Great. Well, good afternoon, everybody. I'm Jerry Revich once again, I'm thrilled to have with us the senior management team from Clean Harbors. Immediately to my left, we have Eric Dugas, Chief Financial Officer, Carol Larsen , EVP Sales Management, Jim Buckley, SVP Investor Relations. As you might have noticed, I said those two names in reverse order based on who's sitting on stage.
Okay.
Eric, Carol, Jim, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you.
Thanks.
We're going to run the conversation in the fireside chat format. As a starting point, Eric, looking at Clean Harbors over the past five years, their earnings growth has been really outstanding, 19% CAGR. What went right over that timeframe to enable that level of really strong, profitable growth?
Yeah, a great introductory question there, Jerry. I want to thank everybody for joining us today and learning more about the company. When you look over the last five years, really strong performance, and I'd say there's been a couple of catalysts to be able to deliver that type of growth at the earnings level. I guess the first I would say is we are continuing each and every day to think about how we can drive more volumes into our network. When you think about Clean Harbors, you think about a company that handles, for the most part, hazardous waste, everything short of nuclear. We have over 100 physical sites with hard-to-replicate permits where we handle that waste. One of the things we're constantly trying to do is increase volumes and bring more waste into the system.
When we do that, we're able to really leverage the network and drive business performance and margins and the earnings power that you've talked about. A couple of things, developing new lines of business. I think some regulatory changes that we've had on the retail side of things has really helped us grow that business line. When you think about our core verticals, Jerry, with chemical and manufacturing, those numbers from a macro perspective, and I'm sure we'll get into some more recent data, those lines have been fairly flattish over the last couple of years. We've still been able to grow through that. Through increased volumes, pricing strategies is something we spend a lot of time on, and Carol is instrumental with that and the sales team, driving good pricing power.
Continuing to integrate, the vertical integration, I think, is something that sets Clean Harbors apart from many of our competitors in that we can start with customers, we can be on-site helping them test and handle their waste, we can then transport that waste to our disposal sites, and ultimately dispose of it. Really, I'd say it's volume growth, it's margin expansion through pricing, and then, although 2025 was a little bit slower on the acquisition front, a long history of continuing to grow acquisitively as well as organically.
Can we unpack, Eric, the point on retail and the changes there that have been helpful to Clean Harbors?
Yeah. When you think about retail, you oftentimes don't think about hazardous waste. There were some interesting regulatory changes. Started in California and really have grown across the retail space, but put some regulations on the types of things, fertilizers and things like that often are in the retail space that can't just go into the dumpster and be handled through the traditional solid waste means. They actually have to be handled. When you think about retailers and the growing retail space, and you think about some of those large retailers out there, those are significant customers of ours today. A lot of the returns, a lot of e-waste, things of that nature, that we're handling, that's kind of new to the Clean Harbors space.
Again, bringing those incremental volumes into an already established leverageable network is really helping us grow in an area that, again, people probably don't think traditional hazardous waste.
Very interesting. What proportion of revenue is it? I'm assuming this is technical services based on the way you're describing it.
It's still, Jerry, a relatively small piece of the business, about 3%-4%, I think is our recent figure on the retail waste, but really growing. I think there's also some other areas. We're starting to get into healthcare waste a little bit, and that's a growing area we're seeing volumes grow. I'm hoping that in addition to these growth areas, I think more recently, we've seen some better large-scale economic indicators around ISM and things and maybe some of the chemical space picking up as well here. That should be very value accretive to Clean Harbors.
You folks have been able to achieve really strong price ahead of costs over this five-year time period. Looking forward over the next five years, if we're in this room today and we've got another five years of 90% earnings CAGR, what would have to go right to get there? Can you drive margins another step change higher from here?
I guess I'd answer that question first by a few years ago, we put out a Vision 2027 roadmap, and in that roadmap, we had our margins in our environmental services segment reaching roughly 26% by FY 2027. I'm happy to report that we reached that in 2025. We've hit that goal. To continue to drive those margins, we're going to continue to do a lot of the things that we've done. I've mentioned volumes a couple of times and continuing to sell more services to fill out our platform in all over 100 disposal sites. Jerry, you mentioned pricing. When I think about pricing and our pricing strategy and the trajectory we've been on, I think about many of the things that we've implemented over the last five or six years from a strategic perspective.
Really looking at our entire customer base, looking at the services we provide them across our 50 lines of business, looking at their current margins and quartiling those things, and then really equipping our sales and operational folks with a strategy to kind of push pricing and get the value that we deserve for the important services that we deliver through pricing. We balance pricing across our LOBs and make sure we're thinking about the total customer value long-term and pricing accordingly. Volumes, pricing, vertical integration, continuing to bring as much transportation labor into our business and use our own internal people rather than going external for some of those things.
Just speaking to the labor force for a moment, our ability to retain our folks here, our retention rate with our employees is at a near all-time high here, and that's something really important to us, to keep our own employees. It increases safety, it increases production and efficiencies and leads into that margin. Current goals, we're trying to get that environmental services space to a 30% margin. Our current forecast has us in at about 27% there. We'll finish this year, but hoping to move beyond that, hit that 30% target. Reset from there.
30 by 30?
Could be 30 by 30. Yeah. Those are great ESPN flicks as well, but that could be a moniker. Yeah.
In terms of the part of the business where you're seeing margin expansion, looking back really even over a longer timeframe, you folks have done a great job getting industrial services margins higher. Is the next leg of margin upside for ES primarily from technical services, or can you continue to drive industrial and field services margins higher?
I think it's going to come from kind of all four components of environmental services. Our technical services, our Safety-Kleen branch has been a great story. Field Services, where we've been able to raise margins probably from the mid-teens to kind of the low to mid-20% range. Then Industrial, I think we're beginning to see some cyclical signs of that business picking up. I think in the last few years as that business has slowed down a little bit, we've done a lot of self-help items, labor management being one, cross-training employees being another across the Industrial space, and that's an area that I think as that business picks up and revenues come back, we should be able to see more margin.
Going back to kind of technical services, Jerry, and the Safety-Kleen branch business, we're going to continue to, I think, see some great margin growth there. I think the demand remains strong. I think there's a lot of things that we're doing internally to drive margins. Then I think with a lot of the tailwinds we have, and I'm sure we'll get into some of those, between improved manufacturing numbers, PFAS opportunities, and things of that nature, more volumes into that network is going to drive margins.
It sounds like you're seeing in the business the benefits from higher manufacturing numbers based on that comment, Eric.
Yeah, I think we're beginning to.
Early days.
Early days. We saw the ISM figures come out last week or the week before, I think fourth or fifth month in a row where you saw kind of being in expansion mode. That certainly has not been the case over the last four or five years. The way we view it is we've performed quite strong over the last four or five years in a space that's been a little bit of a gray area. Now you're starting to see some green shoots come up in our business and really excited about how we can perform and the earnings power that this business has in an environment with some expansion to it.
Very interesting. You also mentioned things are looking better in industrial services specifically. Last quarter, we were commiserating that when margins were low for refiners, they weren't spending any money. Now margins are too high for them to spend money and take downtime. Are they starting to take unplanned downtime? Are they doing more work?
Yeah, Jerry, in our forecast for 2026, we did not build in kind of an improving market in this area in the back half. I think we're beginning to see signs of perhaps some pickup later this year, maybe into next. One of the reasons I feel that way, and some of the intel we're getting from the business is a little bit of what past history has shown, and you kind of alluded a little bit to the Goldilocks syndrome that can exist in the industrial space where I think leading into 2026 here in the last few years, we've seen kind of that refinery space and chemical space, which are the largest verticals in our industrial services business, really be kind of in a cost-cutting mode and looking for areas to reduce spend. In some cases, that means less maintenance and smaller turnarounds.
Maybe some more pit stop turnarounds rather than doing a full turnaround. In past cycles, we've seen that type of behavior. A lot of times that leads into a period like I think we're seeing now where with crack spreads being where they are, refineries in particular kind of manufacturing and producing all out. I'd say the latest cycle you saw that is kind of when the world turned back on after COVID, we were in a period where these plants were running all out. Then they get to a point where, hey, they can't skip the maintenance. They need to do the certain levels of maintenance and turnaround activity that is required for these multimillion-dollar plants. You saw in the last cycle, kind of the 2022 timeframe, you saw kind of the industrial services revenue expand.
We're looking at that potential and thinking that history will repeat itself there. When you compare the period we're in now to a period from four years ago, we're expecting, and ultimately here, that business to turn around, those revenues to return. The timing, is it later this year, early next year? Time will tell on that, but certainly you don't want to run these plants to a point where you see production issues or disruptions or a safety event. You really got to get in there and clean out those units appropriately.
Have we seen that start to happen, onesies, twosies, any green shoots or no?
No, I think it's a little too early to tell. I think what those folks are focused on right now, they've kind of been in cost-cutting mode. At this very moment, they are focused on production, and like I said, especially the refineries. Ultimately, they got to do the work. They got to do the maintenance work that's required.
Some of them are running to upset. You've seen there's been more refinery fires. There's even been some chemical plant fires over the last six months because they're just running their plants hard, and as Eric was saying, for a good reason now, versus before, as you mentioned, it was as a cost cutting, and now they've got money, and they're making money, and so they don't want to bring it down.
They're making too much money.
Sometimes the plant says, "I've got to come down.
When they do, it's a much shorter cycle. They're being very, as Eric alluded to, pit stop. That's what he's indicating, is that over the last year, the duration of a turnaround is reduced by about 33%, and then even over two years, it's about 50%. It's much more intentional, I would say. The good news for us, too, is if you are there doing the turnaround, you either come to the table with all of the things that may happen as they go into the turnaround. Also looking to minimize the number of vendors has been a big area of focus, too. How do you do more of the work while you're on site?
It sounds like other parts of industrial services are getting better. The non-refining part, it sounds like, is improving.
I want to just maybe add, too, what we've been talking about here is our industrial services business. When you think about industrial waste in totality, if these refineries or these chemical plants are now running at a higher level and not wanting to stop to do the turnaround, it means more waste is being produced, and we handle that waste on our technical services side of the house. When we talk about green shoots, Jerry, and seeing some pickup in manufacturing and Industrial activity, which is good for us, it's really good on the technical services side. When these plants do turn around and need to do their turnarounds, we'll see that on the Industrial side. The overall industrial landscape, again, I'll go back to the ISM readings and things like that.
Starting to see some green shoots, it would be nice to see a period of expansion kind of hold on here. That, among many other tailwinds to the business, I think are a good thing for Clean Harbors.
Super. Carol, right before this meeting, we had the Republic team in here, and they were complimentary of your team's pricing algorithm and what you folks have been able to do. Can you just share with us the Clean Harbors approach to pricing that's been really a big part of the margin improvement journey?
Yeah, I think Eric already alluded to it. It's certainly pricing with discipline, pricing with intent, regularity, looking across the business, and looking into each of the customers, the industry, the response, the competitiveness, and what we can do as an organization to expand and cross-sell all lines of business. We want to look at it from both sides of the house and really partner with our customers, but certainly have the rigor around periodic annualized price increases with rigor.
You get the customers used to a rhythm of annual price increases. That's a key part of the operations.
It is, an understanding of the value, right? The value proposition in any pricing conversation is critical and key to understand the difference between us and somebody else and what we bring to the table. That goes on throughout the year.
When demand drops down, it sounds like you folks did a nice job of pivoting last year. Can you talk about how you folks operated? I'm referring to when the overall activity levels slowed around maybe 2Q, 3Q last year. For the industry, it sounds like you folks managed it reasonably well based on your results and what I'm hearing from peers.
Yeah. You think about the various businesses and the demands of what we have and how many services we perform throughout the year. Certainly, there's going to be ebbs and flows in how you continue to look at the available opportunities in the marketplace. We certainly leaned into that.
Yeah. I think, Jerry, the ability for Clean Harbors to pivot when one vertical may be a little bit slower is one of the strengths of the company. When you think about our 50 LOBs and the more than 300,000 customers that we provide service to, I think what you're alluding to is as we saw chemical volumes maybe kind of flattish, we were able to turn on other things like healthcare, like retail. Our field services organization, if you think about that business and the acquisition that we did with HEPACO a few years ago, really kind of nearly doubling the size of field services. This business, field services, is a business where about half of those revenues are kind of routine tank cleanings and regular services, and about 50% is responding, emergency response to certain events that happen.
You can have an event that's a few hundred thousand dollars. You can have an event that's tens of millions. Our ability to continue to grow that business, our ability to open new branches, our ability to build continued relationships with many of the customers that we handle from a technical services or Safety-Kleen branch side and get into their emergency response plan so we can respond when something bad happens. We can fill in the gaps with that business, and there's been some large events that we've responded to over the last year that has kind of helped fill in the gap.
At Clean Harbors, a few years ago, if I was up here, we would talk about kind of an eight-cylinder engine, and our goal is to make sure at least six or seven of those are operating at all times, and that really carries the wind in our sails. Now a larger business, $6 billion in revenue, 25,000 people, we talk about it as a 12-piston or a 12-cylinder engine. We believe that 10 or 11 of those are operating right now, and we can pivot from piston to piston as need be. That's why we've been able to deliver great growth over the last five years, even in difficult times, and continue to see great margin expansion. That's really what we want to focus on, is continuing to grow revenue top line and get more dollars to the bottom line through the margin.
Super. Eric, you touched on the Safety-Kleen branch business. Jim and I had a conversation about that about a quarter ago. Can you just talk about how you folks have been able to drive margins higher by driving higher route density?
Yeah.
It sounds like you folks feel like there's room to drive that higher. Can we just talk about, one, where the margins are now, how far they've come, and what's driven just for a truck-based business to have the type of margins that we're about to talk about in a minute is just really impressive. Would love to unpack that.
Yeah. Sure. I'll start maybe just by stepping back and a few sentences about the business, Jerry, and I like to start there because I think it is a part of our business that's a little bit underappreciated sometimes when you think about what we've been able to do in that business. I'd start off by saying that the last three, four, five years we've seen this business grow at a consistent kind of 7%+ top line growth rate. How are we doing that? Think about all the small and medium sized businesses out there that produce some level of hazardous waste. They got to get rid of that. Our Safety-Kleen branch business has become very much a subscription-based model where we're going out on a regular basis to these businesses, and we are collecting their containerized waste, often in 55 gallon drums.
We are providing them with parts washer services, we are doing vac services, and it's really kind of a one-stop shop where we can do a lot of things. It's non-discretionary spend in a lot of cases, and it's a relatively small piece of the overall spending, but it's very, very important services. Complementary to that, we've done a great job on the Safety-Kleen branch side of holding onto our drivers. The drivers are kind of the heartbeat of the business. They're in box trucks and things alike, and they're going out and making five or six or seven stops a day. Through the last five or six years, holding onto those people, those people be more efficient. They're more efficient with how they do their jobs. They get to know the customers, and they're able to cross-sell.
We've also introduced incentive programs that provide these drivers with an opportunity during their day to do some sales prospecting, to stop, to introduce themselves, to maybe pick up another drum of waste. When you can get that one incremental drum or two incremental drums or an additional service on that same route with the same driver and the same truck, all that revenue is going to drop straight to the bottom line, except for maybe a little of that incentive cookie that we're going to give the driver. Those types of things, holding onto our people, expanding that platform, that's what's driven that Safety-Kleen branch business to 7% almost every quarter, every year growth rate. Then when you think about the volume pulling in there and each additional drum, we're looking at margins in that business. Overall environmental services, I mentioned earlier, 26%.
These margins are in the 30% plus neighborhood.
More volume into that leverageable network, feeding the beast. We believe that we can continue to grow this business. I think in many cases, we're taking market share as well as we continue to build this business in certain geographies and kind of leverage some of our footprint in the TS space, and bring SK trucks into that area as well. Just really a great business, very accretive from a cash flow perspective as well. Really good kind of pricing power where these customers, as long as we're providing great service and they know their drivers and they know we're going to show up, we can consistently price them at inflation or above.
Great.
The Safety-Kleen branches really feed so much of the network. Only about 30% of the drums they collect are for incineration. It's going to landfills, it's going to salt and recycling, it's going to wastewater. As we do these smart acquisitions, like the Terra Nova one we recently did that add solidification permits and water discharge permits, and you lay that into our network, the returns are terrific. It's why that growing monster from the Safety-Kleen branch that just keeps feeding everything is so important to us. When we get in meetings with you folks, it's typically, let's talk about incinerators, let's talk about the spread business, let's talk about this and that. Everyone kind of overlooks the beauty of the Safety-Kleen branch business.
Because it's tough to imagine that truck-based business instead of making 10% margins, making over 30% margins. It was 10% margins five years ago, was it not? Somewhere in that range. How long have you been operating at this level of performance?
On the Safety-Kleen branch side, they haven't been 10% margins. They were healthier than that. Certainly each and every year, we're expanding margins kind of in that 50, 60 basis point area, across Safety-Kleen branch, and just a really highly accretive business. Again, through volume growth, taking market share, continuing to deliver great service and then pricing accordingly.
What's the moat? Because if you're making 30% margins and you've got two and a half capital turns, obviously you're gaining share. Clearly the moat is there. Help us understand that a little bit more.
When you talk about moat, the business has a very strong moat. Jim just mentioned a lot of times you talk about the incinerators, there's a moat there. When you think about, again, we are picking up hazardous waste even on the Safety-Kleen branch side. That Safety-Kleen branch side you have to have special permits to be able to handle that waste, and that's where the moat is. To be able to collect that hazardous waste. Bring it to one of our TSDFs. These are kind of stops along the way to ultimate disposal where we can store hazardous waste. We can repackage, we do some treating there. We try to pull some things out that we can recycle. Having those permits, which are very difficult to obtain, green fielding permits like that is very difficult.
That kind of creates the moat that is utilized kind of across that waste collection business. Again, incinerators is probably the biggest moat, but the collection, being able to store and treat hazardous waste along the way before it gets to its end disposal is almost just as valuable.
Just for my frame of reference, where would margins have been five years ago? Would 25 instead of 30, or was it?
You'd think about this margin five years ago, probably in the mid to high 20%. Over the last five years, kind of increasing margins in this space, 600, 700 basis points in the Safety-Kleen branch. I like to take it kind of a step back and again, look at the environmental services segment in totality. Technical Services, Safety-Kleen branch that we've just spent the last few minutes speaking about, field services and industrial services. If you look at that as a combined environmental services segment and you go back in time, Jerry, I'll go way back. You look at nine years ago. We've expanded margins again last year, landing at about 26%. We've expanded margins over the last nine years by 850 basis points. We've expanded margins in that business over the last five, about 460 basis points.
Just a really good story by continuing to gain traction with volumes, price strategically, and really vertically integrate all aspects of those businesses.
Before we talk about the incineration business, the M&A part of the Clean Harbors story has been really additive. You folks have generally bought assets 11 times EBITDA, post synergies eight times EBITDA, and increased densification. What's the pipeline look like from here? How much runway do you have to do continued runway? Then the lack of activity in 2025, just talk about was that an issue of not enough companies coming to market or other moving pieces?
Yeah, great question. I'd start off with the pipeline for acquisitions kind of in our core space, we believe remains quite strong. Even recently, we're seeing a lot of opportunities come our way, viewing a lot of books kind of on a weekly basis. We've gotten two acquisitions kind of over the goal line in 2026. They fit nicely kind of into our Technical Services and Field Services space. I think there's still quite a runway. Both with tuck-ins of the size of the recent acquisitions and larger. I think there's plenty of things kind of in our core space. If I look back to 2025, Jerry, still, I think the pipeline quite busy. Last year, we were very active, looked at a lot of things.
They were just some of the things we looked at got to a point where when we look at acquisitions, they need to fit strategically, operationally, culturally, and financially. I think some of the opportunities last year from a financial standpoint got a little higher than we would like and probably couldn't check that box. We pivoted. We introduced some organic projects. From a capital allocation perspective, we allocated more to share repurchases, returned value to shareholders that way. Framing back to the acquisitions, I think you look back at the 45-year history of the company, acquisitive growth has been a real engine for us, and I think it will continue to be in the future, and I think there's plenty of things that we can do kind of in our core swim lanes.
In terms of in 2025, just the timing of assets coming to market maybe you didn't like, or were you close on deals? Can you give us any context?
No, we were definitely close on deals. As I said, for one reason or another, got down to the end and we're outbid by the winners. One of the things, one of the core tenets of Clean Harbors is we're going to be really responsible with our capital. We're going to look at returns. We're going to be strict at certain levels and stay within those levels that we deem are appropriate based on the assets we're getting. I'm pretty proud of the team for the groundwork and strength to get to a point and say, "Okay, we're not going to go above this," and that's what we saw in 2025.
Ecstatic about the two that we've done this year again, you look at Terra Nova, a great acquisition based in the Carolinas, brings more volume into our network. Like I said, there's more opportunities to bring things into that core space going forward.
To shift gears to talk about incinerators. Kimball, you folks have laid out progress that's tracking pretty close to plan. As you folks have brought that online, to what extent has that driven additional conversations for you folks with other customers that might be reaching the decision of invest or outsource on their incinerators? Is there a potential that we're sitting here a year from now and we're talking about Kimball 2.0?
Yeah. What you're probably alluding to, Jerry, is just another tailwind we see in the business in terms of captive incineration. There's companies out there that have captive incinerators. These are incinerators where they can burn their waste. There's been a movement to close some of these, and you're referring to the possibility that more of these will close and send their waste streams to Clean Harbors. A few years ago, 3M was a company that did that with their captive incinerator, and we were the beneficiary of those waste streams. I'd say that's still a tailwind for us. It's still an opportunity as we move forward. We still have discussions, many of the captive operators are customers of ours today. They send us their waste streams that they can't handle in their captives or when they're in turnaround.
I think the possibility is real here. Eric, I know it's real, that over time, I think you'll continue to have these examples of those waste streams moving into the commercial space. As I said, we keep active contact. We have a gentleman that's in charge of keeping that relationship going. We talk about, in discussions with those captives, about how we can save them operating costs, we can save them capital expenditures. We can handle some of the more complex waste streams that are coming out of some of those factories and manufacturing sites. I think it's definitely a tailwind.
The timing is what's a little bit of a question mark. Between captives, between reshoring, nearshoring, between improved economic environment overall, PFAS, which we really haven't talked about, but that opportunity also kind of picking up steam and growing at rates that are exceeding our expectations coming into the year. All those things will cause us to consider in the future, hey, another new incinerator or increasing throughput through some of our current kilns. Really an exciting time. Lots of tailwinds. I'd say that when the time is right, we will strongly entertain another facility.
Any scenario where you folks could step in and take over a captive incinerator, or are these just two old assets that are too inefficient for the most part?
Yeah. It gets tricky. I think, the two biggest concerns are the technology, and there's some upgrade, but also a lot of these captives are, they're on-site, they're in the middle of a production area, if you will. Certainly if we took one over, we'd want to commercialize it, so it turns into a permit modification. Just the ability to get in and out of these sites with customer waste makes it a little tricky.
Hmm. Can we double-click on the PFAS tracking ahead of expectations? Please say more.
Yeah, I'd love to turn it over to Carol.
Sure.
As head of sales. I will say the expectations around PFAS are kind of growing by the day internally, and we're really excited about it.
Yeah. I would say with our total PFAS solution, we have an end-to-end solution, that coupled with our recent publication of disposal recommendations, has garnered a lot of interest and response from customers out there, from both an inquiry, though, as well as action. When you think about, in today's environment, emergency response, there are emergency responses that we are a part of, UPS recently being one of them, the plane that goes down. We are on site, and AFFF is released to put out the flame, and therefore we are in a PFAS situation where people will immediately need to respond to that. There are those types of opportunities, but also as we think about water filtration and remediation, where we're seeing a lot of progress and movement right now, there's just a plethora of momentum.
If you listen to the experts, a TAM of potentially $100 billion-$300 billion, which is a large market. It's just really a matter of mobilizing folks to act today and to just continue to have those conversations. I would say the pipeline is extraordinarily strong. We are really excited about our unique position to have an end-to-end solution.
PFAS is being driven by regulation, litigation, and even public relations. It's hard to go more than a few days without reading about forever chemicals in the news.
What's the revenue contribution this year, expectations for next year?
We came into the year thinking that, building upon the $120 million that we had in PFAS revenue in 2025, we thought 20% growth rate would be appropriate. As we sit here kind of through Q1 and halfway through Q2, I think we're seeing more opportunity than we had anticipated, and I would expect the growth rate around PFAS to be greater than. I think to Jim's point, you're just seeing a lot of people and a lot of companies, when there's a PFAS hit, they want to deal with it right away. I think we're excited near term with some of the opportunities that are coming our way. Also long term, just a huge opportunity for Clean Harbors. We're in the catbird seat when you think about that total PFAS solution and everything we have in place today.
The $120 million, what's the mix of that within incinerators versus collection versus emergency response? Roughly.
Yeah, I'd say roughly, a third of that is probably filtration, maybe a little bit more. A third of that is kind of ER response. Maybe the rest of it is as releases happen. I think early days on incineration, I think, many of us believe, and we believe that that will be the best long-term solution, certainly for high concentrations of PFAS. I think that incineration outlet will be something that grows over time. It's great that incineration has been recognized as one of the most effective ways to get rid of PFAS.
Super. Thank you. Please join men in thanking Eric, Carol, and Jim for coming out. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.