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Goldman Sachs Energy, CleanTech & Utilities Conference

Jan 6, 2026

Moderator

All right, wonderful. Thanks, everyone, for being here. We've got an all-star panel here to talk about the diversified shale E&P business model: Coterra, Devon, Ovintiv, and Northern Oil and Gas. Thank you all for being here in sunny Florida, and so much to talk about across the ecosystem. So I wanted to spend some time on the macro. Then each of you guys have had some important capital projects. I want to unpack that and then get to whatever's on your mind as well, and so one of the debates that we've heard around the conference is the idea of being pure play versus being diversified, and there were some at our special forum last night or even this morning who argued there's a lot of advantage to being concentrated in one basin.

Each of you have a slightly different business model where you have argued that there's advantage to having a portfolio. So maybe we start with you, Shane, and talk about the benefits of operating a diversified upstream portfolio. And how do you think what's needed to get the market to better appreciate operating in multiple basins?

Yeah, well, thank you. First of all, happy New Year, and everybody up here, and thank you for having us at the conference again this year. Look, it's a great question. It's one we think about quite a bit at the management level. It's one that we review and talk about with the board on a regular basis. But look, I would say, as I think about the diversified or even balanced business model, because again, we do strive to have balance between the two commodities as part of a diversified strategy. There's really probably three areas that I think about. I think there's a strategic element or benefit of being there, and that's the ability to allocate capital as markets change.

And from time to time, gas is high and oil's low, or gas is low and oil's high, and you've got the ability to pivot capital into the part of the inventory that still has good economics. And so there's a strategic element. I think there's also an operating element that's out there, and you can go through a long list of benefits of having multibasin and learnings and cross-pollination. And again, you can go through a long list, but two things I'll just highlight that I think are important in our portfolio. One is marketing. I would tell you five, six, seven, eight years ago, as we thought about gas in West Texas, we thought about flow assurance and making sure, particularly trying to make sure flaring was reduced, et cetera, but making sure we could produce the liquids molecules.

Whereas in the Northeast, we've had a team up there for a long time that's been focused on maximizing the value of the gas molecule, and they've really brought that approach into West Texas and New Mexico and done the same, so you've seen our portfolio begin to evolve and not just get more heavily involved in financial hedging on the one hand or takeaway capacity, which we've continued to add, and it's something that they've done well in the Northeast for a long time, but get into other things like power contracts where we can link our pricing to power. The same team that put together the power contracts we've had in the Northeast for a while has done that in a deal that we put together last year with some other partners in West Texas.

You see the LNG portfolio that the team has put together where we have contracts with each one of our business units in the various international markets. And so it's just been a real, real, real benefit to have sort of that balance and be able to transfer learnings in one area to another. And I want to get into D&C and other places. And then the third element, I'd say the financial elements of it. And as we've seen over the last, well, over 2023, 2024, the gas to oil ratio was probably in the 30-40 times the value of oil to the value of gas. And yet, as you look, as we got into the winter of 2025, it got down into the low double digits. And so it'll move around over time.

Having a balanced portfolio of gas and oil gives you a little bit more stability, or we think gives us more stability in our cash flows. We think that's important, particularly for folks and investors that are focused on return of capital. Because what does that do? It gives us great dividend coverage. We have a very healthy dividend. We went to that in early 2023. Even in an environment where oil feels soft, we've still got two, three, four times coverage on our dividend relative to our free cash flow. So it gives us a lot of confidence in the ability to not just maintain, but grow that and then use share repurchase as a bit of a flywheel over time.

Yeah. Thanks, Shane. I mean, Corey, your perspective from Ovintiv is also, this is something that we've talked about for the last decade. What is the optimal portfolio? And really, over the last five years, you have transformed, you and Brendan have transformed the business to core up to two key places, to the Montney and the Permian. Talk about that transformation. Why did you elect to shrink the portfolio to those two places? And one of the key catalysts that we'll be watching for this year is the monetization of the Mid-Con to really now get you into those two key basins. So talk about the portfolio transformation.

Yeah. And first of all, I mean, if anybody up here wants to buy our Anadarko, we can stay around later. If you look at our portfolio, I mean, some of the reason we like our Permian and Montney position a lot is the inventory that is remaining there. So you ask what's the right company strategy, whether you're a pure play, multibasin. I think understanding, and this is maybe a little bit, Shane, what you're talking about, what's your company really good at and how are we going to create value by having a differential advantage? So as we look at our operations in different basins, how can we pursue our strategy of developing cubes and getting good returns and do that for a long period of time? So we like the Montney because it's got that long runway. I mean, everybody knows the Permian.

Our advantage in the Montney is probably we've been there for longer than most companies. The good news is it's largely undeveloped. The bad news is that's the history of not having construction and egress built in the basin. And now that that's changing, it's really unlocked the opportunity to develop more of that resource, so don't think about it so much as a debate between, is it better to be in one or two or three or four, but as a company, what are we good at and how do we drive that to the bottom line and actually have a competitive advantage by being a good operator? A lot of the things that we do in the Permian, some of them came from the Montney.

One of the most interesting things we're doing up there is a lot of the automation around not just our D&C business, but our base business and bringing in the acquisition we did last year, and we'll do that again as we close NuVista. It allows us to operate remotely. It allows us to start to use automation and AI. And that's something that maybe is a little bit different structure than it exists in the Permian, but we'll absolutely start doing that in the Permian. And likewise, all the advances we've had in simul-frac and trimul-frac and continuous pumping, that pushes our Montney team to get better and to try that. And if you're only in one of those basins, you don't have that opportunity to look across and test yourself against the performance of other companies in the basin as well as your own operating team.

So I think there is definitely benefits to being in more than one if you can show that you've got an advantage in doing so.

Corey, on the Anadarko or the mid-con, can you just talk about where we stand in that process? That'll be instrumental in getting you to your $4 billion net debt target.

Yeah. So it's a little bit different than we've done historically. Usually, like most companies, we prefer not to set expectations ahead of time that we'll be selling something. I don't think it came as a surprise that we paired it with the announcement of the NuVista acquisition, but we just started that at that time of announcement. We've picked advisors. We've talked to numerous companies that might be potential buyers, and we're just in the early stages of getting all the data room prepared. Obviously, the macro backdrop means it's going to be potentially a challenging couple of weeks as people are more worried about the front part of the curve, but these are long-dated PDP assets. So it matters just as much what our long-term view of oil is as much as it is the next month or quarter or two quarters on the strip.

Yeah. Thanks, Corey. Nick, you just announced an important acquisition in the gas landscape in the Utica. Can you talk a little bit about how that came together and what do you want to drive out of that basin?

Sure. We are a little bit different than the rest of the folks here. We're a 100% non-operator. But increasingly over the last five years, we have been partnering with our operating partners to acquire assets. So taking an undivided stake, think of us as a passive partner, and then signing contemporaneous contracts to help develop those assets and exploit them over time. This transaction in particular was very complicated in the sense that you had a selling party that was actually two parties. It was both a public upstream company, a public midstream company that was affiliated with it, and it was also acquiring another private business of substantial scale with both of those entities. And we were partnering as a 49% partner with another public company.

What we have been doing as of late is we evaluate these properties, both non-operated and operated assets, on what we call an 80/80 basis, meaning we look at the asset as if we were going to buy 100% of it, and we spend that time. Now, that evaluation can be very different if Clay is operating it or if Coterra is operating it.

Which one's better?

That's another one.

That's what I would ask. I thought it was one of these.

Both.

Both.

Both.

You are both very good. Devon is one of our largest operators. But what I would tell you is that that underwriting case is going to be very different. The PDP will be the same because it's a producing asset, but the development case can be very different. So it's not plug and play. But we tend to hold out who we're going to pick as our quote-unquote dance partner because we obviously want to see if we can win the transaction. And in this case, obviously, the transaction in and of itself was going to be tied to whether or not Antero in and of itself was going to win the HG transaction. So when that happened, obviously, you had a situation where it came together very, very fast.

And for our partner in particular, which is a smaller, newer public company, our capital was incredibly important in order to facilitate this transaction. What I can tell you is that there's something very unique about this transaction, which is that we are buying the midstream and the upstream assets in this case. For the upstream company, even though they are affiliated, the upstream company has to pay the midstream company. And so its cost structure is very different than ours will be. So when you don't own the midstream and you're paying your midstream entity $4 plus for your water that costs $0.75, it really does change the cost structure of your upstream entity. So what was once a field that cost that operator, call it $3 in MCF to operate, now goes down to about $1.80 when it's fully integrated.

And so for that asset, it has meant that what once produced in a midstream system that has $500 million invested in it alone, that once produced about 600 million a day is down to around 150 million a day and yet has tons of running room. So we will be able to grow it almost triple the volumes over the next five years. And because of that midstream system that is built out already, there's a huge ability to grow both the midstream and the upstream footprint along the way. So for us, it's a huge both volume and free cash flow growth engine for us in the gas play. And again, that's not adding on to the fact that I think that we think there's some pretty interesting cost and performance upside along the way.

Clay, we'll round out this conversation about portfolio optimization with you. And you were remarking before, you said, "Hey, look, there's a lot of conversation about the long term." And I think that part of at this conference, and I think part of that is we're entering into a maturity phase for shale, whether it's peak or not. I think most of us are skeptical of the peak argument, but I think we're getting to a more mature, flatter profile. So what does Devon look like in 2030 to 2035? It's become a topic. And if to the extent we're in a period of cyclical weakness, how can the company position itself organically or inorganically to make sure that it's the best version of Devon when we get into next decade? Does that make sense?

Yeah. Well, thanks for the question, Neil. I mean, I think we are at our best in this industry during the toughest times. And so I look forward to what I think could be shaping up as really a choppy 2026. But I think clean balance sheets, good inventory, a team that's really honed and focused on the right thing. For us, our focus over the last year has been really on sustainable free cash flow. We've set out a $1 billion target by the end of this year to achieve an incremental $1 billion of sustainable free cash flow. We were well on our way, over 60% there, feel very confident in being able to achieve that. But the byproducts of that, I think, are really set us up very well for the future.

The byproducts are exceptionally good benchmarking, really leveraging all of these accomplishments via technology, really thinking about how do we not just run through the tape of this $1 billion and then make sure that it is sustainable that we hold on to it, but really think about how that sets us up for future actions. When we think five, 10, 15 years out, I typically skip through the five years and I'm out 10 to 15 because it kind of clarifies a little bit of our portfolio looks really strong through that kind of mid-decade period. It gives us a little bit of a cover that we're fine. We're still generating very significant free cash flow. Nothing to see here.

What I would tell you is, today and when the good times are going on, that's exactly when we need to be thinking about the much longer term beyond just for us, five basins, resource plays, focused on oil, domestic. If you rewind back 15 years ago, Devon looked entirely different. My wager would be Devon 15 years from now will look entirely different. So how do we elegantly make that transition, make sure that we're prepared, that we're opportunistic, both from an offensive and a defensive perspective, that we're prepared to be on the front foot of those opportunities that come our way?

Can you talk about? You've talked about concentric circles of competency. What are things that could be part of what that profile does? Offshore coming back again. We've talked about Fervo, for example, being an area of interesting growth in geothermal long-term. Where could you see Devon evolving to?

Yeah, certainly. We've had two big parallel missions over the last year. The first, we've been very transparent about talking to the organization and then talking to investors about as well, and that's the business optimization. That's the $1 billion sustainable free cash flow target. The parallel, which we've been a little bit quieter on just because most of the time our investors don't really have a lot of appetite for very long-term discussions. Some investors do, most investors don't, and I think we have to pay close attention to making sure that we're also passing kind of the everyone everyday sniff test.

When we think about that opportunity, when we think much longer term and the work that we've been doing, we've done a lot of soul searching on what's Devon's capabilities, what those opportunities are, where that Venn diagram overlaps, and then what could be kind of next steps for us. Devon has a long history. We've been around the globe and back, and I would think some of those things could come back into vogue. When I think about something, a bigger step, let's go pretty far extreme, West African exploration, deep water, probably not Devon's next logical next best step. You mentioned something like Fervo. That sounds very far afield from what we do today, geothermal. But when you think about it, it's exceptionally good geology work and geophysics work. It's ground floor leasing of land. It's drilling horizontal wells, completing horizontal wells, and then building surface facilities.

That kind of sounds familiar to what we do. Now, we don't market electrons today, but hey, we're smart enough to figure out how to partner, how to close that gap, and we think about those kinds of things. I think that really could be something that's interesting when you look further out kind of into the next decade. Meanwhile, we're exceptionally happy with the portfolio we have. We're really focused on achieving these near-term targets, and when I think about the most important things that we can do for value creation for our shareholders is deliver on that, control the controllable, make sure quarter after quarter we deliver, and therefore we earn the right to be thinking further and further out in the future in some of these more interesting and longer-term opportunities.

Okay. Last one for you, Clay. You are an AI evangelizer.

Bring it on, bro.

He had an intervention with me when he.

I honestly did.

When he found out that I didn't use it. He's going to get fired.

He's now fixed. He's fully converted.

I will be here next week.

So talk about how important that is to you, achieving your $1 billion free cash flow target and just how much confidence you have in your ability to exceed it? Yeah. You know, Neil, I've thought about it as kind of the analogy of you've got this organization and everybody wants to pull the same direction. Everybody wants to know where we're going. Everybody wants to know kind of tell me what winning looks like. And so we had to find the mountain that we were going to point to and say, "Okay, that's the mountain we're going to take." And in our case, sustainable free cash flow, it was just all-inclusive. Everyone in the organization can contribute in one way or another all the way through the value chain, right? The sustainability piece is so very important as well.

The question then becomes, "Okay, how do we take this mountain?", and the way that we've been able to equip people to be able to take this mountain is through technology. And so right now, in addition to the 60% plus that we've already accomplished, we have 80 value workstreams that are running in parallel. When a project gets to a point where we've kind of christened it as it's doable, it's material enough, and we want to track it, we put a template around it to make sure that we've got goals set around it. We hold people accountable. We achieve the goals as per plan, and then we actually see it flow all the way through the financial statements and get tracked all the way through the bottom line. Right now, we have 80 of those.

I can tell you every single one of those are enabled by AI. One way or another, they are enabled by AI. Internally, we talk about these three waves. Wave one is essentially making data more accessible. That's kind of how most of us use AI today. We had engineers that spent 75% of their time trying to find data, 25% analyze the data. We flip-flopped that. Now they're 25% finding the data, 75% analyzing the data. Therefore, they're 3x more effective. That's kind of wave one. Very common, right? Wave two is where you have integrate AI into the workflow. It's part of the team. It's part of the process. And we have teams that are working very much in that realm today. Now, that's not across the board, whereas wave one is pretty ubiquitous around the company.

Wave two is just really starting, and we've got two or three groups that are really breaking out. What's really interesting, and by year end, we will have full-fledged wave three opportunities. Wave three is where you take a whiteboard on a project. You say, "Look, if I were to start over on how we do this, this thing, whatever this is, at the center of it would be technology, and then we would build out the capabilities around that." That's true wave three. And I would tell you we have early projects on that. By year end, we'll have projects completely rebuilt around AI, ground floor as the technology center.

Awesome. Let's pivot over to the assets. And Corey, why don't we start with you? Last year was a very important year for your Montney business. You showcased more of what you're looking to do in the Montney, and you announced the acquisition of NuVista. So do you think the market is starting to better appreciate the upside from the Montney as an asset, and what are your key objectives in that place in this year?

Yeah. Again, I kind of talked about it in the opening comments. We love the rock and the Montney, and we get the chance to show that to our own internal teams, the subsurface and engineers that study the Permian. And they're always amazed at how amazing it actually still is and it's still there. "Where's this been hiding?" is kind of the common phrase we get from them. In combination, buying NuVista and last year closing on Paramount, we feel really good about the inventory duration we have there. We got 15-20 years on the oil side. So this is predominantly condensate, and it's sold in the market to predominantly oil sands producers as a diluent. And that price is pretty close to flat to WTI. So this is an environment where you got an attractive royalty structure. It's a Canadian dollar cost.

It's a low entry cost, and it's also receiving premium local pricing. So we think as people spend more time and study it, they're going to appreciate how good the resource is and how much is left. Some of what we talk about, and if you ask the question 10, 15 years out, there's lots left in the Montney to do. And part of the objective this year is to do kind of like we did last year and get after these synergies really quickly to demonstrate that that leading operation in the Montney is still going on. And we talked about $100 million of synergies annually out of just this acquisition. That's on top of what we already got out of the Paramount acreage acquisition last year. We got through that relatively quickly within a couple of quarters.

So that'll be the operating team focus in the very short term, and then bringing that into the portfolio and highlighting that. We've taken sell-side and buy-side up to the Montney a number of times just to showcase it, and I think seeing it and feeling it and getting to observe what's there, it's kind of like the first trip to the Permian that people get to look around and appreciate the landscape, and it's a good place to operate, and then when you get up to the Montney, you realize that it's actually just like forest and there's literally nothing around, so it's good to operate there. It's just a little bit different in terms of the history and the legacy you have on knowing how to get value out of it, so that's our focus this year for sure in the Montney.

Jane, let's talk about the Marcellus and also the Permian. But on the Marcellus, maybe you can address directly kind of the question in the room about there are some who want you to monetize your Marcellus position. And what are, in your mind, the pluses and minuses of doing so? And if there is a financial constraint that you want the market to know about, maybe you can share that. And then in the Permian, overall, you exited the year very strong, but it was a choppy middle with some of the water issues. And so talk about lessons learned and confidence you have around operational momentum in 2026.

Yeah, that's great. Starting with the Marcellus, and thank you for asking. Look, the Marcellus has been an excellent asset for us and an excellent fit for our business. It gives us a tremendous amount of free cash flow at a very low reinvestment rate, which has really benefited our growth in the Permian over the last three years plus going. We are very happy with the performance of that business. I think I look at it and say the Northeast Pennsylvania is top-tier rock. The Delaware is top-tier rock. We talked about the various synergies, whether they be strategic, operational, or financial. That's really the North Star by which we try to put together the portfolio is to own top-tier assets. The Marcellus certainly stands out in that regard.

So those would be a few of the things that I would point to in the Marcellus. If I pivot to the Permian and to the Delaware for a moment, we had challenges in Culberson in the second quarter. The team was able to quickly muster and get together and develop a plan that really substituted out some Harkey wells in the second half of the year for Upper Wolfcamp wells and essentially keep the entire year flat to where we had been guidance-wise as we went through an evaluation, a diagnosis, and a remediation of the Harkey. And again, I'll put it into three quick buckets. One, there's what was on the particular row that had the encroachment issues for us, the Windham Row. And there we were able to remediate through some cement squeeze jobs and end the crossflow of water coming from the upper injection zone.

Those are dewatering. We'll sort of see how that plays out. It's five net wells. So it's not a tremendous amount of the portfolio. As I look outside in the other row development, in the third quarter, we went ahead and completed six of the wells, Harkey wells that had already been drilled or were in flight. Those were performed in line to better than our expectations had previously been. Then outside of the general row development, we have a plan that's 25-30 Harkey wells a year outside of that. So we feel really, really good about the lessons learned from the experience in the Harkey. Frankly, the team's ability to recover from a bit of a hiccup in operations and still deliver what we'd originally promised to deliver to our shareholders in oil volumes for 2025.

Thank you, Shane. Nick, you've got a unique perspective of what's happening across the United States given that you're an investor in a number of these different assets. We're in a period of commodity softness. There's an argument to say that we go even lower. Are we at these break-even levels where some of these basins might shift into decline as we think about 2026?

Yeah. I mean, I don't want to sound sorry. I don't want to sound pessimistic or anything like that towards the asset base, but we see it all. We're in four basins, six distinct plays. We evaluate almost every M&A process that comes across the table every single year. We evaluate over 400 ground game deals a year. So we see the gamut. We own over a million gross acres. We've spent over $20 million on a Palantir-based system. So I put our data against anyone's in the country. What I would tell you is that this is a cyclical industry. I think I'm actually a little bit interested when I speak with investors. I spent 18 years as a buy-side investor, so I know how you guys think, and I spent a lot of time doing it.

I look at what's happened to the equities over the last year. What I've seen is oil prices have gone down, and the stocks have gone down, and so have the multiples, right? That's not typical, right? If you go back to 2024, right, gas prices went to $2. What happened with gas stocks was the multiples expanded. That's what happens at trough because everybody knows that the marginal cost of production for natural gas in this country is about $3.50. The marginal cost for production in the United States, in my opinion, and based on what we see, and we evaluate every AFE individually in our business, and we'll use the Williston Basin, which is our legacy basin, is about $70, maybe $65. Costs are not going down.

In fact, we're budgeting actually this year for inflation because now it may or may not happen. Maybe we'll see some deflation. We'll see. But the bulk of the cost savings we've seen in the U.S. over the last couple of years has been folks like these guys going faster. And they've been shaving days, and that's how they've been saving money. And the average well, we're going to Cube Development, so the average well is actually getting worse. It doesn't mean that the well itself is getting worse, but it means that we're not just cherry-picking and drilling the best zones, the Wolfcamp A or what have you. Now we're drilling a full, we're drilling the full cube, right? And so what that means is that the average well in the Permian will appear to you to be worse.

Certainly, as we drill longer laterals in the Williston, as an example, we get better wells, but they're also much longer laterals. That's why they're better wells. What I would tell you is that if you look at last year's 914 data, the US production is up about 600,000 or 700,000 barrels a day. The entirety of that is New Mexico and the Gulf of Mexico, sorry, Gulf of America, excuse me. Sorry, apologize. That is a handful of projects. I'm not an expert on the Gulf of Mexico, but that's a handful of projects as I understand from the majors offshore. New Mexico, which has been really the sole growth engine in the Permian, the Eagle Ford decline. The Bakken is largely in decline. The rest of the conventional basins in the US are in either flat or in decline.

I mean, California, as an example, is down over 50% over the last six years. And so what I would tell you is that this is a cyclical business. And what I find interesting is that the pessimism that happens, yeah, oil could go anywhere. And certainly, we are in a period of oversupply today. But the cure for low prices is low prices. And so if we have a period where oil prices go to $40, they could go anywhere. I mean, I've learned this the hard way in my career, which is that prices can go anywhere. They can go to $120. They can go to $0 or negative $37, I believe, which was the bottom. That was fun. But what I would tell you is that we are below the price in which it will keep U.S. production at its current levels.

Really low cost of capital, big public companies can sustain their volumes for a long time, but private companies can't. We have a good portion of private companies, and they're already cutting their capital, and so it might not happen today or tomorrow, but this is a cyclical business. And I believe strongly that we're at the bottom of the cycle. And I don't think the equity markets are prepared for that. And I don't think oil prices are there. So Venezuela, be damned, at the end of the day, 65% of every incremental barrel produced in the world for growth over the last 10 years has come from the United States. So you can crowd out those barrels, but you still need the price to be at a level that keeps U.S. production flat. 40% of every barrel produced in this country a year is drilled in this year.

And so it's going to need, at the end of the day, to be at a price that can sustain that. And on the data we see, it doesn't do it. And people are willing in our industry to drill a marginal barrel for a while, but they can only do that for so long.

Nick, your view of the marginal cost of supply, if it is in the United States, is?

$65-$70.

WTI.

I think it will rise over time. I don't see efficiencies growing. I think that inventory is certainly in shale. Look, this industry is incredible at innovation. So I don't want to dismiss anything that my operating partners are capable of doing. But I would say at this point, we have been hitting these fields like the Williston for 15 years. There is only a limited amount of white space, as they say.

Clay, do you have a different perspective? You may be more inframarginal, but your perspective, because you operate a number of these basins too.

When I rewind back from 2010 to 2020, we were getting incrementally better. You look at just the average well productivity for that decade, it was incredible. It just kept getting better and better as we figured out how to drill these wells, how to land the zones, understand the rock, understand the stimulation. And then somewhere around 2020 to current, we've kind of plateaued on productivity and actually have seen a rollover on a per well. And some of that's moving from core to tier one, two, three, however you describe those. And then it's also what Nick just talked about, some of this cube development where you're really making sure that you're grabbing all of the wells at one time. The interesting thing is we are still seeing an incremental capital efficiency because the operational technology has been able to offset that normal portfolio degradation.

So we are still seeing capital efficiency hold its own. Now, how long can that tug of war go? You've got a normal maturing of these portfolios, and then you've got a technological innovation operational kind of pulling the other way. And that's inevitably will roll. I would say I'm a little more optimistic as I look at the numbers close in. I think we're holding our own. We actually have continued to improve from 2023 to 2024, 2024 to 2025, high single digits improvement on well cost year over year, twice now. I don't know where it goes from here, but that's more than offset the productivity degradation or the maturing of those portfolios. Can't last forever, but I think so far we've done a really good job of holding our own in this kind of first half of the decade.

Second half of the decade continues to get harder. We believe our portfolio holds up really strong, continue to get smarter, apply more technology. I think we can hold our own on capital efficiency and maybe even improve.

Thank you, Clay. Thank you all. It's a great conversation. We appreciate investors taking the time as well. Thank you.

Yeah.

Thanks for coming.

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