When next we have NCS Multistage Holdings Inc (NASDAQ: NCSM). It is a leading provider of highly engineered products and support services that facilitate the optimization of oil and natural gas well construction, well completions, and field development strategies. Please welcome CEO and Director Ryan Hummer. Nice to see you again, Ryan. Welcome.
Yeah, no, great, great seeing you, Anna. Hope everyone out there is having a great day. I just want to thank Emerging Growth Conference for inviting us to present today. I also want to thank everyone that's taking time to watch the presentation. Maybe before we really jump in, I'll spend a little bit of time talking about who we are and where we're focused as a company.
We are a technology-focused oil field services and equipment company. We sell directly to the E&P customers, to oil and natural gas producers. That would include companies like Chevron, ConocoPhillips, Devon, Oxy, BP, Equinor, and in Canada, Canadian Natural Resources, Veren, Whitecap, and similar customers. Generally, we are competing with large oil field services companies.
Companies like Schlumberger or SLB, Halliburton, NOV, Innovex, Core Lab, and others generally taking on competition that's larger than we are and winning our fair share. Within that market, we tend to focus on certain areas where we can obtain a leadership position and earn attractive margins. Over time, this has really led us to four product lines, which I'll talk through a bit later. They all have a common theme.
The products and services that we provide enable capital-efficient, unconventional resource development. Historically, this has taken place in North America, but increasingly is taking place in other regions around the world. We focus on innovation and partnering with our customers to bring new solutions to market. Typically, these solutions will save our customers time, save our customers money, or maybe both, but also have the effect of helping them make better and more productive wells.
We pair this focus that we have on R&D and innovation with what we call a capital-light business model. We outsource the manufacturing of most of the components that go into the products that we sell. We perform the assurance checks on the components. We oversee the assembly of the products and ensure quality and reliability before sending the products out to the customer well site.
This has enabled us to minimize our capital investment requirements and has allowed us to generate meaningful free cash flow through business cycles. Typically, we'll spend 1%-2% of revenue on capital expenditures, which is pretty low for our industry. The graphs at the bottom of this slide provide our revenue by geography, our product and service mix, and also our revenue by product line. I will highlight here that we worked for over 200 customers in 2024.
We've got very limited concentration in the shareholder base, and no customer contributes more than 10% of our revenue. Before I leave the page, I'll note that we are traded on NASDAQ with the ticker NCSM. Our recent market capitalization and enterprise value are both currently just below $100 million, with EBITDA and free cash flow in 2024 of $22 million and $12 million, respectively.
A relatively low trading multiple and a robust free cash flow yield for our investors. I'll walk you quickly through our product lines. I know this is generally a generalist audience. I'll primarily focus on the value that our products and services bring. I'll start in the top left with fracturing systems, which represents 65% of our revenue as a company.
Through this product and service offering, we help our customers to maximize resource recovery with a more controlled approach to well completions. We sell the sliding sleeves that you see in the graphic in the inset, and customers will buy additional sliding sleeves for each new well that they complete using our technology. We think of this as a consumable item. It gets used up once as the customer completes their well.
The next well they drill, they need to buy more. We also provide a service whereby our personnel utilize a service tool while on location. They work together with the customer and other service companies to manipulate those sliding sleeves and to ensure we get the completion job that the customer is expecting. We believe that we're the global leader in this product line.
We've got an extensive track record and differentiated features both in our sliding sleeves and our service tool technology that allow us to operate in technically demanding environments around the globe. About 30% of all oil and gas wells completed in Canada use our fracturing systems technology, and we've successfully expanded into international and offshore markets with this product line as well.
To give you a sense of the potential scope of a well that utilizes NCS fracturing systems technology, in the Montney Formation in Canada, we recently completed a well that included over 290 of our sliding sleeves, with one of the sleeves placed approximately every 40 ft in the lateral section of the customer's well.
We utilized a single service tool during the completion, which allowed for an efficient and continuous operation, which supported our customer as they placed over 23 million lbs of proppant into the formation. This is really kind of leading-edge completion intensity, and the wells that the customer has drilled and completed historically in this area have been some of the best performers in the Western Canadian Sedimentary Basin.
Turning to Repeat Precision, which is on the top right of the slide, this is our second largest product line, and it serves a large addressable market, especially in the United States. Basically, if a customer is not using our fracturing systems technology in their wells, they'll utilize products that Repeat Precision can provide. Repeat Precision has consistently expanded its product offering to grow its addressable market over time.
We've long been known for having one of the highest performance composite frac plugs in the market, and we've added dissolvable plugs to our portfolio, which allows us to capture additional work on the same well bore with our customers. We've also recently introduced a composite plug with a new feature, which is designed to improve performance when used in customer well pads, which use simul- frac operations.
This is increasingly common in North America and in West Texas in particular. This new feature that we've embedded in our composite plug enables better operational efficiency in some of those simul- frac operations.
Together with the new product development around the dissolvable side and the feature, the contingency feature on the composite plug, which primarily have U.S. applications, we've made really good inroads in introducing Repeat Precision's technology to our Canadian customers, where we've rapidly gained market share in that market as well.
Tracer Diagnostics on the bottom left, this is a business that we acquired in 2017. Through Tracer Diagnostics, we provide our customers with a reliable and cost-effective service to help them improve their well designs and optimize field development. The learnings from what can be a relatively low-cost tracer study can really help a customer create, in some cases, millions of dollars in value.
How do they do this, and how do we help them? Typically, what we'll do is we will pump a unique tracer chemical into individual stages in a customer's well. We will then collect and analyze samples taken from that well and sometimes other wells in the area.
We do this analysis at our own laboratories. We have one in Tulsa, and we have one in Calgary. After those samples have been analyzed, we provide the customer with a report that they can use to make operational decisions, either for the well that they just traced or decisions that could be made as far as how they go about with their future developments.
Our customers will utilize the information from this service to evaluate changes to well spacing, so where they place their wells in the reservoir, and also changes to completion design, all with the objective ultimately of increasing resource recovery, so getting more oil or natural gas out of the ground and driving improved financial performance for the operator. Well construction on the bottom right is our fourth product line.
The core technology within our well construction portfolio is what we call the AirLock Casing Buoyancy System. In our industry, our customers are drilling ever longer laterals, which helps them to improve their economic returns. Probably five years ago, the average lateral length was about a mile and a half to 8,000 feet.
Today, the average lateral is more than two miles, and leading edge wells are being drilled to 15,000 or 20,000 feet, so think three or four miles. Really an application that customers are using to improve their returns and be as capital efficient as possible.
The AirLock systems help our customers ensure that they can take maximum advantage of drilling and completing those long laterals. It gives the customer assurance, and it saves them time in installing the well, which more than pays for the cost of the product.
I referenced in the introduction, the key connection across this product and service portfolio is really that we help our customers to maximize their return on investment from unconventional resource development.
In North America, this is typically focused on enabling operational efficiencies, although in some instances, we will enable better production results as compared to completing technologies, and the customers will choose to use us for that rationale.
In international markets, we really are helping our customers to accelerate their learning curves with respect to unconventional developments where the unconventional industry in the U.S. and Canada is a bit more mature than it is outside of North America. We are helping them to apply unconventional techniques in order to maximize the value of both their new unconventional developments by getting up to speed as quickly as possible.
In some cases, taking what we've learned and what we can enable through our technology and helping customers maximize the value of more mature assets and existing infrastructure. That's something that we're helping our customers do in the North Sea, among other areas.
Turning to the next slide, NCS's strategy was developed and introduced in 2002, and there are really three core business strategies that form our overall strategy. I'll talk a little bit about what each of those strategies are, but really just want to say we are starting to see real benefits from the strategy that we've implemented. The first strategy is to build on our leading market positions.
For us, these leading market positions include our market position in fracturing systems on a global basis, where we think we're the number one player, our presence in the Canadian completions market, and our strong resulting customer relationships. I spoke earlier about our fracturing systems technology being on about 30% of the well completions in Canada and growing share with Repeat Precision as well.
We've got great incumbency and presence in the Canadian market. The other leading market position is our global capabilities and our presence in Tracer Diagnostics, where in most markets around the world, we have a number one or number two market position. The second strategy for NCS is to capitalize on offshore and international opportunities, which we've been pursuing and investing in.
This is a focus for us really because international and offshore customers tend to buy based on technical characteristics versus price. There is also an ability to build stickier customer relationships over time. As a result, we can be compensated for the value that we provide to our customers if it supports our overall gross margin profile.
The third strategic component for NCS is to commercialize innovative solutions to complex customer challenges. This is really the core to what we do. We obtain and understand the voice of the customer and emerging market needs, and we deliver solutions that bring tangible value to our customers. We are always bringing new products to market and always are helping our customers to improve on a continuous basis.
One highlight for NCS as far as something that we've looked to to understand is this strategy working was our growth in markets outside of North America. Our international revenue more than doubled in 2024 as compared to 2023. It increased from about 5% of our total revenue to over 10%. The international revenue itself grew by more than 100% year over year. This really brought together all of the components of the strategy.
It was achieved by leveraging our leadership position in fracturing systems, again, in the North Sea and certain other markets, and also in Tracer Diagnostics in the Middle East, by capitalizing on some of the long-term business development efforts that we've had for international markets, and also by enhancing our service delivery capabilities through our technology to help us participate in a broader set of offshore wells.
We're excited about what we were able to accomplish in 2024 and think there are kind of a lot of really interesting things ahead as we continue to execute on the strategy going forward. This next slide, what I'll say is that our operational performance and operational execution has also been delivering strong financial results for NCS.
We grew our revenue by about $20 million in 2024, which represented 14% year-over-year growth. We do expect that we'll grow revenue again in 2025, despite what I generally characterize as a flat overall market for oil and gas activity, especially in North America. Our gross margin of approximately 40% across the years reflects the value of the products and services that we bring to our customers.
With our outsourced manufacturing model, our cost of sales tends to be highly variable in nature, although we were able to improve our gross margins by approximately 250 basis points in 2024 as compared to 2023. Part of that is that improvement in the mix for international revenue, which has helped to support our margin profile.
Our SG&A, on the other hand, is relatively fixed. The team at NCS has done a great job of controlling SG&A expenses over the last several years. This relatively fixed SG&A provides us with attractive operating leverage in the business, allowing us to grow our EBITDA much faster than we're growing revenue or gross profit.
You can see the impact of this over time. We grew revenue by approximately $56 million from our post-COVID trough in 2020 to 2024.
We grew revenue from a little bit over $100 million to just over $160 million. Over the same time, we grew our adjusted EBITDA by approximately $20 million. This provided an incremental adjusted EBITDA margin of approximately 35% over the period.
We think we can continue to deliver strong incremental margins, incremental adjusted EBITDA margins of 25%-35% over the long run as we continue to grow the business and grow revenue.
In addition, as you'll see on the bottom right, our capital-light business model positions us to generate free cash flow through industry cycles. Over time, we expect that we can convert approximately 50%-60% of our adjusted EBITDA to free cash flow.
You'll have year-to-year fluctuations, especially in years of high growth where we might be investing in working capital, but that 50%-60% over the long term is a pretty good rule of thumb. In short, I think NCS offers a very compelling opportunity for investors.
We've got an attractive organic growth track record, and we're focused on increasing our presence in growth markets for unconventional resource development, including Argentina and the Middle East in particular, but also in markets utilizing unconventional completion techniques in more conventional formations such as the North Sea.
We're delivering EBITDA growth with strong incremental margins. We continue to bring innovative technology to our customers, especially for technically demanding applications that leverage our engineering capabilities and provide an opportunity for higher margins. Fourth, our capital-light business model minimizes capital investment and allows us to generate free cash flow through industry cycles.
Finally, we have a strong balance sheet and expect to further strengthen it through free cash flow this year. At the end of 2024, we had approximately $26 million in cash on hand and approximately $20 million available through our revolving credit facility.
This, combined with the free cash flow that we expect during 2025, positions us very well to participate in industry consolidation or to evaluate a framework to return capital to shareholders in the future. That concludes my prepared remarks for today. I'd be happy to take questions, Anna, from you or from the audience.
All right. Perfect, Ryan. Thank you so much. You mentioned having a leading market position in the completions market in Canada. Why is this important to your business?
Yeah, thanks, Anna. That's a great question.
We're a little bit unique as a U.S.-listed company having more than 60% of our revenue tied to the Canadian market. Part of the background there, the Canadian market was really the first market to adopt our fracturing systems technology, and it remains our largest market.
As I mentioned, I think we participate in about 30% of the wells that are candidates for our technology in Canada. Potentially a bit more this year as we're starting to really see some momentum in the Montney formation.
As a result, we do earn 60%-65% of our revenue from Canada in any given year. Recently, the Canadian market has actually been a stronger market than the U.S. Really, this is a result of some relatively new infrastructure developments in the Canadian market.
There's an oil pipeline expansion that was completed in early 2024 that helped support more oil-driven customer activity that year. There's a project called LNG Canada, the country's first LNG export facility, which will be commissioned later this year, and that will support demand and pricing for natural gas as well.
That additional infrastructure has really been helping to improve realized pricing for our Canadian customers and improve their cash flows, and therefore has led to some modest growth in activity in the Canadian market, whereas the U.S. market has been characterized as kind of flat to down over the last couple of years just from an overall industry activity standpoint.
From my perspective, I certainly think that our relatively high exposure to Canada as compared to the U.S. will continue to work to our benefit over the next couple of years.
You mentioned you expect to grow revenue this year in a relatively flat industry environment. Elaborate on where you see that growth coming from.
Thank you. I'll take it market by market, I guess. We think the biggest driver for growth in Canada this year will be in our fracturing systems product line and in the Montney Formation in particular. We've had some really good success with customers recently, both in enabling some really encouraging production results, but also in providing some operational flexibility that just isn't available through competing completion techniques.
There are some instances in Canada where the customers are forced to monitor seismic activity with respect to their completions. If seismic activity hits a certain threshold, they need to shut down operations or potentially move to a different section of the well.
With other completion techniques, if you do that, it causes a relatively major disruption or you're going to give up part of that well and not be able to complete it.
We have built a lot of flexibility into what we can deliver to our customers with our fracturing systems technology such that if they need to move to a different section of the wellbore, they can do so, but they're not giving up that section that they left behind.
We can go back in there and access that later. I think that operational flexibility combined with those production results that customers have seen gives us some continued runway to grow in the Canadian market, and we'll see that this year. Growth in the U.S. should be driven both by the well construction product line as well as fracturing systems.
We added a few well construction customers late in 2024, and we're benefiting from that. We also expect a very busy second and third quarter in particular for fracturing systems work in the U.S.
We've got a lot of good activity lined up for the middle part of the year. Internationally, we expect to grow our business in the North Sea this year, which builds on success that we had with the first wells that we completed with several new customers throughout 2024 and early 2025.
In the Middle East, which is really the other big market for us internationally, we had a very robust year last year for Tracer Diagnostics in the Middle East in 2024 with a large project scope.
That work may get scaled back a bit this year, but that'll likely be offset by an increase in well construction work in the region. We received what's called a commercial purchase agreement from a large national oil company last year for two different products within our well construction portfolio.
Started supplying those products late last year, but activity has started to increase over the last few months. I think that'll likely continue to grow as the customer sees the benefits of using our technology in their unconventional resource development.
You also mentioned possible industry consolidation. How do you think about M&A opportunities?
Yeah, another good question. Maybe first, the energy sector, especially in North America, continues to mature. As a result, you've seen a lot of consolidation amongst our customer base, which is resulting in fewer and larger players.
From my perspective, I think it makes a lot of sense that the oil field services sector would experience consolidation as well. I think that it will. Obviously, our day-to-day focus is on our strategic plan and organic revenue growth, just executing that strategy. I mentioned the operating leverage of the business and how that can provide great results from an organic standpoint.
I also think that NCS can leverage its infrastructure and capabilities through the right M&A transactions in a way that can drive meaningful value for our shareholders. By operating across four different product lines and operating in virtually all the key oil and gas geographies, we have a presence in the U.S., Canada, Argentina, the North Sea, Middle East.
There are a lot of opportunities for us to find businesses that fit strategically with NCS and that could open multiple avenues for synergies, whether that be revenue expansion, cost synergies through economies of scale, or by leveraging our existing SG&A infrastructure.
With that, I think our cash balance, our credit availability, our expectation for continued free cash flow generation, that all positions us very well to participate in industry M&A. Now, there's no guarantee we'll be able to find the right target or come to terms on the right deal. If we do, we'll be prudent around valuation.
We'll also be prudent with respect to if there is a larger acquisition or opportunity that's out there. We'll maintain a conservative pro forma balance sheet and leverage profile, which is consistent with how we've operated historically.
Talk a little bit about what's a benefit for a customer to deal with a smaller firm like yourself, and can you use that benefit to further expand while keeping true to the reason companies sign up with you?
Yeah, great question. We see this a lot with respect to some of our product development efforts, where we can be a lot more nimble than some of the larger service companies at Halliburton, Schlumberger, Baker Hughes in particular, as far as taking that voice of the customer, understanding the need, getting the concept ready and through engineering, through field trial, and out and ready for production.
I think our product development cycle can be a lot faster, certainly, than a larger company. Some of the other benefits, and we've seen this through a couple of opportunities that we've had, and I'll speak to one in particular.
We, through our own efforts, have taken the fracturing systems product line and moved it from onshore to offshore, primarily off of platforms offshore. We had a large international oil company that operates in the deep water environment. They wanted to utilize our fracturing systems technology because of what it can enable from an operational standpoint.
They wanted to access some reserves from a target that is below where they would otherwise do their completions. They selected our technology just based on a portfolio of features relative to what they were looking for. We would not have necessarily taken an internal development to pursue a deep water system on our own.
That's an instance where we're partnering with that large international oil company to develop a system in a way that I think some of the larger service companies, they might not have the flexibility to do that.
For us, it's a benefit twofold. We get to have some of our R&D funded by the customer. As a result, we get a product to market with them that meets their specific needs to be deployed in an offshore environment. We can take that sort of baseline concept for our deep water sleeve system and service tools and then take that and market it to other operators over time.
I think there are multiple benefits that come with working with a smaller company like NCS, but I think it really comes down to responsiveness to the customer, whether that's in the course of just an existing operation, but also identifying the needs and bringing to bear a new product that will meet the needs that they have in a relatively short time frame.
What is the life of the sliding sleeve? Is there an increasing trend to the amount ordered by the customer?
Yeah, so help to explain this. A sliding sleeve, it basically gets installed in a customer's well, and it will be in that well through the entire life of the well that the well is producing.
Almost all of our sliding sleeves today are what we call our MultiCycle sleeves, which means you can open and close them multiple times throughout the course of the well. We do this really to provide the customer with a system that provides value during the completion, but then also can provide value for that entire life of the well, period.
As an oil and gas well produces, typically over time, you'll see an increase in the amount of water that gets produced relative to oil or natural gas. You may see things like breakthrough for water from an aquifer, subterranean aquifer.
From an operational standpoint, the operator would want to go in and potentially close off that water production because water is really a waste product in oil and gas. It needs to be collected and trucked and disposed of.
If you can reduce the water production, you can increase value for the customer's well for their asset. With our sliding sleeves, which can be reclosed over the life of that well, if we do see that breakthrough, we can go in and shut the sleeves for just a small section of that well, shut off that water breakthrough.
Again, in different completion applications, whether it be plug and perf or a different type of sleeve completion, typically you do not have that life of well flexibility. The sleeve will last as long as the well is producing.
The question around, are we selling more over time? I think the answer there is uncategorically yes. When we first introduced our sliding sleeve technology, we introduced it in the Canadian Bakken Formation. It is an area in Southern Saskatchewan.
In those wells, we would typically supply somewhere between 20 and 30 sleeves in a customer's well. Over time, as we've developed the technology, made it more robust, and that's both the sleeve and the service tool, we've been able to deploy the sleeves into your traditional high-intensity completions. I mentioned the one in the Montney.
We went from a starting point of, call it 20-30 sleeves per well, whereas now leading edge, a customer might be running 250-300 sleeves in a well. That has taken a lot of development effort around the technology over time. It has taken a lot of learnings from our service team. I think we've got a great competitive moat, especially in that really high-intensity work. We have definitely seen customers deploying more sleeves per well over time.
Some of that has to do with the longer laterals. Some of it has to do with taking the way they design the well and putting the entry points closer together. That is definitely been a trend that we've seen and that we've taken advantage of.
Probably last question due to time. What other geographic markets can you grow to? Does it make more sense to build up Canada first?
Yeah, the core markets for us, as I mentioned earlier, U.S., Canada, we've got a presence in Argentina, the North Sea, and the Middle East. I think with that, we've got a lot of good growth runway in those markets. The offshore development is certainly one that could take place in the U.S. and the Gulf of Mexico, but could take place in other markets around the world as well.
We've made some inroads in the Canadian market. Traditionally, we've worked with more what I'd call your traditional oil and gas producer. There's a large market in Canada around heavy oil. For us, there's a submarket within Canada called SAGD, Steam Assisted Gravity Drainage, which really requires a lot of the flow control capabilities that we provide through our fracturing systems technology.
I think that can be the next leg for us in Canada is moving from traditional oil and gas and really participating more in the SAGD market in Canada. I think we've got a lot of runway in the markets we're in today, and we don't need to necessarily push into a new geography, whether that be kind of Southeast Asia or Brazil at this point. I think we'll push through with what we have.
If there is a specific opportunity in one of those markets, we'll look at it and we'll potentially make an investment to participate in that market over time. I feel really good about the runway we have in the markets we're participating in today.
Your fracturing systems tech, are there any issues with this in other markets?
There aren't necessarily issues with it in other markets. There are markets that have preferred methodologies. The preferred methodology in the U.S. primarily is what you call plug- and- perf, which is part of why we made the investment in Repeat Precision.
We have that product line that has composite plugs and perforating guns. The U.S. industry is really centered around that as the primary completion methodology. We do have certain geographic areas where we do a fair amount of fracturing systems work in the U.S.
We have taken that fracturing systems business. That is really what we have led with in the North Sea. You do run into, in certain areas, customers that will want to utilize different deployment methodologies. We will typically run our service tool for fracturing systems on coiled tubing.
Part of what we were able to accomplish last year in the North Sea was running our service tool on jointed pipe, which helped to expand the customer opportunity there.
If coiled tubing is in short supply, we do have other ways in which we can enable the customer to utilize our fracturing systems technology. There is not so much a limitation around it, but there are certainly preferences in certain markets. The Canadian market is a big adopter of fracturing systems. The North Sea is increasingly so, certain areas in the U.S.
There are markets that have really tried to optimize around plug- and- perf and other completions. We just try to support the customer the best we can with the appropriate product line that we have.
Last question, Tracer Diagnostics. Is this a repeat service provided to customers? How does the cost vary from start to finish?
Yeah. It is a bit of a mix. There are certain services within Tracer Diagnostics that you would think of as a repeat service where a customer might use it on every well.
In those, typically the customer will deploy the tracer at what we call the toe of the well, so the point that is farthest away from where you started drilling. What they are really looking for there is a very qualitative answer when they are taking the samples.
They just want to know, am I seeing that tracer in the production or not? They are using that to identify whether that stage at the furthest section out, whether that is producing or not. There may be some reasons that that toe would not produce. You may have a blockage in the wellbore. Sand may have flowed back into the well.
That really helps the customer diagnose, do I need to go in and do a clean out, do something operationally? If I have drilled a four-mile lateral, and I know the toe will produce a little bit later versus some of the other parts of the well, sort of the heel section and middle sections, maybe they are trying to see the timing of when that toe starts to produce and contribute.
That is something, again, that can be done on a repeatable basis.
That's a relatively low-cost service for us because we're deploying a relatively small amount of chemical. It's a pretty simple test for us to run through the laboratory. On the other side, you've got your more complex studies where you may be using almost every chemical tracer in our portfolio and deploying them across a three or four-well pad.
You're taking the samples from the wells that you deployed the tracer in and then all of the offsets. What you're really trying to do is to assess the flow and the interaction and interconnectivity of the fracture network that you've created down hole.
That's a type of study where you're taking a lot of samples. The reporting is very detailed. Typically, the customer will be doing some other diagnostics alongside tracer, so there's a little bit of a correlation exercise as well.
We're seeing the data that we have from Tracer together with some other service companies that may have done a different diagnostic and making sure that the customer's getting as clear of a picture that they can with respect to the study. That is something that's done on more of a periodic basis. A customer may do that if they've made a significant change to their completion program, or maybe they just acquired another company.
The assets are new to them. They're trying to learn more about it. Those bigger studies are more periodic and tend to come when a customer is seeing change in their operations, again, either within their existing well portfolio that they might move into or around an acquisition, or if they're making a meaningful change to a completion design. Those are bigger ticket studies.
Those will be used on maybe 5%-10% of the wells that are out there with trace in that way, whereas the toe tracing for what we call flow assurance, that's something that could be done on every well.
All right. Ryan, thank you for this thorough presentation. We've really enjoyed it. We hope to see you on our conference again real soon.
Looking forward to it. Yeah, thanks again, Anna. Appreciate the discussion and look forward to sharing future updates later in the year.
Perfect. Thanks so much, everyone. We'll be right back.