Good afternoon. My name is Nora, and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I'd like to welcome everyone to the Las Vegas Sands Third Quarter 2020 Earnings Conference Call. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Daniel Briggs.
Please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. Joining me on the call
today are Sheldon Adelson, our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Rob Goldstein, our President and Chief Operating Officer and Patrick Dumont, our Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Also joining us on the call are Doctor. Wilfred Wong, President of Sands China and Grant Shum, Chief Operating Officer of Sands China. Before I turn the call over to Mr. Adelson, please let me remind you that today's conference call will contain forward looking statements that we are making under the Safe Harbor provision of federal securities laws.
The company's actual results could differ materially from the anticipated results in these forward looking statements. In addition, we may discuss non GAAP measures. The definition and reconciliation of each of these measures to the most comparable GAAP financial measures is included in the press release. Please note that we have posted supplementary earnings slides on our Investor Relations website. We may refer to those slides during the Q and A portion of the call.
Finally, for those who would like to participate in the Q and A session, we ask that you please respect our request to limit yourself to 1 question and one follow-up question, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. Please note that this presentation is being recorded. With let me please turn the call over to Mr. Adelson.
Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I hope that all of you and your families are staying safe and healthy. While the business volumes continue to be Singapore, Marina In Singapore, Marina Bay Sands had a profitable quarter as operations progressively resumed requested result during the summer. In Macao, operating losses reduced sequentially over the Q2. The Q3 results, however, are not representative of our current business trajectory.
As the resumption of Visa Insurance across all provinces in China only commenced toward the end of September. The initial stages of recovery since then have been very encouraging. Through the October Golden Week, we saw meaningful recovery across the different segments of our Macao operations. Importantly, business volumes in the premium mass segment enjoyed the most significant researches. This vital segment is central to our ongoing investment program in Macau and has been leading our revenue generation at this stage of the recovery.
We expect the base mass market to recover as visitation to the market increases. Consistent with the recovery in premium mass and overall domestic China consumption trends. We also experienced strong recovery in our retail malls with the luxury retail segment enjoying the strongest performance. We continue to make excellent progress in our US2.2 billion dollars capital investment for the London and Macau and Four Seasons projects. The Grand Suites at Four Seasons, the largest all suite Four Seasons hotel in the world, is non complete, licensed and hosting customers in the premium mass segment.
These gorgeous news suites have been receiving great customer feedback since the Golden Week. We will be introducing a variety of additional world class integrated resort products and amenities as we complete the London and Macau and other capital projects. The Londoner will include 2 new all suite hotels, more than a dozen new restaurants, additional retail and new nice and entertainment facilities. Our unwavering commitment to our significant ongoing investments in Macau enables us to play our part in supporting local employment and the local economy. It also ensures Macau will be even better positioned to recapture and over time increase its share of leisure and business tourism from China and the rest of Asia.
I remain steadfast in my belief that Macao has the potential to become one of the greatest business and leisure tourism destinations in the world and the MICE Capital.
As I
have said on many occasions, we would welcome the opportunity to invest billions of additional investment dollars and extend our contributions to Macau's diversification and evolution into Asia's leading leisure and business tourism destination. Now turning to Marina Bay Sands in Singapore. We encourage that MBS was profitable in the Q3 despite the absence of overseas tourists. We hope to see the initiation of reciprocal travel arrangements in the coming months as health concerns permit. We remain committed to pursuing long term investments in Singapore and our expansion of Marina Bay Sands, although there would be likely delays in the timing of the expansion given the challenges created by the pandemic.
In addition to the expansion, we will continue to reinvest in Marina Bay Sands to enhance the customer experience and the tourism appeal of the resort. In Las Vegas, we are pleased to report that the recovery is well underway. Weekend occupancies have been as high as 70%. Together with our state and local government leadership and the entire Las Vegas community, our team members are working diligently to prepare to safely host convention and group meeting customers from throughout the world, throughout the country and around the world. We look forward to once again welcoming these customers back to Las Vegas, which will always be the most important convention and group meeting market in the United States.
As we have said in the past, increased airlift and the resumption of the convention of group meeting business are both critical components to achieving a full recovery in Las Vegas. Now moving to our balance sheet. Maintaining a strong balance sheet makes great business sense while we weather the storm caused by this pandemic. Our balance sheet strength enables us to continue to execute our capital investment programs in both Macau and Singapore, which we believe will position the company to deliver industry leading growth and profitability in the years ahead. We're as confident as ever in the strength of our business model and the eventual recovery in travel and tourism spending in our markets.
So thanks again for joining us on the call today. Now we'll take questions.
Your first question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JPMorgan. Your line is open.
Good morning, everybody. Sheldon, your comments about recent trends in Macau on the premium mass and luxury retail side, certainly encouraging. I was hoping maybe you can give us a little bit more detail on what you've seen since Golden Week. And would you say at this point, if you're run rating at these levels and these levels continue that you would be at EBITDA breakeven levels in the cap?
That's what we're shooting for.
But not currently there as of yet?
The trajectory is heading in the right direction.
Joe, it's Rob. How are you doing?
Hey, Rob.
How are you? Let's just begin with the obvious and our confidence in Macao being the world's greatest gaming market and its principal source of customers come from China. We know we're dropping in China from a growing economy perspective, a fatal position visavisacovid the M and D is as strong as many years. And of course, the Chinese consumers not traveling to foreign countries. We think this back pattern, the macro perspective is very favorable for Macau.
As you know, Macau has been a $40,000,000,000 to $50,000,000 revenue market for the past number of years, year in year performance. The COVID IBS obstacles are real and we believe as they start to lessen, we'll go back to March into our goal of 4 $1,000,000,000 annually. Our new 4 Seasons is now open. It's quite a product. The London will be complete from the interior perspective by December.
So we've never been stronger from an asset perspective. But there's no question while demand from Macao is there, it is there. We have big confidence. The Visa and the testing issues have proven to be challenging and have limited the access. We are hoping the government will loosen restrictions and access to Macau will continue to improve.
The truth is the way Macau and China has handled the virus in a very capable manner. And Macao will be the beneficiary of reduced travel other markets. The Chinese consumers not traveling outside China, So it's a domestic travel bubble. We hope you include it shortly. I'd like Grant to opine and talk about I asked Grant to join the call over as long to give you color from the ground since he hasn't been there in many, many months.
And then David, give you Grant maybe could begin by talking about your questions about October, profitability, trends, etcetera. So Grant, are you awake there Grant and look out?
We're well awake. Yes. Thank you, Rob. Yes, good morning, good afternoon, everyone. Yes, I mean, October was the first time since January that we've seen significant real business volumes and patronage.
And as Mr. A mentioned in his opening remarks, premium mass has been the strongest segment by far, and that is really across the all of the different tiers of premium mass. The patrons returning first to Macau are the high quality, high frequency customers. I think that reflects the pent up demand that these guests have, and these are the ones who are used to staying overnight in Macau. They are used to having multiple night stays in Macau, enjoying the destination, And these are the 1st customers to come back, and that's natural.
In terms of the question about where we are on the volumes and profitability, I mean principally based on the premium mass recovery, October month to date, our non rolling drop per day is just over 20,000,000. That's about 30% of last year's level. And at this level of non rolling drop, we are able to achieve and we are achieving a slight positive EBITDA month to date based on current cost structure and the business mix. I think what's particularly encouraging, to Joe's question about what's happening after Golden Week, we had the expected lull in the 2nd week of October, but then we saw a very notable rebound in the 3rd week. In fact, in the 3rd week, we are actually still averaging around or just under $20,000,000 drop per day as well.
So we are, as Mr. Day said, we are well onto that trajectory, and we hope we can maintain that. I think in tandem with the premium mass recovery, we've seen a resurgence in the retail mall sales, and that's especially true in the Four Seasons in the luxury retail segment. The retail recovery actually began in September and has continued into October. In fact, some of our number of our top first line brands within the Four Seasons more is actually up year on year in terms of the retail tenant sales in the 1st 2 weeks of October.
And obviously, in conjunction with that, at the Four Seasons, we've just opened the Grand Suites for Four Seasons and these suites have received exceptional. I think this is exactly the right product for this premium mass segment structurally, but also at this point in time, I think these Chinese consumers are looking for higher quality, looking for the premium experiences, and also obviously in this time, an increased amount personal space. So we're very happy of how that product has come through and in fact is really one of our best performing hotels, if not the best performing hotels in October. The question on the other segments, I think base mass certainly is relatively low in terms of traffic right now. As you know, the overall visitation in Macau remains relatively low.
And as Rob referenced, there are obviously impediments. Some are real, some are perceived, some are more to do with awareness in terms of the policies. But obviously, there are logistical challenges relating to the testing, the COVID testing as well as the visa application. But as the awareness builds, as the word-of-mouth spreads, as some of these visa application processes are shortened and become more abbreviated, some of these logistical challenges will be As for the VIP segment, obviously, that's been slower in terms of the recovery. That's expected.
A lot of those issues are well documented, but we are also seeing a reasonable amount of play coming through in that segment in October as well. So I hope that gives you some color on the October.
That's great, Grant. I hope you're on the next bunch of earnings conference calls. Just a quick follow-up. How much of your volumes do you think are coming from outside of Guangdong since Golden Week? Or is it primarily this month all Guangdong?
Actually, the vast majority of the volumes and the room bookings are from non Guangdong, but that ratio is actually consistent with what we saw in the past. So this is not out of the ordinary. Majority of the volume comes from outside of Guangdong, and that was the case in October already. But your question is still well made in the sense that in the 1st week of October, I mean, a lot of these customers from outside of Guangdong either didn't have time to get the visa or they didn't want to leave their planning to such a last minute time frame. So they already made alternative plans.
So the nationwide visa resumption only occurred or started in 23 September. So that really was not sufficient time or window for a lot of the customers to feel that they could confidently get the visa before Golden Week before the offices shut down again for the holidays. So in that sense, we should hopefully be seeing the non Guangdong visitation improve as the awareness and the logistics challenges are met and some of these people have time to get the visa to come to Macau.
Your next question comes from Felicia Hendrix with Barclays. Your line is open.
Hi, thanks so much. And, Fran, if we could keep you on the hot seat here, I think we're all excited to hear from you. So just getting back to some of the items that you just mentioned, on the visitation side, are you seeing any changes per se in the rate of visa application approvals or even the methodology? I mean, have the kiosks been coming back? Or is it still an in person kind of more manual process?
And on the testing, is there any sense that this will be extended to 14 days? I know that there's been some talk about that.
Sure. I think when the Guangdong visas resumed, I think most of the offices were As the rest of the country has reopened for these application, we see a variety. It's not uniform because it's different provinces have different procedures and they always have had. So there are some significant provinces and cities where you can get a same day application. But most of the others, I would say, range from the manual process takes anywhere between 3 working days to 7 working days.
But there are a number of them that have a shorter application period. And then I think for going forward, hopefully, obviously, this gets smoothed out. And I think this is just part of the initial, I think quite rightly, the authorities are cautious and I think that's the right thing to do in the face of the pandemic that we don't necessarily want a huge surge of people into Macau in a short space of time at the beginning.
And then just on the tax rate, do you think they'll extend that to 14 days versus 7? I know that's a bit of a gating factor?
That has been discussed in Macau and we are waiting for further development on that front.
Okay. And then just as
my follow-up, and this could be for anybody, but on the VIP side, I'm just wondering what you guys are seeing in terms of junket liquidity. I know it's not a big part of your business, but junket liquidity is important to the market as a whole. So, I just wanted to know what your thoughts were there?
Dan, you want to take that or
Sure, sure. I think some of the challenges in that segment are well documented. The segment has been slower to recover in this initial stage of the recovery. But at the same time, as you quite rightly referenced, it's not a significant part of our business, only 4% of our contribution in 2019. And in the meantime, we have obviously very strong performance in the premium and of premium mass, both across gaming and retail?
I was just wondering if you thought that maybe some of your premium mass might be benefiting from folks moving segments as it was before COVID, but maybe seeing that more accelerated now?
I think it's too short a time period to ascertain that.
Okay. Sorry, Rob.
I think one thing I'd point out was Brandt saying was I think the nice thing it may be important to our overall business, but in terms of percentages, but clearly it is important to liquidity in the marketplace. And I think what's nice to see is that the first segment out of box to recover has been pretty massive speculation that it may be hurt badly by liquidity issues. And what we're seeing in retail, I think, Grant mentioned the strength of the retail premium. I was talking to our retail team this morning. It's hard to imagine that in this environment, our top 6 luxury retailers, I won't name the names that you can imagine, the French, the Italian luxury brands are up year on year in total sales, which is kind of astounding.
It shows the strength and liquidity of that premium segment and reflects both the gaming and the retail appetite. I think it's very exciting to realize that segment is back and that speaks to our 4 seasons in our London that moves. But also when the day comes when they do lessen the restrictions and make it more accessible base mass, you've got the 2 most important segments delivering. I think it's nice to see the current situation being mass and perhaps the base masses not too far down the road.
Great. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from the line of Stephen Grambling with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Good afternoon. Thanks for taking the question. It seems like there's been just more news and perhaps noise around overseas gambling legislation in China and some of the restrictions potentially there. What is your interpretation of some of these laws or legislation and the implications for both Macau and Marina Bay Sands and how that might change how you position or market LVS properties?
I'll just take the first point as it relates to rebate sands and ask Doctor. Wong to speak to Macau. But the concerns there don't concern us as we stand for, we do our job as best we can and we carefully monitor as best we can all the restrictions
and all
the issues, money moves, etcetera, to our best of our ability, we take that responsibly very seriously and all applicable rules. Singapore continues to obviously be outsized, like all of Asia, were negatively impacted by the inability of the Chinese customer to get to Singapore. However, we do see the opening, the initiatives taken by the Singapore government to open Hong Kong, but hoping that would be a catalyst for other jurisdictions, other countries, other airlines to open the doors to more travel into Singapore. Doctor. Wang, do you state the issue of cross border casino from your perspective as it relates to the cap?
Sure. We understand the National People's Congress still debating the final form of that legislation. But we must remember that the target the main target is really gambling in foreign countries, including particularly Internet and telephone betting. However, Macau has never been considered foreign in China. And all of concessionaires in Macau respect the law in China, and we never promote gaming in China, only our hospitality and mice facilities and services.
So we believe that Macau is has a unique place under the 1 country, 2 systems in China and that we will continue to operate under confines of the legislation.
Your next question comes from the line of Carlo Santarelli of Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.
Hey, guys. Thank you. I just wanted to follow-up on, I believe it was Felicia's question, and talk a little bit about the VIP segment. When you guys and maybe Grant, you're probably best positioned to answer this, but when you think about kind of the issues on the VIP side and as you mentioned, kind of they've been well advertised, How much of it do you think it is a supply issue in terms of liquidity and supply of capital versus a demand issue? And I guess part of that gets to some of the demand actually just showing up in your premium mask, which you kind of already addressed.
So anything just on the supply and demand dynamics within the VIP segment?
Rob, do you want me to take that?
I want to finish a comment after you to be launching this year, Grant, please.
Sure. Yes, I don't particularly see as a demand issue. I think there are some issues related specifically relating to that segment. And but I think one contextual point is you have to remember that the system is consists of a working capital cycle in that segment. And what we've had in 2020 is a 7, 8 month complete disruption of that business and that ecosystem with all the working capital issues associated with that.
So, we've never had that level of essentially the business stopped everywhere, but obviously for that segment, given the particular dynamics, is particularly damaging. So I think you're seeing some of the after effect of that disruption. But obviously, as gaming activity resumes and demand resumes, you hope that some of these issues will evolve in a positive way.
Yes, I've got to say this and I'm saying the obvious, but I'm going to say anyway. The aging customer, at least our industry is the highest defense in the world. It's been that way for decades and it will be that way for decades to come. I don't think demand the appetite of the consumer is diminished whatsoever. Obviously, the capital cycles in jeopardy right now will take time to adapt.
But we've had this issue in the past years back in 'fourteen and we know 2 things are intact, demand remains intact and that's a fact. And at some point, capital will become available again. I wouldn't count that segment out. It may be in a very, very tough spot right now. But again, demand will be there and eventually we'll see that the supply on the capital side.
We feel highly confident that's the fact.
Great. Thank you guys both. And if I could just ask one quick follow-up as it pertains to what you're kind of seeing, obviously, in a reduced demand environment across the board to an extent, but obviously healthier in the premium mass segment. Are you guys seeing anything unique from competitors in the market just in terms of the way they're going about their business and trying to drive demand at their assets? Or is it pretty much business as usual across the board?
Yes,
I'm sorry.
Yes, actually, it's a business as usual. We don't see anything out of the ordinary. Yes, this is not really a business where people are going to go out and do silly things. I think it's pretty rational right now.
I would add one thing though that we all agree and that is that this market is not being irrational in the past, but it has proven to be very, very successful to great product. And I do think our new Four Seasons product, our Londoner product will prove to be very, very advantageous in the as we move back towards our quest for $4,000,000 annual EBITDA, those products are going to take front and center. And that's what drives us premium mass customer, not silly incentives and poor marketing. Great product wins the day over there. We feel highly confident we have built an aesthetic product that will be very appealing to this customer.
Your next question comes from the line of Steve Wieczynski of Stifel. Your line is open.
Yes. Good afternoon, guys. So Rob, can I ask you a Vegas question? And can you maybe help us think about forward bookings for grouping convention traffic in Vegas next year and maybe how those bookings at this point are shaking out by quarter?
Sure, sure. We still see some bright spots in Vegas market B2B connection in group business. There's demand and there's some recent despair in the market because some of these are just still on a common Q1. We have a couple of major impediments that I'm going to correct them. One is, as you know, the government here, the governor has imposed group restrictions and size restrictions.
So it's very difficult to overcome that. We're hoping to revisit those restrictions and enable the market to talk to some of these large shows. The second issue, of course, is airlift. Airlift, this is not near pre COVID levels. So that's a challenge.
But I think to the positive side, we're getting calls and from the group market, we're getting inquiries from people from all different parts of group market saying we want to come back. We're looking at this month, that month, scattered throughout the year. I think it depends on I guess there's 3 things. The governor's the reason is the restrictions and that's pivotal. The airlift got to be most of these people require airlift, it's not driving business.
So that's I think that will come back when the market demand is there. And the third thing I think to really fully populate the market with group demand again is a change in a catalyst to change how the consumer views being in a place with 30,000, 40,000, 50,000 people. It's obvious in Vegas that the weekend leisure market is surging and we could probably get to 95% right now if we don't have it. We keep the cap hours in the 65%, 70% range to keep the elevator safe, etcetera. But the leisure demand for Las Vegas weekend is very strong, not as much midweek, which has always been relying upon more fruit.
Also the gaming, as you know, has come back to probably out of the 75%, 80% of pre COVID. So there's some bright spots. But to your point, that's going to be the pivotal, the belt you're bringing in in Las Vegas and phase away, we've got to see group come back. And there's just some impediments despite the demand that season growing. We get more calls every day for the group market and people are itching to come back and be here.
So I think those are very large dimensions as well as small tech groups that appears to be across the board demand is reoccurring for next year for 'twenty one. And it's probably so much for the April, May, June and goes throughout the balance of the year.
Okay, great. Thanks, Rob. And second question, I'm not really sure how to ask this question. It's going to be a political question, so excuse me. But yes, I know.
If you take your personal views out of the equation for a second, how should we think about the election coming up? And maybe how each scenario might play out in terms of your China relationships moving forward? And I hope that makes sense.
I'm really not going to answer that question with respect. I think it's first of all, I don't know if there's a good answer. I think we can give you since we all have insight to the attorney's perspective. But I'm going to pass on that respectfully. I don't know if Sheldon wants to weigh in, but I think that's the question I'll pass on.
Okay. Understood. Thanks, guys.
We don't answer political questions.
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS. Your line is open.
Great. Thanks. I have a question for Grant. I'm kind of circling back to some of the discussion earlier. And Grant, it's so nice to hear your voice.
Just your take on whether ability to operate in Mainland China, their interactions with customers, would that be to maybe be providing capital for players from the Mainland. And kind of looking at your economic crystal ball, how long you think capital controls in Mainland China may be kind of front and center? Thanks.
Rob, should I take that?
Yes, please.
Yes. Hi, Robin. Yes. I think we should clarify that there's always been a prohibition on gambling on Mainland China and solicitation of gambling in Mainland China. And I think those rules and regulations are well understood by market participants.
And I think that's the way it should remain. I think the currency issue, I mean, these are big, big issues. We're not in a position to opine on that. But obviously, the market has been operating without any issues for so many years, and we don't see any particular issues in that regard as the market starts to come back. But obviously, like everyone else, we'll watch with great interest the evolution of the system.
Okay.
Maybe just as a follow-up, and I don't know, Rob, if this would be for you because it's sort of broader. I think in prior calls this year, you talked about potential M and A activity or that would be a little bit of a departure for LVF having expressed in that. Can you sort of update us on your thoughts on that at this point? Thanks.
Thank you, Michael.
Yes. You want me to take that one? Is that okay? Sure. Hey, it's Patrick.
I think what we said before in prior calls is consistent that we view capital deployment pretty consistently and so that we have a very high return threshold. When that original commentary was made by the Chairman, it was really regarding certain conditions that existed really before all the stimulus went into the market. And I think where we are today is we're very focused on maintaining our investments in our existing markets. We've deployed a lot of capital in the last 12 months into these markets. As Grant and Rob mentioned, you're starting to see the benefits in the return on premium mass in Macau today in these very high value investments.
And we're also looking to maintain liquidity to ensure that we have the ability to take advantage of opportunities in the future. So I think we're looking around. I think we're optimistic about the future of our key markets. If an M and A opportunity comes up, we'll look at it. But again, our return thresholds are very high.
And as of right now, there's nothing that's really compelling. So we'll continue to deploy capital in our markets and hopefully get a continued high returns that we've been seeing previously in these markets, but no M and A as of right now.
Okay. Thank you.
Thanks, Robin.
Your next question comes from Thomas Allen with Morgan Stanley. Your line is open.
Thank Just following up on
that last question. We've been getting a lot of questions about when you may resume your dividend. And would you go back to the kind of $0.79 you were paying at the beginning of the year? Can you just update us on your thinking there? Thank you.
Hey, it's Patrick. I think return of capital has been a cornerstone for our shareholder value creation program. And I think we're very focused on getting back to being a dividend player. You've heard our Chairman say, yay dividends many times. I think he still feels that way.
I think the company is very motivated to grow its cash flow beyond where it was in 2019 and ultimately return to being a dividend payer. But I think the key thing right now is that we're in the early stages of recovery of COVID and we're going to see how that trajectory goes before we make a determination about return of capital. We're very focused on growing the business back and exceeding the prior levels and we'll evaluate where things are at that time as things progress and make an assessment about sort of dividend payouts at that time.
Helpful color. Thank you, Patrick. And then just as my follow-up question, appreciate all the color you gave on Macau around Golden Week and how things have been progressing there. Can you give any more color around Vegas and Singapore? Obviously, sequentially, Q3 looks better than the Q2.
But was it similar in terms of a month by month progression? And have things continued to improve in October? And would you expect them to continue to improve? Or are there seasonal factors we should be
thinking about too? Thank you.
You want Singapore and Las Vegas. So in Las Vegas, I think things of I'm not sure the seasonal issue would have been in place right now. I think it's not about summer versus fall. I think it's pretty much staying stable. I'm curious to see what happens in the winter if the leisure business holds up as strongly.
But I think things are going to stay where they're at until there's some type of a catalyst. And you're going to see leisure travel, I think, be strong in weekends, not as strong in week. I still think the airlift thing is very, very difficult to overcome. We still are operating as a regional market. I don't see how the group business, I think there will be increasing demand, but how it get here and can it get you with the governmental restrictions.
So I don't see a lot of change in the loss, I guess for us until there's a change structurally in the governor's position, the airline position and the willingness again consumers. I think people coming in weekends and thinking of room is one thing, when they come with a 30,000 week convention, they come and watch a 20,000 seat hockey game. I don't know how people think about those kind of bars gathering. So I think it's a very good stage where it's at. I think there's going to be demand, but we've got to change some things structurally to get people in the buildings.
So that's Vegas. We're very encouraged what's happening in MBS. We made some modest quarters you see. I think that will continue to grow. The growth in MBS will be contingent upon few variables.
For example, this entire building will grow from 1500 current slot machines to 2,000 as of the 1st of the year. The win for you there is extraordinary. So and that's driven mostly not by people think it's a locals market, not really, it's a locals market for residents, Singapore residents, very different thing. And what you meant when you say that is, it's farmers who achieved status as a permanent resident. That's probably the big driver of our very strong slot CTG win.
Not as strong in the table side where the market is not as stable inside the local residents. We need some airlift there. The other encouraging thing happening in Singapore, as you know, is the recent development with the Hong Kong airlift situation in the governance. We're very fortunate that the government in Singapore is so proactive in recognizing the need to rejuvenate our industry and its economy. That deal with CAFE and Sing Air, I think it's very favorable.
It goes well for other jurisdictions to open up. So we need the big catalyst for Singapore growth obviously is foreign travel, foreign visitation, that's necessitated by airlift and that's lacking. But again, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan, etcetera, Vietnam, as those markets open up, Singapore could easily grow from right now 25000000, 35000000 a month or maybe 50000000 or 75000000 a month and keep going. It really depends on getting the airlift made for our visitation. We are comfortable making money in Singapore, it's growing.
October is Golden Week, the business keeps continuing to feel better, it feels stronger, but the change will only happen there in a step change way when you have access by air travel, obviously. And we're hopeful that in this quarter, we'll see some more developments and we'll see even further as again, unlike the U. S, the COVID situation appears to be pretty stable in most countries in Asia. So it makes us hopeful that more people open their borders up and allow air travel. And that will drive Singapore back the levels of comfortability.
And if I could just hey, it's Patrick. Let me just add one comment. I think it's an important thing to note that in Singapore, things really were open in a phased way after the circuit breaker. And so we really didn't have our full hotel towers until August 1. And I think the other thing that's important to note is it did ramp across the quarter.
So Singapore is slowly resuming operations in a more normal way and we're starting to see the benefits of that as we resume the profitability. And so it was a ramp across the quarter in Singapore and the trajectory is positive.
Very helpful color. Thank you.
Your next question comes from the line of Jared Shojaian with Wolfe Research. Your line is open.
Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. On Marina Bay Sands, can you tell us what percentage of your business historically has come from Mainland China? And then I guess on the cross border issues, I mean is it possible that for Macau, some of the cross border issues, just the sentiment of that could be a headwind in the near term, but potentially positive over the longer term if more demand ends up shifting to Macau?
We're not going to break out percentages as it relates to profitability coming out of China into Singapore. But I will say it's a very important market for us. So we're not arguing that it's fundamental to our growth and success as is most countries in Asia depending on China visitation. So we'll keep it at a very macro level. As far as the Dublin store as I referenced because I think it's very, very helpful in Macao that the Chinese consumer one reason our retail business on the high end is booming according to our people in the ground is that they can't fly to France or the U.
S. Or wherever they travel to and buy their luxury goods. So they're buying it at home. And you see the surging retail numbers and the growth in the economy coming out of China. China is back to a pretty good place.
Growth, I think is back and the renminbi is strong and China is doing very well compared to the rest of the world including the COVID situation. So that bodes very, very well once we get inside the bubble of the China bubble of the containment, I think our business in Macao is going to be just fine and dandy quickly. It's not so positive for Macao, I've heard it as simple because there may be a hesitation over the country up to air travel. And I'm speculating, but we don't hear anything coming out of China right now as far as opening up the balance of not just Singapore, but Asia, Japan, Thailand, etcetera. So it will be helpful because demands in both gaming, retail, leisure travel will probably be very strong in Macao as those IDS and COVID barriers come down.
And hopefully, they will come down because of the health situation in both accounts and mainly in China is very positive. So it's very helpful in the account, no question and probably not as helpful in Singapore.
Okay. Thanks, Rob. And I'm curious, Rob, just to get your perspective on this. I think I know the answer to this, but curious to hear your response. Given that Vegas is recovering, we're a little bit closer to a vaccine today, hopefully.
And Macau has been, I think, a lot slower to recover than people expected. Is it still your expectation that Macau could and should get back to prior peak revenue before Vegas?
I believe so. I think Macau, let's be honest, the country is very China is the market for Macao. China is in very favorable position. The record is really the Pearl call, renminbi, the economy, the safety of the COVID, they've done a great job in sustainable recovery over there and it feels as we transfer to Macao in the near future. I just don't know when, but I feel very good about prospects in the calendar in the future and hopefully in the near future.
But we don't know, again, within our control. But I think the government took it slowly and we had a hand to the governments in China and Macao. It's been very it's been frustrating, but they get slow and you see it opening gradually. We see the recovery in premium mass, the base mass to follow and probably the jump in after that. So Macau, I think, recovers quicker.
Having said that, I for the first time I'm feeling Zegit has some bright spots and you feel some this is definitely a leisure customer weekend days past year on the weekend much more had been previously. It's not so attainable mid week, but again, that's always a group area of strength. And we're seeing group calls. I mean, our team is getting a response. People want to come back to Las Vegas.
It just, I think, takes longer. And if you reference, I pray there's a vaccine for all this. And I do think that's a tipping point. The U. S.
Has to get healthy. We still have about 70,000 people infected one day last week. It's still staggering the level of what's happening. So until people feel safe, they're not coming to Vegas. But when they do, they're going to come back and they're very confident that if I didn't make a bet, I bet on Macau much quicker recovery than Las Vegas has some challenges where Macau just has to have that value come down and let people come in.
That's all it means.
Means. Your next question comes from the line of David Katz with Jefferies. Your line is open.
Hi, afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. Good to hear all of your voices and hope you're well. I just wanted to follow-up on the IBS circumstances. What we see in here is a negligible number of cases, both in Macau and the relevant areas of China.
What light can you shed on what the Chinese government and the Macao government might be looking for change to occur? Or is it just a function of taking the time administratively to convert back to the kiosks that we've known about in the past?
Mr. Chubb, are you still awake?
Yes. Well, I think the way you have to look at it and it refers back to what Rob said, what a great job. I think the governments in China and the local government have done in terms of controlling the pandemic. But one result of that is, I think each step of relaxation is handled very cautiously. So I think it's more the case that we need the passage of time where we can see that everything is working in order, and there are no issues arising from people movements of large numbers.
And I think your point about, do they move from manual to kiosk, we already do have feedback from customers and consumers that in different parts of China, you do have a much more abbreviated application process. So I think this will work its way out, assuming that everything remains in order as it relates to the control of the pandemic.
Rob, this is Rupert. Can I jump in?
Please do.
No, I think the current situation is the government know what needs to be done, including persuading the Chinese government to work on the kiosk rather than manual processes, extending the 14 days of the validity of the test certificate. But we must remember one thing. What you want to avoid is a shutdown again. So that's why both the central government and the CAL government been working very carefully because they don't want a resurgence or an outbreak of COVID in Macau, which has held its fort for so long. And that's why they're moving slowly but surely.
But what we're seeing is the both the central government and the Macau government knows exactly what needs to be done and they're moving in the right direction.
Thank you for that. It sounds like a fair plan. Sorry, go ahead, please.
No, good morning. I think we're lucky that they're thinking long term. It's frustrating for all of us who want to happen yesterday. We want to so badly see this market open back up. We want to get back on track.
And it's frustrating, but I think the comments of the guys in Macao, it's going to pay off long term with long sustainable growth and back to a better environment. We just it's hard for us to hear to accept it without getting antsy. But I think when those restrictions are lifted or revisited, I think it'd be great for all of us.
I appreciate that. And if I can ask one detailed follow-up. Within the context of the recovery in Macao, and I appreciate the color around October starting to approach or get to breakeven. How should we how would you have us think about the Londoner and its ramp within the context of all that? Presumably, it's on a different track and a different trajectory given the capital.
Sure. Rob?
Why don't you take that and I'm going to ask you, please take it.
Sorry, you want to go first or
No, go ahead. You initiated it.
Yes. I think the first point is what Rob said earlier that this is a product driven market. And it's I don't know, it's hard for us to convey to you over the phone just how excited we are about the products that we're about to bring on. And of course, we have brought some of that on already through the Four Seasons, the new hotel at the Four Seasons. But obviously, the bigger piece will be the comprehensive product that we're going to put out there through the London and Macau.
And I think when you think about the construction progress we've made there, obviously, we've taken full advantage of the pandemic cessation of some of this business in the SEC side, and we've accelerated much of our programming as a result of that. And I think when we see the segments that are recovering, chiefly through premium mass, we really feel very good about the natural rollout progressively of a number of these new products. And that will start potentially towards the end of this year and we'll move on to the rest of the resort during the course of 2021. But we're very, very excited about what we're about to bring on to the market.
I just want to add one comment that when you had the SEC for years, it was not a great product, it didn't deliver. And then we've redone this product with 6,000 rooms and suites. At Casino, when you see it, the images are spectacular, a redone retail environment with the epicenter of the coat type strip across from the powerhouse, which is niche with twice the key count. I don't think we couldn't be more excited to get the toy open and operational. David Beckham will cut the key and show me over there hopefully and do this with him.
And I think it's going to be extraordinary product and we think of how our products perform in Macao is open being a very underwhelming product to an overwhelming competitor to I think diminution. And we just can't wait to get back to Macao and see the impact. The same with the Four Seasons, which is now open. This is quite robust. And I think it's our future is tied to not to over extending giveaways and promotions, but moving great product that the customers in the cap come to.
So we couldn't be more this very set of the prospects of our new developments in the cap.
Look forward to seeing it.
Thank you for taking my questions. Thank you.
Your last question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Hi, good afternoon and thanks for squeezing me in. Really just wanted to kind of do 2 quick follow ups on topics.
Finish? Dan, what's the We'll give Sean if
you got dropped off. We'll give them directly. That's it.
Okay. Thank you.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Mr. John, Mr. Wong, great thanks for joining the call. We really appreciate it. Great color.
Thank you. Thank you.