a sense of your confidence as to whether you can maintain these kind of margins with this pull.
Yeah. Hey, Jim, it's Roop. So maybe I'll-
Sure.
Start with this. You know, I think for, for us, obviously a focus for us has been on getting to that 10% and sustaining that 10%. As we've also said historically, we'll see, you know, kind of that bounce around a little bit, quarter to quarter. But based on kind of where we're at and, and kind of the mix of revenue, the proactive cost actions we've taken, that kind of 10% is, you know, where we'd like to be, throughout the year. I think depending upon how demand continues to profile, and as you know, where the demand comes in within our factories and these sort of things start to come into play. So, I think there's an opportunity to do so, definitely at, at that 10%.
We've got work to do to sustain that on a longer-term basis.
Got it. Nice, progress on inventories. How do we think about that going forward? Should we see that continue to come down over the next couple of quarters?
Yeah, I mean, it's clearly a... This is Jeff again. It's clearly a priority for us. You know, we've kind of demonstrated that. A lot of things culminated in fourth quarter to, you know, drive a lot of free cash flow, and inventory was certainly really, you know, a lead there. But it, it's something we're putting a lot of attention on, as you can imagine, and particularly in the softer environment, you know, we're really looking at that and spending a lot of energy. We do believe, you know, we will continue to drive this down as we go through 2024, and certainly see, you know, a reduction even in the first quarter.
So this wasn't like a one-time event, but the last few quarters, we started coming down off of what was peaking, I think, first quarter of last year. So, so anyways, yeah, to your point, important.
Got it. Thank you.
Thanks.
Sure.
The next question comes from Steven Fox of Fox Advisors. Please go ahead.
Hi, good afternoon. Couple questions from me. Just first on the Semi-Cap, slide on, on slide 18, where you're talking about sort of flattish trends.
Yeah.
You guys outperformed last year pretty, pretty dramatically versus the overall market, but are you still seeing the market down, or are you trying to be conservative in terms of talking about first half, or like, is there certain programs where you're seeing down versus up, et cetera? Like, it just doesn't seem to compute fully with how the market might be, might be flattening out and you guys have been outperforming.
What I would say is, you know, sequentially, I think, you know, on that chart 18, we kind of said it's, it's kind of flattish at that level we've been at, which is clearly up, up off the bottom that we saw a year ago in the first quarter. But we're just not seeing a dramatic recovery, you know, in, in some of the segments that were legacy, that we've been really strong in. Certainly not tools that were near end of life. So the way for fab equipment, you know, I think capital spending is still being managed pretty close, and we just aren't seeing that broad semi recovery. I think where we've outperformed, what's helped us, is we've won incremental new tools.
We have a ton of NPI activity going on, where we're building new tools, and that, that's helping us certainly, outperform. You know, I look to get more constructive here. I won't say that we're being, you know, conservative, because we literally have heard a lot of the major OEMs where we play in most of those, if not all of those, at some level. You know, they've all kind of said, "Yeah, it's kind of flatter now." I think we have the potential. I don't know why we wouldn't continue to do better than the market. It's just that, with the China restrictions and some of the, even some of the CHIPS Act, you know, we're really not gonna see the benefit of that till 2025.
There's just moving parts that has us sort of looking at it, saying, you know, "What are we seeing in front of us for first half?" And it's, it's kinda continuing at the level we've been.
That's really helpful. And then just broadly, on the other end markets where you're seeing pressure, where do you have sort of a, the most confidence level or evidence that things could be bottoming out, cyclically in, like, medical, industrials, comms? I know advanced computing is sort of episodic, but, like, in the other three, where-
Yeah
you know, you have strong signs of that or, you know, upcoming signs, just any-
I mean, we try to-- I guess we've gotten some indication on medical that there, there may be some... Again, it's early, but say, hey, there may be return to normal, normal pace, with inventory looking at second half, like, we might see some, some reflection there, where maybe there's like... You know, and we saw it in Semi, where the first quarter was like: We're taking it down, and, and you have that big reaction. So, you know, maybe, we start seeing that in the fourth quarter with medical. Industrial, I still think it's so broad, so many different companies, you know, it's a little harder to, to look at, you know, where, where the bottom is. And then A&D has been strong and continues strong, and I, I guess we said that in the thing.
I know you didn't ask about that, but, you know, certainly that's been a bright spot, and we expect that to continue. Do you wanna add anything?
Yeah. Hey, Steve, this is Roop. I'll just add one thing. I think maybe, you know, building off of Jeff's comments, if you think about industrial, next gen comms, that's CapEx related, and CapEx considerations, I think, are weighing on customers' minds and just market in general. I think medical has an opportunity, to that point, for that reason, to come back a little bit faster, just as Jeff, Jeff indicated, which is another point to just keep in mind.
Yeah, and the one thing with medical, you know, just, just to, you know, maybe an example, we, we build defibrillators, right? And, and components and subsystems for defibrillator. And you think about, like, during the pandemic, no one was going to stadiums, airports, and that's where, that's where, you know, we saw a huge surge back, right? When things opened up, you start seeing demand there, and then people got on the run rate, and they said, "Wow, this is great, and this is the new normal." And I just think you've seen that modulate a little bit as you kinda caught up with that and people saying, "Okay, still care for it, still important, not gonna go away," but just not, you know, maybe as, as crazy, you know, upside as there had been.
That's helpful. And then just if I could squeeze one last one in. One of your peers seems to be walking towards providing EPS excluding SBC. And so, I mean, you guys may get lonely with your own EPS approach. I was curious if any chance of you guys changing how you report your EPS going forward.
Yeah, we did notice that the only peer that was kind of aligned with us on including the stock-based comp in their non-GAAP results sort of indicated there was a shift there. So, you know, to that end, we got to assess our current approach, and we'll provide an update when we conclude that, and, you know, we'll look to get back on that. But obviously, peer comparisons are important to us, but we've got to decide what's right for us, and we did pick up on that, so thanks for bringing that up.
Great. We'll keep doing the math. Thanks.
The next question comes from Jaeson Schmidt of Lake Street. Please go ahead.
Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. I know it's gonna vary by segment, but just curious at a high level, if more of the issue is demand for current programs that you've already won, you noted for customers not wanting to hold a lot of inventory anymore, or is the bigger issue, new programs that you thought would currently be ramping, just getting pushed to the right?
You know, I think it's some of both. I mean, I've certainly seen, you know, people are watching expense closely, and I think we've seen some ramps move to the right. But really, when you consider the bulk of our revenues, you know, with existing programs, and these are multi-year programs, I think we've just seen the overall demand modulate. And, you know, I don't know that we've actually measured both. I'm just giving you a little my gut feel from what we're seeing, that it's probably, I would probably lean more towards, you know, the base business. And then some of the new stuff coming in, you know, is some of that's in flight, but not fully ramped yet.
It's not always the best environment to launch new stuff, but I don't think that stops. I just think that we're seeing that, you know, that folks are being careful about their development expense, and so that has an impact sometimes on timelines.
Okay, that's helpful. And then, are you seeing any change in attach rates for your design and engineering services, just given the changing macro?
You know, we almost, we're almost at 80%, not quite to what the target we had set. So we haven't, that attach rate's been pretty, pretty, pretty good, I'm pretty happy with that. Obviously, we had, we had a couple wins. We referenced even one where we've done the engineering on an AGV product and, and now it's moving into manufacturing. So, you know, that's, that, we love that, the whole product realization, and how do we help customers get to market faster with their OEM designs or design that we might help develop or develop the whole thing, and, and we've got a couple great proof points there. So still an important metric for us, and, and really hasn't shifted materially from, from how we did last quarter, and I, I don't really see that, that being a trend or anything.
... Gotcha. And then just the last one from me. I know it's mix dependent, your program dependent, but can you remind us what capacity is for the Mexico facility and then what current utilization is today?
Hey, Jaeson, that's, you know, I can give you a general... We don't give specific utilization and these sort of things. With that said, what I would reinforce is our continued investment in Mexico. As you would imagine, there's been quite a bit of reshoring, and with existing OEMs who want to expand new programs in Mexico, and so we've seen the benefit of that. So we've been aggressively investing over the last couple of years, in our capacity and availability there, and we're seeing that capacity get used up, as we've gone over the last few periods and into 2024 and into 2025.
Yeah, it's funny. We've seen growth in Mexico, but we've also added capacity, we've continued to add capacity, and it's been an investment area, so, you know, we're not. It's not like we're seeing... You know, the fact that we've invested as well is to sort of stay in front of that, so we're not, like, at capacity by any means.
Okay, perfect. Thanks a lot, guys.
Thanks, Jaeson.
No worries.
This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Paul Mansky for any closing remarks.
Thank you, Andrea, and thank you everyone for participating in Benchmark's fourth quarter 2023 earnings call. Before we go, I'd like to remind listeners we will be attending the Sidoti Small Cap Virtual Conference on March 13th. Please remember to check the events section of the IR website at bench.com/investors for updates to the schedule. With that, thank you again for your support, and we look forward to speaking with you soon.
The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation, and you may now disconnect.