All right, I guess it's 12:00 P.M., so good afternoon, everybody, and thank you for being here. For those of you who don't know me, my name is Manav Patnaik. I'm Barclays' Information Services analyst. We're very pleased to have back with us here, Eric Moen, who's the Head of ESG and Climate at MSCI. So Eric, thank you for being here. Eric was here last year, but I figured just, as a, you know, brief setup, Eric, you know, you've been at MSCI for a while, but maybe just a quick background of, your tenure there and how you came into, you know, heading the fastest-growing piece here.
Great. Thank you, Manav. Very nice to be here again. So, yes, Eric Moen, heading up ESG and Climate at MSCI. And, actually today is obviously a significant day in our history, but also it's an easy to remember day because it was my first day at MSCI in the office September 11, 2001. So I've been there, this is, you know, essentially marks my 22nd year. I'm going into my 23rd year. Started when we were essentially part of Morgan Stanley and on the index side of the business.
Over time, I spent eight years in London working on both index and analytics side of the business, and then at the end of 2011, joined the ESG team when, shortly after we had acquired RiskMetrics and acquired the ESG content business within RiskMetrics. We quickly created MSCI ESG Research, and when I joined, it was essentially $20 million in run rate revenue, and now we've grown it pretty considerably since then. So it's been an exciting ride, and in that 22 years, spent eight years in London and the rest in New York.
Yeah. So, you know, talking about setting it up in 2011, I mean, I don't think anybody was talking for the ESG back then. So what was it that you guys saw that, you know, compelled you to invest so much in it, you know, before, I guess, the time?
Yeah, good question. And again, credit to Henry Fernandez, our CEO, who recognized, as RiskMetrics did when they acquired a couple small ESG research companies in 2009, 2010, that yeah, environmental social governance as a measure of risk and opportunity in the investment process would be much more important in the future than it was at that time. And that's really it was Henry and the management team's recognition that these are material risks, environmental social governance risks, that companies face, and how they manage and operate those risks are an important component to consider in the investment process.
And it was that recognition that there's an emerging field that we could be a leader in, and that recognition that drove the investments and the kind of early investments in ESG.
Got it. And so maybe if we fast-forward to today, again, maybe just to be, like I said, the audience, can you give us a flavor of the size of MSCI ESG business today, you know, just in terms of- obviously, we know you disclose the revenues, but I'm, I'm thinking more number of employees, number of coverage you have. Like, where are we at that point?
Yeah. So we've, I think when I joined in, again, around 2012, we were probably 100 people in the ESG, and now we are over 1,000, so something like 1,300 people when you look at both people that are 100% focused on ESG and climate, and then the everything, everything that comes around it, like the technology and support of everything. So we're well over 1,000 people. That's just like our revenues have grown 10 times, the resources on people have grown. We're globally based. We're in all the major financial centers of the world. You know, we're in the MSCI footprint centers, which is, you know, globally located.
You know, the size of the client coverage team, we have client-facing specialists in all the major financial centers working with clients in all the regions. So it's really a global business. You know, the $290 million in run rate, that is just the ESG and climate data and subscriptions, and then on top of that, we have indexes and analytics, and that's just under $500 million in the run rate.
Got it
At this point.
And when you think longer term, you know, you've talked... you said, you know, you guys grew 10x in the last 10 years, call it. And I know you guys do this 10-year strategic vision. And I think Henry has said before he expects another 10x. So how do we—I guess when you do that kind of planning as a flavor, like what are the building blocks that, you know, give you confidence that you can repeat this?
Yeah. You know, we look at the market opportunity. We look at what, what we've seen from ESG and then what we see emerging in climate risk. We see similar kind of paths, for example, for climate to grow into an opportunity that, you know, at least you've heard Henry mention it, that in the 10-year horizon could be every bit as big, if not bigger, than ESG. And the reason being is that we see that climate change, the risk from climate change is an existential threat to society and to financial markets, that we're embarking on a transition period where we're identifying those companies that are going to provide solutions for the climate change, and those companies that are at higher risk.
That capital flow that will be directed from the climate perspective is; we're just entering that phase, and so there, you know, pricing will be adjusted based on climate risk. That's what—and then all of the data and tools necessary to understand that risk is where we can see, we can chart out the 10-year period and say that this is across the ecosystem of financial markets, from asset managers to pension plans, to banks, to insurance companies, to wealth, to corporates themselves, are really starting to understand these risks and getting a handle on them. And that we can be a major leader and a provider of data, models, and tools to help our clients understand ESG and climate risks. So we, you know, we put a lot of...
We do this 10-year planning on every year and kind of calibrate, but over the last, you know, several years, there's only, I think, there's been increased confidence that there's a huge opportunity ahead.
How much of it, we'll get to it later, but in terms of just organic versus organic to, you know, go 10 times again, 'cause there were maybe perhaps not that many deals over the last 10 years, but you had a smaller base to-
Yeah.
-to grow off of. So is most of the planning on an organic base?
We emphasize and focus on what we can do organically, because we've had success in doing that, investing in our own capabilities. And so if we look at that growth from 20 to 290, the vast majority of that has been organic investments and organic growth. So with the exception of in the ESG and climate segment, we've had two key acquisitions over the years, GMI, Governance Metrics International in 2014, which brought on board our core governance data and analytics.
That was a key one, and then in 2019, Carbon Delta. In both cases, we integrated these acquisitions very quickly, but they were additive to our capability set, and in the case of Carbon Delta, which was out of Zurich, Switzerland, that added to our climate scenario analysis capabilities. So we do see, you know, we're monitoring constantly what might be a good acquisition or a partner opportunity. And the truth of the matter is, based on our kind of frugal management, they don't come along that often. But we, you know, we definitely think that there's capabilities and possibilities in the M&A space as additives to our capabilities. And then, you know, so I think our history is demonstrative. You know, will that accelerate or decelerate? You know, that's. We're going to be very, very frugal in our acquisition strategy, but we will continue to look.
Got it. And since we're on the topic, maybe I'll just ask, you know, the recent Burgiss acquisition, does that have... Is that part of the ESG strategy as well? Is an opportunity that presents, maybe you could just, you know, help us with that.
Yeah, and that's it very exciting. We announced the full acquisition. We are part owners of Burgiss, which is a company that will be brought fully into the MSCI fold now, which is really focusing on private markets and monitoring funds in the private equity and private market space, but also then the underlying companies' performance. And that's where from an ESG and climate perspective, it is very exciting. It was a little over a year ago, we launched a kind of an early product development with Burgiss, where we took their universe of private companies that they monitor via the funds that they monitor, and we have a basic set of information on those companies that we then use our models that we use for estimating Scope 1, 2, and 3 emissions in the public markets.
And we took those models, and we applied that to the 50,000 company universe that Burgiss maintains to provide basically carbon emissions estimates for those companies. Now, that's the starting point. We most of our content and data around ESG and climate has been on the public markets because that's where companies are disclosing this data. But we understand from our clients' perspective, covering all of their assets, and our clients being pension plans, asset managers, they're investing in the private markets, that this is a huge opportunity. We want to work with Burgiss closely on how we can build out this ESG and climate data sets, going from the extensive data set that we have in the public markets to private. So I'm very excited about the Burgiss.
Got it. And I presume, you know, going back to the 10-year strategy, private markets is a key factor in there. What are some of the other key building... I mean, you talked about climate, so there's climate, there's private. What are some of the other key elements in that 10-year plan?
So there's the third, I would say, key driver in these ten years is the regulatory environment. And what our clients are being required to report on and to manage from a regulatory environment perspective is only increasing. So in Europe, obviously, the strongest set of regulations that have been coming through in the last several years, the SFDR regulations that requiring asset managers and companies to report on ESG and sustainability factors and issues and data points that is driving a lot of our product development, is how we come up with solutions to address the regulatory environment for our clients. And so you have both from an ESG perspective and from a climate perspective, a lot of regulations coming out.
Even quasi-regulations like TCFD reporting, which is climate-oriented, is, we provide data and reporting tools to help clients manage TCFD reporting requirements. So, ESG has its own set of development requirements, climate, own set of data, model and development requirements, and regulatory solutions, which overlap on both, but they will have distinctive reporting. So that's the three kind of core areas, but then even within those, you have. We started ten years ago, really monitoring public equity markets. And that universe is expansive. You know, we cover from that perspective, our broadest index is the ACWI IMI index, which is All Country World Index, almost 10,000 companies. We cover, you know, that universe from a ESG perspective and a climate perspective.
Then you start covering other asset classes, that requires further investments, fixed income being a good example. We started really expanding our fixed income coverage when we started working with, at the time, Barclays, subsequently now Bloomberg and the Global Aggregate Fixed Income Index family, that we partnered to create ESG fixed income indexes on that family, where we had to cover additional securities from the ESG ratings perspective. So asset classes have their own investment cycle as well as these different themes like ESG, climate, and regulatory. Then you have new topics like biodiversity, which represent additional data sets, models that will be required by our clients and opportunities.
Got it. From a client perspective, you know, so firstly, just a quick follow-up on climate. I understand why everyone separates the two, but, you know, can you just talk about the overlap between your core ESG client base and then your just climate base, I guess?
Yeah, so we've been going back to the history of ESG. We really saw that growth of ESG integration in the investment process, which is what has driven a lot of the growth over the last 12 years in our ESG business, is that expansion of asset managers using ESG data and ratings content in their investment process as an additional information piece in their investment process. That's expanded to climate. So we have, you know, well over 1,000 clients. I mean, overall, we have 3,000 clients approximately in ESG and climate. The largest number is in ESG, and that's based on that growth over the 12 years, where we've increasingly licensed asset managers and pension plans with data.
The opportunity is to expand into other client segments like insurance companies, banking and trading, and wealth managers, and now corporates. So the size of the ESG client base is larger, and that gives us the opportunity to cross-sell this newer data sets of climate. And then when I say there is overlap in, for example, carbon emissions, we do take into account into our overall ESG ratings. But for climate, we have a vast range of additional data sets, not just Scope 1, 2, 3 emissions, that are reported and that we have to model for companies, but green revenues. We have models that identify temperature alignment with the global climate accords. We have different risk and scenario analysis in climate, and so that we have a lot of opportunity to cross-sell and upsell clients in these different categories.
Got it. Talking about clients, you know, I think I remember in one of your slides, you talked about the penetration in ESG is less than 30% of the UNPRI signatories are your clients. I don't know what the latest update is, but, you know, you talked about insurance, corporates, all these new... How do you think about the penetration opportunity? You know, you know, 1,000 clients seems like it's just scratching the surface, potentially.
That's true. That's and that is how we think of it. You know, on one hand, you do have, you know, we are and not to be, you know, to make it sound as arrogant by any means, because, you know, we're very cognizant of competition and our need to continue to improve. But on one hand, we have, for ESG Ratings, 48 of the top 50 asset managers that utilize our ESG content. You know, they're subscribing in some way, shape, or form to our ESG content. Now, that sounds like we'd be fully penetrated in that segment, but that's not the case.
We see over the cycle of the last 10 years, that clients can start licensing maybe in one location with one group of one investment group, and we can grow that over time. So while we have a good penetration of those top asset managers, there's definitely a long tail of small asset managers that we continue to penetrate. And even within those large asset manager clients, we have opportunities to grow our footprint within. And that's what we see, that's what has been driving a lot of our growth, but also then expanding into these new, newer data sets, so into climate, into regulatory solutions. There's tremendous opportunity. So I would agree with your statement there, that we're scratching the surface in the next 10 years.
Got it. Just out of curiosity, the two asset managers that use you in the top six? I know.
There's always room for growth there.
Okay.
Yeah. I mean, I won't speak for them, and you know, they'll eventually subscribe.
Fair enough. So just to wrap that part up then, you know, just the addressable market, I think in your 2021 investment, I think it was $3.2 billion, was the existing TAM for your existing solutions rather, and then there was less than $1 billion for kind of the new products. Like what h ow do you think of those numbers, how you're going to reduce that in your ten-year plans?
Yeah. So that, and as you know... The total addressable market is, it's sometimes a little difficult to come up with that figure in terms of, you know, we can see what's, you know, our client base and what we think that we can sell into them. And so we do reevaluate on a monthly basis, and I would say that we've now started to look at this TAM perspective from both the ESG product line and separately, the climate. And that's where we've-- I think there's been a lot of revised analysis on where this climate TAM for climate data models and tools has really, we've gained a lot of confidence, and that is also a multibillion-dollar TAM opportunity.
So you have multibillion-dollar TAM opportunity ESG in the long term, and a multibillion-dollar TAM opportunity in climate for data models, analytics, and indexes.
Got it. Maybe if you can shift a little bit to some of the near-term discussions. You know, in your, in your first quarter, you know, the tone felt like things were changing, and then I think in the last earnings call, I think you guys quickly clarified that. But just maybe from your perspective, you know, what happened in the first quarter? What happened in the second quarter? Like, what were the big changes, or maybe it was just the tone that was misinterpreted.
Yeah, I mean, look, I just do refer to what Henry said on the Q2, is that he felt that it was more than anything changing. It was a communication he called an issue, or that he felt he needed to clarify the communication, and that's what he did in Q2, is that there's no doubt in the long-term opportunity with ESG and climate, that the environment has been more challenged in 2023, from all the way from macro. Clients are more cautious on their budget right now because there's more uncertainty in the markets, and that affects the sales cycle of ESG and climate.
But in every conversation that Henry has with clients and in my conversations with clients, there is no question that asset managers, asset owners, insurers are, you know, as active in trying to understand the risks of their portfolios coming from ESG and climate in today's terms than they were a year ago. Now, they might have more budgetary constraints right now, and there's more, you know, cautious environment, so that does slow the pace of the sales cycle. But they are looking to understand, you know, how to measure ESG risk and opportunity and how to measure climate risk and opportunity, and then how to address the regulatory solutions. So these, you know, front and center are part of the conversations, and that's part of that long term.
So what's changed is really that overall macro environments being a little bit more challenged. But from a Q1 to Q2 perspective, not a lot has changed in that. It's just we are affirming our long-term approach. And you know, you have some... You know, quarter by quarter, and we've seen in the past, and we'll see in the future, there's of course you know, not every quarter is the same, and there's fluctuations on a quarter to quarter. You know, we like to look at what's the cumulative last 12 months looking like. And then that presents a probably a you know better picture than just a quarter to quarter. In Q2, we did see 20% increase from Q1 of our recurring net new subscriptions in ESG and climate.
But, you know, as we indicated on the call, you know, you will see some fluctuation where we stick by our long-term numbers that we've indicated.
Got it. And, you know, on the asset manager side, which is the bulk of your ESG revenues there, I think we get the same feedback. But I think Henry alluded to, you know, the hedge funds, wealth management, the smaller tier, maybe feeling a little bit more pressure. Is that just more around budgets, or is there something else in their ESG decision-making versus the larger asset managers?
Yeah, I mean, look, and if you go back to our transcripts of Q2, I think it was Baer Pettit, our President, noting that in climate, for example, the core with climate, which the run rate was growing at, it's a higher growing segment of ESG and climate because it's smaller and it's, you know, there's a lot of demand and need to understand climate risk at this point in time, where they maybe been focused in the past on ESG. But climate is growing at 50%, year-over-year from a subscription run rate perspective.
But even within there, as Baer noted, asset managers and asset owners are growing nicely, but it's actually in some of these other segments; it's growing even faster because of, you know, the demand for certain regulatory reporting, et cetera. I would actually say that, and this is, you know, we've grown in ESG and climate by moving from focusing exclusively on asset managers and asset owners, which has been our core kind of client base, to the increased opportunities that we see in the banking and trading segment, in insurers. And insurers are having a lot of regulations placed on them to measure their portfolio in terms of ESG, in particular, climate risk. So that's, you know, that's a category that we're seeing higher growth than other competior.
And that's also in a category where we leverage the full one of the MSCI capability set. So, I'm responsible for the underlying data and models for ESG and climate, but then that data feeds into our analytics platforms that large asset manager, insurer clients are using to understand from a portfolio level the aggregate ESG climate risk. And that's, you know, the having that all in-house and then having our content go into the indexes, having that all in-house, it is a very powerful ecosystem for our clients to leverage all aspects.
Got it. If you go back to the Q1 and Q2 commentary, I think there were two big buckets that Henry had called out. There was the EU regulation-led kind of delays, and then there was the U.S. dynamic. So maybe just to touch on the U.S. dynamic from your standpoint, you know, I think you'd call that political, you know, backlash against ESG, and it potentially lasting for a while, which I think spooked a lot of people. But now, how would you frame... I know you talked about some of it was communication issue, but just how would you frame that U.S. political backlash and, you know, how much of a headwind, if at all, that is?
Yeah, I mean, look, even, and Henry knows this well, even in states that are now having a little bit more of an anti-ESG stance, the actual asset managers and the pension plans in the States, their teams are very much in our conversations, they're continuing to utilize our data because at the end of the day, our data is representing financial risk and opportunity. And we've shown that in our studies over time, that you know, some of our key seminal research pieces, like the Foundations of ESG Investing , which showcase the value of this information and data models from an investment, long-term investment risk-return perspective.
We are if you're running a pension plan or an asset, you know, these are material risks that if you do not pay attention to them, then that will have potentially negative risk-return consequences. And so, you know, from a fiduciary duty perspective, our content is utilized in you know that from that perspective. And, you know, we're not viewing things from a. You know, we're looking at it from a practical risk-return perspective, and I think that's sometimes missed when you know when it's more of a political rhetoric situation. So I think what you know overall, I would emphasize that potentially call it noise from an investment perspective, we day in day out are talking to our clients that need this information from that risk-return perspective.
They're focusing on that. They're not, you know, focusing on, on maybe what is more of a noise from the political situation.
Got it. And then, on the EU side, I think it was the SFDR and the Article 9 classifications that were going through the process that, you know, I think had people delay decisions, perhaps. So just what's the update on the EU side in terms of where the regulations are and if that's, you know?
Yeah.
Showing back in your business now?
Yeah, I mean, look, the... We just had our clients in June complete their first required SFDR reporting that we helped them with. You know, two years ago, we created an SFDR specific data set and now reporting capability on top of that, which leverages our analytics infrastructure. That's, I think, important to note. W e at the end of June, our client base kind of completed that first annual required reporting, which was a big step, and that clears, you know, like, they can now move on to kind of doing that on our own base, but they've done that now.
And there has been clarifications by certain European governing bodies like ESMA, to kind of help clarify some aspects of Article 8, Article 9, giving our clients a little bit more confidence that they're, you know, are they interpreting those regulations correct? So we do see some of that regulatory maybe, you know, there's ambiguity being clarified over time, that's helping. But you know, there's, and there's other areas where regulations still need to provide further guidance, like in the SEC in the United States, which is still on the table, the SEC climate disclosures regulation, that looks like we'll get more clarity in the fall on when, where, how that'll be implemented.
Got it. Typically, regulation, I think, in your business, should be a long-term benefit for you guys. But in the near term, you know, one of the questions we get a lot is: If the SEC, everyone requires corporates to disclose more, you know, climate data, ESG data, that could be a potential negative, because your value add now is that data, not the value add. So how do you respond to whether that's a good or bad thing?
Yeah, we are definitively on the side of encouraging more disclosure around ESG climate from companies. It's only emerging markets and beneficial for investors. So, that's kind of first and foremost, that we're backers of all the regulation that helps provide accurate disclosure. And I would say the fact of the matter is that even if with increased disclosure, the universe of companies and asset class is so large that not only do you need companies... If something as ubiquitous as Scope 1, 2 for emissions disclosure, even there, across the globe, you still only have, you know, maybe two-thirds of large global companies disclosing, meaning there's a huge segment of large companies still not disclosing Scope 1, 2 emissions.
Then if you go down into smaller companies or emerging markets, it's even far less. So our value in gathering data, even if it's disclosed, we still have to gather data. It might be disclosed in a different format than globally is the norm. We have to gather data from a range of sources, including disclosure and other data sets. We have to clean that data, scrub the data, normalize the data, and present it to investors in a way that's comparable. And so that's a huge value add, and also build models where that data is absent, that no matter what, even if we, you know, with the SEC moves forward with that, it's only gonna help our. It's gonna make it a little bit easier for us to gather some of the data, but then we're gonna...
It's a collection of the wide data set and the deep data set that really brings value to our customers.
Got it. And I know you've always talked about how the analytics part is really your core expertise, so, you know, having the data available. But obviously, there's a lot of chat around gen AI and stuff, just, you know, your high-level approach in ESG, specifically, hear stuff about pilots with Microsoft and everything going on. But any specifically where you see the main near-term opportunities?
Yeah. On ESG, I would say we have... Going back to using the natural language processing, we've had to gather a lot of data on companies from disclosed documents that are disclosed and not necessarily even the 10-K. They're in a range of different disclosures. So we've got—we've been using AI and NLP, natural language processing, for 10 years in terms of... but getting better at it in gathering these 7 billion data points a month that we're now processing. So that's on the one hand, you know, that it's actually been part of our core capability set on the ESG side for the last 10 years and improving.
But I'm very excited about what we can do with partnerships that we've announced recently with Google, and we've had a long-running partnership with Microsoft, to leverage what more can we do from an AI, given that there's so much development that had taking place, that we are leveraging AI with these partnerships in gathering more of the physical location asset data. For example, right now, we gather 1.2 million physical location data points, facilities, that are linking them to companies. And that—why we're doing that is to then overlay our physical risk models to indicate what is the physical risk of those locations related to those companies.
So we can greatly improve the collection of this type of data using AI and techniques with Google geospatial analysis, you know, understanding the building heights better, that factor into the physical risk data. So that's one aspect. We can help our clients understand, you know, because we have so many different models and data sets and then methodologies, just keeping track of that and helping our clients understand that using AI and one of the applications at MSCI that we're developing to leverage our own data sets and methodologies, pointing clients and our own internal staff in a more efficient manner to get to the right source of data. That's the kind of thing.
Then quality control, using AI techniques to help manage the data quality, which is, at the end of the day, why our clients come to MSCI to use ESG and climate content, is that we spend a tremendous amount of effort making sure that we have the highest quality data.
Okay, got it. You know, one of the more recent questions we've been getting is around, or just the chat has been, you know, the actual rating, the actual score is, you know, not that valuable. It's all with the underlying data. One of your competitors, obviously, you know, I think, started creating this noise, but they've decided to move away there. I think you've been doing well. Just from your perspective, help us appreciate, you know, are they sold separately? Is it a packaged deal? How does that impact? Just any color there would be helpful.
Yeah. A good question. We understand that our clients, from, you know, from the get-go, when we provide the ESG ratings, they need to understand how those ESG ratings are created. And they're created by where it's a data-driven model. We're collecting data on, you know, a wide range of data points in a standardized fashion to industry by industry for ESG ratings. And the underlying data is critical for understanding what's driving the change in ratings. And so we've always been providing the underlying content with the headline rating, so it's, it's, it's a, it's a package.
And you know, we've recognized over the past four years that our clients want to get as much access to underlying data and transparency as possible, and we've increased the number of data that we provide as part of the packages, thousands of data points in the ESG Ratings package that we provide. That's a critical component of the value proposition. So we've always been, you know, providing that. And the value of the overlay rating, it's a common language. It's a way to summarize all that underlying content into a single rating or score, and that has its own value in application to indexes, portfolio construction, to just understanding for a fund, for example, what's the average score of the overall portfolio holdings?
So we understand that there's value in both aspects and that they, you know, for our clients, they might... We're impartial if they want to just look at the underlying data, but ultimately it's helpful to have that top of the rating in systematically understanding the direction of your portfolios.
Correct. So just to clarify, it's a package deal. People don't just buy ratings in any business that-
No. No, it's a. But then where, you know, we package the ESG Ratings, but we might, we'll package it for an asset class.
Yeah.
We'll say, this is the ESG Ratings content for the equity universe, but we can add on a fixed income universe. We can, we can add a climate data set, et cetera. So that's it.
Right. And then just to wrap up here in the last two minutes that we have. So it sounds like, you know, we had a little bit of a scare in 1Q, which was a communication issue. Growth seems to be in the 20s, stabilized well. If the macro improves, that'll obviously help you guys, but if you put the macro to the side, what are some of the key, you know, new products, launches, anything that, like that, that we should be, you know, looking out for that could help your growth rates?
Yeah. I mean, what we know that our clients, in order to effectively understand risk, they need to be able to have the data and the content on the full portfolio, the entire portfolio they're investing in. Which is not just equity, but it's obviously... And we have a huge group of clients now that are fixed income-focused clients that are utilizing our data. So one, over time, we know that we need to complete the full coverage of this universe. And even in the equity universe, we still have some emerging markets, small cap, final tail that we need to cover from an ESG and climate perspective, for example. So there's just the continuation of capturing this data for all of the core asset classes in the investment process.
So moving into privates, into private companies, we see huge opportunities as we gather data directly from private companies. That's an endeavor that we're just starting now, and that we see a lot of opportunity with the mergers. We have newer categories like biodiversity, that are emerging, and we will be, you know, looking to build products and data sets around that. We've already started that, but we see more opportunity there. And then just the sheer opportunities around climate. There's new models, there's developments of our existing models. This is still early phases, so the overall improvement in our measurement of climate risk will be incremental over the years.
Got it. Right. Well, we're just about out of time, so thank you, Eric, for being here, and thanks everyone for being here as well.
Thank you. Thanks, Manav.