Okay, we're gonna get started. Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Ben Swinburne, Morgan Stanley's Media and Telecom Analyst. For important disclosures, please see the Morgan Stanley Research Disclosure website at morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures. I'm excited to welcome to the conference, I think speaking for the first time with us, certainly, is Liberty's CEO, Greg Maffei. Greg has been the CEO of Liberty Media since last February, but is a veteran executive across the global media, sports, and entertainment industry. Greg, thanks for coming. Good to see you.
Thanks for having me, Ben, and congratulations on your new gig.
Thank you so much.
You know, Disney is a big partner of F1's, so I'm very excited to be working.
Yeah.
With you in that capacity too
Absolutely. That sounds great. All right, why don't we get started? There's a lot to talk about and a lot going on in the world. I think maybe we should start with sort of what's happening geopolitically in the Middle East. I think you guys. I know we look at the calendar, there's two races in April in that region. What's sort of the message today to investors on how you guys are thinking about navigating this?
Yeah, I mean, clearly it's very timely, and obviously, unfortunate for much broader reasons. I think as it relates to us, well, right now, we have people in transit to Melbourne for the season opening race. That all is, at this point, still going as planned, which we are excited about because it should be, and we'll get more into this later, a very, very exciting season. I think, in particular that as we look at the calendar, we have two races in the Middle East in April, in Bahrain and Jeddah. MotoGP has a race also in Qatar and in April. Those are situations that we are, as you might imagine, clearly monitoring what's going on and how that might impact us.
I think that, we'll probably have more definitive news on that in the very near future.
Okay.
I don't have anything more than that right now. We have, you know, contingency planning that we do on this sort of stuff. You know, we're evaluating that and any potential impacts that might have on our business. Again, no details right now. Again, hopefully, as with all conflicts it ends soon. You know, how it impacts our business, we'll have more news on later.
Okay. All right. Nothing to add right now. Why don't we talk a little bit about sort of where Liberty Media is in its what is it, 4.0, I think we're at, per John. You completed the Liberty Live split off in December. Where does that sort of leave the company now, kind of structurally and strategically, if we start high level?
Sure. I think the Liberty Live spin off has made us or split off has made us clearly a much more simplified structure. Now we're operating Liberty Media with two primary assets, which is Formula One and MotoGP, two premier sports brands, sports IP. I think as we think about Liberty Media, focusing on those as operating assets and the growth, and what we need to do to support that growth is clearly job one. I think as you look beyond that, where we can continue to grow and seeing Liberty Media as, you know, a continuing growth vehicle, where can we invest into those businesses, alongside those businesses, you know, and then ultimately into similar types of businesses, all that for us is what we're evaluating now.
I think that we're excited about what we have.
Yeah.
We're really excited about, you know, current geopolitical situation notwithstanding, really excited about these businesses.
Sure.
I'm looking forward to seeing them grow.
Great. maybe before we dive into businesses, does the fact that it's a simplified company focused on sports kinda narrow your M&A lens, or Is your M&A lens, was it already narrow maybe before the Liberty Live split off in terms of where you would deploy inorganically?
Well, I think if you look at the history of Liberty Media, we've been pretty opportunistic.
Yeah.
I think that will always be a hallmark of Liberty Media. I do think, though, that, you know, the company is set up in a certain way right now. We have to maintain sort of discipline across what we're investing in and how we're doing that and all that sort of stuff. I would say that, you know, comparable sorts of businesses are the ones we'd be most interested in. I think where we can add value-
Mm-hmm.
In a Liberty Media sort of way, whether that's through relationships, spotting opportunities, financial structuring, all that sort of stuff would play into what we're gonna pursue.
Got it. Maybe just one more. Are there any practical implications that investors should be thinking about of John Malone transitioning to sort of chairman emeritus? you know, how is that impacting sort of the day-to-day running of... in your role as CEO of the company?
I would say there's probably negligible impact on a day-to-day basis.
Yeah.
John has obviously put in what he believes is, you know, skilled management team, a supportive board, a knowledgeable board. I think that it's up to us to plot the strategy as we move forward. That being said, John is, you know, has a significant holding or control of the company, in the company. It would make sense for us to have continuing dialogue with John and understanding sorta, where his priorities are. I think over time, that's kinda been how we've run things, and I don't see that necessarily changing. It, it is great, though, to have John, in the position that he has been in and the position he's in now, because as we all know. You know, John is a long-term holder.
Yeah.
That has very positive effects for us as we run these businesses.
Okay. All right. Why don't we talk about Formula One, the business? You wrapped up, 2025, reporting earnings recently. Revenues were up 14%, adjusted OIBDA up 20%. Of course, the market always wants to know what's next. Maybe you could talk a little bit, about the sort of growth drivers for the business and how sustainable you think those are into the future.
Sure. I think, you know, if you look at our revenues, you know, we're sort of got three main sources of revenue, media rights, sponsorship, race promotion, I think, you know, we see different levels of growth across those probably, but I think they're all healthy, which is great. On the media rights side, you know, last year we announced sort of new deals or renewals in the U.S., which I'm sure we'll talk about later. Brazil. Japan. Just this morning, we announced that we are renewing with Foxtel in Australia, ESPN down in Latin America, beIN in Southeast Asia.
A lot of activity over the course of the last year with what I believe are the right partners who will help us both from a traditional broadcast standpoint, but as we think about new ways to engage fans, the right partners in a lot of these markets do that. From a race promotion standpoint, you've seen most recently last year, we announced, I believe, renewals in Austria and Austin. We recently announced a new deal with Barcelona, where Barcelona and Spa will rotate races, alternate. We are continuing to see sort of good growth in that sector.
We are also continuing to see good demand and interest, both from our existing partners, as well, other cities and locations out there, which I think will help support what we're trying to do continue to do from a global standpoint. The other thing about sort of race promotion that people miss sometimes is you've got, you know, traditionally a fee that gets paid to you to host a race. We have a lot of hospitality.
Mm-hmm.
Inventory at the race, predominantly the Paddock Club. I think as we renew deals or strike new deals, creating more of that inventory for both us and the local partner is a good thing and produces a lot of value because clearly that type of hospitality and inventory is in high demand. If it's in high demand and you can supply it, hopefully that generates more revenue overall. I think there's twofold, you know, benefits on the race promotion side. I think probably what people are talking about most recently is probably on the sponsorship side.
Yeah.
Clearly, that team at F1, Stefano, Emily Prazer, those guys have really been honed in on sponsorship and what that means. I think in addition to just sort of the fees that get paid for that sort of business, I think almost more important is the types of companies that we are associating with. When you think about this last year and people coming online and new deals that we've done in terms of, you know, LVMH, Lego, Pepsi, Disney, we just announced earlier this year, a deal with Standard Chartered.
Mm.
in terms of wealth management. That sort of, has the ability for us to expand our own brand because those guys are sort of associating with us what they're doing, and all the marketing might that a lot of those brands put behind their own brands accrues to us also.
Sure.
I think the other thing that you're seeing from a sponsorship standpoint that it's good to note is clearly we've added a lot of new sponsors. We do believe that there are categories that are certainly still available. The other interesting dynamic in terms of demand is there's so much demand, it's causing the sort of you have different tiers of sponsors, global sponsors on down. You get movement, sometimes people trading up because they want that profile and therefore paying more. People sometimes trading down because maybe at that level it's no longer affordable for them. You know, when they move down, they're probably coming in at a higher rate than what that level traditionally has been. The other dynamic that you're seeing is people coming to us, existing partners coming out to us and asking to renew early.
You know, we just did a Salesforce deal. I think we announced that today. Part of that is them looking out their long term saying, "Hey, this is a brand we wanna continue to affiliate with. We like it. We wanna renew now because we worry that the price goes up...
Yeah.
as the days go on.
Nice. That's great. We'll dive into those revenue streams in more detail in a minute, but I did wanna at least ask you about the upcoming season from an F1, you know, sport and fan point of view. You got new cars, you got a new team coming on. There's a lot of change going on. There's been, I mean, I don't know, some controversy, I guess, if you would agree or not, around during testing. How would you sort of describe the changes coming to F1 this year and what they might mean for the business, as we look out over the course of 2060?
Yeah. No, you're right. They're new cars, new engines, new features-
Yep.
which are, you know, well, people will have to learn and understand. We're trying to make them more user-friendly. I think, you know, it really brings a lot of excitement to what's going on. The fact that you're talking about testing, people didn't know that they tested last year, right?
I did not know that.
Again, that's bringing sort of more awareness of this sort of thing to all of our fans. I think anything that brings that sort of engagement is always good. Now, the new rules, the new technology, different teams may get impacted differently, but, you know, they're all big boys, and that's part of their job which is to figure out how to sort of maximize their performance under whatever the current rules are. You're seeing a lot of that going on right now. By nature, you know, some people will complain, some people will be happy, and, you know, we'll see how that goes. It'll always bring intrigue.
Sure.
Which again, is good, because as you know, we're not just a sport, we are an entertainment brand. I think anything that supports that and gets people interested is good. I think when you think about the new teams, Audi and Cadillac. Audi bought Sauber, and Cadillac is a new team to the grid. I think for this market, for the U.S. market.
Yeah
... having Cadillac coming in is hugely significant. They spent, I don't know, you probably know what a Super Bowl ad cost this year, like $7 million, something like that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Cadillac bought a Super Bowl ad, right, to, you know, showcase and introduce their livery and, really that was their coming out. When you have Cadillac, you know, putting the might of the Cadillac organization, behind their F1 entry, you can think about what that then means in terms of, them promoting the sport, their team, whether it's in their dealership, whether dealerships, you know, whether it's through advertising, whatever it is, they're bringing that much more awareness to it too, in a market that hasn't necessarily seen that.
Yeah
... from a manufacturer, right? Again, how we engage, how we attract new fans, all that is sort of happening in multiple ways.
Only F1 could the Super Bowl ad be filled with drama as always. All right, the other big thing that's happening in the U.S. this year is your Apple deal, which is co-commencing here with Australia coming up, I guess, in a weekend or two. There's been a lot of discussion about, you know, the monetization, the reach elements to it, what Apple brings to the sport. Talk about why you're excited about this partnership and maybe what are the things you think investors might be missing about the benefits long term of being in business with Apple?
Yeah. first of all, I do wanna say thank you to ESPN for having a long six-year history with us and helping us to promote the sport, get it to where it is, so you can report that back.
Yep.
... to your new bosses.
I'll get back to that.
But Apple, look, I think we all know sort of the distribution landscape in media, in sports media, has been changing literally every single day over the past 15 years. What we saw was an opportunity with Apple to really go big in this space. To your point, people will question it, and people have questioned it. We feel very confident in sort of this relationship. Apple, in our minds, brings a lot to the table in this construct. It's not just sort of Apple TV, it is sorta Apple Music, Apple News, the Apple Store. Just like we talked about Cadillac earlier, you know, they have similar sort of touch points that go well beyond what you think about from a traditional television standpoint to a traditional video standpoint.
We don't focus on reach in sort of, an archaic definition of sort of how many people are watching it on TV, but really how do you touch your fans? How do you engage with your fans? I think as we will see over the next sort of five years, the product should develop. Maybe not so much the 1st year.
Yeah.
As they put their engineers to task and they think about what they can do with F1, we will see, I think, a lot of cool stuff come out. Look, you know, the Apple movie-.
Yeah
... right? This past summer, or last summer, the Apple movie, which grossed over $600 million, right? The biggest sports movie of all time. Brad Pitt's biggest movie of all time. What that did for F1, I think Apple will continue to look for ways to do that sort of... Just yesterday, they had on, you know, right by your offices in, what is it, 1575 Broadway?
1585.
1585 Broadway, right? The F1 on that screen, the cars going right past you. They are committing tons of support, effort, promotional value into this relationship. I think you also saw recently Apple did a deal with IMAX theaters to distribute the races into certain races into those theaters. Just last week, did a deal with Netflix-
Yep.
where Apple will stream season eight of Drive to Survive. Netflix will broadcast the Canadian Grand Prix this year alongside Apple. You know, two huge platforms coming together to promote F1.
Yeah
... at the end of the day, which is phenomenal for us, right? I think when you think about, you know, the, the start of your question, one of the things we saw in doing a deal with Apple is that they're operating in a different space than traditional broadcasters.
Sure.
Again, not to go back to ESPN, but if you think about it and having sat in this chair a long time ago at DirecTV, where I had to negotiate with all the broadcasters.
Sure. Yeah.
... and the limitations I would put on them as part of the negotiation in terms of where they could broadcast, when they could broadcast, all that sort of stuff, would've put someone like ESPN in a much more restrictive position in terms of what they could do with F1 and our product, where Apple could go do that deal with Netflix.
Sure.
I don't think you'd see that happening, for instance, with an ESPN, right? It opens up many new opportunities for Apple to promote F1 at the end of the day.
What is the impact, if at all, on your direct-to-consumer strategy in the U.S.? F1 TV has been a really nice growth story globally, but particularly here. And I think... And I know that's changing at least the way consumers access it within the Apple ecosystem. How do we think about what that product does for the business and whether there's any change as a result of the Apple relationship?
I don't think with respect to that business it changes that much other than the way it's sold. As you said, access, right? It's gonna you're gonna get it through the Apple TV platform. You know, for people last year, who depending on what level of service you had, it's probably, you know, a $2 increase or even a $4 decrease from having the standalone F1 product. We don't feel that there's, you know, a huge economic difference on that. Most importantly, F1 TV continues to exist. It's just how it's sold.
Yeah.
Also means we continue to get data from that product, and that feeds into, as you were saying earlier, our sort of our understanding of our consumer, of our fans. In addition to sort of what they view on F1 TV, what merch they're buying, what tickets they're buying, all that sort of stuff feeds into, "Hey, this is what we know about our fans," which we can, you know, A, understand better, monetize ourselves, serve them better with product and whatever it is. Also for our partners, whether they're sponsors, you know, media partners, whatever it is, give them that information.
Mm-hmm
... in a way that is helpful to them, which then brings more value to us because of what they pay us or whatever it is.
You know, you mentioned Drive to Survive before. Obviously, that's been a huge part of F1's rise in popularity around the world. You had the F1 movie. Now we're seeing this sort of innovation and evolution of content for the company with Netflix, et cetera. How do you think about content and storytelling just as a continued growth driver for sports, F1 and maybe even for MotoGP over time?
Yeah. I think one stat that's important is 60% of our fans, you know, access F1 on a daily basis, right? Whatever that is, reading articles, social media, or watching Instagram of someone's dog or whatever it is, one of the driver's dogs, right? Whatever it is, they're accessing it, which means those people are not just waiting for the race to be broadcast on Sunday. What that says is, "Hey, content is important. Storytelling is important.
Yeah.
All of that is important because it's what feeds the machine. At the end of the day, it's not just what happens on Sunday. Sunday is exciting, but it's all this other stuff. That also gets us into sort of segmentation of sort of the fan base, right? You've got hardcore fans. You also have casual fans. You have fans who are interested in, you know, the, the testing. Like Ben, you're an expert now, right? You're watching the testing. You know, you may have fans that don't even watch much of the race, but they're engaging in so many different ways because they're watching the movie or you know, they're just watching short-form content on social media of, you know, Lando eating dinner, whatever it is. Content, storytelling, all of that is critical to the brand.
Got it. I did wanna ask you mentioned earlier you've had a number of media rights renewals outside the U.S. That's a market investors generally have a little less visibility into. Can you talk a little bit, at least even qualitatively, about sort of the growth you're seeing, in your international renewals since every market is kind of unique?
Yeah. What you've seen is, you know, in certain markets. You know, we've just renewed with Foxtel, so that's an existing partner that we're continuing to do business with. In other markets where we might have gone in a different direction.
Yeah
... you're actually seeing you know, the traditional, you know, heavyweight broadcasters in some of these markets come back to us or start new with us because they've seen what the growth of F1 is. Globo in Brazil-
Right
like everyone knows that. Televisa in Mexico, right? Fuji in Japan.
Yeah.
Right? These are the heavyweights. Them seeing that value and them wanting our product, our races, our content is really a big demonstration to me of what we've done on this front.
Okay. You mentioned earlier sponsorship, new categories, different tiers. I think the probably the popular view out there is that's still your highest growth opportunity was on a percentage basis of your major revenue streams. Do you see continued long runway in sponsorship for the business?
Yeah. I mean, when I talk to Stefano, he's as pumped as ever.
Yeah.
So I think-
I can hear that.
... he, his team, that's a very, very creative group of people.
Yeah.
What they've been able to do. I get calls all the time from other leagues because as you might imagine, given my career-
New people.
... pretty well-traveled at this point. You know, say, "Hey, how did you do that? How do you do that on hospitality? How do you do that on sponsorship? How'd you come up with that creative idea?" That also tells me, hey, we're doing the right stuff, and I think that creative engine continuing and will continue to lead to successful sort of growth for us.
Okay. You guys had your third Las Vegas Grand Prix back in November. Sounds like it was a success, you know, financially. Can you talk a little bit about kinda where that race is, what the long-term vision for that business is, and if you think it continues to be a driver of sort of value for the company over the next couple years?
Yeah. If you go back to before we started Vegas, I think there were. You know, we were taking on a lot.
Yeah.
I think we all recognized it was probably gonna be a bumpy road, but, you know, the reward at the end of all of it was gonna be there. Even though we're not anywhere near the end, even three years later, we've seen that pan out, right? First few years just operationally.
Yeah
... getting that right and probably spending in places just because you had to get the race going that evening. Our relations with the community, probably not great off the start, right? You think about it, a new race in your city, shutting down the streets for three nights or whatever it is, not a great look.
Yeah.
Now, three years later, you've seen our community relations, our local relations probably in as good a spot as ever. You know, people in Vegas take pride in the fact that the race is there now. That, I think, has allowed us to work much more collaboratively with the local governments, with our local partners, right, the casinos, to actually start thinking about really what this can become in the future and not, hey, complaining about the fact that we did this wrong or they did that wrong or, you know, that sort of stuff, which over the first two years you probably had that. Hopefully through the growing pains and now thinking about what the future can hold.
We are working very closely with all of them to figure out how do we make the race better, how do we present it better, how do we help casinos sell, how do they help us, drive fans, and all that sort of stuff, which is a pretty cool place to be. I think that, you know, one of your points is what does this mean for F1? It means a ton.
Yeah.
Right? I think most visibly, sort of the impact in the U.S.
Yeah
... and what Vegas has meant. It's been the third race, but, you know, I think people look at it and they're like, "Oh my God, you know, three races now, Vegas, Miami, Austin, this is a critical piece of that strategy." The other thing that you've seen, one of the reasons that we made this investment as opposed to licensing it to someone else was sort of speed to market and getting it done in our own way. We were able to do that, and I think that turned on, we talked about sponsorship earlier, a few different sponsors that sort of engaged with us because we had Vegas and now have gone, say, global with us. Amex is a, is a great example of that.
What Vegas has done to sort of burnish the brand around the world globally is sort of a huge impact that doesn't always show up, you know, in the direct Vegas P&L.
Yeah. I mean, given those benefits, would it make sense to self-promote, so to speak, in other markets? Is this really a unique situation given the U.S. and Vegas?
Yeah. I think it's pretty unique.
Yeah
... just because we're operating in a jurisdiction where we actually have familiarity.
Yeah.
I think there was reason why Vegas itself was critical to our strategy, and I just elaborated as to why. I wouldn't say we wouldn't do it somewhere else, but stars would have to align in a way that made sense for us to do it versus sort of, you know, several other people who are now clamoring to get in with races in different locations.
Okay. Last F1 question, and we'll turn to MotoGP. You've got the Concorde Agreement now done that runs through 2030, so you have line of sight on all the pieces of your relationship with the teams. What should investors understand about the, in particular, the team payment structure and sort of the operating leverage that the business can see over the course of the five years?
Yeah, I think what we said recently is we see about 200 basis points in 2026 and then stable sort of after that. I think the best part about the Concorde Agreement is a continuation of an arrangement with all the people in the ecosystem that matter for another five years. We have, you know, the operating parameters of how we work together over the next five years. If you go back 10 years to when Liberty bought F1 and the state of the relationships with, you know, F1 and the promoters, F1 and the teams, not good. Not good at all.
Right.
I think a large part of the success most recently has been the fact that the level of trust that exists now between us and the teams is significantly different than what it was, you know, 10 years ago. Now we come together and think about collaborating on stuff, not what are you trying to take from me versus, you know, him and why does he get that. I think you've seen it play out. You know, Drive to Survive, the first season, Ferrari and Mercedes.
Right. Who are not there.
... were not there.
Forgot about that.
Right?
Yeah.
Now you do these different projects, whether it's Disney or Lego and things like that, where you need everyone to participate, and you see them all sort of coming to the table. Yeah, we still squabble on stuff, but, you know, it's all small relative to the fact that everyone's gotten religion around the fact that if we can work together, the whole pie grows and everyone benefits.
Yeah. Well, the team values have definitely grown.
They have.
All right, let's talk about MotoGP. You closed that deal last summer. How would you say the business is performing versus your kind of initial underwriting plan? Any surprises, good or bad, that we should be aware of at this point?
Yeah. We're still, you know, getting into it, but I think coming away with our initial impressions as, you know, very, very excited to have this business.
Yeah.
There aren't many businesses like this. you know, you go to a couple of these races and you understand sort of the passion that is there. You also understand just the sport itself and sort of the emotion that it evokes because it is so sort of raw and dangerous, and that is what that brand, I think, will be. I think from a business commercialization standpoint, it's gonna be a bit of a build. You know, we've talked about that, which is, hey, we gotta build the pieces to this. I don't think there's fundamentally anything to the sport per se and huge investment that way. It's building out, you know, the team and people with the requisite skills in terms of building brands, commercializing, the enterprise. That's all sort of doable in our minds. It will take some time.
It probably will be a little bit choppy. You know, as we start to look towards 2027, in 2027 we start to see some of the rise in sort of promoters as we have struck new deals, and those will start to flow in, I think, in 2027. We're already having, you know, engaged conversations on the media front with respect to renewals that we have, our deals that are gonna come up. Then, you know, on sponsorship, it is still predominantly endemic sponsors.
Yeah.
That's gonna be an area of opportunity. As we sort of, again, build that brand, and then monetize against it, we'll see sort of more general sponsors come in. I think an important thing here is it is an amazing sport and an amazing brand with a long history. There are a lot of stories to be told. We just need to tell it to more people.
Sure.
We will build that audience, and we will build that fan engagement.
To that end, you've got your team deal up, I think at the end of 2026 with the MotoGP teams. What are your main objectives? What are you trying to get out of that renewal to help, you know, realize the opportunity?
I think we're close to getting that done.
Okay.
I think what we're trying to do there is sort of build a construct with those teams where people, again, have a similar level of trust with each other, understand that, you know, we're all in this to build the business. I think we will get there. I think there's opportunity that is playing out on the team side. you know, Tech3 was sold recently to a group led by David Blitzer, Main Street Advisors. Look, these are people that understand sport as an entertainment asset and the fact that you actually need to invest.
Yeah.
I know a couple other teams may sort of have new investors come in at some point, and what we're looking for is those investors to have a similar mindset to us. Again, how do we invest and build this sport together? I think you'll see sort of a lot of success over, you know, several year period once that happens.
Okay. Maybe in the last couple minutes, Greg, Liberty always has, or not always, but certainly under the F1 MotoGP world, has a high-class problem of generating a lot of cash flow and deleveraging pretty rapidly. You guys, I don't think have a sort of formal leverage target anymore.
Yeah.
How should your investors think about deploying capital, you know, over the next couple years as the balance sheet gets to be at a leverage level that's, you know, pretty, at least my words, conservative over the next few years?
Sure. I think we talked about this at the beginning, but, we are deleveraging. To your point, hopefully we'd be at a point relatively soon where you'd say, "Hey, how are you investing your capital?
Yes.
I think what we talked about is we would like to invest in growth in our businesses, growth alongside our businesses, you know, similar types of businesses. You know, kinda what I was talking about earlier. Then, you know, maintaining sort of that disciplined approach to it, trying to leverage off of what Liberty has done in the past, what it is now, our relationships, our ability to spot those sorts of opportunities, our ability to finance them creatively. But you know, we're also not gonna do sort of dumb deals. We also understand sort of what the expectations are, so we've gotta make sure that whatever we do, we have the ability to explain that properly to our investors.
I do feel like Liberty now, after what we did last year with a lot of the corporate maneuverings, the acquisition of MotoGP, the split off of Liberty Live at the end of the year, you know, we're in a good position.
Yeah.
You talked about the financial strength, and I think we should use that.
Okay. Well, we're out of time. Greg, thanks so much for coming. Good to see you.
Thanks for having me. Thank you, everyone.