Welcome to Unisys Corporation Third Quarter 2022 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in a listen only mode today. Please note that this event is being recorded today.
I would
now like to turn the conference over to Ed Yuen, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us. Yesterday afternoon, Unisys released its Q3 2022 financial results. I'm joined this morning to discuss those results by Peter Alkeneff, our Chair and CEO Deb McCann, our CFO and Mike Thompson, our COO, who will participate in the Q and A session.
2nd, you can find the earnings press release and presentation slides that we will be using this morning to guide our discussion as well as other information relating to our Q3 performance On our Investor Relations website, which we encourage you to visit. 3rd, today's presentation, which is complementary to the earnings press release, include non GAAP financial measures. The non GAAP measures have been reconciled to the related GAAP measures, and we have provided reconciliations within the presentation. I'd also like to remind you that all forward looking statements made during this conference call, including any references to guidance or color regarding expected financial performance are subject to various risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. These factors are discussed more fully in the earnings release and the company's SEC Copies of those SEC reports are available from the SEC and along with other materials I mentioned earlier on the Unisys Investor website.
Unisys does not assume any obligation to update the information presented on this call, except as Unisys deems necessary and then only in the manner that complies with Regulation FD. With that, I'd like to call over to Peter.
Thank you, Ed. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us to discuss our Q3 results. We continue to make progress in shifting our business to higher value solutions in the high demand focus areas of modern workplace and digital platforms and applications. Clients are seeing the value of our solutions in these focus areas As evidenced by revenue growth approximately at or above in both of them. Our focus area solutions are also higher margin, an indicator of increased profitability over time.
As we discussed last quarter, we are providing more visibility into our Enterprise Computing Solutions segment, ECS, by differentiating our specialized services and next generation compute solutions from our licenses and support, which will allow us to highlight each of their unique strengths. Our transformation is beginning to take hold. It will soon be fortified by a new brand identity and marketing campaign Designed to increase awareness for our company and our key solutions, we believe this platform will influence consideration in the market and be a But first, I'll give some insight into our transformation. Let's start with Digital Workplace Solutions or DWS. Our primary focus in DWS is on higher growth, higher margin solutions that help clients streamline and optimize collaboration To maximize employee productivity and engagement and we refer to this as modern workplace.
We believe the modern workplace market is an approximately $40,000,000,000 market, growing at a 3 year compound annual growth rate Hager of approximately 12%. We said last quarter that we plan to grow faster than the market And we did just that in the Q3, driving revenue growth in excess of 50% year over year. We also accelerated our modern workplace momentum in the quarter by securing a year over year increase in total contract value An example of success in Modern Workplace is the expansion of our work in the 3rd quarter of a large financial institution that provides to provide digital workplace solutions. This contract will help improve communication and collaboration between teams regardless of location. We also signed more than 20 new logos in Modern Workplace for specific scope solutions, which in time can lead to full service relationships.
Wins like these are helping shift our business mix toward modern workplace, which we expect to represent approximately 15% of DWS revenue in 2022 versus 7% for last year. We expect approximately half of our DWS revenues To be in Modern Workplace in 2025. As we look to the future, our pipeline for Modern Workplace Is more than $400,000,000 as of the end of the third quarter, more than doubling year over year. We expect the margin in Modern Workplace to be in the mid-twenty percent range by 2025. The more we move our DWS portfolio to Modern Workplace, the more profitable we expect to become.
We earned significant recognition in Modern Workplace from a leading industry analyst in the Q3. ISG recognized Unisys As a global leader for every services quadrant in its 2022 future of work provider lens. We also continue to build partnerships with key players in the modern workplace market. For example, in the Q3, we signed a new logo client Through the partnership we recently announced with ONEE, we feel very good about the prospects for this partnership. In short, our modern workplace strategy is working.
Our solutions align to a fast growing and higher margin market and one in which we are positioned to take share. Turning to Cloud Applications and Infrastructure Solutions For CA and I, we continue to shift the mix of our CA and I business towards solutions This is the higher growth, higher value piece of our CA and I business. We believe the DP and A market is approximately $230,000,000,000 growing at a 3 year CAGR of Approximately 19%. In general, we expect to grow this business as fast as the market over the next 3 years. From a revenue perspective in the Q3, we saw year over year revenue growth for DP and A of 18%.
We expect DP and A to represent approximately 30% of CA and I revenue in 2022 versus 20% For 2021, we expect approximately 40% of our CA and I revenue to be in DP and A in 2025. Clients are seeing the value of our DP and A solutions, while it's also evidenced By more than 100% year over year growth in signings for ACV and more than 50% year over year growth In TCV signings for this focus area in the Q3. Our DP and A pipeline is also growing. It was more than $800,000,000 in the 3rd quarter, a year over year increase of more than 50%. As a Q3 example of success in this area, we signed a DP and A contract with a current DWS client That engineers consumer product goods.
This contract enables Unisys to deliver and support secure access through Microsoft Azure To the client's domain, including enterprise applications, an excellent example of what we call cross selling. Regarding profitability, we anticipate our DP and A margin to be in the mid-twenty percent range in 2025. Again, as with Modern Workplace, the more we move our CA and I portfolio to DP and A, the more profitable we expect to become. The market continues to recognize our leadership and momentum in this area as well. For example, During the quarter, industry analyst firm Nelson Hall recognized us as a leader in its end to end cloud infrastructure management 2022 report.
Unisys was named as a leader in each of the report's 5 focus areas: Microsoft Azure Capabilities, Cloud Orchestration Services, Cloud Management Services, AWS Capabilities and overall capabilities. In addition, our CA and I team has just achieved the AWS migration competency designation. To earn this designation, one must demonstrate deep AWS technical experience and proven client success In specialized areas across industries, use cases and workloads, AWS validates candidates against a high bar to achieve this designation and we expect it will accelerate our momentum in DP and A. As we did with DWS and CA and I last quarter, we are introducing a new focus area for ECS This quarter, in order to provide additional insight into our business, we call it specialized services And Next Generation Compute or SS and C. This focus area covers managed application Services, managed services, industry solutions and overall compute capabilities in each instance where we have significant intellectual property.
One area we are excited about within SSC is our Air Cargo Industry Solution. We continue to provide comprehensive and robust air cargo management to our clients as we have for many years. We expect to enhance value for existing clients and attract new clients through the deployment of Richer data analytics capabilities to further improve efficiency in cargo operations. SS and C is already A $200,000,000 annual revenue business. This represents approximately 30% of ECS revenue, But this percentage is more likely to fluctuate based on the size of the license and support business in any given quarter.
We expect to grow the SS and C business between mid and high single digits annually through 2025. Our margin in SS and C can also fluctuate depending on the mix of what we sell, but we expect To be typically in the low to mid-thirty percent range. The remaining portion of ECS is licenses and support or LNS, which is the part of our business that consists of ClearPath Forward and some other IP related licenses and support. This is the portion of this segment that typically gets more attention in conversations with you because it's larger. But given its dependence on the timing of renewal schedules, it is more variable quarter to quarter and even year to year.
The market for our L and S business is unchanged. We do not expect significant growth. While it is possible The new capabilities and solutions could be classified and commercialized in a more traditional licensing model. We believe it is much more likely that we will drive growth in a services or and as a service model as part of SS and C. In the Q3, L and S revenue was down 12.7% due to the timing of license renewals.
Given the heavily weighted renewal schedule we saw in 2020 and in 2021, coupled with some driven early renewals in 2022 that were scheduled for 2023, we expect 2023 revenue will be down approximately 25% year over year. Based on the current renewal schedule, we expect 2024 to grow in the low single digits, With 2025 to grow low double digits. With 2020 as its base, We expect a 5 year CAGR of approximately negative 3.5%. On the profit side, the margin percentage for L and S will fluctuate based on the volume Because of a relatively fixed cost base, we expect margin in the mid-seventy percent this year, Approximately in the mid-sixty percent in the next 2 years and then returning to the low 70% by 2025. It is clear that SS and C and L and S have unique strengths, and we're pleased to be able to highlight them for you going forward.
Both are important for our business. Moving to our brand identity. We expect the launch will occur in the Q4 of this year. Brand is the last mile of our transformation and the new brand will bring our solutions to life in a meaningful compelling way. We believe our new marketing campaign will increase market awareness, which in turn will help drive key sales metrics such as leads, Pipeline wins and ultimately revenue and margin.
The new identity addresses how we help clients Meet the changing needs of the market, while also serving as a key influential factor in our ability to retain, attract And inspire talent. This is the most significant brand transformation for the company since 1986. We are very excited about it and we believe the market will be too. The Unusys transformation is taking hold. At the same time, we experienced some unexpected challenges since the last earnings call that have led us to lower our revenue and profitability guidance for the year, which Deb will provide With that, I'll turn the call over to Deb to discuss our financial results.
Thank you, Pierre, and good morning, everyone. In my discussion today, I will refer to both GAAP and non GAAP results. As a reminder, reconciliations of these metrics are available in our earnings materials. Additionally, I will provide total company revenue on an as reported basis as well as in constant currency. I will provide segment level revenue on a constant currency basis.
I will now provide insight into our Q3 results. I will also highlight the changes in our guidance and provide an update on our defined benefit As we look across the company, the transformation of our solution portfolio and go to market approach drove improvement in leading revenue indicator Qualified Pipeline is approximately $6,000,000,000 representing growth of 25% year over year. Annual contract value or ACV in the quarter was up 20% year over year, primarily driven by new business ACV growth of 41%. As we've mentioned before, we believe ACV remains a more informative metric than TCV for our business Given the reduction in average length of contracts and clients' preferences to move to SaaS based offerings that we have seen in our industry. Total contract value in the quarter was up 31% year over year.
Backlog was down 1.9% sequentially, up 2% excluding foreign exchange. Total company revenue was $461,000,000 in the quarter. This is down 5.5% year over year and up 0.3% in constant currency. Foreign exchange had a 5.8% negative impact on our revenue this quarter. The constant currency growth was primarily driven by revenue in our focus areas of modern workplace and digital platforms and applications and partially offset by the impact of non strategic Traditional workplace contracts exited in 2021 as part of the transformation that Peter described.
Excluding the impact of these non strategic contracts, Total company revenue grew 4.7% in constant currency. Now I will move to our segments, starting with Digital Workplace Solutions. DWS revenue declined 4%, primarily due to an approximately $20,000,000 impact from non strategic contracts exited in 2021. Excluding these, DWS grew 12.2%. The exited contracts will impact the 4th quarter by approximately $12,000,000 Revenue grew 5.4% sequentially, which demonstrated continued progress in the DWS business.
We expect to see continued sequential growth in Q4. We are encouraged that we continue signing new logo contracts for our modern workplace solutions as it highlights our ability to shift to the higher growth, higher aspect of the industry. The ANI revenue in the 3rd quarter grew 8.1% year over year driven by growth in DP and A. We expect to see constant currency growth both year over year and sequentially for 4th quarter. For ECS, the 3rd quarter was a light ClearPath Forward license renewal quarter, which drove a 3% year over year decline.
As a reminder, the majority of ECS revenue timing depends on the number and size of contracts up for renewal each quarter as opposed to renewal rates themselves, which Remain over 95%. Q4 will realize more license renewals resulting in positive year over year growth in that quarter. We still anticipate full year 2020 revenue to be down low single digits year over year for total ACS. Will now discuss the changes in our revenue guidance. Despite seeing positive momentum and encouraging leading indicators in our key focus areas this quarter, We also experienced some unexpected challenges since the last earnings call.
A majority of these challenges were macroeconomic in nature, including foreign exchange and existing client budget constraints and economic impacts that caused some renewal delays or in some cases reduction in scope. 2 of these challenges were client specific, one for the modification of scope for a client project and another for an client that shifted its new scope expansion to a SaaS contract, which provides a more steady stream of revenue over time, but less upfront revenue in 2022 than we had anticipated. Similar to the challenges in our existing client base, we are experiencing an impact in our revenue estimations Related to new logo signing delays. These have led us to lower our revenue growth guidance for the year to negative 1% to positive 1% Growth on a constant currency basis or from negative 5.5 percent to negative 3.5% as reported. Moving to profitability, total company gross profit margin was down 3 40 basis points year over year to 22.6% versus 6% in the prior year period, primarily because we had more clear path forward license renewals in the Q3 of last year versus this year.
Now moving to the segment level, again starting with DWS. Our efforts to drive productivity expanded EWS' margin by 2 70 basis points year over year from 12.4% to 15.1%. This was an improvement 210 basis points sequentially. We expect productivity improvements to continue and more efficient staffing models, stabilizing cost of labor And our ongoing mix shift to drive improvement in DWS margin both year over year and sequentially in the 4th quarter. Moving to CA and I, margin was 5.6% versus 5.9% in the prior year period.
As we increase Awareness of our capabilities in CA and I, we expect profitability upside both year over year and sequentially for the Q4 as we continue to execute labor and asset productivity improvements. ECS margin was down 6.50 basis points year over year, Year to year and throughout the year, given that the key components of costs are labor to support the platform and the amortization of software development costs. So the timing of license renewals has an impact on profitability. Total company non GAAP operating profit margin was 3.1%, down 260 basis points year over year, primarily because we had more clear path forward renewals in Q3 last year versus this year. Adjusted EBITDA margin was 11.4%, down 3.90 basis points year over year.
We expect non GAAP operating profit and adjusted EBITDA margin to be up year over year in the 4th Quarter, driven by automation and labor productivity improvements and higher ECS license revenue. Based on the revised guidance and ongoing economic pressures The revised revenue guidance, I'm sorry, and ongoing economic pressures, we are revising our full year non GAAP operating profit margin guidance to 6% to 8% and adjusted EBITDA margin guidance to 14.5% to 16.5%. We reported a net loss of $40,100,000 or $0.59 per diluted share versus a net loss of $18,700,000 or $0.28 per diluted share in the prior year period, primarily driven by timing of ClearPath forward renewals, one time charges related to cost reduction activities and other non recurring expenses, in part offset by Tax benefits due to the partial reversal of valuation allowances. Non GAAP net income was 3,100,000 or $0.05 per diluted share versus $6,900,000 or $0.10 per diluted share in the prior year period. With regards to Q4 expectations, we plan to implement a cost reduction program to further improve our cost structure, continue to right size our real estate footprint accommodate our hybrid working environment and write off certain assets for which we expect to take a pre tax charge between $50,000,000 $60,000,000 in the Q4.
Turning to cash flow. 3rd quarter free cash flow was $23,800,000 down 15,600,000 Year over year impacted by lower adjusted EBITDA and changes in working capital. We continue to expect to be free cash flow positive this year. We now anticipate a range of $5,000,000 to $25,000,000 for the full year. Also, we expect capital expenditures to be between $85,000,000 $95,000,000 For the Q4, free cash flow is highly dependent on the timing of ECS license renewals, which earn revenue and typically collect cash in the same quarter.
We had a cash balance of $351,000,000 as of the end of the 3rd quarter, which is above our working capital needs. I will now turn to our defined benefit pension plan. During each year end, Unisys reports its estimated U. S. Qualified defined benefit pension plan Cash contributions based on expected asset returns and funding discount rates as of that year end, while noting that the future funding requirements are likely to change Based on, among other items, market conditions and changes in discount rates, we reported during our full year 'twenty one earnings call that we did not anticipate required contributions for our qualified U.
S. Defined benefit pension plans for at least the next 10 years. However, given the material deterioration in the capital markets since December 31, 2021, We are providing you with an interim estimate based on the September 30, 2022 market conditions as it has become increasingly likely The contributions to the U. S. Qualified defined benefit pension plans will be required during this 10 year period.
Our current estimates are based upon updated plan assets and estimated discount rates as of September 30, 2022, but do not incorporate updates Any of the actuarial assumptions such as expected return on assets, projected future interest rates or mortality along with several other actuarial Assumptions, which are updated only at year end. While no contributions are expected in 2023 or 2024 To the U. S. Qualified benefit pension plans, we currently estimate cash contributions to these plans will be required beginning in 2025. The markets can significantly change between now 2025 when payments are expected to begin and continue through 2,032, The end of our estimate period.
However, for the U. S. Qualified defined benefit plans, we estimate that starting in 2025, Annual contributions for each of the subsequent 8 years will average approximately $100,000,000 for these plans. Please note that these contributions are in addition to the other defined benefit plan funding requirements, which are still estimated to average approximately $30,000,000 Now let's turn to GAAP defined benefit pension plan liabilities. Rising interest rates result in lower GAAP defined benefit pension Accordingly, the U.
S. GAAP estimated defined benefit pension deficit this year to date has narrowed As the increase in interest rates reduced our estimate of the defined benefit pension liability to a greater degree than the decline in assets. We estimate a total GAAP deficit liability reduction of almost $100,000,000 from the $750,000,000 deficit reported at the end of 2021. At the year end, we will provide an update to all these estimates based on final asset values and actuarial estimates at that time, and we plan to return to our annual update cadence there I also want to speak to the Form 12b-twenty 5 that Unisys filed yesterday and mentioned in our earnings press release. The Audit and Finance Committee of our Board is conducting an internal investigation regarding certain disclosure controls procedures matters, including but not limited to the dissemination and communication of information within certain parts of the organization.
Due to the ongoing investigation, Which as we disclosed in the filing may determine there are 1 or more material weaknesses in Unisys' internal control over financial reporting, Unisys requires additional time to file our Q3 10 Q and as such filed the 12b-twenty 5. Importantly, we do not expect the investigation We are working to complete these processes as soon as possible, but do not expect to be in a position to file the Form 10 Q within 5 calendar days of the prescribed due date. As Peter noted upfront, despite setbacks, primarily driven by macroeconomic conditions, we continue to make progress in shifting revenue Through our higher value solutions in the high demand focus areas of modern workplace and digital platforms and applications that we introduced last quarter, Clients are seeing the value of our solutions in these focus areas as evidenced by revenue growth approximately atorabovemarket in each of them. Our focus area solutions are higher margin, an indicator of increased profitability over time. With that, I'll turn the call back over to Peter.
Peter?
Thank you, Deb. I would note that for the Q and A session, in addition to Deb and myself, we are joined today by Chief Operating Officer, Mike Thompson. The 3 of us will be pleased to respond to any questions you may have. Joe, would you please open the call for questions?
We will now begin the question and answer session. Our first question here will come from Anja Soderstrom with Sidoti. Please go ahead.
Hi. Thank you for taking my questions. So First, I'm just curious
about the slowdown in the revenue
Guidance. Are you seeing the customers delaying contracts or are they rather taking smaller contracts or what are you seeing there?
So Anja, let me answer that and obviously, Deb and Mike can join in. It's a little bit of both. We have seen some contracts. We saw one contract, which we expected to sign in the Q3. We now expect it to sign in the Q4.
So that's a slippage. We've seen some contracts that really I think because of the economic uncertainty out there, have come in a little smaller than we expected. And we've actually seen the makeup of some contracts change. So for instance, Deb mentioned the contract, which actually we thought it was going to be a license contract. And instead, working with And what the client really wanted to get out of that, it has become more of a SaaS contract.
So that will be paid over time And we'll recognize the revenue over time instead of recognizing the revenue upfront. So it's a little bit about all of that. I defer to Mike a little more answer there.
Yes, no, Peter, I think you've hit all of the pertinent points there. I'd say, Anya, that From a market facing perspective, we've been very happy with the engagement of the client base. And in general, I think it's probable I would Characterize it as more of a deferral than anything else. The pipeline remains strong. The conversations continue.
And As Peter mentioned, with the exception of a couple of contracts where the scope was de scoped slightly, We've seen others that actually increased their scope, right? So I think there's a good mix out there. And I really think it's a lot more macroeconomic concerns than it is anything to do with solutions.
Anja, thank you for the question.
Okay. And I was just curious, how much of the guidance would it
Yes. So, thank you for the question. The foreign exchange had about 100 basis point impact on the as reported revenue guidance.
Okay. Thank you. And can you also talk to the verticals where do you see
most challenges? Are there any standouts there or any verticals that are holding up better than others? I'm sorry, can you repeat the question? I couldn't hear what you were asking.
Is there anything you can call based on the verticals you said?
Are better than others? Verticals are you saying? I'm sorry. End market, yes.
Yes. What I would say there is none come to mind as specifically Either higher or lower than expectations. Mike, anything there?
Yes. No, look, I don't see any differentiation, frankly, Anja in the verticals. I think The demand and the margin profile that we've been able to maintain actually and improve Has been pretty consistent. So I wouldn't say anyone stands out to be honest.
Okay. Thank you. That was all for me.
Thanks, Aiden.
Our next question will come from Rod Bourgeois with DeepDive Equity Research. Please go ahead.
Hey, guys. So, it makes sense that macro is having impact on some of your deal activity And your pipeline commentary sounds good. You seem encouraged about what you're seeing in the pipe and also even in your recent signings. I want to ask in the pipeline, has the pipeline become more ripe in terms of the Deals that are immediately in front of you in the upcoming months or is the pipe becoming more back loaded or any other noteworthy changes in
Hey, Rod, it's Mike. I'll take that one. Thanks for the question. No, I would say, Rod, the pipeline is actually more ripe. We're really encouraged, as you mentioned, about the increase In TCV and in backlog and in pipeline in general, and again, I think in actually both of our Focus areas, we had significant growth.
And so not only is it ripe in the sense of volume, I think it's ripe in the sense of the types of deals that we want to pursue. And I think the client expectations Of us, which is great, we're having the dialogues we want to have, which is about modern workplace and about DP and A. So not only ripen volume, but I think rich in the quality of what's in there.
Okay. And then you mentioned a cost reduction plan for the Q4. And I guess I'm wondering is can you talk a little more About the latest cost reduction plan, is that plan overall more aggressive today than it would have been 3 months ago due to the macro challenges that you're seeing or are there other factors that are causing you to sort of Update your cost reduction plan?
Yes. Thanks for the question. I mean, as you know, we're always evaluating opportunities to further reduce our cost structure. But you're right in that there is some impact from the macro as well, but we are always looking at that. As far as The impact about 35%, about a third is related to real estate rightsizing, about 40% Asset retirement and then the balance to workforce actions.
Okay, got it. And then just a final one on the clarification side. It was helpful that you provided some outlooks, even in terms of some of the growth opportunities and the mix changes through 2025. In your ECS business, I think you mentioned your ClearPath Forward licensing Model. And I just want to ask, are there about any changes that you've considered to your licensing model?
And any color on that would be very helpful.
Yes. So, Rod, this is Peter. Again, thanks for all of the questions. So as we have segmented those two areas between SS and C and LNS, L and S is licensing and support. So that licensing model is in the L and S Heath of that segment.
Historically, much of the ClearPath Forward revenue Has come from licenses and support. It's always possible and we're always open to clients Moving to a more as a service model. As they move to a more as a service model, You could see revenue moving out of L and S, which is a type of contract to SS and C, which is where we have the as of service. I don't think and that's been true for years years. The nature of our clients as such, You think about large banks, think about governments, they're sensitive to the time value of money, which means that they tend to have lower cost of capital than we do, which means they're not too interested in deferring always In the way a commercial client might be to get to more of a SaaS pricing model.
That doesn't mean it can't happen. Government Changes and Financial Services change. So we're always open to that. It's part of our offering set, has been for a long time. And so I guess we'll have to see if much of that changes over time.
Got it. Thank you.
Our next question will come from Joseph Vafi with Canaccord. Please go ahead.
Hey, guys. Good morning and thanks for the extra segment color. Just I thought maybe Turning to your rebranding or your reinvigorated brand Campaign, are there any thoughts there on perhaps delaying that given the macro or how does the macro play into Or play into your decision here to keep moving forward with that because obviously there's a cost there too? And then I have a follow-up.
Yes. Joe, really thanks very much for the question. It's a really interesting question. I want to use your question to just make sure everybody understands what we're actually doing with this new branding and marketing campaign. I mentioned That it is the most important one, I believe we have done since 1986.
In 1986, The Unisys name came into place. That was a merger of the old Burrows and the old Sperry Rand. We are not Going to change the name of Unisys. So we're keeping the Unisys name. We have done a lot of research about the Unisys team And that name has equity.
That name has value. What this campaign will really do will attach more meaning to the name And more association with our specific modern solutions and the name. Now with respect to your specific question about timing, we have worked throughout Really the last we've run out this for, I think, 15 months. And we have been working on when the right timing would be. I mentioned in my remarks That we expect to launch in the Q4, that is still our expectation.
Whether we might change that or not It's up to us. But as we sit here, we're still expecting to launch in the Q4. Mike, any thoughts on that? Yes.
Hey, Joe, thanks for the question. I would I mean, I'm in the camp of not delaying and it's not so much about the cost aspect of it, Joe. But We're right. So we've been prepping this for a long time. It is a catalyst for continued growth.
And Granted the macroeconomic conditions are what they are, but the services that we provide actually provide benefits to our clients That we think will help in the macroeconomic scenario that we're in. So to me, it's all hands forward here. I think it is a real important aspect of our strategy. And as Peter mentioned, kind of the last mile to pull all this together. And I know from an internal We're super excited about it.
Yes. And just to add one more comment on to that, if I could, Joe. As I mentioned in my remarks, there are 2 elements to this. One element is all of the stuff that Mike just covered, clients, Prospective clients, 3rd party advisors, analysts, industry experts, we think that this will appeal to them. The other aspect of this is people.
And by that, I mean people who currently work at the company, people who would be attracted to work at the company. We really think that this will enhance the value of Unisys as a place to work And then people who are considering whether to join the company will be more likely to and people who are at the company will frankly be more likely to stay. So there is a people element to this that we're also very excited about. And as Mike said, we've been previewing this with some focus area groups, Both internally and externally. And I got to tell you that the reaction has been incredibly positive.
So we're looking forward to it.
Yes, that's great. I'm looking forward to seeing it myself. And then maybe just one follow-up. I know you've exited some Contracts that you deemed not profitable enough to continue last year. Is there any risk that perhaps the macro kind of results in more of those types of contracts Evolving here or popping their head up on some renewals as you look into next year if the macro is Still a tough environment.
Thanks guys.
Hey, thanks Joe. Look, we obviously look Very closely at our renewal schedule, there are only 2 contracts of bat ilk coming up in the remainder of this year. As far as renewal schedule is concerned, both are extremely positive dialogues right now, so we expect no Impact of anything like that, looking out a year to the entire renewal schedule for next year, Again, nothing on the horizon, Joe, that gives us concern in regards to those contracts. So pricing power has been Steady and we've been comfortable with the relationships that we've got in that area. So I would say at least for the next 12 months to 16 months or so in that renewal cycle, we're not seeing anything that gives us concern.
Great. Thanks, Mike. Thanks, everyone, for taking my questions.
Thank you, John.
Our next question will come from Jon Tanwanteng with CJS Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. I was wondering if you could talk about the headwinds to your growth expectations in DWS and C and I a little bit more. How much of that, I guess, weaker uptake is a Lower than expected ramp on contracts that have already been signed. You've obviously had strong ACV over the past couple of quarters.
I'm just wondering what the disconnect is there?
Yes, John. How are you doing? It's Mike. I wouldn't say, you used the term uptake. I don't think it's really much To do with contracts already signed, the volumes that we see for the contracts we're working, is really been no different.
In fact, we've seen some increases. What we're seeing is kind of new logo contracts being delayed and pushed out to another quarter, right. So I think it's more For the full term of 3 or 5 years, maybe it's a 1 year extension on the backs of a contract we already have. And in that case, perhaps even a little bit of de scoping. But I mean if you think about our strategy in general, we're actually bringing to market solutions that are providing value to the client.
And so our dialogue is about how they can actually End up paying even a higher margin and saving money because of ultimately what we're doing from a productivity perspective More deferral of decision making. And again, I think that's something we're seeing industry wide.
Okay, understood. And are the margins on the new signings where you want them today?
Yes, we've been pleased with The margins we're getting, especially as we are moving more towards those higher value modern workplace and DP and A.
Got it. One last one, just any thoughts on your long term targets and your ability to drive free cash flow and earnings, just especially with the new, I guess, preliminary expectations for the pension and contributions that you need to make?
Yes. So, that's a great question, John. This is Peter. What we tried to do in these remarks was to really highlight kind of our growth expectations Around those focus areas and now we have 3, right? We told you last quarter we were going to add 1 from ECS and now we have.
So we've kind of highlighted Our expectation through 2025 of those focus areas, we've tried to highlight what we expect in terms Of margin as well as revenue in those focus areas, we do expect in the Q1 of next year To have a full Investor Day. And so we do expect to go beyond just talking about those three focus areas And really giving our view of the company as a whole, going out 3 years or so. So you can Thanks, John.
Our next question here will come from Matthew Galinko with Maxim Group. Please go ahead.
Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Can we start with, I think you touched on the labor environment, but can you go a little bit more into depth with how you see that Rolling into your plans and expectations for 2023?
Matt, thanks very much for the question. So, our voluntary attrition Is down slightly in the 3rd quarter. So our voluntary attrition in the 3rd quarter is 18.9%, that's down about 0.3% sequentially. And that's down really across the board I don't think there's any geography that is significantly moving up while the rest is going down. So The geographies are a little different, but they're all kind of moving slightly down.
I think it's a combination of a couple of things. First, There has been an inflationary development in our sector that has affected our margins. But that does appear to be hitting a contrary Act right now. And that contrary act is a view of a recessionary environment both in geographies, in across industries and particularly in the tech industry. So rather than earlier this year where there was just kind of one force, which was inflation, there's kind of a push me, pull you now.
And you kind of have 2 different forces going against each other. And I think that is a more and the result of that is You're seeing a decrease in attrition. You're seeing a decrease in some of the wage pressure. You're seeing an increased understanding about the value I've actually staying with the company. And so we're seeing a modest decrease in attrition because of that.
Outside those macro environments, we have been very focused as a company at Really increasing our sense of community and belonging. We've really worked pretty hard, not just this year, but I'd say over the past couple of years Really creating an identity of what it means to be part of Unisys, why you would want to join, why you would want to stay. You noticed in the question about branding, I was very quick to say this is not just about Clients and prospective clients, although it is and it is not just about 3rd party administrators or advisors and analysts, although it is, it's also about our people. About making our people really feel part of something they're excited about. And we think that the new branding and marketing will help that.
Again, that's not overnight. That's been in the works for a long time. So we're working all angles of that. I hope, Matt, that that's helpful for you. It's certainly important to us.
Yes, Peter, thank you. That was very helpful. I guess my follow-up question would be, I think you talked about 1 cross sell or sizable cross sell. I think that went from DWS To CA and I, but can you back and maybe cover What the genesis of the cross sell was, how you identify opportunities to cross sell and what the pipeline looks like For those sorts of deals?
Hey, Matt, it's Mike. I'll take that one. Thank you for the question. Look, I think in general, if we talk about cross sell, we're really talking about a cross BU embedded and it's primarily Between CA and I and DWS, if I look at the data set, Roughly about 30% of our business is already in a cross sell arena. So when we look at our client base Cross sell opportunity is in CA and I.
So and we specifically have, I'll say early entry offerings In either of those scenarios, right? So if you're an existing CA and I client, we have early entry offerings in DWS and vice versa. So the targeted approach is really generated at the client level through white space, looking at what we're doing well And what the entry, I'll say offering is for the cross sell opportunity. As you well know, that cross So opportunity creates a better margin profile, a stickier client and a happier client, right? So there is a tremendous amount of opportunity embedded in our current client base to continue doing that considering we've only got 30% So we think that's a big part of our strategy going forward.
Yes. And What I would add to that is we've been aware of that for a while. We've obviously been attempting For a while to get clients to use more than one of our business units, we do find in general, at least the last time we did this analysis, That client and it was a few years ago that we did it, the clients that have more than one business unit tend to be more profitable and tend to be stickier, if you will. But the work we have done this year really has taken that to a new level. And Underneath what Mike is talking about and you saw him really rush to answer that question because he's been so involved in that.
So Mike, do you want to give just a little more update Kind of exactly what we've done really this year, because you say it better than I, about how we really are focusing on that white space. Yes.
We've been talking about here is in our existing base. The interesting thing is the new logos that we've been signing throughout the year Are coming in multi BU. I would say at least on top of mind, the last 4 or 5 So it's really interesting to the way we're going to market and the connectivity between our solutions On the new logo side are almost naturally tied, so you get a multi BU relationship. And then it's the deeper focus in the white space analysis for the existing base. And as I mentioned, I think if you look at something like A cyber security offering that is locating rogue assets, that's an easy entryway into an existing DWS client That we want to begin to bring our CA and I offering into, right.
So there's a real strategy there. It's tailored to the client and what they already have and also tailored to whatever their renewal schedule looks like And how we want our entry into that client to look like. So it's A big focus of our selling team is a big focus of our client executives and our client delivery executives and we've got All of those components aligned at this point, right. So we're really excited about what that can bring for 2023.
Thanks for the question.
Thank you.
And our next question is a follow-up from Jon Tanwanteng with CJS Securities. Please go ahead.
Hi, guys. I was just wondering about the ECS segment. You mentioned that the license renewals are Coming down over the next couple of years. I was wondering how much pricing power you have there, just because it seems essential to their businesses on the system. Just help me understand how you set the pricing every year for this?
Yes. Just to be clear, and I'm going to defer to Deb on this. I think we are expecting lower L and S revenue next year, but then slightly higher L and S revenue in 2024 2025.
Yes, that's right.
And I think Deb gave you some specific numbers on that. It really is tied to the Expected license renewal cycle and I want to underline the word expected. We don't always know how that's going to work. There are, as we've had this year, some clients that we thought we're going to renew next year that are renewing this year. There are so many Variables that go into that, we cannot understand all of those in advance, but it's the best we can do.
With respect to pricing power, I think I'll defer that one to Mike. I will say that it is complicated. And we think we know the clients pretty well. We think we know the value of what we're bringing to them pretty well. And many of these clients have been our clients for a very long time.
And we want them to stay our clients for a very long time. And we really treat them like an extended relationship.
It's not a transactional relationship. Mike? Yes. Look, and John, I would say that the pricing has held for sure. In fact, in some cases, we've been able to Drive some of that pricing up, but I think what Peter just closed there with is this is not a Let's gouge the client and go that route.
We're actually looking at the penetration to those ClearPath Forward clients in another way. So not only are we able to maintain the pricing related to the licensing, but we're using that as an entry to Talk about application modernization, managed services of applications that are modernized, managed services related to the ClearPath Forward ecosystem, right. So there's a lot of other opportunity that we can grow that relationship, again, make it stickier and not I have to just deal with it from a perspective of we need to increase price every time. So I think we've been pretty consistent with the pricing model. We get our normal, I'll say cost of living increase type of thing.
And again, we're really looking at ancillary services as a means to continue to grow that base.
Got it. That's helpful. Did you say what your expectations were for that application and services side just in terms of growth rate?
We did. And I'd tell you that.
It was low single digits in 'twenty four and I think double digits in 25 is
the company. I think it was go ahead, Deb, the specific one.
Yes. For Rev, we said we expected it to be about 40% of revenue in 2025. I don't know if we gave a revenue growth
We did. We did. And so that's Yes.
When we gave Q3 revenues and sales then.
Let me pull that, Matt, because In my remarks, I just want to make sure that I give it to you exactly.
It's okay. We can take
a follow-up.
The margin was mid-twenty percent range.
Hold on. Anybody have that?
Yes. We said the 3 year CAGR was Actually 19% and we expect to grow as fast as I'm
sorry, that's DP and A.
I thought you asked
Yes, Matt, just a quick clarification. Are you asking for the SS and C part of ECS? I thought that's what your question was.
The non licensed part.
Yes. Okay.
I'm sorry. I thought you just PA and I.
And so for that, As I'm pulling my data out.
We said we expected to grow mid and high single digits Annually through 2025.
There we go. That's right.
I apologize.
Got it. Thank you. Sorry for the hard question.
Not at all. There's a lot of Yes,
we gave a lot of numbers.
We did.
We wanted to get more insight.
And again, we're hopeful that By breaking this out and really giving some very specific information on the three focus areas, that really gives you a good indication of where we are focusing on the company and how we're driving, but it does mean we've got a lot of numbers. And so I apologize in advance for that, but that is an effort To really provide more information to you.
No worries. It's all. Thank you.
And this concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Peter Altabef for any closing remarks.
I'd like to thank everyone for joining the call. I'd like to thank particularly the folks who asked questions that I thought Helped us enlighten everybody about the business and how the business is evolving. And I want to Welcome everyone to the next call in advance. And as always, we have a bunch of information on our Investor Relations website And really on our website in general, we put a lot of information on that website. And I will tell you that as We launched the new branding effort and campaign.
You will see changes in that website and I think you will be very inspired by the level of change and the way we're telling our story and some of the information we put on there. So I hope you pay some attention to that and You'll know it when you see it. Thanks again for joining us today.