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Earnings Call: Q2 2018

Jul 26, 2018

Operator

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Sun Communities second quarter 2018 earnings conference call. At this time, management would like to inform you that certain statements made during this conference call, which are not historical facts, may be deemed forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Although the company believes the expectations reflected in any forward-looking statements are based on reasonable assumptions, the company can provide no assurance that its expectations will be achieved. Factors and risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are detailed in yesterday's press release and from time to time in the company's periodic filings with the SEC. The company undertakes no obligation to advise or update any forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances after the date of this release.

Having said that, I'd like to introduce management with us today, Gary Shiffman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, John McLaren, President and Chief Operating Officer, and Karen Dearing, Chief Financial Officer. After their remarks, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. I'll now turn the call over to Gary Shiffman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. Thank you. You may begin.

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Good morning, and thank you for joining us on our second quarter 2018 earnings conference call. The strength of Sun Communities' platform continued to be evident during the second quarter, with Sun achieving 11.5% growth in core FFO per share of $1.07, ahead of the top end of our guidance range. Operating results across both our manufactured housing and RV platforms were once again very healthy. As we indicated on our first quarter call, our acquisition pipeline is quite active, and we were able to convert a number of potential opportunities during and after the second quarter. The combination of the second quarter's operational performance, coupled with the accretive investments completed in and subsequent to quarter end, allows us to raise our 2018 core FFO per share guidance by $0.07 at the midpoint to $4.57-$4.63.

We experienced same community NOI growth of 7.2% in the quarter, representing the 23rd consecutive quarter of mid to high single-digit same community NOI growth. The largest contributors of our same community NOI growth were a 4% rental rate increase and a 200-basis point occupancy increase, reflecting our continued ability to attract new residents and guests to Sun's communities and resorts. On the investment front, we've been very active, adding both operating properties as well as land for ground-up developments with a total value of $334 million. The investments in operating properties are accretive from day one, and a number of them offer Sun value add, repositioning, and expansion opportunities. Among this quarter's investments was an 80% equity interest in a $256.8 million portfolio with Northgate Resorts, a highly recognized owner/operator in both RV and manufactured housing space.

The Northgate portfolio consists of 10 operating RV resorts with 2,700 developed sites and 625 expansion sites in eight states. It also includes a 315-site ground-up development currently under construction in North Carolina. The Northgate transaction offers Sun a unique opportunity to engage with a premier owner/operator with additional potential investment opportunities down the road. In addition to Northgate, on a wholly owned basis, during a subsequent to quarter end, we purchased seven operating RV resorts with 1,500 developed sites, 175 expansion sites, and one land parcel for ground-up development. The operating properties include a four RV resort portfolio in Oregon and Utah, and three individual RV resorts in our core operating regions of Florida, Michigan, and California. The land parcel, which we discussed previously on our first quarter call, is located in Granby, Colorado.

After completing a two-year zoning and entitlement process, we closed on the land and are commencing the development of an 1,100-site combination manufactured housing and RV resort. These are exciting times for Sun. We continue to produce industry-leading results while maintaining a strong and flexible balance sheet. The consistency in our operations is the result of our emphasis on implementing best practices and the pursuit of continuous improvement. To that end, we have formed a strategy and transformation team akin to an internal consulting group that is tasked with analyzing all aspects of our business to uncover ways to capture additional revenues, improve and streamline processes and procedures, and strengthen all aspects of the Sun platform. The team is comprised of seasoned team members from the operations and accounting teams.

We are making this strategic investment in our company after a period of hypergrowth to ensure that we are extracting as much value from our prior activities as possible and to position Sun for continued strong performance as we embark on future growth initiatives. With that, I would like to turn the call over to John and Karen to discuss our results in more detail.

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

Thank you, Gary. Our emphasis on providing superior customer experience enhances our ability to drive NOI growth, as demonstrated by our results. Sun delivered a total portfolio revenue increase of 14.1% in the quarter, as both our manufactured housing communities and RV resorts contributed to this quarter's performance. Occupancy in the total portfolio was stable year-over-year at 96.1%, with the manufactured home portfolio at 95%, up 30 basis points on a sequential quarter basis. RV revenues rose 20.9% in the quarter. Revenues from home sales continue to show strength in the second quarter, with a 33.6% increase. Sales volumes rose 17.7%, with a 65% increase in new home sales volume to 134 homes sold. The average new home sales price grew to $109,000 in the second quarter, up 17.4%.

We are seeing particular strength in our new home sales in Florida, Michigan, and South Carolina, which accounted for almost 75% of total new home sales. Pre-owned home sales volume rose 12.4%, while our pre-owned home sales revenue grew by 13.9% in the quarter. We gained 634 revenue-producing sites in our total portfolio in the quarter, with roughly 66% of those gains in our manufactured home communities. Of these, 187 site gains were in expansion communities, predominantly in Michigan and Georgia. We also had 219 RV transient to annual lease conversions in the quarter, bringing our total to 514 RV conversions for the year. We have now gained 1,250 revenue-producing sites for the year and remain on track with our guidance for revenue-producing site gains in 2018 in the 2,700-2,900 range.

Year-to-date, we have completed the construction of 375 expansion sites and expect to complete the construction of approximately 1,000 additional expansion sites during the second half of the year. For the remainder of my remarks, I will discuss our same community results, which were solid in the second quarter. Revenues rose 6.3%, driven by a 4% weighted average monthly rental rate increase and a 200 basis point occupancy gain to 97.8%. Expenses increased by 4.6% for the quarter, in line with our expectations. This translated into a 7.2% NOI growth for the second quarter. On a year-to-date basis, we have delivered NOI growth of 6.2%. Manufactured housing revenues rose 5.9% for the quarter, while annual RV revenues increased by 8.7%. Transient RV revenues rose by 7.3% and should continue to grow as we enter the northern summer vacation season.

Thus far, we are very pleased with our summer season kickoff. Memorial Day weekend was a big success with a 27% revenue increase over the same weekend last year. Additionally, during the July 4th vacation week, we saw a 10% revenue increase over the same period in 2017. Reservations for the rest of our summer season are pacing in line with last year at this time. In conclusion, we are very optimistic about the pace of our internal growth performance and our execution on external growth opportunities. With that, I will turn the call over to Karen for an overview of our results and updates to guidance. Karen?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

Thanks, John. Sun reported $1.07 of core FFO per share for the quarter ended June 30th, 2018, a penny above the top end of previously provided quarterly guidance. As we disclosed in our earnings release, Sun invested in properties valued at approximately $334 million during and subsequent to the second quarter. The investments were funded with cash on hand, equity raised through our ATM program, and advances from our line of credit. Additional details on our acquisition funding can be found in the portfolio activity section of our supplemental. At the end of the quarter, we had $3.4 billion of debt outstanding with a weighted average interest rate of 4.36% and a weighted average maturity of 7.8 years. At quarter end, we had $20 million of unrestricted cash on hand. Our net debt to trailing 12-month recurring EBITDA was 6.5 times.

However, on a forward basis, accounting for the EBITDA contribution from our year-to-date acquisitions, our net debt to EBITDA ratio is in the low sixes. On the capital markets front, we repaid $178 million in three collateralized term loans with a weighted average interest rate of 4.53%. Subsequent to quarter-end, we entered into a $228 million 20-year collateralized term loan at a 4.1% interest rate. In addition, the company is in active financing discussions related to its second quarter acquisition activity. During and subsequent to quarter-end, we issued roughly 1.2 million shares of common stock through our at-the-market equity sales program at a weighted average price of $93.78 per share. This ATM activity includes the 200,000 shares previously disclosed in April's earnings release. Moving on to guidance, we are raising our core FFO per share expectations to $4.57-$4.63 per share.

From the prior range of $4.48-$4.58 per share. To take into account the contribution impact of our closed acquisitions, completed ATM share issuances and financings, and anticipated additional financing related to the acquisitions. Our guidance revision also considers an increase to our G&A expense to a range of $79.8 million-$81 million. The increase in G&A reflects changes to the company's executive long-term incentives plan, which increased amortization in the current year as outlined in our proxy, as well as the staffing and training of the strategy and transformation team Gary discussed earlier, and certain one-time non-recurring expenses incurred through the first half of 2018. In the third quarter, we anticipate core FFO per share of $1.34-$1.37 per share. Our same community NOI growth guidance of 6.75%-7.25% remains unchanged.

Due to the seasonal nature of our recent acquisitions, it is important to note that the full-year accretion from these acquisitions is fully realized in our 2018 FFO guidance increase. Said differently, these properties make the vast majority of their annual NOI contribution in the second and third quarters. In 2019, the FFO contribution in the first and second quarters from these acquisitions is expected to be neutral, given the aforementioned seasonality of the results. As a reminder, additional potential acquisitions or capital markets activities not specifically outlined in our discussion are excluded from revised guidance. This completes our prepared remarks, and we'd like to open up the call to questions. Operator?

Operator

Great. Thank you. We will now be conducting a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you'd like to move your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. One moment please while we pull for questions. Our first question is from Drew Babin from Robert W. Baird. Please go ahead.

Drew Babin
Analyst, Robert W. Baird

Hey, good morning. I was hoping to talk about the acquisitions from the second quarter and early third quarter. Just wondering if you could kind of classify the various components of it from a yield perspective and how we should think about that, especially considering there's a substantial development element to it. I guess furthermore, as a follow-on question, the accretion out of the gates on the deal, does that sort of depend on or does that hinge on maintaining the revolver balance at a relatively elevated level? Is the accretion, from the way you see it, kind of still carry through once it's permanently financed?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Hey, Drew. There are a lot of pieces to that, and I want to make sure we cover them all. I wasn't sure you were looking for some comments on the acquisitions that we made subsequent and before the quarter, and then I might have missed something you asked for after that.

Drew Babin
Analyst, Robert W. Baird

I guess just starting with the yields on the acquisitions would be a good start.

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Okay. Sure. I think that if you were to take all 17 of the operating properties, the average cap rate would be five six. If you were to break out Northgate 10 properties, which is the significant component, that cap rate would be five five. We have a lot to build on there. I think that just commenting on the structure, it was necessary to structure the acquisition with Northgate's participation. When we approached them, we've had a very long-term relationship with Northgate and actually acquired another large manufactured housing community with them in a similar structure many years ago. They felt that they wouldn't have realized the full benefit of repositioning the properties, building out the expansion sites, and extracting the value from undermanaged properties. There was a strong willingness by them to want to participate on that side.

On the other hand, we felt that Sun was able to buy in on a win-win basis at today's value prior to that value being created, and that upside would benefit our stakeholders. Finally, the transaction and the agreement allows us to access other opportunities that exist in the Northgate pipeline. We think we'll continue to see a flow of acquisition opportunity that we can elect to participate or not participate in the future. We had the four-property small portfolio that we mentioned, and the other three properties were just single asset acquisitions.

Drew Babin
Analyst, Robert W. Baird

Okay. I guess secondly, the second part of my question was more on the financing front. Given that there are financing assumptions in guidance, I guess, the revolver balance being where it is as of quarter end, and obviously that's come down a little bit with the new secured financing. Is there kind of an assumed blend of sources for that money, or do you think it's mostly just going to be a large secured loan given that run rate leverage is in the low sixes, which is fairly healthy?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

Drew, definitely the guidance that we have includes assumptions for longer-term financing for the acquisitions. We are still in negotiations, ultimately, it'll be determined how it will wind up, it's looking to be sort of a one-time, one loan that would replace our $121 million that's currently on our line of credit balance.

Drew Babin
Analyst, Robert W. Baird

Okay. I guess finally, a pretty large tick up in transient RV sites with the acquisition, obviously there's quite a bit of transient in it. I guess, can you talk about plans long term to convert more of those to seasonal and annual? Also talk a little bit about the geography. I noticed that N.Y. and California site count were up, also "other locations," which that could possibly be Georgia expansions. I guess I just wanted to be clear kind of where that's occurring.

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

Yeah. Hey, Drew, this is John. Conversions, as you know, are sort of one of the core levers that we have. We'll continue to look for opportunities to convert from transient to annual within that portfolio. With that said, we're always very focused on maintaining the correct site balance between transient and annual to maximize revenue generated on a per site basis. With this portfolio, we will do the same analysis over the next 12 months and make the appropriate adjustments that maximize that return.

Drew Babin
Analyst, Robert W. Baird

Okay, great. That's all for me. Thank you.

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

All right, thanks.

Operator

Our next question is from Nicholas Joseph from Citigroup. Please go ahead.

Nicholas Joseph
Analyst, Citigroup

Thanks. Maybe just following up on Drew's first question, what's the balance on the line of credit today?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

We ended the quarter at $534 million, I think, and the financing was transacted yesterday, so at minus $228 million.

Nicholas Joseph
Analyst, Citigroup

Okay. There were no additional acquisitions on the line since June 30th that would've increased it further?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

Yeah, there was the one acquisition after quarter end on Sands. It was $14 million.

Nicholas Joseph
Analyst, Citigroup

Okay. Does guidance assume any additional equity or asset sales to pay down the line, or is it more just terming it out with longer-term debt?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

The assumption is just terming it out with longer-term debt.

Nicholas Joseph
Analyst, Citigroup

All right. Just on 2018 same-store NOI guidance, you maintained it. It looks like to reach the midpoint, you'd have to see a significant ramp in the back half of the year. Is that revenue driven? Is that expense driven? Is it something about the comps? What gives you confidence to maintain same-store NOI guidance?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

Yeah. Absolutely, you're right that we do expect an acceleration in the second half NOI growth. On the second half, we're expecting similar revenue growth as in the first half of the year on lower expenses, since I think on that six and three-quarter to seven and a half guidance, if you had similar expense growth of between 5.9 and 6.1, it would imply about a 3.8%-4% expense growth, Nick.

Nicholas Joseph
Analyst, Citigroup

Thanks.

Operator

Our next question is from John Pawlowski from Green Street Advisors. Please go ahead.

John Pawlowski
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Thanks. Gary, could you give a little bit more detail and sense for size of additional investment opportunities through Northgate with what they currently own and their acquisition pipeline?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Sure. As I said, they're excellent owner operators and developers, and we maintained a relationship for 20 plus years. It was 20 years ago when we did the first transaction together, and that turned out to be an excellent manufactured housing community. They have been focusing their efforts on underperforming assets and opportunities to really reposition with underlying attractive locations and entitlement and zoning. They are reviewing a number of other opportunities and, in fact, have presented us with at least two additional opportunities. For the next several years, we've agreed that as they see opportunities, we will be entitled to elect to participate with them or not participate with them on a similar basis to what we've done previously.

John Pawlowski
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Do you get a first right to refusal?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

I believe that is correct, yes. I'm just trying to remember the operating agreement, and yes, we did.

John Pawlowski
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Okay. John, obviously traffic's very healthy across MH and RV platforms. Move-outs are accelerating a little bit. I'm just curious if any few markets are driving that, and what do you think the reasons are for slightly elevated move-outs?

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

Yeah. Regarding the move-outs, I mean, really the change, John, is related to a change in the annual lease cycle associated with the RV resorts that we've acquired in the past, and mainly that's just to match the overall portfolio cycle. If you kind of split that apart and you look at the MH side of things, those move-outs are tracking pretty much exactly in line with 2017.

John Pawlowski
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Last one for me. When you look across the markets, particularly with the RV business, and you look at migration trends, vacation patterns, if you could wave a wand overnight and shift your portfolio geographically, where you think the best returns, the best cash flow are the next couple of years, what markets are you really excited about, and what markets are you bearish on within your current footprint?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Well, I'll answer it first, and anyone else, John, you can add to it. I think that the single most important thing in the RVs certainly is location. Some of it's geographically patterned, but equally important is actual location to destinations, whether they be vacation resort areas, whether they be related to activities in the area, water, beachfront, ocean lakes, and the like, hiking mountains. They definitely make up most of the interest in demand for RV communities. Additionally, we have the retirement component, the snowbird coming down wanting warmer weather. I think it's a great question strategically. When we look at acquiring RV communities, we'll probably turn down as many as we put into due diligence just because the locations don't have the strategic factors that I just discussed. I don't think it's any one part of the country.

It just has to be an area where we believe there's going to be enough demand, and John, if you want to add anything.

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

I think, John, the only thing that I would add to that is, as we sort of embarked on the greenfield development, in advance of that process, we went through a very detailed study on demographics, migration habits and that sort of thing, frankly, to have the data help us decide the places we want to be. I think you're starting to see it with some of the previously announced areas where we are, and I think more of that will emerge as time goes on.

John Pawlowski
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Okay.

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

I think the only thing that I would add on the transient nature we discovered the average drive time is between three and four hours. The demographic studies that John and his team put together and the acquisition groups really patterns out the rings around population and determines within those rings in the three to four-hour period where there are enough populated areas to be able to draw upon. That helps us a lot with how we think about it.

John Pawlowski
Analyst, Green Street Advisors

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question is from Joshua Dennerlein from Bank of America Merrill Lynch. Please go ahead.

Joshua Dennerlein
Analyst, Bank of America Merrill Lynch

Sir, you've had a relation with Northgate for 20 years. When maybe you were looking at assets, did they also kind of bid on the same assets as you? Like, how much overlap was there over the years?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Interestingly enough, there never has been any overlap. It is a family-run organization. They focused a lot on ground-up development, and a lot of their original assets passed to a couple of REITs that have been consolidated in other forms over the years. I think it's more recently that they've really strategically focused on underperforming assets and creating value by repositioning them. That's what we've been watching them do over the last three to four years. I think that's, as I said earlier, what they're continuing to focus on right now.

Joshua Dennerlein
Analyst, Bank of America Merrill Lynch

Okay. Are they doing any more ground-up development? Is that an area where you guys can partner?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

It is, we actually, the Chula Vista venture in San Diego, it's really where we got reacquainted again a few years ago, as they were very interested in it. We had already put a request for being considered out there, and they expressed interest in participating with us. When we move forward to put a shovel on the ground, it's likely that they will participate on the same percentage basis as this transaction.

Joshua Dennerlein
Analyst, Bank of America Merrill Lynch

Okay. Interesting. Thank you.

Operator

Our next question is from John Kim from BMO Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

John Kim
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Thank you. With your recent acquisitions and planned developments, where does this take your income breakdown between RV and MH? How high do you feel comfortable taking RV exposure to?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

I think I'll let Karen actually discuss the percentages. I'd suggest to our shareholders and the audience today that this was a strategic and unusual opportunity that we took advantage of. With Northgate recently, that as we look through the pipeline, there is as much manufactured housing coming through due diligence now, if not more, than the RV resorts. I would expect to continue to balance out in the portfolio pretty much in a two-thirds, one-third basis. It might increase one side or the other for a period of time, that's generally what we expect to do.

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

Yeah, just the revenue would basically follow the site. We've got about 65% of the sites are manufactured housing and 35% is RV.

John Kim
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay. Just following up on the Northgate joint venture, assuming you're managing the assets and not the partnership?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

I think that for right now, we're very pleased with what Northgate has been able to achieve. We plan to keep Northgate Property Management in place. They've done an excellent job in acquiring and really turning around these properties. They've invested, as I said earlier, I alluded to earlier, more than $38 million in CapEx over the last 12 months. I think they'll do a great job managing them. However, all the accounting and financial work has been transferred over to Sun Communities, and we'll be there to support them in every effort as we watch how these communities grow.

John Kim
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

The 5.5% yield that you quoted for this acquisition, is that a stabilized yield or like a year one yield?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

That was based on trailing 12.

John Kim
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay. Are you going to have the same strategy as far as converting transient to annual, is there a high percentage of transients in that portfolio that you could convert?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Yeah, there is high. I know John mentioned it earlier. You can reiterate what you said.

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

No, basically, we have to look at the opportunity, John. It's a portfolio that there's a high complement of transient sites. That said, we want to make sure that we're focusing in on, as I mentioned earlier, maximizing the revenue generated on a per site basis. That's something that we will actively be inspecting over the first 12 months that we're with Northgate on this, and make those adjustments as necessary to maximize that.

John Kim
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Okay, then finally on the joint venture, are these assets going to be included in your consolidated income statements and metrics? Will they eventually be included in your same-store results?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

They are fully consolidated in our balance sheet and income statement. They'll be included in same-store in 2020.

John Kim
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

2020.

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

Right?

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

Right. Yep.

John Kim
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets

Thank you.

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

Thank you.

Operator

Your next question is from Jason Green from Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.

Jason Green
Analyst, Evercore ISI

Good morning. I was wondering if you could comment on the broader kind of MH and RV acquisition market. It seems like there have been some larger deals done recently, and I'm not sure if that is because of more willingness from private sellers to sell or some broader market force.

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Yeah, that's a great question. I think there's a lot of interesting things happening, and timing in our industry is very interesting out there. The fact of the matter is that we do continue to see further compression in the cap rates for the high quality and the mid quality assets. In each of our calls, I've shared kind of what that cap range compression has been, and in the last calls, we were seeing things dip in for the highly sought after, usually coastal communities or very large high quality communities, dip through five to the four cap rate range. We're now seeing further compression to the low 4s. We have walked away from two, three assets that we would've been interested in but could not justify the purchase price.

There is competition from both the sovereigns, from the typical funds that you would expect, as well as private capital. A lot of 1031 transactions taking place that are satisfied with the lower yielding steady returns that I think have been attracted to the asset class. We have to work harder and knock on more doors, if you will, and turn over more rocks. Like our competitor, we have the advantage of being able to use securities that defer tax consequences. That's very useful. We really rely on the long-term relationships we have. In some cases, as we've shared with everybody, it is the opportunity to go ahead and develop two to three ground-up communities a year in areas where we think the cost to acquire existing communities is just too great, and we can develop to better returns for our shareholders.

A very competitive environment out there right now, haven't seen any impact from interest rates. The debt financing has pretty much remained unchanged. Good long-term debt for high-quality assets available in the 4%, just 4%-4.5% range. We are turning over a lot of opportunities in the pipeline to try and find the right ones moving forward. For us, it's a matter not just of going in price, but really how much value we add can we create, how can we take a certain cap rate and grow it into an expanded cap rate over a period of three to five years.

Jason Green
Analyst, Evercore ISI

Great. Thanks. Just one more question, apologize if you already mentioned this, what was the rate on the temporary loan in the acquisition?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

5%.

Jason Green
Analyst, Evercore ISI

5%. Great. Thanks.

Operator

Our next question is from Todd Stender from Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

Hi. Thanks. Just to focus back on that loan, can you talk about the mechanics of that? Is that a loan made to the joint venture? What's the duration of that?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

Yes, it's a loan made to the joint venture. It will be in place until we secure the permanent financing that we're in negotiations on for the entity-level JV.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

Are you going to maintain a lien against it, or does that convert to equity? What happens to that?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

It just takes out our loan, it'll reduce our line of credit, and it'll be consolidated as a piece of the JV on our balance sheet.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

As a loan?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

As a loan.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

Okay. How do you finance that? Is this a medium-term loan, do you think you'll use equity to finance that?

Karen Dearing
CFO, Sun Communities

No. We're seeking a loan from our bankers, looking to be around a five-year facility.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

Okay. Got it. Then for the joint venture, are you guys managing it? Are you going to earn a fee on that?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

As I indicated before that we're kind of excited and really thrilled at having the Northgate management team continue managing it. Of course, they're careful oversight. All the financials and accounting has already been switched over to Sun. For the time being, we're real pleased to support the efforts that they are performing on the ground at those communities.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

All right. Just separately, the seven RV resorts that you acquired. That's right, across five states. There's this 175 sites available for expansions. Is that a number that you're given, or is that your estimate of what you think you can expand to over the coming years?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Those are 175 entitled sites within the portfolio that already exist when we acquire those assets.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

Then maybe there's some upside to that number. Is that fair?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Typically, what we would do with any acquisition is we would look for ground that's contiguous with the existing communities. We have a whole department and staff that does that. The moment that we identify properties, even before they're closed, those properties move up to that group, and that's in process right now.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

Finally, back to the new home sales. Now that your average sale price has eclipsed $100,000, do you see more financing of that? Is it still cash? Any changes to that now that the price point seems pretty high?

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

This is John, Todd. There is more financing that's happening in terms of new home sales, and that's more related to the fact that, frankly, one of the things I'm most excited about is not all new home sales are coming out of Florida. They're coming out of Michigan, they're coming out of South Carolina, they're coming out of Ohio and places like that, where these are in our all-age communities. Okay. We're seeing sort of a shift, or I should say a growth, in that side of our portfolio towards new homes. That typically has supported a higher % of transactions that are financed than what you typically see in Florida or Arizona.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

Any numbers around that, whether it's a loan-to-value, a 10-year term on a chattel loan, any specifics?

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

I mean, typically from a term basis, the terms are going to run between 15 and 20 years on those. They're usually kept pretty tight. From an upfront percentage, I think that the average down payments that we see on most of our financings is between the 10%-20% range.

Todd Stender
Analyst, Wells Fargo

Okay. Thank you.

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Yep.

Operator

Our final question is from Wes Golladay from RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead. I'm sorry, Wes, you may be on mute by accident.

Wes Golladay
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Hey, sorry about that. Looking at Costa-Hawkins, it seems to be a much bigger deal in California this year versus years past, I'm wondering if you're going to allocate more resources to the area. It seems to be everyone wants to have more affordable housing. Maybe this would be a good time to go out and try and permit stuff. Is that something in the game plan?

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

It's Gary. I think that strategically, our focus began in 2011 to have more communities and area coverage in the East Coast. After we completed that, we began moving to the West Coast, we are very focused on that area as we're growing that part of the portfolio. California is a place that is of interest to the company. We have to be very cautious and careful there to balance the long-term growth with the cost of operating in that area, we have certainly identified several opportunities. We just completed one new RV development that went online this last season. We have two potential developments that we've discussed before San Diego, we will continue to evaluate the area just as we do everywhere else. We're looking forward to getting Granby, our Colorado new development, launched and in the ground as it has closed this last quarter.

With that and Chula Vista in San Diego, we will have experienced the first two times operating very closely with municipalities who are looking to solve their affordable housing issues, we hope those two case studies will lead to more opportunities, whether they be in California or elsewhere, to really meet the challenging needs of affordable housing. It's certainly one area we will look at.

Wes Golladay
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Regarding the current development as part of the recent acquisition, when will that open up?

John McLaren
President and COO, Sun Communities

It's got sort of a, call it a soft opening that's happening next month. It's going to be sort of the tail end of the season, but it'll be fully operational for the next northern season, right around Memorial Day.

Wes Golladay
Analyst, RBC Capital Markets

Okay. Thank you.

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

Yep.

Operator

This concludes the question and answer session. I'd like to turn the floor back over to management for any closing comments.

Gary Shiffman
Chairman and CEO, Sun Communities

I just want to thank everybody for joining us today on the conference call. We certainly are available for any follow-up questions and look forward to talking to you all this year at third quarter results. Thank you.

Operator

This concludes today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you again for your participation.