Well, good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to day two of Oppenheimer's 19th Annual Industrial Growth Conference. I'm Noah Kaye, Managing Director in Oppenheimer's Sustainable Growth and Resource Optimization Research Practice. We're really happy to have the management team of Lennox back at our conference, and so let me bring in and welcome Alok Maskara, CEO, Michael Quenzer, CFO. Thank you both, gentlemen, for, for being here. Looking forward to a great discussion.
Thanks, Noah, for having us. Excited to be here.
I would love to start with the residential HVAC side of the business. You know, as we lap a year of volume declines and start to see positive volumes in the direct channel, you know, how do you assess the overall health of the residential market and Lennox's competitive position within the market?
Sure. You know, I've been positively surprised by the health of the residential market. You know, for a while, for two years, we've been waiting for a consumer recession that has not happened and was only six months away. From where we look at it, there has been stocking destocking that created noise in the market, which means sales number for 2022 and 2021 were probably higher than they should have been, and 2023 and 2024 are gonna be slightly lower than they should have been. But the health of the market is strong. We don't see any shift from replacement to repair. We don't see any underlying phenomenon that's causing a consumer to not replace an unit that's 14-16 years old. If anything, we see that because of our 2022 units, because of higher cost for labor, the replacement market remains strong.
So nothing worrisome in the core end market on residential HCS side. Our position remains strong. We had a five-year slump that started with the tornado and probably ended sometime in 2021, 2022. We are out of the slump. We are not, like, you know, punching above our weight yet, but that's our goal is, we are out of the slump. We are back to normal. We gained share last year like we used to six years ago. We think that trend continues. Just the basics around making sure our fulfillment rates are good, making sure we are acting as a good distributor, making sure we are pricing appropriately, a lot of those things. So we feel good about our position in the industry. We like our direct-to-dealer model. We like our expansion opportunity through two-step and Allied. We feel good on where we stand right now.
To what degree can you quantify, you know, do you consider your pricing still below market level in this business? And what type of customer retention are you seeing when you bring it to market level?
So I think our pricing, if you think about where we got upside down, below market, was in some of our key accounts. These were contracts we signed, right after the tornado, pre-COVID, that we were stuck on pricing. And over the past 18 months, we have been able to go and reprice most of those. So that's a positive. Now, in quite a few cases, we could not get them all the way up to market pricing. Just the numbers and the relationships were too big. So I think there's another 12-18 months where we start getting them back to market price. On the remaining portion of the business, we believe we are competitively and market priced, and we are in good shape. And so between now and the next 18 months, we should be back to market pricing and capture the full value of our products.
While we will have some customer attrition that's normal, we don't think we are gonna lose significant share as part of this overall effort.
Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about the shift to decentralized pricing? I guess at a high level, why do this? What have the results been? What does this imply about, you know, ability to get and retain pricing at stronger levels going forward?
Sure. I'll give you a simple example to make a point, Noah. If you go to Miami-Dade County and you look at pricing there for an HVAC unit versus if you go to Madison, Wisconsin, and look for pricing AC units, there's a huge difference in those two. Miami's much more competitive, more heat pump-driven, versus Madison, Wisconsin is not that competitive compared to Miami. And the pricing level should be different. We, unfortunately, were blind to that, and we were pricing it the same on a national basis. So guess what? You go down to the lowest common denominator, and you set the price at that level. Based on regional and local pricing, we are now gonna price based on local market conditions, based on local dynamics, and based on availability.
Often in certain cases, if you have availability and somebody else does not, you can get a higher price premium. You would only know that based on local feedback and market. Take it to next step and why Madison, go to West Bend, Wisconsin, and you have even more local pricing dynamics versus selling it in Dallas-Fort Worth Metro region. So that's the reason we are looking at local pricing. And we found by analytics that when we make local pricing, we had higher margins. So it wasn't just based on some hunch. We went through significant analytics to do that. And we finally benchmark others, whether it's SiteOne or Watsco or PoolCorp, any of the well-run distributors.
Yeah.
They do exactly what we are doing now or we are moving towards. We've broken into five regional P&Ls with districts underneath, each of them gonna run, make their own decisions, make decision on everything from investments to which products to sell and which pricing. And that's a model which will take us a while to get to, Noah, but we are super excited about the impact that it delivered to our shareholders.
And certainly with respect to pricing trajectory, you know, there's gonna be some noise around price mix related to the refrigerant transition, and we'll get to that in a minute. I guess just how do you think more broadly once we get through the transition about what sustained price growth can be like in this industry? You know, is it low single digit, mid single digit?
I think it's in a low to mid single digit. And I'm avoiding your question almost by saying that, Noah. But depends on the inflation, right? I mean, if the inflation continues at 2%-3%, I think we should be in a 3%-4% pricing range. If inflation goes down to 0, who knows? Like, you know, then maybe it comes down. But from our perspective, the pricing from a manufacturer to a dealer has got very little connection from pricing from a dealer to a consumer. There's so much labor. There's so much supply. There's so much markup. And what we have to do as manufacturers is continue investing in digital, continue investing in technology such as heat pump so we can get the appropriate price for that. So I'm pretty bullish about pricing.
At the end of the day, Porter's Five Forces and strategy holds, you know. Four large OEMs have 85% of the market share. Seven large OEMs have 100% of their market share. They're all profit-minded. I mean, this is a good price discipline market.
So, on the refrigerant transition, you know, you put out some clear expectations, and thank you for that, around the future mix. Do you have any timeline around getting EPA clarity on treatment of components? And, how could different scenarios for how that plays out affect the company and the industry?
Sure. You know, honestly, I was expecting some clarity by now. Hopefully it comes in the next two to three months. Given that it's election year, we may not get any clarity until elections. So all of those are possibilities. We are working along with other manufacturers through our trade association to try and get answers and influence. But at this stage, all our numbers assume that we may not get any further clarity from EPA, and the component rules remain as it is. It's gonna be a hard one for the government to change during an election year. And even there's an article this morning in Wall Street Journal that talks about how the government's coming for your air conditioners, things like that. So just we'll see. Like, you know, I hope we get clarity, but if not, we're equally prepared.
They can have mine. It's old. I need a new one. I'll talk to you about that after this. Just thinking about heat pump adoption, you know, it's an interesting point that was made in earlier chat that the actual sell-through of heat pumps has been more resilient than, you know, shipment data from AHRI. May just talk to us about where heat pumps now sit as a percentage of your mix and how you're thinking about growth prospects and capacity planning for heat pumps?
Sure. Michael will take that for us.
Sure. Just to give a little background of the industry on the residential side, industry shipments of heat pumps, which include ductless mini splits and just traditional split system heat pumps, are about 30% of the industry. We are about 15% of our shipments that are heat pumps. So we're a little bit behind the industry, but that's mostly because of where our market share is in the geographies, in the Midwest and the North. We think we have industry-leading product offerings. So it's, it isn't so much a, a product issue. It's more a geography issue. But as the heat pump technology continues to move up in the North, we continue to see that we're gonna gain more heat pump shares there.
If you look at it from an economics perspective, the system cost of a heat pump, the sales that we get are similar to that of a traditional air conditioning system with a furnace. Margins are actually a little bit better on a heat pump system. So economically, it's good. We wanna give our, our consumers options, and we can manufacture both of those through our, our existing facilities. So we're prepared to either way where the industry goes. But we do think over time, it's gonna move more toward, toward the heat pumps, maybe get closer to 50% of the industry over the next several years instead of 30%.
Very helpful. We're gonna spend some time in a bit about distribution. But before we do that, I wanna get to commercial. Maybe you can quantify to what extent you're still underproducing demand you'd like to take. And at what point in the Saltillo fan factory ramp would you have the capacity for the current demand you're seeing?
Yeah, that's right. For the past several years, we have been manufacturing constrained and production constrained at our existing factory in Stuttgart, Arkansas. Really, at this point, we don't really see the right sizing of our network of factory output happening until mid-2025 when we get the new factory online. And at that point, when you look at the two factories combined, we should be able to have at least 20% output capacity. So we'll see that coming online later this year, but get fully ramped up by mid-next year where that we'll see that additional incremental 20% output coming from both factories.
Okay. And you called out, I think, in the guide of $5 million-$10 million inefficiencies related to the Saltillo ramp.
Yeah.
Maybe how do we think about the impact of margins as we exit the year just between the lower margin business that you might start to take on and, and, you know, on the positive side, better manufacturing overhead absorption?
Yeah. So first, the $5 million-$10 million, that's kind of a transitory cost that we're gonna experience this year as we ramp the factory up. We saw $2 million in the first quarter. We'll see a little bit more in the second quarter as we have cost for that factory but no output. But then it should start to get better. And we'll start to see Q3 and Q4 that we'll get some absorption. So the run rates will get better into next year. On the comment of going after lower margin business, that's correct. We are gonna go after emergency replacement. But actually, from a margin perspective, the margins on that offering, it's very similar to other product channel offering. It has a lower average sales price, but margin percentage is very similar. So, don't see much of a margin headwind there.
But yeah, we're definitely focused on getting back in emergency replacement as we get that 20% production capacity online.
Got it. So lower ASP, you know, comparable margins. Maybe talk to the dynamics around reentering this emergency replacement market. And what might the opportunities be around, you know, cross-selling or upselling, you know, service? Do you have more of a service presence now following some acquisitions, part sales?
Sure. Yeah. And it's gonna be a multi-year opportunity here. I mean, the first thing we're gonna try to do is go back to some of our residential dealers that we're not currently supplying this emergency replacement to and have that offering. So that's gonna be some low-hanging fruit. But also on our two-step channel where we go through Allied distributors, the Allied brand, we haven't been able to win a lot of new distributors because they want both a consistent supply of residential and commercial products. So we're gonna be able to kinda go address both of those opportunities to win some share back. That's gonna be the first focus. Also have some opportunities on upselling parts. Most of those part sales initiatives are through our overall better being a better distributor initiative, not specific to emergency replacement.
But having this additional factory is not only gonna let us go after emergency replacement; we're gonna be able to go back in national accounts because we're gonna be able to have, you know, consistent product offering for the configured product as well so we can win with the big retail national accounts, in some of those national accounts that we haven't been able to win over the past several years.
So we're seeing the impacts of that Saltillo factory in terms of the CapEx spend and you know the CapEx intensity should start to abate presumably after that. What could the next major CapEx investment look like for the company? And this is really a leading question around where you expect growth to come from.
Yeah. Well, first, just from a capital expenditure perspective, yeah, we have most of the capacity behind us. We've done two big capital expenditure programs last year and this year. So we think our capacity at least is in line for some of those big investments. Yeah. So the next investments are really gonna be focused on distribution information systems to help our fulfillment rates, advance our mobile applications to really help our contractors be more efficient, and then also innovate our thermostats. So that's really where the next level of capital expenditures are gonna be focused on, that customer experience and getting back and winning share. From a capital expenditure perspective, though, we're gonna be much closer to the $100 million first, the $175.
So it's gonna help us support our overall cash generation goal of getting to about 95% of net income as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Getting back to that $100 million run rate. Great, great transition, because I think you have a lot to say and investors are very curious around, you know, the distribution growth strategy. And I guess I would start by framing it this way. You know, you highlighted the opportunity to realize OEM plus distributor margin on sales, you know, just starting with your direct channel strength. Can you maybe help us quantify this opportunity and then what your strategy is to go after that margin?
Sure. And I think from our perspective, we find ourselves in a unique position to be able to do both. As you know, we have 250 outlets across the corporation. We distribute our own 70% of the products. But as we took a different view and find that we are in the top two HVAC distributor in North America, Watsco being one, us being number two, maybe Ferguson's three, or maybe we are number three. We were definitely in the top three.
We need to learn how to be a better distributor. Michael refers to that. The three core aspects that we are focused on that is one is just culture, talent, pay-for-performance, the whole people aspect of it. How do we get people who know how to be a good distributor? How do we give local flexibility to do the local pricing decision, but more importantly, local assortment decision? Like, you know, retailers learned that the long way that if you give store managers the flexibility in keeping what sells in the store, they sell more of it. We were still doing things centrally to pay-for-performance. Second big bucket is, I would just say, our physical network optimization. You know, we are not very efficient at moving boxes from our factories to our stores. We have a very old, antiquated system, and we need to get better.
We need to be able to leverage our commercial sales better as well. There's a, like, quite a bit of just efficiency there because we have not updated everything from our WMS systems to technology behind it. And finally, the last piece that comes down to is 80% of our sales, maybe even 85% of our sales through this, are products made by Lennox versus a good distributor like Watsco or SiteOne. I mean, they sell 40% parts and supplies.
Right.
Some even 50%. So we should be able to flip that number from 15% parts and supplies to 30, 40, 50, some number higher than that. So if you go back, think through it, like, you know, we're trying to build a better pipe as a distributor. We need to put more products through the pipe. And when we have better processes and culture to manage that pipe, all three together gets us significant improvement in our margins and accelerates our growth as well. So we are super excited about it. It's a long journey, though, Noah. This is not gonna be a three-month or one-year journey. I mean, these are long-term changes that'll take us three to five years to get to the end goal here.
Yeah. Where, where, where are you so far in that journey? Maybe talk through those three different elements you identified, and kinda give us a sense of what's been going on with the company.
Early, early innings, just to give you a reference, Shina. I mean, some of the leadership changes, like five regional P&Ls, we announced that last year. It gets fully operational by the end of this year. Some of the incentive comp changes, we are making the first phase of that in mid-year this year. And then second phase would be beginning of 2025. Very early innings. I mean, physical distribution network, we got two new RDCs that we have announced and moved. We have many more of those to go through. And, like, you know, going back to it links back to some of the emergency replacement Michael mentioned as well. So moving commercial products on the same freight lane as we move our residential products and the warehouses, all of that is kind of early innings. So very early innings on that, Noah.
I think we have a strong vision. We have got some really good talent. We are working through technology investments, which are a critical, critical part of this to link all the technology back to our consumer and the customer and how it makes a difference.
So very early innings. I mean, if we land up having an investor day next year, that would be this topic will need to be flushed out more. We are nowhere close to getting results here.
It's something for us to look forward to, you know, certainly. The prospect of bringing in, you know, the parts, non-Lennox parts, that would presumably require, you know, some key partnerships, right? And so maybe talk through a little bit what that could look like, you know, the types of parts. I mean, I assume we're talking about things like compressors, etc., but just how you would sort of frame up that opportunity or what that ecosystem could look like.
Sure. I think it starts by having the vision, which we now have finalized and strategy. We are putting some processes and talent in place. Like, you know, we've created a new group, that's focused on this. We call it the Sourced Products Group, going after some stuff what GE used to do very well, and just doing that. So putting that together. Yes, I would expect quite a few partnerships in the near future on key products, everything from motors to ductworks to controls to mini splits. I mean, those are all different categories that we are exploring to get partnerships and do that. So I would expect all of that. Some of them are gonna be big partnerships. Some are just gonna be sourcing arrangements, you know. The way you buy motors and compressors has become pretty commoditized.
Those may or may not be partnerships, just good sourcing arrangements.
And again, I mean, I'm sorry. I feel like we're asking for information that, you know, you're gonna give us more on in a year or so. But just as we think about the actual technologies that can help improve distribution, and you know, visibility into operations, it would seem to be things to me like, you know, just tracking SKUs, inventory management, maybe talk to what you have in place today and maybe what some of the gaps are that you'd like to address.
Sure. You know, we overall are in good spots. I mean, not a bad spot, but this we could be in a much better spot. We are just finishing up updating our WMS, our warehouse management system, right? So a lot of investment went into that to get something more modern and up-to-date. Next step for us is obviously fixing our SIOP process or demand. I mean, if we fix our demand forecasting process, which using a lot of AI tools to be able to do that, our fill rate needs to go up much closer to 98% compared to last year. We were in the 80s. And a lot of that's gonna be a demand planning deployment. Often, we have inventory. We just don't have it in the store that demands it, right?
I was talking with some dealers, and I was like, "Look, I have so many air conditioning in stock." He goes, "Well, none in my store, so it doesn't matter to me, Alok. So we gotta fix our RDC technology to use that." Finally, the last piece is connected all back to the dealer and consumer. Remember, LennoxPros are star flagship. 50% of our sales now are going through all digital. Now, when somebody goes and buys a unit, a pop-in comes in, and we have these accessories in stock for you at your local store. Would you like to add that in the cart? We use AI capabilities to be able to do that and link it back to diagnostic, prognostic of saying, "Hey, you got an alert. So-and-so consumer's unit is not working very well. Chances are you need this new motor.
By the way, we have this motor in stock at the Lennox store. Do you wanna pick that up before you go to the consumer house for a repair?" Putting that entire ecosystem together, we are the only ones who can do this because, again, we manufacture our own product. We make our own thermostat. We put this system together. We don't have to worry about compatibility of different manufacturers. So all three levels go into physically moving the goods, actually getting the demand right and making sure the right products at the right store, and finally, the consumer aspect of it so that the dealer really benefits and gains out of it. We believe our technology footprint in this area is second to none and is getting better as we keep getting this invested and link it all together.
It's very helpful, you know, in terms of putting the entire ecosystem, you know, together. You mentioned a number of different offerings. I wanna talk a little bit about service, and how you plan to utilize ServiceTitan partnership to better align with dealers and then users. Can you speak to that?
Sure. What we want is LennoxPros to become the platform through which our dealers live and die by, right? But they also use other offerings. ServiceTitan is one. So what we are creating is a new digital ecosystem where we are creating APIs. So our product will have APIs that go with key partners like ServiceTitan. And there are many others to come so that our dealers can rely on our information, our products, and use other software that's compatible to them. So that's what the whole ServiceTitan is. You know, I think ServiceTitan has features that we would never have, such as telephony, such as, like, you know, CRM, which we won't be able to do cost-effectively in our own platform. So that's a good example of the type of partnerships we'll be doing on the digital thing because it's becoming an ecosystem for the dealer.
We wanted to make it very easy for our dealers to sell Lennox products, to quote Lennox products, to service Lennox products, and at the same time, do the billing, invoicing, CRM with whatever platform they choose. So happy with the ServiceTitan partnership, but we'll do more of those to make sure we are part of the dealer's ecosystem, the primary part of the dealer's ecosystem.
I wanna ask you about M&A. And I think you were very clear that you do not need to be acquisitive to drive shareholder value creation. And I would say in light of everything you just discussed around the distribution opportunity, and organic growth and around commercial, that's very clear. But with all that said, just talk about how you're evaluating opportunities, you know, certainly related to the JCI HVAC assets. And maybe you can just speak more broadly to market and technology-related opportunities, and certainly how you might think about managing international exposure following recent ventures.
Sure. Let's start with the international exposure, right, because we left some of our international businesses last year. In the town hall yesterday, some employee asked me about going to air conditioning in Dubai. And I said, "No, we are not gonna enter that market, right? We don't bring anything to the table." And I think they're fundamentally different markets. So our appetite for large, broad international expansion is low, very low. Our appetite for leveraging international technologies such as heat pump technologies, such as compressor technologies, such as mini split technology, VRF technology, that is high. So I think that's kinda what we have to look at is because I think that component market is pretty global, and that technology is pretty global. So that's the way I answer on our international exposure is we want that technology.
We would like more say in those components, and we wanna have those package units appropriately available to our dealers. That's our appetite on international. It's not a geographical appetite. It's a product or technology appetite for us. On broader M&A, listen, the industry's got seven players. We talked about this earlier. It is gonna consolidate. I think the smaller players no longer have the scale to compete, especially with the regulatory environments becoming more frequent, these changes becoming more frequent. When you go through these regulatory changes, whether you sell 1 million units or 3 million units, you still spend the same amount of R&D dollars and testing and capabilities. So bigger scale helps. We have sufficient scale to compete. And if smaller players come up on the market to sell their assets, we clearly should take a look at it.
We should take a look at it in a disciplined fashion with strong financial guardrails, which Michael has established and done a good job on, and with a clear view towards what's a better way to create shareholder value, executing on our current organic path and leveraging share buyback or doing something different. As long as we do this in an open mind, simple calculation, and remind ourselves that the goal is not to get bigger. The goal is to generate more shareholder value. I'm confident we'll make the right decision for our shareholders on any acquisitions that we look at.
It's a great answer. And I would like to drill into it a little bit more. The opportunity to gain that, you know, product exposure, whether it's to Ductless or other, you know, technologies that are more abundant internationally, maybe making their way here. What could that look like if not, you know, through, like, the JCI Avenue? Could it be a JV, of some sort? How are you thinking about those opportunities? Because you do have, obviously, some arrangements in place right now, some partnerships.
We do. Internally, we talk about we are the last pretty girl left in the dance, right? I mean, if you think about Goodman is with Daikin, Trane is with Mitsubishi, Carrier is with Toshiba. We are left. JCI is with Hitachi. Rheem is with Fujitsu. So listen, we are gonna make the right decision for our shareholders, realizing that we are the only last pretty girl at the dance. The number of international players who wanna enter the US market and bring mini split offerings is more than the fingers on my arm. I mean, there's, like, Bosch, LG, Samsung, Midea, Hisense. I mean, it can keep going on and on. So we'll make the right decision. It could be buy supply. It could be a JV. It could be something different. The key is, how do I serve my dealers better?
How do I create the right value for my shareholders? We will address both of them simultaneously.
And so where else might you have an M&A appetite, if not for sort of large product? I mean, I think, you know, we talked about distribution. It seems like you've been kind of keeping your level of actual stores fairly flattish. You know, what do you see as a pipeline of opportunities to go out for organic growth?
Sure. I'll tell you, the level of store is flattish in the short term. It is gonna go back in the growth mode. Right now, we're doing a lot more pruning because we had some, like, you know, we don't wanna store number to be a target. We want the profitability to be a target. So we're doing some pruning, but that will grow more. We'll just give us a couple of years, and we'll come back and talk about that. But the three areas of M&A that I'll focus on to answer your question, Noah, first is go back to the whole being a better distributor. Are there parts, supplies, pieces that we can sell through our stores/our distribution network? You know, we already sell coils. We already sell air handlers. Are there other businesses that we can buy and put through that?
And these are small, typical ones who don't have the distribution reach that we do. So that's one category for us, right? Second is switch to commercial for a moment. If I'm at a food service place, Chick-fil-A, and I'm trying to sell them a rooftop unit, what else can I sell them along with that so we can actually take care of the entire HVAC ecosystem? So that's, like, you know, second category of things that you gotta think through. And I just used Chick-fil-A as an example, but just think of any of our customers in there.
Sure.
Third is service. We are still highly under-penetrated in service. We did one acquisition last year, which, by the way, is turning out to be great. Everything is green on the scorecard. There are many more opportunities that we could do on service. Think of those three categories along with technology, you know? I mean, if there's cool technology that comes in, usually, we think partnership gets us there. But if not, you know, we would be looking to participate in that as well. So three core areas, plus anything new technology that could come in, especially around indoor air quality, especially around controls, especially around, like, you know, some of the dealer-sticky pieces would be the areas we would focus on. In the end, I would end anything around acquisition by saying, for us, acquisition is not a strategy.
We have a strategy, and we use acquisition to fill gaps into it.
Last question for you. You know, I think by broad metrics, you know, the company has really made a lot of progress, you know, since the last leadership transition. You know, whether it's on the commercial side, you know, with pricing, you know, pick your initiative. And so with all that said, look, why aren't you satisfied with where you're at? What does the future hold for Lennox in terms of opportunities where you think investors should really be focused? We've obviously talked about distribution. That's gonna be a big one. What do you think is still underappreciated about the opportunity facing the company today?
You know, that's interesting because I actually don't think we have made as much progress as I wanted to. I feel like I'm behind. I feel like there are a lot more opportunities here that we are working on that are either delayed or did not reach full potential. I'm not gonna go back to the distribution piece because that's just one example. We are such a prize gem with a unique go-to-business model with direct connection to our dealer. Our dealer base is probably our most valuable asset that's still highly under-leveraged. I mean, could we be selling more products to them? Could we be looking at more commercial emergency replacement products through them? That's just the beginning. On productivity, we lost our way over the past few years and didn't get through because of COVID and supply chain. There's so much more productivity initiatives we could get to.
And finally, as we look at, we are not done with pricing, you know? With pricing, we are starting that journey. I mean, there's so much more sophisticated pricing. You know, the Pricing Excellence book by Mike Marn and my McKinsey colleagues in there is something that's still close dear to my heart. I keep giving that book to every new pricing person I hire. And there's so much more we can do. We haven't even done proper micro-segmentation in pricing to get fully the benefit. We are tagging the low-hanging fruits of key account contracts. That's not what pricing excellence is. Pricing excellence is a much deeper level. So no, we have so much more. And our multiples are still below other industry players. I mean, from all of that perspective, I don't feel satisfied with where I am.
I actually feel like we have a lot more potential ahead than where we came from.
You focus on that pricing, productivity, and margin performance that multiple will sort itself out, so.
I'm sure it will. We pay the least attention to that.
We appreciate the thoughtful discussion, as always. We hope everyone has a great remaining day and several days at the conference. We look forward to additional meetings with the company. Thank you all. Thank you for the time here today.