All right, good morning. Welcome to Oppenheimer's 26th Annual Technology, Internet & Communications Conference . I'm Edward Yang, research analyst, Oppenheimer's Cloud and Communications team. We got Timothy Horan, group head, who will lead Q&A. This is a fireside chat format, so please send us your questions into the dashboard. Today, we're very pleased to host CFO and COO of Amdocs, Tamar Rapaport-Dagim. Starting a little bit.
All set, Ed?
Yeah. Yeah, I think we're waiting for.
Oh, for Tamar.
Tamar to get set up again, yes.
Sorry.
Okay. Yeah.
How you doing?
Well, Tamar, great to see you again.
Sorry about that. Let me move the chair here, just in case it doesn't move me. Okay.
I think we're, I think we're good. All right, Tim, you wanna kick us off with questions?
Yeah. Hey, Tamar, thanks for the time. Really appreciate it. Tamar, can you just give us a little bit more color on Amdocs? Maybe just describe the company a little bit in terms of number of employees, you know, how do, how do these employees break down between maybe, you know, software programmers or, you know, sales and marketing? Can you maybe just describe, too, the 3 or 4 kind of primary products and services and, and, and how they've evolved over the last years to kick off? Thank you.
Thank you, Tim. Hi, everyone. Good to, good to be here. Amdocs is a player in the IT and technology space, serving primarily the telecommunication and media industry as a provider of the capabilities, both the software as well as deployment services, to provide the service providers the ability to digitize themselves, to automate their business processes, to move to the cloud. That's definitely a big driver that we're starting to see as much more compelling into our growth rates. Oh, naturally, all the, the shift that is happening in terms of network automation and, and the 5G journey that the service providers are going through globally in different, different pace in different regions. We are very excited about innovation.
It's kind of the DNA of the company, and then naturally, as we are going now, as the world is going on the generative AI, as the recent innovation wave, we are embracing it, and I would love to talk about that more, as we go along, as, as well as the fact of how Amdocs is taking this innovation in a practical way to help our customers to move ahead. We are working in 90 countries, serving the industry-leading operators across North America, Europe, and, and the region called rest of the world, which include primarily APAC and Latin America. We have roughly 30,000 employees spread in different development centers in the world.
Ranging, in terms of our revenue growth, between 6%-10%, and generating total shareholders' return, as defined by EPS growth, plus about 2% dividend yield, at double-digit for the third consecutive year, as we are talking about our fiscal year 2023.
Very, very good. Could you talk a little bit about maybe what your differentiation or moats around your business, kinda, you know, core competencies? What sets you apart from any competitors out there?
I think to think about Amdocs, it starts with the vertical focus. We are coming with, with years, many, many decades, I would say, of expertise, taking technology and software and serving the communication industry, which is creating a, a unique angle to, to how we're thinking about things. We are coming also with a unique business model, taking full accountability that includes both best-in-class software that is relevant for the needs of our customers, the responsibility to actually deploy that software in our customer's environment, and take the full responsibility to bring them to what we call the finish line of the project phase, the setup phase, that software in their production environment. If our customers agree to, we'll also support and run this software stack for our customers.
Under a model that is typically including multi-year engagement, we call it managed services. Managed services engagements already comprise roughly 60% of our revenue, and we believe that this full accountability model will not only will bring the best technology, but also take the responsibility to make this technology achieve its business value in the customer environment is, is pretty unique one. Typically, the competition environment we're seeing is either, you know, software pure play, some system integrators that are coming and trying to stitch together different technologies and software, and including sometimes different players that are coming from a multi-vertical angle and trying to come into the communication market.
We're coming with a combination of both the vertical-specific expertise, as well as the focus on what we call the full accountability, end-to-end of the software, and deploying it and servicing in the customer environment.
Edward Yang here is really our in-house expert on AI, and I, I know AI is a huge opportunity for you. You have incredible historical data. I know you've been partnering with Microsoft on a few different endeavors, both for customer engagement and figuring out how to come up with new AI products, and I'll, I'll let kinda Ed kinda go through that with you now. Ed?
Yeah, Tamar, if we could dive deeper into the generative AI piece of your business. You had 2 major announcements this year, the exclusive partnership with Microsoft for CRM and that's directed to CSPs. This quarter, you also had amAIz, your generative AI platform for carriers. When you look at those 2 businesses, you know, what, what's your differentiation and moat with AI? Is it your data? Is it the applications, the industry expertise?
I, I, I would say the fact that everybody's looking on generative AI is clear, and everybody's trying to run as fast as possible, and so, so are we. We're coming at it from, again, an understanding of the specific needs of the service providers, of the telecom industry, and trying to come. I think that's enabling us to move very fast in answering the generative AI needs and embedding the generative AI needs in our offering to our customers, as well as to come with specific needs of the telecommunication industry. Let me, let me give you maybe some examples. When you think about what it means to be carrier grade, for example, resiliency of the system, ability to scale, response time, you can't wait 40 seconds for the next step. It needs to be literally real time, milliseconds.
You need to be very aware of the cost aspect and how to run it in the best way. What's the best route to use generative AI for the specific case that is required now for the communication industry? To have the flexibility to move to different kind of access, to LLMs based on the specific needs that is happening at that moment. Things around security level, that has to be extremely robust, of course. There are more aspects to it. The way we are thinking about it, and that's what we, we, we came fast with it, what we believe is the leading industry framework of generative values in amAIz. We call it the amAIz, and that includes both the deployment of generative AI into all our product stack.
By September of this year, all of our software portfolio stack will be with generative AI embedded in. Just to give some context, even pre-generative AI, our products of software portfolio is modular. It means that every customer choosing to go with our software stack doesn't have to take it all in. They can choose certain parts of it, they can move and modernize in a gradual way. From their point of view, knowing now that every product that they're choosing from our software portfolio, beginning of September, has generative AI embedded in it, is obviously a very strong message. On top of that, as I said before, helping our customers actually deploy the software in their environment, integrate it, and also support it under managed services.
If you think about what it means, it means that not only we understand the data model and the telco taxonomy, we actually run a lot of the operations IT systems around leading customers around the world, and have years, over a decade of experience in understanding different incidents and different issues that may happen there. Taking all of that internal knowledge that we have and putting generative AI on top of that, in terms of how we run operations, can accelerate significantly the value we can bring customers. Things like self-healing processes, things that are automating, you know, there are different aspects of zero-touch operations we started even before generative AI, and we actually started to support and have been selected by customers for the CloudOps, with the north star being, you know, zero-touch operations.
With generative AI, of course, we can accelerate that journey and use that internally. We see this as being a major differentiation, both, again, the combination of our software products that will be with generative AI embedded in it, as well as how we run the deployment and the operations of the IT environment for our customers.
And, when Microsoft chose you as, as sort of the partner for this, vertical, did they, evaluate other partners or communicate, you know, why they went with Amdocs?
It's actually an interesting story. Our partnership with Microsoft started around the Customer Engagement Platform, which is very complementary to our product suite. When we are thinking about the domains that Microsoft is bringing in their customer engagement domain, around sales force automation, lead management, et cetera, this is coming at the front end of what we bring later on, from on the commerce aspect of capturing the order, fulfilling the order, charging and monetizing for this service provided to the end customer. The partnership with Microsoft started around that, and that has been launched already in Mobile World Congress in February, getting great feedback from the customers, from analysts. Then came generative AI into the picture, and as Microsoft naturally is the market leader, we are partnering now in a very strong way with Microsoft around how to take generative AI forward.
Frankly speaking, around generative AI, we will see Microsoft as a great partner, but it will not be an exclusive partnership in the sense that we want to give our customers the optionality of how to embed generative AI, in which way and when they want. They want to choose different LLMs, you know, whether it's the Meta Llama, whether it's OpenAI. Of course, we, we, we have our viewpoint, we have a professional aspect around this in terms of how to do it most effectively. Again, thinking into also the aspect of the cost effectiveness, not just the performance. We want, of course, to work and leverage the relationship with Microsoft, having access to their best engineering teams around that, which is wonderful. We are using the Microsoft relationship to a large extent around the Customer Engagement Platform and going together to customers.
We are the prime, we are integrated into our portfolio stack. We are taking the, again, full accountability model, but we are deploying the end-to-end solution, including, the Microsoft Dynamics telco version. That's supposed to get a very interesting upside in terms of the opportunity of what we can sell to the market. Sales processes started naturally in the last several months. We're getting good feedback, but it's still early to talk about, you know, actual wins. We definitely see the pipeline evolving very nicely and excited about that. Now, bringing into this relationship the angle of generative AI, of course, it's a great added value.
You mentioned some of the complexities and, and quirks with the CSP market, and they've been a little bit slower to embrace cloud for, for similar reasons as well. Are they ready for these products, or are there bottlenecks to resolve before they could deploy them?
I think they're very excited about that, and actually they're looking to see how to, you know, to move quickly in a way that enables them the right flexibility at the right cost structure. We're the. I'm not objective, of course, but I think we are the best partner for them to really do that. In terms of moving fast, we understand their environment. We are already deployed in over 300 customers in the industry. We have the standard data models, we have the technology capabilities, and we're bringing this really fast to market. As I said before, as early as next month, we are ready already with generative AI within our software product portfolio. We've been in dialogues with many of our customers. We see them moving ahead. I don't think there are any roadblocks, if you will.
It's a matter of, you know, which pace they want to do it, where is the first domains that they want to deploy it. Our job is to bring them the best capabilities and best engines to address that and leverage this opportunity. Again, it's moving really fast. We're getting wonderful feedback about amAIz, the generative AI platform and framework we are building. I think it's going to be a wonderful, I would say, accelerator to why people go and modernize.
There are many reasons why to invest in modernization, right? Whether you're moving to improve your customer experience, whether you want to be 5G ready, or whether it's about moving to the cloud. Now it's another accelerator of what's the value in modernizing your system. We find it as, you know, another exciting opportunity to talk about and accelerate decisions for modernization of our customers.
Maybe just a final question on this topic, and you could put it, put on your CFO hat. You know, there are concerns about the cost of GenAI. You know, do you think it's gonna be margin and ARPU accretive to Amdocs? Also, how does it affect your capital allocation? Because traditionally, you've had very nice free cash flow margins, and you've returned 100% of that annually to shareholders, either through dividends and share buybacks, and you just did upsize the buyback to $1.3 billion. Does investing in generative AI change that math at all?
I think it, it's a great point, as, as we all get excited about the value of generative AI, of course, we need to think all the time how we are taking the cost aspect into consideration. It has to do with how we design everything we do. From the software development life cycle, and how we leverage generative AI to improve the velocity of development, to improve the productivity, in other words, of how we develop software. It has to do with how we are taking massive data and information we have about supporting incidents in our customers' environment over the years, and running faster to analyze and solve those issues. As I said before, with the ideal being that self-healing will become more and more prominent in our delivery. Many, many opportunities we see, including naturally within corporate functions, support functions, et cetera.
Many opportunities we see to continue and accelerate the automation that we've already started doing even before the generative AI era, as part of the margin expansion story, you see. If you look on Amdocs, we are gradually expanding margins from year to year, and a lot of that has been achieved through automation. Generative AI now is a wonderful opportunity to continue that journey to the level that even though we are not even formally guiding yet for 2024, as our fiscal year has not ended for 2023, we already have the visibility and the concrete path of how we see margin expansion already in 2024.
Definitely that's, that's a positive aspect of, of how we are thinking about generative value when we're looking inbound, in terms of how we are seeing the opportunity beyond what I talked before, which was about how we are serving our customers. In addition to that, when we look on capital allocation, I, I don't see any reason why the earning to cash aspects of Amdocs should change from the, you know, being on par over time. It's not for us, not a capital-intensive journey. Of course, we want to invest, we want to invest in tools, in R&D, in different things that will help us serve. This is within the overall spend environment that we are thinking about while we are looking into the margin expansion opportunity.
I don't think this is going to change the, the capital, I would say, generation of our model, you know, going back to the earning to cash conversion. Also, you know, as well as we touched, as long as we touched on capital allocation, you know, the way we've been thinking about capital allocation is that the majority of our cash flow is going back to shareholders in the form of a dividend that is increasing from year to year, double digit, and then the share repurchase. We just got additional authorization from our board last week of additional $1.1 billion for our share repurchase program. You know, it's a strong indication of our confidence in the model moving forward, and the fact we believe that while we are continuing to invest in innovation organically.
to a large extent, but definitely also supported by M&A, we have the capital capacity to continue to return most of our cash flow to, to shareholders. That model is part of the investment thesis of how a company that is growing at a high single digit can actually generate double-digit shareholders' return on a continuous level.
I, can I just maybe refocus back on AI? Because it's pretty fascinating, what you've done. You know, to be able to embed this in your, most of your software or all your software, it sounds like in September, I mean, that, that's pretty incredible. I mean, you, you've moved like unbelievably rapidly, here. You know, can you just talk about how hard it was to do? Have you actually been able to use your, your, a decade or more worth of data to, basically train the models already? Can you just talk about that whole process a little bit?
I think it starts with, with the, the, the, the architecture of our software stack that is very robust, and, and the fact that we have a software portfolio that is sitting on top of a common foundation in terms of the architecture, yet is modular. That's the power of the suite, right? I mean, on the one hand, we have a lot of products that we offer to the market, but the underlying architecture is very robust and, and common. We can move fast in terms of how we're making changes in our portfolio. When we say generative AI is embedded in our products as soon as September, doesn't mean the journey is over, of course, and I'm sure we will continue and, and build more and more capabilities and, and move as, as the industry as a whole is moving fast around this, right?
The capabilities in terms of, what's generative AI is all about are evolving, and, and we want to be ahead of the curve in terms of taking those capabilities and providing those, engines, into our software product portfolio. We've been all over it with great focus, starting with our head of technology and CTO of the company, all the way to all the functions in the company. It's not just, not just a technology group initiative, it's something that is a cross-company initiative. As I said before, part of our uniqueness is that we don't only bring the software and say, "Hey dear customer, here, take it," and throw it over the fence. We actually bring that software and make sure that we help our customers deploy that successfully.
The understanding, not only in terms of how to embed that into the technology of our products, but also, okay, what does it mean now to move ahead and deploy the gen AI capabilities? Definitely connects also to our understanding of the whole ecosystem, understanding of the data structure. We've been very active around AI and the data aspects of our customers before generative AI. Obviously, that's a great jumping board when we think about generative AI, and also in terms of, okay, what does it mean then to operate the software later on, and what kind of use cases can we take into the ongoing environment, the ongoing needs of our customers? Yes, it's fast. Yes, it's a journey.
We are going to continue to invest heavily into that in order to move fast and, and actually make amAIz a more robust framework as we move along and, and learn very fast how to take the benefits of generative AI. In addition, you know, it's a, it's a continuous development, continuous integration process. As soon as we bring more capabilities into our product, we can bring it fast to our customers in terms of them getting the value from it.
Do you think this is gonna be a major improvement to your software and to the functionality for your customers, you know, in what you've experimented with so far?
I think it's a, it's a, it's a great addition to the software in terms of what you can do and how fast you can move, and how easy it is for our customers to use the capabilities of the software. S o, so let's say, you know, the catalog is a major part of our software stack. It's where you actually define the offers to the market. What are the attributes of the service offers to the market, how they connect later on to pricing, et cetera.
Think about, you know, with generative AI, you can literally just say, "I want now a new offer to be relevant for this demographics in this city. I want this to be relevant for a price level of such and such." You can even do it in speech, in, in just speaking, right? Regular speaking, which is means that every marketer in the organization potentially can do that. They don't need technical translation on the way. The speed in which you can move using these capabilities, just using this specific example of just the catalog, it's amazing. The catalog is a very robust product. Many leading service providers in the world already bought our catalog from, you know, Korea, all the way to Verizon, and obviously many others.
Now, adding generative AI capabilities into our catalog is obviously accelerating the way in which our customers can move and use that. Speed to market, and being very relevant in terms of the market offers you go with, is what it's all about, right? I think this is just one example out of many of the use cases that can evolve in terms of what are the capabilities that are being added to the softwares.
I was just over to see you guys in Israel a month or so ago, and I was kind of amazed about the new use cases. I didn't really realize you were kind of getting them out that quickly. Has this generated a lot of interest from your customers? I mean, have your conversations increased with your customers and leads increased as a result of GenAI?
Yes, definitely. I think there was a great, great dialogue going on and definitely, you know. Shortly after your visit to our experience center in Israel, we had, for example, a massive event for industry analysts, with dozens of industry analysts coming into this event. We already shared some initial ideas, and yes, the progress is really fast. Every week it's moving to another phase. Already then, when we shared the thesis with them, we got a great feedback. We had another session with top executives of our customers, and it's like it's, it's moving forward. That's why I said, you know, we need technology to journey. On the one hand, we are moving very fast. We've already launched the market.
We have amAIz, which is definitely way ahead in terms of the market understanding and realization of how generative AI can serve the industry. It will keep moving ahead and changing, and we invest in thinking how to do it. I'm sure that with the earlier use cases being deployed, we will learn a lot together with our customers, how to make it even better and better. Also, where are the right fine-tunings of what is relevant and practical for what our customers need? Yes, we're very excited about that. I, I think we will see in the next several quarters, this adoption happening, and hopefully, you know, starting to impact revenue as we move along and, and we move very fast. That I can promise you.
I know on, on the last quarter call, you know, you talk about, and you, you've mentioned it a few times now, you really need to be on the cloud to really take advantage of GenAI, and your customers now have really kind of gotten the mindset, 'All right, we really have to modernize and move to the cloud, and, and really digitize and kind of figure out how to monetize our data and automate our business a lot more.'
You know, so it means they're spending maybe a little bit less on some of the legacy systems that they had. Is that a fair characterization? Can you talk about maybe how much of your revenue or growth historic, you know, is what you would consider more legacy at this point, how the business model kind of breaks down, so we can understand the impact over the next, you know, couple of years?
I think it, look, naturally, maybe legacy is just one of the words. Like, there is an install base. The industry is running on current systems, and a lot of these current systems are run by Amdocs. Majority of our large customers are running their system, they're running the software, on an ongoing basis just to serve their markets. You know, this is, this is their day-to-day. In many of these opportunities, we are running those softwares under a managed services engagement. Nothing changes there. This is something that is under multi-year contracts, running and continuing to serve the need. Now, it's a matter of, okay, as you modernize and you're making big decisions on modernization and spending capital on that as a service provider, how much do you continue to invest in enhancing your existing system until the new system is ready?
It's a natural decision, right? Currently, your go-to-market, your new initiatives to the market are running on your current system. Let's say that you're building now a full new stack, and this new stack will be ready fully in two years. Okay, what do you do in the midterm? Do you continue to enhance the legacy, the existing system that you have? How much do you invest in that relative to the fact you know you're investing in your future? There are wide periods, obviously short, right, in terms of enhancing the legacy. What we've seen recently is some big customers that are investing in their future in a meaningful way and chose Amdocs to do so, which is wonderful. We are the partner for building the future, prioritize more, how much they are enhancing this existing systems until the new one is ready.
This is what you mentioned. This was like a reason why in the short term, we've seen some, I would say, softness in the guidance for current year growth, that instead of midpoint being 8%, we said midpoint, we are expecting 7.6%. It's not a huge change. You can sense roughly $20 million, but it is something we wanted to be very transparent about and share with the market. The most important thing is there is modernization going on. More and more customers said they realize they need to move to the cloud. If they want to benefit from generative AI capabilities, they need to move to the cloud even more than what they did it before.
They're choosing Amdocs to do so, and we are the partner for the future, and we are coming all the time with more and more innovation. That makes them understand, okay, not only what we invested so far, we are committed to investing in the future and bringing more and more innovation that will be relevant for their needs. We continue to see many great examples of more customers making these decisions. Last week, we shared, and, we see Canada, the Canadian market, moving ahead with the shift to the cloud. We've been selected by Bell Canada to be their partner to move to the cloud. We have activities now with Telus in Canada to move to the cloud.
Obviously, outside, in, in other international markets, where we've gave examples in Philippines, et cetera, and actually, you know, in, in the U.S., for those that are less familiar with us, we are, we are the partner of T-Mobile, of AT&T, of, of many others in their journey to the cloud. I think generative AI is going to be an accelerator, and it's going to be another reason for those that haven't made the move yet to go ahead and move.
I, I know. Can you talk about the great, great color? You don't. Can you just talk about maybe where your penetration is in Europe, and is this changing the conversations there? I know Verizon, they're taking more of your products, and, you know, it, it, is, is, is GenAI kind of a, another real selling point as you're talking to the customers right now? Do you expect to maybe, you know, get some more wins in Europe at this point?
In terms of region split, about two-thirds of our business is North America, then another third in the rest of the world. For us, the European business has been a tremendous success in the recent several quarters, and it wasn't by surprise. Something, obviously, we saw coming and talked about it already last year, that we're starting to see this strong momentum in Europe being built, and we're growing double-digit, strong double-digit, over 20% in the recent quarter in Europe. The driver for that has been the strategic growth areas we've been talking about, the continuous shift to digital and customer experience. We, by the way, more focused also on the business segment of our customers, what is called B2B.
We see it also in other places in the world, I can touch about that later, but specifically in Europe, we continue to see digital transformation as a driver, consolidation, and the need in the consolidated and merged entity to provide a much better customer experience. Obviously, getting ready for 5G and the move to the cloud and the network. So these have been there, the drivers all along, as we've seen now, success in Europe, and for us, Europe, it's not just about, okay, how do we modernize existing customers? A lot of that is about adding more and more new logos. We've been under-penetrated in Europe, it is a great opportunity for us to expand our footprint with more customers in the European market, which is happening as we speak.
Generative AI is a nice add-on to all of that, another accelerator for more to move hopefully into modernization, which is a great thing for us. Typically, our entry point, let me just to clarify, typically, our entry point into a new customer is via modernization. This is where they need to choose, "Okay, we're deploying a new stack. We need the best in class." This is where they get to know Amdocs. Oftentimes, they choose us to be the partners, so that we have a very high win rate. They choose Amdocs to be the partner for that modernization, and then we manage over time.
Again, not all customers, but a lot of the customers, we manage over time to make this a more recurring relationship, all the way to what I call the, the North Star model, which is the full managed services, where we continue to be the partner, run the systems for them, and then continue in the modernization path. I think the fact that we also brought, especially for the smaller carriers in Europe, the fact we can provide a modular modernization path is extremely important. Because not necessarily they have the capacity or the risk appetite to do a rip-out of the existing system and bring it all in of the new stack. They want to move in a more gradual way, and we are providing very good path to do so.
Again, based on the modularity of our product set, also in terms of the capability we've provided for those that already have our installed legacy systems, to shift to the cloud in a modular way. We also have acquired a couple of years ago, high-end consulting group around the journey to the cloud. Now we are coming to our customers from a very early stage of let's advise and consult and think about what's the right journey to the cloud for you, given how much you want to invest, where is your biggest pain point, how we can do it in a, in a path that fits your need, dear customer. Then taking that to the actual execution, leveraging our technology, leveraging our deployment services, migration to the cloud, and all the way to the full managed services.
We see that story more and more. Also, by the way, we are seeing extension to East Europe. We're talking about a couple of wins in East Europe, quite interesting. We see there more investment in modernization, some private equity groups that have acquired assets and building one stack for these assets across multiple countries. That's another example we've seen. So, strong momentum in Europe. Definitely continue to see the relationship evolving with Vodafone, a long-time customer of us in Europe, but many more new logos are adding up.
We're getting close to time. I had two more questions, then I'll turn over to Ed for the final one. Have you been able to use GenAI to improve your own productivity? I know you have a huge amount of software programmers, obviously, and, obviously, your, your sales motion. Can you just talk about what you're doing internally with it?
Definitely. When you think about Amdocs.
I think we may have some connectivity issues here with Tamar.
Yeah. Thanks, Tamar. We were just kind of talking about using GenAI to improve your own productivity internally. Can you give us some examples and some initiatives there?
Yeah, sure. As a software company, we're using, obviously, software development cycle in everything we do, from developing products, and developing our deployment services to customers, all the way to actually running the systems under our managed services practices. We see that as a big opportunity to see how we are improving things from, requirement to definition, all the way to how we actually develop the code, all the way to testing, et cetera. There are many ideas of how to take generative AI, and ideas that are already starting to be deployed. It's too early to say, "Okay, we can gain that kind of productivity points." But we've been seeing great early signs and a lot of them, let's call it, the thesis looks compelling, and the actual early proof points look great.
That is building our confidence to, to how we can build it actually into many things we do. This is just one example in terms of the actual development of software, obviously around support functions and, and many other things. Short answer, yes, we see many things that we can improve and change in terms of the productivity in how we do things. It's relatively early, time, time will move by, and we'll be more concrete in terms of what are the measures that we are seeing in terms of magnitude.
can you remind us just your long-term kind of targets for revenue growth, you know, at this point, and, you know, just your.
Yes.
Thinking, yeah.
Sure. We've been tracking at 6%-10% in terms of our target. We've expanded our serviceable addressable market, given our recent strategy to expand to more domains. Maybe shortly, we've been dealing for years with the digital transformation. That has been an addressable market of roughly $30 billion. Moving into and expanding to cloud, 5G, network automation, we talked about the serviceable addressable market doubling to roughly $60 billion. That's a very important change.
Of course, now looking forward with how things are evolving, on the one hand, we do see macro pressures, we are seeing also the industry pressures, but on the other hand, those mega trends of investments that we've been identifying in our strategy and, you know, we talked a lot about generative AI is becoming like another layer on top of everything, is obviously giving us opportunity to see more modernization happening and also offer our customers new capabilities.
Oh, we, Tamar, a lot of moving parts. We have macro on the negative side, we have legacy on the negative side, but we have cloud and we have GenAI. You know, your 6%-10% long-term guide, I guess, you know, are you feeling better about that now than you were 6 months ago, or, you know, what you've learned in the last few months or worse? You know, how are you thinking about that 6%-10% long-term guide?
Look, we are almost ending fiscal year 2023. Naturally, in this time scale, we are building our plans and doing a much more bottom-up exercise of what is our thinking about fiscal 2024, specific growth rate within our overall time thinking. I, I think it's premature to say, "Okay, Let's be concrete. Looking into fiscal 2024, what's your growth rate?" I, I think this is a much more bottoms-up exercise than just looking on the overall long-term trends. The signs are there, the positive signs are there. Now, sometimes, you know, the reality is that we need to see what deal is signed, exactly at which time, and how it develops the revenue recognition over the quarters.
This is an exercise we'll do now and make sure that we come with the full information about that in November as we give guidance for 2024. I think the levers are there. The important thing that we are focusing all the time to see how we are leveraging these levers, how to generate the top-line growth and convert that into the margin expansion, and we are seeing the signs why margin expansion should continue. Then, of course, with the right focus on the capital allocation that I spoke about before, is how we take all of that to a double-digit shareholders' return in a consistent manner over the years. That's kind of the short summary from a financial point of view.
That's.
we'll have more concrete information around, specifically 2024, in November.
That's a great, great summary, and a, a really exciting time for you guys. You know, I really look forward to the guidance, as everyone else does too, but it sounds like it's gonna be pretty good. Yeah, the main thing is the long term, right? The next five to 10-year kind of growth, and it, it seems like you absolutely have it at this point. Tamar, thanks a lot for your time. Thanks, everybody. Have a great rest of.
Thank you very much, Tim.