Thanks already for coming back. For the next session, we're very happy to have Polestar, a pure-play EV manufacturer that went public via a SPAC merger in 2022. It's focused on the premium luxury segment, all EVs. Has some very, you know, interesting product. We've gotten the benefit of riding in them. Unfortunately, we haven't gotten to drive them because of some regulatory issues here in the U.S., but we would love to. Polestar 2 is one we actually have driven, and that's actually a great car. As an asset-light business model, sells into North America, Europe, Asia, and other markets. It's a really interesting story, and I think some of the cars are, you know, like I said, fun to ride in, great to drive, and beautiful, you know, in many respects.
Today we're very happy to have, from Polestar, Thomas Ingenlath, the company's CEO, who made a long journey here. So, Thomas, thank you for coming, as well as Per Ansgar, Chief Financial Officer, also a long journey, but a little bit less complicated.
Mm-hmm.
We appreciate you making it as well. Thank you guys for coming.
Thank you.
So as we think about Polestar, just from a top-down perspective, you know, how do you think about sort of the evolution of the global EV market, and then really, you know, how Polestar fits into that, and drives the business, you know, going forward?
Well, now the EV market is... it's a little bit split. There's our clientele, our customers, which are simply are interested in the most exciting, the tech-advanced, attractive product. They are out for the latest and greatest, and that's a, I would say, stable market. It's not an easy market. It's a very demanding and challenging market, and you have to have, you know, good damn products out there. But, of course, it's, it's a different topic than now the question may of, okay, how weak or how strong or not strong is the EV development now. For us, that's less of a question. For us, it's much more to be convincing to this, really demanding, premium customers.
If you were to think about that, does that segment of the market, whether it be EV or luxury, as you're targeting it and you're looking at it, you know, how much of that the market do you think is, you know, in that layer that you're focused on? Is it 10%, 11%, or is it you know, I mean, how do you think about the core customer, the core customer base that you're going after? Is it BMW, Mercedes in, you know, type of, you know, consumers?
Yeah, but it's even more sophisticated than that. I mean, we, we have to be really targeted, and I mean, there are, of course, a big, big overlap of customers that today have bought the expensive Teslas when they were still premium, the S and the X, a nd of course, Porsche customers. There, we have a big customer group from Mercedes with the Polestar 2 today already. But, of course, there are as well very, very conservative and traditional Mercedes customers who we might not reach. It's for them, not anymore the question if it's an EV or not. We, we don't make that difference. When we go out and we position our car, we have a complete mixed bag a nd if the product is convincing, our customers don't mind if it is EV or combustion engine. It's about being the latest and greatest.
And one thing we are totally convinced about, I mean, electrification, it is the better, more fun to drive, and that is when we are out in the premium. Performance cars being electric is almost a must because the electric drivetrain is that much more convincing when you do it as an electric car. Imagine the Polestar 3, which will be it tomorrow on the show. It's a true SUV. You have a high seating position. You have that kind of, you know, overview that SUV drivers like b ut the center of gravity of that car, where the mass of the car is, is as ground-hugging low as it was with our first Polestar 1, which was a hybrid model, which still had a big ICE train-
Yeah.
... Lump of metal in the front, and that was a really low sports car so y ou achieve with even a high SUV with an electrified drivetrain that much of a better driving dynamics.
I f you were to think about the direct competition, I mean, would you think about, like, the Porsche Cayenne or I mean, as far as.
For Polestar 3, it's that Porsche Cayenne, X5, Q7 segment. The car is from its luxurious technology with the NVIDIA computing, with the air suspension stuff, it is, of course, very luxuriously equipped to compete with those cars. It's very different to the Polestar 4, our second SUV, which comes a bit more with, I call it now, mainstream technology. There we use a Mobileye ADAS system instead of the Volvo Group developed-
Yeah.
... autonomous drive system. That car is then in the segment of a BMW X3, a Macan. So anything around $60,000-$70,000.
All right. Can you talk a little bit about kind of your go-to-market strategy as it stands now and how you're thinking about that evolving? I mean, we've seen EV manufacturers take different approaches, like the direct consumer approach. Some are partnering with dealers. You know, what's kind of your approach to the market and how you think about that?
That has, I think, nicely evolved. On one end, we are, I would say, now pretty undogmatic about what principle it has to be. We have a direct sales model in Europe, but we, from day one, did not say, "Oh, we have to do everything ourselves." We partnered up with basically Volvo dealers who wanted to invest into a Polestar Space, which in the beginning was too hands-off, I would say, from today's perspective. We want them now to engage more into the sales journey and, for that reason, changed to a non-genuine agent model, which gives them more interaction opportunity. In the U.S., it was very clear, we do it through wholesale model, and we embrace it now even more because it is working successfully here a nd we want to scale up now this year.
Of course, for that reason, it's a nice way of doing it. China is a very different aspect for us because in China, we actually joined now a joint venture with a mobile device company and we do a very different system now there in order to just simply acknowledge that the China market doesn't work anymore as it did in the old days for the OEMs.
I think it's also important to add to what Thomas said. It's like this year's going to be very exciting for Polestar because we will go from being a one-car company to a three-car company, adding the Polestar 3 and Polestar 4 to our lineup. That will, of course, increase gradually over the year here from the end of second quarter into third quarter, fourth quarter. That also gives the opportunity for more of our partners to actually expand the footprint geographically. So when having three cars, you can actually have more sales points out there. So we are not only adding volume by adding cars. We are also adding it by more sales points and more partners into the that's very targeted work during this year.
So in the U.S., you're basically in the wholesale model. You're saying you're largely embracing the dealer model as supposedly going direct to consumer. Why have you decided to go that route? I mean, like, dealers do a pretty good job for a lot of brands that they cover. So, I mean, you know, it's intriguing, but some folks have decided to go direct to consumer. You know, and two, how many of them have you signed up and are ready to go? Is it mostly Volvo co-branding, you know, in order to sort of a geographic sort of concentrations, like in California and the Northeast and Southeast? Or, I mean, how has that approach worked?
Yeah, just doing, California was maybe in the very early days' idea. We saw that in the U.S., pretty scattered, but a lot, a lot of dots popping up where EV sales actually became attractive a nd we, I don't know, 30 spaces that we have by now here in the U.S., and that will definitely grow, over 24 now with a bigger range. It's a question of how much do you actually I mean, what qualification do you search for? And, of course, there is a lot of customer interaction where the customer is happy to have a partner live and in front of them and somebody dealing with them in a positive way.
What we have to and what we want to avoid is, of course, that those dealers amongst each other start fighting each other and competing with each other, and by that, ruining actually your margins and the price. And that is where we just simply have a very careful approach on how many dealers we're going to engage. And that's why, like Per just said, it has to grow meaningful over volume and that's what premium brand means, that you always, in a way, under-deliver on the demand. You cannot just simply scale, scale, scale, and at some point, have to push cars into the market.
When you guys design and engineer the vehicle, you know, and go to the market with branding, at the Polestar Day out in California, it was interesting that you were kind of co-branding with some of that technology, meaning, I think, like, Luminar was, you know, LiDAR was on the, you know, the bumper and, you know, had a, you know, well, done well in a, you know, tasteful way, but, like, you know, had an actual branding on the car.
You know, as you look at sort of some of these tech partners, you know, how do you think about sort of this co-branding and bringing them to the forefront where most other companies kind of hide them and say, "No, listen, this is a hard technology," you're willing to have your tech partners get out there and be part of the process in the branding? It's an interesting differentiation.
That's where I've very much—I mean, it goes from our business model, where we always said it's, you know, the best of both worlds kind of asset-light model, to how we actually build the brand. And the modern brand is not about doing everything yourself. It's the whole idea about—it's not just all suppliers. It's actually partners who you develop together with, where you kind of co-create something amazing. And it's as well not about inventing everything yourself. Then some of the biggest inventions have been just putting two things that existed already together in a new, meaningful way a nd that's very much what we do. We bring things together and know how to make that really tasteful mix. It's very much like a chef in a kitchen.
It's not about you inventing your own ingredients, your own vegetable. It's about what you make out of it and what you find there. And to put them and being that outspoken about the great partners that you work with, you see that in fashion and everywhere happening, all this labels that work together. It's actually something which customers really appreciate if you have that honest approach and that kind of very modern idea about what creativeness means.
So in the actual development process of the vehicle, that sounds like some of these partners may be bringing their best technology to you to partner with you in the forefront where other folks, where they're being, you know, beat up on pricing and pushed back and not being able to co-brand might not bring their best technology to the forefront. Are you finding that the partnership is actually bringing getting you sort of a top-of-funnel, best product coming to you, and you're working with those folks at this point, and they're getting your main product?
About some of these folks that have great inventions, they need companies like us that actually help them to get to a ready product, a product that goes into production. I mean, there's one example. It's about Bcomp, a company that is doing out of flax material, natural-grown fibers, something which is a bit similar, like, carbon fiber, but, of course, with much better ecological credentials. Now, to that technology, yeah, they did it and stuff, but to make that now into a scalable, automotive-grade product that survives all the tests, that survives all the long-term testing, it would be very difficult for them to do that on their own. To do that together with us, A, we have it first in our product in our car, but we have as well developed IP as well for the benefit of Polestar, together with them that we carry together.
So there's definitely, as well, it's not just picking something. It's about developing it together into something meaningful for a consumer. Very similar with, for example, Luminar, of course, they're the first implementation of the LiDAR is one thing, but then to work with us together and to get actually an input from a designer from company, what would we expect this technology to develop into for us to make it even more better integrated, more beautiful in a car? That's something which gives the value then back to our partners.
So just quickly on that, actually, like, while you're talking about Luminar, could you just talk about because, I mean, you know, the Polestar 3 is going to be the second vehicle to come out, you know, with the Luminar in it actually, right after the Volvo EX90. What testing have you done, like, behind the scenes on that? How is that testing going? You know, and you know, how are you kind of thinking, especially from a consumer-facing viewpoint, like, the value this brings to the car?
Well, I'm very convinced that it will be the one big breakthrough for all this, you know, years that we have been waiting for, autonomous drive when unsupervised highway piloting will be accessible. So yes, the LiDAR, of course, will support certain safety functions on top of what safety we have today, but the big, big breakthrough will be for the customer to experience unsupervised highway piloting. It's the one most boring and annoying travel that you do in your car when you're on that highway in a congested kind of annoying stop-and-go kind of situation, and you don't have any interesting landscape, whatever. Yes, that will be amazing when you can switch off and do an unsupervised stretch. And that's what that technology will enable. We are very convinced that the LiDAR technology is needed for that step.
Actually, the amount of experts that believe the same thing is growing months after months that the LiDAR technology will be needed for unsupervised piloting. Of course, that's the exciting journey that we have together ahead. Of course, I mean, let's face it, it's very much, of course, the achievement and the drive that Volvo brings there into, into our portfolio.
Will that Luminar be available in North America anytime soon? What's the plan around that?
Well, the idea is, of course, that in California is one of, well, if not the first place where we will certify it and run it.
Okay. Do you want to ask about Hertz? I mean, it might be interesting.
Or maybe not.
Yeah, or maybe. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a, you know, reality. I mean, the reality is when you talk about the brand positioning, right, and the way that you're trying to position the brand, you know, it is interesting. I mean, for lack of better term, butts in seats is also very convincing when you have a very good product. So sometimes when it's a new product, you know, a rental car fleet to get butts in seats to get people, you know, in the vehicle is not necessarily a bad idea.
But given your brand positioning, and the way you're trying to, you know, get set in the market, you know, going with Hertz, you know, is maybe, you know, not necessarily exactly consistent with that brand strategy. It's kind of a step.
John, that's.
It's a little bit of a step down. So, there's different perspectives.
But you can look at it from different ways. For us, it's indeed for brand awareness to start, it's a good thing to people actually get to know the brand.
Got it.
And then on the other hand, you know, I grew up in a country where Mercedes-Benz is the taxi, the car that people use, and you would have easily said, "Come on, for a premium brand like Mercedes, why would they have that fleet of ordinary taxis running around?" It never harmed them. I think the product has to live up to it. And, of course, the service has to live up to it as well. And there we felt we are in good hands with Hertz a nd the deal was a good one. And, fine, we, I mean, we are not dependent on the Hertz business. I mean, this is something it's nice that it was there, and it is there, and the contract is up and running.
We agreed on 2024 being a year where we take it slow and pause. There was and there's no big drama with it. It's, I would say now, it's an ordinary business relationship which comes and goes.
But if you were to think about that, I mean, you know, and John has now launched coverage on Hertz. We've had conversations with them. You know, I mean, it sounds like the way that the vehicles are operated, particularly in sort of a rental car fleet, it does not necessarily lend itself to any EVs, right? Just in the way that consumer is unfamiliar with the driving dynamics of the vehicle, the acceleration, the braking, you know, accident.
You know, I mean, it just it's the kind of thing where as you think about the lessons that you're learning from the breakdown of that, I'm just curious, as you go out and you're selling to customers, is there almost a vetting process of sort of brand ambassadors, people that are familiar with it or, you know, with the product and the powertrain where, as you're trying to build this brand, instead of butts in seats, you're getting in front of the influencers and the folks that do understand how the vehicles and can really enjoy them and use them correctly, you know, how are you going through that selection process, or are you?
Because Hertz is arguably, I mean, you know, I mean, Hertz is not necessarily the best place for any EVs at the moment because consumers are just not that familiar with them.
I think two things come into play here which, okay, might be a discovery. On one hand, indeed, I mean, the performance of such a car is overwhelming. And if you push the pedal, that car, you know, goes like stink. So fair enough, that's something which is to be considered. The other thing is living with an EV, it is something which you need to get used to it. And how to charge a car, how you actually drive this car, when do you start thinking about recharging a car and stuff, it changes a lot once you get experience with the car a nd that is something which, okay, that you don't do in just one rental circuit, that you should, I mean, there are experienced cars who just want to rent an EV because they're used to it and they want it.
Fair enough, I think that is something which is a very natural demand. For the first try, "Oh, I'm going to just try an EV," maybe it's a little bit, something where you need more guidance.
Got it. But I mean, as you're going out and you're selling to customers, is there a vetting process for those customers to understand that they will be the folks that will be accepting of some of these changes and then also the great performance that comes with it with the vehicle? Meaning that, you know, in an individual customer basis with these dealers, are they vetting the customers so they understand what they're getting into and the product that they're getting so that there's not sort of this negative, you know, feedback loop that came from Hertz or Hertz, you know, did not operate the vehicles well. Let's put it that way. I mean, they didn't understand what they were doing.
I don't know. There was certainly the idea of a good onboarding, and probably I will not say that it has not been done. It's just a question of how much can you do that in that short time that you have that customer in front of you. As I said, it's something as well from psychology. I mean, let's face it, for example, after, you know, driving these cars now for two, three, four years, I mean, I have no problem to go, you know, close to a discharge of even 5%-4% because that doesn't worry me yet. I know exactly I will make it to that next point a nd that's something which requires a bit of experience and stuff.
Having said that, I would think there are many, many reasons why this thing now came up, and it's beyond just the electrification question.
Yeah. I guess, you know, next just on the product pipeline a bit. So you had the Polestar 1 which, you know, you've now since moved on, moved on from. You had the Polestar 2 which was really the first, like, EV. You have the 3 and the 4 coming out, then ultimately the 5. How are you thinking about, you know, the product pipeline as you get beyond the 5 and beyond the 6? And then also, you know, just the product refresh cycle, I mean, are you expecting that longer term, you're going to keep these on the market, I don't know, six, seven years and kind of cycle it like, you know, the ICE vehicles have been cycled?
Or do you think you're going to keep them on the market, especially leveraging the technology and the improvements that can do to the car over time such that you, you know, maybe you extend years, something like that?
Let's see. I mean, over the years, it's definitely have changed big times how the car ages. It's amazing to see how quickly you, as a consumer, start to get used to that you expect your car not just staying on the same level, but actually with over the years, it's becoming refreshed and refreshed again and how suddenly it becomes, like, annoying. "Hey, there was not an update." I mean, that's definitely something that had changed the landscape. But there are very clearly hardware borders of where a car just simply is not upgradable anymore and where you just simply naturally start thinking about that replacement because you just have to plan for that next product. So I don't think that the cycle now necessarily of, you know, how long you keep a car in production will change because of that.
Our range now gets really finally that kind of edge that we were after with Polestar 3 and the 4 and the 5. It gets that type of really great technology positioned and premium products. We will start at some point, of course, thinking about a succession, but we will not think about it the way that you would do, just, you know, that next generation, two, three, four of product XY. And that's why, for example, our nomenclature doesn't intend to. We will never do that Polestar 2 again because if there would be the next generation, it would be then called Polestar 7 or 8 or whatever it's then because we want to keep that mindset of not just simply repeating the same recipe, but thinking, "Okay, is that conceptual relevant? Do we evolve it? Will it be maybe a complete different answer to that customer group?"
So we want to be a little bit more responsive to how trends in society and technology develop. I mean, we have so many great ideas. At the moment, you see, I'm rather challenged by Per and other people to not think now too far ahead and stuff. We really I mean, for us, it's so important the next two years to get now the Polestar 3 and 4 up and running, to finish what we have now quite far driven with Polestar 5 already. It's now the final year of the prototype loops a nd the factory is ready then to go for in 2025 to produce this car. For us, these are very, very crucial steps. Follow up, I mean, there is in t he company.
A lot of questions, you know, are coming from and we have been far too long used to think about the future. Now it's time for us to think about the here and now and to make that happen. It's such a crucial time for us to get now from a company that's been investing, investing for all these five, six, seven years. And now it's really the time to turn it around, make that, that product portfolio live, and bring the company into a profitable status. I mean, we are that, that close to it. It's really this couple of quarters where the company will turn around. And for us, it's really essential. Everything else afterwards will be, you know, that will be so easy to think about the next cars coming. I mean, that's the cherry on the cake.
We really have to now get the company into that nice, sweet spot of turning profitable, reaching a cash flow break even in 2025, and in a way, proving to everybody that our share price is totally undervalued.
I think also adding to this is, it's, as Thomas said, no urgency. We have now 3, 4 cars coming out very short term here which is going to make our business completely different in a year's time from now. Then also, we have a good knowledge now how to cooperate. We're cooperating with Volvo on different cars and platforms. We'll be cooperating with Geely on the Polestar 4, etc. So we have the luxury now to kind of like pick and choose between European quality technology and Asian fast technology, etc. So I think we're in a position where we can really be quick and take decisions in a good way when needed.
And now, just quickly, while we're kind of talking about financials a little bit here, I think it was in the third quarter of last year maybe is when you provided that guidance, or maybe it was the second quarter last year when you provided that guidance about getting to, you know, break even in 2025. You know, has anything changed since then? I mean, it does seem like the EV landscape has maybe slowed a little bit. You know, how does that impact things? And is there anything else maybe that we should be mindful of?
No, I think the good thing is that we have secured a significant loan here, almost $1 billion, 1.5 months ago, which basically, as Thomas said, it's like we have very little need of extra funding now to get to a cash flow break even. We have a couple of hundred million more that we are anticipating. And we are also then working very hard with cash management, inventory management, looking through our investments to really give us flexibility when we really need those money. So no, nothing has changed. And some people are talking about slowdown in the EV market and so on. And as Thomas said, we, we don't really see us as an EV market. We see us as a premium brand market.
And also, which is quite important to compare us with some of our competitors, is that we have a sales footprint in North America, Europe, and Asia, which means that sometimes when it slows down, for example, in the U.S., it may be different in different other markets. So we can maneuver between the more global sales footprint, which I think some of our competitors cannot do in such a good way that we can do.
Okay. Thank you.
What is your ultimate buying targets? I mean, I think when we talk to you know certain companies, like Lucid or Rivian, that are different in many, many ways than yours, you know, there has been sort of historical views of being one of the large global manufacturers. Lucid has been a little bit more vague and wanted to constrain its buying to some degree. You know, I think you're correct. I mean, like, I think the strategy is a good one of limiting you know where you're ultimately going and remaining a sort of a luxury branded you know set of vehicles. I mean, what does what does that mean? Does that mean a hundred, 200, 300,000?
I mean, what do you think that the volume target is ultimately to drive the scale that you need to reinvest in the business and keep the product churning over time? And you should do a lot more of the Polestar 5s because the Polestar 5 is, no offense to the, you know, the 2, 3, and 4. It's actually a very beautiful vehicle. The other ones are actually good-looking too. The 5 is amazing. So get that out, please.
Well, it's about this magic recipe. You know that, John, there was a moment in time in the beginning of Polestar when we thought about just building cars on top of, you know, whatever there's in the Volvo range. It was clear it would have been that super premium company which, in a way, would be from day one in danger of never, ever turning profitable.
Yeah.
So it was, that's not possible. We needed to find that mixture of having the ability to have a certain volume and base to stand on. That is what a Polestar 3 and 4 will do for us, of course. Then these peak products that give that brand equity and that dream and we had to invest into it. As much as we can build on, you know, the tech that we find with Volvo and Geely for Polestar 3 and 4, the Polestar 5 needed to have that investment into this aluminum-bonded sports car chassis because, I mean, at some point, you have to prove a point that you're that much different.
Yeah, I mean, we know that we need that 150,000 volume in order to be, you know, on a financially stable, good ground to reach these margins. But then again, of course, at some point, we want to reach 200,000. At some point, maybe we want to reach 300,000 volume. But this would be all meaningless if we would jeopardize that type of brand equity and that premium in-demand position. It would be meaningless to go to 300,000 if we, for example, ruin the double-digit high-teens margin ambition that we have. It's much more important for us to reach that and maintain that than go overboard with the volume.
So 150, is kind of the target sort of run rate, and then you can grow from there. But at 150, you believe, given your current setup with your partners, that you can do mid-teens margins?
Yeah. We set for 2025, 155-ish + or 150, it's the same. And then, high teens margins a nd that should be a stable business from that point. And then, of course, back to Thomas, that it then depends on how quickly we want to add more investments to it. But that should be a sustainable level with the car line we have and then gradually replacing it.
Okay. That would be the 3 and the 4 as the bulk of it. 5 wouldn't be in 2025, wouldn't be in 2025.
That would be tail end.
Tail end. So, what would the average price points on the 3 and the 4 if you were to think about 2025 to get to that break-even, number of cars?
Yeah. We talk about Polestar 2 simplified, $50,000, Polestar 4, $60,000, Polestar 3, $75,000 and upwards a nd then you can for example, the Polestar 3, you can go up to $110,000-$120,000. So that's about the range that we're looking for. Of course, the average sales price will be higher than the entry level.
Yeah. Yeah. That's, yeah. Yeah. So those are the starting prices. Yeah. Got it.
Oh, I mean, should we give the audience?
Yeah. I mean, does anybody in the audience have a question to have? If not, Yeah. I mean, I guess, you know, now that you've, you know, had you know, gotten the media to, you know, get to test drive like a 3 and the 4, and I'm just kind of curious. I mean, what's the initial reaction been to those test drives, and what are people saying about the cars, you know, what improvements do you need to make?
No, that puts a big smile on my face because we had, last week, the first press results coming out from our Polestar 4 VIP test drive that we did on our proving ground. And it was really, really nice to see how the journalists really cherished and embraced what the car can offer. And that, I say now again, convinced how you know what we always talk about is, yes, of course, we build on certain technology, but what the art that we can do is to tune this stuff to something which is amazing to drive and gives you that really great feedback. And all the journalists were blown away how much these cars indeed become Polestars. And, you know, whatever tech base there is, it's an amazing driver-oriented and rewarding, predictable drive.
It's very engaging and just an incredible quality feel to it. We had the Polestar 3 up in the Arctic Circle for a bit broader group now to test them on an ice track and t he ice track is very good because even untrained people very quickly can experience what you really would only experience otherwise on a dry road when you're in really high speed and when it gets really dangerous in terms of, you know, shit happens. So on the ice, you can do all of that in a much slower speed, and you can see, wow, how good or not so good a chassis is capable of giving you kind of the feeling of great controllability. It's so mind-blowing to see how cars are done differently.
All the cars have ESP, and some of them just shut off, and you just slow down, and basically, the car doesn't drive anymore in a bit more challenging situation. If you're really good in tuning it, your car still moves and stuff. All of that is very relevant for day-to-day drive in terms of if you are that convincing premium. This is how company like, you know, BMW, Porsche got where they are because they're really, really perfect in tuning this instrument. I mean, everybody can build a piano, but some of them, you know, play bad or good. I mean, to make that instrument, to build a Stradivarius, you need really that knowledge of how to make that instrument perfect. That's not just a computer on wheels.
We have high tech in our hands. Sure, it is a computer, but it's not just a computer on wheels. It's a physically moving, highly emotional thing. And everybody buying that thing makes a big, big statement about their own personality and about what they would like people to think about them. So that's building a brand that is more than just a piece of technology on wheels. And that's what these tests show nicely, how Polestar actually is a brand that can deliver on these things.
We're very sad that we could not make that trip. We got the invite but couldn't make it. So we're very sad that we didn't get the experience of that. But I guess, you know, in riding in the vehicles and driving the two, we kind of get that. Back to the, you know, the idea of button seats and the convincing and the building of the brand, you know, absent being able to get people to those winter test drives, you know, how do you get that across to folks with a new brand and a new vehicle? Do you, I mean, is there a lot of direct marketing and test drives that you can do more locally so people can understand what you're bringing to the table?
No, we scale that.
Because your asking volume seems reasonable, I mean. It's not like, you know, you're not talking about 10 million units. You're talking about a couple hundred thousand units maybe over time.
No, it's really about getting that wave going. And people,
Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, our best advertisement is people talking about the brand. And we have now, in that type of event we did last year, we actually have a very active and positive Facebook community. Customers, Polestar 2 owners, we have that already for Polestar 3 and 4, despite the fact that people don't own the car. They have actually grouped themselves already in these communities. And in the individual countries, we give those communities the opportunity to organize such an event where our test drivers, our stars come take, they bring a prototype. The customers take their cars, and they do an event where you actually get that experience. How much, I mean, it's one thing is about experiencing the product.
The other thing is about building these communities and building that passion and desire for the brand. That's what surprisingly, for example, here in the U.S., despite the fact that a lot of people say, "Oh, but your brand is not that visible here," I actually get the most interaction on our social media accounts from U.S. customers. I mean, it's sometimes not about the mass of people. It's about the passion and the conviction about the individual that is there, which will actually drive the success.
Well, on that note, we're out of time. But, with that passion and the vehicles, it's, you know, a very interesting story. So we appreciate you guys taking the time, making the long, difficult trip. We apologize for any issues along the way that we, you know, our government caused as far as you get in. But thank you very much for coming. We really, really appreciate it.
Thanks a lot for having us.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Very appreciated.
Thank you.