Hi, I'm John Sarver, one of the life sciences analysts here at UBS. Final day of the 2023 UBS Life Sciences Conference here, kicking off the life science portion here with a fireside chat with Illumina. Joining us today is Salli Schwartz, VP of Investor Relations. Salli, thanks for joining us.
No, thank you for having me.
you know, you guys recently reported 2Q earnings last week, but maybe just start off with a recap and, you know, the lower guidance. You know, there's certainly been larger macro issues throughout the, the life sciences industry, but maybe some of. the puts and takes on China, slower than expected next NovaSeq X ramp, and just some of the general budget pressures across customers.
Sure, maybe just as a quick recap, we previously had guidance for Core Illumina growing 6%-9%, a range of 6%-9% for 2023. We lowered that guidance to flat, approximately flat for the year. Obviously, meaningful takedown, which is frustrating, but temporary in a lot of the drivers. You mentioned some of the drivers. Just to put some numbers around them, about 25% of the variance is related to China, and I'm sure you've seen other companies as well. We've, we've had our own challenges there. We had anticipated a recovery in the back half of the year in China from a macro perspective, and that's just not happened. Certainly that's been a negative to our growth for the year.
In addition to that, and something more specific to us, we've seen a more competitive landscape there. More steeply discounted pricing coming from, you know, our primary competitor, and that's also created a lower win rate on our part, and that's been something else that's been a negative, so about 25% from China. Of the other 75%, it's roughly evenly split between the two other factors that you mentioned, John. Transition to NovaSeq X has been going really well. Lots of demand, lots of placements that we've put in the market. On the flip side, that's led to some of our customers bleeding down their 6,000 NovaSeq 6000 consumables faster than we had anticipated.
It's also allowed us to see earlier on some of the technical issues that you typically run into once you roll out a new instrument, and getting out to all of our customers and, and fixing those issues has taken longer. Not a negative necessarily, but a push out of some of the consumables purchases than what we had originally anticipated, as well as a faster bleed down. Then the final piece is really very macro-related. You know, despite some hopefully positive signs in, in macro data out there in the world, Walmart certainly doing better with what it's seeing from its consumers. You know, some, some positive retail sales, some positives on inflation, some hopeful things around the Fed and other central banks.
Our customers are being really careful and cautious with their purchasing. We've seen that play out in terms of just longer time to get to purchases, more cautious spending, more disciplined expense management, and that's certainly been a, a hit to what we thought would be a bit of a recovery in the second half of the year. Across those three, takedown this year, you know, we are still very excited about what's ahead of us in terms of the ramp-up, starting in the fourth quarter with consumables on the X in particular.
Thanks. I did want to mention we do have an iPad here. If you have questions in the room, there's a QR code. We can take them up here, on this. Thanks for the overview on, on the macro situation there in 2Q. You know, looking into the NovaSeq X launch, you know, demand still remains strong there. Guidance was raised on, on place splits for the year. Could you just provide a little color on the breakdown of the next cohort of orders you've seen come in, I guess, you know, since 1Q or since 2Q, and just a breakdown of where those customers are coming from. Maybe w- how many of those are new to high-throughput or new to, to Illumina, and how we think about that?
Yeah. No, it's, it's, we said we would give updates on orders once a quarter, so the last update we gave was during the second quarter earnings. We said we had received cumulatively about 260 orders, so that's roughly about 60 coming in in the second quarter. We've continued to see about 40% of the orders come from clinical customers, which is different than what we've seen in past rollouts, especially the NovaSeq 6000 on the high-throughput side. More early interest from that customer base, which is, which is really, exciting to see because their purchasing in X is not, at this point, to replace, the work that they're doing, maybe on the 6000, but rather incremental, to build a new test or, you know, a new process.
So that's, that's additive to what we've already got going on with the NovaSeq 6000. In terms of new to high-throughput or new to Illumina, we had talked in the first quarter about roughly 15% of the orders being customers again, that are either new to Illumina or new to high-throughput. Some of the new to Illumina has come from the capabilities that the NovaSeq X has around ambient shipping. We've been able to ship consumables now without all the dry ice and the packaging and the boxes and everything that we've historically had to use. While that may not seem like a big deal, it's a huge deal to our customers, and it's opened up some new geographies and new customers that we haven't been able to access before.
We've continued to see good uptake and some new names, and also some customers taking this opportunity to move. up the spectrum from mid-throughput to high-throughput.
Thanks. I guess this is one point you mentioned there on just the ambient shipping. It sounds like that's, you know, opening up new geographies, just additional color there and maybe what geographies are now, you know, coming online for sequencing?
Yeah. So we've had... I think we had last put some numbers out there, you know, 35 or so different countries that we're selling into. Now, and that's just early days so far. You think of more far-flung regions of the world, more emerging markets, where maybe cold chain is, is not a given, and you had to be more careful about, you know, being able to not have consumables arrive that you'd immediately have to throw away because they had expired.
Those are the sort of markets that we're seeing come online, and we're seeing more discussions come from those countries as well. I think.
certainly the process of COVID, if I could call it that, that we all went through, has risen the, the visibility of, of, genomics as a, an interesting opportunity for, for healthcare broadly.
Thanks. You know, I think now it's been about two quarters, instruments in the field. You know, just what's been the initial feedback you've had from users? You know, any learnings, updates, how, how, what's been the feedback there?
Yeah, and it's very, very positive feedback and enthusiasm, which is exciting, because we could all use some enthusiasm for what's possible. We, we've had a, a number of open discussions. I mean, if you think back to our Illumina Genomics Forum in the fall, where we tried to facilitate just a gathering of industry folks to, to really work with each other and, and push things forward, not just for Illumina, but more broadly for the industry.
That's continued, and we've continued to facilitate those conversations, so a lot of excitement for what's possible here. I would say in terms of learnings, one thing that's been interesting in this rollout, I, I referenced a little bit earlier, we've rolled out more X's faster and to more places than we've done any launch before.
That's great, except it also means, it's a lot more challenging. It takes a little bit more time to work through, the, the support you need to provide your customers as they continue to bring these instruments online. That's part of as we talked about, why guidance is coming out a little bit. It's taking longer to get to everybody to make sure they're ready to plow ahead with their work. You know, feedback so far has been pretty phenomenal.
Thanks. You know, that kind of leads to the next question, just, you know, maybe that slower rollout of the NovaSeq X that was highlighted in the earnings call. Just any color on how through, through this tracking and maybe even versus ex- internal expectations, how do you expect this to ramp, you know, as the instruments go online?
Yeah, it's, it's really early. I know when we, when we initially launched the X, we talked about, call it, six or eight quarters to just get some stability, because if you think of what pull-through is, it's consumables purchases as the numerator and the install base as the denominator. Currently, with the installed base growing very rapidly, consumables purchases, you know, we've had some so far, and we've had the 10B flow cell available.
The 25B flow cell becomes available, we'll have more. We're starting to, to see the beginnings of this ramp here, especially as we get to the fourth quarter. It's very early, and so that number's moving around a lot. We'll, we'll give you an outlook on it as soon as we can get a little bit more stability there.
Just, can you remind us on the 25B flow cell, you know, when you expect that to come online, start shipping there?
Yeah, fourth quarter, so very highly anticipated by our customers. All eyes internally on, on getting that out the door and, and delivering on the full promise of what the NovaSeq X can do.
It sounds like, you know, some of the NovaSeq X users still are using their NovaSeq 6000s. Just, I guess, how do we think about, you know, the replacement ratio and upgrade cycle for the 6000 now that you're starting to place NovaSeq X?
Yeah. Well, we have, call it, 1,000 or so NovaSeq 6000 customers, for that 1,000 customer base, about 750 of them only have 1 NovaSeq 6000. For them, it's, it's a binary choice. They're either gonna buy an extra or they won't.
We think over time, everybody will replace their 6000s. You can't buy half an instrument or a third an instrument, so it's, it's one or nothing, or more. Then for the other 250 customers who have multiple instruments, we've already seen a number of multi-unit purchases. About 20% of the orders have been multi-unit purchases, which is more or less keeping pace with the 25% of the customer base that has multiple units.
One other thing on that, Will, we've started to see, and this is part of why we have some confidence in the order book going forward, some of those initial customers that got early instruments come back around again and place, follow-on orders, which is great.
I guess just, you know, similarly on the, the NovaSeq 6000, you know, I think there's some pull-through. There's some macro headwinds here with pull-through over the near term, but, you know, how do we think about that tracking then, you know, as you start to see those replacements come in for the NovaSeq X?
Yeah. It's gonna come down, and the same that we've experienced with prior transitions from one instrument to the next, and like you said, we already brought down the average pull-through for the NovaSeq 6000 to a $800,000-$900,000 range in this recent earnings call. We've seen that come down faster than we expected to this year, which is one of the reasons we brought that down. Also one of the reasons why guidance has come, come down a bit.
You know, more on the research side, as customers, you know, look to really pick up work and move it over and then accelerate from there. Clinical side will hold on longer with the NovaSeq 6000. They have tests and processes that are already validated, and those just take a lot more effort to move.
you know, just maybe one more here on the, on the NovaSeq X question from the audience, but, you know, placements, you know, being strong, I guess you have the, the new flow cell hitting in the fourth quarter. You know, is there samples there? I guess, you know, when do you see this, you know, catalyst happening, where the pull-through starts to increase? Maybe even if you look at previous launch cycles, how, how this could play out.
Yeah, we expect to start to see it in the fourth quarter. You know, the availability of that flow cell, we've worked through instruments getting ready to come online, and we're really starting to see some, some, some takeoff points.
Now there's hopefully some little bit of budget flush, and then I don't want to overstate that, but I think it's, you know, every little bit helps. Fourth quarter is when we expect to see, and you can see that in our guidance, a, a start of a ramp.
Actually, you know, one more here. You know, some of your customers on the, you know, liquid biopsy side are saying they're starting to switch to the NovaSeq X. You know, I guess, how do you see this impacting, you know, adoption, pull-through revenue, you know, on, on that as well?
There are some very exciting areas, and I think this is, you know, part of what I mentioned earlier was the customer excitement. You know, as you listen to a number of our peers and our customers, mentions of, you know, liquid biopsy and all the, the, the things that could get done, the promise there, and just the ease of use relative to tissue samples, to collect, you know, on the collection front. That's, that's very exciting. MRD is another area that pops up in a lot of, you know, customer discussions around what they wanna get done or what they're building into. You know, you've seen this morning, more news on the single-cell side, and there's a lot of, a lot of movement, broadly across this space.
If we could get a better economic sentiment to support it, you know, I think there's, there's a ton of opportunity here.
Great. You know, let's move on to mid-throughput, you know, the NextSeq. I guess, you know, are you seeing a, a lengthening of the sales cycle there on, on the mid-throughput, just given some of the budgets? You know, is any of this also due to some of the increased competition that could be coming to the market?
Yes, on both. I think the, on the mid-throughput side, you know, I mentioned earlier, these cautious purchasing decisions, it's taking people longer to make commitments, and it's taking them longer internally to work through approvals and, and budget processes that they might have. I mean, that's, that's, you know, true, true even at Illumina. It's that part makes sense on the macro side. Competition as well, I think procurement part- departments, generally speaking, like to look at options, if there are options, and evaluate them. We've been tracking, you know, very closely our win rate. We mentioned during the second quarter earnings call, our win rate across mid-throughput actually accelerated in the second quarter versus the first quarter this year. It might take longer, but ultimately, we're still doing quite well.
I guess just, can you also remind us, maybe even if think about it, just the NextSeq and mid-throughput, you know, some of the pressures there and how that's impacting, you know, customer budgets and consumables for the guidance for this year?
Yeah. We, we, we've taken down, excuse me, our NextSeq 550 pull-through figure, our average pull-through figure. It was $150,000, excuse me, a $100,000-$150,000 range, and we pulled it down to $80,000-$130,000. That has come down. Part of that's China, part of it is just, there's not the COVID surveillance-driven demand that we had historically seen. On the 1K, 2K, the NextSeq 1K, 2K, though, we held the pull-through range to, it's $120,000-$170,000. That's continued to stand up well, despite the fact that the increase, or despite the increases in the installed base, so the denominator continues to move up. We had 8% growth in the second quarter in NextSeq 1K, 2K.
Despite that, the pull-through is holding up nicely. We were toward the lower end of that range in the second quarter, though.
Thanks. You know, the company's talked about bringing the XLEAP chemistry to the NextSeq next year. Just any thoughts or color on that and how that upgrade cycle could look?
Yeah, that's. No need to buy a new instrument, so that's good. You can use your existing NextSeq 1000, 2000, but you will have the ability to effectively download, I'll, I'll, I'll call it, you know, the Chemistry X and have some of the capabilities that the NovaSeq X offers customers. There's a lot of excitement around that. I do think that's driven some of the sales that we've seen. In addition to Chemistry X, just some of the other offerings that NextSeq 1000, 2000 is unique in providing customers, a DRAGEN on board with the informatics and the analytics capabilities is something that our customers have been looking for, and, and we're delivering on as part of our broader value proposition.
We expect to continue to see a nice backlog there and, and strong purchases, and the rollout of Chemistry X on the NextSeq 1K, 2K is first half of next year.
Thanks. You, that, you kind of touched on a little bit, but I guess, you go back to the, the NovaSeq X launch and the six K, you saw a little bit of change, maybe some pause in the ordering patterns there, but this is more of a upgrade than a brand new instrument, so it sounds like you're not anticipating any shift or changes in, in backlog from what you see right now?
No. Well, I mean, we may see people, bleed down or, or run down some of their consumables to be able to switch over to the new consumables.
Mm-hmm.
They don't have to switch the instruments, and so that's a, a, a more contained transition, I'll say.
You know, maybe switching now to, to margins. You know, the company's announced some cost savings plans. Just how do we think about the different components there and maybe even an R&D run rate now with the, the cuts you're making?
Yeah. The, the expense cuts, I mean, we're doing the same thing a lot of our customers are doing. It's in the sort of environment where you, it's prudent to do such things. The way we approached the expense cuts was to look at projects or initiatives that either could be downsized, could be delayed, or just didn't, you know, perhaps make the cut to get done. Then looked across the functions to be able to say: All right, well, what does that mean we don't have to spend? That's translated to headcount reductions, in some cases, and you saw, you saw us announce a few of those over the last, you know, year. Other costs around vendor spend, travel, you know, and so forth, that are associated with those initiatives.
One big piece that we're still working through is on the real estate side. We've relooked our global real estate footprint. We've been rationalizing what we have, and we'll have more announcements there just in terms of amounts and the impact to the PNL as we get those things done. It's been pretty broad based, including R&D. R&D, though, remains a key point of commitment for the company. You know, we're an innovation-oriented company. I know a lot of companies say that, but that has been the hallmark of what we do and who we are, and it has allowed us to drive the industry forward.
I think you will still see significant dollars going to R&D and growth in that budget, but we've got to, we've got to be disciplined about the spend, which is something we're, you know, we're pushing hard to do as well.
You know, the Investor Day last fall, you gave some targets on both margins and, and for, for Illumina revenue growth. On the earnings call, you reiterated that 25%, margin, target. I guess, you know, how do you view the achievability of that target? Then maybe long term, you know, where are the opportunities where you, you think you can see op advantages on margins going forward?
Yeah. I know Joydeep mentioned, referred to it as a, you know, more of a stretch, and I, I think that, I mean, that makes sense. By definition, before we had 300 basis points of a gap from 22- 25 to, to cover off, now we've got 500 basis points. Purely from a numbers perspective, you know, that's, that's 100% true. We do have multiple levers to work at, and we're pulling on all of them. On the OpEx side, we talked about that, and we see further opportunities to continue to fine-tune our, our OpEx spend. On the gross margin side, there are opportunities that should translate as, as revenue turns, and then also proactive things we're doing to manage the gross margin.
On the first part, as we cover off more of our manufacturing cost base, as we're ramping up the production of the X and all the consumables, that go along with it, we're able to cover more of that fixed cost base, and that certainly helps the gross margin. It's been one of the reasons why the gross margin is, is lighter this year. Then on top of that, as we ramp further into the consumables purchases, those are higher margin revenue. So we should see a mix shift back towards higher margin revenue, which will also benefit the gross margin, in addition to the actions that we're taking to continue to proactively manage down the costs that fit within, you know, our cost of goods sold.
Lots of pieces there, and, and lots of things to do to get that moved back up again. Then obviously, the top line. I think we're gonna need to work through the rest of this year, see how the ramp takes shape, see where we are as we go into next year with the broader macro environment and customer sentiment. Again, that's, that's what we're-- that's what we're working towards, is the 25% for next year, and then accelerating beyond that. As a company, we've been sort of in that 25%-30% range historically, and we think structurally, that's a, a very reasonable place for us to be going forward.
I guess, you know, similarly, on the, the top line part of that guidance, the mid-teens growth, I think China is about 10% of your revenues. You know, obviously, there's macro issues there, but also there's been increased competition, maybe some pricing. I guess, when you put all these factors in play and the, the NovaSeq X launch, X Leap on mid-throughput, how, how do you think about then the, that ramp, just on the, the Core Illumina to get to that mid-teens growth from where we are here?
Yeah. I mean, the mid-teens still makes sense to us as the long-term structural growth of the company. When you look at it, all the things we presented at Investor Day around the target addressable markets and, and the size of those giant markets that are largely un, you know, unpenetrated or very lightly penetrated, there's opportunities to really accelerate into a number of different places. I seriously doubt it will be entirely linear, but, but we've certainly putting in place all of the pieces to enable continued reimbursement, continued adoption, you know, continued awareness amongst physicians and patients alike, to be able to understand what, what genomics could do for them and the, the, sort of the power of sequencing generally.
The analysis that Joydeep walked through at, at Investor Day, also for elasticity, is another place that we see continued possibility, where it's not just about, we have to go find more samples. Sure, that, that will help. We also are seeing increased interest in taking those samples through multiple different analyses, and you hear a lot from different pieces of multiomics from across our customer base and us. Lots of different analyses that can get done. Data, you know, we're seeing some of our customers start to say, "I'm not gonna just do whole exomes, I'm gonna do whole genomes," or, "I'm gonna expand these panels. We're doing bigger panels now." "Forget about panels, we're gonna go straight to, you know, CGP." Or liquid biopsy, you mentioned. It's more intensive on the sequencing side.
All these things point to more elasticity, more use of the firepower that we've created, more enablement by the lower price point, so.
I guess just on that point, you know, liquid biopsy in, in clinical markets, just any additional color you can see there on just, you know, how these markets are coming online and how these could add to the, the long-term growth there?
Yeah. The clinical side has been hard to get to get prepped to serve. It's not something you just decide to do overnight and start calling on clinical customers, and you're good to go. The transformation that the company's had to undertake in order to be prepared to really service those customers has taken years and quite a bit of investment. But we are very well positioned to now to be accessing that whole customer base. We see the clinical markets as bigger and faster-growing than research. So for us, it made perfect sense over the long term to be able to have access to those broader markets, and take advantage of the growth opportunities there. There's a nice feedback loop between research and clinical that we're certainly trying to fuel as well.
I, I guess, you know, while we're talking on clinical, just any updates or feedback on the NovaSeq 6000Dx launch? I think China might have been a big market for that, so, any impact there and just color you can provide.
Yeah. The NovaSeq 6000Dx has had a nice rollout. China was one piece, and, you know, certainly that's had some points of success and then other challenges, like we were discussing. Europe has actually been a really important market, just broadly. Lots of specific countries there that have rules or requirements that the Dx helps serve. We've had a pretty nice rollout on that front and, you know, we'll continue to selectively pick spots where we have Dx instruments for those customers who need those specifically.
You know, one, one area just wanted to touch on. You know, there was a SEC investigation listed in the 10-Q that came out post the earnings call. You know, is, is the company providing just any comment on that? Or just more broadly, any update on the various GRAIL investigations and timing on those?
Sure. On the SEC, it's not a whole lot to add to our disclosure in the 10-Q. It's very early, we received a letter in July requesting various documents, and we're cooperating with the SEC to provide all the things that they've asked for. I think we would observe that given what we've been through as a company, a very, you know, public proxy fight, you know, an ongoing regulatory discussions, I'll say, going on in multiple different countries, and then the departure of our CEO earlier this year. All of those things draw a lot of attention to, you know, what's going on with the company, and I think the SEC, you know, looking to understand all the moving parts.
We'll have more to say over time, but for right now, pretty early. On GRAIL, I won't call them investigations, but with regard to the ongoing GRAIL processes, we'll say, in the US, we have, we have the appeal that we, we now got in the Fifth Circuit Court in the U.S. We're expecting to get a decision from them by the end of this year. We should know at that point, whether we've been supported in progressing with the acquisition or whether we have to divest, at least according to the U.S. In the EU, we have a juri-- We're paying the most attention to a jurisdictional appeal that we have underway at the EU Court of Justice, like the Supreme Court, in the EU.
We're supposed to get a decision there either later this year or early next year. This is specifically on whether the EU had the jurisdiction to even review the transaction in the first place. If we win that appeal, then the fine that you've probably read about, that we, we recently, you know, had assigned to us, that goes away. That's EUR 432 million, which would go away, which is obviously, you know, something we're critically focused on. Also importantly, we wouldn't have to divest if we were going to, in accordance with any divestment order, we would be able to do a bit more flexibility in terms of what we do from there. In terms of a decision tree, if we lose one or both of these appeals, we'll be divesting.
We're not gonna pursue anything any further at that point, in terms of further appeals on our part. If we win both of them, then we have a decision to make. Either we are going to keep the asset, in some form or fashion, or we're going to divest, even though we could keep it. So our board is committed, as is our management team, to relooking the asset if we get to that point, and making a decision based on looking forward, what the business case is and the value that could be accrued, and if it's in the best interest of shareholders, we'll finish the deal, and if it isn't, then we won't, and we'll divest. One last piece on this, I know it's a lot of moving parts. We're waiting still on a divestment order from the European Commission.
Hopefully, we'll receive it this quarter. We assume maybe September, since August is more of a summer break. That will allow us to then start progressing with the divestment and start running down, hopefully different paths to see what's possible in the markets and with potential buyers. We're prepared to get moving as soon as we receive that.
Thanks. maybe back to Core Illumina here, a couple more questions. Just I guess maybe start off, you know, long-read market. just, you know, how often does that come up in the conversations? You know, how do you see the short-read, long-read dynamics play out?
Not as often in the conversations, I would say, but, but, you know, an important part of the market. We see these two, short-read and long-read, as very complementary to one another. Short-read addresses most use cases and at a price point that's unparalleled by long-read by quite a bit, as you know, I'm sure. Long-read is important as a, as an offering, certainly in, in niche or, or certain areas where it just, it makes sense to use. What we're working on is, a long-read offering of our own that would be available on our existing instruments. You wouldn't need. to go buy another instrument. You'd be able to use, what, what we're rolling out on our, on our instruments for what you need it for, and, and only that.
We had 1 offering that we rolled out in, we announced in March of this year. We started to roll out in May. We'll have an enrichment assay that we're coming out with very soon, and that, coupled with the 25B flow cell on the NovaSeq X, gets you to a $600, you know, total genome with long-read. That's very exciting for some of our customers. We've got more than 40 of them right now that are doing evaluations and initial work, and, so far pretty encouraging on that front. Our aim is whatever our customers need, we want to be able to deliver it on our instruments.
Whether it's front-end ease of use and easier sample prep, especially for clinical customers, or whether it's, you know, back-end informatics, analytics, data storage, data, you know, lossless compression, and all the data management tools that we increasingly need. Whether it's long-read, we want to be able to. You don't have to go buy new instruments or new tools for all these things. It's all built into our systems.
Thanks, and, you know, appreciate that. On, on, I think 40 customers, you said, with the, the Complete Long Read. Just any additional, you know, feedback there from those customers that have started to receive the, the kit since, since May? You know, how do you think about just the broader opportunity and customer set that's out there for these products?
Early good feedback. Obviously, this, this initial product is not the full, the full enrichment assay and the 25B flow, those are coming. We expect the enthusiasm to ramp on this. I, I think it's, it's an incremental offering, we don't see, generally speaking, long-read as a replacement to short-read, again, more as a complement. It'll be a nice revenue addition, again, more of a complement than a replacement.
Thanks. I guess, you know, there's quite a few population sequencing programs out there. You know, I don't think it came up on the earnings call, but have you seen any of the, the macro headwinds, you know, impact these programs and just any new programs or other updates on this?
Yeah. We continue to track. We've got a portfolio of 30 something different PopSeq programs, projects that are underway, and some finish, new ones get added. There's actually some very large programs. The X has enabled in certain countries that, you know, we hope to be adding very soon. That'll be exciting. No big, big ones to note. I know in the past we've had some very large ones, but we've got a diversified set. There has been an impact of the macro to some of the, you know, both the, the purchasing as well as even, you know, inflation has stretched some of those budgets and in terms of what can get done, and sample gathering's been an issue at times.
We built that into the way we've looked at the year, and, you know, if it's intensified, we've, we've reflected it in our revised guidance. Overall, though, the PopSeq programs as a whole portfolio are less than 5% of our revenue. In and of itself, it's, it's, you know, it's important, but not a huge piece of the revenue base.
Great. Well, thanks for that. With that, we're right here on time. Salli, really appreciate you joining us today, and thanks for everyone in the audience and listening
Yeah. Thank you.