Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us. On my left, we have Liren Chen, the CEO and President of InterDigital, and also Rich Brezski, the CFO. Thank you so much, guys, for making the time. It is not every day that you get to spend time with a company that literally touches every single aspect of our day-to-day, so it's especially exciting to have you guys. I know this is your first appearance at the J.P. Morgan TMC conference, so welcome. Because it is your first time, let us get started by giving us an overview of the business. What exactly does InterDigital do? Who are your top customers? You know, the geographic reach, things like that. Just, you know, get us started on that.
Yeah. Good afternoon, actually. Thank you for having us. My name's Liren Chen, CEO for the company. I joined the company five years ago. InterDigital as a company was founded in 1972. We are a company of 54 years old, and we focus on foundational research in wireless, video compression, and artificial intelligence foundational research. Over the multiple decades, we built some of the most important innovations that benefit the whole industry, but equally important, we built one of the largest and most valuable patent portfolio in the world. We share the technology primarily through open standard.
We have our engineer participating and over time leading some of the most important standard creation that by participating and leading the standard process, we have some of our patent technology that's adopted to be part of the standard process, and over time being widely adopted into billions and billions of devices and many, many billions of user experience over the years. Then we monetizing by licensing the patent. We take the revenue we generate from licensing back into R&D, so we can create the next generation of technology, either for wireless, video, and artificial intelligence, that just benefit the whole industry going forward. That's our business model.
That's very interesting. Who are your top customers?
Yeah. Our largest customers so far are currently in the smartphone industry. We have licensed eight of the top 10 smartphone vendors in the world. Those include Apple, Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Honor, Lenovo, and others. We have about 85% of smartphone industry under license. We also have some of the largest consumer electronic vendors, TV makers, PC makers, and also increasingly the connected car industry licensed. That's our current licensing customers.
That's incredible. 85% of the smartphone market is amazing.
Thank you.
Just going back on your point, so just walk us through the process of you inventing something, filing a patent for it, and then how does that become part of a standard package, or how does that become a standard?
Yeah. Everything in our company start with innovation. We employ some of the best engineers in the industry, and we are geographically distributed, by the way. We have, you know, 15 different sites in seven different countries. Generally speaking, they are right around major universities. We recruit some of the most brilliant, you know, Ph.D. student, where we work with them, sponsoring their research, and over time employ some of the best system engineers in the industry. We solve the most difficult problems end-to-end.
Yeah
We file patent along the way. That's only half the story. We go to open Standard Development Organization. That can be in cellular space. That's called 3GPP. That can be in the, you know, Wi-Fi space, IEEE primarily. We go to, you know, MPEG and others to driving the video standard forward. By participating to begin with, and also our engineers over multiple decades, has gained the trust over our peer company. In those Standard Development Organization, it's open, it's collaborative.
Yeah.
Very often, over time, there will be leadership role coming up, and that leadership role is selected through election. Our peer company will elect our engineer to be the chair or the co-chair or sometime vice chair of the organization. Over time, we have built an incredible amount of leadership in the SDOs. I'll give you a couple numbers. As of today, we have more than 110 leadership roles in the Standard Development Organization. As a case in point, in 3GPP, which is a Standard Development Organization that define 5G and going forward 6G, there's only 15 working groups, which means it's a dedicated group working on a certain area of technology. We are one of the three company in the world, one of the only company in the U.S. that has more than one chair.
We have two chairs of the 15 3GPP leadership role. That just demonstrate how much our engineers being respected and how our role of leading the industry is benefiting everything that come out of it. In terms of how our technology become part of the technology standard, that process is a collaborative process. What tend to happen is we will bring our technology solution to these meetings. We will demonstrate with our peer company to see why our solution is better. By better, I mean faster, more efficient, more reliable, lower delays, and hopefully convince our peers this solution offer so much technology advancement, they will adopt the technology to be part of the standard. That's really generally how it works.
We work on everything all day, everything all meeting, and over the course of multiple decades, we have built a very incredible leadership in this role.
That's incredibly interesting. Rich, I know you set out a $1 billion target for the end of the decade. Just walk us through all the different steps that you need to achieve and the targets, internal targets that you need to hit to be able to achieve that.
Yeah, our target for the end of the decade is $1 billion, or $1 billion or more.
Yeah
of ARR. We're already at about $560 million, a significant growth from the roughly $400 million that we ended two years ago at. We announced that goal in September 2024 at our investor day. Since our investor day, we've had a lot of growth in smartphone. Our smartphone ARR goal is $500 million. We're almost there now. We just had a record level of smartphone ARR in the first quarter of this year. So we're really pleased with the progress we've made there. We've also made a lot of progress over the years on consumer electronics and IoT.
Yep.
That's $200 million of the $1 billion ARR goal. Finally, the big opportunity for us is in video services, cloud and content more broadly. By 2030, our goal is to have $300 million or more of ARR from video services. Now presently we're at zero.
Yeah.
It's important to recognize that that doesn't mean that we're at the starting point, because we've already developed the technology. It's already used by all the major subscription and advertising video on demand models. Really it's now a matter of getting paid for that use.
Yeah. There's a long tail of usage that you haven't monetized yet.
That's right.
Would make sense. You talked about smartphones a little bit, and I know you already have 85% of the market share. The last super cycle was obviously 5G, and we are coming up on the cusp of 6G. Just talk us through what are some of the strategies around 6G, you know, what are the drivers that you see, how you plan to monetize that.
Yeah. If you look at our technology-wise, in our company always start with innovation. For 6G, our engineers have been working on 6G for multiple years now, and by the way, 6G is scheduled to be finalized by 2029.
Yeah
Generally speaking, widely adoption expected to be about 2030. If you look at the main pillars of 6G, you know, there's multiple of them. One is native AI, you know, building AI for the widest connectivity level, integrated sensing and together with communication, which means you build the network for 6G more than just communication network. It will be a physical sensing network because if you think about RF signal to a certain degree, just like a radar. If you build a network to be built in with sensing capability, you are merging the physical world together with the logic world for the communication network. That's a very powerful use case. We are also working on technology people are non-terrestrial based.
Basically combining cellular communication primarily with satellite communication, not just for emergency 911 paging.
Yeah
for the, you know, high-speed connectivities. Those are some of the examples our engineers have been leading, it started with fundamental research, but we have already built a fairly large patent portfolio, and we hope over time we'll be applicable to 6G. It also boil down to our leadership in the 6G Standards Development Organization, which is the 3GPP as I referred to earlier.
Yeah.
All these things will come together, and we are hoping 6G will not only unlock the smartphone use case, which we know it will, but we are enabling so much more, you know, based on connectivity, based on intelligence, and based on this immersive user experience that built in the sensings and frankly, communication together.
Makes sense. I do have a question on connected devices, but before we go there, even when 6G comes, is it true that you will continue to monetize some of the 4G, 5G innovations that you've made and, you know, companies will continue to use and deploy those technologies in their devices? Is it true that you continue to generate some sort of revenue from that long tail, like really inclusivity in the technology? There are some geographies where, you know, 6G may not appear on day 1. It'll take a few years to get there. Just talk us through all of that.
That's absolutely true, by the way. The same dynamic existing in every N to N plus G transition. If you look at it, right? We are currently already built most of the 5G-.
Yeah
Pretty much most of the device, if not all the device sold in United States are 5G enabled, right?
Yeah.
It's important to know that this phone is a 5G phone. At the same time, it's still connecting and supporting 3G and 4G, right? It's a multi-mode device. The same dynamic will happen by end of the decade when people started selling 6G phones, and that 6G phone will at the same time support 4G and 5G and maybe even a little bit 3G.
Yeah.
The reason is exactly what you have mentioned here, is a carrier would not deploy a network overnight that's supporting the latest generation technology. It take them time to deploy. When you are using your phone, particularly when you are traveling, the phone has to be supporting different generation of, you know, technology at the same time. That to us, from licensing perspective, exactly a good thing.
Yeah.
We will be licensing a multi-generation technology to them, and hopefully we will be demonstrating value to our customer to say, "Hey, with the latest generation, frankly, we are providing you even more value of what I call the IP content in the device," right? Keep in mind, the cellular connectivity just one piece. During the meantime, we are driving Wi-Fi evolution, you know, with every generation Wi-Fi that getting in. We are also driving video codec-
which itself has a similar evolution of more advanced technology being developed over time, and we are one of the few company that can put together everything together.
Yeah
into a coherent user experience that's end to end. That's the power we bring to the table.
Yeah. It's not just the infrastructure of the technology itself, it's also what you consume on the devices. Videos, for example, that you're also working on technologies for. It's very interesting.
That's absolutely true.
Yeah
on the device side, but then frankly, that's also true on the service side.
Yeah
that, you know, which I referred to earlier.
Switching gears to connected devices. You know, there are a number of devices that have, you know, inbuilt communication or, you know, sometimes now you see laptops that have the ability to put a SIM card in. You know, autonomous cars are going to be a huge thing. Recently, there was this photograph of a robo-taxi with a, you know, with a satellite device connected to it.
Yeah.
You know, there will be humanoids in the future as well. Just talk us through, you know, what you're seeing, you know, from the demand from that space and how do you plan to address that?
Yeah. Look, I think it's very fair to say that our technology has never, ever been more important. It's frankly easier for me to name the device that's not using our technology than try to name every single thing, right? Think about it. Our technology are foundational to the wireless connectivity world. It's foundational to the delivery of video capture, delivery, and decoding video end to end. Very few things that you think about that's important to you are not connected already. If they are connected, chances are they are wirelessly connected.
Yeah
Nobody want to be tethered to a wall or a socket. Most users prefer and craving immersive user experience that generally driven by video, right?
Yeah.
Not just by 2D video. Over time, it will be driven by 3D video, by surrounding video, all kind of stuff here. The human needs for more intelligent connectivity, for everything to be pieced together, for very low tolerance of latency, of delay use case.
Yeah
It is all driving the whole thing together, right? You're talking about humanoid robots. You're talking about, you know, the different use case for industrial side.
Yep.
You're talking about smart agriculture, smart manufacturing. You're talking about, frankly, satellite versus cellular versus local area connectivity. It's just enormous amount of use cases here.
is not all the use case people are deploying our technology.
Yeah.
It's simply, as we are talking today, those are the major use cases. I'm certain that we will evolve our frankly licensing model over time. There will be brand-new use cases that we frankly haven't even think about it as of now going forward that become more obvious for us.
Yeah, makes sense and very exciting. You make an innovation, you file a patent. That patent becomes part of the Standard Essential Patent that everyone is now required to use or supposed to use for the broadest reach. You know, sometimes you sign multi-year contracts, and then when the contracts end, sometimes customers, you have to renegotiate those contracts. Just talk us through, you know, how that process is. You know, sometimes when customers don't realize that they're infringing on your patents, you pursue an injunction against them, and you've won six out of the six recent injunctions, which is great because it sort of snowballs from there.
Yeah.
How do you think about, you know, using injunctions and just using the legal system as a way to, you know, enforce your patents, and then also make sure that you get a recurring revenue out of it?
The second part of the question is just talk us through the legal reputational aspects of pursuing a strategy like that.
Absolutely. That's a really complex question. Allow me to unpack it, right? To begin with, you know, how do we license our technology? We license our patent, but most important thing we are licensing patent that protect the technology that people are using. Generally speaking, in our business, we are B2B business model, okay? Our customer, generally speaking, are extraordinarily large and sophisticated vendors who knows how they are benefiting from our technology, right? I mean, literally, our largest customer company like Apple and Samsung and a number of very large smartphone makers, all the consumer electronic maker, all the service providers, we are service, I mean streaming service. They are very large companies, very often much bigger than we are, and they frankly understand how they are benefiting from our technology.
By the way, in case they don't, we spend a lot of time informing, educating, and discussing with them. Our licensing cycle, generally speaking, is fairly lengthy. We will send engineers and patent attorneys and sometimes even with outside counsel explain to them, "Here's our contribution to the industry. Here are the technologies we have created. This is our patent portfolio. By the way, let me prove it to you. Here's how our patent cover those technologies." We demonstrate to them, right? That's a somewhat lengthy process. Generally speaking, once we license a vendor, and then we license them over the term of the contract. By the way, our term of contract is roughly around five years.
Oh, wow.
We try to look for a long-term contract because it's a sweet spot of, you know, our technology is very foundational. I mean, frankly, they have been using it for a long time very often. We also want to make sure we don't sign too long or too short a contract in terms of how long you need to negotiate a contract versus how much a vendor or industry may go up and down regarding volume.
Yeah
direction wise, right. We need to find a sweet spot. Once we have done it, and generally speaking, our customers in the existing industry stay with us for a long time.
Yeah.
Our service, our Samsung agreement start with mid of 1990s, right? They have been a customer for us for like 30 plus years, right? That just means, hey, they know the benefit of our technology. Frankly, our Apple agreement started before they even shipped the very iPhone, the very first iPhone. Right? Again, in the existing industry, we are frankly well-established. As we said earlier, due to the standard sort of the layering effect, we generally speaking will demonstrate to our customers how we are adding value over time. Okay?
Yeah.
Moving to a brand-new industry, now we are frankly try to demonstrate our value and proving that the benefit to the streaming industry. We are at some stage we are not at towards zero, but we are not at the finishing line yet. A demonstration value to this, you know, industry. By the way, we have been negotiating with a major player for multiple years.
Yeah.
We did, as you mentioned earlier, file a number of patent enforcement action against Disney February of last year. As we have disclosed in our frankly litigation filings, before that, we have negotiated for multiple years. We have demonstrated to them the value of our innovation.
Yeah
contributed our engineers, how we have created the most important foundational layer that they have benefited from for multiple tens of billions dollar per year in revenue, and frankly, increasing profitability already over time. That's already done.
We couldn't get a deal done because frankly, we couldn't agree on the value of the patents. In U.S., as well as in most other jurisdictions, a patent holder needs to take the positive action to enforce his IP right for the patent to be enforceable. It's on the burden of the patent holder.
Yeah.
IP holder, generally speaking, have to demonstrate the ability to protect our IP. Okay? Which is what we have done. We are, as you mentioned here, we are asking for damages, basically means they need to pay us for the past use of the particular patent we are enforcing. We are also asking for court to issue injunction after the court has decided the patent's valid and enforceable.
Yeah
and being infringed, by the way. It's not up to us, it's up to the court to make that decision.
Yeah.
Back to your comments earlier to say, "Hey, if you're seeking injunction, do you worry about, quote-unquote, 'reputational damage?'" The answer is absolutely not. The reason being IP right is a right to protect your innovation unless other people pay a license for it. The opposite is actually true.
Yeah, yeah.
If I'm a valuable IP holder, I keep on seeking for my IP right without ability to defend it, then frankly, over long period of time, your business is not sustainable. You, as a valuable IP holder, you have to do it, but that's the only way for us in that particular instance to get a deal done properly and also to be fair to other paying customer over time, right? One last comment I'll add. It's not lost on me that company like Disney is a IP company itself. If you think about the value of Disney, even though it's much, much bigger than we are, which by the way, have enormous respect for Disney. Currently, Disney is enforcing its IP right against other AI companies. If you do a search for, you will find it.
If you dig a little bit deeper, you will notice Disney is asking for money damages as well as injunction against AI company for their IP right. Okay? That just means having the protection of IP is really important to their business, and being able to enforce IP for damages and injunctions are absolutely normal course of business for IP-centric company.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. Switching gears, I had the investment banking version of vibe coding. I've spent the last week just talking to ChatGPT, just trying to understand how, you know, video compression works in the traditional systems. What you've done with, you know, the AI-based video compression is actually really interesting. Can you just give us an overview of, you know, how does the technology work, and what do you see as opportunity in that space? Maybe it's a question for you as well, Rich. You mentioned that there's a lot of revenue opportunity there, just talk us through that as well.
Yeah. First of all, we as a company are huge believer for AI. We have been working on AI for multiple decades, and we are one of the very few company in the world who has deep expert in video, wireless, and AI technology, and the power of combining them is enormous. Okay. It's enormous. In terms of research-wise, we are focused on several different things here. We are focused on applying AI into wireless system and make the network more intelligent from ground up. As I said earlier, you know, 6G, one of the main pillar for 6G research is native AI built-in.
Yeah.
That's just one example for it. We are frankly in the same time applying AI technology into video codec. On that note here, we have acquired a startup company that's based in London, it is company called Deep Render, where they have worked on some software solution that try to compress video codec, video signals into something much, much smaller and more intelligent using AI that's different from traditional codec. The reason we acquired them is their current technology, honestly speaking, has too much complexity-
Yeah
It's still a proprietary solution. What we try to do is work with the engineering team to simplify the solution and ideally enable some of the solution into the next generation of video codec standard. By doing standardize, we are enabling AI video codec to a much broader audience. We are not guaranteed to be successful.
Yeah
We are trying really hard, right? That's only half the puzzle. The other half the puzzle is we are redesign the wireless system as a video codec for AI use case. Let me give you a couple examples, right? Traditional wireless system, particular cellular system, is built to support much more download traffic than uploading traffic. Downloading traffic just means you are browsing the internet, you are watching YouTube videos. Most of the traffic is downloaded from network to you. When people have deployed currently the Edge AI, the Physical AI, once they get wider adoption, the traffic will be shaped differently.
There'll be much more uploading traffic as you are doing, you know, real-time training, you are doing inference among others with the AI distributed model. Our engineers are working with our peer company to reshape the network architecture to allocate more resource on uplink traffic for the next generation. That just making the network overall more adaptive for the machine-driven traffic pattern than people-driven traffic pattern, right? That's a part of the network research we are doing really active on. The other real interesting research we are currently doing is to create a brand-new codec that's for machine use. Currently, most our research are doing is creating a next-generation codec, but the assumption was a human being will be the user for the codec, right? For us to watch the video. A human being has our limitations, right?
We have how many frame we can detect, or so how many color we can tell, or a certain, you know, spectrum of the light we simply couldn't be able to read. Once you remove human from the interface, from the part of the system, you can design the whole machine video codec much more effectively and much more efficiently, and that has very important use case.
Yeah.
Such as autonomous vehicle driving, right? If you are having car with multiple camera look at the road, the processor for that video signal is not the driver anymore. It's actually the computer system. By redesign the codec, we can make this whole codec for AI use case a lot more effectively. As you can tell, there's actually multiple angles for how we are applying AI to solve wireless.
Yeah
video problem. We also redesign the video and wireless system better for AI machine as part of the key user in that system. Our engineers doing frankly both.
Yeah, there's immense opportunity both in video streaming as well as, you know, autonomous driving, as you said.
Yes. That's it.
These are all streams that are not, you know, fully monetized today, and there's a massive opportunity to monetize that in the future.
That's right.
You're one of the world's, you know, 100 most innovative companies consistently across all benchmarks. You have a 40,000-plus IP portfolio. I read somewhere that you file, like, seven patents a day on an average. You know, what are some, you know, how do you balance quality versus, you know, which projects to prioritize on? How do you identify, okay, this problem is going to be really fundamental, and this is what we should be working on? Like, how does the prioritization framework operate?
Yeah. First off, we are extraordinarily proud of our innovation, quality, and heritage. What you're referring to is there's this leading research company, in fact, they are specializing in writing IP portfolio, this company called LexisNexis. They have published a annual report that ranking all the company in the world, not by industry, not by even United States, all the company in the world. They have ranked us consistently top 100 most innovative company in the world five years in a row. The reason we are only ranked five years in a row for that research is they only publish that report for five years, okay? We basically have been ranked from day one they publish the report every single year, and they specifically comment on the quality of our innovation and in the future applicability of our IP portfolio.
That is a quality research.
Yeah.
It's not just by number patent, right?
Yeah.
In the meantime, number matters, okay. I'm not saying number doesn't matter. As you also mentioned here, every single day on average, we get seven new patent granted to us. Every single day, including weekends, right. We have a very robust innovation, and then we keep on adding to it. Back to your question, how do we make sure the quality of our patents over time become even stronger? Again, back to a few things here. We wanna make sure we have the best people. One thing I didn't mention so far yet, which is super important, is we are a company of inventors, right. We are not gigantic by head count, but we try to attract some of the best people in the world. We open and operate research into primarily around major universities. We attract the best PhD student.
We, over time, build one of the most advanced research team in the world. Occupy sheer size-wise, I believe we are the largest pure research company in the world, one thing that's really separates us from any other company is 90-plus % are engineers and scientists and inventors. Think of us as doing only groundbreaking research work, right? In most other company, that percentage is in single-digit %, in 1%, maybe 3%, we are 90-plus %. That's first thing. Second thing is really we only work on the most difficult problem in the system level. We are not trying to repeat because our product is IP. It's intellectual property. It's patent. You can only get a patent by solving a problem that has never been solved before. We are not interested in repeating other people's solution. We are interested in doing groundbreaking work.
Thirdly, which is really important to know, is despite most people's perception, innovation is a team sport.
Yeah.
We actually build project. We have some of the most brilliant people working together. We challenge each other. We make sure they bring their expertise, sometimes in different domain field, by the way. As I referred to earlier, we want the wireless people to work with AI expert. We want the AI expert to work with video people. We want the video people to work with wireless. By pushing those experts to work together, very often we can find the best solution end to end, and then hopefully we don't drop the ball by patenting our innovation as we create the innovation.
Yeah.
All this stuff coming together give us the best chance of building a valuable patent portfolio.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Rich, the business seems to be firing on all cylinders. You're consistently growing double-digit. You know, despite managing a machine of innovation and researchers, you're doing it very efficiently as well. You know, the business generated more than $500 million of free cash. There was also a big uptick in the EBITDA margin. Just talk us through the drivers there and how do you see that trending in the future?
Yeah, that's right. One thing I love about the business is we make these long-term investments, right? The long-term investments in research. When we hit on those investments, it means that, as I described before, it's gonna be massively adopted. When we get licensing revenue from the use of our technology, it generally with few exceptions, it comes in with basically 100% gross margin. As you're growing the top line, you have even higher growth on your profit margin, because why is that? We've made that investment in the past or, you know, five or more years ago oftentimes.
Yeah.
Now when somebody's already using my technology and I license them, there's no additional cost.
Yeah.
I'm just bringing in the revenue, getting paid for what they were already using.
Okay. Got it. In many ways that's also revenue diversification slash you're already working on the next problem. All the investment that you're making currently are sort of, you know, revenue that you will see in the next few years.
That's right.
Yeah. Makes sense. You've also paid down debt. You continue to return, you know, immense amount of capital to shareholders, about $800 million. You've reduced your share count by about 15%, 16% in the last five years. How do you think about just, you know, capital returns, shareholder distribution, you know, deploying capital towards organic versus inorganic?
Yeah.
'Cause you are sitting on a big amount, you know, big balance of about $1 billion of cash.
That's right, and for us, cash is a strategic asset.
Yeah.
We are so excited about the opportunities that we have. The number one thing that I think about is making sure that we do everything we can to achieve that so it is not opportunity, it becomes reality.
Yeah.
Right. As Liren mentioned, we do have to enforce our rights against, you know, very large companies that use our technology from time to time, and having a strong balance sheet is important in that regard.
Yeah.
Having said that, we do generate a lot of cash, as you noted, and we wanna be good stewards of that capital and return that capital to shareholders, and that's resulted in, you know, $800 million return of cash over the last five years.
Okay. Let me just take a quick pause and see if, you know, anyone in the audience has any questions.
Hi. I was just wondering if we could maybe touch on the streaming side of things, specifically any updates on the Disney and Amazon fronts.
Yeah. As I said earlier, we believe we have created some of the most valuable technology that enable the whole industry, including Disney and Amazon. We have negotiated for multiple years and try to get to a frankly a deal that's fair to both parties. So far we have not been able to reach a deal, we are continuing to negotiate. In the meantime, we have filed a multi-jurisdictional enforcement for patents against Disney February of last year, a number of the patent has gone to trial, so far there's five patents gone to trial, two in Brazil and three in Germany.
Of the cases that have been decided, we have win on all of them, right? The court has decided our patent are being infringed, The court in all those five cases had ordered either preliminary injunction or injunction against them. We are in the process of enforcing them. In the meantime, though, there's also a number of other patents that are coming to trial, right? That can be in Germany, We also have patents that gone through the first hearing in UPC. It's a Unified Patent Court that apply to multiple countries, up to 18 countries in Europe. We have frankly a number of patent coming to trial in U.S. that's currently scheduled for February of next year.
Again, as I said earlier, I'm very happy with the quality of portfolio, and we are very pleased of the progress we have made so far. As I also said earlier, litigation is not our end goal. Litigation and frankly enforcement is part of our campaign to get a deal done in this case. We are hopeful that we can get a deal done that reflect the value our portfolio. If you look at our history as a company, streaming industry is relatively new for us. In other cases, when we enforce our patents, we always end up getting a deal done, right, in different industry that we have done before. The Amazon litigation, it's a bit different. Amazon actually litigate against us first. We had a small licensing deal on the device side last year.
Amazon litigate against us before that deal expired. We basically are responding to their litigation. They sued us in September, if I remember right, and we countersued in November of last year. Relatively speaking, timeline-wise, this case a little bit behind the Disney.
Anyone else? Okay. Thank you so much, Liren and Rich. Any final thoughts, messages that you would like the audience to take away and investors in general to take away with them?
Look, we are very excited about the opportunity.
Yeah.
Thank you for having us. We love to engage with, you know, investors but end of the day here, I feel very strong about our position. Our value to the industry have been demonstrated over and over and over again, and I feel good about where we are, and we'll keep on asking.
Sounds amazing. Thank you. On behalf of the entire J.P. Morgan team, thank you so much again.
Absolutely.
Thank you.