Well, good morning, everyone. Let's get started with the next session. I'm Ashwin Shirvaikar, Head of FinTech Research, and it's my pleasure to welcome next Global Payments. From Global Payments, we have Josh Whipple, who is the Senior EVP and CFO. Josh, thank you for doing this. Welcome to our event. Really appreciate it.
Thanks, Ashwin. Great to be here.
I love the exclusivity. I definitely do, so appreciate that as well.
Yeah, correct.
So, as sort of a intro, if we can, can you jump right in? 2024 is the first year for Global Payments in its current form.
Sure.
Right? Could we maybe start with a top level of, you know, who you are today, if you will? I know, I know Global Payments as a company is known to, known to everyone, but who you are today. Talk about the two segments at a high level, and then, more importantly, I want to get into sort of the management philosophy that, that you, that you have with regards to, with regards to guidance and numbers and so on and so forth.
Yeah, sure. So, you know, let me start. You know, I should say it's, it's great to be here today, and, you know, thanks for having us. And, and, you know, look, we think we have a very compelling, you know, tech-enabled strategy. And, and in 2023, we made significant progress on our financial and our, and our strategic objectives, including efforts to create a, a simpler model. You know, first, you know, we successfully closed the acquisition of EVO in March. You know, this enhanced our position in integrated payments, B2B, and, and faster growth markets. You know, additionally, you know, we completed the sale of our, our Netspend business, and our gaming solutions business in April. And, you know, these, these three transactions represented important milestones for us as we seek to, you know, advance our strategy.
Today, we remain committed to building the leading technology-enabled and software-driven payments business worldwide with an extensive scale and unmatched global reach. If we, you know, focus on our merchant business for a moment, you know, this business drives approximately 75% of our overall, you know, net revenue. Software sits, you know, at the heart of our merchant solutions business, and it's supported by our integrated payment strategy, which spans our partner ISV, our vertical markets, and our POS software businesses. Collectively, you know, Ashwin, these businesses represent about 40% of our overall merchant solutions and business, and they contribute a meaningful share of the overall, you know, growth in that business. We overlay our software businesses with our market-leading e-commerce and omnichannel solutions.
Our ability to deliver these solutions, you know, worldwide, you know, further differentiates our business relative to our peers. If we move on to our issuer solutions business, you know, this counts for about, you know, 25%, you know, of the overall mix. And in this business, we lead in the market with differentiated issuer processing, you know, technology and functionality, worldwide scale, terrific customer service, and a partnership mentality. Very similar to what we do in our merchant solutions business. And we hold the number one position in scheme-based credit cards in the U.S., you know, Canada, U.K., and Ireland. And we're actively expanding into the rest of the world, you know, especially in markets like Latin America and Asia Pacific.
And we also have a very strong position with some of the largest and the most well-capitalized financial institutions in the world, which are continuing to gain, you know, market share. And this includes names like, you know, TD, Bank of America, you know, Citi, and JP Morgan, just to name a few. And the fundamentals of this issuer business, of our issuer business, remain very, very strong. You know, in 2023, we added more than 50 million accounts on file, and we ended the year with a record, you know, traditional accounts on file with over 800 million accounts on, on file. And we also have, you know, have a very strong pipeline, which creates great visibility into 2022. And we have eight letters of intent that have, you know, been signed with institutions worldwide.
And then finally, you know, Ashwin, I'd be remiss if I didn't comment on our B2B business. You know, B2B payments is core to our strategy. It spans both of our segments, and we've seen strong growth across both our corporates and our financial institutions. And then, you know, in summary, I would say, you know, Ashwin, we are selling more market-leading technology through our distribution channels than we ever have. And we feel very confident that we've built a better, you know, more resilient, you know, business model, which positions us incredibly well, you know, for future growth.
Okay, thanks for that. That's a great intro. Maybe we should shift next to macro because payments is a cyclical business.
Yep.
Can you talk about the macro sensitivity across the two segments and kind of the full company? You know, as it relates to rates and other things, not just rates, but also other elements that go into macro. Then talk maybe if you can about the underlying, financial assumptions that you built into your outlook.
Yeah, sure. You know, look, you know, Ashwin, I think you're right. You know, payments is a GDP derivative business. And but, you know, as I mentioned, we believe that we've, you know, built a, have a strategic focus that's allowed us to build a more resilient and durable business model. And in our merchant business, you know, I would characterize, you know, our business mix is pretty well diversified across discretionary and non-discretionary categories. And today, we're exposed to over 70 different verticals in 100 different geographies. And many of these geographies are in faster growth markets, where we're seeing really strong, you know, secular trends, and we remain in the early innings of digital payments adoption.
And then I also, you know, just mentioned that roughly, you know, 40% of our merchant solutions business is software, and many of the revenue streams there are recurring and subscription in nature. In our issuer business, you know, we have a balanced mix between volume and non-volume-based revenue, with over, you know, half of our revenue being derived from accounts on file and transactions where we've seen, you know, really, you know, steady and healthy growth. So, you know, while I feel like, you know, we're, we're well positioned across, you know, both of these businesses based on the points that I mentioned, you know, we're certainly not immune from the change in the overall, you know, economic environment. But what I do think is important is how these economic factors, you know, impact the consumer.
This is something that we obviously, you know, continue to monitor. You know, as it relates, you know, to our outlook, you know, our base case for 2024 presumes that spending trends are relatively consistent with what we saw in exiting 2023, including a slightly more tempered, you know, economic, you know, environment. And that's, you know, what we've seen thus far in January and February.
Okay, well, that's good. So, I guess you touched on this a little bit in your answer to macro, but when it comes to merchant services, obviously that's the piece that changed the most.
Sure.
because, you know, you have EVO, you don't have gaming.
Sure.
When you sort of look at merchant services from a go-to-market perspective.
Yeah.
You will, right? And you, I know you touched on this, but maybe we keep going to a little bit more detail with regards to, let's just say software versus ISV relationship, ISVs versus relationship-based and so on. You know, how does it look today and any further details that you can provide there?
Yeah, sure. Look, you know, Ashwin, as I mentioned, you know, software really sits at the heart of our merchant solutions business, and, and it's supported by this integrated payment strategy, which kind of spans our, you know, our partner ISV, our vertical markets. You know, in our, in our point of sale, you know, software businesses, and, and collectively, as I mentioned, they, they represent about, you know, 40% of the overall merchant solutions business and, and really contribute to the majority of the growth, you know, that, that we're seeing in, in that business. So, you know, if we start with our ISV, you know, partner business, you know, that accounts for over $1 billion in revenue. We have roughly 7,000 partners. We transcend over, over 70 different verticals. And we offer three distinctive, you know, integrated payment models, you know, to our partners.
You know, which are customized, you know, to meet the specific demands of the ISV based on the vertical that they serve or their merchant base. We complement this offering, obviously, with you know full support and services for our customers and our merchants. If we move on to our vertical software business or our own software, which we commonly refer to it as, again, you know, this business is you know over $1 billion in revenue, really has the same kind of strategy and how we go to market, very similar to our integrated you know payments business. But here we own the entirety you know of the technology stack.
Today, we own, you know, software across a number of the largest, you know, vertical markets, you know, that represent something like 50% of U.S. GDP. This includes, you know, verticals like, you know, restaurant, real estate, you know, healthcare, and education. If we move on to our POS business, you know, this business today is approaching, you know, approximately $40 million in revenue. Here, you know, we focus on markets where the mode of competition is at the point of sale, which is primarily, you know, retail and restaurant. Then, you know, finally, you know, our software business is further enhanced by our e-commerce and our omnichannel business, which we overlay across, you know, all of our businesses, our channels, you know, our geographies, and our verticals.
And then, you know, the balance of our portfolio is primarily, you know, traditional payments. And many of those businesses are located in faster growth markets, you know, where they're growing double digits, where they benefit from the really, you know, strong secular trends that we're seeing in those markets.
The clarification, you mentioned the 40%, is that, is that what you, what you're calling tech-enabled, or what is the definition of tech-enabled?
Yeah, it's a great question.
And what's the target, I guess, for?
Yeah, great question. So, you know, our technology-enabled businesses is really, you know, a key part of our overall strategy, and it's comprised of two things. It's comprised of our software business.
Yeah. That's the 40%.
The 40%, correct. It's also, you know, comprised of our e-commerce and our omnichannel business. You know, those two, those businesses collectively are growing faster than the whole, you know, more than the overall, you know, merchant solutions business. The, the mix in, in those businesses is gonna be, you know, greater, in the future than it is, it is today. Now, we haven't given any kind of, you know, target, you know, to, you know, 2024 and what that mix is gonna look like. But I would say that, you know, just given the overall, you know, underlying growth trends that we're seeing in the, in that business, that, you know, that will continue to go ahead and accrete higher and higher over time.
Okay, okay, good to know. Good to know. You know, and one of the differentiating factors you guys have is kind of you've made Global Payments. Truly global.
Sure.
Yeah, after all these years, it is actually global.
Yeah.
So as we think of the geographical breadth of your merchant business, what should we expect? As we think of the growth profile, the investment profile, you know, are you more inclined to keep going into, you know, other geographies? Say, for example, when you say LatAm and you might be in a few countries there, but you go into more.
Mm-hmm.
Or is it depth into where you already are?
Yeah, I would say it's, you know, it's really, you know, a bit of both, you know, Ashwin, and this is really consistent with our approach to our international business historically. You know, we've entered into a number of new and attractive geographies, you know, with our acquisition of EVO, you know, Poland, Greece, you know, Germany. And we've also enhanced our scale, you know, with the acquisition as well, you know, going into markets like, you know, Mexico and Spain. So look, I really think you can continue to, you know, think that, you know, continue to expect us to look at opportunities to go ahead and add scale to the business, especially, you know, in markets that have, you know, favorable long-term growth and where we can meaningfully, you know, impact the business.
But then, you know, at the same time, we'll obviously, you know, look to add some new geographies as well.
Okay, okay. So, to look to add new geographies, I mean, maybe I kind of pursue that a little bit, but, but I wanna ask you the geographies that you already have.
Sure.
Which are the most attractive and on what metric, if you will?
Yeah, sure. So look, in terms of, of the markets where we operated in before EVO, I would specifically call out, you know, Spain and Central Europe through our partnership with CaixaBank, and Erste Bank. You know, these businesses have been performing, you know, incredibly well for us, you know, both, you know, growing, you know, double digits. And then I would also mention that, you know, EVO brought us additional scale in these markets, which had been an incredible complement, you know, to these businesses in terms of, you know, EVO markets. You know, we've been really delighted, you know, with the new and attractive geographies that that EVO brought us. You know, I mentioned, you know, Poland and Greece. These businesses have been growing double digits for us. They've been performing, you know, very well.
And then separately, you know, I would highlight, you know, Latin America, you know, particularly Mexico. Now, you know, we were already in Mexico, you know, before the acquisition of EVO. But, you know, we were subscale and, you know, EVO has, you know, added to that overall presence that we have in there. In our Q4 call, we announced some new, you know, customer wins that we had in Mexico, particularly Petro -7, D Loco, and DHL. So look, we're really, you know, delighted with the added scale that we've been able to add to the Mexico market and also, you know, benefit from the strong, you know, secular trends that we're seeing in that market.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So EVO's market approach in many of these geographies was very bank partnership-centric, right? So going through a bank partnership. Is that, is that sort of the preferred approach or, you know, where I'm really trying to get to is your technology-enabled piece that seems to always be more highly penetrated in the U.S. than in those other geographies, right? So is that an opportunity or why does that lag?
Yeah, well, you know, what I would say is, you know, that many of the markets, you know, outside the U.S., you know, I think we remain in the early innings and the early stages of digital, you know, payment and software adoption. And this is why we think there is an incredible, you know, opportunity in front of us. And I think it, you know, this is really a function of the size of the economy and the maturity of the technology, you know, that's in the market. And I would, I'd also say that, you know, I think we're definitely seeing an inflection here. I think the trends that we're seeing, you know, have really began to accelerate, you know, coming out of the pandemic.
So, you know, we're excited, you know, about our, you know, our geographic distribution, and the opportunity that we, we have to go ahead and export our technology into these markets and really capitalize on some of these secular tailwinds that, that we see in these markets outside the U.S.
Okay, okay. On EVO, it is kind of going back to EVO. Questions are really simple. I mean, you know, one-year anniversary is approaching. I mean, what's the report card if you will on, on EVO and integration-wise? Did you know, what are the surprises? What got reaffirmed? And so on.
Yeah, look, you know, I'd say that, you know, overall we're delighted with, you know, you know, our acquisition of EVO. I think it's been an incredible complement to our strategy. You know, as I mentioned, it's enhanced our positions in integrated payments, B2B, and faster growth markets. But it's really kind of, you know, hard to handicap, you know, some of these integrations. You know, I think that, you know, every integration is different, but, you know, over the last 10 years, you know, we've developed a real core competency, you know, around M&A and around, you know, integrating these businesses.
We have a very seasoned team of integration, you know, professionals and, you know, which includes many of the same team members that worked on the Heartland integration, which we did in 2016, and then the TSYS acquisition, which was in 2019. So, you know, look, we have a tremendous amount of experience, you know, from the overall team. I would say that, you know, as a result, I think the integration is going incredibly well and we remain on track to go ahead and deliver on our $135 million of run-rate, you know, expense synergies. This is up from our initial target of $125 million.
And then as it relates to the revenue synergies, I think, you know, what I would say, you know, on the revenue synergies is, you know, revenue synergies, you know, typically take a longer term to materialize. But what I would say is that we're more excited today about the opportunities that we have in front of us to cross-sell our products into the EVO customer base and different geographies than we were when we initially announced the transaction. And I also just comment on some of the strong trends that we saw in many of the markets.
But from an overall product perspective, you know, we've, you know, recently, you know, integrated, you know, EVO's PayFabric software into our merchant business, which now allows us to go to market with B2B payment acceptance. And then lastly, you know, I would say that, you know, we recently announced the joint venture with Commerzbank, which we expect to launch this year. And we achieved this partnership, you know, not only because of, you know, Global Payments, you know, leadership in payment technology and commerce solutions, but also because of EVO's physical presence and merchant portfolio in Germany. So, you know, although we're kind of like still within the first year of the integration, we're making a tremendous amount of progress overall with the integration of EVO.
Right, right, right. Just a clarification, would something like that count as a synergy when you do the Commerzbank type of deal or would that you were going to do that anyway and so you're not counting that?
Well, look, I think you could count that as a revenue synergy potentially, right? Because I think it's the win was a win, you know, that was a combination of Global Payments and EVO. So.
Okay, okay, got it, got it. Yeah. Just switching gears a bit to POS. If you could, if you could kind of talk about that, that business, kind of is there a way to frame it from the perspective of sort of verticals, commerce enablement, many of the horizontal functions that come in like inventory and so on and so forth?
Yeah, sure. So, you know, today, Ashwin, you know, we offer cloud-based POS software really targeting three markets and entry-level SMB, mid-market, and enterprise. And we primarily focus on you know, retail and restaurant. And, you know, our POS solutions can easily scale from a single location to a more complex location. And our technology enables our customers to add functionality as they, you know, grow and expand their business, which really, you know, differentiates us, you know, from many of our, you know, competitors in the market.
And then what I would say more specifically, our entry-level product, which is our, you know, GP POS product, which we talked about on one of our prior calls, is really a starter solution for our SMB customers, which, you know, we offer globally through both our regional and our wholesale distribution channel. And then, you know, separately, in North America, we offer vertically specific, you know, restaurant and retail-focused POS solutions. And here we leverage, you know, our Heartland distribution channel, which focuses on, you know, customers that have two to 20 locations. And then, you know, finally there's our enterprise POS solution, which is Xenial. And we talked a little bit about some of the wins we had with that last, you know, last quarter.
Here, you know, Xenial serves today more than half of the top 50 QSRs and is in more than 100 stadiums and venues globally. On our fourth quarter call, we announced that recent win with CosMc's, which is, you know, McDonald's new restaurant concept. We launched that in December and we look forward to, you know, continuing to part with them, partner with them to roll out, you know, new solutions.
Okay, okay. GP POS, I think you'd said was going to be a 1Q.
That's right.
It's already launched.
It is launching in Q1.
Oh, it is going. Okay.
Yeah.
Okay, got it. The issue of business, maybe we could shift gears to that.
Sure.
So, you know, I and you may have mentioned in sort of the intro comments, the 50 million additional accounts on file, but maybe, you know, as when I normally think of issuer, or I think of AOF, I think of sort of the transaction side and then I think of value-added services, right? Those three pieces, maybe kind of frame it in those terms. Talk about, and that would be the traditional part of it, but then there's also the B2B part. So, you know, frame it in those two directions maybe.
Yeah, well, you know, let me start by just, you know, saying that, you know, our core issuer business, we expect to grow in the mid-single digits this year. And I think the less mature is how you kind of refer to it as, you know, as our, as our B2B or.
Less penetrated, right?
Yeah, less penetrated or is our MineralTree or our Netspend, you know, B2B business. And we expect that to grow low double digits. And so, you know, and this is embedded in our outlook. So for our total issuer segment, we expect to grow in that, you know, 5% to 6% range, you know, which we commented on our call last week.
Oh, okay, okay. But in terms of, sort of, the pipeline for AOF and things like that, is there any incremental comment that you had, you know, or an explanation that investors have been asking about with regards to?
You know, what I would say, Ashwin, is that we added over 50 million accounts on file in 2023, and we ended the year with a record number of you know traditional accounts on file with over 800 million. This growth was really driven by the ongoing execution of our conversion pipeline, as well as the healthy growth that we've been seeing from our you know FI partners. You know, this year we also executed you know 13 multi-year renewals and new customer agreements, which will help us you know deliver and continue you know that momentum in that business. I think it's worth noting that we renewed you know two of our flagship clients, you know, Capital One and Navy Federal.
And those, you know, clients have been, you know, longstanding clients for us, you know, for over decades. And we also, you know, continue to expand, you know, into new and faster growth markets, you know, including Latin America with our announced partnership with CAT, which was a joint venture between, you know, Scotiabank and Cencosud, which is the largest retailer in Chile. And then looking forward or looking ahead, in our strong pipeline of new business, you know, we have great visibility into 2025. As I mentioned at the outset, we have eight LOIs, you know, signed with institutions worldwide.
And then, you know, finally, I would just say, you know, with our partnership, you know, with some of the largest and the most well-capitalized, you know, banks, you know, in the world, you know, we continue to see really, really strong, you know, account growth there. And I think, you know, much of the account growth that they're seeing is from the regional bank crisis, you know, last year, which happened last year at about this time. And we're benefiting from that as well.
Okay, okay. And so when you sort of think of that continued growth of account on file, you know, is that the primary reason you mentioned, you know, because 50 million sounds like a like a lot of conversion. It doesn't seem like incremental, you know, share gain by certain of your clients. So from our conversion perspective, just want to clarify.
Yeah, look, I think it's our conversion pipeline number one. We had a, you know, a very robust conversion pipeline. And then I think it's the growth that we're seeing with the large FIs. We've seen a significant growth, you know, in their accounts on file, and we've been the beneficiary of that.
Okay, okay. That isn't a breakout that you can provide the X, X, or Y. Okay, got it. Got it, got it. Let's talk about the issue re-platforming, right? Because it has been going on for some time. Why does it, why is it such a lengthy process? And then, you know, where do we stand on that rollout and how does it actually enhance your offering when it's done?
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. So look, you know, our TS2 platform is, you know, one of the most, you know, feature-rich platforms, you know, out there in the market. And look, it's complicated, but taking this to the cloud. But, you know, when we do go ahead and finish, you know, taking this to the cloud, it's going to significantly, you know, enhance our total addressable market. And it's looking to allow us to go into new geographies. It's also going to allow us to go down market targeting smaller issuers in a more cost-effective way.
You know, additionally with this platform, we're going to start, you know, providing micro services, you know, for our customers and enable them to go ahead and pick and choose, you know, the capabilities that they want in the best of breed manner. So I would say, look, we've been at it for the last couple of years with monetization. It's where we're making a lot of progress. We currently have, you know, two clients in production. And we're also planning to execute, you know, dozens of cloud products or cloud pilots with, you know, existing customers across multiple regions, products, and services, you know, as we prepare for the commercial launch.
So, look, we're delighted, you know, kind of the progress that we're making this. And we think this is really going to go ahead and differentiate us in the marketplace with the best-in-class digital experiences for our customers.
Okay, okay. Maybe, you know, we could switch gears and maybe talk about profitability, margins, cash flow, things like that. Things that CFOs don't care about.
Exactly, exactly.
So, I guess the question is on your earnings. You had this comment. Yeah, and I got a lot of questions about it. It was kind of "we already have healthy margins." And it, you know, the question really is, because some investors, I think, took that to mean we're going to, you know, limit margin growth. Right? Is what's the right interpretation of that statement? "We already have healthy margins.
No, look, I think we fully expect to continue to grow margins in the business. You know, I think, you know, what we got it to in 2024 was 50 basis points of margin expansion. So we fully expect to continue to grow margins, you know, over the cycle. And, you know, if you think about it, if you break down our businesses a little bit, you know, our merchant business, you know, we're going to have 48% margins, you know, in 2024, we expect right around there. Our issuer business is 47% margins approximately. And so we'll have, you know, mid 40% margins, you know, in that business. And so, you know, we think that, you know, 50 basis points is healthy, you know, margin expansion, you know, in the business.
Yep. So that was just like an absolute statement looking at your margin saying this is healthy. It wasn't like calling the top on margins or anything like that.
No, absolutely not. No, absolutely not.
Okay, okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. So what are the puts and takes going forward? You know, because if you already have healthy margins and you know, you kind of say 50 basis points, what drives the up, up, up, up, down on that?
Yeah, well, look, I think you know margin expansion is really a balance between you know obviously expanding margins and reinvesting in the business. So you know I think you know we'll continue to go ahead and focus on you know reinvesting in the business and look to go ahead and grow margins you know at a measured and healthy pace. And you know I think you know 50 basis points of margin expansion is nothing to you know to shy away from. I think that's you know good margin growth you know in a healthy business.
Yep, yep, yep. So how do you think a sort of steady state profitability, if you will, for the company and by segment, as we go out? You know, a few years.
Yeah. So look, you know, what I would say is, what you heard, you know, Cameron is, you know, say on the earnings call, we're planning for an investor conference, you know, in the coming months. And, you know, clearly one of the topics is going to be, you know, around our cycle guidance. And, you know, this is, you know, since we're a few months away, you know, kind of the way we're thinking about it is that, you know, if you look at our 2024 outlook, you know, those underlying metrics are really probably a good indicator, you know, Ashwin, of how we're thinking about the business, you know, going forward. You know, from an overall revenue perspective, we're targeting, you know, 7%+ revenue growth, you know, ex EVO, you know, ex dispositions.
And then, you know, as we balance, you know, margin expansion, and, you know, reinvestment in the business, we're targeting, you know, as I mentioned, you know, margin expansions in the, you know, 50 basis points and kind of when you put it all together, with some nominal share, you know, repurchase, we're expecting EPS growth in the, in the 11% to 12% range, or, you know, call it, you know, in the 14%+ range, which we, we commented on the call. You know, ex dispositions. So, you know, that's kind of how we're thinking about the business, you know, you know, right now, but, you know, obviously more to come when we have our investor conference here in the coming months.
Right. Thanks. So essentially when I think of it, ex dispositions, which is sort of the right, right thing to think of because the question was about steady state.
That's right. Right. That's right.
That's really the type of total return you're thinking about is somewhere in the teens there, low teens.
That's right. All mid-teens. Yeah, low 14% +, mid-teens. Okay. Yeah, there you go.
Okay, got it, got it. And then capital allocation, you know, he just got done with large M&A and still in the process of integration, but thinking forward, what's the thought process? What are your needs? You know, what makes sense?
Yeah, what I would say is that, you know, we're, regarding capital allocation, we plan to get back to more of a balanced approach in 2024. And look, I think, you know, historically, you know, Ashwin, you know, we've been pretty good stewards of capital, you know, reinvesting in the business, both organically and returning, you know, capital to shareholders while, you know, maintaining a strong balance sheet, ample liquidity and financial, you know, flexibility. And look, I'm pleased, you know, that our board approved the increase in our share repurchase authorization of up to $2 billion. You know, share repo is one of our priorities this year. And also one of our priorities is getting back to a target leverage level of 3x.
You know, speaking of level, I'd be remiss if I, you know, call out the successful convertible bond offering we had, you know, last week where we used the majority of the proceeds to pay down our commercial paper program and replace that with low interest debt, excuse me. But from an overall, you know, M&A perspective, look, we're continuing to look, you know, at things that are in the market. We have a very robust pipeline. And look, we'll continue to look to add to our portfolio from a, you know, product, from a vertical market and from a capability standpoint.
But what I would say is that, you know, any kind of M&A that we do, it's, you know, we look at the returns and the returns against buying back our own stocks. So, you know, we're very, you know, prudent from that perspective, but, you know, we look forward to continue to return capital to shareholders and continue to maintain a very healthy and robust, you know, M&A pipeline.
Okay, okay. And just to be clear, your outlook did already contemplate the convert that you did. It was already corrected.
Yeah. So it's obviously nice to see the successful execution of that, but yeah, absolutely did.
Okay, okay. Yeah, got it, got it. You know, when you sort of, you know, try to balance out, you know, debt paydown versus share repurchase versus M&A and at a certain point, you know, this year you kind of don't necessarily need to do any more debt paydown. So how should we think of, you know, if, if M&A and growth is more of the focus, how much are you ready to like lever up if, you know, from a, you know, is it, is it the, is it the prior cycle type thing of, you know, you can go to 4, 4.5 and then bring it back down?
Now look, yes. Yeah, so let me just say this. We would never exceed the leverage point that we, that we exceeded or that we, when we bought EVO Payments, I think we were right around, you know, 3.9 x. But, but look, you know, Ashwin, it was really a function of, you know, what's available in the market. And, and, you know, and it's a balance. You know, obviously, you know, we're continuing to grow EBITDA, that's going to help us deliver, we're going to pay down debt. And then we're going to, you know, look to return capital to shareholders through, you know, share buybacks. But, you know, M&A is, is really a function of, you know, what's available in the market. And, and we look at everything.
And, you know, I think that's one, you know, muscle that we've developed, really, really well over the last decade, you know, at Global Payments. We have a very seasoned team of corporate development professionals. We have relationships with all the sponsors, you know, out there in the market with all the banks. And then we have pretty good visibility of what's, you know, coming. Which, you know, I think puts us, you know, at an advantage from an overall strategic perspective because it gives us a lot of runway to go ahead and plan, you know, for what is the right way to go ahead and augment our strategy. So we feel very, very good about a couple of things. Number one, our capital position. And number two, about our M&A pipeline and kind of how we're positioned.
We feel really good about that.
Okay, okay. Good, good. As we kind of wind down on time, last 30 seconds, any closing remarks, comments for the, for the audience?
I don't know. I, look, Ashwin, it's always, you know, great to, to attend your conference. I appreciate you having us. You had us last year and it's, it's always great to come to New York and I appreciate everybody's support of, of Global Payments.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
All right. Thank you, Ashwin.