Oh, there we go. Great. All right, everyone. Thanks for bearing with us. If any of you don't know me, I'm Ben Budish. I cover the U.S. brokers, asset managers, and exchanges here at Barclays. For one of our last firesides of the day, really delighted to have from Cboe, we've got Craig Donohue, CEO, Rob Hocking, Head of Derivatives, Jill Griebenow, CFO, and Prashant Bhatia, EVP, Head of Enterprise Strategy. So everyone, thanks so much for being here.
Thank you.
All right. Let's jump into it. Craig, you're almost 18 months into the seat as CEO. Cboe's strategy has shifted a bit over the past few years, coming out of a period of heavy acquisitions to a more recent, sharper focus on things like index options and data. For you, with some time in the seat now, can you talk a little bit about your assessment of Cboe? How do you think about the growth strategy? Where do you see the biggest opportunities?
Okay. Yeah. Thank you. It's great to be here, and thank you for having us. I'm really pleased with how things have gone. I decided to come back to the industry and come to Cboe because I thought that to some degree, it was a transformational type opportunity, which I really love. That has proven itself to be the case, not only internally within Cboe, which is what I'll talk about, but then also just the external environment and the way that it's evolved very rapidly over the last 12 to 18 months. There's a lot going on. I'm loving being here. We spent quite a bit of time early on in my tenure, really sorting through the whole portfolio of businesses at Cboe. Cboe had been, as you mentioned, very acquisitive, had been trying to do a lot of things.
They had a certain strategy, and the strategy was really built around expanding their equities capabilities globally. The idea was that they would layer on to that data and information analytics, and then derivative products. I think a lot of the entry points and a lot of the things they tried to do were just too small scale to really contribute to growth, and lots of obstacles to the achievement of that strategy. We basically got a strategic realignment done. We exited a lot of the cash equities businesses that were quite marginal. We rationalized a bunch of other things, and that really allowed us to focus on the core. I think doing that, to me, was obvious because we have great growth opportunities in the core. We have been achieving tremendous growth.
The organization was very fractured in its attention and its allocation of resources, trying to do a lot of other things versus really paying attention to the core business and making sure that we are doing as well as we can in terms of both growth and profitability. That went really well. We are well through that process. The other thing is that in the five years before I got there, Cboe had also grown dramatically in terms of the size of the organization. Both through acquisition and through hiring, we had added like 900 people to the organization. In tandem with the strategic realignment, we also went through an organizational rationalization, and that has been very positive for us as an organization because it really has caused us to be very focused on the core, and then identifying new growth opportunities.
We are actually very excited about the shift in focus back to derivatives. Obviously, we have got a great FX business. We have got a great data business. We have got a growing and very successful European equities business, a stable but not growing U.S. equities business. There is a lot more we can do in derivatives, including outside of equity derivatives, per se, and that is within Rob Hocking's remit. For the moment, what we are really focused on are event and prediction markets that are oriented toward financial instruments, economic indicators, commodity prices, and then much more so in our wheelhouse where we are starting is in securities-based event contracts. Rob can talk about that, but we are bringing to market. We have already brought to market a binary yes/no contract based on the S&P 500, and now we will be bringing to market soon after regulatory approval, KPI contracts.
That is a huge market opportunity for us, we think, in terms of the total addressable market. In tandem with that, as we are thinking about product innovation, especially in the derivatives markets, is expanding our clearing capabilities. We have a clearinghouse in Europe, a clearinghouse in the U.S. That is a great way for us to be able to control our ability to innovate and our ability to bring products to market. Also the ability to provide value to clients in terms of cross-margining benefits and reducing capital and margin requirements in new products that we develop. I am very excited about that.
Great. A lot to dig in there. Maybe just one other sort of high-level question, maybe with one specific one in there. Just thinking about the macro environment, give us a bit of your assessment of how customers are behaving, thinking about retail, institutional, how they are using the Cboe product suite. I am particularly curious on the retail side, given the lifting of the pattern day trading restrictions a few months ago. It looks like there are some early signs that we are seeing a pickup in activity. So curious if you could weave that in as well in terms of-
Sure.
what you are seeing on the ground.
Sure. I think Cboe exists kind of on what I would call the higher end of retail, and I like to sort of describe it that way because I think there is a lot that is happening in retail right now, and then there is sort of the gaming platforms, and there is the sports betting and all that kind of stuff. I think where we are is- And I just want to take a second to step back and remind everybody that we have been capitalizing on this trend toward retail for six or seven years, wholly unrelated to event and prediction markets and all the things that we see happening today with offshore perpetuals and all that kind of stuff. That was really with the advent of 0DTE trading.
When we look at- and this is another distinction that I just want to highlight is, we have lots of people taking ownership of their own financial future. We have lots of people who are increasingly sophisticated and actually do understand options, including a lot of the retail broker-dealers have done a great job, not only with education, as do we, but in the development of tools that make it much more intuitive and easy for them to learn how to trade options. Having shorter duration, one-day expiring contracts, I think, also was very additive to that. So we see really strong long-term secular growth trends that we are capitalizing on, the increasing importance of the U.S. equity market and the S&P 500. The shift from mutual funds to defined outcome ETFs, which has been extraordinary, and embedded in all those are options that come into our market.
A secondary effect there. Then just this overall trend toward increased sophistication. It is still at a very nascent level, we think, in terms of where it can go over time, and Rob can talk a bit about that. But the pattern day trader rule has had a positive effect as well. It had a fairly arbitrary limitation on the amount of trading that you could do on options, depending on your net account value. That has been lifted and, as Rob can describe, there has been a step function increase in volume that we are seeing coming out of the larger retail broker-dealers that have already implemented that. But overall, I would say, incredibly positive, and I think the last thing that I will just say, so that I do not keep talking, is that when we look at the use cases, we see people doing fairly sophisticated trading activity in our products.
I just want to highlight that because I think people worry about the sustainability of it, especially when they are thinking about sports betting and gaming and event and prediction contracts that are oriented toward other things that may not be sustainable. In our case, when we are looking at what they are doing, a lot of what they are doing is what larger institutional users in our markets are doing.
All right. You kind of answered my next question was.
Okay. Did not mean to.
It's all good. Along those lines.
Yeah.
There's definitely a perception that retail is more at the lower end. I'm curious if there are any specific KPIs or stats you have, the percentage of trades that are single-leg call, single-leg put, versus more sophisticated strategies. Any way to sort of measure that?
I think the great thing is overall, I would actually take a step back into the balance we're seeing, overall, across the platform. If you look at 0DTE, it ranges around, call it, low 60s as a percentage of SPX trading. When you look at the breakdown between retail and institutional, once again, it hovers between, call it, 55%-60% retail. The balance, institutional. Obviously, that led to, in the Q2 record, SPX volumes around 5 million contracts, 3.1 of that was 0DTE. I think it's also important to then show is options expiries in the 30- to 60-day bucket were up, call it, 14%, 15%. If you were to look at options in expiries of 90-plus days, those were up 28%. If you look at electronic access, up 163%. If you look at open outcry access, up over 20%.
You look at short term, long term, both up. Retail, institutional, both up. Electronic, open outcry, both up. It just speaks to the stability of the platform, and it speaks to the diversity of how all the market participants are coming in and using the product, and it's leading to just a massive liquidity pool that then builds on that. Now we have international demand wanting to come in, people in regions like Korea, Thailand, all wanting access to that liquidity, and I think as that comes in, you all have heard the statement, liquidity begets liquidity. We just can continue to grow, and then we use that as a foundation to now lean into things like we've already talked about, KPI contracts, things that now are offshoots of that liquidity, valuation components of single name companies that lead to stock price valuation. Stock price leads to the sectors.
Option-based ETFs, those lead to the indices, and you wrap it all together into a very long-term sustainable business.
Maybe following up there, because you mentioned, I think, some of the international interest, and I know on earnings calls, for some time, you'd call out APAC, and I think more recently, Europe is being mentioned. Just maybe if you could give us an update what you're seeing there. What sort of inning are we in terms of adoption of the suite, retail engagement? To what degree is demand overseas coming from retail brokers versus institutions?
I think we've had a heavy focus in the APAC region on the retail side, on the retail broker side. I still think demand continues to grow for the liquidity pools, like I mentioned. Some of the barriers to entry are just from a regulatory standpoint. In some of those regions, some of the cultures, options are still viewed as a risky tool. We're kind of working through that. I think, early days, I would say, of penetration and options usage there. When I think more on the institutional side, I think more of, call it, the Middle East region. You look at a lot of the-
Sovereign wealth funds in the Middle East, the ADIA's, the ADIC, they all have 30%-35% exposure to the S&P 500 in their portfolios, but yet are very under-penetrated in the options market. We see that as a huge growth area on the institutional side. Once again, as we build off of those, we just continue to expand where we see that demand.
Great. You mentioned also a little bit the short dated SPX complex, so maybe a question there. I think most recently it is around 63% of total SPX trading volume, and it is, I think, up pretty meaningfully over the last several years. I guess for these shorter dated contracts, maybe how would you describe the use cases? Given 0DTE's importance in driving growth over the last four to five years, how high do you think this can go, and what does this mean for the longer-term growth outcome?
Yeah, great question. Once again, I will come back to the balance. What I like to see in the 0DTE case is the balance of risk. 95%, roughly, of the contracts traded are defined risk. So either buying an outright option, call or put, buying a spread, selling a spread, everything where you know your risk going in, which is great for us to see. It means that sustainability is there because you are never going to have that blow-up moment where somebody just has unexposed risk. I think you will continue to see the percentages fluctuate over time based on the environment. Retail tends to be much more active in calm environments, as you would expect. Volatility upticks, you get more market uncertainty. That is when the institutions start to trade a little bit more, and you see that percentage of maybe retail dip, institutions increase.
But once again, it is still very balanced. Where you are seeing a lot of the strategies come in, once again, I think yield generation has been a very common one, whether you are overriding calls on a long-only portfolio or you are using call spread, put spread overlays and writing those on the sell side to capture that option premium. I think those have been very, very common and continue to grow. Then also, to be honest with you, and this is kind of a side shoot to the answer, we have seen options grow from more a professional institutional side that are now using them to embed into ETFs that are offering options-based ETFs to the retail side. So if you are a retail client that do not trust yourself in trading the options directly but want the performance of options in your portfolio, these ETF products have been great.
We have gone from probably about 2019, around $5 billion AUM tied to these options-based ETFs to about $300 billion currently. I know BlackRock just came out with a research report saying they anticipate that to be around $650 billion as early as 2030. So you see options usage continue to grow on multiple, I would say, avenues, which is just super encouraging.
Great. Well, maybe we'll dig into one of your other newer areas of potential growth, the prediction markets event contracts. You're live, I think, on Interactive Brokers and Charles Schwab with your kind of binary yes/no S&P contracts. Maybe just starting there, talk a bit about the strategy, what type of traders are these contracts meant to appeal to, and what does the initial uptake look like?
Yeah, I think who we're trying to appeal to are non-option traders today. We launched binary contracts back in 2008, and they weren't successful. We ended up delisting them mainly because we were offering a binary product to an existing options trader. Once you're trading a pure option, the binary yes/no zero-to-one element isn't really what you're looking for. You're looking for a more sophisticated trading tool. Now with the advent of the prediction market and all of the, I would say, attention on the event contract space and that binary contract, we relaunched contracts on the S&P 500. They're a yes/no format, so it's, "Where will the S&P close today? Will it be above 7,500? Yes or no?" That style. Like you said, we launched them. They're live now on IBKR and Schwab. Schwab just recently went live about a week and a half ago.
The difference in those platforms now, though, is that was kind of a gateway product to us getting out KPI contracts, which will be structured very similarly in that yes/no format. With the IBKR's and the Schwab platform currently, they're not being offered in the graphical user interface version of the yes/no kind of gamification platform view that you see something like on Kalshi or Polymarket. That is something they're still developing and will roll out later this year. Early uptake of this contract, I would say, is there, but it's slow because you're still kind of, in my opinion, working with that same user base that knows options today. What we're really excited about is the rollout of the KPI contract, mainly because now you're going to use this yes/no vehicle to give a valuation component that doesn't exist today. We do broad-based very well with SPX.
I've talked about the defined outcome in the ETF space that's kind of that sector level or slightly smaller than broad-based. We do single stocks well with our multi-list contracts. Now we're going to take that a step lower, and we're going to start to get into the individual metrics that drive the valuation of those stocks themselves, which is super exciting because I think it'll entice retail to start, and I think you'll see the rollout work very similar to 0DTE, where that 80%, 85% of retail to start. But then I think you'll see institutions come in when the data sets become available, when they can go to their risk managers and get approval to introduce some of these new products to their portfolios. You're going to be able to trade these individual metrics that impact individual stock performance.
I will close with, I have been using this example a lot, but I think it is a great example. The Home Depot last quarter. They beat on every KPI metric, and yet on future guidance, their stock price was down immediately after. If you were trying to have a trade on that was to represent the beat on all these individual performance metrics, and you own the stock thinking that was going to show up in that performance, you would have been dead wrong, and it actually would have worked against you. Having these components, you can have backward-looking metrics where I can look at Tesla car deliveries, I can look at NVIDIA data revenue sales, and I can actually have components in the valuation chain able to trade that.
Then I can also look at future guidance and maybe use the stock price or something along those lines to make those trades, which I think is a super interesting kind of forward-looking way to evolve this industry.
Maybe just on the regulatory side, so you have an application with the SEC. Can you talk a bit about that process, what the conversations have been like? I think there was a bit of confusion because the SEC extended the potential deadline to maybe help us understand what all that means.
Yeah, I can take that. First of all, we think the SEC has been great to deal with on all this stuff. They are very interested in these products. We have had, I think, a really good back and forth with them. So right now, while they have extended the timeframe, we have two things that are predicates for us to go to market. One is the approval of the contracts themselves, and the second is the approval of our application to be a temporarily registered securities clearing agency. That one had a slightly longer timeframe anyway, so the extension of the comment period does not really affect us in that way because we need them both. But our expectation, based on our interactions with the commission and the commission staff, is that we would hope to see regulatory approval well within that extended timeline. But it has been very positive.
The commission's been moving very quickly on both in terms of our interactions. Raising questions, we've been able to answer them. We're very positive on that.
Great. Maybe just one last question on the single stock KPIs. Any color on the early reads with buy side firms and market makers? You mentioned, I think, that you expect a lot of retail uptake, but from our conversations, there seems to be a lot of interest, especially if the liquidity is there and you can get good execution. What's the appetite from those types of customers for products structured this way? Maybe as you think about early liquidity, how do you ensure market maker participation and get liquidity off the ground?
Yeah, it's a great question. Market makers right now are very interested. I would say all the usual suspects that you know that represent liquidity in SPX are all signing up. They're testing. Susquehanna has probably been the most vocal as of late. They've committed to being there day one to offer liquidity in these products. I think it's shaping up well for the reason that I talked about, which is these are a different valuation component, and they're directly tied to portfolios and books of work that they have today, as opposed to things like sports, mentioned markets, pop culture. Those things don't really naturally fit into the portfolio that they have. Maybe they're building other portfolios to trade those things, but this is directly involved. If you have stock positions today, having access to these types of components will be valuable to managing that risk.
I think also, even on the regulatory front, to kind of back up my comments, you've seen Citadel come out, and they just wrote a comment letter recently about how these contracts belong on the SEC side. They belong with the same customer protections that we're seeing individual stocks trade and how this whole market has formed. MFA just came out recently supporting the Citadel paper on how these need to trade on the SEC side. They need to trade with the same customer protections. As you see this market form, the portfolios that exist today, trading these single names, trading these exposures, this is just a natural extension of that.
Got it. Very helpful. Maybe switching gears a little bit, thinking about the competitive environment. Last year we were talking about a competitor applying to list more expiries of a bunch of Magnificent Seven and some other single stocks. This year, it has shifted to new products, prediction markets, which we talked about, perps, which we have all been debating ad nauseam. Maybe just your overall thoughts on product level competition. How do you see the defensibility of Cboe's core product suite? I will just leave it there, high level.
Yeah, I think, well, one, Cboe has an amazing platform to compete with. We have the CFE. We can launch futures products. We can launch security option products. We have multi-listed. We have our prop universe. So really, that is where the strength of the platform comes from, and that is where I always enjoy competition. I think it pushes us to introduce new products. I think it pushes us to get better and think of things in different ways. I would argue, as competition increases, it is only going to fuel us to design new products and be able to compete in these different sandboxes. Where we are seeing the threats, like you said, perps, whether it is some of the event contracts. I think ultimately, it is not the competition piece that worries me, it is the level playing ground that worries me.
When I look at some of these other platforms that are using the innovation badge to say we need to move products into different regulatory regimes, that is the part that concerns me, because we already have these sandboxes to play in. It is like, come on in. Let us play in these sandboxes. Let us design KPIs that are securities based, or let us design perpetual futures that are futures based. But let us make sure we are doing it where those rules are well established and where we can compete as we have competed for the last 50 plus years.
But I think, Rob, you should comment on the perps versus options issue. I think that is helpful.
I think the history of perps, I don't want to go into too long of an explanation, but the history of perps were a crypto based innovation, and it was very useful. You didn't have the ability to short any sort of crypto future. You had a rolling cost. You didn't have that delta one constant maturity underlying. Perps kind of filled that void. For crypto, it was very necessary because you needed a vehicle that you could short pricing to keep pricing in line. That's a very useful and needed vehicle, and you couldn't do that. The only way you could sell a cryptocurrency in the early days was if you owned it, which caused pricing anomalies. Now fast-forward, perps are now this vehicle that people are looking at like this new invention. One, it's not new.
We tried to launch a perp about 18 months ago, and the CFTC actually shut us down in a different regulatory regime. We then came out with Cboe Continuous futures that had a long-term expiry date to kind of satisfy that need. I keep coming back to what are perps doing today? They're offering leverage. You're actually hearing people trade perps in short-dated windows where they get in and out in the same day. Well, if you get in and out on the same day, you don't need a perpetual future. A regular future trades the same exact way. So it really comes down to isolating what people want. They want leverage. If you're trading offshore 10, 50, 100x leverage products, one, we have to determine onshore if we want to actually offer that much leverage. But if we do, let's make sure that we understand the leverage.
If you're trading leverage 100x to the upside, you're getting 100x to the downside too. Whereas options can offer very similar leverage to the upside, but you get capped risk downside with the way convexity works. Your gains accelerate, your losses decelerate till you get to the options purchase price of where you traded. Those things, I think, it's great to have the debate because I think it's really important and it's drawing visibility into the differences in these products. But when one is looked at as a substitute for the other, I think that's where the whole argument really breaks down.
Great. Thanks for all that. Maybe switching gears a bit, maybe spend a moment on Cboe DataVantage. The growth there has been quite healthy. You're trending well ahead of your medium-term guide. What are the key drivers of the recent acceleration? How's the back half of the year shaping up? What does that mean, as we think about 2027?
Yeah. We continue to experience strong growth in Cboe DataVantage. Let's just go through some of the components. About two-thirds of Cboe DataVantage is connectivity and access to our core exchanges. You're seeing the growth in that area as you're seeing the growth Rob talked about on the SPX side. You're seeing the growth in our multi-listed business. You're seeing share growth there. There's more demand for connectivity and access, along with that volume growth. There's also more demand for connectivity and access as more players come into the market and want access to the products that we offer. You can see that in more trading desks at some of the core trading firms come in as well, and we're seeing connectivity and access, and demand for data come from overseas as well when you look at access to our products and markets.
That's the connectivity piece of it. We have nice, stable growth there. When you look at the market data component to it, the real driver of growth there, and I'll split market data into a couple of pieces. The driver of growth for our market data, our proprietary exchange-driven market data, is coming not only from the U.S., but we're driving about half of our new sales there overseas as well. That's overseas clients wanting access through their institutional broker-dealers or otherwise onto our market. That's driving a fair bit of growth on the Cboe DataVantage side, and it's more international-oriented there as well, where we've seen the growth accelerate. We think there's a lot of opportunity there. We're under-penetrated from our perspective overseas around data sales, so we'll continue to drive on that growth there.
When you look at the other component of market data, we also create data packets and data sales that we drive off of our proprietary data, but we put those through our analytics engines to create data sets that are valuable to institutional clients, and we sell those data sets as well. Some of the acceleration that you've seen in growth, over the first couple of quarters was driven by launching new data sets that were so interesting from a client perspective. We get the sales going forward and the subscriptions going forward, but they like the data set so much, they want all the historical data that went with it. That's what drove some of the one-time sales and the acceleration of growth off a trend that you saw in the first couple of quarters. That's a driver of growth.
The final piece, I'll highlight the index part of the business where we generate and create indices that utilizing our data and analytics that we then use on our offering up trading products to clients. The Cboe Magnificent 10 Index would be an example of that, where it's based off an index that we've created. It's a tradable derivatives product on our exchanges. It's a proprietary product, and now you're seeing some underlying interest where clients are launching ETFs off of the Cboe Magnificent 10 Index. That's a little bit of what's driven the growth in Cboe DataVantage.
Great. Thank you. All right. Maybe a couple questions on M&A and capital allocation. At the beginning, you talked a bit about the deconsolidation strategy that you've been undergoing. When you were the CEO of CME, you oversaw a period of pretty significant consolidation. Maybe talk a bit about how that experience informs how you think about M&A opportunities at Cboe. On top of this, Jill, I love to pepper you with this one all the time. Cboe's cash balance has been growing pretty meaningfully over the years. How are you thinking about best use of this capital?
Yeah, just on the first part, I would say that was a unique time and a unique place. I think the synergies that we had at CME with the Board of Trade and with NYMEX and COMEX were kind of extraordinary, in the sense that we were the exact same types of businesses, same regulatory frameworks. We had, at that point in time, I think, superior capabilities, both in terms of global electronic trading capabilities as well as clearing capabilities. We knew we had massive cost synergies and cost takeout opportunities. Then we also had really interesting revenue and growth opportunities because of the intersection of short-term interest rates at CME, long-term Treasury notes and bonds at the Board of Trade, and I could go on and on. So they were kind of no-brainers in a way. They were hard to do in many other respects.
But in terms of the logic of it,
The strategic rationale, the financial rationale. I think that part was pretty easy. When I look at the landscape today, I think it is a much more mature environment. I think there are fewer consolidation opportunities. That raises the bar for doing things that would actually make sense both strategically and in terms of the financial attributes for shareholders in terms of being compelling. So it is a pretty high bar. I think the way I approach it is, I think we have great growth opportunities in our core business. We have great growth opportunities around our core in some of the things that we are talking about. I do not feel like there is a need to necessarily focus too much on inorganic growth. We will be opportunistic about it. We obviously generate a tremendous amount of free cash flow.
I want to make sure that we continue to focus on the organic side of things. We will always evaluate opportunities to do things inorganically, and if we come up with something that makes sense, we will do it. I like to say that I think the bar is a little bit higher in the sense that I think the investor community has gone through this cycle with Cboe where we have done a lot of small-scale acquisitions, many of which we have now sort of backed out of and exited. That informs how I think about it.
Just to Craig's point, we do generate a healthy amount of free cash flow, which is a wonderful thing. I actually quite like the balance sheet flexibility we have. I think it is just consistent with prior messaging in that we look to deploy capital in multiple ways. First is via quarterly dividend. We do have a history of increasing that quarterly dividend. We just did so this past August, took it up 19%. We also are opportunistic as it relates to share repurchases. Then you heard a lot today, especially from Rob, these growth areas that we are leaning into. It is great to have that flexibility for organic investments that we are making.
Got it. Maybe just one further question. Your margins are, I think, already among the highest of most publicly traded companies. How do you think about margin expansion, margin maintenance? What are the sort of targets that you think about internally versus your key OpEx investment priorities?
Yeah, good question. I would say if you look at our 2Q financial results, our adjusted operating EBITDA margin was about 72%. That was up, I think, six percentage points from second quarter of 2025. What I will say, though, is we are not targeting a specific adjusted operating EBITDA margin. What you are seeing, I think that as a result of is very disciplined expense management coupled with really solid revenue trends. The way I would frame it is expect periods where we are leaning in from an investment perspective because we truly want to generate long-term growth. So planting those seeds today, then you will see other periods where we are harvesting those investments.
Great. With what little bit of time we have left, maybe about one last very high-level topic to touch on. Some of the technological and other market structure changes in the cash equities business. The industry has got a large focus on crypto and tokenization, so I am curious if you have a view on how those fit into Cboe's business. Maybe talk about the degree to which you are participating in any pilot programs. Alongside that, there is talk about a move to always on markets. I think you had previously filed this year to operate near 24/5 equities trading. What does that mean for your equities volumes, your index option suites? I know there is a lot in there, but-
I will just hit a couple highlights because we will not have time. I think of, first of all, we are all moving toward always on, and we are all iterating toward expanding trading hours, both in cash equities and in equity options. Tokenization is something that we will definitely participate in. I do not think the tokenization of cash equities or tokenization of equity options, for example, I do not think that those are inherently interesting in and unto themselves. I think if it expands the universe of participants because people want to transact that way, they want to use alternative forms of collateral, or they want to work around the limitations of traditional market infrastructure, whether that is at the exchange or the clearinghouse level. I think there is some peripheral additional business that we can probably achieve through that.
But I do not think a tokenized version of an equity security or an option is actually more interesting than the deeply liquid ubiquitous products that we already offer.
All right. I think we are out of time, so we will need to leave it there. Everyone, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate your time.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.