Liberty Energy Inc. (LBRT)
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May 1, 2026, 11:43 AM EDT - Market open
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Earnings Call: Q3 2022

Oct 20, 2022

Operator

Welcome to the Liberty Energy Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there'll be an opportunity to ask questions. Please note this event is being recorded. I'd now like to turn the conference over to Anjali Voria, Strategic Finance and Investor Relations Lead. Please go ahead.

Anjali Voria
Head of Strategic Finance and Investor Relations, Liberty Energy

Thank you, Anthony. Good morning and welcome to the Liberty Energy third quarter 2022 earnings conference call. Joining us on the call are Chris Wright, Chief Executive Officer, Ron Gusek, President, and Michael Stock, Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin, I would like to remind all participants that some of our comments today may include forward-looking statements reflecting the company's view about future prospects, revenues, expenses or profits. These matters involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our forward-looking statements. These statements reflect the company's beliefs based on current conditions that are subject to certain risks and uncertainties that are detailed in our earnings release and other public filings. Our comments today also include non-GAAP financial and operational measures.

These non-GAAP measures, including EBITDA, Adjusted EBITDA, pre-tax return on capital employed, and cash return on capital invested are not a substitute for GAAP measures and may be comparable to similar measures of other companies. A reconciliation of net income to EBITDA and Adjusted EBITDA and the calculation of pre-tax return on capital employed as discussed on this call are presented in the company's earnings release, which is available on the investor section of its website. The calculation of cash return on capital invested is set forth in the company's investor presentation dated September 6th, 2022, which is also available on the investor section of the website. I will turn the call over to Chris.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our third quarter 2022 operational and financial results. We are extremely proud of our team's strong operational execution that underpinned robust third quarter financial results. Our strategic plan to deploy six fleets to supply incremental demand from our long-term customer partners was successfully completed ahead of schedule while navigating challenging labor markets and a volatile supply chain. Our strong customer partnerships, vertically integrated delivery model, and the strength of our crew leadership was crucial to quickly bringing new fleets to market while maintaining high levels of performance across our entire fleet. In the third quarter, revenue was $1.2 billion, a 26% sequential and 82% year-over-year increase. Net income for the quarter was $147 million or $0.78 per fully diluted share.

Adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $277 million, a 41% increase over the prior quarter. Strong results enabled us to launch our return of capital program and repurchase 2.5% of our outstanding shares. We also announced the restoration of our pre-COVID quarterly cash dividend of $0.05 per share to be paid in December. We will maintain a flexible approach to returning capital to shareholders while maintaining a strong balance sheet and investing in compelling opportunities. Capital allocation is front and center again. I'm proud to say that our operational execution in the quarter was unparalleled, breaking several Liberty records including proppant pumped, pump hours, technology rollouts and more, all while deploying fleets acquired in the OneStim acquisition. The incredible undertaking of bringing six additional fleets online during the third quarter required an extraordinary level of collaboration and coordination between our teams.

In a 90-day period, we hired and onboarded six crews, which is no small feat in a highly competitive labor market. Our ability to attract and selectively choose from a higher quality pool of candidates, especially in this tight labor environment, is a testament to the Liberty team and culture. It is an energized, empowering, and engaging workplace designed to allow our employees to passionately pursue their goals. The training and onboarding of new employees to work alongside seasoned crews will drive high service quality for years to come. Additionally, our operational readiness was helped by the recent realignment of our teams across the company from frac crew to maintenance to supply chain and procurement. We now have seamless, dedicated teams working together to support crews, allowing specific teams to identify goals, execute on clear priorities, and hold themselves and each other accountable for the delivery of superior service.

We leveraged our extensive supply chain capacity to support the deployment of additional fleets in an environment where sand and other materials are in short supply. While Liberty has grown rapidly over our eleven-year history, we've worked hard to preserve and build the culture that has created our industry leading service quality. Epitomized by the quality and dedication of our employees. The recent realignment of our teams has created dynamic units within our organization that foster innovation and collaboration. Our people and the culture that bind them remains our most precious asset. Deploying the balance of the fleets that we acquired from OneStim was a long-term strategic decision in support of high quality, dedicated customers, and only at the appropriate time. Our customers' well economics remain strong even with the recent pullback in commodity prices. Further, operators remain dedicated to development programs supporting flat to modest production growth.

The frac market is very near full utilization and our ability to deploy fleets for long-term dedicated customers when the time was right is a testament to the technology, scale, vertical integration, and supplier partnerships that we have built. Our customers chose to partner with Liberty not only because of our market leading operational performance, but also because they recognize that technology innovation is an essential component in delivering top-tier services today and far into the future. In the most recent Kimberlite survey, an independent industry research firm that extensively polls E&P customers across the industry, Liberty was ranked the top service provider across the spectrum. We are quite proud of the results in that survey. Demand for our next generation digiFrac fleet is strong and will soon be on customer locations starting in the latter part of this quarter.

It will set the standard for the lowest-emission technology in the market with superior performance, durability and reliability. We bring our unique solutions-driven technology focus to all parts of our business. This quarter we are rolling out our next-level Sentinel Logistics automation software that fully integrates with our Oracle Cloud ERP systems to continue to improve on our industry-leading logistics operations. Our technology partnerships further our research into areas complementary to our business. We recently announced an investment in Natron Energy, a global pioneer rapidly scaling up an exciting Prussian blue sodium-ion battery technology that could have a role further enhancing our digiFrac fleets. We believe this technology will be used to maximize uptime and potentially provide peak shaving ability to optimize generator utilization and ensure the lowest possible emissions footprint for on-site power generation for digiFrac fleets.

We're also partnering with Fervo Energy to help advance geothermal resource development for dispatchable, reliable baseload grid power with low carbon intensity. We'll have more to say about this on our next earnings call. We are continuing to execute on our disciplined leadership of the frac industry as we seek to drive superior long-term financial results and support our customers to deliver a secure supply of reliable, affordable and clean energy to the world in a time of global insecurity. The foundation of technology and long-term partnership commitments drive the superior financial results that has enabled Liberty Energy over the last 10 years to have an average cash return on capital invested that has tripled the OSX and is over 40% higher than the S&P 500. Global macroeconomic concerns are mounting with rising interest rates, elevated inflation levels, Chinese COVID lockdowns, and slowing industrial activity.

Despite these headwinds, oil and gas markets remained tight in the third quarter and remain so today. As we look ahead, risk to the delicate balance in oil and gas markets comes from both the demand side and the supply side. A mild recession may only modestly impact the global demand for energy, and it is likely already reflected in commodity prices. A deeper global economic downturn would result in further demand contraction. The COVID lockdowns in China may also persist longer than expected, further pressuring near-term commodity prices. On the other hand, constrained global oil supplies are the dominant force behind higher commodity prices, and the outlook for needed future supply growth looks highly uncertain.

OPEC+'s preemptive cuts to production quotas are expected to translate into reduced production from the few countries actually producing at their stated quotas, mainly Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Kuwait. So far, Russian oil exports have only been modestly curbed since the Ukraine invasion, as some exports that were previously set for Europe have been redirected to Asia. However, the impending sanctions on Russian seaborne crude could meaningfully lower global oil supplies as tanker capacity constrains Russia's ability to redirect all the barrels to Asia, where storage capacity is already reaching peak levels. In contrast, distillate storage levels in the U.S. are at 50-year lows. Myriad supply risks abound from countries like Libya, Nigeria, Iraq and others.

Historically low levels of global spare oil production capacity, low worldwide oil and gas commercial inventories, and low global strategic petroleum reserves, all a direct result of an eight-year period of global under-investment in oil production capacity and infrastructure make today's oil market balance fragile. Despite the endless happy talk of an energy transition, long-term global oil demand has been growing steadily over the last 30 years. In the 1990s, demand rose at a 1.1% compound annual growth rate. In the 2000s, the compound annual growth rate was again 1.1%. In the 2010s, the compound annual growth rate was slightly higher at 1.2%.

This trend was briefly interrupted by COVID, but long-term global demand continues to rise and assuming it continues, even at a reduced 1% compound annual growth rate over the next decade, equates to over 1 million bbls per day per year of incremental demand for oil. Surveying the global centers of oil production today does not bring high confidence on where these additional barrels will be coming from. North America is likely to be the leading supplier of these incremental barrels, which is quite bullish for Liberty business in the coming years. The natural gas outlook remains similarly tight, dominated by rising demand across the world. During the first half of 2022, the U.S. became the largest exporter of LNG in the world, a notable achievement since we were the largest natural gas importer just 15 years ago.

Today, U.S. LNG exports are significantly higher than last year, despite the Freeport LNG facility outage. LNG export facilities under construction will expand export capacity by nearly six BCF per day, an increase of over 40% over the next three years from current export capacity levels. In today's tight gas markets abroad, these molecules are in high demand, as evidenced by the growing energy crisis in Europe, which has led to a rise in competition for LNG gas supplies that typically headed to Asia. In the U.S., natural gas demand for power generation is at all-time highs and likely continues for the foreseeable future. Additionally, the demand from the reshoring of energy-intensive operations, including within industrial and petrochemical industries, supports a strong demand pull for U.S. natural gas. Together, these factors are likely to strengthen the demand for secure North American energy.

Combination of capital discipline among the public operators and very tight supply chains, particularly in the frack services market, are constraining today's activity levels to deliver only modest U.S. oil production growth. Today's frack market is relatively tight, with near full utilization of available capacity. Today's limited capital being deployed in the frack market is expected to be primarily directed towards the build-out of next-generation frack fleet capacity at levels roughly sufficient to offset aging legacy equipment. Tight service supply has made service quality and reliability top of mind for customers.

Next-generation fleets are also highly sought after. These two factors further strengthen Liberty's competitive position. Liberty's outstanding technology, operational prowess, and customer focus have delivered acceleration in our financial results throughout the year. We're proud of the Liberty team and our top-notch customers and suppliers. We are well-positioned today and have an exciting suite of new technology developments underway as we move into a strong market in 2023. With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Michael Stock, our CFO, to discuss our financial results.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Good morning. Liberty had an exceptional quarter. A 26% sequential increase in revenue translated into a 40% increase in net income and a 41% expansion in Adjusted EBITDA. The Liberty team delivered on outstanding results on strong execution across the board. The cadence of our quarterly results is a testament to the hard work of the entire organization. Third quarter revenue was $1.2 billion, a $246 million or 26% increase from $943 million in the second quarter. Our results were driven by strong activity improvement, with nearly half of the sequential growth related to the deployment of OneStim acquired fleets. We also benefited from modest pricing improvements during the quarter. Net income after tax was $147 million, increased from $105 million in the second quarter.

Fully diluted net income per share was $0.78 compared to $0.55 per share in the second quarter. Results included a $9 million fleet startup cost incurred for fleet deployments, a $29 million non-cash charge for the remeasurement of the tax receivable agreements, and a $3 million gain on investments. General and administrative expenses totaled $50 million, including non-cash stock-based compensation of $6 million. G&A increased $8 million sequentially, primarily driven by performance-based compensation, inflationary and activity increases commensurate with the growth of our business, including investment in platform IT systems and other process improvements to support our continued expected growth. Net interest expense and associated fees totaled $7 million for the quarter. Adjusted EBITDA increased to $277 million, a 41% increase from the $196 million achieved in the second quarter.

In the quarter, the tax receivable agreements related to our Up-C structure at the time of our IPO were required to be remeasured and resulted in a $29 million non-cash charge in the third quarter. This resulted in a 17% effective rate on the combined income tax and TRA expense lines. As a reminder, in the second quarter of 2021, prior losses due to the COVID downturn resulted in Liberty recording a valuation allowance on a portion of deferred tax assets and a remeasurement of the TRA liability as required by U.S. GAAP. As a result of our strong financial results in recent quarters, we believe in the fourth quarter of 2022, we will no longer require a valuation allowance on deferred tax assets and will again remeasure the TRA.

In Q4 2022, we expect the release of the valuation allowance and the related remeasurement of the TRA, along with the provision for tax for the full year 2022 results, to equate to approximately a 24% combined effective tax rate for the quarter. We expect 2022 cash taxes to be approximately $7 million for the year. In 2023, we expect approximately a 23% combined effective book tax rate, of which we expect to pay about 1/3 of that in the year as cash taxes. We ended the quarter with a cash balance of $24 million and a net debt of $230 million. Net debt increased by $17 million from the second quarter due to an activity driven increase in working capital and $70 million of cash utilized to execute the share buybacks in the quarter.

As of September 30th, we have $150 million of borrowings drawn on our ABL credit facility. Total liquidity available under the credit facility was $298 million. Net capital expenditures totaled $95 million on a GAAP basis in the third quarter of 2022, which include costs related to fleet deployment, digiFrac fleet construction, and ongoing capitalized maintenance spending. In the fourth quarter, we expect approximately flat sequential revenue growth. This is primarily driven by full quarter of contributions from crews deployed in the third quarter, basically offsetting normal holiday and weather seasonality. We also expect relatively flat margins as the contribution of incremental fleets will be offset by ongoing supply chain operational and inflationary pressures, including in commodities, raw materials, and labor costs.

As we look forward, the global energy supply and demand balance supports a constructive backdrop for North American production over a longer duration oil and gas cycle. Liberty continues to invest in the early part of this cycle to build out our competitive advantage and maximize free cash flow over the long term. While our capital expenditures are largely on track for the full year 2022, there is a potential for some amount of Q4 spending to slip into Q1 of 2023, resulting from supply chain delays. As we reiterated through the year, we have significant flexibility in adjusting our capital spending targets depending on economic conditions, customer demand, and returns expectations. Our increased free cash flow generation capability of our business supports our capital allocation priorities of disciplined investment to expand earnings per share, balance sheet strength, and return of capital to our shareholders.

In the third quarter, we announced a $250 million share repurchase authorization. In the quarter, we repurchased 2.5% or 4.7 million of our outstanding shares for approximately $70 million. We now have $180 million remaining on the authorization. In addition, we announced the reinstatement of our quarterly cash dividend, pre-focus levels of $0.05 per share, beginning with a dividend payable in December 2022. We have confidence in our ability to deliver a leading return of capital strategy that combines a cash dividend and opportunistic share repurchases to drive significant value for our shareholders. With that, I will turn it over to Chris before we open for Q&A.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks, Michael. Recent Russian drone and missile strikes have damaged or destroyed over 1/3 of Ukraine's power stations and numerous fuel depots. The targeting is obvious. Imperil a country's energy system and you imperil everything else, making life much, much harder for Ukrainians. The world is rightfully outraged at this cruel strategy. Ursula von der Leyen, President of the European Commission, called these attacks war crimes. Yet, imperiling our own energy system through the political process remains a front-burner priority for many politicians and activists. Surely this is only possible because most people still don't appreciate that increasing roadblocks to hydrocarbon development and infrastructure are highly destructive with no offsetting benefits. For example, restricting hydrocarbons and heavily subsidizing intermittent weather-dependent renewables have severely compromised our electricity grids from California to Texas to New England.

New England is warning of blackouts this winter due to potential gas shortages, even though the mother of all shale gas reservoirs is next door. Access to this gas is blocked because New York State prevented expansion of the gas pipelines, harming tens of millions of Americans. New England has generated millions of megawatt hours of electricity this year, burning oil because sufficient natural gas was either unavailable or unaffordable. Copious biofuel subsidies and a growing regulatory burden have led to the shutdown or conversion of multiple American refineries, contributing to skyrocketing diesel prices and U.S. distillate inventories now being at their lowest October level in 50 years. I could go on, but you get the point. Let's all check our desires to be fashionable or hip when we talk about energy.

Energy is so critical to human well-being that we must speak honestly, candidly, and frequently to combat the increasingly damaging plague of energy ignorance that has taken over our country and much of the Western world. With that, I will now turn it over to the operator for questions.

Operator

We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, you may press star on your telephone keypad. If you're using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. At this time, we will pause momentarily to compile the roster. Our first question will come from Saurabh Pant with Bank of America. You may now go ahead.

Saurabh Pant
Director and Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

Hi. Good morning, Chris, Ron, and Mike. I'll just start with a quick one, just so that we all know. In terms of your fleet count, you said you reactivated six fleets in the third quarter. Can you remind us where you are right now? Should we include all these four digiFrac fleets as incremental on top of where you are?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. We don't give that the precise numbers, but we were mid-30s before. I'd say we're low 40s fleet count today. It's not gonna move much from there. I think as far as bringing out additional fleets from legacy equipment, that's done. We do have digiFracs being constructed. The first two that come out, if the customer relationship and forward horizon for that equipment is compelling, those might be additive fleets, but only if it's compelling. The other big challenge is, as you know, of course, is humans and staff. The humans are what dominate the asset of a frac crew, of a fleet. Our frac fleet count today is low 40s and probably doesn't move much from there throughout the next year. Michael, you wanna elaborate on that or add to?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

I think that's fine.

Saurabh Pant
Director and Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

No, thanks for clarifying. It sounds like it just got pulled forward because you were talking about low forties last quarter as well. That's not different. Okay, cool. On the CapEx front, Mike, you were talking about some CapEx potentially moving from the fourth quarter to early next year. That all makes sense, but can you quickly update us on what we should expect for next year's CapEx? Because last quarter, you were talking about that being at or slightly below 2022 levels.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

There's no real change to that at the moment. That's really where we're expecting. That's still the general expectation.

Saurabh Pant
Director and Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

Okay. Perfect.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

From the bottom up as a pure investment and compelling returns, as we've proved over the last 11 years of our history, you know, we will invest in those when they make sense. I think we've done a very good job providing returns for our shareholders.

Saurabh Pant
Director and Equity Research Analyst, Bank of America

Right. Okay, perfect. Okay, guys. I'll turn it back. Thanks.

Operator

Our next question will come from Derek Podhaizer with Barclays. You may now go ahead.

Derek Podhaizer
VP of Equity Research, Barclays

Hey, good morning, guys. Normally we're talking about budget exhaustion in the fourth quarter. The guidance doesn't really suggest that, more just the typical seasonality. Can you remind us what's different this year than years prior? Is there more worry from the E&Ps that if they lay down rigs or frac spreads, they won't get them back? I think we have to remind the investors and ourselves that what seasonality looks like and maybe why we won't see that budget exhaustion that we typically see just given the tightness in the market. Just some thoughts around that I think would be helpful.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Derek, I think you said that about right. The operators' biggest concerns right now are security of supply, particularly security of supply of competent, reliable crews. Yes, there is a larger hesitance to suspend operations for the last few weeks of the year than there typically is. Now, for some people, that is the right thing to do, and that does fit their budgets. For long-term, you know, key customers of ours, if we've got other places we can temporarily deploy those crews to bridge that gap, in today's market, that's not hard to do. We'll see some of that. Yeah, I think not the usual amount you typically see in December. There's still the holiday season.

One of the things we do at Liberty is we shut down our crews, all of them, you know, for 24 hours, and in some cases twice for holiday parties and celebrations. We've got to keep our people working hard in the field pumped up and excited. Those are important events for us. There's always a little bit of holiday and weather slowdown, even without budget exhaustion.

Derek Podhaizer
VP of Equity Research, Barclays

Got it.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Derek, we're returning to more of the pre-2018, more normalized, long-term planning of E&Ps, where they've got a steady cadence of, spending throughout the year. I think the change to, you know, that happened in 2018 kind of caused a ripple effect for two or three years until it was interrupted by COVID. I think we're back to more normal, sort of like standard, good, planning from the E&P companies.

Derek Podhaizer
VP of Equity Research, Barclays

Got it. Okay. No, that's helpful, and I appreciate the comments there. For my next question, just wanted to touch on, which I think is an underappreciated part of this market, is the repricing effect and then the profitability expansion that certain investors are worried that if we see a peaking rig or frac count, maybe that just marks the peak and North America's done. Maybe walk us through from now through next year where that might not be bad for your profitability, whereas you have the repricing effect and maybe the vertical integration to continue profitability expansion. Just maybe some thoughts around there as where we can see on a more of a flattish fleet count that you just mentioned, where the earnings power and expansion can come from as far as a repricing effect of the tail end of your fleet count.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. Derek, yeah, obviously the market is tight, and it's been floating up pretty at a rapid pace in the first part of this year. There's still a tailwind of pricing pressure pushing up today, but you know, it's I think most of the reset of price up has probably happened. Still a little bit more. Yeah, of course, there's some fleets reprice often, so they kind of follow the marketplace. Some of them are locked in for longer time periods. Yeah, we'll have some positive pricing resets happening, again, around the end of the year.

Yeah, economics are good today. You know, for us, it's both quality of service, you know, how much efficiency we get done in a day. That's a big driver of profitability. A lot of it's our internal systems. How can we get more efficient, deliver a higher quality service, you know, at a lower cost? Of course, lower means lower than it otherwise would be without technology. There's still that backdrop of inflation, you know, of parts and equipment and stuff like that we're contending with. We continue to focus on this.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Expanding the shoulders of our earnings potential. As we say, we take more of the wallet of the. We are a vertically integrated company in a large number of ways, and we get more and more efficient in delivering all of those services, which still allows a lower cost per lateral foot to our customers and a higher profitability per lateral foot or per fleet, if you like, for us. I think that's the key thing of what we're doing.

That continued expansion comes from always being that technology leader. Generally, as you've seen, you know, there's always a general trend of a flight to quality from our customers, you know, to the quality providers who can provide that steady, you know, good service that they really need to plan their business. That allows us to have that surety of demand, which means we can invest in the technology, which expands our profitability every year. We can keep with the same fleet count and continue to expand our profitability.

Derek Podhaizer
VP of Equity Research, Barclays

Got it. Thanks, Chris. Thanks, Michael. I'll turn it back.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks.

Operator

Our next question will come from Stephen Gengaro with Stifel. You may now go ahead.

Stephen Gengaro
Managing Director, Stifel

Thanks, good morning, everybody. When you think about, and I know you don't give us the exact fleet count, but when you think about second quarter to third quarter, and I think your step up in EBITDA per fleet was about $5 million, give or take. Can you kind of talk about that bridge and kind of the driving factors of that? Then, maybe on top of that, is there, outside of seasonality, is there any reason the pricing you're seeing shouldn't take that number up next year?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Right. You know, it's a combination effect. Obviously, you've got a significant amount of fixed costs, you know, in a $5 billion company, right? That as, you know, you grow your earnings, you absorb those quicker. That's one of the sections. We had a tailwind of pricing as pricing moved up. We also had, and amazingly so, while we were adding six fleets, an increase of efficiency and activity from our crews. Our operations team are absolutely and utterly sort of, like, performing at top level out there. I think that's a key thing, and I think some of the, you know, background services, whether it's water, et cetera, you know, sort of some of the early struggles with sand, water, trucking, et cetera, for the first half of the year, you know, that's getting lined out and getting a little bit better.

We're getting contribution from all of those. As it comes to next year, I mean, I think you've got some fleets now that are sort of, you know, kind of. You've got a number of fleets that are really at, you know, sort of where market pricing is now. We've got some that are, you know, slightly, you know, that are a little bit below market pricing that will reprice. Obviously, you know, one of the key things about next year is, you know, where is the long-term, you know, sort of like if the market's gonna be as far as, you know, pricing, where oil price is going to be. Now, we may have some small headwinds in the short term, but we think there's a very long runway for a strong call on U.S. oil and gas production, which we think, you know, bodes well for strong earnings for us for a number of years to come.

Stephen Gengaro
Managing Director, Stifel

Great. Thanks, Michael. I know you talked a little bit about CapEx maybe sliding into next year, but even with that, I mean, your free cash generation in 2023 and probably 2024 looks very, very strong. What do you do with it? I mean, assuming there's no acquisitions and obviously you've reinstated a dividend, but do you more aggressively give capital back to shareholders? Do you have a thought process or a framework in mind on how investors should be thinking about that?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Well, yeah. It's a topic of frequent discussion, you know, among the leadership of the company, with our Board. 'Cause yes, I do think in the next few years, one of our biggest decisions will be capital allocation, what to do with a lot of free cash flow coming. Again, we will never adopt a formulaic, you know, X% will go here because share buybacks for us depend upon the price at which we can buy stock back and the delta between that price and our estimate, conservative estimate of intrinsic value. Share buybacks are likely going to be a large part of capital allocation in the coming years. Obviously to this year, they're the dominant piece of returning cash to shareholders.

We have restored the dividend we started years ago, and we intend to pay a regular quarterly dividend going forward. Probably modest growth rate in that dividend as well. Our business is always gonna be cyclical. We're never gonna have a huge quarterly dividend because our results are likely to remain cyclical. The other big thing is keep a very strong balance sheet. We never know what's coming. The next downturn when it arrives, probably not gonna give us warning a ways in advance. We're always gonna have a strong balance sheet. That served us well in making the last two downturns, both pretty severe, making transformative acquisitions.

Then we're always gonna invest in technology and things that make our company better, that build our competitive advantage versus our competitors, that allow us to provide higher quality services, at a lower cost and in a safer setting. Technology investments are there. Acquisitions, yeah, look, we've never been a consolidator per se, but if there are acquisitions that, as Michael says, broaden our shoulders, allow us to increase the profitability per fleet, and the economics of those acquisitions are compelling, you know, we're always looking at that. We're obviously not much of an acquirer, but we're always looking when there's compelling opportunities. Today, if you're gonna acquire stuff, cash is much more attractive than stock, given the valuations of our stock right now and our cash generation. Again, you know. It is a bottom-up, day-by-day decision on that, you know? There's not a simple formulaic answer to that.

Stephen Gengaro
Managing Director, Stifel

Okay, great. No, thank you for the color, Chris.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks, Stephen.

Operator

Our next question will come from Ati Modak with Goldman Sachs . You may now go ahead.

Ati Modak
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Hi, team. Thanks for taking the question. Chris and Mike, you know, there's been a few new builds that we've been hearing about, and there's more fleets being activated now. Help us understand the shape of the supply, in terms of the capacity supply curve between these additions and the attrition where you think we will end your 2023.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah, I think, again, it's hard to predict the future, but the market is tight, and we certainly don't see anything that's meaningfully change that going forward. With good profitability today, are people trying to hang on to that last legacy equipment and get the last bit of juice out of that? Sure. Ultimately, I think you're seeing today some degradation among older or lower quality frac companies and their ability to deliver efficient services. That's both a human, maybe mostly a human challenge and stress in today's marketplace, but also legacy equipment, if not properly invested in, you know, it has a finite lifetime. So we, you know, we think the market stays tight. I don't see a meaning.

Unless we have some large drop in commodity prices and a drop in demand for frack fleets, I think the market stays quite tight, really, as far as we can see. Certainly through next year. There'll be some new fleets coming out. We do keep a count on that. Could that fleet count be a few more than the amount of capacity that's gonna age out? It isn't like a whole fleet will be laid down, but one by one, as pumps go down and they exit permanently, I don't think we have much higher active frack fleet count a year from now than we have today. In our bottom-up survey of customers, the demand for fleets next year is slightly higher than the active fleets today, but not a lot.

Ati Modak
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Got it. talk to us about the Natron investment and what that potentially means for your fleet mix over time. Would you want to eventually own these kind of technologies? Are there other such investments that you are looking at? What are the size of investments or acquisitions do you have in mind?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Well, as you can see with the Natron investment, that's, you know, it's a modest investment, but it's a unique situation with really a different battery technology. Lithium ion dominates or variants of that dominate today because it has the highest energy density. You know, for this 100-lbs box, you could store the most energy in that configuration. But it's got serious problems with it. It can't discharge super fast. It wears out. Those batteries don't last very long 'cause those ions don't fit fabulously well in that material matrix. As you see all the time, it's got a fire risk and a hazard. You know, look, if you want highest energy density, that's, you know, that's the best we got today. But with this Prussian blue and sodium-ion, you've got a different battery configuration that allows very rapid discharge.

If we gotta shave a peak off during fracking, we can draw power out of those batteries very fast. The sodium ions are just a perfect fit size-wise in that Prussian blue crystal matrix. You've got, you know, much longer lives of batteries. You don't have the thermal instability risks and fires. We think it's a neat technology, for us, for what we need. We're gonna run large generators at high thermal efficiencies with minimum emissions that deliver low cost sources of energy and the lowest possible emissions, and that's aided by shaving off the spikes in demand that happen episodically throughout fracs. Yeah, we're quite interested and, yeah, we'll see where that goes. Again, look, it's a modest investment to be a partner with this neat upstart company and probably an anchor and potentially an anchor customer going forward.

Ati Modak
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Got it. Thank you. I'll turn it over.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Yeah, let's say on the size of investments as we look at all different sizes. Again, generally they're focused on technology and places where we can get a real technology advantage in what we can bring to the market.

Ati Modak
Analyst, Goldman Sachs

Got it.

Operator

Thanks. Our next question will come from Arun Jayaram with JP Morgan. You may now go ahead.

Arun Jayaram
Equity Research Analyst, JPMorgan

Yeah, good morning. I was wondering if you could give us a sense of the vertical integration and what it's meaning to your earnings power. As you know, maybe more specifically, you know, today, how much of your EBITDA would you estimate is generating outside of pure frac between PropX, S wireline, sand mines, et cetera?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Look, it's dominantly frac. Frac is the big piece of that business. Of course, there's additional earnings from those, vertical integration companies. We did those deals not just for that additional earnings, which is, you know, not trivial, but it's dominantly frac. They're also to make sure that frac runs at high speed. You know, having access to sand is not only profitability on sand, but it's to lower your risk of being ever waiting on sand or having quality problems with your sand supply. We look at these vertical integrations as businesses in their own right, but at least equally important or important as enablers of the core business of frac.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. As Chris said, you know, we really have one segment to our business, and that's one segment, you know, for reporting and everything else, and that is frac because it was all very, very interrelated to that final efficiency of delivering that sort of, you know, that stimulated last lateral foot.

Arun Jayaram
Equity Research Analyst, JPMorgan

Got it. Just my follow-up. Chris, you guys acted pretty aggressively on the buyback. You bought back $70 million of stock in the third quarter, have $180 million remaining. One of the questions from the buy side this morning we've been getting is just on the Schlumberger stake. Schlumberger's highlighted how its ownership of Liberty's a non-core holding. I think they own around $400 million of stock today. Thoughts on maybe using the buyback to mitigate the impact of this overhang?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. I mean, what they decide to do with the share is certainly up to them. You know, I don't know and certainly can't speak for them. From the Liberty side, our goal with buybacks is to increase the value of each share that's out there. It's really price dependent, and without stressing the balance sheet. Yeah, are we interested in acquiring more shares, buying back more shares of Liberty stock at an attractive valuation? Absolutely. Again, the aggressiveness at which we'll do that, just quite price dependent.

Arun Jayaram
Equity Research Analyst, JPMorgan

Great. Thanks a lot, Chris.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thank you.

Operator

Our next question will come from Waqar Syed with ATB Capital Markets. You may now go ahead.

Waqar Syed
Managing Director of Energy Technology and Services and Head of Research, ATB Capital Markets

Thank you. First of all, congrats on a great quarter. Chris.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks.

Waqar Syed
Managing Director of Energy Technology and Services and Head of Research, ATB Capital Markets

You've got about 8 million tons of frac sand capacity. Could you maybe tell us, like, what's the utilization level right now? You're running 100% or, you know, what is that level?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. Again, we don't break down the details of that, but yeah, absolutely 100%. You know, we've done some modest investments to optimize throughput, to optimize the cost of mining. Yes, the sand resources we operate are running full out.

Waqar Syed
Managing Director of Energy Technology and Services and Head of Research, ATB Capital Markets

Just as broadly or, you know, don't need a specific number. How much of that is running through Liberty and how much is running through third parties?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

The vast majority of that sand runs through Liberty fleets. You know, there was a big move years ago that all the E&Ps were gonna be self-sourcers of sand. Yeah, look, we were skeptical of that idea then and remain that way. The reason is, think of our business. You know, we got over 4,000 employees. Logistics is central to our business. If every aspect of logistics isn't running, the frac fleet's not running. I think it's just, it's much more core to our business than to our customer's business. Yeah, the vast majority of the sand Liberty pumps, and that's not just in the Permian, but elsewhere, is sand that's purchased, delivered, and handled by Liberty. Not all of it, but the vast majority of it is.

Waqar Syed
Managing Director of Energy Technology and Services and Head of Research, ATB Capital Markets

Okay. Then in terms of how you charge your customers on that sand that's running through your system, is that all on what the spot rate is today? Or do you have some contracts that's keeping you know those sand prices the current you know that's portion of that sand is not realizing spot prices?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Look, in all with all of our business, we're not a spot player. We're a long-term partnership player with our customers, you know, on frac. Usually sand is together with frac. Yeah, that is not riding or playing the spot market. That's long-term committed partnerships with our customers. Yeah, price of course adjusts with time.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Waqar Syed, I'd sort of point out that the vast majority of all sand that's pumped in the oil field is pumped on long-term contracts, right? You hear.

Waqar Syed
Managing Director of Energy Technology and Services and Head of Research, ATB Capital Markets

Sure.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

People hear about spot pricing in West Texas and other places, et cetera. The reality of the fact, that is the minority of any of this. That's sort of the leading edge of the minority of sand that's pumped. You know, the majority of stuff that, you know, the big sand companies sell, you know, not to us or not to service companies or to the self-sourcers, is all sold on long-term, contracts at very different price, the spot price that you hear about. I think that's something that the, I think is probably a little misunderstood in the industry.

Waqar Syed
Managing Director of Energy Technology and Services and Head of Research, ATB Capital Markets

Sure. Just on that topic, if you could generally just describe what portion or how, or what is the gap between what the spot prices are today versus what your realized prices are today?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Well, not for us. I'll talk generally as far as the market goes, right? I mean, just if you think about West Texas, I mean, people will hear spot prices probably average in the mid-$40s-ish, maybe a little, you know, sort of maybe mid- to high $40s. I will say if you polled the whole of West Texas, I think you'll find that the majority of the sand average is probably being pumped at the mid-$20s. That's tons. That's a price per ton at the mine head, right? In general.

Waqar Syed
Managing Director of Energy Technology and Services and Head of Research, ATB Capital Markets

Yeah.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

That's about where the general sand market is. I think if you ask any of the big sand providers, and let's say, you know, ask Covia or a few others, I mean, I think you'll find you get roughly those numbers. Thanks, Waqar.

Waqar Syed
Managing Director of Energy Technology and Services and Head of Research, ATB Capital Markets

Thank you.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks, Waqar.

Operator

Our next question will come from Scott Gruber with Citigroup. You may now go ahead.

Scott Gruber
Director of Oilfield Services and Equipment Research, Citigroup

Yes, good morning.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Morning, Scott.

Scott Gruber
Director of Oilfield Services and Equipment Research, Citigroup

Just had a question how you think about the kind of multi-year investment in digiFrac. You know, if demand is kind of flattish next year and the outlook is kind of flattish in 2024, but rates are holding at these healthy levels, does the pace of the digiFrac investment, you know, continue at, you know, call it four fleets a year? Does it moderate? How should we think about that kind of multi-year investment in digiFrac in a flattish environment?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah, again, it's all those decisions are just one at a time, bottom up. Yeah, I you know, three or four fleets a year is, you know, again, it could be much less than that. It could be more than that. That's probably, that's not out of the realm of reasonable. You know, we're doing individual decisions with customers, with partners, you know, one at a time. Yes, yeah, I think the long-term economics of these fleets and the long-term performance of these fleets are likely to prove quite compelling to customers and therefore compelling delivery. We gotta balance that because it's just one possible use of capital.

Scott Gruber
Director of Oilfield Services and Equipment Research, Citigroup

Yeah, got it. Got it.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks.

Scott Gruber
Director of Oilfield Services and Equipment Research, Citigroup

Can you discuss what you're seeing from an inflation perspective with respect to maintenance? You know, recently heard from a land driller disclose a pretty sizable step up in maintenance for next year. What are you guys seeing and how should we think about it?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. Well, we didn't cannibalize. You know, generally, there's you know there's significant amount of inflation over the last year or two. You know, really, we are trying to hold that steady at our historical levels due to technology and sort of design changes, et cetera, Scott. Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously, you know you know about sort of the inflation rates that are going out there related to steel and everything else. We're still sort of tracking sort of at the general same sort of historical range that we have. Again, I think, you know, we really did invest during the downturn. You know, we didn't cannibalize some of our older equipment. We don't have any sort of like you know early spike like they were talking about.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks.

Scott Gruber
Director of Oilfield Services and Equipment Research, Citigroup

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question will come from Marc Bianchi with Cowen. You may now go ahead.

Marc Bianchi
Managing Director, Cowen

Hey, thanks. I wanted to ask on the digiFrac deliveries that you have upcoming. It seems like that's slipped a little bit from the original plan. Sounds like partially due to supply chain, but maybe you could talk to the confidence that you have in those now being delivered in the later part of this quarter. Then when they're delivered, if we just assume they're incremental, should we be seeing an immediate uplift in profit from those fleets, or is there sort of a shakedown period? What gives you confidence in kind of you know getting cash flow out of those on day one?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Right. Yeah, no, you're very confident in the delivery. You know, it was an electronics supply chain issue that sort of really put those back a little bit. You know, everybody was fighting. No, and then even though they're going to be incremental, right, these, those teams, there's gonna be a transfer as, you know, as that equipment transfers into that team. When you're thinking about modeling incremental, you know, I would do nothing from that, which is taking that older equipment and then moving it to another customer in or, yeah, or extension with that customer in the next quarter, 'cause you've gotta hire the people. That's the way to look at it from a modeling perspective.

Marc Bianchi
Managing Director, Cowen

Okay. Just from an industrial perspective, is there a period of, you know, making sure that these things are working as expected or, you know, what gives you confidence around kind of the ability for the first of a kind fleet to be fully operational as you expect?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

You know, we've got pilot pumps out there right now pumping. The performance has been outstanding. It is a new system where things coming together. Are there gonna be issues that we're gonna have to iron out kinks on? Absolutely. But, you know, and of course, we're gonna phase them in. You know, they're going into a fleet that's already running by the same humans that'll run the new fleet. You know, so a new digiFrac pump and generator will come in and work together with the existing fleet.

So they'll be sort of phased in as a fleet is converted over. But you're right, it's a new technology and a new system that we've spent years developing. So, you know, are there gonna be wrinkles and challenges? I mean, that's happening right now. Absolutely. Our goal has always been to get to the best fleet at the end of the day. Don't cut corners to be a little bit faster or meet some timeline. You know, the idea is to build something truly differentiated here.

Marc Bianchi
Managing Director, Cowen

Thanks.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Yeah.

Marc Bianchi
Managing Director, Cowen

Makes sense, Chris. Michael, if I could just squeeze one more in real quick on the tax.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

That's fine.

Marc Bianchi
Managing Director, Cowen

The cash taxes for next year. I hear you on, you know, a third of the book tax. How long would your cash taxes be below the book tax if sort of 2023 continued forever? Just trying to understand the runway there.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

I would generally say, I mean, really, 2024 is about where they'll balance. You know, they'll be slightly below because of the TRA savings, et cetera, but that'll only be a couple of percentage points. I would model them being even from 2024.

Marc Bianchi
Managing Director, Cowen

Super. Thanks so much. I'll turn it back.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Thanks. Thanks.

Operator

Our next question will come from Roger Read with Wells Fargo. You may now go ahead.

Roger Read
Senior Energy Analyst, Wells Fargo

Yeah. Thank you. Good morning.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Good morning.

Roger Read
Senior Energy Analyst, Wells Fargo

Chris, maybe a question for you kind of follows up a little bit on the last one as you talked about integrating some of the eFrac, digiFrac stuff in there. I was just curious, as you look at the pricing you're putting through, the net pricing you're achieving in the new equipment, do you think you're, at this point, close to pricing what digiFrac brings to the market, or is there an uplift there relative to conventional approach?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Well, I mean, look, the obvious thing is the huge difference between diesel and natural gas pricing as a power source today is just huge. I mean, number one, to the customer, there's just a dramatic cost savings. Remember, again, this is a highly high thermal efficiency. It's actually gonna burn much less gas than these small turbines that are out there powering fleets. There's a meaningful cost saving advantage in digiFrac that is huge interest in that. There's a lower emissions component. Ultimately, we think, there's gonna be also a meaningful performance uplift. Probably to fully realize value of all those pieces, that's gonna take some time. We got to get them out there, prove them, show them, see them. I mean, people are paying a premium for them today, but will that premium likely grow in the next 12 months? Well, I think highly likely.

Roger Read
Senior Energy Analyst, Wells Fargo

Definitely some things to think about on the longer term there. Changing gears just a little bit, Michael, for you. As we think about the big build in working capital this quarter, following up on sort of the cash tax question, how should we think about a seasonal slowdown potentially affecting that? Or are we just in, you know, with business ramping up and for a period of general consumption of cash on the balance sheet?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. Generally, our working capital amount follows our revenue, right? If we have Q4 is gonna be relatively flat, working capital will be relatively flat. You know, we will have growth next year. Working capital will grow in line with that top line growth. Really it comes down to our DSO don't change, our DPO don't change. Those are the two major drivers. Really, as you think about it, you can just model those in line.

Roger Read
Senior Energy Analyst, Wells Fargo

That's it for me. Thank you.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks, Roger.

Operator

Our next question will come from Luke Lemoine with Capital One Securities. You may now go ahead.

Luke Lemoine
anaging Director of Energy and Environmental Equipment and Services, Capital One Securities

Hey, good morning, Piper Sandler. Chris, just a question on your next-gen fleet investments kind of on a go-forward basis. Can we assume that these are almost all digiFrac, or is there still a component of customers asking for Tier 4 DGB upgrades?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

It will be a mix of the two. You know, we're still doing fleet upgrades, Tier 2 to Tier 2 dual fuel, Tier 4 to Tier 4 DGB. Look, it's probably gonna be dominantly skewed to digiFrac, but not necessarily exclusively.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Think of it like this, when you completely blow up an engine, you're gonna replace it with like a Tier 4 engine. You know, you're gonna replace it with a Tier 4 dual fuel, right? It's more of an incremental move. It's on a pump by pump basis.

Luke Lemoine
anaging Director of Energy and Environmental Equipment and Services, Capital One Securities

Okay, got it. Thanks a bunch.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks, Luke.

Operator

All right. Our next question will come from Keith Mackey with RBC Capital Markets. You may now go ahead.

Keith Mackey
Director of Global Equity Research and Oil and Gas Services, RBC Capital Markets

Hey, good morning, and thanks. I just wanted to maybe start off on your customer makeup. Any commentary you can give on, you know, the public versus privates in your, say, current fleet count? How does that marry up with the results of your customer survey calling for slightly higher fleet demand next year versus this year?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

We don't obviously publish the Liberty frac fleet count region by region. You know, look, I think you're seeing where our fleets are deployed, it's reasonably reflective of who are running drilling rigs. You know, privates today are like 55% of the drilling rigs. They're 55% of the activity. You know, majors were a very small slice. They grew a little bit. They shrunk a fair amount during COVID. They're probably coming back slower than the others. Yeah, maybe they're gonna be a little bit bigger contributor to growth going forward than, you know, privates are. Privates came running hard out of the gate. There'll be a little change of the mix next year, for sure, but not huge. Not hugely.

Keith Mackey
Director of Global Equity Research and Oil and Gas Services, RBC Capital Markets

Got it. Thanks for that. Maybe just to follow up, stepping back a little further, would you say the last six months has altered your view on what you see as a mid-cycle profitability per fleet in kind of that $14 million-$18 million, whether it's, you know, core pumping profitability or opportunity to increase vertical integration through time?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah, I mean, well, there's one is sort of the supply and demand and market conditions that drive that cycle and where mid-cycle is. Yeah, you know, right now things are strong, and the outlook still is pretty good. Yeah, there's, you know, this could be a more positive macro cycle than the last one or two. We don't know. I mean, there's a good chance of that. Sure. It looks like it so far. Then there's also this sort of self-help things that we can continue to improve internally to just have a better differential model than our competitors, and that's also an inflator in our profitability. But, I probably shouldn't comment any more beyond that. Michael, anything you want to add?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

No. The other thing is obviously our investment in next-generation fleets, which drives down cost of operation and drives down fuel costs. I mean, that's all the investment and the technology is being driven by us and the investment of the capital is by us. Obviously that will accrete to us and therefore increase that mid-cycle number.

Keith Mackey
Director of Global Equity Research and Oil and Gas Services, RBC Capital Markets

Perfect. Thanks very much.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Operator

Our next question will come from Dan Kutz with Morgan Stanley. You may now go ahead.

Dan Kutz
VP of Equity Research, Morgan Stanley

Hey, thanks. Good morning. I just wanna ask, I guess, about the labor portion of the supply chain. Impressive that you guys were able to staff those six incremental fleets, I think you said in a 90-day period. Should we read that as that kinda some of the labor challenges are abating somewhat, or were you guys able to accomplish that in spite of, you know, not really seeing relief on that front?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

The labor challenges definitely are abating a little bit. You know, I mean, nine months ago, 12 months ago, just crazy hard. I would say labor market today is still very tight, still. You know, if you got rid of the last two years, I'd say it's probably the toughest hiring market we've been in since we started the company. That's the caveat, it was worse. It was worse 12 months ago. It was worse six months ago. Labor problem is slightly improving.

That's true. Also I think our, you know, our dedicated recruiting team and maybe just the character of the crew leaders, all the people leading these crews, new crews, they've all been with Liberty for a while. Between recruiting and those crew leaders, that's just we think a little bit of a different atmosphere to welcome people into. My hat's off to our team that did a great job in a challenging market.

Dan Kutz
VP of Equity Research, Morgan Stanley

Great. Got it. That's helpful. Maybe just kind of thinking about the other components of the supply chain, and you guys have made some comments on some of those components already, but just wondering if you could kind of roll up any trends that you're seeing in some of the other parts of supply chain, whether things are improving, moving sideways, getting worse. Just any general thoughts outside of labor would be great.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

There's still meaningful challenges, you know. Large equipment. I mean, engines and engine rebuilds, you know, which are a big part of our industry, they're still on allocation. You know, they're happening, but there's still, you know, challenges there.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. Slight improvement in the sand logistics market. Over-the-road trucking rates have come down, so you've got some more truckers that have come back to the oil, you know, coming back to the oil patch. We're seeing some relief there. I'd say chemical markets reasonably flat, probably, you know, a hair better than they were earlier in the year, and that's sort of the main issue. I'd say probably the biggest struggle is still those sort of heavy equipment style electronics parts that we share with a large amount of the other economies. Yeah, other parts of the economy.

Dan Kutz
VP of Equity Research, Morgan Stanley

Great. Thanks a lot, guys. Thanks for squeezing me in. I'll turn it back.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

See you, Dan. Have a good one.

Operator

Our next question will come from John Daniel with Daniel Energy Partners. You may now go ahead.

John Daniel
Founder and President, Daniel Energy Partners

Hey, guys. Thank you for including me and for going over the hour.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah.

John Daniel
Founder and President, Daniel Energy Partners

I just want to go back to the vertical integration questions that were sort of raised earlier. You know, just sounds like you guys would call that a competitive advantage. Which would seem reasonable to me. I'm just wondering if it is a competitive advantage on, say, like, the sand, you know, should Liberty, you know, look at, you know, bolstering a sand presence outside of the Permian to support the other geographic basins you're in? Or should it extend into other products such as, you know, chemicals? Just your thoughts.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Again, it's a bottom-up thing, not a top-down philosophical thing. Look, if we've got reliable sand, you know, at reasonable economics, it's. We don't have to be owning part of the supply chain. If it looks like it's gonna add to the security of supply of our business and the economics are compelling, it's not impossible we would do something like that. You know, we haven't made some decision that we're gonna own X% of all the sand we pump. We just always, you know, philosophically, we wanna make sure our fleets can keep running and we can deliver a differential performance versus what others in our industry are gonna provide to customers. For us, it's what is necessary to deliver that.

John Daniel
Founder and President, Daniel Energy Partners

Okay. Well, going back to sand. Chris, are there any efforts to expand your capacity just with the existing operations in the Permian?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

We are doing that. We have done that.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

We are.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

We continue to do that.

John Daniel
Founder and President, Daniel Energy Partners

Okay. Fair enough. The six fleets that were deployed in Q3, I think you said all of your fleets that operate today are dedicated or. I don't know if I misheard that. If you could talk about that. The second, the follow-up is, are any of these fleets that are being reactivated, are they being viewed as, for lack of a better term, a bridge for that next for the digiFrac, such that those would go to back to the yard at some point? That's it for me.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. Look, I said we don't play in the spot market, which is true. You know, with the efficiency of a fleet today, there are certainly good, solid, sizable customers out there that are less than a full frac fleet of work. We'll do all of their frac work. We'll balance it. Maybe it'd be called a multi-customer fleet. We'll balance it from.

John Daniel
Founder and President, Daniel Energy Partners

Right.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Work from others. We may have a key customer, then their workload is one and a half fleets, and we'll do all of that, and then we'll balance that other half with another customer or customers to fill that. We're not like, you know, bidding on 22 things to see what we can get the best pricing on to go in. We don't really play that game. We do have fleets that are moving between multiple customers. Then things happen, gaps open up. You know, somebody's got logistical problem or a supply chain problem or drilling problem or an offset pad problem.

We try to always keep a suite of people that would like to have Liberty on location that we can call up on shorter notice and move those fleets, you know, to different pads if hiccups happen. Of course, hiccups happen, and they're happening a little more than normal, I would say, these days and because of all the stuff we've been talking about with supply chain. On the reactivation, yeah, there are customers that really want a digiFrac fleet before they get a frac program going now. Of course, there are some where that's, you know, we've got a different fleet working for them now, and as the digiFrac becomes available and those things go in, those fleets will be phased out. Yeah, I don't think you're gonna s ee a huge growth in the Liberty fleet count going forward.

John Daniel
Founder and President, Daniel Energy Partners

Fair enough. I'm gonna squeeze one more in for Michael. I don't know if you would have this data in front of you, but the addition of the six fleets and all those people is pretty impressive. I'm curious, as the new hires have been hired, how many of the folks are coming that are not part of the industry already? They're truly, you know, new to oil and gas versus guys that might be, or gals, switching from one service company to another. Any color you might have handy?

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Yeah. I'd say generally the majority of our hires are from outside. I don't have the numbers for this, these six fleets, whether or not, you know, kind of that was a larger version of experienced. We've picked up a lot of experienced people. I mean, Liberty is actually seen as probably the best place to work, I believe, you know, in the industry for that, you know, for a number of different reasons, the culture, the schedule, et cetera. It's always a balance between the two. You know, we have a lot of veterans, we have a lot of people coming off farms, a lot of people coming out of other industries, you know, coming and joining us.

John Daniel
Founder and President, Daniel Energy Partners

Fair enough. All right. Thank you all very much.

Michael Stock
CFO, Liberty Energy

Thanks, John.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks, John.

Operator

Our next question will be a follow-up from Stephen Gengaro with Stifel. You may now go ahead.

Stephen Gengaro
Managing Director, Stifel

Oh, thanks for taking the follow-up, gentlemen. Just a quick one. Can you give us a sense of where is spot pricing now versus the prior peak? Any sense?

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

We're not the right guy to ask because we're not that plugged into, you know, the spot market. You know, if you're buying. Let me answer a different way. The frac pricing today, think of longer term or dedicated or bigger piece of fracking, it's still well below what it was four years ago, you know, to an if you're an E&P operator. There's still efficiency gains in our industry that are meaningful in driving down the break-even cost of a barrel of oil. Prices dropped crazy low in the COVID downturn, as they do in all downturns. They bounced back, so our profitability is back as good as it ever was. The all-in pricing to a customer on the other end is still well below where it was.

Stephen Gengaro
Managing Director, Stifel

Yeah. No, that's why I was asking, 'cause the profitability has gotten to such a strong level. I was just curious how that relates to price. That's helpful.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks, Stephen.

Stephen Gengaro
Managing Director, Stifel

Thank you.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

Thanks.

Operator

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the comments back over to Chris for any closing remarks.

Chris Wright
CEO, Liberty Energy

I thank everyone for their time and thoughtful questions today. Most importantly, thank everyone in the Liberty family and our customers and suppliers and everyone out there working 24/7 every day to make the world a better place to live. Appreciate all of you. We'll talk to you next quarter.

Operator

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.

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