Good day. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the First Hawaiian, Inc. Q1 2022 earnings conference call. This time all participants are on a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there'll be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one on your telephone. Please be advised that this call is being recorded. If you require any further assistance, please press star zero. I would now like to hand the conference over to your host today, Kevin Haseyama, Investor Relations Manager.
Thank you, Justin, and thank you everyone for joining us as we review our financial results for the first quarter of 2022. With me today are Bob Harrison, Chairman, President, and CEO, Ralph Mesick, Chief Risk Officer and Interim CFO. We have prepared a slide presentation that we'll refer to in our remarks today. The presentation is available for downloading and viewing on our website at fhb.com in the investor relations section. During today's call, we will be making forward-looking statements, so please refer to slide one for our safe harbor statement. We may also discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. The appendix to this presentation contains reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measurements to the most directly comparable GAAP measurements. Now I'll turn the call over to Bob.
Thank you, Kevin. Happy Earth Day, everyone. I'll start off by saying that the outlook for the Hawaii economy is improving as COVID becomes less disruptive. COVID-related restrictions for domestic travelers have ended, and the state's indoor mask mandate has been lifted. Our local economists and travel industry leaders are predicting very strong visitor arrivals this summer and as well as the return of Japanese visitors with the recent easing of travel restrictions. Turning to the first quarter, our results benefited from our asset-sensitive balance sheet and the balance sheet actions we took in the fourth quarter. Net interest margin expanded. Our liquidity position and capital levels remain strong, and our credit quality is excellent.
Turning to slide two, we had a nice quarter to start the year, reporting income of $57.7 million, earnings per share of $0.45, and a return on average tangible common equity of 15.08%. The board maintained the dividend at $0.26 for the quarter. We had some nice deposit growth in the quarter and saw improvement in our NIM. Asset quality was excellent, and we recorded a reserve release of $5.7 million. Risk-based capital levels were strong and improved over the quarter, and common equity tier one increased to 12.27%. As Ralph will expand on, the balance sheet is well positioned for a rising rate environment. Ralph.
Thanks, Bob. Turning to slide three, we ended the quarter with a liquid and asset-sensitive balance sheet and high levels of capital. Deposit inflows continued, but actions we took in the fourth quarter to deploy excess cash and retire FHLB borrowings contributed to an improvement in our net interest margin. The loan-to-deposit level was just under 58% quarter end. Higher rates led to AOCI adjustments in the security book, reducing the size of the balance sheet and GAAP equity reported. It is important to note that the AOCI adjustments do not impact income or cash flows, have no impact on regulatory capital ratios or our ability to distribute capital to shareholders. Turning to slide four. Period-end loans and leases were $12.9 billion, a decrease of $70 million from the end of Q4.
Excluding the impact of PPP loans, total loans increased about $40 million or 1.3% on an annualized basis. The growth in loans was driven by increases in CRE, residential, and home equity, but this production was offset by unanticipated repayments. In the quarter, we saw a few construction loans refinance prior to stabilization and more aggressive lending in the local marketplace, with competition relaxing not just pricing, but underwriting as well. Dealer flooring balances remained relatively stable, increasing about $9 million in the quarter. This increase was lower than expected as buyer demand and a lack of new vehicle production remain a factor in dealers building inventories. Higher rates will impact mortgage refinancing activities, but turnover should slow and support portfolio balances. At quarter-end, the loan pipeline was strong.
We started the first few weeks of the second quarter with good origination activity and growth in the portfolio. The outlook for 2022 is unchanged, with year-over-year growth in the mid- to high-single-digit range expected. The factors that account for the variability of the forecast include the degree of recovery we see in dealer flooring, decisions we might make to retain or sell mortgage production, and lastly, our risk appetite relative to changes in market lending practices. Turning to slide five. Deposits increased 2.1% or $454 million- $22.3 billion at quarter end. Consumer and commercial loan deposits drove that growth, increasing about $421 million. The cost of deposits fell by 1 basis point- 5 basis points. Despite greater uncertainty around deposit levels, we do retain adequate flexibility to fund loan demand under different scenarios.
Our expectation is that deposit betas will be like previous cycles, with some lag in repricing against loans. Turning to slide six. Net interest income was down $3.5 million from the prior quarter to $133.9 million. The decline was due to $6.8 million drop in PPP loan fees and interest. Excluding the PPP, fees and interest, net interest income increased by about $3.2 million. The net interest margin increased 4 basis points to 2.42%. As mentioned, this was in large part due to actions we took in the fourth quarter to reduce excess liquidity. The positive impacts of lower average cash balances and higher security yields were partially offset by lower PPP fees and interest income. Looking ahead, we are positioned to benefit from higher rates.
At the current level of interest rates, the net interest margin should increase a few basis points in Q2, seeing a 5 basis points-6 basis point benefit from the March rate hike, offsetting the decline in PPP fees and interest. You should also see a pickup coming from higher yields on securities rollover and new loan originations. Additional Fed rate increases will be additive to this, and we should see the impacts quickly as about $5 billion in loans reprice within 90 days. Turning to slide seven. Non-interest income was $41.4 million, essentially flat to the prior quarter. Card fees were down $1.4 million on a seasonal decline in activity, but the numbers are up year-over-year. We reported a net decline of roughly $3.3 million in BOLI due to volatility in the bond and equity markets.
Service charges and fees showed improvements over the prior quarter. Trust and investment fees were flat. Looking ahead, we would anticipate service charges and transaction-based fees to trend higher as economic activity picks up. Wealth fees should also improve as higher rates will allow us to receive fees on cash management accounts. Non-interest expense was $104 million in Q1, $4.7 million lower than the prior quarter. While we will see inflationary pressures, our outlook for the expenses is unchanged, and we project full-year growth of 6.5%-7% over 2021. Turning to slide eight. I'll make a few comments on credit. Asset quality remained very strong. Realized credit costs were down, and the level of NPAs, criticized assets, and past due loans were low.
In Q1, net charge-offs were $2.6 million or 8 basis points annualized. This is $3.6 million lower than Q4. The bank recorded a $5.7 million provision release for the quarter. NPA and 90-day past due loans remain low at 10 basis points, 1 basis point lower than the prior quarter. Criticized assets continued to decline, dropping from 1.6% of total loans in Q4 to 1.29% in Q1. Past due loans were flat compared to the prior quarter. Loans 30- 89 days past due remained at 23 basis points at the end of Q1. Moving to slide nine. You see a roll forward of the allowance for the quarter by disclosure segments. Economic outlook moderately improved in Q1, but we continue to consider downside risks that could impact credit losses.
These include such things as inflation, the reversal of Fed easing and higher interest rates, and impacts related to geopolitical instability and military conflicts. The allowance for credit loss decreased $7 million -$150.3 million. The level equates to 1.17 of all loans or 1.18% net of PPP loans. The decrease in ACL level is due to the release of the COVID-19 overlay on the residential portfolio and improved, but still conservative economic outlook and better asset quality. Our reserve for unfunded commitments decreased by $1.4 million to $29 million. Let me now turn the call back to Bob for any closing remarks.
Thanks, Ralph. To close, the U.S. economy continues to show strength, and Hawaii is expected to see good visitor numbers this summer. That'll be helped by the likely return of Japanese visitors. All of this will be positive for the local economy. While we're paying attention to a number of external factors that create some uncertainties, the bank is in a good position to deal with any contingencies that come up. Moreover, we should benefit as rates normalize and local business activity rebounds. Now I'll be happy to answer any questions.
Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you'll need to press star one on your telephone. To withdraw your question, press the pound key. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question is going to come from Ebrahim Poonawala from Bank of America. Your line is now open.
Hey, guys. Good morning.
Morning. Morning.
I guess you want to just go back to the commentary on loan growth. I get you still expect mid-single digits year-over-year growth. Talk to us a little. You mentioned competition is picking up, unanticipated repayments. Just give us a sense, Bob, in terms of what's happening in the market. Are there new entrants which are not local who've entered the market which has made it a little more tougher? Just is that causing you to lose more deals given what you mentioned around underwriting standards as well? Would love to get some color around the competitive landscape?
Sure, Ebrahim. This is Bob. Let me start, and then I'll ask Ralph if he has any comments. You know, first, as we talked about, the mid to high single digit loan growth is really gonna be initially driven by the mainland growth. We're seeing that as very robust. We had a relatively slow first quarter due to some payoffs, but we see a very robust pipeline there in a lot of different areas. Locally, the comments Ralph had made, or we are seeing people being more aggressive. You know, in the past, it has been here locally driven primarily by pricing, but now we're starting to see some relaxation of terms, and we're just gonna hold firm in that area and see how that plays out. On the dealer side, that's also a big swing for us.
You know, we're still watching that carefully. It moved up slightly over the quarter, but it's really hard to predict when, you know, global supply chains are gonna be able to keep up with the demand that's out there. Ralph, anything you'd like to add?
No, I would say, you know, there's a lot of liquidity in the local marketplace. You know, we are sort of, you know, I think seeing things that we typically see at the end of the cycle. You know, we'll just have to be, you know, disciplined and continue to look for opportunities.
Just on the dealer finance, like, are things getting better or did the war making serve as another setback? Just give us an update of where those balances are today versus pre-pandemic levels if you could?
Relative to pre-pandemic, Kevin, I think we're down over $600 million still. You know, dramatic. We ended that quarter at $225 million, I believe, right about. You know, we're down dramatically from pre-pandemic. A number of factors. Demand is up-
236.
236, yeah, was where we ended the quarter of all of our dealer floor balances. Demand is clearly up. People have a good amount of cash, whether, you know, through money they saved in COVID or government programs. Car buying is a hot item right now. It's just keeping up with that demand has been the challenge for the manufacturers. It's been very good for the dealer community from a credit perspective, but, you know, they're having trouble getting the inventory they would like.
Got it. Just one last, if I may, around Ralph. In terms of the outlook for deposit growth, how are you seeing that play out in light of the Fed actions that we expect? Do you expect net deposit outflows? Just your thought process on deposit betas. Would appreciate any color.
Yeah, you know, we don't have a very specific view in terms of what would happen on deposits. We did see, you know, pretty good inflows at the end of the quarter. You know, we're prepared for, you know, just a number of different scenarios, including the scenario where we start to see deposit balances run off. In terms of repricing, I think, you know, we continue to think that we'll look very similar to the last rate cycle, where we may be able to sort of, you know, avoid any kind of, you know, significant repricing for the first couple of hikes. I guess a lot of that's gonna depend on, you know, how quickly the Fed hikes as well, right?
Got it. Thanks for taking my questions.
Thank you. Our next question comes from Steven Alexopoulos from JP Morgan. Your line is now open.
Hi, everyone.
Hey, Steve.
Hi, Steve.
I wanted to start out on the C&I loan growth. You know, when we look at other regional banks that have a balance sheet composition very similar to you guys, they're reporting very strong C&I loan growth, talking about line utilization improving. You know, on slide four, this decline in C&I ex-PPP is standing out like a sore thumb. Can you talk through why you're not also seeing a rebound this quarter in C&I?
Well, let me start. Steve this is Bob. We haven't seen the line usage go up yet. We're still seeing really strong liquidity amongst our customers, and so we really haven't seen the line usage go up. Also in that is, you know, our dealer floor plan is in that C&I number. So that's another reason why we haven't seen it really move. Ralph, any comments you'd like to add?
No, no. I mean, you know, it's just an area where I think, you know, the local economy is gonna be a little bit slower, you know, than what you're seeing in the mainland.
Okay. Yeah, 'cause dealer helped this quarter, right? It wasn't a drag.
Right.
Okay. Where you are getting growth, right, has been resi mortgage and home equity. Now with mortgage rates moving up, you know, what's the outlook there? Do you expect to see similar growth? When we think about the full year, how should we think about what's gonna drive loan growth overall?
Yeah. For loan growth, I think what we're gonna see primarily is in the CRE and to a lesser extent the residential. We're seeing really strong CRE activity. The residential home equity is gonna slow down, obviously, with the refinance. That's gonna slow down dramatically. We are seeing new home buying, so between residential and then we've seen a pretty strong first quarter in origination from home equity that we're kind of laying the process of closing out all those. It'll happen in the second quarter. It's people are moving out of refinancing their home and taking out equity and really moving into the home equity market. We'll see more of that build in the second half of the year.
Okay. Bob, on that construction line, I mean, optically, it just looks like loans are flipping from construction to term CRE. Do you expect that drag to persist throughout the year, like strong commercial real estate, but on the other side of it, construction balances just trend lower?
Yeah.
Go ahead, Ralph.
Steve, this is Ralph. I think the nature of that the construction book, it's always gonna be somewhat of a, you know, a book set term. I think on the larger deals, institutional, you know, type real estate, you know, we do anticipate sort of a mini-perm component, but we haven't been seeing that as much. I think what we're seeing in that portfolio is just more term, which is essentially sort of means, you know, we're really putting a lot more effort into putting new loans on the books to sort of like balance that off.
Okay.
Yeah, you just have seen no stabilization period, essentially. The institutional lenders are coming in right at the end of construction and taking down the
Mm-hmm. Okay. That's helpful. Final question. When we balance in the asset sensitivity with the expense guidance, do you guys think you'll be able to deliver positive operating leverage this year? Thanks.
Yeah, I think what we're looking at right now is even with some pressure on expense, I think we're gonna get a really good, you know, lift from the rate outlook, you know, in terms of the impact to the bank. Relative to where we were at the end of the fourth quarter, I think we're looking at probably a, you know, a bit of a lift this quarter. I mean, this year rather.
Yeah. The efficiency ratio, you think trends down through the year? Is that the thought?
Well, I'd be reluctant to sort of necessarily say that, but like I said, I think we're gonna grow. We're gonna do better than what we had anticipated at the end of Q4, just given the direction of rates and the increases that we're looking at today relative to what we had budgeted.
Got it. Okay. Thanks for taking my questions.
Thank you. Our next question comes from David Feaster from Raymond James. Your line is now open.
Hey. Good morning, everybody.
morning to you, David.
Just wanted to touch on some of the puts and takes on the fee income line. You know, BOLI's obviously under pressure from the market movements like you noted. Some seasonality on card fees. Other income was also a bit weaker. Just curious on your thoughts on these items and whether you could quantify the impacts to kind of get a good baseline going forward. Just following up on your commentary on retaining versus selling mortgage production. Just curious how you are thinking about that as well as we look forward.
Yeah. Steve, I mean, this is Ralph. You know, when we're thinking about the BOLI, you know, that was a big impact this quarter. I think typically we were seeing something between $3 million and $4 million in BOLI income. Again, I would note that, on the BOLI side, you know, that is an asset that is basically sort of hedging a liability. So to a certain extent, you have a, you know, offset when you see changes in that account. But if we start with the $41 million, and I think we had guided you to, like, $48 million is kind of a run rate. You know, you add back $3 million there, so that's about $4 million.
You know, we're looking at probably $2 million in increase relative to card and debit fees, I think, as we go through the year. When we look at the wealth line, as interest rates start to increase, you know, we're gonna start to be able to collect fees on cash management accounts, which we hadn't been able to do, you know, during the past few years given the level of rates. That's gonna be a pretty nice lift for us. Then when we look at that business as well, the wealth business, you know, we had moved from a commission-based model to an AUM model. I think even to the extent that we see some reductions there on the equity side, I think we're gonna see overall a net lift there.
We're still pretty confident that we could get to that number. And again, I think when we look at any kind of service charge or activity related sort of, you know, fee, I think we're gonna see some lift as we go through the year and the economy here really starts to pick up. A lot of demand, I think, for people to come in, come into the state, and I think we're gonna have some, you know, a very strong summer.
Okay.
This is Bob. You also asked about residential production, I believe.
Yep.
You know, we're still retaining most all of that. It's something we're looking at. Seeing a little bit of a mixed change, more people are coming in for our arms, which we would like to retain versus 30-year fixed. We haven't made any final decisions on that yet, but we're certainly looking at it closely.
Okay. Maybe just touching on credit more broadly. You know, asset quality remains strong. You've got a conservative approach to credit, which is hearing your commentary. Excuse me. It sounds like you're still a bit cautious on the economy and just in light of some of the competitive dynamics on more aggressive terms. Just curious, how willing are you to compete on term in order to drive growth? Just on the overall broader credit front, you know, what keeps you cautious? You know, what keeps you up at night? What are you watching closely as you're managing credit? Just curious. Any thoughts on that?
Sure. No, great question. You know, as we look at it, we don't feel we're overly cautious on credit. We have a very strong credit quality, and we're really looking for good opportunities that we can earn a return on capital on. If the pricing doesn't bear the risk out there, we're disciplined enough to hold off a bit and look in other areas. We're seeing very strong opportunities that are well structured and well-priced in the mainland right now, and we think that that will continue to evolve and come over here at some point.
You have a little bit of irrationality out there at the moment, but that never lasts very long. We're just going to be patient and make sure that when we're putting our capital to work, that we're going to get a fair return for that.
Okay. Then maybe just touching on capital here too, you know, in light of the AOCI impact on the AFS book, obviously regulatory capital is very strong and your prepared marks talked about this really has no impact on your ability to distribute capital. You know, I'm just curious how you think about the buyback here in light of the decline in the TCE ratio. Do you still expect to remain active? Just any thoughts on overall capital.
Yeah, no, we, you know, not that we don't pay attention to the TCE ratio, but we're really focused on common equity tier one. The reason we didn't repurchase any stock in the first quarter, as we talked about a little bit on the year-end call, was we see a pretty robust outlook for growth in the loan book, and we want to make sure that we have the capital to be able to support that growth before we go after the share repurchase. Just an interesting point, we did a look back and since we went public, we've returned 82% of our earnings to shareholders, either about 2/3 of it in dividends and a third in share repurchase. We're strong believers in capital return, and we're looking to do that.
We just want to position ourselves not to be restricted on our ability to grow the loan book.
Understood. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next question comes from Andrew Liesch from Piper Sandler. Your line is now open.
Hi, good morning, everyone.
Good morning.
Just curious if you can provide a quick update on the state of the core conversion. Is that still on track? Any sort of news you can share there would be great.
Yeah, no, great question. That's, quite frankly, taking a lot of our time. Glad you asked. You know, that's still on track for this quarter. We've already sent out the notices to our customers, and that'll be happening next month. We're very excited about it.
Great. Good. Then, sorry if I missed it, but the other non-interest income line down to about $900,000 from, I think it was close to, well, I think there's some one-time items in the fourth quarter. Curious where that line should be trending. It just seems like that was undersized relative to other quarters. Is that where mortgage gains are? I'm just curious what drove that number?
Yeah. Andrew, this is Ralph. There was probably about $1.7 million, I think, in a delta relative to, you know, mortgage income. That was, I think, a pretty big driver there. We saw a little bit less in swap fee income than we would have anticipated this quarter. That was probably a little bit related to the timing of a few deals that got pushed into the second quarter. I think that's probably primarily the delta on that line item.
Got it. You have covered all the other questions I had. I'll step back. Thanks.
Thanks.
Thank you.
Our next question comes from Kelly Motta from KBW. Your line is now open.
Hi. Good morning. Thanks for the question.
Morning.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but just circling back to loan growth, your guidance implies an acceleration from here. With the mid to high single digits, how much of where you fall into that is related to dealer floor plan? And if dealer floor plan doesn't materialize the way you hope, do you still think that other areas can get you to at least the low end of that guidance for the year?
Sure. No, great question, Kelly. We're still feeling that on that guidance. The low end is without a strong recovery in dealer floor plan. The high end is really if dealer floor plan comes back more strongly than you know, at least today it looks like. It's really hard to predict where that's going to land. The bottom end of the range is essentially without the dealer floor plan coming back.
Got it. That's helpful. Then just on the mortgage outlook, obviously refi is slowing, but I was hoping you could just provide a bit more color and detail on the purchase market and resi mortgage, trends and demand on Hawaii, and what kind of gives you confidence in the outlook of those continuing to grow? Thanks.
Yeah, no, like many markets, certainly here on the West Coast, there's just very strong demand for housing. Things that are coming on market are selling very quickly at generally higher prices than before. Everybody gets caught up in the headlines, you know, neighbor island, large, waterfront properties. Just broadly within, you know, the markets here in Hawaii, there's still very strong demand at essentially every price point for residential. While we won't see the same, refinance activity, anything that comes on market, you're seeing a good competition for that. That'll be coming on during the year. You know, the large projects we've talked about in the past, Ho'opili and Koa Ridge, talking to those developers, they're accelerating their plans because it's such a strong market.
as soon as they can get the houses completed, given all the, you know, durations with supply chains, they're getting them to market because there is a very strong demand for pretty much anything in residential or condos right now.
Got it. Thanks so much, Bob. That's really helpful. Just one last nitpicky question. I think you gave it, but I didn't catch it. On the BOLI income, is about $3 million the right run rate on a go-forward basis, kind of similar to last quarter?
Yeah, Kelly, that would be I think. You know, if things stabilize, that would probably be the number. That's sort of where we would see, you know, BOLI coming in. Again, just,
Got it.
Yeah.
Thank you. I'll step back.
Thank you. Our next question comes from Jared Shaw from Wells Fargo Securities. Your line is now open.
Hey, everybody.
Morning.
Thanks a lot. Yeah, I guess first on the net interest margin, you talked about the 5 basis points-6 basis point benefit from this rate hike. Should we expect, you know, that that's sort of the sensitivity as we go forward? Or, how should we be thinking about sort of future rate hikes through the course of this year? Is that the similar magnitude?
Yes, yes. Jared, this is Ralph. I would say that the 5-6 kind of gives you kind of an indication of what happened this last time so that. You know, I mean, there are things that could sort of influence that depending on, you know, what happens with, you know, on the deposit side. I think that's a pretty good number. Then, you know, as we mentioned, we have about $5 billion that's, you know, floating rate that will reprice, you know, with a hike. So that's probably another delta that you can take a look at there. I think in general, as we have sort of securities rolloff, you know, we're seeing better yields.
On the new loan origination activity, you know, fixed rate type lending, you know, that as well, we would see some pick up there as well.
Okay, thanks. On the securities book, can you give us an update on what the cash flow is looking like, sort of, I guess, monthly there, and what securities purchases were in the quarter and where you're buying today?
Yeah, you know, I don't know that I have the specific number on the securities purchases, in terms of, you know, the top of my head. You know, I think we're still seeing around $100 million-$125 million in monthly runoff. Then let's see, looking at the securities, new production came on at about 211 basis points. That compares to, I think, you know, last quarter was around 167 basis points. Pretty nice lift there.
Okay.
Sorry, Jared, this is Bob. Relative to the portfolio, they've just done a very good job structuring it. We haven't seen, as you saw on the slides, any extension. It's really behaving exactly as we had hoped and same duration and same steady cash flows coming off of it.
Okay, great. Thanks. Just finally on the loan side, was all of the residential growth from your own origination, or was some of that purchased? On the CRE sides, what portion was shared national credit or participation?
I think, you know, with regard to, I don't have the numbers relative to wholesale versus retail production on the CRE side. I would say it's still pretty much a balance between the deals that we're purchasing on the mainland and then activity that we're seeing here. Again, we had, you know, I should mention that we did have, you know, some pretty large pay downs this quarter in the local market, which kind of impacted the growth in Hawaii-based CRE.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you. Again, if you would like to ask a question, that is star one. Our next question comes from Laurie Hunsicker from Compass Point. Your line is now open.
Great. Hi. Thanks. Good morning.
Morning.
Just going back to where Jared was chatting on rates. I just wanna make sure that I have this right. The PPP in the quarter, I'm just backing into this, PPP forgiveness gains were about $2.5 million. Is that correct?
Yes.
Okay. That leaves you about $2.5 million or so remaining in unamortized fees, or is there a better number on that?
No, it's about $2.1 million, I think, in unamortized fees.
$2.1 million. Okay, great. Then you had made comments that the NIM for 2Q might be 3 basis points higher just because of the offset with the PPP. The PPP probably is gonna come in close to the current quarter. I just wanna make sure that I heard that right. Is there something else that is pulling you off of what we would otherwise see a 6 basis point up? Or how should we be thinking about that?
Yeah, Lori, this is Bob. Maybe I'll start and hand it off to Ralph. What we're seeing is the bulk of the PPP has been done, and now it's really starting to slow down on the forgiveness. The $100 million that's left relatively, you know, roughly on balances, we expect that to be a slower forgiveness and might even turn, and so forth. We're not expecting to see the same level of forgiveness we saw in Q1.
Got it. Okay. Most of that $2.1 million bleeds over the full year. You're not gonna expect to see a lot of that necessarily next quarter.
It's gonna be much slower.
Okay.
It's not gonna be the $3.4 million we saw in this quarter.
Got it. Okay. Just at very high level on asset sensitivity, can you give us a refresh on where you are looking at sort of an up 100 basis point shock? I mean, you're incredibly asset sensitive as of December 31st. You were a positive 11.8%, and we all know your deposit base is absolutely gorgeous going back to pre-pandemic, right? Not just where we are currently. Can you help us think about that? Because it seems to me like the 5 basis points-6 basis point round number guide for every 25 basis points might be a little light or maybe I've just extrapolated that wrong.
Yeah. You know, again, Laurie, this is Ralph. You know, the models are, you know, really more for risk management purposes. I think when you look at the 100 basis point, last quarter was about 11.8. This quarter, about 9.8, so about 200 basis points lower.
9.8%. Okay, great. Okay. Did I extrapolate that right from your comments? You're roughly expecting 5 basis points-6 basis points on margin for every 25 basis point hike.
No, I don't think we gave any guidance.
That's what we did this last quarter.
Sure would happen.
Yeah. That's what we did this last quarter, Laurie, and we think that's representative of the hike. You know, over time, there will be some pressure on deposit rates, obviously.
Sure. Okay. That's super helpful. Okay. Just to go, I think Kelly and Andrew both were hitting on non-interest income. Just wanted to go back. What is your exact swap income number for this quarter, and what was it last?
Let's see.
Maybe while you're checking that, just very high level. Your other non-interest income line has been running, you know, $3.3 million-$3.5 million or so per quarter. It was only $900,000 obviously this quarter. I mean, does that normalize back to that same level or swap fees are under pressure, we're gonna see that track closer to $2 million? I mean, how should we be thinking about that? There's a lot of things in that number I guess that we aren't privy to. I know the fourth quarter had your $6 million Visa loss. Even netting that out, that was, you know, three-point something, $3.2 million. Do we see a return to that, or how should we be thinking about that?
Yeah, no, coming back to that. The swap fee income this quarter was about $962,000. Typically we would probably hope to see maybe about, you know, between $1 million and $1.5 million and much more if we have, you know, kind of a larger deal. It's a little bit of a lumpy, you know, item.
Okay.
We're about half a million in Q4. I think you know as far as the number is concerned you know can we get back up to the other line item? We think we can, but really what we look at across a lot of the different line items, I think we're feeling pretty good about the transaction-related fees. We think that the trust income is gonna hold up. Actually, if we get back to you know kind of more normalized levels on you know our cash management accounts, that could add like another $4 million in fee income.
Another $4 million annually?
Yeah. An annual number. Yeah.
Okay. That's great. Okay. Very helpful. Can you just give us some color around overdraft and NSF fees, how you're thinking about that going forward? Just maybe even what was that number this quarter? You know, is there gonna be any sort of consumer-friendly relief and any sort of impact on your fee income with that?
Yeah. Laurie, this is Bob. That's something we're certainly looking at. We don't break out the specific numbers separately, but that's something we're certainly looking at. Candidly, as we're in the middle of a core conversion, we're not looking to redesign products at this point in time. We really need to get through that. That's very much on our minds and really looking to see how that plays out both nationally and locally. We think it's a service that many of our customers use and appreciate, and it's just an interesting time with the regulatory approach to it right now. We're looking at it, and we'll just have to come back later after we make some decisions, and we'll share that a different time.
Okay. Just last question, just quickly, if you could comment a little bit on your unsecured consumer book. It looks like, just getting this off your press release, if I'm looking at the number that's left 619 and unsecured consumer has become obviously such a hot button here. Looks like it's about $113 million bucket. Three-quarters of your charge-offs now are coming from consumer. I'm assuming most of it is from that book. Can you help us think a little bit about your approach to that going forward? I mean, certainly your credit is very, very pristine. You know, how are you thinking about unsecured consumer? Do you have any concerns there? Is that in fact where your charge-offs are coming from or any color you can provide on that? Thanks.
Yeah, you know, this is Ralph, Laurie. You know, we're still at a pretty low level relative to charge-offs. That is a small book that was a book that in the past we had maybe a more elevated levels of charge-offs. That's probably a book also that we hold you know a higher level of reserve. I think you know in the last couple of years we've been probably more I think disciplined around underwriting in that book because of COVID. We're not really you know expecting to have you know outsized losses in the book. I think on the dealer portfolio you know it continues to perform really well. I mean the past dues are you know very light.
To the extent that you take back a car, you know, you're really recovering a lot of the your charge, so.
Yeah. To clarify, I think you mean indirect portfolio.
Indirect.
Not specifically dealer to dealer floor plan. Yeah, the experience on that's been excellent. To add to Ralph's comments on the consumer, you know, that's something we looked at several years ago, made some changes. We're seeing better performance, but it's a higher risk portfolio. Relatively small for us, but a higher risk portfolio.
Great. Thanks for taking my questions.
Thank you. I'm showing no further questions. I would now like to turn the call back over to Kevin Haseyama for closing remarks.
Thanks, Justin. We appreciate your interest in First Hawaiian, and please feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions. Thanks again for joining us, and have a good weekend.
This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.