They said when the music stops, so.
Great. Ready to go? Okay. Start of the conference, we're gonna end the conference, and I'm still Steve Tusa, still at J.P. Morgan, covering electrical equipment and multi-industry. And we're very happy to have here, outgoing CEO, Jim Lico, and incoming CEO of the new Precision Technologies business, Tami Newcomb. Guys, thanks, so much for joining us here.
Great to be here.
Obviously, Fortive had some big news two weeks ago, maybe-
Yeah
... a week and a half ago.
Two weeks ago this afternoon.
On that they're going to split the company to a degree, and Precision Technologies will be the NewCo, and RemainCo Fortive will be their main company. And so we're gonna touch on that for a sec. But before that, let's just talk about what you're seeing throughout the world here on a macro basis. You have a bunch of different businesses that are exposed to-
Yeah
... many different trends, but a good global footprint. So maybe last stop here before a quiet period for all these companies that I cover. So you're gonna be kind of the last voice. So what do you see out there on the macro?
You know, I think, well, as part of our announcement, I can talk about that in a second. We obviously affirmed our guidance for both the quarter and the full year. So I would say that probably stands to reason that that's steady as she goes. You know, there's always puts and takes, and September's always a big month to sort of finalize all those puts and takes. But I think what it says is a little bit more of the same. I think there was some recognition in things like the PMI continuing, but I think that we'd already seen some of that in our guide and that kind of thing, so I don't think that. That doesn't represent a change.
What that really means, I think, when we think about it, you know, places like healthcare remain really good. Where we have our recurring revenue businesses, those are sort of more of the same. Tami can certainly give you some color on what she's seen on the PT side of her responsibilities, but I think what we see today is, you know, if I think geographically, North America's gonna be our best market. That's in part because, you know, that's where our software businesses are, which tend to be higher growth. It's where more of our recurring revenue business is, so. But I would say North America tends to be pretty good.
Europe, tough, particularly on the more industrial, more industrial automation, and maybe the broader part of Europe is just more consistent with some of the things we've articulated. And then I think Asia, high growth markets in general, pretty decent, but China's still tough. And, you know, we've talked, Steve, obviously, that we thought maybe back in March, April, that some of the measures that China put in which have historically made demand you know, improved demand over relatively quickly, we haven't demonstrated that. So those were all embedded in affirming the guide, but those are pretty good views. I think the other thing is inventory's generally at channel partners in pretty good shape. So I think they're gonna be more a function of demand at this point than they are excess inventory levels.
And when you think about kind of reaffirming the guidance, is that really across the board on when it comes to sales, EPS? Is it... Some of these companies more recently have said, "You know, you come in, EPS is good, margins are good, but sales may be a little bit weaker given the tough volume environment." Anything on those metrics at all that's worth noting?
No, I think, you know, some of the stuff that we waited for in the second quarter got pushed into the third that we talked about. We've seen that business get transacted, so, assuming we can get, you know, next few weeks strong, I would anticipate all those metrics to be good.
Okay. And then as far as the, just the PT side in particular, Tektronix, PacSci, the sensing businesses, maybe just what are you seeing there more specifically?
You know, we talked about it earlier today. After a 2022 and 2023 of double-digit growth, we're seeing this year a negative low single-digit growth. The change here, as we've come through the year, is when we get to Q3, customer demand or orders will turn positive for PT, and specifically Tektronix. We started to see some of that turn positive for the sensing companies last quarter. And we're seeing pretty close to what Jim talked about in some of the more. The technology companies, we play into a lot of the large technology and semiconductor companies. We've started to see some green shoots there and some orders start to come back around. The inventory levels are really good in our channel.
The European business is still a little bit soft in the industrial space, and what hasn't come back yet is some of the modernization that China talked about, the money flowing down to modernize equipment. We really haven't seen any of that get to the end customers yet.
And I guess when we think about the second half of the year, any of your customers mentioning a couple months ago we were all worried about the election, what kind of impact that would have, other than, you know, talking politics, any customers which we all talk about, any customers mentioning the election as an impact in their ordering?
I think it just has to-
Keeping an eye on that.
We're keeping an eye. I think it's embedded in some of the uncertainty that we've talked about, just in general, in terms of investment. You know, as over the last, you know, in the second quarter, we've talked a little bit about things getting delayed a little bit. I think some of it's just embedded in the uncertainty and people deciding to sort of wait around, but no one's using the election as a reason. I think this just has to do with maybe it's the global macro uncertainty, and you would throw the election into maybe that's part of the story.
Right.
The other thing we sort of missed is, you know, when we look at the businesses from an orders perspective, we are seeing order growth in the second half, so that was embedded in our guide, and we still continue to believe we'll see orders growth in PT.
In PT.
In PT-
Yeah
... that, you know, we said we would see that. We are seeing that, so.
Right. And so those orders, though, I think there's a bit of a lag time to those, or is that, you know, when does that translate into sales for PT?
Yeah, specifically for PT, it'll be three quarters out-
Okay
... that you'll start to see sales turn positive.
Got it. Okay.
Both based on the increased customer demand and orders, and we've got soft comps to build on.
Got it. Before stepping back to the businesses, let's talk about the news of the day.
Yeah.
But the portfolio moves. In general, what drove the decision on timing, you know, from a timing perspective here, and how do you want people to think about this move, and how we evaluate it for the next 18 months?
I mean, I would think we really tried to. You know, our typical strategic and portfolio assessment process really is the starting point of this decision several months ago. It's what we do annually. It's in preparation for some strategic review that we have with the board. And, you know, what really why now is, that work has been deep for years. And one of the things we saw, Steve, was, you know, when we compare some of the thoughts from a year ago, we saw, you know, we've made PT much more durable, but it still is tied and it's a great business tied to set of businesses, tied to some great technology shifts in the world that are gonna make the world a better place. However, those shifts have investment cycles to them.
And so that cyclicality of PT was, in some respects, muting a lot of the durability that we've been building into Fortive, and we've done a lot of M&A to make that happen. And I think as we did the investigation, we started to see that not only was that from a financial perspective, but also the fact that how we build these businesses long-term, both organically and inorganically, was gonna be different. And we really felt that people start to ask, "What am I underwriting when I'm underwriting Fortive?" And, well, the spin really leads to a more definitive answer to that question for both businesses. So we're really confident that the spin unlocks value short-term and long-term.
We think the comps for the two businesses ultimately are much higher than what we're trading at today, so we unlock a lot of the good work we've done. As you know, our financial performance over the last five years has been outstanding. When you look at EPS growth, the compounding at 14%, or free cash flow at 17%, as an example, plus our growth rate organically has been good, so but we haven't necessarily seen the stock price move in that level of compounding, so we unlock some value short-term, but more strategically, both Tami and Olumide Soroye is gonna run Fortive post-spin. I think that gives them the degrees of freedom to really invest in, one, in a recurring revenue business that's really strong and has really, really great future, and also a cyclical growth company that Tami will run, and those two businesses, really strong.
We think the story unlocks a ton of value. But it's not just short-term, it's also the strategic value of just how to build those businesses long-term, and we think we'll be really well positioned here when we get this done. In the interim, we're gonna what we announced was really having some experience with spins. We announced that we would take our free cash flow and dedicate that to buybacks between now and spin, and that really, really was twofold.
One was to give investors certainty, both towards how we would use our free cash flow, but also what the balance sheets would look like when we spin the company, so that when we say investment grade, no one can say, ask, "Well, what if you do some big M&A between now and then?" No, we're not gonna do that, so good certainty in what the balance sheets would look like. And I think secondly, it gives people certainty as to what the return on our free cash flow will be between now and spin.
You talked about the unlocking value in the near term. What is the valuation construct here? I mean, you've mentioned the recurring business, the cyclical growth business. I would assume the recurring one, you would think, has a bit higher-
Yeah
... multiple than the-
For sure
... than the cyclical growth. What are the appropriate, you know, metrics then comps that we're using-
Yeah
... for each of these?
I think first of all, when you think about our five-year results, what I was talking about a minute ago, we think both companies will do better than that. You know, we wouldn't, as a board and as a management team, we wouldn't if we didn't think we were unlocking financial performance.
Right
... through better, you know, better execution of strategy, we ultimately wouldn't have done it. So it starts with that. I think when you look at PT, the comps are pretty straightforward. You know, an AMETEK, a Keysight, trading at 18-19 times, those are really straightforward comps. Maybe a little bit more challenging with New Fortive, but I think if you think about a recurring business of 50-plus% recurring revenue, gross margins in the mid- to high-60s%, really strong operating margins, really strong free cash flow, growing at mid-single digits%, you could use a Roper from a few years ago. Those metrics-
Mm
... look very similar to Roper three or four years ago, as an example. Veralto today, and that trades in 20-plus kind of range. So I think we could, with that. You know, but it's, I also don't want anyone to think that we just do that for that short-term bump-
Right
... relative to the comps. It's really about the long-term strategic value of these two businesses and how they operate, and we think that really unlocks a ton of value long-term as well.
The 450 target you guys have put out there, does the buyback, you know, kind of get you there now, or is that, like, is that no longer really even a-
Well, I-
... a relevant piece?
I would certainly say that the 450 was never meant to be a guide, it was meant to be a long-term target, and you know, in the effort of long-term targets, we put a number out there in the interim so that people could hold us to something beyond just five years out, right?
Yep.
I think maybe that led to, "Oh, they'll be guiding to 450 in 2025," which we never would've been doing.
Right.
So let's take that off the table and just say, "Hey, that was never the intention.
Okay.
We do think, for sure, we'll see. You know, as we get closer to the end of the year and kind of come up with a guide, we'll have a better sense. We very much see double-digit earnings growth next year, and we think the buyback will only improve that.
Got it... Just for future reference, when you do put out an EPS number, it's like, it's like giving a dog a bone. So, you have to gotta be careful with the exact EPS numbers-
Yeah
... 'cause we're gonna obviously run with that.
Yeah, yeah.
We have enough trouble coming up with them on our own, so we kind of lean on you guys. As far as the next steps for PT, is there a chance for... If somebody came along and wanted to negotiate on some of these assets before the transaction, is that... You know, are you guys picking up the phone, or are we, you know, kind of sitting there waiting for this thing to go, and-
I think, number one, we evaluated lots of options to unlock value here. And we certainly have a good sense of what our business values are, and that kind of thing. We're gonna run full force to the spin, because through a lot of work, we determined that that was the best way to unlock shareholder value. That said, the door's always open, and if somebody were to come in, we'd be looking at certainty. We'd be you know, things like regulatory environment. We'd be looking at, you know, how long is it gonna take?
Yeah.
Those kinds of things. Tax leakage is an enormous part in some of the businesses, so the value that somebody would have to put in order to pay us for the tax leakage. These are big hurdles towards a very certain plan that we've got. And so fundamentally, we'll evaluate everything within that construct.
If I came along and gave you a big number for a big portion of PT, is there a potential for it’s a big enough part of the portfolio that the company becomes too small to spin from a critical mass perspective?
I mean, that's always how you would look at it is within the construct of decision-making, which we've really already created. We certainly would be thinking about scalable public companies and those kinds of things as well.
Yeah. Okay. The breakup costs and stranded costs, anything new there, just from a details perspective?
No
- and timeframe?
... I think we're early in the process, so I wouldn't get a number. We've done this a few times. I think there's two things: one, within the construct of what you normally see, both for one-time costs and that kind of thing. Secondly, we'll do the work. We'll get there. If there's some stranded costs, we'll work through it. Public company costs are, I think we said, was somewhere in the $50 million-ish range. That's, you know, we've taken a few companies into public domain, so we kind of know those numbers relatively close. And nothing, you know, in the first look that would be big in terms of, "Hey, that's a really hairy spin item"-
Yeah
... we're pretty good at identifying. I think we're really good at identifying those kinds of things, and nothing stands out relative to that either.
Okay.
So.
Jumping into the businesses a little bit on the PT side, I think you've guided the Tek at a low double-digit decline. What does that imply for the second half? For Tek, just remind us of what that implies for the second half.
Yeah, I think second half is around negative mid-single digit.
For tech. It's actually low.
Low double digit.
Okay.
Low double-digit for the second half. Yeah, it's. You'll see a step up in Q4 in the sales piece, and those are orders that we've got a quarter before that we'll be shipping in Q4. So we feel good about how we forecast the business there for Tech.
You think that's been generally de-risked within this environment, that you have good visibility into at least kind of a floor here of revenue?
Yeah, we do. The Q4 forecast and guide is pretty similar to Q3, with the addition of some orders that we have that we're certain on.
Okay. And then, you mentioned earlier today China. What are you guys seeing there? I think you mentioned it's 15% of your sales. Which verticals are you seeing any signs of life there, and what are the weakest-
Yeah
... parts of the business?
The good news about China is we've gotten inventories into place, that when we do sell, we get orders back in. Nothing has changed. All of that is baked into the guide that we have. We're still waiting to see some green shoots in China, and right now it's we're not seeing a lot.
Got it. And, as far as the growth algorithm for PT, mid-single digits, I think, is what you guys have put out. Sounds like, you know, you can do that over the course of a cycle. When you look at your various platforms, I think you broke down four earlier today-
Yeah
... which ones are kind of the above mid-single-digit growers?
Yeah.
Which ones are below, or is everything, you know, kind of in the middle?
Different from Fortive, we'll be a three-cycle grower.
Yeah
... which means, there's probably not a year we'll hit five.
Yeah.
We'll have the years that are 10 and the years that are flat. Hopefully more, as we continue to make more durability in the business. But we're seeing double-digit-type growth in some of the production, aerospace, and defense business, and the utilities business is really strong. A part of the business that we've worked on for a couple of years here at Tektronix is the services business, and that's very stable business, and running at the mid-single-digit kind of range. Then, stable but slow is Europe industrials for our sensing companies, and China, as we've already talked about.
As far as sensing is concerned, that's a business that people don't really know a lot about. What are the key drivers there, and what are you seeing for that business over time?
Yeah, so, we make sensors that are specialized for application. A lot of the reason that technologists choose one of our sensors is the application know-how that we have. So the end markets, whether it's utilities, could be critical environments, which could be healthcare or semiconductor or the food and beverage industry, those are the places where we get a premium for the products, and we've seen continued growth. The sensing businesses that are more general purpose, more factory industrial automation. Those are the ones that there's more competition in that space, and that, that's more in that low single-digit growth.
And that business is, like, an $800 million business, the sensing?
Sensing, all of it.
Is that about right?
Yeah.
Yeah. And then, just lastly, or maybe second to last, Tektronix. You know, just talk about the drivers there, what you see, you know, longer term. What are some of the key areas of growth that you're focused on for Tektronix?
Yeah, we strategically positioned the portfolio around electrification and power, and a piece of that started back more than a decade ago with the acquisition of Keithley Instruments, which took us into this space. We've built upon that with the acquisition of EA, so think all the way from power semiconductor, which there's a lot of new technologies coming out in the semiconductor space, which drives new test and measurement equipment, through all the electronics. When I say the electronics of everything, you just look around and you can see that we're electrifying almost everything in our worlds. It used to be just mobile phones and computers, but now, you know, it's gone to vehicles, and that's leading into batteries and storage, which the last piece of this is the change to the power grid and utilities.
That's a place that we have a play with one of our sensing companies that does sensors and solutions, software solutions for that space. I kind of crossed over tech and went into Qualitrol, but that's the whole electrification space, that it's a 10-year trend.
And then EA, you bought that business in late last year. We're just getting to know it. EVs, batteries, maybe talk about what drives that business and what you're seeing currently, and just remind us what the revenue base is for EA.
So we closed the business in January-
January of this year
And the business will be about $130 million this year. And when we put together the thesis for the purchase of EA, it really followed how we think in this segment about where we make investments. Do we like the secular trends that are happening? And this not only EV and battery, but energy in general. Energy storage we see as a really big opportunity. The second thing, this portfolio is full of premier brands, so best-in-class products that, you know, engineers love, and EA is absolutely that. And the more I talk to customers, the more I've gotten to know it, just reinforces the roadmaps and what they have. The last part was the growth drivers that they saw in 2022 and 2023, which were phenomenal.
They were on a real uptick in growth, and what happened kind of November to February is that really slowed. I'd say at that point we were saying tap the brakes, pushing out projects, to as we got here, coming into the second half, we really saw that that business is the large project business. The multimillion-dollar deals that EA had been doing has really slowed. Now, the good news is, one of the reasons that we thought we were the right owner for this business is they only had about a 60-person sales organization that covered the globe, and we 10Xed that with the Tektronix sales team.
Mm.
So they go up to 600 people that can now sell, and we predominantly sell Tek that is into the R&D space. So although the project business has been tough, still seems to be out there, we just don't have the timing, the kind of run rate R&D business. We've seen the funnels go up 20% in that space and feel really good about that part of the business. So if we can get both of those, you know, cylinders cranking together, the business will get back to what our expectations were.
In the R&D side, you're talking about Tektronix, or you're talking about EA?
Tektronix.
So-
Taking the EA product into where Tektronix is really strong-
Got it
... in the R&D lab.
Got it. I see.
That's where we can give them access.
Would you think Tektronix is gonna kind of lead EA here when it comes to sales recovery?
I think-
Or they'll both be a bit. It'll be coincident?
Think of the Tektronix team as the overall opening the doors for all of the access we have with engineers in the R&D labs. Think of EA as a specialist team that knows that product inside and out, but also calls on a lot of the energy battery ecosystem that Tektronix had not called on.
Mm.
We've got two salesforce.
I think the thought around, you know, how does the market come back-
Yes, simple power.
... they're a little bit more mobility driven today.
Yeah
... so probably they lag a little bit.
Yeah.
We're, you know, the Tektronix team has done a fantastic job of going after this power segment with products and, you know, oscilloscopes and probes and software and solutions, and I think we just built a, a really good, strong ecosystem. The run rate they've been building the run rate business, so, you know, we're gonna they'll, they'll, they're, Tech has a broader business, so they'll, they'll probably lead a little bit before that, before some of these larger projects fall into- and then, but the, I think the beauty of what we've done thus far, the industrial logic, as Tami said, is, remains the same. We've built this run rate. We're starting to build the run rate business, so as the project business comes back, it's not gonna replace the run rate business, it'll be on top of it.
Got it. And I guess you would expect both of them to grow next year? Like-
Both Tech and EA?
Yeah, both Tech and EA-
Correct
... growing next year.
Correct.
One last one, sorry, for you on the margin. Fortive's kind of the company where you just put in 75 basis points, and, like, you don't really think about it, 'cause you guys are, you know, really good at execution on, on the margins historically. Is there anything to that algorithm of up 75 that you guys have given? I think you gave that in your, in the Investor Day. Anything unique in that algorithm, or is it just the gross margin falls through with some productivity?
Is this specific to PT?
PT, correct.
Yeah, PT.
Yeah, I think we have very well-run businesses in PT. I think the upside on that opportunity is how we apply FBS to the EA business and be able to drive a little more operating margin there. But that's the target we have for next year.
Is there, are there any investments beyond EA maybe that you need to make that will be a bit of a headwind to that 75? Anything that you're, you know, that you want to get off on the right foot around early on?
Right now, as we think of the priorities, maybe like day one priorities, first is just continuing that great execution. Very strong operating. The companies in this portfolio are great at operating productivity, lean manufacturing. That's number one. We've got to make sure that we do that really well. Number two is the innovation engine that we started with. Back in 2019, we started to build out a different set of tools in the FBS toolbox around innovation. A lot of that flywheel, you know, we start with one operating company in 2019, it goes to the next and the next. So as we come into 2024, second half year and into 2025, we've got a really nice pipeline of NPIs that will continue to launch to drive growth.
And then the third piece is, yes, we'll continue to have acquisition as a piece of the of our portfolio, but we're going to balance that a little bit more with, as you've seen, share buybacks, potentially a modest dividend. That'll be a decision for our board, but that's another opportunity for us, too.
So it doesn't sound like anything unusual about, you know, the NPI is there. Doesn't really sound like you need to step up R&D or anything like that. This seems pretty steady state.
I would say that.
Okay. All right, you're off the clock. Turning to IOS. Can you just talk about the midterm, you know, mid-single digit, seventy-five-
Yeah
... EPS? First of all, I would assume those are still intact as far as our mindset around what these businesses can do for the next few years?
Well-
Or are we going to kind of reset everything, I think, as a public?
I think we should give the management team the opportunity when we get to a capital markets day to sort of go through that with you. So what I don't want to do is take off the table that option, and I probably would say for both businesses. But it'll certainly you would say with the gross margin profile that the business has and the sort of solid mid-single digit growth, this business is going to be a really strong EPS and free cash flow machine.
Right.
That said, the margins are going to be pretty high.
Yeah.
As you get margins higher, the trade-off is how important is margin expansion? It'll always be important, but I think there'll at least be... So I don't want to take it off the table.
Right.
But I also want to cast the opportunity that, EPS growth and free cash flow growth and organic growth are going to be really, really solid in these businesses, and how that manifests itself relative to accelerating organic growth. I think increasingly, investors will see the benefits of more recurring revenue and a higher organic growth rate. And, you know, we'll see where that takes the decisions around what that might look like.
Okay.
But, I really feel good. I think the biggest thing is, you know, that sort of, when you look at the gross margin profile, 65% plus, it's hard to think you're not going to have accretive margins here over time.
Right.
And the best margins, you know, the ability for businesses that, quite frankly, are still on that growth journey with us from an FBS perspective, are still in the early days, right? The software businesses, we haven't owned for very long. Healthcare is going to have real margin opportunity. So there's plenty of opportunity for margin expansion beyond just the organic growth piece.
So one business that we all know is great, tremendous brand, is Fluke. It's been a little bit tough to analyze in the end market. You'd think it'd be weak, it-
Yeah
... blows right through. Like what are the end markets that have been growing the most at Fluke?
Yeah.
What have we as analysts missed as far as, you know, that business definitely being stronger than we would have expected in a sustainable way?
Yeah
... here in the cycle?
I think we've been through. Number one, the team has really built, because I think you're right, and this kind of went into the logic of why Fluke and RemainCo versus going into PT. Fluke is become much more than a test measurement business historically. When you look at the global breadth and the market breadth, they've built a business that's sold in every country, it's used in every country. When you think about things like the challenges of EV charging networks and keeping them up and running, the renewable energy network, whether it's wind, but certainly solar, keeping panels up and running, all of these things have just been additive to their wonderful brand strength that they've had. The investment in utilities, that's going to be a decade forever.
You know, every lineman has Fluke tools, right? Around the world. So, it's just, you know, those would be three markets that I would say around energy. I'd certainly think that the move towards reshoring, we've captured as foreign direct investment has moved around the world to move manufacturing to be more local, we certainly are. You know, in manufacturing plants around the world, we continue to be the tool of choice for anything electrical. And then just the diversity of instruments as they continue to really leverage and accelerate their innovation engine. Tami mentioned the work that they started at Tektronix in 2019, but Fluke was sort of a fast follower in that regard. And so you're just now seeing a lot of that NPI pieces, too.
So, you know, they've got some parts of the market that have slowed a little bit, but they've been able to grow through that. And then, of course, they have, you know, an eMaint software business that's been growing really, really strongly as well, so-
How big is that now, eMaint?
It's probably close to 7%, 5-6% of Fluke now?
Yep.
That range, and I'm doing the math quickly, in that range.
And if you look at those markets that you talked about, how big are those as a percentage of Fluke? I mean, is that, like, now 30% of Fluke?
Yeah, it's probably-
Or is it-
... probably in a third, you know-
Wow
... 25%-30% of the company today, yeah.
That's pretty impressive, 'cause, I mean, those were kind of-
Yeah, well, and part is-
Not big markets for them.
... those markets have become more important, right?
Right.
There's really been an opportunity, and so, you know, the easy question is, well, you know, solar installation has slowed a little bit-
Yep
... maybe. But when you look at solar maintenance, it hasn't even gotten started, right? Because the network itself is so much bigger, and the need to continue to... We've done a couple of bolt-on acquisitions for them in the fall of last year that are doing fantastic, and I think it just speaks to the ability of those businesses to know they're in markets and position the business here.
Any of those markets you're particularly worried about? Like, would've been the ones that have, you know, fallen off a bit-
If we were in solar-
If there had been any
... if we were in solar production, I'd certainly be
Right
... you know, we'd be more worried about that. But I think given-
But I guess these are growing, and they're now 30%. What are the markets that, you know, you've seen pull back at all?
I think there's, you know, certainly China-
Yeah
... Europe-
Yeah
... maybe just general manufacturing.
Yep.
PMI, you know, there is a part of the business that still has a little bit of, you know, it's tied to PMIs and things and industrial production. So, you know, the slowness in Germany, as an example, in industrial production, some of those places, we've seen some slowing with, with customers there.
Who, who are the key public comps here? I mean...
For all of-
For Fluke.
For Fluke?
Yeah, for Fluke.
I think that's what makes it such an interesting company. You know, it's really an industrial technology company. It has a consumer-like brand-
Yeah
... a consumer-like reach. I think we have well over a million unique end users come to their website every month. So they've got this, you know, unique set of presence with customers. They've got a really, really strong innovation engine. So it's tough.
Yeah.
It's a financial profile that almost looks like a software company in terms of... It's a rule of 40 business.
Right.
It's a very special company, and quite frankly, it's an important part of Fortive going forward, not only because it's the biggest business within Fortive, but it's also been the idea generation for almost all of our recurring revenue. When we think about now we're in facility software, now we're in environmental health and safety, all of those ideas really were rooted out of our presence and domain expertise out of Fluke.
It's amazing, whenever we go to a convention, no matter what convention it is, there's always, like-
Yeah
... Fluke booth ... no matter what it is.
Yes.
It could be anything, and there's always that yellow-
That's right. And that's-
You know, thermal imaging or multimeter-
That-
... or whatever.
... right, that's the breadth of industries-
Yeah
... and, you know, and the breadth of geography.
Yeah.
Which is, if you contrast it with maybe Tektronix, which is a great global franchise, but Tek's, with the R&D engineering, you know, those R&D centers aren't in every country, right?
Yeah.
We're gonna sell a lot in the places where R&D is really big, but we don't have the breadth of use cases that exist like we do at Fluke.
FAL and software, they growing high single digits still?
Yes.
And are there any above or below that range, and any kind of movement in those businesses as we evaluate a bit of a more challenging IT spending environment?
No. I, you know, we had a little bit of a comp thing in the second quarter, so that was more, like, in the mid-single-digit range. But I think as we look forward, we're gonna be high single for the year. And the value- I was just with those teams, yesterday for strategic plans and, you know, they, they feel really good about the future. So I, I think we're gonna be- we're seeing the current get better. You know, they've moved up their net dollar retention number, so we feel, we feel like, you know, we're bringing the... You know, Gordian was kind of the, you know, the great grower in the group.
Yeah.
ServiceChannel, pretty close. We're seeing, I think, Gordian, as Gordian's market normalizes back to where we thought it was, which is, you know, not less than 20%. You know, was a 20% grower for a few years here. Now it's, you know, in the teens. But what we're doing is organic getting better. So we feel like, you know, the combination of all that just makes for a great business here going forward.
How quickly can you guys get to $1 billion in revenue in those businesses?
If you do the math, it's probably, you know, high single digit to low double-digit growth, so that, you know, that's just math there. But we also have, you know, we did two bolt-ons for those businesses, and I think when Olumide talks about some of the bolt-on capability, it's really about features and things that they can bring to that capability that they have today and the selling infrastructure they have today. So there are bolt-on opportunities, and, you know, as we get into 2026 and beyond, that certainly will be a strong consideration for creating value.
How much of that business is now SaaS versus license and-
About half
... you know, the mix?
Little 55%, I'd say.
55%, great.
Yeah.
and I guess when you think about the margin driver, it's not gonna pin you to 75, but when it comes down to Fluke and then the software businesses, what are... Are any of those expanding at a faster rate? I know there was a lot of opportunity, but they all-
I think you'll see probably the software businesses, just because of where they started from, they'll probably be a little bit better.
Okay, great.
But that'll be a balance. And this, this is a little bit to your margin expansion question. That'll be a balance of, like any software company, you always balance the, how much do you want to take to the bottom line versus accelerating the upsell and cross-sell?
Yeah.
You know, the real core capability of what we'll have in new Fortive is this really unique ability to monetize customer value, because we'll have this high recurring revenue. And the... Not only will the M&A capability, but also the innovation capability, will be really around making sure that we continue to build on that installed base, moving net dollar retention up from a commercial perspective, but also from an innovation standpoint. And the trade-off of margin expansion will be how much faster can we grow the company, because we've now got this continued expansion of a customer base.
And then lastly, just on AHS, that business seems to be now hitting its stride after the distribution channel-
Yeah
Restructuring. What do you expect for growth? What are the drivers there in the next year?
Yeah. Well, I-
I know the margin here has been a big debate. 30% is the target. Should we similarly think that, you know, you're gonna give Olumide an opportunity to-
Yeah
- give his own view on that?
Absolutely. I mean, I think that's but, you know, as you know, we've done. That'll be the leader in the clubhouse this year.
Yep
for margin expansion in terms of health. Tami's done a great job in that business. She's gonna hand it to Olumide here over the next 90 days. And I would say, really, well, as we go forward, you know, the ASP is gonna be a big part of that. It's the biggest part of the business. And it will continue to have strong margin expansion. You know, the growth dynamic for ASP, our sterilization business is really, you know, kind of 1-2% price, sort of 1-2% increase in elective procedures on a global basis, and 1-2% equipment expansion.
You know, and when you put that, it's a solid mid-single-digit grower, and you build on that with more consumables, you mix the business up over time. So we think that's a great growth model for ASP, and you combine that with the software businesses that are already very profitable in the segment, you have an opportunity just to continue to... and which are growing well. You know, you continue to mix that business up beyond just the typical productivity things that we would normally do in a business.
What's the difference between, like, STERIS, which seems to always be growing, like, double digit in some way? What's the difference between you guys and-
Yeah
Those guys from a profit perspective?
I think the segment that we compare to at STERIS is $3.5 billion. So when you compare it against our sterilization business, which is roughly, you know, $800 million, you've got a lot of different product in there.
Got it.
You know, you've got everything from OR tables to cabinets and things like that, GI equipment, and stuff we do in sterilization, but we don't do a lot of disinfection. So it's a big difference in terms of business model. Tough to compare those two.
Okay.
We think, you know, we really take a different strategy. Our strategy is really around focus in terminal sterilization and really trying to make sure that we are the sort of collective genius for sterilization professionals who are really trying to, you know, make the world safer for patients.
And then one last question for you, AI. You guys were kind of ahead of this game several years ago.
Yeah.
Obviously, things have changed from a technology, hardware perspective. How do you comment on what you're seeing out there, whether it's the hype, the reality? Like, where do you come down on the AI debate, you know?
Um.
As far as what you're using in your business.
I would say we think of AI in really two senses. One, what can we do internally? And second, what can we do with customers? I would say harnessing the power of generative... So as you said, we built the Fortive, our-
Yeah
AI central lab, if you will, half a decade ago, and that's been working and building capability and hiring people, then putting them in the operating companies and hiring more people and putting... So we're not only building the centralized capability, but making that more pervasive in all the operating businesses. I would say we've had really good success in using generative AI in software development, which is, you know, when you think about it, obviously, that is in our software businesses, but most of our hardware businesses today have a huge software component.
Yep.
So we're getting tremendous productivity through that work, and we're just getting started. So I would say we're, well, we're really high in that. The second thing is in productivity. Think of that as just how can we help professionals throughout the enterprise use AI in their daily jobs? And I would say we're starting to get to that. Some of it. There's a lot of work you need to do on the data models in order to make those things really helpful to people, and we're just getting started on that. And then, on the customer side, we're using a lot of AI to interact with customers, in customer success, and in marketing and things like that. And I would say that's been. We've got some really good stories there.
On the customer front, we've just launched a couple of different AI solutions within our software businesses. This, that's super early days. So collectively, we just had this review with the board a little while ago, last month, and I would say we continue to do a lot. But I, you know, and I'm. So I'm-- I think we, as a leadership team, are big believers. But I think when we think about that model, every, you know, because we have a few different operating companies, you can't apply that sort of model framework that we have to every business and say, every business will have that opportunity. And I think the mistake you can make is to say, AI, everything for everything and everywhere. That might be true down the road.
Right now, getting use cases that can really add value, 'cause we see those, and accelerating those is really where our focus is right now.
Yeah, I'm one of the top users in research, apparently, and I'm trying to, like, have it-
Yeah
Do the morning meeting and, like, travel for me and, like, do all the research, and it's not working out like that.
Yeah, I mean, I've got about three different applications I use things for, and some are... One is great, two are maybe could be user error.
Yeah
... but not, not as helpful yet.
Yeah, yeah. That was a joke, by the way.
The AI, AI for CEOs isn't quite out yet.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, that'll be coming. Cheaper, definitely cheaper. Any questions for these guys?
We've seen a lot of people today. Actually, I don't know. No, I'm ahead. You see a lot of investors today as people digest what you guys are embarking on, what comes up, what's the biggest pushback, people struggling within welcome parts here. Just wondering how you parse through that?
Yeah, I would say number one is we put a lot out on one day. So, you know, from the spin, leadership changes over time, you know, a little bit change in the capital allocation strategy, both short-term, but also reconsidering some of the long-term aspects of capital allocation. And, you know, why would we. You know, and I think what I said is, we did a lot of work, came to a conclusion, and it really just made sense to do these things at the same time.
We feel really, really good about the fact that when you look at the comps, you've got a short-term, clear, "Hey, would you wanna buy 18-20 times companies at 15-16 right now, times multiple free cash flow, same way? Trade them free cash flow." So you see the short-term value creation, and when we walk everybody through that math, I think everybody sees the real value. Then it's getting to the long term. Like, why, why does the strategic logic really make sense? And that's what we've been going through over the last couple weeks. I've been on the road pretty much every day since we announced, and we announced that we were actually on the road. So I think as we've done that, we've created a lot of excitement.
What it really is, is because in Fortive today, you have a lot of different investors. Some of them, there's some remnants from our Danaher spin that have sort of been and stayed in. Other people, you know, want that recurring revenue model and have been really excited about that language. Other people have really said, "Hey, we're really you know we benefit from some of the cyclical story." And so I think this independent investment model, you know, what you're underwriting and understanding that, and a simpler story, and we'll get that simpler story out over time as well, I think that's what's really resonated.
And I think to your credit, since you guys came out as a public company, I mean, you've moved incredibly fast. I think we were thinking about this transformation as kind of almost like a every couple, three years-
Yeah
... you know, there'd be a big move. And, like, you guys were, like, right out of the gate, moving pretty quickly. Which I think also hurt to a degree, because the underlying business was getting better, but if, you know, the common idiot pulls up Bloomberg, they see, like, flat-
Right
... you know, flat reported results.
Yeah.
But I give you full credit for coming out, having a vision, and like, you know, going after it, 'cause most guys would kind of sit there in the 10-year kind of CEO run-
Yeah
... collect a paycheck for three years-
I, uh-
... restructure, then come out with something else. You know, I've seen it before.
I would... Well, thanks. I think that was a compliment somewhere. I'm just trying to figure that out, but maybe sometimes-
Sorry, I'm trying to kill the clock.
But I think, you know, it just kind of gets to the logic of why we have so much conviction about what we announced. We really deeply believe in this... Somebody said, "Well, was this move planned eight years ago?" And the answer is, you know, I was at Danaher for 20 years, and-
Yeah
... I know that I never saw the 20-year plan.
Right.
Things evolved-
Right
... as markets evolved and that kind of thing. And this is a great next step forward, and I just, I think we have deep conviction. We've got two outstanding leaders who are ready to be CEOs, and I think the combination of great leadership going forward, along with the strategic logic here, is gonna create a tremendous amount of value. We would not have done this if we didn't think that the two were gonna be worth a lot more than the whole today. We wouldn't have done it if we didn't think that, and we have deep conviction around it.
Great. Well, thanks so much. Congrats again.
Thanks.
Congrats, to Tami as well.
Thank you.
Congrats to J.P. Morgan for pulling off another great event.
Yeah. Thank you. Great to be here.
Thanks, guys.