All right, great. Welcome, everybody. I'm Tycho Peterson from the Life Science Team. It's my pleasure to have Bio-Rad with us this morning. We have Norm and Roop. Ed Chung is here as well from investor relations. Roop, maybe I'm going to start with you. Would love to just hear a little bit more on your approach as you think about guidance, how you came to the 2024 guide, being unchanged. You do have a ramp in the back half. We can get to that later. But maybe just talk a little bit about guidance philosophy and long-term targets. You'd had some out there. How are you kind of thinking about those two?
Yeah, thanks for the question. So I joined April 15, so I had a couple of weeks before earnings, the Q1 earnings. And so the guidance the company already put out guidance at the beginning of the year. And part of this is there is already a management process by which the business is reviewed and guidance rolled up and considerations and these sort of things. So part of it was just integrating myself into that process, which obviously needed to do. The other part of that is really looking at what were the indicators that we were looking at because of the profile of how we expected things to ramp. And were there the positives to support keeping that kind of guidance outlook overall for the year?
And so as we went through that commercial review and overall balance sheet and P&L review through the entire financial area and outlook, felt there's enough green shoots or other aspects, positive signals to support being able to be within the range that we had defined at the beginning of the year. There's obviously a lot going on in the marketplace. There's a lot of things to be proven out, a lot of expectations in the second half of the year, similar in terms of our comments as others. And so I think as we get into the Q2 timeframe and readiness for the Q2 call, we'll have a much better perspective having that many more months under our belt as a company to really validate that full-year point of view or if anything needs to be adjusted more specifically.
I guess maybe thinking a little bit further out, if we think about kind of the midterm guidance, I know you'd kind of put that on hold. Should we expect updated kind of 2025 guidance between now and the end of the year, or should we wait till fourth quarter?
Yeah, I think for 2025, especially considering all of the different dimensions of the marketplace that are still evolving, it's more towards a fourth quarter call. I think the other point that I will make, we have a 2022, we introduced a model, kind of a longer-term model in 2022 at our investor day. I think based on the market conditions having evolved since that investor day, we'll have the opportunity to update that and we'll need to update that overall model in terms of what 2025 through the next few years could look like based on the latest market conditions as well.
Maybe one for you, Norman. Just kind of management. I think you said in the first quarter call, you have opportunities here to bring in fresh insights and ideas to the table. Maybe can you elaborate a little bit on that? And then also as we think about the new COO, what type of kind of profile you're targeting?
Yeah, I mean, certainly if I look back and think about kind of the management turnover and think about the folks that we've had, they've made obviously significant contributions to where we are today. And I think we continue to make progress in the past couple of years, progress in a time when we've had really significant disruption in our markets and operations. I think over that time, we put in kind of a number of initiatives, which are continuing. Our journey of transformation is certainly not complete. I think for us then, this idea of kind of a fresh set of eyes, fresh ideas, I think that accumulated experience that people bring is really important. So we're really looking forward to that as we go forward to see what we can do to kind of continue to accelerate the sales growth and improve the margins.
Are you willing to say anything on timing for the COO role? Are we close?
We're making good progress. As you might imagine, we're looking for kind of a broad set of management skills and industry experience, somebody who can drive, continue to drive this kind of operational excellence, good collaborative leader. Those are some of the principal things that I think about. Obviously, somebody who also has CEO potential, I think that's on our list. But we're obviously right in the middle of the search process and see where we end up.
Let's talk about digital droplet PCR. It's been a great growth driver for you guys. Slowed a bit recently. Obviously, there's Biopharma weakness. You're not alone. How do we get comfortable that it's a market issue? You've got obviously Qiagen, Thermo has a new box, Roche is out there. So get us comfortable. It's not a competitive issue. It's really a market issue.
Yeah, certainly. I think we've got certainly a very strong presence in the market that we've developed over these many years. And we got this kind of broad range of instrument offerings and really thousands of applications. I think as we think about the competition, we think about the kind of growth and so forth. I mean, there are really two factors as I see it. One is the market growth, which has been and continues to be double digits. And then, of course, there's competition. And while some of that growth does go to competition today, I think that we still feel good about, for example, our win-loss ratios. And I think there's still a kind of a robust market going forward.
How should we think about the Continuum launch? It's coming later this year. Talk a little bit about target customers, how we think about the ramp, and any risk of kind of freezing the market ahead of the launch.
You know, I guess I hadn't thought about this idea of freezing the market, although I do think we're going to have a very competitively positioned product when it comes out in Q4. And we do expect it to potentially have a meaningful contribution to 2025. I think just kind of stepping back for a minute and thinking about how this market has developed. We started out with kind of what I call a kind of a mid-range instrument. And the customer interest was in more features, more automation. So we kind of moved kind of up the value chain there. And then more recently, this idea of kind of an entry-level or kind of a lower-cost platform in the market has developed. And so that's where we've directed the efforts to the Continuum. And again, I think we feel pretty good about it.
Does it open up any new applications or customer sets? Could you also maybe just talk on pricing? Is there a pricing opportunity here?
Potentially, I think when all of these things are more and more democratized, it offers up new avenues of application. I think in this particular case, there's always been thought that this might actually start to eat a little bit into the qPCR market. We'll see what happens with that.
How about clinical for digital droplet? I mean, you talked about, I think, reproductive health, oncology. Can you maybe just talk about how those markets are emerging and evolving? And then the Curiosity deal, I know it's been two years. You did that for $170 million. Just talk a little bit about how that's tracked.
Yeah, okay. So we've got a couple of developments going on, as you mentioned, in the women's health area and in oncology. As you might imagine, these are longer-term projects because not only are we trying to advance the technology, but there's the regulatory overlay of diagnostics. But we continue to make progress on those dPCR-focused platforms. The Curiosity acquisition is a little bit different. It's a molecular biology entree for us, more focused on syndromic infectious disease testing. Again, it was an early-stage platform that we acquired. And it's going to take a little time to get it to market.
I guess, I mean, part of that strategy was moving beyond high-complexity labs. Have you started to kind of penetrate some of those customers?
With?
Moving beyond high-complexity labs with Curiosity.
No, not yet. I mean, it's still in development. So it's going to be a while.
Got it. What, I guess, timelines can you put on it and milestones?
It's going to be a couple of years till it sees the light of day.
Okay. And I guess anything you're willing to say on digital droplet revenues for next year? Obviously, you're not giving full-year guidance, but how should we think about kind of the trajectory next year?
Yeah, I think that this year it's been a little affected by the growth. It's been affected primarily by the biopharma biotech slowness. I would look for kind of a recovery next year in the Droplet Digital PCR area. Still tremendous potential.
I mean, could you see it sooner, just given the strong fundraising we saw earlier this year?
You know, I think it's possible. I think it's not going to be kind of an off and on kind of a situation. I think we're going to see kind of a gradual recovery. I think it's still anybody's guess what the slope of that curve is going to be throughout the rest of the year and into next year. But yeah, with the funding, I think there's a lot of positive signs.
How about sticking with biotech, just process media, it's less than 10% of revenues. It's been a nice growth driver. Can you maybe just talk about mix of business between CDMOs and distributors and biopharma customers and how we think about the evolution of that portfolio?
Yeah, yeah. For us, it's mostly large biopharma. That's basically where the business is. There's been some softness in that business having to do with destocking. And we're working through that. Our customers are working through that. So I think that all of that will normalize in 2025 is my expectation.
Just how about the second part of that on the portfolio? How do you see the portfolio evolution for that business?
The portfolio evolution for?
For process media.
Yeah. So we continue to develop materials. Our biggest piece there is around something called ceramic hydroxyapatite. We've introduced these kind of Nuvia resins that are gaining a lot of traction in the market. And then we've also kind of expanded into prepack columns. So a couple of new offerings to continue to broaden that market.
I guess visibility, you talked about the destocking dynamic. I think in the past, you've talked about kind of 75% of that business locked and loaded at the beginning of the year. I guess how do you think about your visibility now? And are there things you can do to try to improve that going forward?
Yeah. So the industry we serve has always been a little bit protective of their internal, their production volumes and so forth. I would say that through COVID and currently, I think we're getting a little bit better perspective on that, a little better communication. But in the meantime, we can look at the drugs that we are specked into. And we can see kind of what the trajectory of those is. And I think that gives us a pretty good sense of kind of where we are and that the market will recover.
I guess, is there anything to suggest 2025 wouldn't be a more normal year than from a cadence perspective for that business?
It would be a more normal year?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I think that's a fair thing to think.
I guess academic has obviously been a focus for you and peers. Maybe just talk a little bit about what you're seeing in the budget environment. Obviously, we've kind of got two-year cuts to NIH, NSF, Horizon getting cut as well. What's your outlook on the academic side?
Yeah. I would say it's kind of a mixed bag. I mean, the academic markets are significant for us. There's been a lot of talk about the biopharma market, but academia is important. The budgets this year, somewhat of a mixed bag again. NIH, obviously the key bellwether in the U.S., is effectively flat this year. Europe, some up, some down. Germany is a little bit more challenged. Places like the U.K. and France, flat. The Nordics, up. So again, kind of a mixed bag. And then Asia-Pacific, I would say probably a little bit soft overall. And obviously, China is a bit of a question mark.
Let's go there. Let's talk about, I guess, stimulus coming, broader program, longer duration, newer markets potentially. Talk about your exposure there maybe relative to the last round of stimulus and how you think about that opportunity.
Yeah, it's interesting. If I think of the last round of stimulus, it didn't really have much effect for us. These are basically government loans given to the provinces. And there wasn't a lot of uptake in that. And I think that, as I remember right, was a little more focused on our market areas. I think this package, I think it's a little bit bigger. But it's very much broader. So I don't know. My expectation is it won't have much of an effect for us. I've heard that others maybe have a different outlook on that. But we'll see.
Obviously, value-based pricing has been a focus in China as well. Can you just talk a little bit about your portfolio and whether your exposure there may differ from some of your diagnostic peers?
Yeah. The value-based pricing has not really affected us very much so far. We're a little bit more on the specialty end of the market with our products. We continue to watch that very closely. I think the other piece of that, of course, is kind of the academic markets. With all the in-China, for-China initiatives, I think that's going to continue to have a little bit of a dampening effect on growth in the China markets for international players.
Maybe just one more on kind of the academic side. So if we think about budgets maybe under pressure here in the near term, you're exposed to some areas that may be more protected, proteomics, single-cell. Can you just talk a little bit about whether those areas you think will continue to get kind of disproportionate funding maybe in a tough environment?
Yeah. I think that there's certainly interest in these areas. And there'll continue to be funding in these areas. And we continue, obviously, to look at those as opportunities.
Can you maybe just on capital allocation, thoughts on M&A? There's obviously a lot of dislocation in the market with some of the volatility here. How do you think about that? And are there particular areas that you're focused on from an M&A perspective?
Yeah. We really have broad interests across both life science and diagnostics. Continue to evaluate opportunities in all these areas. Yes, I guess there have been, curiously enough, a few more what I call distressed assets available recently. I mean, I guess so far none of them have really kind of piqued our interest. But we continue to look for M&A and organic opportunities, have a nice, healthy balance sheet to take advantage of those. But it's got to be the right fit for us.
You've historically done bolt-ons. How do you think about opportunity for larger deals, something more material?
Yeah. We certainly have the capacity to do that. With all the kind of advances we've made in the kind of operational improvements we've done over the last few years, I think we're well positioned to do something more meaningful. But again, it's got to be the right fit. We've got to be very sure that we can successfully integrate it.
I guess, are you willing to take on dilution if you have a creation 2-3 years out? I mean, how do you think about that?
Yeah. We would be willing to take on dilution, but only on a very short-term basis, not on a long-term basis.
Margins, maybe we could touch on that route and just kind of how you think about the longer-term opportunity. We talked about the fact you've kind of put 25 midterm guidance on hold. But how do you think about the margin opportunity over the next couple of years?
Yeah. I think there's a strong margin opportunity. I think it's multiple fold. Part of it is top-line growth that'll flow through from a margin expansion standpoint. I think the other part of that from a revenue standpoint is mix. Obviously, life sciences tends to have a little stronger margin for us versus the clinical diagnostic side. So that's another aspect of it that we're focused on. Then when I look at our sales and operations alignment, factory execution, driving lean operations throughout our global presence, there's margin enhancement opportunities in all of those areas as well. And then the other part is productivity improvements through the OpEx area, which I think we're evaluating. And there's things for us to take on potentially there.
The other part of it is just that top-line growth will give us leverage, cost structure leverage overall, which all will drive both that gross margin, but obviously flowing through to that operating margin standpoint. All of that improved margin performance then will support cash flow generation or improve cash flow generation, which is another area of focus for us.
I guess on top line, is your view on pricing, is the opportunity there fairly consistent with what you've kind of seen historically? Or do you think there's opportunity to get better on price?
I think there's an opportunity for us to do better from a pricing standpoint. I will say the more recent past with the inflationary pressures, those weren't normal times. But there's always continuous inflationary pressure that we need to be mindful of. But I think our overall, we have an opportunity from a pricing discipline standpoint to help support margin expansion as well.
Maybe just thinking about the setup for the back half of this year, not to be too myopic, but the street's got low double-digit growth that compares to kind of 6%-7% historically in the back half of the year. Maybe just talk about your comfort level there and any variables to spike up.
Well, I think the variables we spoke about earlier in terms of some of the drivers for that outlook. I think first and foremost, from a biotech funding standpoint, that funding has started to flow through, but hasn't translated or hadn't translated as of our Q1 call into orders yet. I think we need to see that flow through and evolve to becoming orders on that side. The biopharma destocking standpoint, that's still an open question on the rate of that. And the other piece is the academia with the budgets in place. And as Norman articulated, it's different based on the world. But how that continues to profile through the year in terms of that spend, now that the budgets have been approved, and what's that slope of the curve, if you will, on that spend will all be influencers towards that back half of the year.
I guess similar question on margins, kind of 500 basis points step up. Can you maybe just talk a little bit about, is that all volume and top line? Or are there kind of some of these initiatives you hit on earlier potentially going to drive some of that?
It's both. It's volume, obviously. Part of that's also the mix of that. But then it's some of these initiatives that also spoke of.
A couple of questions on Sartorius, Norm. So there have been a number of scenarios here discussed, potentially selling the shares, spinning them off in some ways for investors to get a stub. Can you maybe just talk a little bit about the range of scenarios in your view and how we should be thinking about the path forward?
Yeah. So I think that today we look at the stake as really as a success, maybe a successful investment. It gives us a lot of optionality, dry powder. Obviously, if the stars align sometime in the future, it could be a strategic option for us. But today, again, I think we think of this as a monetizable asset.
Maybe just stepping back, the portfolio, the diagnostic business has obviously held up fairly well, volatility on the life science side given some of the budget stuff. Maybe just talk about the durability of your diagnostic portfolio and how you think about that.
Yeah. It's interesting. Certainly during COVID, when there was kind of a lot less focus on kind of fundamental health maintenance, that market did suffer a little bit. But I think it's kind of back to normal. I think that through the pandemic, I think there's an increased recognition of the value of diagnostics. And so I think the outlook is pretty good for.