Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the third quarter Louisiana-Pacific Corporation earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in listening only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there'll be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone.
You will then hear an automated message advising you that your hand is raised. Please be advised today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Aaron Howald, Vice President, Investor Relations and Business Development. Please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss LP's results for the third quarter of 2022, as well as our updated outlook for the fourth quarter and full year. As the operator said, my name is Aaron Howald, and I am LP's Vice President of Investor Relations and Business Development. I'm joined this morning by Brad Southern, LP's Chief Executive Officer, and Alan Haughie, LP's Chief Financial Officer.
During this morning's conference call and webcast, we will refer to an accompanying presentation that is available on LP's IR webpage, which is investor.lpcorp.com. Our 8-K filing is also available there, along with our earnings press release and various other materials. Statements regarding Non-GAAP financial metrics and forward-looking statements are available on slides two and three of the earnings presentation.
The appendix also contains reconciliations that are further supplemented by this morning's 8-K filing. Rather than reading those statements, I incorporate them herein by reference. With that, I will turn the call over to Brad.
Thanks, Aaron. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss LP's results for the third quarter and our full-year outlook. As you all know, the third quarter saw a significant slowdown in single-family housing starts, which no doubt contributed to the normalization of OSB prices. This is a challenge for commodity OSB results, but also provides an opportunity to demonstrate the value of LP's transformation against the backdrop of a slowdown in new residential construction.
LP's strategic focus on the repair and remodel market segment and higher value-added specialty products drove continued growth. In fact, the siding segment generated more revenue than the OSB segment in Q3. Within OSB, the majority of the revenue came from the more specialized structural solutions portfolio. Our disciplined capital allocation strategy continues to prioritize and support investment in the capacity necessary to enable future growth.
Pages five and six of the presentation show some high-level results for the quarter. LP earned $200 million in EBITDA in the quarter and received about another $200 million in net proceeds from the EWP sale. In Q3, we invested $86 million in capital projects to drive future growth and returned $341 million to shareholders, the bulk of which was spent to repurchase 5.6 million shares.
LP ended the quarter with a very strong balance sheet, including $482 million in cash and over $1 billion in available liquidity. Page seven shows more detail on Siding Solutions growth. Recall, only about 40% of Siding volume goes into the single-family new construction, with a growing majority dedicated to R&R, sheds, and other DIY applications.
Through Q3, single-family starts fell by about 5% on a trailing twelve-month basis. In contrast, Siding Solutions volume grew by 6% and price increased by 13% over the past twelve months. Comparing only the third quarter, single-family starts were down 18% compared to last year, but Siding sales grew by 27%, with SmartSide and ExpertFinish both setting new records for volume and price in the quarter.
In both Siding and Structural Solutions, product innovation continues to drive growth. In Siding, new products made up 11% of volume and generated 15% of Siding's revenue in the quarter. ExpertFinish and BuilderSeries are the fastest-growing product categories within Siding, where ExpertFinish volume grew by 48%. Structural Solutions volume grew by 10% compared to prior year quarter.
The newest addition to the Structural Solutions portfolio, NovaCore Insulated Sheathing, officially launched last week. NovaCore launch is a priceless product not connected to random lengths. LP is committed to making the investments necessary to continue this growth and innovation. Slide 8 shows an update on our strategic capacity planning.
Houlton remains ahead of schedule and should finish the year running near full rated capacity. Sagola, Michigan, which is the next Siding press capacity addition after Houlton, will cease OSB production this week to start the final phases of the conversion process. This will remove roughly 420 million sq ft of OSB capacity, and once fully up and running, add about 320 million sq ft of siding capacity annually, bringing total siding capacity to about 2.3 billion sq ft.
Sagola is expected to produce SmartSide in Q1 of next year and should ramp up at about the same rate that Houlton has, progressing from panel and soffit, then ultimately to lap and trim, with roughly linear ramp-up from start to full production run rate over three to four quarters. For ExpertFinish, the expansion of LP's finishing facility in Green Bay is nearly complete.
The latest project in Bath, New York will add ExpertFinish capacity in the strategically important Northeastern market. This project remains on schedule, with production expected to begin in Q2 of 2023. Today, we can announce two more capacity additions in the siding business. Pending final approvals from state and local regulators and other stakeholders, we will build on the success of the Houlton conversion project by expanding that mill.
This project will add a new forming line and press, with Houlton joining Hayward as our second two-line siding facility. New siding production there should begin in mid- to late 2024 and will more than double Houlton's capacity, improving the utilization of shared green end and finishing processes. Houlton's second line will bring total siding press capacity to roughly 2.6 billion sq ft.
To accelerate ExpertFinish growth, we plan to add a new facility in Washington State to better serve the growing pre-finished siding markets in the Pacific Northwest. Compared to the 2021 capacity baseline for ExpertFinish, expansion over our existing pre-finish facilities, plus new capacity at the New York and Washington sites, puts LP on a path to more than double pre-finishing capacity by the end of 2023. We are on pace to double ExpertFinish capacity again by 2025.
These projects will add scale, efficiency, and geographic range while simultaneously driving down cost. We believe that the long-term fundamentals for housing and R&R remain very favorable despite near-term turbulence, and we are investing to meet that demand. Given our current visibility into order files, inventory levels, and the capacity expansions that I just outlined, we anticipate remaining on managed order file for prime products at least until Sagola provides meaningful volume in Q2 of next year, and potentially throughout 2023 for ExpertFinish.
In order to ensure that we can generate value over the long term, we remain focused on enhancing our sustainable business model. This includes long-term access to responsibly managed fiber resources, efficient production processes that minimize waste and emissions, carbon-negative products that sequester more CO2 than is emitted in their manufacturing distribution, and building a team that is welcoming and inclusive for all who have the talent and desire to contribute to LP's growth.
We plan to publish our second sustainability report tomorrow, so stay tuned for more detail about our sustainability performance and strategy. As we look towards Q4 and next year, inflationary pressures continue to provide headwinds. Alan will provide more detail on this in a moment, but so far, LP's growth continues to more than offset the cost impact of raw material and wage inflation. Mortgage rates of 7% or more will worsen affordability, especially for first-time homebuyers, and this is likely a contributing factor for softening housing starts.
As we head into a potentially weaker housing market, I remain optimistic about two factors. First, I remain bullish about the long-term fundamentals for housing and repair and remodeling. Second, I am more convinced than ever that LP's strategy of growing siding and structural solutions and managing our capital and capacity with discipline is the right approach in any market. With that, I will turn the call over to Alan for a more detailed review of the quarter before we take your questions.
Thanks, Brad. As we've said, the third quarter of 2022 set new records for siding. Despite general economic headwinds and slowing single-family housing starts, LP continues to grow siding and structural solutions, and that growth continues to offset the impacts of raw material and wage inflation.
The waterfall on slide nine provides a summary of revenue and EBITDA compared to the third quarter of last year for siding. Revenue grew year-over-year by $82 million or 27% to $394 million. Prices were 16% higher due to the combined effect of two list price increases in the past three quarters, in addition to the mix uplift from ExpertFinish. These higher prices added $51 million of revenue and EBITDA.
Volumes were 9% higher as a result of the Houlton mill's ongoing ramp-up, as well as continued improvement in overall equipment effectiveness or OEE, which rose two points over last year. Volume growth contributed $31 million of revenue and $12 million of EBITDA. Inflation produced $32 million of direct cost headwinds, of which $23 million was in raw materials and $7 million in freight.
The final $14 million of cost increases largely relates to sustaining maintenance at the mills together with increased prices for MRO materials. In summary, growth and price, which we believe are permanent, more than offset inflation, which we hope is not. The result was a rather healthy $90 million in EBITDA at a 23% margin. Slide 10 shows the waterfall for the OSB business.
The growth story is broadly consistent with that of siding, with increases in structural solutions volume offsetting raw material and wage inflation. This similarity is overshadowed by the drop in commodity OSB prices, which reduced year-over-year revenue and EBITDA by $252 million. The final $20 million EBITDA headwind on the waterfall reflects increased maintenance costs and the impact of somewhat reduced OEE.
The resulting $113 million in EBITDA slightly outperformed our algorithmic guidance, in part due to favorable price realization, without which the impact of falling commodity prices would have been more severe. In both businesses, inflationary pressures were driven primarily by natural gas and benzene, which are key inputs for resins, overlays, paints, and waxes, and by crude oil, which increases the cost of freight, both inbound and outbound.
Page eleven aggregates these impacts to show a high-level summary for LP as a whole. The largest single factor is, of course, commodity OSB prices. The $18 million in revenue and $12 million in EBITDA from increased commodity OSB volume is largely the difference in Peace Valley's output as it has ramped up over the past year.
Siding growth, net of selling and marketing investments, added $60 million in EBITDA, and structural solutions growth added $24 million, from which, for the purposes of this analysis, I will deduct $7 million, representing the lost opportunity to sell commodity volume instead of higher-margin structural solutions. North American inflationary costs, including the inflationary components of the other mill costs listed in the waterfalls, results in a $65 million headwind.
The net positive $12 million of EBITDA, that is $77 million from growth against $65 million of inflation, shows that once again, LP's growth has offset inflation. When raw material and freight prices normalize, then all else equal, the potential for margin enhancement is substantial. South America, referred to on the slide as LPSA, saw similar raw material inflation, and demand appears to be slowing more meaningfully than in North America.
At constant dollar exchange rates, revenue fell year-over-year by $12 million or 16%, and EBITDA fell by $17 million. Slide 12 shows cash flow for the quarter, and it tells a story of very consistent capital allocation. LP generated $200 million in EBITDA from continuing operations, plus another $14 million from EWP in July.
Taxes and some working capital movements, this produced $195 million in cash, in cash flow. The divestiture of the EWP segment produced another $206 million in proceeds. As Brad said, we essentially took this inflow of around $400 million, invested what we needed in the business, and returned the balance to shareholders. Cash at quarter end was almost flat, hovering just under $500 million.
When combined with our undrawn revolver, we ended the quarter with over $1 billion of liquidity. I also want to point out that third quarter share buybacks have lowered LP's share count to 71.7 million, a reduction of 50% from the end of 2018 when repurchase activity began in earnest.
Furthermore, the $1.72 in adjusted diluted earnings per share would have been $0.37 per share or 22% lower had it not been for share repurchases over the past 12 months. While the lower OSB prices we are experiencing right now may have reduced the magnitude of cash flows, with the result that share repurchases will slow proportionately, our capital allocation strategy remains unchanged.
We will continue to earn cash, invest in growth, and return the balance to shareholders, specifically in that order. Slide 13 shows guidance for the fourth quarter and full year. With work accelerating on converting the Sagola OSB mill to siding production, the fourth quarter will be the highest for CapEx this year, bringing us to somewhere between $400-$420 million in total spending for 2022.
Just under $200 million of that spend was for the Houlton and Sagola mill conversions. We'll ultimately spend just under $100 million on other growth projects to expand capacity in ExpertFinish and Structural Solutions, and between $120 and $130 million in sustaining maintenance. As Brad said earlier, we continue to add siding capacity with the planned expansion of Houlton.
Now, adding a new forming line and press at Houlton will be substantially more expensive than converting an existing mill. As such, an early preview of CapEx for 2023 would seem to be in order. The expansion of Houlton is expected to cost in the order of $400 million with a rate of return of about 30%.
Spending on that project will significantly ramp up in the latter part of 2023, with the result that total CapEx next year will likely be closer to $500 million than this year's $410-ish million. There is substantial flexibility in the system to delay these capital outlays should circumstances warrant. However, demand for siding remains strong, and we expect year-over-year sales growth in the fourth quarter of at least 30%.
Taking demand as a given, this growth is enabled by the additional capacity from Houlton's continuing ramp-up, as well as the non-recurrence of a press rebuild in the fourth quarter of last year, which provided an admittedly soft comparison. This will bring full-year siding revenue growth to about 24%.
OSB prices have been essentially flat for the past several weeks, and if we assume that they maintain their current levels, we expect OSB revenue to fall by about 30% sequentially quarter-over-quarter. In addition to price reductions, revenue in the fourth quarter will be impacted by lower output due to Sagola's conversion to siding, the interruption caused by a fire at Clark County in October, and typical year-end maintenance outages.
The result of all this would be a fourth quarter EBITDA for LP as a whole of around $100 million. Within that $100 million, we expect siding EBITDA of at least $85 million for a fourth quarter siding margin of around 23%. With that, I'll turn the call back over to the operator for Q&A.
Thank you. At this time, we will conduct questions and answer session. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from Susan Maklari from Goldman Sachs. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning, everyone. My first question is looking at the siding business. Can you talk a little bit about channel inventories there and what you're seeing just in terms of overall order rates? You know, we've heard from a lot of building product companies this last couple of weeks that things are obviously starting to moderate on the ground. Can you just help us, you know, understand better what you're seeing there and contrasting your growth relative to what's happening in the broader industry?
Susan, we're still on managed order file, and as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, expect to stay on managed order file at least through Q1 of next year. Right now, our demand pulls are still strong. Channel inventories and siding remain on the lean side of where we would like them to be for this time of year. You know, from that standpoint and look, it's hard, you know, when we're oversold or on managed order file, you're not sure how much more you could sell if you had it. Currently, you know, the strength of the order file remains, you know, pretty stable.
You know, there's these additions to capacity, particularly the Houlton, you know, is gonna provide us incremental volume to sell over the next several quarters. The, you know, managed order file situation could change, but as of today, you know, still very healthy order file.
Okay. That's helpful. You know, following up, can we talk a little bit more about inflation and the supply chain and how you're thinking about those costs coming through over the next couple quarters, and the ability to sustain price as the macro and as housing does moderate to hold the margins that you've been seeing, especially in the siding segment?
Yeah, Susan, you know, I feel good. As Alan mentioned in his remarks, you know, our siding pricing historically for the last 20 years or so has been very sticky. You know, once we get it, we've essentially never given it up, especially on the price list. Sometimes and to respond to competitive situations, we can, you know, work around with rebates to specific customers.
But, I mean, I feel good about the pricing that we've gotten this year. We are planning to go out January with another 3%-5% list price increase announcement, and to help offset some of the late this year's later inflation that we're experiencing now. I don't anticipate us using price to generate demand next year. That's typically not how this product goes to market.
I feel like our, you know, our price to cost ratio is gonna stay, you know, kind of where it's at. You know, it's always a matter of timing. You know, inflation can get ahead of our ability to get the price increase through the channel, et cetera. You know, so far, we've been able to keep up with it, and I anticipate being able to do that, you know, in the first part of next year as well.
Okay. Thanks for the color, and good luck with everything.
Thank you.
Thank you for your question, and we're queuing up the next question right now. The next question is from Sean Steuart with TD Securities. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Hi. Good morning, everyone. It's Ashley Casia on the line filling in for Sean Steuart. Sticking with the price theme, just to follow up on the realizations this quarter for siding, I think they were up 5% relative to Q2. I know you implemented price hikes of 2%-3% on July first. Can you comment on what factor mix played this quarter?
Ashley, you broke up right at the last part of the last sentence of your question.
Oh, no problem. Sorry about that, Brad. I'm just wondering if you would comment on to what extent mix played a role this quarter.
Yeah. Mix can play a role, but most of that price increase was attributed to the major price increase. Maybe 1% mix, but the rest was all from raised pricing.
Okay. I know you commented on, you know, buybacks or return activity slowing down a bit just in tandem with the commodity markets slowing down. Can you just remind us how much you have left on your current program? I think it was $600 million authorization. How much is left right now, if anything, and any share buyback activity in Q4 to date?
We have $200 million remaining on the authorization, and there's been no share buybacks to date this quarter.
Okay, wonderful. Thanks for the context. I appreciate it. I'll turn it over.
Thank you very much for your question. Our next question comes from George Staphos with Bank of America Securities. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Thanks very much. Alan, Aaron, Brad, good morning. Congratulations on the progress. I wanted to ask first question on the supply chain and costs. Are you seeing any kind of, if you will, green shoot in recovery and improvement, especially on labor, especially on freight?
Then related, and there are no guarantees in life, we won't hold you to this, but is your expectation that if things go as planned, we don't see a material drop-off in demand in siding, Sagola comes up to curve as you'd expect, you know, that you can maintain your current level of margin or maybe get to the 25% next year? How would you have us think about those two questions?
Yeah, well, on the supply chain, yes, we are seeing freight trucking free up more than we've experienced all year. That has certainly really improved availability of freight and also, you know, somewhat impacted cost. On the labor side, I mean, we're still fighting to maintain staffing in our operations group and to a certain extent in sales. I would say it's certainly not gotten any worse in the second half of the year.
As far as overall cost, you know, because of the way that most of our big supply contracts are indexed to a, you know, a base material, you know, and most of those are in some way associated with oil and benzene directly, we currently haven't seen any green shoots on cost reductions, but obviously we're watching oil closely, and if that, if, you know, if it was to trend downward, there could be some opportunities for some cost relief next year, though, we are currently not seeing that. As far as margin for next year at the 25% rate, you know, with the Sagola ramp up, there will certainly be inefficiencies associated with that.
We have not finalized our back to the cost, our, you know, our raw material input costing for next year as far as our budget process. We have decided to initiate a beginning of the year price increase. I mean, I think we can. Well, depending on the ramp of Sagola and depending on no incremental cost increases around raw material, we make it get back to more around the 25% rate.
There's a lot of unknowns around that number, you know, again, given the uncertainty about the Sagola ramp up and raw material inflation. I will say this. I feel good about what we're doing on the stuff we can control, specifically around pricing. You know, we've been demonstrating good price discipline in siding and, you know, getting it where and when we can. We'll continue to focus on that as far as, you know, protecting our margins.
Thanks, Brad. Two other questions on siding, and I'll turn it over. First of all, can you talk about the ability of the fiber basket around Houlton to take on that second line? Maybe it's a non-event, but if you could just give us a bit of parameters there.
Then when you're done with Houlton, I wanna say in your prepared remarks, you said you're going to have, along with the other pre-finishing investments that you're making, you're gonna have additional offering scale. If you could kind of go back through what the additional capabilities you'll have in siding when you're done with Houlton line two and with the other pre-finishing operations, that would be great. Thank you, guys.
Yeah. Sean, first of all, one of the primary reasons that we're expanding in Houlton is because the availability of the wood, the wood basket. They are very good. You know, over the years, there has been some wood-related manufacturing loss in the Maine area, in the state of Maine. The pulpwood wood basket up there is good.
The Aspen wood basket, which, you know, we prefer, is very good as well. You know, that was one of the drivers to deciding to expand the production in Houlton. As far as you know, just a reminder of the expansions that we're doing in the siding business, so particularly as it relates to pre-finish, we have manufacturing facilities for pre-finish in Green Bay, which we are currently adding coating lines in.
We have a facility in St. Louis, a facility in North Carolina. We're building a large facility in Bath, New York, which will be expandable by adding paint lines. We mentioned a facility that we're just, you know, beginning to do the engineering on is in the state of Washington, where I see opportunity for further growth past Washington as far as capacity is in the central part of the country, west of St. Louis.
I feel like with our facility in North Carolina and then the addition of Bath, New York, we'll have the East Coast fairly well covered. You know, certainly as we continue to grow siding, press capacity additions or expansions will be critical to the growth beyond Houlton line two.
The pre-finish growth is a little easier because once we get a basic infrastructure in place, then we'll be able just to add paint lines at the existing facilities in order to increase capacity. In the big picture, those are relatively low capital items, those additional paint lines, so that capacity can be added pretty efficiently.
Thank you, Brad.
I know you're-
Oh.
Okay.
Thank you for your questions. Just one moment. We are setting up our next question. Our next question comes from Kurt Yinger with D.A. Davidson. Your line is open. Please go ahead.
Great. Thanks, and good morning, everyone. Just wanted to start off on the outlook for OSB to be down 30% sequentially on sales. With some of the noise around Sagola and the Clark County Mill, could you, I guess, help us think about how much of that is price versus volume embedded in that?
Kurt, this is Aaron. The Sagola capacity is about a little over 400 annually. We shut it down now, it's gonna be, call it, 100 per quarter, but less than that because we're mid-quarter. You know, price is likely to be a larger component of that than volume. But there is some volume coming out as a combination of Sagola and typical quarter end maintenance outages that are, you know, common this time of year.
Got it. Okay, thanks for that, Aaron. I guess a two-parter on Houlton. As you think about getting the facility positioned for production in mid to late 2024, how much of the pacing of that work will kind of be dependent on the macro? If you get to the point, and everything's ready to go, but the demand isn't there to justify a startup, how would you think about additional fixed costs, associated with that mill and just expanding the capacity but not necessarily running it?
That's a good question. Obviously where we are today, it would be easy to delay the Houlton line two capacity expansion if we had some outlook that was dire around siding demand, which we currently don't have. You know, as we get closer to beginning construction and all that stuff, it gets harder to push those back, especially when it comes to the other purchases we made early.
Let me back up a little bit from that answer to explain that. You know, because machinery and presses and embossing plates are so tight, you know, we are actively engaged in doing as much procurement as we can early in order to secure those that material and the necessary manufacturing of that equipment.
From a cost standpoint on the equipment, it gets harder and harder. I mean, really beginning right now as we place those orders. Where we could push is around the construction labor as far as getting, you know, erecting it. I will. You know, it'll be something we can talk about, you know, as it goes through next year, quarter to quarter. Obviously, you know, once we get Sagola up and going over the next couple quarters, it'll be all hands on deck, getting Houlton line two up, and, you know, so we're expecting to need that capacity.
Okay, great.
It seemed like a two-part question. I forgot the second part.
No, that's all right. I mean, I guess the last one is just you talked about the fiber basket, but outside of that, were there any other kind of big factors that caused you to go with the Houlton expansion versus some of the other kind of capacity alternatives that you talked about?
The biggest thing was timing. You know, we felt like or know that our ability to get that mill up and running with a second line, given the infrastructure that is in place there, was certainly quicker than any of the OSB conversions we could have done and, you know, order of magnitude faster than doing a greenfield.
That was really the driving factor. I'll add two others. First is the quality of the workforce at our Houlton facility is very high. Evidence of that is how well Houlton line one conversion is going. We really have a lot of confidence about our ability to execute both on the construction and the ramp-up phase of that project.
Then thirdly, being in the Northeast, again, gives us a little more geographic diversity versus the central part of the country where you know we're really concentrated as far as manufacturing. It also complements, you know, our repair and remodel push, which Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, on down to East Coast is, it's a really good repair and remodel market.
With us adding the prefinished capacity in Bath, New York, and obviously that would be very efficient, transportation between Houlton and Bath. All those, you know, that and a few more criteria really, I mean, in the context of our alternatives, made Houlton line two kind of a no-brainer for us.
Okay, great. Well, thanks for that, Brad, and good luck here in Q4, guys.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for your question, and we're currently queuing up another person here. Our next person is Mark Weintraub with Seaport Research Partners. Your phone line is now open. Go ahead.
Thank you. Two lines of inquiry. First, on the Houlton expansion, if I heard right, $400 million in CapEx. I think, Alan, you mentioned a 30% type return and also suggested that it was about 300 million sq ft of incremental capacity. I guess the question was, if I take the $400 million and kind of simplistically say, well, 30% return.
Am I gonna have $120 million+ of EBITDA increment? And then if I look at the, you know, average pricing you have in your siding right now, that would be really high margins, like 50% type margins. Now, of course, it could be this is a sweeter mix and so has higher average prices or is it really low cost. I mean, can you just help us out in kind of understanding how the economics work as you see it, for the Houlton expansion? Thank you.
You kind of got it right, Mark. You're right about the very high margin. An independent siding mill, given the progress we've made on pricing and mix and so on, fundamentally, high level delivers about a 50% EBITDA margin in isolation as a mill. Now, the business doesn't deliver 50% EBITDA margin right now, because we obviously have a set of fixed costs and selling costs and marketing costs and so on that aren't necessarily included in that analysis. Yes, the mill economics you described are right, and there's significant operating leverage we get from adding another mill into an already effective network.
Okay, great. Thank you. On the fourth quarter guidance, well, maybe what might be is can you give us where your OSB prices average quarter to date and currently are relative to the third quarter?
Well, Mark, this is Aaron. The prices in the guide, using the algorithmic approach that we've consistently stuck with the past several quarters and random lengths print from last Friday, I think the North Central was about $350 on 7/16 basis last Friday. So the guide assumes that for modeling purposes that remains stable at that level.
Is that roughly a $50 or $60 decline from what you would have averaged in the third quarter?
Yeah, that is about right. Yeah.
Again, pretty close, Mark. Your math is good.
Okay. If I'm down 30% in revenue, just want to make sure. Basically, am I expecting like a 10% or so decline from volumes or something else? Because I'm down.
Yeah, I think it was Kurt's question earlier about volume.
Yeah.
I'll just remind you that Sagola comes out this week. Then we may finally, for the first time in about three years, have a little bit of breathing room at the end of the year to take some maintenance related downtime around the holidays. The combination of those effects would account for roughly the level of volume that you assumed.
Got it.
in terms of support volume. Both of which factors are incorporated loosely in our algorithmic guide.
Got it. Okay. Thank you.
Thanks, Mark.
Thank you for your question, Mark, and we're setting up for the next person. Our next person is Michael Roxland from Truist Securities. Your line is now open. Go ahead.
Thanks very much for taking the questions. Yep, sorry about that. Just a quick question on the broader housing market. Are there any pockets of strength? We know the housing market obviously is rolling over. Builders are, you know, the cancellation rates are higher. Are there any markets you've noted, Brad, that your siding has held up relatively well. Are there any markets that are particularly showing strength relative to the decline that we're seeing more broadly in the national market?
Yes, sir. Within the market for single-family new construction, generally speaking, South is stronger than North. That we're seeing that in our pools in both OSB and siding. Some of that may be weather related as we get into the fall season, and we'll see as it plays through, you know, November, December, how the South is impacted, but relatively speaking, stronger in the South than in the North.
Gotcha. Okay. Just on the BuilderSeries, which tends to be one of the fastest growing components of siding, just, you know, given the stress that many builders are facing, you know, how has that product particularly fared? Demand still strong, or have you seen some trading given the just the slowdown in housing?
You know, demand is still really strong for that. You know, obviously, got to be careful about percentage growth when, you know, last year was zero, so it makes it for a very high percentage growth. We're very pleased with that launch. I do believe, you know, given some of the cost pressure and labor availability issues, the product was engineered to address both of those. It's put us in a position, particularly with the larger builders, to have a value proposition that's pretty attractive.
You know, we have been very well pleased with the conversations that have led to orders and then the outlook for that product given, I mean, honestly, given this environment. I mean, obviously that will be, you know, if housing is way down next year, that'll provide a headwind to that product. I will say from a market share standpoint, I feel like we've got an opportunity to increase significantly our market share with large national and regional builders.
Got it. Just one final question. Just on order files, I think last quarter you mentioned siding on allocation, and I think you reiterated that earlier. But yeah, line of sight in terms of order files of four, six weeks in siding, OSB, you're not seeing any order weakness, but you had line of sight to two to four weeks out. Any change in terms of your order books on your order files in both siding and OSB?
Not really. Certainly not in OSB. I would call the market pretty balanced right now. You know, obviously, that's showing up in the pricing reported in random lengths. In siding, it's a similar thing where, you know, we're allocating orders, so we're six to six plus weeks out on the order file, and that. We're pretty much in the same place that we were last quarter, as far as the outlook for siding and the strength of the order file.
Great. Thank you very much.
You know, it is. Obviously, it is. Yeah, I'm just gonna close. I mean, it is. It can be. You know, that's not as simple an answer as OSB because the managed order file situation kind of controls the length of the order file. You know, we're controlling that now, so it shouldn't be surprising that you know, kind of six weeks is where we've been since that's how we're managing the order file, for whatever that's worth.
No, makes sense. No, I appreciate all the color, Brad. Good luck on the balance of the year.
Thank you.
Thank you for your question, Mike. Just as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone, and you will be placed into our queue. Our next question is from John Tumazos of John Tumazos Very Independent Research, LLC. Please go ahead, John.
Thank you for taking my question. A few months ago, I had the pleasure of putting SmartSide on my house, which I'm very pleased with. It cost me installed $11,000 per 1,000 sq ft versus your sales realization in the 800s. I bought pre-finished, so maybe it cost a few hundred dollars more than that. The crew of six people worked about 22 hours, and they worked hard.
They were good. It struck me that there's other applications, like, the people that use lasers to measure before they install granite countertops or the TV ad for the floor mats in your car that are laser measured, or the bathtub fixtures, things like that there's a lot of potential to improve the precision of installation of SmartSide through the implementation of technology.
If you improve the productivity of the installers by 10%, it might enable you to charge $1,000 more for SmartSide, since what matters to the customer is the installed cost. Could you just talk a little bit about your efforts to train installers and improve productivity in that phase of the value added, which would enable you to charge more for the product?
John, well, first of all, thank you for putting SmartSide on your house. I'm pleased to hear it went well. That is certainly a testament to the product and to your installer, kind of in the direction that your question is focused. Yeah, we do actively work with a set of contractors. We have various loyalty programs where we provide both online and in-person training in-depth on about how to install our product, because as John has mentioned, we want that experience to be really well for the homeowner, for them to see, you know, the siding put up efficiently and it being beautiful and functional once it's installed.
You know, the marketing spend that we have is for most purposes directed at making sure that our contractor base is enabled to understand the product and install it efficiently. There is a lot of opportunity for product enhancement around this R&R siding market related to labor efficiency.
I mean, if you think about it, the whole concept of pre-finish is one of those where you're eliminating the secondary step of painting when it's on the wall. The opportunity for us to do things as far as accessories related to improving that efficiency, like the three-dimensional corners that we've launched over the last couple years that save a big labor step.
You know, those kind of products really can provide the contractor with an efficiency that allows him to better utilize his labor, lower the cost of an install, and then ultimately, our objective is to increase the profitability of both us and the contractor as part of that sales process. You're dead on.
I mean, your observation of watching that siding being installed and the ideas around continued improvement and product innovation and service innovation that improves the efficiency of that is certainly one of the most attractive features of the repair and remodel segment that we're playing in now. We wanna get really good at turning those value propositions into, you know, into profit for our sales and the contractor base that supports our product.
If I could continue, do you think it's fair for your mill realization to be on the order of one-tenth of the installed cost to the customer? Do you think that the demand for your product is so high that the distributors are getting an, or installers, an inordinate markup?
No, I don't believe. I think, you know, fair is a complex word, you know, in business transactions. I do believe. Look, we have really good distributor partners that over the years we have actively, you know, upgraded to a specialty, to more of a specialty-focused network. We are proud that our business model is centered around providing opportunities for profitability throughout the channel and with our contractor base. Ultimately, to have that product delivered efficiently enough so that you decided to install it on your home, given the price that you were quoted.
Right now, you know, we don't feel compelled in any way to try to take, you know, margin out of the channel as a means to improving our profitability. You know, we want to improve our profitability by working on the cost that we can control directly and by managing pricing.
Thank you. Let me add, the Hurricane Ian passed 10 miles south of me two months after the job was done, and everything held up great.
Thank you so much for your questions, John.
Great to hear that. Glad you're safe.
Thank you so much.
Take a picture.
We're setting up for our next question here. Our next question is from Paul Quinn with RBC Capital Markets. Go ahead, Paul. You're live.
Okay, thanks. Good morning, guys. Just a question on Houlton, when you get line two up. If the demand is not there for siding, you can still run OSB, right?
Yeah. Paul, that you know, we've run OSB on line one at Houlton historically. We also have the ability to run OSB at various other mills in our system. If there was a need to do that as far as not being able to ramp up into all that volume immediately, and the OSB market could handle it, you know, historically, we've run OSB in our system pretty efficiently. No, I mean like that. The last time we've done that is probably three years ago. Certainly haven't run any since COVID, but we do maintain the ability to do that.
There was a previous question about, you know, fixed cost coverage, and that's why we do that, is to be able to, you know, maintain, you know, machine productivity, as we grow our siding demand to meet the ultimate capacity that we have in place.
Great. Yeah, I thought you had that flexibility. On the ExpertFinish, you mentioned, Brad, you know, you'll double it by the end of 2024 and then double it again by the end of 2025. What are those two things in terms of the percentage of siding capacity that you'll be able to do on ExpertFinish? Like, doubling by the end of 2024, does that get you to 10%? And then again, does it get you to 20% of your capacity?
Yeah, that would give us about 15% capacity by that period over that period of time.
Okay. Just lastly, any update on Integra?
Yes. The Integra update I'll give is that we continue to look to optimize the facility in Modesto. Paul, given where we are right now with our capacity expansions in siding and our structural solutions, we are no longer viewing that platform as a big opportunity for growth. Some of that also related to the near-term outlook for housing.
We're gonna continue to work on improving the profitability of the Integra facility, but I feel like our capital allocation is better spent now given the returns Alan has talked about we're able to demonstrate by further investment into siding and our OSB structural solution and our OSB OEE program. You know, we still have work to do to optimize Modesto, but we're not seeing that Integra business model is providing the necessary returns for us to be very excited about in the long term.
Okay, fair enough. That's all I had. Thanks, guys. Best of luck.
Thank you very much, Paul, for your question. I will now turn it back over to Aaron Howald for closing comments.
Okay. Thank you, operator. Thank you everyone for joining us to discuss LP's results for the third quarter of 2022. We'll close there. Stay safe, and we'll look forward to speaking with you all again soon.
Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.