Okay, thanks everyone for joining us for our next session. I'm really excited to introduce Jessica Fischer, who's the Chief Financial Officer of Charter Communications. Jessica, welcome.
Thank you. Happy to be here.
Why don't we maybe start off with, you know, where you are today in executing the strategy? Give us an overview of the key initiatives and priorities that you and the team are focused on for the rest of this year.
Yeah, it's a big execution year given that it's the peak of our CapEx cycle. There is a lot going on. We're planning to build 450,000 rural passings this year. We're taking the next steps in our network evolution, finishing out our eight- Step 1 markets, and getting well into our Step 2 markets where we're delivering distributed access architecture. We're continuing to invest in the service component of our business, rolling out AI and machine learning, and digitization, as well as investing in that employee population to make sure that we're delivering the best service to customers and also to drive down transaction volume, which is beneficial from an operating income perspective.
We're continuing to roll out the pricing and packaging that we started at the end of last year, which is really about returning to our roots with the bundle, driving more value into packages, and utilizing that additional value to grow our revenue per customer relationship, and ultimately to grow the margin that we get off of each customer in a way that we think is sustainable for the long term. When you pull all of those things together, it's really about executing against the set of things that we think that we need to drive growth in the business and to drive value going forward. A lot in that year, but we're excited about it.
Okay, great. There's a lot there to do. Just, you know, maybe we could talk about broadband a little bit. I think, you know, obviously ACP had a disruptive impact on net adds last year, but, you know, net adds were actually quite positive in the second half of the year on an underlying basis, which seemed pretty encouraging. You know, can you just talk about, you know, are you seeing any additional ACP impacts this quarter, or is that sort of behind you at this point?
The one-time impact from the end of the ACP program is over. What we do see on the other side is something that we've talked a lot about and that we expected to see, which is slightly higher non-pay rates across the business. Then the other side of that, where people who non-pay, either with us or with someone else, come back in the form of gross additions.
Yeah.
That just generates additional transactions in the business, both acquisitions and disconnects, that'll bring the transaction level up a bit from where it was before.
Okay. All right. Great. And then, you know, can you just talk a little bit about the fiber build activity that you're seeing? Has the velocity of those builds changed at all? You know, any update on how much of the footprint is now covered by a fiber competitor?
Yeah. I see all of the same announcements that you do about build, but when we look across our footprint, the rate of fiber overbuild that we see inside of our footprint really hasn't changed that significantly from where we were before. If you think about that, you know, we're sitting in the mid to high 50s in terms of percentage fiber overlap. It continues to grow at a relatively slow clip, but it's been doing that for a long time, and we're accustomed to competing with fiber across our business. We continue to compete well in those spaces.
Okay. You know, a question that comes up more and more is, is whether satellite broadband will increasingly become competitive, wired broadband access technologies as launch costs come down and the number of LEOs in orbit increases. Just any thoughts that you have on satellite as a potential competitor in the future?
You know, there's a good application for low Earth orbit, which is really when you think about those areas that are very difficult to connect because the cost to pass is high, and then even the cost to operate that network is high because of the remoteness of the location. I think there's definitely a place for LEO competitors in the market. That being said, I think it's less efficient to build and less efficient to operate than our network. We're near in sort of higher- density locations. Ultimately, I think it has its application, and we see it, and we think it's good for that, but not necessarily, not necessarily one that's as prevalent in our footprint.
Okay. Back in 2022, you had launched Spectrum One and more recently, Life Unlimited this past September, which sort of turned Spectrum One upside down, shifting that discount to broadband and charging full price for mobile. How are you using both of these branded offer structures in the market today, and how effective has Life Unlimited been in driving customer acquisition? It seems to have coincided with the improvement in the underlying net adds in 2024.
Yeah. We launched Life Unlimited in mid-September. Really, the impact isn't just size in Q4, but it's doing the things that we wanted it to do. The first of those is that it's driving more product per customer that customers are taking, which improves the customer ARPU, improves the direct margin that you're getting on a customer-by-customer basis. The second one is that it's driven better take rates in higher tiers of products. If you think about the number of customers taking gig, the number of customers taking Unlimited Plus, the number of customers taking Wi-Fi, Life Unlimited is driving improvements in all of that sort of tiering side.
The third thing that it does is because of the price lock guarantees, with two products that's for two years and with three products for three years, it will flatten, and the step-ups are lower, so fewer step-ups for customers and lower step-ups ultimately, from a price perspective, which should be beneficial in terms of our relationships with customers over time. We can do that, and it makes sense economically to do that because of the additional margin you're generating from having sold the customer additional product. We're happy with how Life Unlimited is performing. It's still fairly early in the sort of marketing cycle to say is it driving broadband.
I think that we are getting the things out of it that we wanted to get, which is increased take rates, and more products where we can deliver more value to customers.
Okay. What is your view on the broadband growth outlook over the next few years, the opportunity in, in particular, the opportunity to grow ARPU through factors outside of price? Also, just interested in understanding how you think the new Life Unlimited bundles could impact ARPU going forward.
Yeah. As I was saying, we often don't think about ARPU on a product-by-product basis.
Right.
Because for us, it's a matter of with each customer, how much additional value can you generate for the company through, like, an additional direct margin, if you will. I think Life Unlimited is helpful in allowing us to drive value into the bundle, which then allows us to drive additional ARPU. On the mobile side, it's, you know, we've gotten better penetration and more brand recognition for our product, as that's enabled us to not need free lines to push growth in that space. In addition to that, with the addition of Anytime Upgrade, we're selling more customers into Unlimited Plus. Combination of those things is, I think, what's driving the increased mobile ARPU that you see already. I think there's still space for that to continue, as it infiltrates the product, to drive growth there.
And on the internet side, you know, in the past, we've leaned less heavily into internet speed tiers than some of our peers have. And so our opportunity through Life Unlimited, which incentivizes customers to move into some of those higher- tier products, is more than what I think you might see at some of our peers. Our ability to continue to drive price the way that we would like to, which is to drive more value and to earn price inside of the bundle, is clearly there.
Okay. All right. Finally, shift to video. You know, in Q4, I think you had the best video subscriber quarter since the first quarter of 2022. Could you walk us through the factors that contributed to the improvement and your Charter, Charter's video strategy more broadly? Talk about the path forward from here, you know, in terms of the different types of bundles, streaming apps, Xumo, you know, how all that kind of comes together for strategy.
All comes together. Yeah. What happened in Q4, just to start there, was really about reintroducing product bundling, and how we were selling the video product with our broadband product. I think the results that you've seen so far in video are just sort of what happens when we put the package back together.
We had been in a place where we were not comfortable bundling the video product. As we have added in value from the programmer streaming apps, which now with our linear product, you can get up to $80 of value of programmer streaming apps as we make our way through this year. That additional value into the bundle, I think, gives us confidence in being able to differentiate the broadband product by having a high-value video product to pair it with. That really gave us the confidence to go back to the bundle and really drive increases in video customers.
Right.
We haven't yet reached the point that we're scaled in marketing on that product yet. It's about needing to make sure that we have the activation structure right. I think later this year, you'll see us sort of get the last of the programmer streaming apps connected into our systems. Once we can do that, you'll see us and the programmers together really go to market those products, which should be exciting in terms of being able to bundle them with the broadband products and create value for customers.
What, just to follow up, I mean, what about, how do you see the strategy rolling out on the streaming app direct side? You know, so you get your Xumo you have your Xumo box, and then you could purchase streaming services outside of the bundle and, you know, any sort of timing or. Outlook on that?
I think about there being three product categories, if you will.
Yeah.
Right? You have your fully provisioned bundles that will include a lot of high-value programmer streaming apps. Those products are great for a set of customers, but they continue to be expensive.
Right.
Right? And then you have skinnier bundles that are appropriate to customers who are more price sensitive and who can then sort of go try to buy what they want and then you have customers who don't wanna be part of your linear universe, but want to be able to bundle streaming apps with their products. What we have inside of Xumo is the ability to deliver all of those products seamlessly, right? You're accessing all of them through the same interface, and the ability to allow customers to move through those environments back and forth as is appropriate to them, in a seamless way. As we think about it, you know, we've called it sort of seamless entertainment.
Like, how can we provide all of the set of things that customers want, provide them through an interface where it's easy to access all of those things as well as easy to move between them if that's what you want to do, and to do it through an interface that I think actually is very user-friendly and good for consumers as well.
Yeah. Okay. It seems as though we're really in a different place versus, say, a couple of years ago in terms of, video packaging flexibility that you have, as you just discussed. How did we get here in terms of, or how did you arrive at this point, I should say, in terms of identifying the strategy and then being able to reach the right agreements with programmers in order to, you know, actually put this into the market?
Yeah. If we rewind two years, I think that we were in a place where we had unbundled video from the broadband package, and it was really because what we saw is we were pushing price increases through once or twice a year to keep up with programmers. When people saw our bill, they thought that price increase was from Spectrum, right, not from the programmers. On the other side, it was not clear that the programmer, that the linear product was delivering the increases in value that were commensurate with those price increases. We were kind of at the point where we said, "Okay. If we want the product to be an asset to the business, we have to do something.
If not, it's time to sort of let it go. That came to a head, very publicly, in our negotiation with Disney. The good news is that I think that from there, we've had great interactions with the programmers around how we provide value to them and they provide value to us and to our customers, through the utilization of our large sales force, through the fact that we have a lot of customer interactions where we can, where we can provide value to the consumer by bundling on the video product. Ultimately, sort of coming out of that negotiation and then going through, I mean, as I said, we now have $80 or so worth of value in programmer streaming apps that we think we'll be able to bundle with the product.
Ultimately, because of what we can do in terms of the sales force and reduced churn to the churn that we provide by bundling those products, we think we create value on both sides. It's the best thing for us. I think it's the best thing for programmers. I think it's the best thing for the consumer. It's really created an all-sides win situation, and we're excited about going and rolling it out.
Yeah. I can tell. Let's talk about mobile a little bit. How do you see Charter's positioning to compete for converged home broadband and mobile customer relationships? You know, how do you continue to win in the market there?
You know, we have the fastest broadband and Wi-Fi product in our footprint. We have, to go with that, the fastest wireless capabilities because of the ability to combine our MVNO with our Wi-Fi and CBRS networks. We put that together with award-winning customer service that is continuing to improve because of the investments that we're making in the network, as well as in AI and machine learning to make our service infrastructure better. We take all of those things, and we offer them at market-leading prices to consumers.
I think the way that we win in the market is consistent with the way that we've always said that we'll win, which is that we have high-quality products. We provide high-quality customer service with them, and we sell them to consumers in a way that delivers value to those consumers. I think if we continue to do that, we continue to have the convergence play, that wins and makes sense for our customers.
Okay. I think mobile penetration is now, broadband subs is now in the high teens. Spectrum Mobile continues to grow at a really impressive, you know, pace in net adds. When you look a little deeper at gross add and churn trends as well as the profile of the customers you're adding, what does it suggest in terms of your ability to sustain net adds, you know, at these kind of levels going forward, which I think has been around 500,000 a quarter?
Yeah. So.
I'll just be overly prescriptive about $500,000, but.
Not to be prescriptive, but no. We have the best products in the marketplace in terms of our ability to deliver high speeds because of the customer's access to our network, as well as having great pricing and packaging. Even as we've moved out of, as we have greater penetration, better branding, moved out of the need for free lines to grow that product, if you think about what's been happening, we've continued to post high levels of mobile line net adds, in spite of the fact that our base is growing. Churn, on that basis, and on an absolute basis, is also growing, which means we're continuing to grow net adds really or grow gross adds over time.
I will not offer a prescriptive, forward look at where I think we can go in mobile net adds, but I think that we are positioned well to continue to grow that business over time. I think that we are going to continue to do so.
When you say churn is growing, I assume you mean just the volume and the absolute.
On an absolute basis. Yeah. Churn on a relative basis, percentage churn of the base has actually been shrinking, which is both sort of the longevity of customers. Customers who have been with us longer tend to churn less, and our service infrastructure has been improving, which is because of a lot of investments that we've made, and making sure that we're serving our customers well. The combination of those things, percentage churn has definitely been coming down, but on an absolute basis because the base is so much larger. The total number of customers who churn comes up.
Okay. What does mobile profitability look like today? Any color you could give on, on margin performance and where you see the economics of mobile heading?
Yeah. We continue to be really happy with how the mobile business is performing overall. What I would say is that the growth in mobile contribution to EBITDA this year is really one of the things that gives us confidence in our ability to grow EBITDA in spite of the headwinds that we have in the form of the ACP customers that we lost in the year- over- the year and it being a non-political year for advertising.
Right. The reason that we see that growth is sort of multi-fold. We talked about what has been happening in mobile ARPU as we sell into additional tiers, and as we do not need to be so reliant on free lines. The other thing that is happening is just as the base grows, the margin that you get off of the existing base continues to grow. Customer acquisition costs, gross costs, which have continued to be a very large portion of the total costs in that business, just as a portion of your total costs, as the base gets larger, those customer acquisition costs have come down.
Which really puts you in a place to continue to grow mobile's impact on EBITDA. I think we expect to see very good growth from that this year. I think we expect to see that continue into the future as well as we continue to add customers.
Okay. The big three mobile network operators have been raising prices for the past four to five years. And, you know, I think as a management team, you've consistently pointed out that a Spectrum bundle with mobile and home broadband is better value than the offerings from the big three by a good margin. Is there an opportunity here, though, to maybe exercise some pricing power on your mobile product as a way to further improve the economics on the mobile side?
You know, as I said, I think mobile ARPU is growing already, and it's growing for the right reasons, which are that we're adding value to the customer bundle. I think the other thing that happened when we introduced the plans that we introduced with our Life Unlimited branding is we've been able to utilize some of the bundled discount that we had had to sit over on mobile and utilize that to drive better headline pricing for the internet product by moving the discount across, which ultimately is because of our confidence in what we have behind the mobile product. I think that our mobile network, our ability to deliver mobile service and high-quality mobile service, is clearly sort of market-leading and having the fastest wireless product.
When you put those together, it's never our goal to grow our business by just growing pricing. I think that we have the things that we need to be able to continue to add value to customers, with some space around pricing and mobile if we need to take advantage of it.
Okay. Can you talk a little bit about the traffic offload opportunity to CBRS and public Wi-Fi, you know, how you see that effort progressing over the next few years and how you see it ultimately impacting the business?
Yes. We are past the pilot stage in CBRS. We have a fully deployed market in Charlotte, we have thousands of radios deployed across North Carolina, Alabama, and Georgia today. We expect inside of 2025 to deploy thousands more radios, both in those markets and in several other markets across our footprint. I think as you get into 2026 and 2027, as we complete our network evolution in spaces, you'll see us come behind that and deploy tens of thousands of radios, and deploy all of the active licenses that we have today across our footprint. The good thing about it is that the amount of investment that's required for us to deploy that CBRS network is pretty limited in terms of the cost of the radios and putting them out. When we place a radio, it drives MVNO offload.
From a cost perspective, those radios generate ROI on their own. In addition to that, you're improving the customer experience by connecting them in areas that were more congested otherwise, I think we're really happy with where we're sitting in terms of having a product that's ready to go and being deploying it across our network in a way that'll drive value for the business and fits inside of the capital envelope that we've provided to the market already.
Okay. Great. Let's shift to the business side if we can. What are you seeing in the SMB part of the business? Seems like competition there is mirroring residential. I do not know if you agree with that assessment. Can you just give us a sense as to maybe where you are from a share perspective in that market segment?
Yeah. We continue to be underpenetrated in the SMB market. Our growth in that space has been more muted, as you point out, over the last couple of years. It is very much reflective of what's happened in residential in that the cell phone internet product has come in and taken some of the very low data use cases out of SMB. The competition on that front has made our growth slower than it had been before. Ultimately, I think that, that use case is somewhat self-limiting. We will see, for those businesses that require sort of high-quality broadband, I think we have the ability to continue to penetrate and to grow inside of SMB once we sort of make it through this more competitive window.
Okay. How about on the enterprise side? Revenue growth there has been pretty healthy despite the wholesale headwinds you've been dealing with for several years now. Can you maybe just, you know, talk about where you are there, from a share perspective, from a growth perspective, what types of products and customers are driving that growth at this stage?
Yeah. We made a concentrated effort, inside of enterprise to move upmarket, a couple of years ago, thinking about verticals like hospitality, like medical, and federal government. The enterprise business, as you point out, has been really successful, in going to some of those sort of larger market accounts, and driving penetration there. Here inside of the last several months, we've made some reassessments as you think about SMB and enterprise businesses.
We pulled them together into one business unit that operates now as Spectrum Business. That is really because if you think about the historical SMB business, that was the HFC side of our offering. As the DOCSIS network has matured, and now offers much higher quality service, we now have enterprise clients that want to utilize the DOCSIS network in some of their locations.
As we've built out more fiber over time, we also have SMB businesses that are being served by the fiber network, including the networks that were sort of built for our enterprise clients. In the middle of that, there's a middle market that we probably weren't doing as great of a job of serving as we should have been. As we pull the two sides of the business together, our expectation is that we will have a more sort of wholesome product set to offer across all of those business customers, and we'll be able to better execute on that space in the middle market where I think we could have done a better job. Our expectations around our ability to grow the combined business going forward are really strong.
How large is that middle market opportunity relative to the other two? I mean, it sounds like that's.
I think it's significant, particularly, you know, is there always internal handoffs when you have like, well, how many employees does the business have, and what business unit does it then fall into? I think there I think there's a significant piece of the market in the middle space, that we probably weren't serving as well as, as we should have.
Yeah. Interesting. Maybe you could shift to cost for a moment. How are you managing the cost structure and finding efficiencies in this lower volume and revenue growth environment? You know, what are some things you're doing?
Yeah. We had a pretty good- size exercise last year where we went across the business and identified opportunities short-term, middle-term, and longer-term to go reduce the cost structure, without impacting our sales and service capabilities. The short-term things I think have been executed on, and we're seeing the benefits of those. The medium-term, lots of them are through their execution process, so we'll see benefits over the course of this year. We're continuing to take, we're continuing to work on some of those things that take longer. You think about real estate leases and how often they turn over. There are some things that it just takes time to work them in. I think we've had a very effective run at reducing the overall, the overall cost of the business.
We'll continue to keep our eye on the ball there, but we have some good exercises in process. The other piece, though, if you think about what makes up the bigger cost base in our business, it's really about service transactions. The investments that we're making around AI and machine learning and digitization, where we are improving the agent or improving the technician's ability to serve the customer and to serve them well, I think ultimately it's those things that will drive down service transactions in the business. We're seeing some of that already as well.
Yeah.
And that's really where the bulk of the cost is.
Yeah. It improves customer experience as well.
It does. Yeah. Yeah. Two-sided.
On CapEx, you recently provided updated CapEx guidance through 2028. Thank you. Excluding BEAD and, you know, really confirmed that 2025 will be CapEx peak at about $12 billion. And then you talked about a return to steady state CapEx by 2028 at less than $8 billion. Can you talk a little bit about your confidence level in the guidance, over that time horizon? What, if anything, could drive some variability, you know, in other direction? Obviously, BEAD's one of them, but we can get to that in a second.
Yeah. We are very confident in the overall trajectory that we have laid out, and we understand that investors expect us to hit the guides that we have given. I never want to say never in terms of, like, we would not want to turn down a high ROI opportunity inside of the business because of having a guide out there. At this point in time, there is not anything that we see, absent BEAD, which we have talked about, right, that would move us off of the guidance that we have given over that period.
Okay. And then on the BEAD side, you know, you talked about the potential sizing of that at no more than a few hundred million dollars a year starting next year, and, you know, citing regulatory conditions as a reason for not pursuing BEAD funding more aggressively. Given the change in administration and the talk of revisiting the BEAD program, what changes do you think we might see to the program, and could that increase your appetite to participate potentially?
There was one additional thing when we think about the size of BEAD, which really was about the BDC maps and what passings are available. Over the last several years, the number of passings that have close proximity to our footprint, which is where we tend to do our rural expansion, has shrunk quite a bit. That is also part of the reason that our expectation around the BEAD spending is lower. Ultimately, look, I know that there are some contemplated changes in rules. Some of those, I think, do the right thing in terms of picking the right technologies for what are sort of very high-cost, very rural passings, which is not a space that we would have been likely to play in in the first place because it is hard to serve those passings and generate return. We have always been return-focused.
I think even with the changes that we see on the horizon, we're comfortable inside of that few hundred million dollar window that we gave, just given the sizing of the opportunity and given what we see in terms of possibility across the changes.
Yeah. Maybe we could talk about capital allocation a bit, before we wrap up. You're back in the market with share purchases now post the shareholder meeting, I think, right?
We are.
Okay. Great. Is that going to continue? How are you managing leverage between now and closing the Liberty Broadband merger? If you could maybe talk about that outlook, that'd be great.
Yeah. I, we continue to target leverage at the midpoint of our 4-4.5x target leverage range, on a pro forma basis inclusive of the Liberty Broadband debt, which is sort of wrapping in the way that the balance sheets of the combined companies would work together. With that, I guess we always have the, we've had the same capital allocation for a long time, right? We're always looking to positive ROI investments first, after that to accretive M&A, and then to managing to our target leverage ratio. Ultimately, I expect that to continue to result in share buybacks, given where we sit in terms of cash-flow and EBITDA.
Is there anything that would come up from a transaction standpoint with Liberty Broadband that might require you to pause or anything, anything that you can think of?
There's nothing I'm aware of at this time that would require us, again, to be in a pause phase.
Okay. All right. And then on the acquisition, potential acquisition side, how should we think about the potential for Charter to pursue acquisitions? Are there assets out there that might be of interest? And, you know, does the administration change make any difference in your calculus for potential regulatory approval if you were to do something?
I'd say our second priority for capital allocation has always been accretive M&A. That means a couple of things to me. It means that assets have to be at the right price. It has to be an asset that you think that can deliver value for your shareholders. I mean, we think that we operate cable assets well, and that we can drive results from them, that you have to have the combination of those things. The regulatory environment, while there is a lot of chatter about deals, I don't think it's clear that just any deal can get done.
As we've thought about that, as a management team, I think our first priority continues to be to drive value by operating our business well, which means that we're operating it to create value for shareholders. Also for us, that means that we're operating it in a way that's friendly to customers by driving value to them and making sure that we're doing the right thing for the customer, which I think ultimately becomes the right thing for the business in the long term and the right thing in an M&A environment as well, right? Yeah, but I don't know that it necessarily means that there's anything that can get done. We continue to have confidence in operating the business to generate value from the business we have.
Take the opportunities and stride as they come.
Yeah.
All right. Thanks very much, Jessica. We'll wrap up there.
Thanks.
Thanks everyone for joining us.