I'm really, really excited to have you guys here at the conference and answer some questions.
Thanks for having us.
Yeah, of course. So maybe I wanted to start on curation. I think that was a key theme on the third quarter earnings call. Clearly, there's a lot of chatter about it in the adtech community generally. The idea is that publishers can monetize their data assets better than they currently are today. I think historically that's been an opportunity that was mostly captured by the demand side, not the supply side, but perhaps that's gonna change. And so could you maybe take this high-level idea from, like, a high-level idea down to what's the product, what's the service that you're gonna help publishers sell? And then secondly, when do you think something like this could contribute meaningfully to the top line of the business?
Yeah, great question. It was a theme that we did strike upon, mainly for a couple of reasons. And let's, you know, from an altitude standpoint, start at the highest. And that is, as you pointed out, the vast majority of targeting on the internet programmatically has been from the buy side, largely enabled by this common third-party cookie. So third-party cookies became ubiquitous. Buyers became very competent in using them. Their playbook was built around it. And even though publishers had some really good data, it wasn't coalesced. It wasn't federated across thousands of publishers. It didn't scale ergo. It was kinda like, "Yeah, it's great, but we got a playbook here." And so with the decline of third-party cookies and the inevitable deprecation from Chrome, there's an interest on the buy side now to take another look at that publisher information.
And also at the same time, you have these themes like, you know, maybe targeting left-handed jugglers hasn't always been that effective. And maybe context, a juggling article, might be more impactful. So context becomes a big theme. And the publishers turn to their SSP partner, who can federate it across, right?
Yeah.
And so all of a sudden now you have segments that are scalable and that are also translated the way that a buyer would like it to be translated, you know, off of IAB standards, wherever the case might be, that this is marketplace curation. And so you're starting to see publishers now be able to get buyers to buy segments of inventory that otherwise probably were undervalued. And at the same time, get to participate in the data economics, which has been a huge piece of the buy-side world, right? You look at some of the DSPs that carry 20% take rates, and you talk to the buyers, and they're like, "No, no, no. I only pay 8%.
Yeah, it's not the same.
Somehow there's a delta there. That delta usually is, as you're checking out, you're throwing data into your shopping cart, and you're like, "Whoa, that's a big sticker prices when you exit." And so publishers have never enjoyed those economics, and we are fast approaching an era where they will be able to, which is gonna be terrific for them, and for their SSP partner will participate in those economics as well. And I should say that that's what I largely described there was the DV+ business. CTV is a first-party data business. It is logged in, authenticated, credit card dropped. They have gold, and that won't change anytime soon.
On the curation and the DV+ business, is the way it's going to manifest that suddenly instead of buying an Oracle data segment in my DV360 UI, instead of buying the Oracle segment or the LiveRamp segment, now I'm buying a Magnite federated segment? Or is the data gonna be sold somewhere else outside of the DSP?
It could be that example. Another example that is quite prevalent now is, and this ties into another theme, which is the supply path optimization. So the big agencies of the world, let's just say you're. I'm gonna make this up. You're an ad tech company that specializes in a certain creative.
Yep.
You know, you're a Kargo, you're a Teads, where you have a special ad unit. You've gone to CBS. CBS says, "Yeah, I'll give you real estate on the page. That's a cool ad unit, and I'll split revenue with you." Increasingly, the agencies are like, "That's awesome. I'll buy it, but I don't wanna buy it from other, 12 different places.
Yeah.
Partner with Magnite and curate it on their platform, and then I'll just buy the Kargo segment, the Teads segment. And so you're seeing a lot of that actually start with the flywheel. And that is, there were tens of, you know, I wouldn't say thousands, but there were, you know, 100 companies that were doing their own curation, but had to create their own exchanges to have it occur. And now it's happening on big platforms like Magnite.
Got it. I'd love to jump to CTV. I think one of the challenges in the business has been a lot of the inventory is sold on a programmatic guaranteed basis. Could you maybe help me and the audience understand how long it takes to take a publisher who's selling programmatic guaranteed and kind of walk them up to private marketplace, walk them up to kind of open exchange where you can earn better economics?
That Google went a step further. A lot of it's direct sold. I'll settle for, I'll settle for programmatic guaranteed.
Yeah.
'Cause that means they're doing programmatic. I think the way it works is that these guys are very savvy sales organizations. They've been doing it for 50+ years. I'm talking the big broadcasters. CTV is much more segmented than we tend to think of it. We think of CTV as Netflix, Disney+ , you know, Paramount, Max. And that is true. And those are the shiny objects that the advertisers love. But you also have, you know, huge businesses in LG, Samsung, Vizio, Roku. So it's a broader, more diverse ecosystem. But to answer that question, if you have a linear broadcast team or a linear sales team, and you are now translating that into the streaming world, your preference 100% is to control the access to the advertiser. You do not want someone stepping inside.
That's your initial game plan 'cause it's always working broadcast, and so what they do is they start off just selling direct.
Yeah.
Then they graduate to programmatic, but very controlled, as you pointed out, you know, private marketplace or private guaranteed, where they dictate the price. They dictate the audience segment. You wanna buy moms with young kids on Disney, that's my segment. This is what it's gonna cost you. Here we go. Let's go. Send me an insertion order. But little by little, the buyers are like, "No, no, no, no. Why do we want data appended to it?" and so what you see is someone like Disney claiming that, you know, as we exit 2025, they'll want 70% of their business to be programmatic.
Yeah.
Now programmatic to them may be, you know, 80% of that might be programmatic guaranteed, 20% probably invite-only auction. And that would be the next step, right? So that segment of moms with young kids, instead of just doing the deal with P&G, you invite P&G, and you invite all their competitors, and you say, "Hey, have at it, but I wanna know who's bidding on it because this is precious inventory in a precious ad slot.
Yep. Got it. For those in the audience that don't know, you guys won the Netflix RFP earlier in the year. Obviously, I'm sure that was a competitive process, right? Could you maybe help us understand what are the products or capabilities that you think put yourself in the position to win that business?
Yeah. No, we're really excited about that opportunity, largely because, you know, when they first announced that they were going into the advertising business, they really didn't have any advertising DNA. Why should they? They were, they never did advertising, and so they hastily struck an agreement with Microsoft. And, as depressing as that was, it also gave the Netflix team time to build a team, build capabilities, and understand, "Okay, this is what we want from an ad business." So when they went back out to RFP it, you're dealing with a very educated, sophisticated group. And, yes, very competitive.
And I think what set us apart, or what they tell us set us apart, is that, although they were adamant about what they wanted to build, they wanted to build their own ad server. They're very concerned about touching the consumer, touching the consumer data in the ad experience. And they want to control that and own it 100%. If you go out from that to, you know, demand coming in, they're a lot less religious about that. And they're like, "Hey, that's been done before. There are people that do that well." The interesting aspect was they kept saying, "Don't come to us with an ad server. I know you have one. We don't wanna look at it. We're building our own." Yet probably 70% of the tools they're taking from us are from our ad server. And that's not to be glib.
It's just that ad serving tends to be this monolithic thing, and it really isn't in the programmatic world. It's much larger than that. So we felt as though we're uniquely, competitive, or advantaged in this instance because of the ability to be modular. Take this from the ad server. Don't take that. You don't have to call it an ad server. Call it tools. And take this from our streaming platform. So what we have brought to them and what we continue to build for them is quite unique and custom. And that's really been the philosophy behind bringing all these companies together to be able to say, "Hey, take a little bit of that. Take a little bit of that," because it's not gonna be this one-size-fits-all for the premium players in CTV.
Do you think that winning Netflix has had a, has been a benefit to other RFPs? Like, are you able to take a halo customer and, you know, it's obviously big news in the industry that you won them. Do you think it's been beneficial in other deals?
Oh, no question, and given the expansive footprint that we have, we're basically, well, we are literally doing business with every programmatic player out there, in almost every case as their primary programmatic partner. It's more of a kind of expand than land 'cause there's just not that much out there, from a domestic standpoint, and so what folks have scratched their heads and said, "I didn't know I could just take some of that.
Yeah.
And so we're being able to work with them in different ways as opposed to just the guy that can bring DSP demand. And I so it's been super helpful there. It is really helpful internationally. International has been a very tough nut to crack, largely because these, you know, you think of a EMEA and APAC, but really it's France, it's Germany, it's Spain, it's the UK. And they're all very unique, and they're all very, very local-oriented, and they're all very controlled by a handful of broadcasters that had no need to go programmatic because they weren't being forced to do it. Now that you have Netflix going global, Disney+ going global, Max, Paramount+ , we go along for the ride globally.
When you start to disrupt those markets, they turn to a natural leader that says, "Well, those guys want the Netflix business, and they're going global. We probably should talk to them." So we recently announced a win of TF1 in France, and so I think that not just the land piece of it and the expand the land will come from international growth going forward.
Got it. Another, another partner I wanted to ask about is Disney. There's been a lot of noise, I think, around that relationship over the last two years, and maybe more specifically over the last couple of months. I think, obviously, after the noise, you ended up renewing the deal. And what it sounds like is gonna happen is they're gonna continue to grow DRAX with Trade Desk and DV 360, and you're not gonna participate there. But you're still gonna participate in with the rest of the DSPs that are bringing it to DRAX, and you, you got inventory in Latin America and some additional live sports in the inventory in the new deal. And so I think the, the, the question is, like, how do those things net out? Like, is Disney gonna be a growth partner for you over the next couple of years?
Do those things net out to flat? Help us understand, you know, how the new deal changes your growth trajectory with them.
Yeah. Unequivocally a growth partner, period. I think we've been on record as saying that. And it's, look, in fairness to Disney, their job is to make Disney successful.
Yeah.
And part of their unique marketing proposition is, "Hey, we've built a ton of stuff ourselves. Don't worry about whether someone helped us do it. We built a ton of stuff ourselves. We're different. We have better data than anyone else. Come to us and deal." So we're never gonna get the pat on the back that we think we deserve. But that's fine. We're grown-ups. We do a lot of business with them. We understand what they have to get out of the world. So our relationship has expanded and that contracted. And as they go global, just immense opportunities across the board. Now that ESPN is on their DRAX stack, they used to be on the GAM stack. It's only more and more opportunity. So I wouldn't think of DRAX as being competitive at all with us. Part of DRAX is us.
It's just that, they'll always be marketing in a different way than perhaps we would love them to. But great partnership, super solid, and big growth opportunities. Because a lot of the new business that we've going back to your original question about the maturation or the length of this sales cycle to go from direct sold to programmatic direct to biddable, a lot of these new opportunities carry biddable with them. When you get to 30 DSPs that you've integrated into it, you're naturally moving into a biddable world.
Yep. The last partner I wanna ask about is Amazon. I think that at the beginning of the year, there was a lot of investor consternation around the launch of Prime Video, the effect that Prime Video might have on CPMs and the connected television industry. I think now that the conversation has more moved to what they're doing in the DSP space. It seems like, you know, we thought the play was having a big owned and operated video business, and it certainly seems like that's gonna be the case. But they're also, it seems like the DSP's growing pretty fast. And so could you maybe remind the audience how you partner with the DSP? Are they buying inventory in DV+? Are they buying any CTV inventory? Help us understand the extent, I guess, of the partnership that you have with them.
Yeah. It's very strong and very collaborative. We aggressively lean into new entrants, not that Amazon is a new entrant by any stretch, but entrants that are getting really serious about both sides of the business to help them merchandise or offering. So we are one of three exchanges that the DSP buys off in the DV+ world. They went through a rigorous process, and they certified only three platforms. So they obviously can buy their own and operate it. But if they're going off platform in DV+, they either buy from us and two other competitors. In the CTV world, they're actually a top five DSP for us. That's not the case in the DV+ world, but that's. I would have to say we probably over-index on their spend. So it just shows you that they're climbing.
And it's not surprising that one of the areas of strength for them will be in the CTV area, just given the nature of the types of advertising that they work with, the partners that they work with on their platform. They're steeped in TV advertising. And so anything that's similar to that, that is performative, that has metrics, that has attribution attached to it, is gonna be very attractive to those types of advertisers.
Yep. You beat 1Q24 revenue or contribution ex-TAC by 5%. And I think that March Madness was a big driver of that. And so I think the natural question is, what needs to happen to make more live sports inventory available programmatically in 2025 and 2026?
Yeah. I think if you look at, and again, live sports, we tend to think of the Super Bowl, you know, or the NCAA finals. Then there's this plethora of long tail. So what needs to happen first is it has to get to the streaming world. And that, you know, almost checkbox, right?
Yeah.
Every major league, even the tertiary leagues, they're going streaming first as we see two games during Black Friday, on Amazon, etc. So I think that, that's the first thing. It has to be available in streaming. The second is, we're going to have to get to a point where, we're not just thinking of NFL games because NFL games may never be programmatic. It, it's the gold, right? And it's so rare, and the ads are so sought after that they may never have a need to go programmatic. But the NBA, the NHL, so all these leagues that have many, many games and 30 games a night, they're all coming online now, and they're made for programmatic. What needs to happen for that to really engage in is technology. If you think about the way programmatic worked before, you would go to your DSP.
You would say, "I wanna spend $100,000. I don't wanna spend $100,000 over seven days." And it would pace it, and it wouldn't go through your spend limit. And if anything happened, like a spike of an audience that you liked, you'd tamp it down, and you'd be like, "I'll go through my budget." Meanwhile, if you're State Farm, it's Saturday afternoon, and it's a Big Ten game, you want that inventory. And it's not built that way. And so what we've been doing with our sports partners, WBD, through Turner, Disney, Paramount, we've been working with them to build tools on the sell- side that can help better forecast it for buyers, and so we think that sports is gonna be an increasingly big part of our business. And as we start to complete the build of these product features, it will become more mainstream for programmatic.
So, first it was a behavior adoption. Now it's a pattern of, you know, behavior as it comes to selling go-to-market strategy, and then lastly, technology. And we feel very comfortable where we are there.
Are you gonna get access to the March Madness inventory again, next year, do you think?
Yes, 100%. But that doesn't necessarily come direct, right? And so, what we see it through is the virtual MVPDs.
Yeah.
We'll see it through international broadcast. Like, so if a Channel 9 in Australia gets the international rights for March Madness, we'll help monetize that 'cause they're further advanced in programmatic. So we see a lot of inventory. Heck, we do see NFL games, but it'd be foolish to say we're the programmatic partner of the NFL. But, you know, the virtual MVPDs is where we see most of the inventory right now.
Got it. I'd love to jump back to DV+. It grew 10% in 2022 and 2023. And I think slowly the growth rate has decelerated, and I think it was about 5% in the third quarter. I don't think there's been an enormous amount of attention paid to that part of the business and the investment community over the last couple of years. So could you maybe just remind us what you think the medium-term growth rate of DV+ is?
Yeah, I'll take that and good.
You know, it never gets any attention except when it grows at 5%.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. First, to level set size of the business. So our connected television CTV business represents about 43% of our business. And then, you've got, mobile, which is about 40% of the business, and desktop, which is about 17% of the business. And so when we talk about DV+, it's that, the non-CTV are about 57% of our business, that, that we're talking about. I think the way to think about it is, if you look at eMarketer or Magna, some of the other folks that, that estimate those things, desktop is, I think folks think will be somewhat flat over the medium and long- term, maybe low single-digit growth. Mobile in the low double digits, maybe, mid, mid-teens.
If you think about that kind of growth and average it for us, you know, I think medium-longer term, you could see mid-single digits to low double digits is a pretty reasonable expectation.
Got it. Closing arguments in the Google Ad Tech antitrust case happened, I think, last week on the 25th. It seems like the conclusion that everybody's coming to is there's gonna be a separation of GAM, Google Ad Manager, the ad server business, from the SSP business. Seems like most people are honing in on that as the most likely outcome, or a remedy from the trial. I guess, do you think that your market share benefits in a world where those two assets are separated?
And then if you're an investor, how would you encourage people to try to quantify or think about the potential magnitude of the benefit?
It can't hurt, right? If you look at our DV+ business, we are substantially the second largest player in the DV+ programmatic business. We peg our market share to be, you know, mid-single, upper single digits. That would make Google's market share, you know, upwards of 60%. Anything happens, we ain't going down. That's a good thing. A 1% shift in market share of DV+ is substantial.
Yeah.
Yeah. In the remedy, I guess, comes out in January, but it does seem very much that it's more focused on the sell side and decoupling the what they were doing was forcing publishers to adopt the Google Publisher technology to get access to the Google demand. It was not showing up anywhere else. And if you didn't take my exchange, you ain't getting the demand. So decoupling that and saying, "Hey, you shouldn't have to couple the two." And furthermore, you shouldn't own it all. In that instance, I think that what investors should look at is it's a long-term, you know, call. I don't know if anyone could, you know, try to size it up. Some have tried, but, you know, you go through legal battles after legal battles.
This could be a three, four-year process even after the remedy's announced in January.
That makes sense. Maybe if we could ask a question about near-term trends. I think a lot of brands described kind of a dislocation in programmatic ad spend around the election, whether it was due to a crowding-out effect or concerns around political volatility. I don't think the reason matters so much. I think the question is, any thoughts on kind of how spend rebounded or didn't rebound post the election?
Yeah. We, you know, just as a policy matter, we don't comment on trends, you know, post- earnings. But as a general matter, what you've described is completely accurate. There's folks that kind of sit on the sidelines. And then, you know, in a typical holiday season, you have a ramp up to Black Friday. And then, you know, first couple of weeks of December are usually, you know, fairly strong.
Mm-hmm. Got it. As we think through 2025, I guess, how do we think about headcount growth? There's a number of, you know, new partnerships, new inventory. You're gonna have to scale with Netflix. Do you need additional heads to, I guess, manage those processes, or can you leverage the existing resource to grow those new partnerships?
Yeah. Good, good question. We ended the quarter, third quarter, with about 930 employees. We have pretty good leverage on our employees. So there's some sell-side analysts that, you know, put all, look at revenue per employee for ad tech companies when we're always in that upper, you know, quartile, from a, from a leverage perspective. So we do pretty well with, with what we have. And I think in general, we can manage the business that we have without adding new employees. That said, I, I would expect some modest, you know, increases in headcount. We've got some international expansion opportunities that we would support. And then there's always gonna be some potential for discretionary investment, particularly in our engineering product and engineering group. So we've got this huge CTV potential ahead of us. And, you know, we'll be making some decisions. We're going through that planning cycle now.
I would expect to have more to say about that, come February.
Got it. One area of the cost structure I wanted to hone in on is gross margins. I think over the last couple of years, EBITDA margins have expanded by a pretty robust amount. But you have seen some gross margin compression over that period of time. And so I think the question is, could you maybe talk about some savings or efficiencies you've been able to find on the cost of compute, the cost of storage or bandwidth in the past? And then what are your areas of focus, kind of in that cost category in 2025 and 2026?
Yeah. That's a good, that's a good dynamic to highlight. And so to put in context, our gross margin on a GAAP basis is about 69% in Q3. That includes depreciation and amortization. We also look at our gross margin on a cash basis or an adjusted EBITDA OpEx basis. And that was 78% in Q3. The dynamic that we've had, as we've gotten into the CTV business is that business runs primarily on the cloud. And so with the DV+ business, if you have some capacity expansion, that would show up in depreciation, because we run that bus, the DV+ business on-prem with machines that we own and data centers. CTV has been on the cloud. And so there's an AWS cost component. And you see that in the cash costs in our cost of revenue. And so that's been driving some of those dynamics.
I think the way to think about our tech stack evolution is 2023. You know, we'd acquired two different CTV streaming companies. We brought those platforms together. 2024 was really about per-unit cost optimization. So as we're running on the cloud, we've been able to offset any volume growth costs with optimization and the per-unit costs. I think what you'll see in 2025 is we'll be putting some investment from current resources, maybe some additional resources. We'll be putting investment into moving more of our CTV business on-prem. There's some pretty significant leverage there. We'll be going through that process in 2025. You probably won't see all of the benefits of that in 2025. It will lay the table for some, I think, some very interesting gross margin expansion in 2026 and beyond.
That's an interesting concept. I guess the natural question is, do you need more CapEx in 2025 to support that? Does CapEx step up? Or do you have enough capacity kind of on the existing on-prem servers to handle additional CTV?
We have most of the capacity. There'll be some modest increase. We, I think our CapEx, in 2024, we talked about being a little bit more than $50 million, and so I could see some, some modest expansion, but not, not super significant.
In 2023, you consolidated the tech stack. I think post-acquisition, there's something like six tech stacks running at the same time. You winnowed that down. How do you feel today about kind of the complexity of the tech stack, the number of systems you're running? Is there room to consolidate further? Or do you think that you're kind of good where you're at?
I think there are, if there's consolidation going forward, it's probably gonna be more on the presentation layer, the UI. As I said before, you know, we had an ad server. We had a DV+ platform. We had two streaming platforms. That became one streaming platform. And the idea is that we have such an overlap between folks that use ad serving functionality and the streaming platform that a unified interface makes all the sense in the world. Putting them together probably doesn't make all the sense in the world for a myriad of reasons. But for our customer, to be able to have them feel it's easier not logging into two different locations. So that's all gonna occur in the first half of this year. So no huge heavy lift, but more on the presentation layer.
Do you think that makes the cross-sell easier when you don't have to?
100%. Yeah. Because today, you still have that bias where it's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't sell me an ad server. I got one. Talk to me about, how I can make money on programmatic." And then if you show them one interface, you're like, "I love that feature, DataLock. That's awesome. So my data can bleed to DSPs." You go, "Well, that's part of the ad server feature.
Exactly. You do buy the ad server, yeah.
You bought the ad server.
Maybe I'll ask about M&A. You know, the company obviously hasn't been shy. It was Telaria and Rubicon Project. And then it was Magnite. And then there was SpotX and SpringServe. So clearly there isn't a hesitancy around M&A. Are there capabilities missing from the portfolio today that it could make sense to acquire?
I'm not sitting on the fence. We were very deliberate in not just eyeing these opportunities, but making sure that it was one cohesive company and not this portfolio, so we're very leery of anything that might look like that. I think we have everything we need. We have a terrific balance sheet. David has whittled down the debt ratio, so we certainly have capacity. We have cash. We have capacity to do it. But I really do feel as though we got the gems. We put them together now. If there's anything that's gonna be done through M&A versus just organic, it'll probably be more small acqui-hires to advance our product roadmap because we can acquire this thing. Would it take us three quarters to build it? We're always out there looking.
But, I don't think any investor should feel as though there's another big one in the offing.
David, and then to the extent M&A isn't a big priority or a big use of cash in the years to come, how do you think about further reduction of the debt ratio versus capital returns to shareholders?
Yeah. I think, you know, at a reasonable price, I think, we've been somewhat active in repurchasing some shares. In 2024, I think our net dilution will be about 2%, for the year. So we've had some, we've transitioned to some focus on that front. And so I could see that being a continuing focus, again, depending on, you know, share price. But I do think we're still undervalued. So there's some opportunity there.
With our last couple of minutes, I'd love to ask about Trade Desk. I think there's been a lot of news. And obviously, they're a meaningful partner. So I, I think it's worth talking about. You know, they have, they have OpenPath, which is kind of what they describe as a direct path to, to publisher inventory. Of course, you have kind of a competing product in ClearLine, I think you call it. And then recently, they announced, you know, they're gonna get into the operating system business. I think they're calling that product, Ventura. And they don't have any partners yet. But they seem to have high hopes for, for industry adoption. I guess, I guess those are the facts. The question is, Michael, how do you think about strategically kind of protecting yourself from disintermediation?
It's clear that the lines between DSPs and SSPs are starting to blur. And I think every time I open up my Bloomberg terminal and read the news, it seems like they're blurring a little bit more every day and in ways that maybe I didn't anticipate. And so how do you think strategically about fortifying the business or you're protecting yourself from that?
Yeah, and I think Trade Desk is a very unique beast and should be thought of as a Trade Desk scenario and not necessarily an ecosystem scenario. And that is, you know, the average client of ours still uses, you know, well over 20 DSPs. You can't be direct connecting 20 DSPs. There's a role for an SSP in terms of not just finding the demand, but being the clearinghouse, running all the software to make sure that the ads are malware-free. And, you know, the optimization that's required, the reconciliation that's required in terms of discrepancies. This is, if you drop that on a publisher's shoulder, they collapse. And so Trade Desk and, you know, kind of laser-focused efforts go to their, you know, advertisers and say, "Hey, we have a direct path into publisher A, B, or C. And the benefits of that are X, Y, Z.
Do you want to use that?" Meanwhile, they run that separate path, which is their normal connection. And we have not. The Trade Desk has done more business with us this year than they did last year, etc.
So.
Growing actually faster than what their growth rate is to the street. So, I think that there's always gonna be a case to be made that cutting out hops makes sense. We use that same argument when we go to agency holding companies. Cutting out hops makes sense. But I think overall, this is more on the fringe level in that the core job of a DSP and SSP really hasn't changed dramatically. As it relates to SSP world in OpenPath for CTV, we're uniquely advantaged, given our ad server where there has to be a point of connection.
Yeah.
The point of connection is our ad server. The economics are essentially unharmed when that occurs, so I think we're relatively well positioned, and I do believe you talked about Amazon before. With the rise of competition in this space and the rise of power of publishers and the data they have, it's a very different dynamic three or four years from now than what we've seen in the last three or four years, and I think that they're all kind of skating in the direction of more power on the sell side, not less.
Perfect. I think we're up on time. So I'm gonna leave it there. I see the clock is now ticking up, which might mean that we've gone over. Happy to leave it there. Thank you.
One more time.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Thanks, guys.
Yeah.
Thanks.