counting down.
Okay.
Oh, my God!
So I think in the interest of time-
Yeah
... we're gonna keep the-
Okay.
We're here at day four. We're gonna keep the train moving along the tracks. Thanks, everyone. I know people are still finding their seats in the back of the room, but it's my pleasure to host the team from DoubleVerify here on day four of the Communicopia and Technology Conference. Nicola Allais, CFO, thanks for being part of the conference.
Yeah, thanks for having us.
And being back at the conference.
Yeah, that's correct.
You've been here before-
Yeah
... so we'd like to celebrate our returning guests, and always great to have a conversation with you and the team.
Yeah.
So maybe start big picture. I always like to level set for folks in the room and/or on the webcast and maybe know the story as well. Why don't you give us a little bit of background of the company and just level set, what is the company most focused on today?
Yeah. So, DoubleVerify is a company that provides protection and performance to advertisers who advertise on the for their digital advertising spend. What we do is we help advertisers make sure that their ads are placed in an environment that's fraud-free, viewable, brand safe, and brand suitable. We do that for both the open web and the social media platforms. We're integrated basically in all the large platforms that we need to be integrated with. The clients that we have are generally large brand advertisers that are looking for ways to make sure that their ad spend is in the right place.
We've been moving over time from just protection, which is keeping me away from bad stuff, to performance with the same data set, which is once you can tell an advertiser, "Don't be here, you're better here, and you improve your ROI." It's a company that's been growing double digits on top line. We have 30-plus% margin for several years going, and what we're focused on right now is really the performance side. As I said, just improving ROI, helping clients put ads where it's gonna be brand suitable and increase the ROI.
Okay. So, the two biggest themes here at the conference are the current macro environment and AI. I think we're gonna-
Really?
But I think-
Surprise, surprise.
Yes, exactly. I think we'll talk about AI-
Yeah
... as we go through our conversation, but maybe start with the macro environment.
Macro.
So there's a lot of mixed data points out there around both advertising and the broader macro.
Yeah.
You obviously had some clear messages coming out of your own earnings-
Mm-hmm
... a little over a month ago now. Why don't you talk a little bit about what you're seeing in terms of performance and outlook in this environment for the second half of 2024 at a level set?
Yeah.
Maybe I'll ask a few follow-ups, if possible.
Yeah. I think, look, I think the mood is cautiously optimistic that it's not gonna get worse. It is a bit uneven. There are many, many items that need to come to play in the next few months. There's a change in interest rate, there's the elections, which this season in particular feels like there's a lot of dollars going into the market, which might have some impact on brand advertisers saying, "You know, I'm gonna sit it out," partly because CPMs might be very high, but also because the content might be something where, rather than using our tool and very specifically know where they can put their ads, they might just say, "I'm gonna sit it out for a little bit." So there might be a little bit of an air pocket. I think the overall sentiment we have is that it's cautiously optimistic.
It's absolutely clear that it's too early to get a sense for what 2025 will look like, right?
Right.
All this needs to happen, and then we'll see how the advertisers feel about next year.
Understood. So specific to something you've called out, you've talked as a company about this cohort of six advertisers-
Mm-hmm
... that experienced headwinds in the first half of the year. Any update on how those advertisers are performing more recently, what you're looking for in terms of signs of recovery there?
Yeah.
Are you still confident that that's very idiosyncratic and somewhat ring-fenced as a cohort?
Yeah. Yeah, so I'll start with the last question. The last statement. Yes, we feel like it's very much contained to these six. It hasn't spread to other CPG or retail companies. So this is a cohort of advertisers that is essentially lowering their ad spend for the year based on issues that are very specific to the companies themselves. One of them is closing retail store locations, another one has some issues around the specific divisions that they have. So that leads to an uneven spend pattern. These clients are in our top clients, right? Three of these six are in our top 10. So as they're lowering their spend, obviously, it has an impact on our results. It remains uneven.
You know, in the Q2 call, we said it, and that's basically what we're sticking to, which is uneven. So as we get into 2025, you know, we anticipate this group to come back to a more normalized spend pattern, but it's likely that some of them won't, right?
Yeah.
As a whole, as a cohort, I think it will become a situation where it's probably not at the same rate of growth as the rest of the company.
Okay, clear. The other big debate around advertising trends is the widely defined category of CPG-
Yeah
... where, you know, at least from our work, what we hear is there's a lot of volatility across the category. That vertical in particular, while it has mixed data points, you called it out, excluding the cohort of six, as an area of strength on the most recent quarter.
Mm-hmm.
Talk a little bit more broadly about what you're seeing on CPG and what you more explicitly were trying to call out.
Yeah
... coming out of last earnings.
I think the one thing to remember here is we still have a lot of opportunities to grow.
Yeah.
And we still have a lot of new verticals and new channels where advertisers were not able to use verification. They're now using verification. So once you get into an actual area like CPG with the clients that we have, say, Mondelez or Unilever, these clients are growing with us because we're able to provide services that were not available necessarily in the prior years, right? So all of a sudden, you have brand safety and suitability on Meta. That's growth that is unrelated to what's happening in the macro space. So that is where we're seeing a lot of good traction.
Yeah.
And some of those clients are actually doing better than what we expected because we're still not penetrated everywhere, right? So when you get down to the actual clients and growth, that's kind of outside of the overall macro sentiment.
Understood. Okay, let's move beyond the current-
Yeah
... ad environment. I think the messaging there is super, super clear. I do wanna talk about what you talked about there last, the building blocks for growth.
Yes.
Medium-term and longer term. Let's turn first to social. That's been a nice contributor to growth. If you look back over the last couple of quarters, especially short-form video, you referenced Meta. How would you frame the advertiser adoption levels on those three major platforms? You've got Meta, you've got YouTube, you've got TikTok.
Yeah.
How do you see the unlock of things like brand safety and suitability on the Meta feed?
Yeah
... contributing in the quarters ahead?
Yeah. So to level set, we are now where we have tried to get to, which is brand safety, brand suitability, and all of our measurement tools are available on all platforms. It took a while to get Meta to get there. That is the first immediate opportunity we have. So only 50% of our top 100 were using the product before brand safety and suitability was launched on Meta, which was at the beginning of this year. We have the extra 50 to go after. We know we can get the penetration there. YouTube is the example where we're at 90% penetration, and we've had brand safety and suitability since 2019 on that platform. So first and foremost is wider application of the measurement tools on Meta.
We've signed 30 new clients to the Meta product since we launched brand safety and brand suitability. Not all of them are in the top 100, but it shows how, you know, there is traction. Clients were really waiting for that before they were gonna turn on the product. So that's on the measurement side. TikTok and YouTube, which you mentioned, have had these products. TikTok actually wanted to launch with the product-
Yeah.
and they did, which had a bit of a accelerating impact on Meta wanting to have it as well. So that's the measurement side. There's a lot to grow there. Social in total is still only about 20%, less than 20% of our total revenue. It's 60%-70% of all spend for advertisers. Like, that's the gap that we need to close. What we've learned through launching the Meta product, the brand safety and suitability on Meta, is that the real power of the tool is what we're gonna be focused on now, which is opening up the activation side of social. So that's the longer term opportunity that we're going after now, especially from a R&D perspective. And to just set the stage, what...
The power of our tool is, you use the measurement data to inform your activation data, that then allows you to bid on impressions that you know are gonna be good for you, right? So you use that data to inform the product here, and then all of a sudden, you have a loop of data. That exists on the open web. It's already existed for many, many years, and we've been very successful there. That's what we need to replicate on the social side. It's gonna take some time, because we need to integrate with every single platform.
So I do wanna go over a little bit deeper on that-
Yeah
... to close the loop on this. So when you look at that activation side, we get this question a lot from investors: How should investors think about the timeline?
Yeah
of closing that loop from moving
Yeah
- from where you are today on brand safety, suitability-
Yeah
Towards activation, and what are some of the gating factors?
Yeah.
So what are some of the execution hurdles you're trying to get over to build scale?
Yeah
On the activation side?
So unlike the open web, it's gonna be an integration platform by platform, so that alone tells you it's gonna take a bit of time. The good news for us is we already have this for YouTube. We have a product in the market. It's a pre-screen tool. It already exists on YouTube. We've been in market with this for several years, so we know what the model looks like. We know what the data is that we need. We need to replicate that with every other platform. Your question is the timing.
Yeah.
The timing is depending on the platforms wanting to kind of get there, and understanding the power of the tool. So it's a business development effort. The technology and the know-how, we know how to do it on YouTube, so it'll take a little bit of time to understand how each platform is different, but it's really about when the platform is ready to work on it. So we're working with three platforms. The big one will be Meta, and since they just launched the measurement side, it is gonna take a little bit of time from a business development to kind of get there.
Okay, understood.
In other words, it's not 25.
Understood. Okay. Maybe putting a last question and a finer point on the social opportunity. You've recently announced partnerships with other social platforms. We had a number of those companies here yesterday. Pinterest and Reddit were both here yesterday. I spoke to the CEOs of both. Both of them talked about where they're trying to take their platforms. We believe, this is my opinion, that you're gonna play a role in that. How do you see those partnerships evolving?
Yeah
As you look out over the next couple of years?
Yeah. So they're part of the pool of social platforms that we wanna be integrated with, right? Like, our theory is, you wanna verify everywhere so that the advertiser uses our data wherever they're putting their dollars. They are part of the conversation we're having around integrations for pre-screen, pre-activation tools. They're in totality, they're much smaller than YouTube and Meta in terms of contribution to our business, but it's very important for us to be available everywhere an advertiser is verifying or sending their ads.
Got it. Understood. So it's really the ubiquity of having-
Yeah
- the whole landscape -
Yeah
so that you become, in many ways, like someone. You know, you have to be bought.
Correct.
Yeah.
Correct.
Understood. I wanna turn to Connected TV. How do you think about that opportunity over the medium and to long term? Obviously, there's some partnerships there. We think about things like Netflix and Amazon Prime Video.
Yeah.
And how do you think about some of the key products that have to be built to scale those efforts?
Yeah
around connected TV in the years ahead?
Yeah. So Connected TV, the opportunity for us on Connected TV lags the one on social, right? Just in terms of immediate revenue opportunity, social will be the one that will have a bigger impact for us in the medium term, short, medium term, and then CTV. The CTV opportunity is large. We already quoted in the second quarter, 55% growth of the impressions measured on, from CTV. We have the products. We have the products. The CTV environment is still very much tied to a supply that is constrained a little bit, so Amazon is an opportunity for that supply to open up.
Yeah.
Currently, advertisers are saying: Look, I'm just gonna grab what's available because the supply is kind of constrained.
Yeah.
Once you get more platforms to play in the space, Netflix and Amazon in particular, I think the supply side will open up, which will do a few things. First of all, it's gonna reduce CPMs, which we're seeing already.
Yep.
Then it creates a need for the platforms to differentiate their inventory, and that's when we come into play, right?
Yeah.
So rather than just buying Netflix, whatever Netflix has available, we'll be able to go in and get show-level data, which is not yet available. That's gonna be the unlock, right? The unlock and the power of our tool. We're working with NBCU to figure out what that product looks like. You asked that from a technology perspective-
Yeah
where we are. We're working on it. Once the platforms open up to show level data, information, then our tool will become really powerful for the advertisers, and we'll see more volume.
Okay, so the third building block I wanted to talk about, we talked about social, we talked about connected TV, maybe pivoting to retail media.
Mm-hmm.
You know, how do you and the team think about that opportunity long term? Which platforms and networks are scaling well currently, and how do you plan to increase adoption, penetration-
Yeah
-over time?
Retail media networks, you know, in the continuum of, you know, the opportunities. Retail media is happening now, right? Social is... You know, there's a lot to build, and then CTV is a bit further out. Retail media networks is a great opportunity for us. Basically, what it does, it allows us to work with an advertiser and then be able to verify not only on-site, but off-site, right? Once the user is going from, say, Amazon.com to all the other websites, this is where our data gets used. It's growing really fast, so this is on the supply side. We have deals with the platforms, and that deal handles on-site and off-site inventory.
Last quarter, we quoted on the Amazon side, 50%+ growth for it.
Yeah.
It's growing really fast. It's very interesting for us because it goes to advertisers that wouldn't otherwise work with us directly, right? So let's say Skullcandy is an advertiser that probably wouldn't have a relationship with us directly because the level of ad spend is too low. But through an off-site relationship on, say, Amazon, all of a sudden, our data is used for an advertiser like Skullcandy. So it's a very interesting opportunity to continue to grow with smaller clients. The relationship is with Amazon, which is really good, right?
Yeah.
So it's with the advertiser, but then we get all access to all these other advertisers.
Okay, understood on retail media. It was just over a year ago, you purchased Scibids.
Yep.
A year on, what are the key learnings from the integration and the product launches so far?
Yeah.
And how are you guys, as a team, thinking about the key unlocks on the path to where you want to take this business around $100 million of revenue looking out over the next five years?
Yeah, so quickly, Scibids is on the activation side of the business, and it allows to create a more dynamic way of bidding on inventory, so up until the Scibids product, clients could use our product to say, "Yes, bid on this. No, don't bid on this." All of a sudden, with Scibids, you're able to bring in new KPIs into that equation, saying, "Maybe I will bid on this because, you know, it's reaching a certain KPI that I have, and maybe I will bid on this because, you know, it's at the right CPM," as opposed to kind of having a yes, no, decision that we were doing before we had Scibids.
So a yes, no decision was great because it took a lot of bad stuff away, but it created a situation where the impression volume was so small that the CPM was getting too high. So Scibids allows you to be much more dynamic on what you're bidding. That means more inventory comes to us. For the advertiser, the power of Scibids is it creates an even more direct way of seeing that the ROI is there when you use our tools. So we bought this a year ago. We have three learnings as we've done it. We consciously decided to first focus on go-to-market, not the product integration. And for go-to-market, we have eight of our top 100 that are using it, in addition to the Scibids clients that were already using it.
We are using it as a tool to work with clients that don't necessarily use our measurement tool. So you can bring your own algorithm. So if you think about it, we can have a client that's not using our measurement or using somebody else for measurement, use the Scibids tool, and we have specific example of that happening, right? A client is using another provider for measurement, but they can still use the Scibids tool, which is an interesting way for us to start conversations with clients that we don't have on the measurement side. So it's been very, very good. We're very excited about it.
We called out a $15 million-$17 million opportunity impact in 2024, and in the second quarter call, we kind of said we're feeling very good about that range.
Yeah.
And we're feeling good about hitting the $100 million by 2028. It's a very strong, powerful product that no one else really has.
Okay. Oh, great. Probably the number one question we get away from the macro environment is just the broader competitive environment.
Yeah.
There was an interesting nuance in the digital advertising landscape with Oracle's decision to exit Moat. I think maybe a two-parter for me, just number one, what are you seeing in the competitive environment? When you go in to win business-
Yeah
... who are you competing with? What does that landscape look like? And how does Oracle's decision maybe change the competitive landscape and change some of the nuance around-
Yeah
... client conversations?
Yeah. So Oracle announced that they were closing Moat. Moat was a distant third player. They've been a distant third player for a while. Basically, you know, Oracle kind of bought the company but didn't develop the new products the way we've been doing. And so, it was always a third player. It's a platform that we've been taking clients from anyway. So this year we announced Pepsi, Uber, Ulta Beauty. Those were Moat clients that were coming over to us, right? So we've been gaining share from Moat for quite a while. The fact that Oracle shut down the business just accelerates the time to go after those clients, right? Like, everybody needs to have a new provider by October one.
So there is a very discrete three-month, you know, very competitive period to get the clients. And it is competitive, right? What we've learned is, the product was pretty basic. We knew this. So we are providing a basic product first, which will obviously have some impact on the overall price mix, right? Because they're coming in at a low price, and then we'll be able to upsell them to activation, Scibids, et cetera. So it's gonna take an eighteen-month period or so before we see the entire benefit of winning Moat clients. As I said, it's an October one deadline, so as we get to, you know, our Q3 and Q4 calls, you know, this is when we'll be able to announce, you know, our fair share of the wins.
Okay, understood. We'll look for that update-
Yeah
... in the coming quarters. The other flip side of the competitive environment, where it feels like there's been a tremendous amount of noise in the investment landscape this year is around pricing.
Yeah.
So why don't you help us better understand the state of pricing in the industry, and how to think about some of the levers around pricing as you think about the medium term for the business?
Yeah. So the way we think about price. Our strategy is to verify everywhere, and be able to just go wherever the advertiser is putting their dollars. We don't direct those dollars, right? And so if you think about that strategy, we want to grow with the volume that the advertisers are putting through the digital ad space. And price is almost an output of that strategy, which is, let's verify wherever they are, and then we keep a fixed price per product. But the price is gonna evolve if all of a sudden we have more international business, for example, where the CPMs are lower, and so the price of our product is lower. The price will change if all of a sudden we have more social, where we don't yet have an activation product that's attached to it, right?
So pricing, we're not taking down pricing just to take down pricing. We're not taking up pricing just to take up pricing. It's kind of an output of where the ads are going. The reason why there was some noise in the industry is because it is a two-player market, right? And so, there's always this concern that at some point it's gonna be a price war. We are in a large, growing space. It's very under-penetrated. Even our competitor showed increase in CPMs when they reported in the last quarter in their 10-Q. So it is this is not a price war, because there's so much to go after. Moat will have an impact on price, right? Because they're coming in with a low-price product.
But overall, it's pretty stable and, you know, it's a very rational market when it comes to price.
Okay, understood. Maybe turning to Authentic Brand Suitability, how do you view the runway for that as a continued growth driver going forward? Where are we in terms-
Yeah
... of adoption levels-
Yeah
... now across, you know-
Yeah
... mixture of advertiser types-
Yeah
... geos, things like that?
Yeah. So ABS has been a super product for us. It's on the activation side. It's a five-year-old product now. It's, you know, by itself, $130 million. The reason that it's so powerful and so successful is because it's the unique product in the market, and so advertisers were really focused on trying to get this product. It was a premium price product. It grew at extremely high rates. And, you know, we're getting to the point where out of the top 500, there's about 175 that are not using it. When we first launched the product, we thought the top 100 would use it, and that's it, because it was a premium price product. Turns out that many more clients are interested in it. So there's still 175 of the top 100 that need to use it.
And even within the clients that are using it, one of the reasons why it kept growing is because they kept using it on more, and more, and more of their inventory. You know, the path of growth for ABS is it's unlikely we'll get back to the same growth rates, right? It's now a product that has reached serious scale. The opportunities for us is to go after the other 175 that don't use it. There's some thinking around how do we create a version of the product that is priced appropriately for outside of the U.S.? Because it is very premium. It's on the activation side.
So we're trying to think about creating the opportunity where other inventory that's outside the US will be able to use it at a price that's commensurate to what the CPMs are in those markets. But the good news for us is that activation, which is where ABS was-
Yeah
... even in second quarter with ABS now not growing as fast, still grew 12%. There's other items in that line, including Scibids, which we talked about, including the pre-screen tool that we have on YouTube, that actually allowed us to grow double digits on that line without just being reliant on ABS. That's the new story for us, right?
Yeah.
We have many drivers of growth, even now that ABS is so large and not growing the same rates.
Okay, understood. Very clear. I wanna pivot to... We've talked a lot about what you're building-
Yeah
... product side, platform side, where the company's going over the medium and short term. Bring it back to the investment cadence. So maybe talk a little bit about the balance between investments and long-term growth, while also continuing to maintain cost discipline, think about margin expansion in the next couple of years. How are you thinking about striking that balance against your key priorities?
Yeah. So our strategy is, first of all, to keep an eye on revenue and see if this is a market where at some point you will have one company that becomes a de facto standard and currency, right? Because the way it works is this, this is a product that agencies understand. They might refer it to other companies. Some of the large companies will see who's using what, et cetera, et cetera. So we think there's a very large strategic benefit in becoming the larger player as fast as possible, and we've started to grow the gap, right? If you look at us versus our close competitor, you know, we're kind of the same size when we both went public a few years ago. We're now guiding to $120-plus million larger company than they are, and that's our strategy.
Can we become basically large enough that advertisers and agencies see us as a de facto standard and currency in the market? That means that we intend to continue to invest, as long as we see that gap continuing to grow.
Yeah.
We're investing at a 30% margin. We're able to do that. We've maintained 30% margin all the way through. The investments are around R&D. There are specific pockets where we continue to invest on commercial, for example, to launch the Scibids products, right, and explaining the Scibids product in the market. But really, the focus is on R&D, innovation, coming up with the next product, figuring out how to do social pre-screen, for example. With an eye on 30% margin, we frankly could decide to let the margins grow. It's not our strategy right now.
Right.
We've achieved quite a bit of synergies also on the gross margin. We're well over 80%, so it's a very, very profitable business model. We're choosing to invest at a 30% margin so that we can continue to grow that gap on the top line.
Okay, understood. Very clear on balance being struck there. Maybe building on top of that, one of the questions I like to sort of bring these conversations home with is capital allocation.
Yeah.
So you just talked about investing in growth. Obviously, other aspects are doing M&A.
Yeah.
You did Scibids ... ways in stimulating inorganic growth, potentially maybe returning capital-
Yeah.
to shareholders over the long term. What's the current state and priorities of your capital allocation policy?
So we haven't been public for very long, but and so we're now getting in the phase where we generate a lot of cash, right? We have over $300 million on the balance sheet right now. We've initiated this year's stock buyback, right, which is part of just figuring out the proper allocation of our cash and the proper capital allocation. If you think about the priorities we have is continue to invest for organic growth, as we just discussed, and that one might have a lag, right? We might be investing in a product that doesn't show results for a few quarters, and that's okay for us. Investing in the organic growth and scale is priority one. M&A is about finding opportunities that accelerate the product roadmap.
Mm-hmm
... or accelerates our geographic expansion. I think Scibids is a perfect example of what we're looking for, right? It enhances the product, it creates a new avenue to use the same data set that we have anyway, and it just accelerates the time for us to do it as opposed to building it. And then I think, you know, stock buyback, you know, we kind of peg that to the stock-based comp number that we have. I think that's the reasonable expectation that, you know, investors should have, which is we're kinda gonna peg it to that. It's gonna be repeatable, you know, at a regular cadence, and I think that creates a nice capital allocation for now.
Okay, understood. We only have a few minutes left, and we've been trying to end all these conversations on sort of a forward-looking set of questions. So maybe for you, in particular, what do you believe is the most misunderstood piece with respect to DoubleVerify when you look out over the next three to five years?
Mm.
Let's call it over the medium term.
Yeah.
As you're sitting here today, what's the theme or the surprise or the thing you find that investors maybe aren't focused on with respect to you?
Yeah
... or the digital ads landscape that maybe we'll be talking about in a year from now?
In a year.
Yeah.
I think-
That's my plug, that you'll be here a year from now.
Yes, I heard it. I heard it. What do you get when you get three times in a row? You get something?
You'll have to come back and see.
Um, so-
It was a bag this year.
That's right. So I think we've done a good job explaining the opportunities, right? There's plenty of pockets of opportunities, right?
Sure.
Social, there's an opportunity to replicate what we did on the open web in terms of activation to measurement. You know, CTV, people understand the unlock. Scibids, people understand the unlock as well. There is a transition that's happening right now that's away from a company where we were building on the open web, the measurement to activation connection, and now we need to do the same thing on social, and then we need to figure out CTV, and then we need to figure out retail media network. I don't think there's much. Everybody understands the opportunity. It's really gonna be about the cadence to get there. And so this year, we did start talking about a transition because it is a transition, right?
You're moving away from a fully developed measurement to activation dynamic on the open web, to building it on social and then figuring out on CTV. So really, the unknown is the timing of all these opportunities. If you're saying, if you're asking me, in five years, those opportunities will be in play, right?
Yeah.
It's just a transition to it and what really comes first, and that's a little bit of timing around business development, because we do rely on the platforms to either open up on social or giving us data on CTV. There's not much we can do there besides just continuing the business development conversation as the advertisers become aware of how good that would be for them, too, right? And then they can put pressure on the platforms themselves. So, it's really... It's a transition, but if you're asking me in five years, all of that will be in play. And the math on what that means for the company is pretty simple to figure out, right? So, we have a lot of growth drivers. We. This is a year where most questions started with what's happening with ABS, right?
Because that product was really very strong for us, to what are all the growth drivers and when are they coming to play? Which is a good conversation, right? It's a good transition, but it might take time. I think the thing that's gonna maybe surprise when we talk in a year, you know, AI is pretty disruptive. It's a positive for us because it allows us to do our job more efficiently and, you know, really finding synergies around COGS, but also around engineers. So it is a positive there.
It is a positive for us because it allows content creation at a level that's so customized that the advertisers, if they know they can target it and use brand safety and suitability tools that we have to kind of enhance the ROI, specifically to that medium with that content, that's very good, right?
Yeah.
So AI allows for a customization that allows for better performance for the advertisers. That's really great. So I think that will be something that will be interesting to see how disruptive it is. I mean, we were talking earlier today about ChatGPT and how that's even disrupting the search business.
Mm
... which we don't participate in right now, but that could also be very disruptive and create more volume for us to offer to verify.
Yeah.
So I think next year we might be sitting here saying, "Wow, all of a sudden, there's all this extra volume that we didn't have." Last year when we were here, where we were talking about short-form video content-
Yeah
... coming online, right?
Yep.
It just came online, and all of a sudden, there's more volume. I think that'll be something that we're talking about, where there's, "Oh, here's more volume for us to verify," which is a good thing.
Understood. I always appreciate the opportunity to have a conversation.
Thanks.
Please join me in thanking DoubleVerify for being part of the conference this year.
Thank you. All right. Thank you.