Simon Property Group, Inc. (SPG)
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Earnings Call: Q1 2012

Apr 27, 2012

Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the first quarter 2012 Simon Property Group earnings conference call. My name is Derek, and I'll be your operator for today. At this time, all participants are on a listen-only mode. We will facilitate a question-and-answer session towards the end of the conference. If at any time you require operator assistance, please press star zero and an operator will be happy to assist you. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded for replay purposes. I would now like to turn the conference over to Ms. Shelly Doran, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please proceed.

Shelly Doran
VP of Investor Relations, Simon Property Group

Good morning, and welcome to Simon Property Group's first quarter 2012 earnings conference call. Please be aware that statements made during this call may be deemed forward-looking statements, and actual results may differ materially from those indicated by forward-looking statements due to a variety of risks, uncertainties, and other factors. Please refer to our filings with the SEC for a detailed discussion. Acknowledging the fact that this call may be webcast for some time to come, we believe it is important to note that our call includes time-sensitive information that may be accurate only as of today's date, April 27th, 2012. During today's call, we will discuss certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures are included within the earnings release or the company's supplemental information package that was included in this morning's Form 8-K.

This package is also available on the Simon website in the Investors section. Participating in today's call will be David Simon, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Rick Sokolov, President and Chief Operating Officer, and Steve Sterrett, Chief Financial Officer. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Simon.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Good morning. Thank you for joining us today. The scope and breadth of our company can be best described by a high-level overview of our activities and accomplishments during the first few months of 2012. First of all, financial and operationally, let me just state that FFO was $1.82 per share, up 13% from the first quarter of 2011. We exceeded First Call consensus by $0.14. We have now met or exceeded expectations for 31 of the past 33 quarters. For our malls and premium outlets, comp NOI grew 5.7%, and you'll recall that our comp NOI for first quarter 2011 was up 2.3%. Tenant sales were up 11.2%. Both individually, the malls and the outlet portfolio were up double digits. Occupancy was up 60 bips, 60 basis points. Average rent per square foot was increased by 4.4%.

Releasing spread was a positive 9.7% or $4.74 per square foot. Let me turn to transactions. As you know, we invested $2 billion in purchasing shares of Klépierre, the second largest owner of retail real estate in continental Europe, with assets valued at a portfolio of €16.2 billion. We now own nearly 29% of the company. I'm chairman of the supervisory board, and we control three of the nine board seats. Our investment provides opportunity for significant value creation through exchanging operational best practices, creating synergy through our leasing and marketing efforts, and the generation of ancillary revenues. We will be actively involved in the Klépierre capital allocation decisions, including allocation of capital amongst the various assets and the countries in which they do business. We will be providing guidance on investment and divestiture decisions and balance sheet management. We view this investment as having significant opportunity point of view.

It essentially replaces our previous European investments, which were liquidated at a significant gain to our shareholders over the past couple of years. Let me turn to Mills. As you know, we acquired the interest of our joint venture partner in 26 of 36 assets of The Mills Limited Partnership for $1.5 billion. A transaction completed at a good cap rate for us and reinforced that this has been a good deal for us and our partner, Farallon. We believe there is upside in the assets with growing NOI. We will continue to pursue many of the redevelopment opportunities in the portfolio. At the end of the day, both of these transactions will be immediately accretive to FFO. To fund Klépierre and Mills transaction, we sold unsecured notes and issued common equity. We sold $1.75 billion of senior unsecured notes in three tranches.

Rates on the three tranches of notes were the lowest ever achieved by a REIT by an average of 76 basis points. We issued 9.1 million common shares at a price of $137 per share, and our rating of A minus A.3 were affirmed by all three rating agencies. We weren't done with that. We acquired another 25% ownership interest in Del Amo Fashion Center, where a major redevelopment is in the planning stage. We sold our interest in Gallerie Commerciali Italia at a gain to our investment. Development activity, if I may turn to, we successfully reopened the fully restored Opry Mills to a great public reception. Space at the center is approximately 90% leased and committed.

We started construction on four new premium outlet centers, all scheduled to open in 2013, Shisui in Japan, our ninth premium outlet in Japan, Phoenix, serving the greater Phoenix and Scottsdale areas, Toronto, which actually the groundbreaking was this week, our first upscale outlet center in Canada, and Busan in Korea, our third premium outlet in Korea. We signed agreements to develop premium outlet centers in Brazil with the well-known and well-respected BR Malls and in China with the well-known and well-respected Bailian Group. We are focused on a site adjacent to Disney Shanghai. Continued construction on two new premium outlets that will open in the U.S. this year, Merrimack, New Hampshire, and south of Houston, Texas. We continued construction on 25 renovation and expansion projects in the U.S. and in Japan with 2012 and 2013 completion dates.

We continue to expect our share of development spend to approximate $1 billion in 2012, 2013, and 2014, respectively. Let me turn to the dividends. As you now know, we've announced our third consecutive increase in quarterly dividend from $0.95 to $1.00 per share. Our dividend is now fully 25% higher than it was one year ago at this time. In addition, we are very pleased and honored to be added to the S&P 100 index in the first quarter, joining the likes of Nike, Starbucks, Honeywell, and DuPont, all well-known companies where equity market caps are comparable to ours. Guidance. We increased the top end of our 2012 FFO guidance. Initially, as you know, in February, we had guidance of $7.20 to $7.30.

Our range now includes a range from $7.50 per share to $7.60 per share. We increased both the top end and the bottom end of our guidance. Factors contributing to this increase: essentially stronger operating performance and recent investment activity. Let me just conclude. We can talk about any questions you may have. Our portfolio of high-quality, irreplaceable assets continues to deliver strong results and is second to none in our industry. Just to illustrate that, I know the size sometimes of our portfolio is somewhat overwhelming, and all of our activity obviously is hard to appreciate sometimes, but let me just put this in perspective. We have in our portfolio of assets 12 that generate over $1,000 per square foot. Our top 30 U.S. assets average over $1,000 per square foot in sales and provide one-third of our SPG NOI. Our top 50 U.S.

average $886 per square foot in sales and provide one-half of our SPG share of NOI. Importantly, our top 100 assets average $700 per square foot and provide three-quarters of our NOI. Needless to say, we're off to a good start and active. We're ready for your questions.

Operator

At this time, ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone's keypad. If you feel your question has been answered or you'd like to withdraw your question, press star 2. Questions will be taken in the order received. Our first question is coming from the line of Christy McElroy from UBS. Please proceed.

Christy McElroy
Analyst, UBS

Hi. Good morning, guys.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Hi.

Christy McElroy
Analyst, UBS

Given GGP's recent deal with Sears to buy back some boxes and leases, I'm wondering if you're having any discussions with the retailer to do the same. Of the 119 Sears boxes at your malls, are there any that you would specifically point to where you would say we could unlock pretty significant value at that mall if we got the box back?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, look, we're not going to get into discussions that we have with our individual retailers. We have a good relationship with Sears. We expect over time for a number of those properties to be reclaimed or redeveloped, but nothing really to report beyond that. Look, we do think there's value there. We'll be conservative in how we value the real estate and how we look at it. I think over time, it will provide an opportunity for the company.

Christy McElroy
Analyst, UBS

We've heard recently from some specialty retailers that lease negotiations for Class B malls have started to move in favor of the landlords again. Can you discuss your ability to raise rents at B and B minus types of assets? If I think about your rent spreads being 10% across the portfolio, how would that break out between sort of the Class A stuff and the Class B stuff?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

One thing we don't like to do is go through Class A and Class B. We're very focused on increasing the cash flow in all of our assets. Obviously, the ones that have higher sales per square foot, you're able to drive a little bit better bargain. We look to win-wins for the retailers. We're doing a lot of business with retailers throughout the portfolio. Our rent spreads, our averages mean a lot because with a portfolio of our size, we can't have one particular center rollover or one center doing so much more business that it's driving the statistics of the portfolio. The business has firmed up. We're pleased with where it's headed and where it's going. Retailers are looking for growth. I'd say things are all pretty good. Rick, do you want to add anything?

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

I would just underline David's point that if you look in our 8-K and see where our renovations are and where we're adding anchors and department stores, it's throughout the portfolio. We're increasing market share across the board, and that is enabling us to drive that pricing. To underline, quantifying David's point on the square footage, when you look at our sales and our statistics, that's on a base of almost 60 million square feet. There is no way for outliers to influence that. It's a broad operational trend that we're reflecting.

Christy McElroy
Analyst, UBS

Just lastly, how much capital do you envision investing in outlets in China and Brazil over the next five years, what kind of projected returns are you forecasting?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, look, it's safe to say that every international development that we've done in the outlet business has had double digits return in the 15% on average range. We would expect that that's kind of the hurdle we're shooting for. In any event, we would expect those to be at least double digits. Brazil, generally, we think the market can support in the 10 to 14 opportunities initially. Cost of those will, on average, be in the $100 million-plus range. As you know, we are partners 50/50 with BR Malls. That gives you the scope of the situation. In China right now, our focus is on one particular development. We're going through the numbers on that, and it's a little bit early to give you kind of the scope of magnitude of that, but we think it's a great site, having visited it personally.

It's a great opportunity for the company. The demand from the retailers is very strong. China, you got to be extra cautious there. We've had an experience where we learned a lot in China. Generally, I think it'll be consistent with the build and what we've done in Korea and what we've done in Japan. Cost of construction, land values are all kind of the same there. I don't want to pin those numbers down just yet.

Christy McElroy
Analyst, UBS

Okay, thank you.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Jeffrey Spector from Merrill Lynch. Please proceed.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

Good morning. Just a couple follow-up questions on Brazil. David, did I hear you say 10 to 14 potential sites?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yes, over a period of time, correct.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

I'm not as familiar with all of the different markets in Brazil. Is there any change in the site criteria, or are you saying in your first analysis, you feel that there are 10-14 sites that really fit that Premium Outlet type criteria density-wise?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Correct. That's correct.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

Okay.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

That's over an extended period of time. We've got one site identified in São Paulo. We're not in a position to disclose that yet. If all goes according to plan, we have a chance of opening that in late 2013, but more likely, early 2014. We're currently evaluating another four additional sites. The 10 to four is over an extended period of time. We've got one we're very close to moving forward on, and then another four that are further along than that.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

For now in Brazil, just sticking with the outlets, or you're still looking at mall opportunities, full price?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

This is the primary focus right now.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

Okay. Switching to your investment in Klépierre, I think you carefully said that right now you're actively involved on the balance sheet divestitures. You didn't talk about operations at all.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, I did mention that. You may have not picked it up. We've had some very good beginning discussions with the senior team there. We've owned the stock for six weeks, so you have to put it in perspective. Their senior management team is actually coming here next week. We're going to coordinate certain retail leasing at the shopping center convention coming up in May, in the U.S. shopping center convention. It's early days on that front, but it's safe to say that there are three or four areas of focus for us, operational synergies, leasing synergies, cash flow enhancement, all of that in one category, capital allocation in another category. Along with that is, what assets should they be involved in? Where should the focus be? What countries are long-term holds? Balance sheet management and then investment divestiture decisions.

All of those are kind of the three or four buckets where we're focused on, both as directors and as shareholders, and the cooperation has been excellent. There's nothing so far that, in our short involvement, that has caused any concern for us. Look, Europe has got some macro headwinds. We knew that going in. The fact of the matter is these opportunities surface when the going is tough. We're in this for the long haul, and we think it's a very good platform that we can help continue to move in the right direction and actually have bottom-line impact improvement on. That's going to take time.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

Are you personally spending a lot of time on that investment?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yes.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

Going forward? Okay.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

My last, I'm sorry.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

No, sure. I'm chairman of the board, like I said, yes, we're very involved. Not just me, but my team as well.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

Okay, my last question on development. Any new potential sites on the full price side, mall side, or lifestyle center side for you?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

No.

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

In the U.S.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I'm looking at Rick, the answer, we're just making sure we're both saying no. The answer is no, not really. We think the returns, in order to really induce the full price guys with the cost of development, are just too skinny still. Demand is still not quite there. The fact of the matter is, with our redevelopment pipeline, we got great stuff going on. Really good stuff going on. With our development or our Premium Outlet development, we are under construction. Let me just reinforce this. We are under construction in Phoenix. We are under construction in Toronto. We are under construction in Korea and Japan. We're looking at a couple other areas. We're busy. These are all very good returns that we are building new to.

At this point, why chase full price retail at lower returns when we got our plate full in that sense?

Jeffrey Spector
Analyst, Merrill Lynch

Great. Thank you.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Michael Bilerman from Citi. Please proceed.

Michael Bilerman
Analyst, Citi

Greg, good morning. It's Michael. I'm here with Quentin Velleley. David, I just wanted to start, you think about Klépierre, $2 billion, but you're an $80 billion enterprise today, so it's 2.5% of your asset base, and it has taken up a lot of your time. You've been to Europe twice in the last month. How do you sort of balance something that's a smaller part today of the enterprise and driving value for the other 97.5% of assets? Taking it one step further, you own 30% of the entity today. You're in this for the long haul. You obviously want to see a lot of improvements. The price you're going to have to pay for the other 70, if you do want to consolidate, could be meaningfully higher, benefiting Klépierre shareholders rather than Simon shareholders. How do you sort of balance all this?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Just on the first point, Michael, that's what I do. The one thing that I think amazes folks, given the scope of this company, is that that's what we do. Rick looks at whether we're getting market value on a new Gap lease. As weird as it sounds, that's just what we do. I still think a $2 billion investment ought to warrant my serious attention. That's just what we do. We've added a few people to help. We added Contis, we added Fivel, so we could leverage a little bit my time and Rick's time to do it. That's what we do. We sweat the details. That's all we know how to do, and we don't see changing from that. Look, the thing about Klépierre, it's got a portfolio. Its share of this is not quite that.

It's about €14 billion. The portfolio that it oversees is €16 billion. That's a big opportunity for us. Europe is in a state of flux, which is an even better opportunity for us ultimately to reinforce our company's position as a global brand. There are great benefits to being global. If you look at our peer group in the S&P 100, I just read you a few names, they're all global. Our retailers are going global. I think it's a great opportunity. It's a great potential platform for us to really have a significant presence there and create a sister or fully integrated Simon company over there. We've never had that opportunity. I don't know that this can be that. It's certainly worth the opportunity.

I think coming in at below NAV, even with all the macro headwinds, I don't see how we lose. It's possible we do, but we don't. When I go through this list of companies in our similar cap range, News Corp, Nike, Colgate-Palmolive, Lilly, Starbucks, Ford, Disney. Well, Union Pacific isn't because it's all railroads, but Boeing. They're all international global companies. I think it's important for us to be in that spot. Look, if Flowers, one of the great value financial investors there is moving to London because of European opportunities. This is a great platform. We'll see where it develops. It potentially could end here. On the other hand, we could take this investment and make it something special. I have no problem as long as our shareholders are rewarded along that process in sharing the wealth.

Quentin Velleley
Analyst, Citi

Hi, it's Quentin here. Just a question on the outlets in Brazil. With U.S. fashion merchandise sort of three to five times more expensive in Brazil, how do you expect the international retailers that are going into your outlets, how do you expect them to compete given the improved U.S. visa process and also the improvements in Brazilians' ability to purchase over the internet?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, look, there are more and more international retailers landing in Brazil and dealing with the tariffs. Certainly, from a customer point of view, if we can land those tenants and deliver more value to the customer, that's why I think we feel like these outlets will be very successful. It will not have the percentage of international brands like China, Japan, or Korea will because of that particular issue. We think there's enough there with the Brazilian retailers as well to populate those centers.

Quentin Velleley
Analyst, Citi

Okay.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

There's been one outlet that's been built there, and it was successful. I think you're going to have to go small, do this in phases. I think over time, you'll have more international penetration.

Quentin Velleley
Analyst, Citi

Okay. Just switching to Europe. Maybe if you could just comment on the health of the hypermarkets in Europe. How do you think they're going to change their business models and evolve to some of the challenges they're facing?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, I think that it depends on the retailer. We were, as you know, partners with Auchan, and their business model has been very successful, and they continue to do very good business. Carrefour, as you know, is a big partner, so to speak, with Klépierre. They've gone through some fits and starts in terms of where they want to go. I think they've got new leadership. Sounds like they're back to focusing on being very price competitive. That, we think will drive traffic, and we think ultimately will help us with the galleries, which we own. It's very interesting, Quentin, and you know because you got a funny accent, but the hypermarkets, they're disappointed when they do EUR 80 million-EUR 100 million.

If we had a department store or anybody that did EUR 80 million-EUR 100 million in our shopping center, we'd be very thrilled. It's all relative. I have all the confidence in the world with where Carrefour is going, that they'll continue to be a very worldwide class retailer.

Michael Bilerman
Analyst, Citi

It's funny because Quentin says you have a funny accent.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, some people have said that. You should see when I try to speak French.

Quentin Velleley
Analyst, Citi

Yeah, we had to teach you how to spell Klépierre.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I have no shot at that.

Michael Bilerman
Analyst, Citi

Thanks, guys.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure.

Operator

Your next question will be coming from the line of Cedrik Lachance from Green Street Advisors. Please proceed.

Cedrik Lachance
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Yes, we just wanted to follow up with some funny accents. Just maybe a quick one on The Mills. Just in terms of how you organize the information right now, a number of The Mills properties were moved into other operating properties. Is there anything we need to read into that?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, I think what you would read into that is there were probably not long-term owners of the three assets that are still owned by TMLP. One of those, actually, we're evaluating that, and that is, we're hopeful that over time, we can reposition that asset. A couple of them were probably not long-term owners.

Cedrik Lachance
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Okay. In regards to your ability to market those assets, timing, and ability to market those assets, what do you think that would be?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I would think it would certainly be clarified in the not-too-distant future, 12 months or so.

Cedrik Lachance
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Okay. Thank you also for the sales disclosure. In regards to the division there on the sales front, it includes outlets. Is that correct?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yes.

Cedrik Lachance
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Okay. If we were to exclude outlets from, let's say, the top 100 category, what would happen to the sales productivity there?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

It probably wouldn't matter all that much. I don't have that in front of me. I'd give you a sense of this. It's probably a 75 to 25 split, roughly, to give you a sense of order of magnitude.

Cedrik Lachance
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Okay

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Out of the 100.

Cedrik Lachance
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Okay.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Next call, we can get really specific. I don't have it entirely in front of me. I think that'd give you the general nature of it.

Cedrik Lachance
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

That helps a lot. Okay. Thank you very much.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure. Thanks.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Paul Morgan from Morgan Stanley. Please proceed.

Paul Morgan
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

Hi, good morning. Just sticking with that top 100 is 75% of your NOI. Any thoughts, given the B mall sales that have taken place by some of your peers, that you might be interested in culling the other 120 that are 25% of the NOI, making any efforts beyond the kind of single asset type focus?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I think the good news is that that market seems to be firming up. There's more players in it. I think historically, Paul, we've always wanted to cull the portfolio. As you know, that's been a relatively tough exercise. With now Starwood, it hasn't closed yet, but assuming it closes, you've got a couple other players out there that are looking to invest. I would expect us to continue to play in that game. We did sell one mall at the end of It really actually closed at the very beginning of this year, Gwinnett Mall in Atlanta. We would expect to do that. I think there are more players there, and that's the good news. We're trying to understand what their strategy is going forward, and I'm sure we'll, over time, continue to cull the portfolio to some extent.

Paul Morgan
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

If I just go back to the Klépierre. As you look at the leasing platforms, and you mentioned some kind of the global elements of the retailers. Having the time you've had spent with them and then looking at their portfolio tenants, do you think there's more opportunity to bring their tenants here and your tenants there? Given your past experience in Europe, do you think you've kind of already been well on top of that and it's not that incremental from here?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I think that probably the more likely opportunity is to bring U.S. retailers there. As you walk the malls in continental Europe, they're okay. They're not greatly merchandised. I think it possesses a great opportunity for a number of our retailers. Again, that takes time, and there are some that are making inroads there. Generally, I would think the opportunity will be more U.S. to Europe. Rick can comment on that, but there are also opportunities, as you know, for retailers there to come here, and they're actually making progress to get U.K. retailers. As an example, Primark, which is a well-known, very good U.K. retailer to add to the European retail mix there. I think it'll be a little bit of everything. I do feel that our U.S. retailers do think Europe is an opportunity for them.

Rick, you want to. I would say to you just on the other way, if you look, there's no doubt that the relationships that we've created in dealing with the H&Ms and the Zara and the Lego are going to stand us in very good stead because we're just now an incrementally more important part of their global footprint, which is what we have always aspired to be.

Paul Morgan
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

Then just lastly, sticking with Europe, how do you think about other opportunities for investment now on the continent, given you have a minority stake and you might have a different capital position, but how would you handle the conflicts with looking at outlets or looking at other opportunities that come up, via Klépierre or independently?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, look, the outlet business, Klépierre has no involvement in. I don't view that as any particular conflict. I think it gives us a great opportunity. There are so many options on the table for us now that we have an investment in a very fine company like Klépierre. By the way, they're very good developers. They build great product. I'd encourage you to look at some of the stuff that they've built. They're a first-class organization. We think we can respectfully add to that, but they're damn good on their own. I think as we look at opportunities, we'll sit with them and say, "Okay, what makes sense?" It could be within Klépierre, it could be in a joint venture with Klépierre, or it could be completely on our own.

We certainly want to see our investment in Klépierre appreciate. That's the number one goal. I just will say, on the outlet side, though, they have no presence in that. That's really not something that they're really going to do, and I would view that as kind of a separate path for us to look at what our opportunities there are in that sector.

Paul Morgan
Analyst, Morgan Stanley

Okay, thanks.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Alexander Goldfarb from Sandler O'Neill. Please proceed.

Alexander Goldfarb
Analyst, Sandler O'Neill

Hi, good morning.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

How you doing?

Alexander Goldfarb
Analyst, Sandler O'Neill

Doing well. Sounds like you're getting some extra lessons in French over there.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I don't have a lot of talents, but one talent I know I do not possess is the ability to learn a language at my age.

Alexander Goldfarb
Analyst, Sandler O'Neill

Well, it is pretty telling of a French organization to appoint an American to be chairman, so that's a pretty strong statement in and of itself. Question on, you guys took a major stake in Klépierre, and yet when you went to Brazil, you just did a JV with BR Malls. Can you just speak about the opportunity or your thoughts on taking a stake in BR Malls? Speaking to people, there's a lot of respect for BR Malls. The Brazilian market seems to still attract a lot of long-term interest. Sort of curious why you opted for just more of an asset JV rather than more of a corporate JV the way you did with Klépierre.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, we really didn't talk about that too much. I think we want to get our feet wet in Brazil, do it a little bit more methodically. The values there have gone up a tremendous amount. BR Malls is a big company, okay. Then you get into the currency risk, though their currency seems to only appreciate versus the dollar, but put that aside. There's lots of issues there, but we really never got into that kind of dialogue. At this point, we're focused just on building out the outlet, the platform with them.

Alexander Goldfarb
Analyst, Sandler O'Neill

It sounds like it's more of a learning curve, whereas you've had many years of European experience. You want to build that experience in Brazil. Is that?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I think so. Look, remember, we had exposure in Europe, I almost view this as kind of replacing what we had. We put a little bit more money in it, but with a better company, with better growth, long-term growth prospects, even though the world's a little wacky there. A proven organization, lots of optionality on where to take that organization, a way to hedge our currency investment because we can borrow in euros. There's all sorts of math associated with it that works a little bit easier than in Brazil. Just a quick response. It's a very complicated question, but just a quick response to your question.

Alexander Goldfarb
Analyst, Sandler O'Neill

Okay. Separate and along the same lines, your comments, David, about China were rather tempered about just focusing on one site. Just sort of curious, especially given the recent political scandal over there. Has that made you any more cautious or what is driving your hesitancy about China?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, it's obviously just a big market and a very complicated market. What's driving us, it's very simple. The international brands are just kicking ass there. If we can get an outlet built in the right location

We're very confident we can lease it up. We have, we think, partnered with a good person to partner with, but we still have to prove the math, prove the ability to make the numbers work and all that. It's just a big, complicated market and when they like something, they just build it, as you know. Right? Supply and demand sometimes is not as thoughtful there as it might be in other, more mature markets. We just got to make sure that we can make money doing these things. I think doing one or two, thereabout, is probably the right way to go for us right now.

Steve Sakwa
Analyst, ISI Group

Thank you.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Steve Sakwa from ISI Group. Please proceed.

Steve Sakwa
Analyst, ISI Group

Thanks. Good morning.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Hey, Steve.

Steve Sakwa
Analyst, ISI Group

Hey. Hey, Rick. I guess just first question, as you're talking to kind of the larger tenants, the Targets, the Costco, and the like, I know you guys have done a lot. You've replaced a lot of department stores and anchors and added. I'm just wondering, how much more activity do you think there is from them? I guess as you look through kind of the top 100, how many more assets can you sort of touch? Meaning, how much more sort of inventory do you think you can sort of touch and put in? Are these tenants also looking at kind of the bottom 100 properties, or are they really focused on sort of the top 100?

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

In fact, it's throughout the portfolio. If you just keep track of what we've done in the 8-K, this quarter, we've got 51 anchors that are being added throughout the various platforms, and that's up from the 30 that we listed in the fourth quarter 2011. On top of that, we're on another 38 anchors. Target is still looking for opportunities. We're adding them at Cottonwood. We're adding them at South Hills in Pittsburgh. We have a number of other opportunities that we're discussing with them, but also with a whole range of other potential users. We've added Arhaus furniture. We opened a new Lord & Taylor. We're opening Macy's at Gurnee. We're opening Last Call Neiman Marcus at Ontario. It's across the board, and we're working with supermarkets. We're opening a The Fresh Market at the Falls.

We're opening Wegmans in Montgomery Mall in Montgomery County-

Steve Sakwa
Analyst, ISI Group

Philadelphia

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Philadelphia. Earth Fare in Hamilton. We're across the board, and there's still a great deal of interest, and we have opportunities, because in a lot of instances, we're moving out weaker anchors and replacing them with stronger ones.

Steve Sakwa
Analyst, ISI Group

Okay. It does seem like it's kind of permeating down into kind of the B mall product as well?

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Well, it's throughout the portfolio. Again, we don't like to categorize As, Bs, and Cs. It's throughout the portfolio, and you look at the scope of what we've been doing, and just we've identified every one. You can see it's throughout, across the quality spectrum.

Steve Sakwa
Analyst, ISI Group

Okay. David, I guess I'll bring up the question because I asked Bobby as well, but just in St. Louis, I mean, I realize, the outlet business has been fairly competitive. You've certainly won your fair share of battles in different markets. I'm just wondering kind of what your thoughts are on St. Louis, and is that a situation where only one project gets built, and is it just kind of a race to kind of the start line here?

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Well, I'm surprised it took that long to bring up. Look, St. Louis is a good opportunity to build an outlet center. I'll just say this. When we get approvals, we will build an outlet center in St. Louis. We don't have approvals yet. We expect them in the near future. We will build there, and we're very confident in our ability to lease it and provide a very good return for our shareholders. We've got to get approvals. That's the only roadblock that I see in terms of our building the center.

Steve Sakwa
Analyst, ISI Group

If I'm not mistaken, I believe there's something on May 9th, is that correct, when you're supposed to get some final approvals, or is it further out than that?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah. I'll turn that to Rick. He can briefly give you, but we're very confident we're going to get approvals, but we still have to finalize that. Then when we do, we're building. Go ahead, Rick.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

There is a hearing on the 9th, and the final hearing's on May 21st, and then we can start the development at the site.

Okay. Then, in that case, I guess, David, just lastly on just kind of other outlets within the U.S. market, I mean, kind of what does the shadow inventory look like or pipeline or potential deals that you might be looking at?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah. Well, look, just briefly, Phoenix, as you know, is under construction, where Rick's 60-

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

60% committed

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

60% committed, That's all systems go. Toronto, there's been a lot of discussion. We're wildly excited about that. That's under construction.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

60%

60% committed.

Announced The Bay.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Announced The Bay, which is a well-known department store there. We think that's important because that will facilitate a lot of the wholesale accounts

It's all kind of going according to plan. St. Louis and Phoenix both announced a Saks OFF 5TH as part of our new development there. We have one site in Florida, which we're finishing approvals there. I'm afraid to mention the city because there'll be six guys on site. I've got to refrain to do that. Needless to say, we are really excited about that. That could actually start, Rick, don't you think this year, maybe?

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Yeah.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

That could start in late this year, and we also have Merrimack. Oh, by the by, it's opening on June 14th, and it's 100% leased. We have Texas City that's opening in October, and that's substantially leased.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah, go ahead. That's where I was going

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

is all the expansions that we're doing in some of the best outlet centers in the world.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

So-

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Seattle Premium Outlets is under construction, opening in June of next year. Chicago Premium Outlets, we're expanding. Desert Hills Premium Outlets is starting next month. We are expanding Orlando Premium Outlets down by Disney the third quarter this year. We're expanding Woodbury, and we're expanding Las Vegas North Downtown, and that's starting in October of this year. Those six expansions combined are probably two or three additional new products adding square footage at the most productive outlet centers pretty much in the world.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

We're working closely with the town, but Woodbury could be really exciting. It's the best outlet in the world. What we're thinking about doing there, working obviously closely with the town, but assuming we make progress and get some approvals there, I think we take that asset up to yet another level.

Steve Sakwa
Analyst, ISI Group

Okay, thanks.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Ki Bin Kim from Macquarie. Please proceed.

Ki Bin Kim
Analyst, Macquarie

Thanks. This is Ki Bin. Just going back to your acquisition with Klépierre, and going back to your comments about corporate-level synergy, not synergies, but sharing best practices and of that sort. I'm guessing the brainpower would shift more from you to them in terms of expertise and best practices. How do you actually get compensated for that, given that it's still technically only an equity investment and not close to any kind of merger?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, look, let me say this. We are never too proud to learn from anyone. In fact, they are a very accomplished company, so I would expect us to learn a lot from them. I think that's absolutely a part of the order. Part of our investment philosophy is we're going to learn a lot from them in terms of how they run the business and operate. It's all part of being a global company in that you take a little bit of everything that you learn across the world, and you make everything you have across the world a little bit better, and that can drive the needle. I would hope, and I would expect that they could actually show us a few things here. That's very important that I say that.

At the end of the day, if we can add value there, that's fine, too, because our shareholders will benefit from our investment. That's just part of it. It is a little bit risky to go into Europe right now, so we had to weigh that, in a sense, against taking on the whole enchilada, and what's the best way for us from a capital allocation point of view. Those are the trade-offs, and I think we're satisfied today kind of where we're at.

Ki Bin Kim
Analyst, Macquarie

I know at a 30% stake, you're still far from an M&A. Is there any sharing of personnel?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

At this point, no, but we do have the ability to add a senior management person to the management board there. I think over time, as we assess what the areas where we could be most beneficial, we'll figure out who that person might be. I think that will develop over the next few months. I do think there will be the opportunity there. We do have our vice president of international operations basically coordinating and liaising, I think is the word, right? Our activities there. He'll be in the office there. We would hope to have some input on that kind of basis.

Ki Bin Kim
Analyst, Macquarie

Just if you clarify one point, I know it's a $2 billion equity investment, but the overall size of the investment is closer to over $4 billion on Klépierre. Could you actually comment on the FFO yield on investment?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, I don't know where you get the. We look at it as a $2 billion investment.

Ki Bin Kim
Analyst, Macquarie

I'm saying if you include the leverage of the company.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

We don't look at it that way. When we're an equity investor, we have $2 billion at risk. We don't have $4 billion at risk. I'd argue that completely with you. Let's put that aside. Your question again, I lost it.

Ki Bin Kim
Analyst, Macquarie

The expected FFO yield accretion.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, look, you can do the math. I mean, it's a public company. It is accretive certainly to our yield, given what the multiple we bought it at versus our multiple and where our cost of funding was for the deal.

Ki Bin Kim
Analyst, Macquarie

Okay, thank you.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure. Thank you.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of David Harris from Imperial Capital. Please proceed.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

There's no truth to the rumor, David, that you beat the pants off Rick and Steve in the French test, which is why you took the German slot?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, I have no talent, you know what? Nor do they. It's not a hard exam.

Steve Sterrett
CFO, Simon Property Group

That would be a race where there was no winner.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

We do have one guy that has a pretty good accent, okay? He's now on the board, he tells me he understands French, I'm not sure. He does have a good accent.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Yeah, you can do oui and non, I guess. Which is probably all that counts. Are you hedging this in any way, this investment?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yes, we have hedged. Steve, how much have we hedged?

Steve Sterrett
CFO, Simon Property Group

David, we left $1 billion U.S. out on our line denominated in EUR. We're 50% hedged on our equity investment.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Okay. Does this prospect of President Hollande fill you with any terror? I mean, you did make references to the uncertainty, I think the prospect of a socialist president of France is perhaps a little larger.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

You know what? Look, why is that different than the U.S., right?

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Well, I have heard specifically, David, that there has been talk around of the French REIT structure coming under attack.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

No. Absolutely not.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Okay.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Look, when you look at the properties and how their merchandise mixed, I don't think that changes the consumer behavior. What's going to change consumer behavior is where the economy goes. Whether that's better under Hollande or Sarkozy is up for debate. I'm certainly not in a position to say who's better at what. What fascinates me about Europe, and what they're going through is, the one thing that I will say is that, with respect to Europe, at least, they're tackling their deficit problems. David, you're very familiar with what's going on in the U.K. You can certainly argue it's too much or too soon or however they're doing it. We're in complete denial here.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Well, we have the world's reserve currency, which allows politicians to behave as they do here.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure. At some point, that changes.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Yep

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Look, I'm not losing sleep about the French elections. In fact, nor the U.S. elections in the sense that, I think the economies of both can overcome bad politics. We could argue about the level of recovery, but the fact of the matter is you can't keep the American business environment and the American entrepreneur down.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Okay.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

We want to grow. We will grow. Look, I don't view that the French economy all that different.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Back on a more perhaps mundane, you've raised the dividend three consecutive quarters.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

That's obviously been pretty impressive. I know it's hard to pin down your tax liabilities and such like as we go forward. Is it reasonable to think we're going to get this every quarter now?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, at some point, not every quarter. We're still chasing our taxable income. The answer is at some point.

Steve Sterrett
CFO, Simon Property Group

We'll catch up

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

we'll catch up.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Is it-

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I shouldn't really say more than that other than, We're still chasing it. At some point, we'll catch up, but we're still chasing it.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Is it any way possible to characterize the growth in the dividend relative to the FFO? I know it's probably too nefarious at this point to do that. If you were to grow your FFO by, say, 10%, is the

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well-

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

growth in the dividend is going to be the order of 12 or 13 in the most general terms?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I mean, there's a lot that goes into it, especially with asset composition changing.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Sure.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Put that aside. The fact is, our earnings are really growing, and our dividends really got to grow.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Yeah.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

It's got to go faster. Okay.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Steve, there clearly is a correlation between your dividend growth and your FFO growth. It's not a perfect correlation because, as an example, in an acquisition, we may get a step up in assets which allows more depreciation expense. You may not have as much taxable income growth as you do FFO growth, but there is a high correlation.

David Harris
Analyst, Imperial Capital

Okay. [Foreign language] Merci and au revoir.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

[Foreign language] au revoir. Thank you, David.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Nathan Isbee from Stifel Nicolaus. Please proceed.

Nathan Isbee
Analyst, Stifel Nicolaus

Hi, good morning. Actually focusing on the core mall portfolio. Your sales have been growing double digits quarter after quarter, yet the rent spreads, they're strong, but still aren't back to where they were a few years ago, and it's still an uncertain world, and you have some tenants downsizing. What point, given the sales productivity, can you say to the tenants, "Sorry, we're going to demand rents to reflect the sales progress and see that acceleration in the rent spreads?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Rick, A couple of things that are relevant in evaluating the spreads. One, if you look at the growth in our average rent, it has been going up considerably every quarter. Secondly, we are building into our leases annual increases in rent. If you go back historically, before we did that, when a lease expired, you had a much lower base rent because we weren't getting consistent, guaranteed bumps in minimum rent over the term of the lease. That has been a major advantage for us in order to take the risk of tenant performance out of our financial matrix. When you look at the spreads that we have and build that in, it's been a considerable benefit.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Look, Nate, I would also just add to this, that look, sales are important, but there is also Let's face it, everything is going well. We're running the business better. It can always get better. There's still a number of retailers that are having margin pressure or comp sales pressures, and that puts pressure on our business, so that's why the spreads aren't, not everybody in the retail world is hitting on all cylinders. They may have margin pressures, which puts pressure. We want them in the center, or we don't have backups right away. Obviously, our averages are really important because of the size, and they give you a real good indication, but not eight or $10 is because there's a handful of retailers that are important in the portfolio, that are under margin pressures or sales pressures.

Instead of just telling them, "Get lost," we're still working with them, as they try to improve their business.

Nathan Isbee
Analyst, Stifel Nicolaus

All right. Just quickly on Halton Hills, you've only announced one tenant. Can you just give us maybe a little more detail-

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure

Nathan Isbee
Analyst, Stifel Nicolaus

on it?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Rick, we'll list you some tenants.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Well, we're basically 60% committed now, leases that are going Banana, Brooks, Cole Haan, Converse, Gap, Levi, Nike, Puma. We talked about The Bay, Under Armour, Calvin Klein, Hugo Boss, Michael Kors. It's going to be an outstanding selection of retailers, we're going to create what is going to be the unique premium outlet environment in that market.

Nathan Isbee
Analyst, Stifel Nicolaus

Given that tenant mix, another competing center perhaps a few miles closer to Toronto, you think people will be willing to drive past to get to yours?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, look, I'm not going to really comment on this other potential site other than to say, there are a lot of merits to our site. Nate, we're opening next year, okay? We don't have to get any approvals. We're done. We're under construction, we'll lease the center. I don't know what else I can tell you other than that. You can draw your own conclusions. We're done. We're moving, we have no worries.

Nathan Isbee
Analyst, Stifel Nicolaus

Okay, thanks.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Ben Yang from KBW.

Ben Yang
Analyst, KBW

Yeah. Hi, thanks. David, going back to your comments on the new players making a push into the mall industry, just curious what you think these newcomers might mean to the mall industry longer term, given that it's an oligopoly that obviously benefits from fewer rather than more owner-operators.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah. I missed part of your, can you just restate it? Because the connection wasn't that good.

Ben Yang
Analyst, KBW

Yeah. Just obviously private equity trying to increase their presence in the mall space. It's an oligopoly. Fewer owners are better than more owners. I'm just curious to get your thoughts on what this might mean to the industry longer term.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, I certainly don't use oligopoly by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, retail, if you want to hear my I'll save you a lot of diatribe here, retail is really competitive. Malls compete with all sorts of retail, online strip centers, lifestyle centers. That may be your view of the world. It's not mine because it is really a competitive industry across the board and it's tough, very tough. The more that people want to come into the business and put capital into it, I think the better for us.

I'm not sure I answered your question. Look, at the end of the day, operating your real estate is the key to success in retail real estate, primarily, just to contrast it to, say, office, has been operating it better, versus buying it right and then finding the right time that cap rates are X and waiting for cap rates to move in your favor. That's not always the case. Generally, unlike office where it's really more of a potential timing, where it can help. The answer for a lot of those folks is just how do they operate it and can they operate it effectively? If they can, maybe they'll make money, which is good, attracts more capital. Institutionally, Steve can comment on it. I mean, institutionally, the level of interest from deep money, institutional investors in high-quality retail assets has never been higher.

Price is secondary because they look at the returns. Well, I shouldn't say price. Going in yield is a secondary consideration. It's really the growth of the NOI. It's never been higher, frankly. Again, the need for us to look at that source of capital is not critical, but it's never been higher.

Ben Yang
Analyst, KBW

Okay. I guess the difference this time is that, unlike a passive pension fund that gives you guys money, these guys are trying to build actual platforms to run their businesses. That is helpful. Just moving along, you also make comments that the B malls are firming up. I think Rick mentioned retailers are generally opening up across the board. You're obviously always trying to cull the low end of the portfolio, but does this make you maybe more or less inclined to sell your B malls, maybe taking advantage of more buyers out there, but maybe at the risk of missing the recovery in the B mall space?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

No. Look, I think we're good enough to know what we believe in in the future and what is better in other people's hands in terms of, just a poor allocation of our human resources. Sometimes it's okay to sell and let somebody redevelop it just because we've got enough to do and we want to allocate our resources elsewhere. I think we can handle that issue in particular. I said, look, the fact that there's more people coming into that market, might lead to a few more sales from us over a period of time.

Ben Yang
Analyst, KBW

Okay. Thank you.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Rich Moore from RBC Capital Markets.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Hey, guys. Good afternoon.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Hey, Rich.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

David, on Klépierre, can you buy or build something together, in a joint venture, given that you guys sit on the board of Klépierre?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure. I mean, it would have to be subject to approval of their board without us participating. Certainly, sure.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if we had a development or acquisition and we could certainly partner. It'd have to be approved by the board without our involvement, but sure.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay. All right, good, thanks. Then on Del Amo, that has always struck me as very good real estate. I used to live out there in that area, yet nothing ever built seems to ever come of that asset.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah, we know.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

I mean, what are you guys thinking there? I mean, what is the plan? You said you were working on a big redevelopment. I mean, what is the idea?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I'll let Rick start, but you're 100% right. It's been a source of frustration for us. I mean, we were working on some plans, when we bought Mills in April of 2007, right?

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Right.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Those got derailed by the 2009 crunch. They're back up and running. We have real confidence in that, otherwise, we wouldn't have bought. That was ahead of our bigger deal with Farallon. Rick, this is Kostis' baby. He's not here to tell you about it because it might take 10 minutes. Rick can give you the highlights of what we're doing. We would hope definitively to really start this thing next year. Rick can give you the high level.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Just a couple of bullet points. One, you can change everything about a property other than where it is, and it's in a great market that is really underserved by fashion retailing. We've got interest from a couple of fashion anchors. We've got great support from the city, and we're looking at a total redevelopment of the property that would substantially change its character by keeping some of the existing anchors, replacing some of the anchors, adding anchors. The best thing is we've got substantial demand from retailers and restaurants. There's a lot to do. We're spending a great deal of time on it. We have people based out there that are working on it on a constant basis, and we're very optimistic we're going to be able to.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah, the only thing I'd say, given the size of the property, it's going to be in a couple phases. The first phase, we would hope to start in 2013.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, so this is probably a few hundred million dollars in total, something like that?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yep. I think that's probably right.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

You think we'll get that fashion department store that the previous CEO of Mills promised us about six or seven years ago?

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

We'll let you know.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Yeah, good, thank you. Then a two quick questions for Steve. Were there any acquisition expenses this quarter? I couldn't figure out where they might be. I thought they might be in G&A, but I didn't see anything in there.

Steve Sterrett
CFO, Simon Property Group

There were not, Rich. Under generally accepted accounting principles, when you make an equity investment, you capitalize those expenses. They've been capitalized as part of the investment in Klépierre line.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

I'd just say we had de minimis costs on the Farallon deal that we just put in other expenses.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, then the percentage rents in the joint venture jumped pretty significantly, and I'm assuming that's because there's more percentage rents in the Klépierre portfolio. Is that right?

Steve Sterrett
CFO, Simon Property Group

No. We did not record any results associated with Klépierre in the first quarter, Rich. That's organic activity related to the portfolio.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Why would those be so high? They seemed abnormally high. Maybe I'm missing something. They seemed unusually high.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Well, we have a number of venture properties in very good markets that have been benefiting from the influx in visitors. That's what you're seeing. We've had great sales growth.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Also, that includes some of the Japan expansions. All those are in Japan, they're all basically in Korea. They're all percentage rent deals. We've had great success there.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

In fact, that's a good point, David, because part of the results driving the JV line, Rich, are, if you remember last year, was the earthquake in Japan.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Yeah.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

We had much better results coming out of Japan first quarter of 2012 compared to 2011.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

One thing, just to keep everybody in perspective, when I mention all these assets, our international outlets, on average, do about 1,000 a sq ft.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Yes.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Those are not in the numbers that I stated at the end of my prepared remarks.

Richard C. Moore
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay, very good. Thank you, guys.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure, thanks.

Operator

Your next question is coming from the line of Michael Muller from JP Morgan.

Michael Muller
Analyst, JPMorgan

Yeah, hi. Just one question. You obviously have been very complimentary of Klépierre, and you seem like you want to be in Europe longer term. Just thinking, what would cause you not to step up and increase your investment over time once the option period becomes effective? Is it just what's going on with the sovereign issues in Europe, or is it something else?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, it's hard to know exactly where we are and what we're doing. Look, I think, as I said to you, that what we have done there and all the assets and intangibles that the company, the company being Klépierre, possess, I think just gives us tremendous amount of optionality on the whole of Europe, and we'll see where that goes.

Michael Muller
Analyst, JPMorgan

Okay. Okay, thanks.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Sure.

Operator

Your final question will be coming from the line of Omotayo Okusanya from Jefferies. Please proceed.

Omotayo Okusanya
Analyst, Jefferies

Yes. [Foreign language]. How's everyone doing?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Bonjour.

Omotayo Okusanya
Analyst, Jefferies

Just a couple of quick questions. Brazil and China, did you guys talk about potential yields on those developments, what that could look like?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Not yet, because we do that once we start construction. I would say to you, Brazil, I said it a little bit earlier, we would expect them to be consistent with kind of mall yields there, double digits. In China, we would expect that to be consistent with our Asian developments, which have all been.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Mid-teens

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

in the mid-teens. We'll get more clarity to that once we start construction on something.

Omotayo Okusanya
Analyst, Jefferies

Okay, that's helpful. Just the Phoenix construction, could you talk about that in relation to Arizona Mills being so nearby, whether that creates any issues in regards to trying to lease up that asset?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Not really. We view them as two separate and distinct markets. Arizona Mills is more of an infill project. It's actually weathered the Phoenix situation pretty well, the Phoenix economy pretty well. We think they'll hopefully be a little bit complementary. We'd expect, given the infill location and the fact that the outlet will probably drive more tourism, where Arizona Mills is probably considered more of a regional mall, in a sense, in terms of less tourism, that they'll both be able to prosper as the economy continues to improve.

Omotayo Okusanya
Analyst, Jefferies

Okay. That's despite the fact that Arizona Mills has a whole bunch of outlet-oriented stores in it already.

Rick Sokolov
President and COO, Simon Property Group

Well, I think you need to focus. Arizona Mills is almost 1.3 million square feet. It's got a substantial entertainment component with a theater and SeaLife. It has a number of tenants that are, as David said, regional mall-type tenants. There's a JCPenney outlet, there's Forever 21, there's H&M. It really is focused on a much broader market. While there will be some overlap, it's a relatively small percentage of the square footage in the merchants at Arizona Mills.

Omotayo Okusanya
Analyst, Jefferies

Got it. That's helpful. Then to Klépierre , is the European market dramatically different such that the Simonization process that you guys are so good at in the U.S., is that easily transferable to these assets from a generating ancillary income, banner income, like all the kind of other things that you've kind of established as industry practices here in the U.S.? How easy can you really translate that over to their stuff?

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

It's certainly more of a challenge than it is here. We have had some success in our previous European investments in doing that. What's interesting, it's changed a lot and that the retailers are now much more global than the ones that we deal with in the U.S. and in Europe. I'm hopeful that it won't be as easy as it is here in doing that. When we buy something that we don't own, it's a pretty easy transition. There, it's going to take more time, but I think the opportunity exists.

Omotayo Okusanya
Analyst, Jefferies

Great. Just one more last question. In regards to this question about A malls and B malls, I think we've all been pushing, trying to get confirmation from you that there is demand spill-over to the B malls, but you don't quite seem to want to confirm that. Just kind of curious one way or another why that's so.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Well, I think all we said is we don't like to say A or B malls. You know our portfolio, you can decide what you think of it. We like it a lot. Our statistics that we report on each quarter would have to, given that it's a huge asset base, the averages are meaningful, and I don't think we could produce these results if only the top end of the assets were producing results. How does that answer the question?

Omotayo Okusanya
Analyst, Jefferies

Well said.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Okay.

Omotayo Okusanya
Analyst, Jefferies

Okay. Thank you. [Foreign language]

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

It's hard for me. I appreciate the compliment because that's a real challenge sometimes. Thank you. [Foreign language]

Operator

At this time, I'm showing no further questions in queue. I'd like to turn the call back over to Mr. David Simon for any closing remarks.

David Simon
Chairman and CEO, Simon Property Group

Okay. Thanks for your time. Hopefully, we didn't take too long, and we'll talk to you soon.