With PowerTrain dominant supplier, BorgWarner. Today we have the pleasure of basically three members of management: Joe Fadool, CEO of BorgWarner; Craig Aaron, CFO; and obviously longtime industry friend, Pat Nolan within investor relations. You know, maybe we kick it off, Joe, just a 60-second intro. People know who BorgWarner is, but just a little bit of background, and obviously, you know, you're stepping into the new role.
Yeah, first, thanks, Chris. Great to be at this conference. Yeah, I've been with the company about 15 years, been through most of the business units, and just recently taken over as CEO. You know, maybe for some background.
Yeah.
What has BorgWarner been up to since the beginning of the year? First of all, we could not be more pleased with our performance in the first quarter. We outgrew our end market, strong margin performance, and really good free cash flow. For us, you know, despite all the headwinds and turmoil that is going on, you know, our teams continue to navigate through some of these near-term uncertainties, and I am confident they will continue to be able to manage through it, including the tariff environment. I know tariffs will come up quite a bit. It is in the news every week. You know, for BorgWarner, as of last week, we continue to look at all the news coming out of Washington.
Yeah.
We're actually tracking a little bit better than our prior estimate, which was a gross impact on sales of about 1.6%. So, real pleased with where that direction is headed. You know, for us, the big takeaway is tariffs are a manageable issue. It really is more what is the uncertainty around customer demand.
Yeah.
What does that mean for the production environment, especially in the second half? In good BorgWarner nature, we're focused on the things we do control, and that's, you know, driving financial performance and continued outgrowth market, increment in the mid-teens, and then drive strong free cash flow, which, you know, is good for our shareholders.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one of the things we commented on, on Q1, and both Joe and Craig, I really do appreciate the detail you gave is I thought you gave one of the highest levels of disclosure into, look, it's an uncertain world, but, you know, we're gonna try to prepare somewhat for the worst. I think even your North American production guidance is down 7-12%. Hopefully, we're gonna do a little bit better, that, and then you also gave the tariff number that you mentioned, Joe, so that's really helpful. You know, maybe one of the ways that we can start off with the tariff discussion.
You know, last year, we, I spent a lot of time with you, and I love the idea of this BorgWarner back to basics, right? You know, talking about essentially a well-positioned regional ePowerTrain mix, regardless of what ICE or EV speed we've seen. I think really tariffs is more about North America. Can you talk a little bit about some of the trends outside North America where it's probably a little bit less impacted, right? If we think about China, you saw growth in Q1. We think about Europe, where we're starting to get an EV year. Maybe we could talk a little bit about regional trends, you know, before we have to get into sort of the uncertainty of North America.
Sure, no, happy to. And you're absolutely right, BorgWarner being a global propulsion player. Sometimes we get, you know, more defined by what's going on in North America, but when you think about electrification.
Yeah.
It is playing out more regional, and I think it really speaks to our resilient portfolio we have built, especially over the last five or six years. You know, whether our customers want a pure combustion product or a hybrid or a, a BEV, we have got the right portfolio to serve them. If you think about, specifically China, where electrification is playing out at a fairly rapid rate, you know, NEVs are reaching 50% of that market, which is both hybrid and electric. We are performing quite well. I mean, just for some context, 20% of BorgWarner's revenue comes from China. And when you break that down further, 75% of that revenue is with the domestic OEMs, which is slightly overweight.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we've been in China for over 30 years. We have great customer intimacy there, and, you know, when we look at that market, it's really leveraging our entire portfolio.
Mm-hmm.
In Europe, electrification is playing out a little bit more slowly.
Yeah.
It is still growing there. And if you look at some of our wins across our portfolio, you know, you can see we're winning across the entire portfolio, and a lot of our launches are in Europe and in China. Here in this market, it's playing out more slowly.
Yep.
Right? And we expect that slow growth to continue. The good news is we've got a great combustion portfolio, and we're number one or number two in nearly every one of those products. So, you know, whether customers or the market is demanding C, H, or E, we think we're in a great position. I think some of the announcements of new business that we shared in the first quarter are a great example of that.
Just to remind people who are less familiar, you know, even though you have balanced growth in a, you know, we look at Europe, for example, in a strong E, NEV year, it could be up 25% or maybe even 30% this year to hit regulations, you do see a topline pickup, meaning you have a commitment to do incremental margins regardless of where it comes from ICE or EV. You do see a topline pickup on the growth over market in a good EV or like, like in Europe, right? Is that a great example of this will be a, probably a strong contributor from Europe?
No, you're right. First quarter, you know, our light vehicle e-product sales were up 47%.
Yeah.
which I think is, is proof that we're participating across the globe, and especially in China. You know, you mentioned the Shanghai, or what's playing out in the regions.
Yeah.
I was recently in Shanghai, and I'm really pleased with how our teams are performing there.
Sure.
How we're participating in that growth.
Yeah. And then my follow-up on China is the exact one. If you read my, you know, China ponderings, we talked a lot about, I know you can't talk about specific OEMs, but I once did a sort of a backdoor kind of a calculation that you do have one of the best exposures to a mega giant like BYD, and that's obviously evident in your 75% exposure. Can you talk about some of the products that are driving China, both from on the ICE business? I mean, you have a good, you know, kind of a PowerTrain business to BYD through sort of the PHEV and some of the products that you're driving on pure, pure BEV as well.
Yeah, we don't comment generally on any specific customer, but let's just say BYD is a very good customer of BorgWarner.
Mm-hmm.
We serve them on both the foundational side and the e-side. That market, just as a reminder, is the largest automotive market in the world, 30 million vehicles. And as we mentioned, you know, it's 20% of our total sales.
Yeah.
Our customer diversification is actually one of our strengths.
Yep.
You know, we're not too weighted or underweighted on any particular customer. So, you know, as those customers succeed or maybe slow down in the market, it doesn't really affect us, like maybe some of our competitors.
Exactly.
We think it's a great strength of the company.
And particularly when I think of China, less so because it's not really a thing yet in North America, but extended range EVs, plug-ins kind of plays to BorgWarner's strength because you can kind of give the broad portfolio of the BorgWarner, you know, product exposure.
That's right. We call those advanced hybrids.
Mm-hmm.
When you think about plug-in hybrids or even range extenders.
Yep.
You know, we announced, in the past year, our wins on the range extenders, which is a, you know, new and I would say even emerging style of hybrids, but it leverages the same great products we have.
Mm-hmm.
You know, all of these advanced hybrids, they need an inverter, they need a boost function, they need a motor and a drivetrain. For us, you know, those are great market products that, you know, we continue to win with.
Excellent. Just because we have to, could we do the tariff 101, sort of the review, because I think it's still confusing for everyone. What we learned from most suppliers is, you know, we're getting coverage on where we're not compliant. My quick review, and tell me if I'm wrong, Craig, is basically, 1.6% in revenue is basically your recoveries that you're gonna pass through from covers you, from companies, from your customers. You think you're gonna get most of that. It's dilutive, right, to the tune of 20 basis points simply because it's a pass-through. The math, what percentage of your content is USMCA compliant, and are there any tariffs that you're not getting recoveries for or that may be difficult, meaning it's a negotiation or it's a to be determined?
Yeah.
I know there's a lot there, but it's the one that everyone always asks about.
Sure. I just wanna reemphasize a couple of the points that, you know, Joe brought up, which is you're right, 1.6% of sales was our original estimate that we shared with analysts in our April call. We do see that number coming down for a couple reasons. One is our teams are doing a fantastic job coming up with great solutions to mitigate tariffs.
Yep.
Great job by our teams.
Win-win for everyone in the chain.
Everybody. Also, executive orders have changed.
Yep.
We're incorporating that into our estimates. We'll provide a much more robust.
Yep.
View as we get into our next earnings call. As you think about pass-through, you know, our goal is to pass through that, that any impact that we can't mitigate to our customers, and we're having active dialogues with all of our customers. We're working through that process. Some of those dialogues are moving faster than others, but that's okay. We know how to navigate this. We've done it before with inflation and other headwinds. I think we're doing a fantastic job from a management perspective. When you think about USMCA compliance, just a couple numbers, when we import material from Canada, we're 100% compliant.
Mm-hmm.
From Mexico, about 70% compliant. I think for the audience here, the key takeaway, and Joe already emphasized that this is a manageable issue for us. We're gonna navigate it quite well. It's really industry production in the second half of the year.
Yeah.
That we're most worried about.
Yep.
That's the 7-12% in North America, Chris, that you mentioned earlier. We are watching that really closely. The good news is our production schedules held up quite nicely in the second quarter. We have not seen that headwind yet, but again, we gotta watch Q3 and Q4 pretty closely.
No, that's perfect. It actually leads into my next production question. You know, we're gonna have our forecasting partner here, GlobalData. We've all seen that the schedules haven't changed too much over the last couple months. We saw that initial sort of weakness where everyone's being a little bit more cautious, simply because of the uncertainty. One of the things that we've heard anecdotally is that the visibility, you know, particularly from OEMs, is shortened, meaning no one wants to go out eight weeks. It's more four to six weeks because of the obvious uncertainty. Can you talk about call-off volatility or anything that could be a detriment?
'Cause we do see the numbers, which aren't that bad, but I'm, I'm more worried, you know, behind the scenes, is it, is it more volatile, or more uncertain than, than we can see?
Mm-hmm. You wanna take that or you wanna take that?
I would just say when you look at second quarter, you know, we're performing exactly as we.
Yep.
Thought. The call-offs are there. The sales are there. You know, the back half is what you're talking about is less certain.
Sure.
We need a few more months to, you know, see what that looks like.
Yep.
You're right, OEMs have gotten a little more careful.
Yeah.
'Cause they're trying to manage to.
They're waiting to see what the end result and rules are gonna be like in the summer.
Right. I am confident regardless of what the environment is.
Yep.
Our teams are, you know, very experienced at navigating through those ups and downs, whether it's headwinds like tariffs, some other crisis that pops up, or it's lower production volume.
Okay.
We like to talk about the resilience of our business, and our teams are pretty resilient. You know, we've navigated into a lot of difficult situations over the last handful of years. As Joe mentioned, we know how to navigate different environments. Whether it's up a little bit or down a little bit, we'll execute quite well. I think we're both confident of that.
Yep. And just that, you know, that same sort of question, the one I, the reason I feel like that is not getting the same potent is like Europe is, see the sales are a little bit better, production's holding up. I think it's the surprise. I think we always are fearful that Europe's always gonna have another, another down year. Anything, is that the same comment that it's sort of as planned or?
Yeah, Europe's performing well. You know, we don't see any dip there in the second quarter that's unmanageable. You know, I think, again, this is a global business. The uncertainty that exists in the second half isn't just related to North America. It also applies to Europe. We're really pleased with how the second quarter's playing out. It really comes down to the second half of the year.
Okay. Perfect. I wanted to take a step back now, almost to that, that back to BorgWarner basics kind of thesis. You used to talk about, and you still do, your business as sort of two parts, foundational and, and everything electrified. When I look at the numbers high level, and they can kind of move around, you know, the ICE volumes globally will come down, I don't know, low to mid-single digits depending upon the year. And your goal is to sort of offset that by a couple of points, which ultimately means that foundation could kind of be a flattish business, give or take. And then you grow your topline with the electrified business and hope to, I think, always outgrow each of those foundational and electrified. Can you, is that a fair way to think about the business?
'Cause I try to sometimes summarize it too.
Mm-hmm.
Generous where it seems like there's multiple moving parts, but ultimately you could have a flat foundation business and then, you know, pretty strong growth as the world at whatever pace by region grows, you know, with, you know, a plug-in and an electrified future.
That is a right way to view it. You know, for us, what's important is that we outgrow our end markets.
Mm-hmm.
For the combustion businesses or what we call foundational businesses where we're number one or number two, we wanna see them outgrow the C plus H side of that.
Mm-hmm.
Okay? When it comes to the e-products, same thing. We take the H plus E end market, and we wanna see outgrowth there. You know, fortunately, we continue to see outgrowth across both sides of the portfolio. This was a change we made nearly a year ago in our strategy.
Yeah.
that we wanna leverage growth across the entire portfolio. We still see great opportunities. I think the announcements we made in the first quarter across.
Yeah.
The portfolio and some of the wins kind of speaks to that.
Yeah, 'cause I think sometimes, like, the mind share for investors, we're investors, we're gonna go back to remembering the growth in the ICE business, the turbocharger and basic fuel efficiency if we have a, you know, a longer ICE kind of roadmap in North America, for example.
That's right. In fact, some of our, you know, penetration rates, which is something we look at for some of our technologies, is actually quite below Europe and China.
Yeah.
If you take turbochargers, which runs a little bit under 50% penetration, we expect to continue to see outgrowth of turbochargers. When it comes to variable cam timing, same thing. There is still a need for fuel efficiency. Customers also, you know, pocketbooks are tight, and that's one of the things they look at when they buy a vehicle is, okay, what kind of fuel economy do I get? We still think there are good futures for some of those combustion products.
And maybe since we're on the topic of electrification, we could talk about portfolio review, some of the actions you took in Q1. You made the decision to exit EV charging, which was not really getting up to scale. As you discussed, you also consolidated some of the North American battery systems where business has been maybe a little bit weak where you have obviously the change in regulations in the U.S. I think when people think of BorgWarner, they think of execution. You already talked about, I think it is a $30 million tailwind to EBIT on a full run rate basis by next year.
Could you just talk about the logic of continual review, you know, how you thought about taking some of the actions, and how quickly you move when maybe a business is underperforming like charging?
When we think about that charging business, you know, I think it's a good example of the discipline we're bringing to the portfolio. You know, the market assumptions, especially in Europe and North America, changed.
Mm-hmm.
Around charging, we were not getting to scale that we expected. The bottom line is, you know, we want to see these businesses become profitable in the midterm. We are not willing to wait long, long periods of time. You know, we took the difficult decision to exit that business. I think it is a great example of the discipline we bring and what you can expect when we look at future investments to strengthen the portfolio.
Perfect. Doug, do you wanna ask?
Yeah, definitely. Maybe outside of the sell-out coming from charging, and I know you said the $1.6 million in recoveries is now lower due to some of your internal solutions. Can you, what are some of those solutions? What are the buckets? You know, what have actually been the levers that you've been able to pull to maybe have more success than your peers, on, you know, getting those recoveries on your own?
Yeah. First of all, some of it has to do with the executive orders that, you know, soften the requirements a little bit. When it comes to mitigation, the first thing is getting to USMCA compliance. That's the biggest lever any supplier is using. As you get compliant, you know, those tariffs get reduced dramatically. There are other mitigation efforts, you know, where we are sourcing components to mitigate some of the tariffs. I would say the third one is working through the tariff requirements themselves. You know, the devil is in the detail, and you have to really get down to a part level and work through to make sure, you know, you're using the extent of the law in every way you can to make sure you're only paying what is due on the tariff.
Our teams are really focused on going through those details, finding those ways to mitigate. In the event that we can't mitigate those in the short term, that's where we're having discussions with our customers, which are moving quite well. All of our customers are participating in those discussions. Some of the customers we've closed deals with, we're very happy with that, and others are taking a little bit longer due to their process.
Maybe just a couple items to add. You know, when you think about what are we focused on at BorgWarner, it's what we can control and driving operational excellence through our business units. And you see that in our numbers.
Mm-hmm.
You know, when we exited the first quarter, our margin was at 10% including tariffs, 10.2% excluding tariffs. When you look at our performance over the last year, we've been at 10% or above for every quarter. There are a few levers that we are really focused on. You know, we've continued to restructure our business, take cost out, become more competitive when customers look for our solutions. Really important. Supply chain savings, productivity, all of those items are critically important. We have to continue to focus on taking costs out of our business to stay competitive, but also to drive incremental conversion in the mid-teens, which is our ultimate goal.
Yeah. And Craig, if I could follow through, 'cause I, I think in that BorgWarner basics, framework, which is so compelling, is, is growth from, from either side, you know, gets you into the mid-single digits and then, you know, compounding that, on incrementals in the mid-teens. When we look at the segmentation for the divisions, though, it seems like the, the foundational business, if you can keep it flattish, is to keep those margins where they are. I think years ago, everyone looked at the, the great margins. We were worried if they were to come down. That does not seem to be the case. That would be sort of question number one.
Is it fair that, because you're coming from a lower base and you have more restructuring, that some of the more e-businesses will actually maybe see, you know, incrementals in certain years when revenue's better above mid-teens? Obviously that averages out to incrementals in the mid-teens across all four divisions.
Yeah. I mean, we think about each of our divisions in the same way. You know, we have two primarily focused foundational business units, two primarily focused e-product business units. The goal is increment in the mid-teens, increment in the mid-teens. They're gonna use those various cost drivers.
Yep.
To get there. I think that that's the right way to think about it. We've seen really great performance on the foundational side of the business, taking costs out, productivity, restructuring, and we're seeing the benefits of that through our margin profiles.
Yeah.
For those businesses. When you look at the first quarter, a lot of our growth came from power drive systems.
Yeah.
E-product business. 47% growth is what Joe mentioned, and they incremented in the mid-teens, which is exactly what we wanna see.
Yeah.
We did announce a restructuring of that business last year.
Of course.
That was a great evidence point for us that we got that cost structure right.
Yeah.
As we continue to grow in that business, which we can, which we 100% expect, we have the right cost structure to make sure we increment in the mid-teens.
Yeah.
That's how we're thinking about it.
I mean, if I read that, that answer literally is the foundational business, 'cause we get this question all the time. It's my sneaky way of, of sort of.
Yeah.
You know, jumping into a second question, is that those elevated margins aren't gonna come down because it's an older portfolio product. The pricing, we always get, oh, shouldn't pricing then get worse, 2-3% per year? If growth is flat, margins are gonna stay high in the foundational divisions. Is that a fair assumption?
Volumes are critically important.
Yeah. Exactly.
Of course, for any business. If volumes stay reasonably flat, we expect to maintain our margin profile.
I think it's important, to maybe step back and look at how we're running the company.
Yeah.
You know, it's to outgrow those end markets. It's to expand margins, and it's to drive strong free cash flow. You know, businesses are gonna ebb and flow, but when you think about.
Of course.
How Craig and I are leading the business overall, we wanna drive outgrowth and we wanna expand margins at the same time. That is what we're focused on. Different businesses have different levers at any particular time to do that.
Perfect. I have my China question penciled in here, and we discussed a bit on your mix to start. I mean, Joe, given what could be now an increasingly China domestic starting to move into export margins. You know, BYD, for example, discussed going from 700,000 units to 4 million units of non-China. From a high-level strategy, do you think your portfolio is in the right place for that? Meaning that the relationships of BorgWarner to the Chinese domestics will maybe be even better in some of these export markets? Or is there anything that you have to do about your business if China becomes a bigger player outside of China that you may have to sort of, you know, move your feet on more?
We love this question. As I said, you know, we've been in China for over 30 years, and the domestics are a big part of our business there. We are focused on winning in China because as we win in China, we're in a great position to support them, whether they're exporting products, which, you know, we got a tailwind last year on our four-wheel drive business due to the export business.
Yep.
From some of those OEMs, or as they begin to localize. We have got the footprint, we have got the knowledge of the local markets and the regulations and the workforce, to help them localize.
They tend to up content as well when they, when they localize outside of China.
Yeah. If you think about OEMs, when they localize, you know, they start to do it with kits first.
Yep.
Some sort of knockdown kit, and then eventually they start to localize the systems and then the components. So, you know, it's gonna take some time for that localization to play out. But fortunately, since we're so strong inside of China, we're participating in a meaningful way on their export business. So we think it's less of a threat. It's more of an opportunity for us to continue to support them as they grow.
and then maybe we can end for me on capital allocation where you've also been disciplined, but it does seem like there's more of a commitment to a repurchase. One, how would you characterize if there was a summary statement to basically how you're thinking about capital allocation over the next couple of years? And then maybe I could do a quick follow-up.
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you wanna start, you know, elaborate.
Sure. Yeah. Joe mentioned it right from the beginning, balanced out capital allocation approach. That's one of our major goals. When you think about where is BorgWarner from a balance sheet perspective, we're in a great position. You know, we look at our liquidity, specifically our cash balance. We had $2 billion of cash at the end of the year, $1.7 billion at the end of the first quarter, and we're projecting at the midpoint of our guide to generate another $700 million.
Mm-hmm.
In free cash flow. The goal with our liquidity and our free cash flow is create shareholder value, and we're gonna do that through a balanced capital allocation approach. You know, we're in a great position to continue to have a strong dividend, that we sustain. We don't turn it on.
Mm-hmm.
We don't turn it off. So that's a fixed obligation. That's how we think about it. We're gonna continue to look at opportunistic share repurchases. You mentioned it last year.
Yeah.
We repurchased $400 million, and we're not afraid to use that as an option to generate shareholder value. Then we'll look at M&A, and I'll turn it over to Joe to talk about, hey, what are our M&A priorities? How do we think about M&A, as we look at each individual targets?
M&A continues to be an important tool in our toolbox. You know, when we think about M&A on a go-forward basis, you know, there are really three criteria we are using to evaluate each of these targets. First is it has to make industrial logic sense. It has to leverage our core competence. We are always asking the question, how can we strengthen our existing portfolio?
Mm-hmm.
The second is we wanna see near-term accretion. So, you know, we had to do some heavy lifting the last five or six years, but our portfolio's in a lot better position now.
Yep.
Near-term profitability and accretion is really important. Then finally, how do we value that business? It is important that we run a lot of different scenarios, but at the end of the day, we do not want to overpay.
Yep.
On an asset. If you wanna think about it, we've really opened up the aperture.
Yep.
Of what's possible, especially with all the turmoil. You know, we're in a unique position.
Yep.
To execute upon, something very attractive. When it comes to the decision itself, we've raised the bar, and we're really looking to value those assets properly. In fact, you know, since we've been doing this the last few months, Craig and I together and our team, there's a number of assets we looked at, and they didn't meet the criteria.
Yep.
We moved on from them. You know, I'm really pleased with our process today.
Joe and Craig, that's a great, great overview 'cause I think Pat and I have discussed. I think in the market there's been, you know, some confusion about the type of deals you do. When I think about an accretive deal, immediately, that sort of gets a very specific type of deal. It doesn't have to necessarily be bolt-on. It could theoretically be a larger deal, but that's a tight limiter on a deal. I think the view from investors is that M&A has been somewhat problematic for the industry over the last decade because of some of the growth stumbles. Whereas, you know, the M&A that was the decade before, bolt-on, accretive, tended to be great. It tends to work out.
I think that, I'm glad you're able to add the accretion as the number two because I think that sort of, you know, gets a very concise type of deal. And you're saying there's no size limiter, but that's a very important sort of classification.
I think when you, when you think about BorgWarner and what our goal is, is drive operating income higher.
Yes.
That's, so whether it's an inorganic investment or organic investment, we're always looking at return on invested capital and making sure that our operating income is growing over time 'cause ultimately the value of our company is, is only as good as the operating income that we generate and the free cash flow that we generate.
Absolutely.
Those are main metrics that we have to keep our eye on to make sure that we're fundamentally growing those metrics that we believe will drive long-term shareholder value, as we move forward.
The only thing I'd add is just when you think about the cash flow, you talked about capital allocation.
Yes.
Fundamentally, what are we trying to achieve with our cash flow generation? We wanna create additional shareholder value. Whether or not it is forms of return on capital.
Mm-hmm.
Going back to our shareholders or inorganic investments would bring accretion, i.e., more earnings power to the company. You're trying to, additional to growing the earnings power of the company organically, use that cash flow to through means that are gonna create additional value for shareholders. That's the goal.
Perfect. I have a follow-up on free cash flow. I wanna open it up to the audience for questions to start.
Yeah.
BorgWarner's last issue comments that they are looking at, like they've made notice with the consumer, there's maybe less focus on sort of what's under the hood in terms of powertrain and like they're, you know, conscious of one way to get costs out potentially might be looking at partnerships and further outsourcing of drivetrain and powertrain performance in general. Is that something that could be an opportunity for your business going forward in North America? Are you seeing some of those conversations start? Experience there?
We saw the announcement, and, you know, a few OEMs have started to, you know, question where can they bring the most value.
Yep.
Usually the answer comes back to the areas where the customer, you know, cares and pays for at the end. Yes, it is an opportunity for us. You know, we do a lot of great components like turbochargers and friction material, but we've also stepped into systems. You know, we do complete drivetrains, complete integrated drive modules, especially for hybrids and EVs. You know, this question about insourcing, if you go back a few years, has always been a question on the east side.
Yeah.
We've always felt strongly that, you know, we're gonna be able to build scale more than any one particular OEM. And, you know, for us, we're starting to see that some of the OEMs are also wanting to leverage that. We think, we think that is a long-term opportunity.
Anyone else?
Maybe on consolidation, which typically comes as a question on the east side. Are you seeing any of the smaller players fall out, struggle? And do you think, you know, in medium term, five years from now, that we need to see some consolidation given that, you know, obviously foundational, your share I think is in the thirties in a lot of the products, whereas it's maybe half that, just given the fragmented nature of the e-business right now?
I mean, in most industries, what tends to happen, especially as, you know, you reach peak on a segment and then it starts to decline, the strong players survive. You know, we're number one or number two in all those foundational products. So, we expect, you know, you're gonna see some weakening of some of the smaller players. Those are great opportunities for us, not just from an M&A standpoint, from an organic standpoint.
Yeah. Absolutely.
You know, our, when our teams smell blood in the water, they're on it. You know, we've won a number of conquest businesses, which will eventually come to production. The market will require some consolidation. Also on the east side, you know, very few people are making money on the e-product side. It is inevitable that over time there will be some consolidation.
Do you have a sense for typically on the E side where you mostly see in bids, like the two or three players that you, the largest players that you typically go up against for E-products?
Yeah. I mean, it's different by product.
Sure.
You know, being a large company, we play in a lot of different segments. So for any particular product, you know, there's always a couple of usual suspects.
Okay.
That show up, around the globe, and that's independent of F or E. You know, our teams know how to compete. We know how to reduce costs, bring competitive technology. At the end, what we're focused on is really outgrowing those end markets, and our teams are well aware of that.
Okay. Great. If not any more questions, thank you gentlemen so much. Thank you BorgWarner for participating. We'll be back in a couple minutes with our friend Matt Axe from our policy team to talk about that little thing called tariffs.
All right.
Excellent.