Look to get started here. Thanks everyone for being here. I'm Patrick Donnelly, the tools and diagnostics analyst here at Citi. Happy to have Norman Schwartz and Andy Last with us from Bio-Rad. Guys, thanks for being here. Maybe, Norman, we can start off. You guys just finished the year, kind of gave your initial 2024 guidance range. Maybe just talk about, I guess, the general backdrop, what you guys are seeing as we head into 2024 here, and just general expectations for trends as we work our way through the year, and then we can certainly dive into some specifics.
Yeah, I think that, you know, interestingly enough, we expected '23 to be a year of normalization, and I think we're looking at '24 now to be a year of normalization. We had the kind of meltdown of biotech that kind of hit us in '23, and I think we're actually looking for recovery in 2024, probably more of the second half of that than the first half of that, kind of driving the business for this year.
Yeah, and I guess when you look at that, you know, we've, we've obviously seen some signs of life maybe on the, on the biotech funding environment, right, the, whether the activity picks up or not we'll see. But, you know, I guess how quickly could you see, you know, some of the impact from the capital markets window opening, at least briefly, hopefully for a little while? But, when you talk about the biotech piece, how do you think about that customer market, just the, the appetite to, to kind of come back and spend a bit?
Yeah, I think that, do you wanna take that one?
Well, yeah, I mean, I think we've been encouraged by the funding levels that the capital markets are injecting right now. You know, that will take time. It's gotta go through balance sheets into deployment and programs, some amounts of hiring in all likelihood. And then, you know, we're, you know, order flow into our pipeline. But, you know, it's hard to put an exact timeframe on that, but probably a quarter plus before I think we could see a really positive effect of that capital influx right now.
Yeah. Yep. No, that makes sense. And maybe just kind of refresh us on what parts of the business are most sensitive to kind of that biotech piece and where you are baking in some level of improvement as the year goes on in terms of the product portfolio.
Yeah, I think what we've called out is, you know, of course, you know, we've had kind of broad, you know, broad portfolio of products into biotech, but the one that we really called out is more the Droplet Digital PCR technologies as being one that's probably more affected by biotech than some of our other products which are more broadly based.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and digital PCR, you know, has been a focus for people for some time. Obviously, a big growth driver for you guys for years, slowed a little bit with the biotech piece. Can you just talk about, I guess, the customer base you're selling that into? You know, obviously, it's a pretty good base at this point in terms of revenue dollars. Yeah, maybe just talk about the customer set, where we are in the adoption, and then after that, maybe we can talk a little bit about just the competitive landscape.
Yeah, I'll take that one, Patrick. So, I mean, on the positive side is a very broad set of customers. We have, in particular, focused on the biotech and biopharma segment simply because the technology fit is extremely high. It's really a capable platform for the novel therapeutics and new modalities of the difficult questions they're trying to answer. So we've had some, you know, historical outsized growth there, I would say, over until last year. But beyond that, you know, the platform fits right from the traditional R&D, typical R&D, even through to manufacturing QC on the biopharma biotech side, and then in basic research, for rare event detection. The platform fits exceedingly well in translational research, in particular in the oncology field.
So, the application suite and therefore the market segment opportunities are actually continuing to expand, as we see it. Now, the big variable is the funding level and the recovery cycle in biotech and biopharma.
Yeah. And maybe just on the competitive environment, you know, obviously, you've had other players come in that have had some success. You know, it still feels like the market is quite underpenetrated. But maybe just talk about the competitive landscape and, you know, how you guys view the product differentiation for your offer.
Yeah, so the segment that we play in is the kind of what I call the mid- to high-end segment, primarily focused in the biopharma space. And, you know, if we look at our continuing win-loss ratios in those spaces, and particularly for ddPCR, it seems to be fairly steady, where the competition is coming in is in what I term the low end, more the academic market. And they've done pretty well in that market, really kind of opened that up. And so I think for us, the idea that it kind of proves out the thesis that we had, that there will be a low-end market for this technology. And of course, we're just about to introduce the Continuum product, which will directly address that.
Yeah.
That market.
Yeah, maybe a little bit in terms of Continuum and future, you know, product expansions. I know at the Analyst Day just a couple of years ago at this point, you kind of addressed the market and gave some pretty large numbers. The diagnostics market was one that, you know, was a little bit untapped, but clearly some big potential. Maybe talk about, I guess, some of these new launches and how they could open up some of those pieces of the market that you haven't quite seen take off yet.
Yeah, so obviously, all right, entering the academic segment, you know, it's the positioning of this platform is for rare event, high sensitivity, high precision. It's very relevant, and for a lot of the basic research. And we do expect the real-time PCR platform users to reach up, you know, beyond their current price point a bit, you know. So that is a significant piece of the strategy. Adoption within the Clinical Diagnostics field, you know, real-time PCR is a very powerful platform in diagnostics, Molecular Diagnostics. So our view on it is, you know, it's gotta be differentiated application-driven, where, you know, high value, where the performance attributes make a difference.
And so we're looking at women's reproductive health, rare events, rarely you see some companies working on, like Geneoscopy on such things as colorectal cancer testing, where they want the precision and sensitivity, and they've got a more challenging sample to deal with. You know, organ transplant monitoring for rejection. And then over time, the development of, because we've introduced BioPlex capabilities with multiple colors, the development of more complex panels in the oncology field. And so we see, you know, real potential over time in oncology and diagnostics.
Yeah.
Total market opportunity, we see over time with the right product offerings, assays, and segmentation can run to billions.
Mm-hmm. Yep. And with Continuum, maybe just talk about the rollout and the expectations we should kind of be looking at with that.
Yeah, so you know, they'll roll out around mid-year.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we certainly expect some uptake throughout, you know, third and fourth quarters. You know, will it be a needle mover for the year? Probably not. But I think it's an important launch for us, and, you know, we should start to make traction with that.
Okay. And I guess when you think about the digital PCR recovery path, is it just fully contingent? When you look at it, I guess what are the factors? You mentioned biotech funding, just biotech coming back. But when you look at the trajectory, obviously, you had those years of really, really strong growth. We don't know the exact growth numbers, but they were good. You know, how do you think about what catalyzes that recovery, if you could call out a few things?
Yeah, I mean, the funding cycles in biotech and biopharma are important to that, but also Sartorius's entry into the academic segment. And academic funding broadly seems good, but we've been a bit above the price point that they've typically been looking for. And, you know, so we're launching the, you know, the benchtop kind of, easy-to-use offering.
Mm-hmm.
but with the same performance profile.
Yeah.
That you get from the other instrument offering. So, but I'd say, that strong double-digit growth trajectory, you know, to get back to that on a sustainable basis would, you know, require biotech, biopharma to come back to more normal.
Yeah.
spending patterns.
Mm-hmm. Okay. And then another growth area that's slowed a little bit in life sciences is the process chromatography. Yeah, before we get into kind of specifics on the stocking and things like that, maybe just talk about, I guess, your offering. A lot of investors sometimes ask it, what do these guys actually do in process chromatography? Where do they fit versus other players in life sciences? Maybe just talk a little bit about the portfolio and what you guys offer on the process chromatography side.
Yeah, it's interesting. When you look at process chromatography, when you look at the kind of the whole process, I mean, there are lots and lots of steps in the process of, you know, purification, more purification, more purification. And when you get down to the end, that's where we are.
Mm-hmm.
In these kind of what we call polishing steps of the purification process. So, you know, probably typical little lower in terms of absolute volumes because, you know, you've gone from gallons to liters.
Mm-hmm.
but that's, that's where we play. That's our specialty.
Yep. And you guys have faced some, along with everyone else, obviously, some of the stocking impact. You know, maybe just kind of talk through where are we? What are you hearing from customers, and just the level of visibility here?
Yeah, so, I'd say typically, when we would enter a year, we'd probably have 70%-80% visibility to the pipeline or order book. Not the case, you know, ending last year, coming into this year, softer looking. And so as we look at this year, we still see that this is a recovery year for us.
Mm-hmm.
There are indications that some of our customers are kind of getting towards the end of their kind of inventory cleansing cycles. But then we've got, you know, at least two other pretty sizable customers that will take the full year to.
Mm-hmm.
Get back to normal inventory. So for us, overall, this is still transition on the revenue generated out of process chromatography. On the positive side, and this has often been asked, you know, we, we've not ceded any market share. We think we're improving our market position.
Mm-hmm.
But we've got another full year of inventory flush through to work through.
Okay. So on those two, I guess, process chromatography and digital PCR, it sounds like process chromatography muted for the entire year and the digital PCR maybe a little bit of a recovery. Is that?
Yeah, I would say that's, that's a good characterization. Process chromatography will still be lumpy just by its nature and the size of our business relative to, to others.
Mm-hmm.
We're more concentrated.
Mm-hmm.
We were talking with other folks earlier today, and, you know, we currently view that 25 and beyond will be much more in line with what the industry's been seeing in that part of the market.
Yeah.
Historically.
Right. And then, you know, maybe on the life science piece specifically, we'll get to clinical, obviously, in a little bit. Just the China outlook, obviously, it's a tale of two different tales there between those two. But I guess life sciences in China, how are you thinking about the backdrop there and, yeah, just expectations as we work our way through 2024?
Yeah, well, I think you have to look at it start with looking a little bit at the macro situation there. It's a little bit of a tough environment. You've got, you know, a lot of things going on domestically there, you know, high unemployment, real estate valuation issues. You know, I think there's still a kind of a recovery cycle there in China. I guess my view of the outlook is, you know, it's gonna be kind of slow-going for Life Science there for some period of time.
Mm-hmm. Yep. And is the exposure there any different? Is it similar where digital PCR and process chromatography are kind of what's slowed over there? Maybe just talk about kind of the, the backdrop of the portfolio there versus.
I think it's more overall slowing in China is my view.
Yeah, it's definitely slowed overall for the life science side of the business. But that has included digital PCR and process chromatography. We did, you know, we do have business there.
Mm-hmm.
for both platforms. And so, you know, the funding on the biotech, biopharma side in China is pretty tight right now. And I don't think it's experiencing the same influx that's going on right now, in the U.S.
Yep. Okay. Yeah, maybe we can flip to clinical for a bit. Maybe just kind of talk about what's happening there again. Obviously, quite different trends than the life science piece. If you can start broadly and then jump into products and geographies.
Yeah, I think that you know, in diagnostics, it's you know, it's pretty much returned to normal.
Mm-hmm.
You know, obviously, with COVID, there was tremendous disruption in the kind of the testing cycle for more routine testing. And that's pretty much stabilized, even to China.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, that's all smoothed out.
Yeah, maybe on China, you know, what do you guys see in there? Obviously, we get asked all the time about things like VBP, as I'm sure you do, anticorruption, things like that. So where do you stand on, on some of the one-time shocks and then, yeah, just the general sense for, for China this year in diagnostics?
Yeah. VBP has not really hit us in the same way it has the big platform plays.
Mm-hmm.
Clinical chemistry or immunoassay providers, you know, where they've had to come into kind of bake-off bids to win a region. So we've not been involved in those. We're watching it closely. I think the anticorruption side did kind of give pause last year. We're kind of more indirect for us, but it's certainly did slow things down. I, you know, it seems to have passed its zenith right now. But if there's more double down on those things, of course, it will impact business flow. But at the moment, it's less about anticorruption. It's much more, you know, the VBP threat. And at the moment, since we're more specialized, we're more niche, we're kind of on the periphery to that.
Mm-hmm. Okay. And I guess, you know, in clinical, there was a little bit of the transition from some of the European facilities to Singapore.
Mm-hmm.
You know, inventory, little bit of inventory build. Where are we on that front? How do you think about that, transition as we work our way, forward here?
Yeah, I think the transition has actually been very successful, you know, completely out of those two plants in France and really well embedded in our Singapore facility, you know. I think we're starting to see, you know, the advantages of the labor arbitrage and the productivity in Singapore.
Mm-hmm.
To those platforms. I think that going forward, we still got opportunities as we localize the componentry for those instruments. That will take a while because these are, you know, regulated platforms.
Mm-hmm.
but we've still got some pretty decent opportunity there.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I guess, you know, this seems like a first step. But, you know, I guess, how do you think about just that facility footprint as you look forward? You know, obviously, there's a lot of opportunities across the organization. But, you know, where would you put kind of this facility, you know, consolidation and shifting to lower-cost manufacturing? How big of an opportunity is that, and how do you see it playing out? Is it a near-term, mid-term, longer-term thing?
Yeah, I'll take that one, Patrick. I still think there's opportunity there.
Mm-hmm.
Without getting into too many specifics for perhaps obvious reasons. But, I do think there's opportunity. We've got quite a number of facilities around the globe. You know, it, it's not as simple as just saying, "We're gonna put that and that together," obviously, because of, you know, there's a broad portfolio and there's some very specialized manufacturing.
Mm-hmm.
It's easier on the instrument front. So we do have some initiatives that we're working through. I think they're measured in years, not months, of course.
Mm-hmm.
I think, you know, over the coming years, there's certainly opportunity for more improvement on the supply chain front.
Yep. Okay. Then maybe on, you know, the kind of the clinical customers, I think as you get kind of that more consumable benefit, you know, obviously, that's, that's a good tailwind for margins as well. How are you thinking about just the consumable instrument split inside the clinical business and, and how that fares throughout this year?
Yeah, I mean, normally, I guess we think of that as being, you know, kind of if I think about the instrument component and the reagent component, it's, you know, I think about it typically as being about a 70/30 split.
Mm-hmm.
instruments, 30, reagents, 70. You know, certainly, we've placed, you know, caught up with a lot of platforms this last year. So we should see some increased benefit from that this year in terms of reagent pull-through.
Mm-hmm.
that, that's our expectation.
Sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I guess maybe maybe we can look at the guidance for, for a little bit. You know, you kind of gave a little bit of a softer Q1 outlook as did a lot of peers. And then you, you have a pretty good ramp, you know, maybe on the revenue side first. Is it again, obviously, we talked a little bit about ddPCR. How much underlying improvement are you assuming versus comp dynamics? How, how do you guys think about just the setup for, for 2024 in terms of the revenue? And then we'll, we'll get to the margins.
Yeah, I think everyone benefits from the comp dynamics. So, and you're right, just to reaffirm soft Q1 on Life Science.
Mm-hmm.
Just to set a baseline, Clinical Diagnostics through the year is just gonna be a much more typical and more stabilized environment. So we've got that foundation. And then academic on Life Science is, you know, let's call it two-thirds of the business, roughly, and a much more stable environment. Funding seems generally okay. The real shift in the shape of the year is driven by the biotech, biopharma recovery.
Mm-hmm.
And yeah, and certainly, it's second-half bias, and building through the tail end of the year. You know, and that volume curve drives other elements to the P&L, right, as you track through on gross margin, mix effect, volume effect. You know, we're keeping a really tight handle on SG&A, on our operating expense side, making sure we're kind of in line with revenue as it comes back. We'll continue to just keep a close eye on that.
Yeah. Yeah, maybe on the margins, I mean, that was probably one of the bigger questions we got on the back of the report is, you know, just that margin ramp as you're working right through the year, off of 1Q. Can you guys just talk a little bit about, I guess, the moving pieces there, the visibility into margin sequence? I'm sure some of it's volume, but, yeah, maybe just kind of that build as we work our way through the year on the margins would be helpful.
Yeah, volume definitely is a key component. But mix also. Life Science business is above corporate average and Clinical just below. So, the mix effect will be, you know, meaningful as we progress through the year. And I think that's probably the larger effect overall on the shape of margins. Operating expenses this year, but we've had to jump over some big step-ups, and we couldn't fully offset them. I think we did actually pretty well on a good offset there. But I think that what you'll see is the shape will be driven by the volume ramp and mix of Life Science through the year.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I guess on the cost side, you know, you guys have obviously always been viewed as having a pretty good opportunity to bring down that cost structure and have some nice margins going forward. I guess, how aggressive can you be in the near term to maybe offset some of the softness and, you know, Andy, you touched on the SG&A piece. Just how do you think about just that expense control near term? And then, you know, we can talk a little bit about the out years. But yeah, I guess near term, how tight can you guys be there?
Yeah, I, I think we've got a pretty good handle on it at this point in time. It's a lot you know, the biggest cost driver is, is headcount. I think we're, we're managing it fairly well. You know, you-you've got the step-up, beginning Q2 on merit that comes in. Q1 starts with a step-up because of incentive comp true up year to year. So, so you've got those you kind of operating expense line dynamics to, to, to take care of. But, you know, I, I think we've got a really good line of sight to our cost center structure and the drivers in it. And, I think we've got good, good headcount discipline in place right now. And, and that, that really is the biggest driver of, of overall operating expense.
Yeah. I guess when you think about the out years, you guys obviously had the LRP, kind of adjusted it a little bit. How do you think about that margin opportunity? You know, is it still as compelling as we kind of all thought a few years ago? It was just this really attractive big growth. You know, cost basis is gonna keep coming down. How do you think about the big levers over the next few years on the margin side, particularly? Obviously, volume's gonna matter a lot, but just in terms of the infrastructure you guys have on the P&L.
Yeah, I think we still see that there's plenty of room.
Mm-hmm.
You know, obviously, with the pandemic, I think, you know, we think about that moving out.
Mm-hmm.
A little bit. But I think, you know, same thesis as we've had all along. I think that, obviously, we wanna wait and, you know, see how this year unfolds before we think about re-guiding for the future.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think the basic thesis is still very much intact.
Mm-hmm. And, I guess, you know, a natural segue to ask about, you guys don't have a CFO at the moment. How's that search going? What's the right, right timing to think about, a potential, person getting named?
Yeah, it's actually going really well. You know, you should expect to see something fairly soon.
Fairly soon. Okay. Like, I think did on the call, were you just kind of suggesting before the next quarterly call we'll have someone in place? Was that?
My hope is it's before the next quarterly call.
Okay.
So I don't have to read the script.
You did a good job. That, that's helpful. And then, yeah, I guess another question that comes up a lot, obviously, is the Sartorius piece. You know, maybe just give your latest, in terms of how you think about it. You know, you've been committed to it for a long time. But yeah, just your latest thinking and level of commitment there. Could you use it for other things? Is there ways to monetize it, or is it just kind of it is what it is until the trust dissolves?
No, I think that, you know, there are a lot of pieces to that puzzle, obviously. It does continue to be a very strategic asset for us. You know, just a question of finding alignment on being able to actually do the transaction.
Mm-hmm.
But in the meantime, it does represent really good dry powder for us and gives us a, you know, tremendous amount of optionality to do something else if something else came along.
Yeah, I guess on that point, I mean, how do you think about the landscape currently? I know you guys' tone shifted a little bit. You know, there was talks of larger deals and MOEs for a little bit. And then I think it was actually this time last year, we were sitting up here, and you guys kind of shifted towards, we wanna look at a little more midsize, $1 billion-$3 billion, $1 billion-$4 billion, whatever it was. You know, where are you landing currently? I know, you know, the deal's always hard to predict and hasn't been particularly active across the space. But what's your guys' perspective and appetite at the moment?
Yeah, I think we're still exactly in that same place. I think the difference is this year, it seems like, valuations may have come in a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
You know, there may be some more opportunities this year, relative to last year.
Okay. But still in that more midsize range?
Yeah.
Okay. And I guess what, what would be the trigger or the, the baseline for Sartorius to come into the mix in terms of using that for whether it's an acquisition or, or some sort of strategic, yeah, how do you think about just the?
Yeah, I think it would have to be something, you know, obviously, on the much larger size.
Mm-hmm.
that we came across.
Yeah. Okay.
In order to do something with that.
Yeah. Yep.
But we got plenty of dry powder ex the Sartorius stake.
Mm-hmm.
So, not a problem for us in terms of the cash we have on the balance sheet and our ability to lever up a little bit.
Yep. Yeah, and I guess on the on the cash on the balance sheet point, you know, deals are always a consideration. And then, then share repurchases, you guys have been far more active, in recent years than, than you were historically. I think you timed the market relatively well last quarter as well. So I guess it wasn't just a an alarm thing. So I guess how do you think about the appetite for repurchases? You know, the stock's still pretty attractive from our perspective.
Yeah, I think we're gonna continue to be opportunistic. It's, you know, it's part of our capital allocation strategy. And, you know, every quarter, we're kind of weighing that off against the, you know, organic opportunities and the investments in the business. But, yeah, it's gonna continue to be a part of the mix.
Okay. Yeah, and I guess on, on the organic investment opportunity, how do you think about the product pipeline? We talked a little bit about things like Continuum and, and ddPCR. At times, you've talked about Single Cell as well.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, maybe kind of highlight, you know, a few products we should keep an eye on over the next 12-18 months.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe some updates on some of those growthier potential spots.
Yeah, obviously, we invest a reasonably sized chunk of our sales into R&D. So we've got Continuum coming out this year, have a second-half contribution. We are launching our Single Cell play this year, which is a combination of the technology capabilities we acquired with Celsee, with droplet core droplet capabilities. That's coming into the market for second-year impact as well, second half of the year. We're doing a refresh on our Western blot next-generation imaging system this year. So on the Life Science side, those are the kind of, I'd say, major platform introductions. Lots of other, I'd call them smaller product line extension introductions, assays, and such like. Our clinical side has no major platform introductions. We are launching what we call IH-500 NEXT in the U.S. We did it ex-US last year, coming into the U.S. market this year.
It's just better capabilities for the immunohematology customer. Looking forward, we continue to invest in expansion of Droplet Digital PCR, improving our process chromatography offerings, moving digital PCR into the clinical side of the business, expanding our quality controls franchise, which is a very nice and consistently growing business globally. We're investing in the PCR|ONE, point-of-care or near-to-patient, fast turnaround multiplex molecular infectious disease platform.
Mm-hmm.
and that's a few years out.
Yeah.
From now.
Yeah.
So, we've actually got, honestly, more opportunities for R&D than we can actually chase.
Mm-hmm.
So, so I think we're in a pretty amenable position there. It's about execution and focus and, and getting these products into the marketplace.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and to your point on the R&D, I mean, is it I think you touched on it a little bit, but is the idea to keep R&D as a percentage of sales kind of around here?
I think it is. I think, you know, you'd like to notch it down if you could, but there's just too many compelling opportunities. I think what we really want to do is change the shape of the top line.
Yeah.
As a result of the investment.
Mm-hmm.
You know, one other thing to keep in mind on our R&D spend is we are not as active in M&A.
Mm-hmm.
Right, as other companies. And so we tend to spend a bit more on the organic side.
Mm-hmm.
It's a broad portfolio, so.
Yeah.
You know, some portion of that goes to retaining competitiveness in some of the, you know, let's call it more, traditional product areas.
Mm-hmm. Yep. So I guess in the outer years, kind of the old algorithm, you know, how are we thinking about the margin? Is it, you know, gross margin of SG&A? What was kind of the general split you guys were thinking about in terms of driving, you know, some of the expansion as we go forward?
In terms of the key metrics on SG&A?
Yeah.
Yeah, we got down to about 28.5, 29% of sales, when we had some sales peaks. And I think, you know, that, kind of demonstrates that we could achieve that if you get the right growth rates in some of the product areas.
Mm-hmm.
I think that's reasonable to target, to move there.
Mm-hmm.
Over the coming years, gross margin now has, you know, suffered a bit from volume mix and inflation.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and inflation is not going back at the moment, right? It's kind of still with us. So, you know, we were achieving 56%-57% gross margin. You know, and we'd target trying to get back there over the coming years through cost control, supply chain improvement, mix, and volume.
Okay. Then maybe just circling back on the M&A landscape, do you guys have a preference, Norman, from Life Science, Diagnostics? Are there certain verticals where you feel like, you know, maybe that makes more sense inorganically and that you feel underserved in?
So, you know, we're actually kind of indifferent. I mean, you know, there are opportunities really in both segments of the business. In the life science segment, I would say, you know, finding something more in the cell biology area would be interesting. But of course, there are opportunities to kind of bulk up our protein side and our DNA side as well.
Mm-hmm.
So, yeah, lots of opportunities there on the diagnostic side.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it could be a new vertical, or it could be kind of bulking up something we're currently doing. You know, we've done a couple of these. We've done this, PCR-one in the molecular area.
Mm-hmm.
and we've got the ddPCR opportunities going. Maybe there's something more we could do in the molecular area and ddPCR.
Mm-hmm.
In diagnostics. So yeah, lots of potential opportunities.
Yep. And would you guys be interested in kind of getting more towards kind of like the to your point, the molecular diagnostics point of care type world? Is that kind of in your realm, or do you feel like that's maybe a little bit?
Well, you know, the point of care is a pretty broad definition.
Sure.
I think point of care for us that's laboratory-based.
Mm-hmm.
where we can leverage our kind of global direct distribution system, would be those kinds of opportunities would fit.
Mm-hmm.
Something that's like point of care home.
Yeah.
We don't really have a good chance for.
Sure. Sure. That makes sense. And just at, you know, one or two minutes left here. Just on, I guess, kind of finishing on, on the margin ramp, I guess, you know, in terms of just the confidence level on that, you know, starting at lower level in 1Q, you know, I guess, what do you think of as the key, you know, drivers to hit that? And then, you know, when you think about the overall guide, you know, what are the, you know, maybe one or two things that could get you to the upside and, and one or two risks that you would highlight, when you think about the, the overall guidance range?
I'll take it.
All right.
I don't think I've got a huge amount to add to that, which we've already said. I think, you know, it is volume and mix driven.
Mm-hmm.
I think we've got a good line of sight to the budget from a cost control point of view.
Mm-hmm.
We're gonna be a little bit, let's call it, flexible on cost, meaning, if revenue ramp is ahead, you know, we'll maybe invest a bit more. If it's not, we won't.
Mm-hmm.
What's the biggest kind of, like, thing that would change the outcome for the year? It's really the biotech biopharma recovery, I think.
Mm-hmm.
When I think we've got the other areas, diagnostics, which is more than half the revenue base, is, you know, it's pretty predictable.
Yeah.
You know, China's a bit of a wild card for overall. The wild cards are the macros.
Yeah.
I think it's what we can see and control. I think we feel pretty good about.
Yeah. And maybe just quickly, just the pricing environment, how you think about this year?
Mm-hmm.
you know, what's layered into it?
I don't think it's quite as easy to take prices in the last two years, and particularly last year, you know, inflation was being rampant. We weren't able to fully offset inflation; at least we weren't. So this year, we're targeting a similar price impact realization as we did last year.
Mm-hmm.
We think we can do that. Of course, keep in mind that's more realization in Life Science than it is on the diagnostics side.
Right.
And so I think the customers have got, you know, moderate intolerance.
Mm-hmm.
For price this year.
Okay. That's fair. I think we just went over. Thank you guys so much for being here. Appreciate it.
Okay. Thanks for having us.
Thanks, Patrick.
Absolutely.
Cheers.
Appreciate it.
Thanks.