Hi, and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us. My name is Ashley Owens, and I cover soft lines and internet retail here at KeyBanc. Today, I'm joined with Vince Holding, ticker VNCE. With me is CEO Brendan Hoffman and CFO Yuji Okumura. For those unfamiliar, Vince is a modern luxury apparel brand driving inspiration from its home state of California in the creation of elevated yet understated pieces. The brand reaches customers through retail, e-commerce, and wholesale, and continues to focus on product craftsmanship and an elevated but cohesive point of view. We will get started shortly, but for anyone who may have questions during our presentation, please feel free to write them in the chat box below in your Zoom meeting, and we will make sure we get to them. So with that, Brendan, Yuji, thank you for having me or thank you for joining us today.
Yeah, thanks for having us, Ashley.
Thank you.
Great. So maybe just to start, can you frame where the business is today coming off a strong third quarter? What drove the 6% top-line growth across both channels, and what do you think resonates most with the customer?
Yeah, you know we were thrilled with our Q3 results and the continuation into Q4. It was really across the board, and it starts with product. You know that's what Vince, as you mentioned in your introduction, what we're all about, and you know both across men's and women's, and so specifically for Q3, you know we were successful across all our channels, e-commerce stores and our wholesale channels, and I think what drove it was the fact that the price changes that we took related to tariffs, which overall were about 6%, a little bit higher in women's, we didn't see a unit drop off, and you know that's pretty thrilling and exciting that the consumer continues to see what a great value we are, even you know at slightly raised prices. We did it very strategically, very systematically. It wasn't across the board. It went item by item.
You know, and I think it's as we compare ourselves or as the consumer compares us to our competitors, brands like Theory, Rag & Bone, and Veronica Beard, who also had to raise prices. You know, kind of that value proposition that we offer held true. And you know, I think we're also benefiting as luxury has just gotten so overpriced, more and more people looking at the contemporary part of the business. And then we had some other things around dropship and e-commerce that clearly drove business, but really exciting with the way everything's trending right now.
Maybe just to dive a little bit deeper on that with you making comments about the pricing holding and units staying flat, what does that tell you about the brand's value proposition and how consumers view Vince?
Yeah, well, you know we've always said that our best, you know we have a broad consumer base, but our best consumer is really that luxury shopper who is shopping brands that have similar looks and feels like Brunello Cucinelli, Loro Piana, The Row, but they basically have an extra zero at the end of their price point. And so always in my first tenure here, which was from 2015- 2020, and now as I've come back over the last almost year, we continue to resonate best with that consumer who can see that we're a value, even when others find $400 or $500 expensive for a cashmere sweater, it's not when you're shopping these other brands. And so I think that you know despite the price changes, we still hold up very well against other places that they're shopping.
And you know, one of the things that is a North Star for us is the quality of the product. Always has been. The calling card of Vince is the quality and the size integrity. And you know, as we had to very quickly scramble to resource product given the tariffs, that was something that we weren't going to compromise on. And really pleased to see, as the goods now hit the floor, that we were able to accomplish that because that's something the customer dings you on pretty quickly in a brand like ours.
Then further, your D2C momentum was another standout in the quarter with stronger conversion, higher AOV, and the e-commerce refresh. Just what were the enhancements from your perspective that really made the biggest difference?
Yeah, I mean DTC is always how I get the best handle on how our brand is being received because it's reflected in the manner that we intended to. You know we have great wholesale partners, but sometimes there can be other noise around things going on there that could influence performance. I think you know what stood out for us, as I mentioned, the price points being so well received. We had at the same time done a site refresh on our e-commerce site and really elevated the look and feel of the site. We did some, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to lower my shades, sorry. Suddenly decided to get right here in Manhattan.
Yeah.
So, you know, we did a site refresh that there were some things that were consumer facing just in terms of the imagery. Some of the, we put up a cashmere guide. We added in some AI on some of our product pictures that animated them. So things that the consumer would notice, then other things behind the scenes, you know, just around user experience that just made the site a little bit faster, a little bit more efficient, that just provides a better customer service and consumer experience. And so I think all those benefited us in Q3 as well as, you know, something we can talk more about, the addition of dropship to our offering.
Yeah, I definitely want to touch on dropship a little bit later, maybe just to stay on product. You know, what in some of the price increases you discussed earlier as well, but what allowed customers to absorb the higher prices so seamlessly, and how does that influence your approach to design and quality going forward?
Yeah, well, hopefully they didn't really notice it. You know, I mean, there's certain natural prices. You know, if you raise something from $450- $485, I'm not so sure that's so noticeable as when you reach certain price points. So again, I think the fact that we did it so surgically was a big piece of it. That being said, we also saw great momentum in our over $500 price points and our over $1,000 price points, that, you know, less about the price changes we made and more just about some of the elevation we've added to the product offering, you know, things around leather, shearling, and the consumer didn't show any price resistance to some of these more elevated price points. And obviously that helps the bottom line as well.
And then you've restarted momentum in licensed categories like suiting, handbags, and then I think you mentioned you saw traction in denim collaborations during your earnings call. But how do you think about where partnerships make sense versus where Vince should build capabilities internally?
Yeah, so you know we're in the unique situation, although becoming less unique with Authentic Brands Group being the owner of 75% of our IP. I say less unique because they seem to be on a buying spree and doing this with more and more companies, but they've been great partners. And so you know they really have the final say on these additional categories. But that being said, they do it very much in partnership with us. I don't want to speak for them, but we're kind of their most luxurious brand, and so they're very respectful of keeping the brand integrity and making sure the team and the creative team is aligned with these new categories and involved in the ultimate sign-off of the designs. But shoes was a license we always had that was legacy to what we had prior to the ABG deal.
But they've started to license out things like handbags, accessories, belts, tailored clothing, things that we had talked about in the past, but just never actually executed for a variety of reasons. And you know this is what ABG does, and they do it very well. And so far, it's really been accretive to the business in the sense that it provides, well, one, we get a royalty stream because we own 25% of the IP. It creates more brand awareness. I mean, for example, I was at a big Bloomingdale's out in Roosevelt Field on Black Friday, and I was in the men's Vince pad, and I looked over and saw another Vince sign on the wall and realized it was the men's clothing, the tailored clothing, the suits that they'd launched with Bloomingdale's that we were now getting credit for.
So you know it provides that additional brand awareness. But then in terms of our own DTC, I keep teasing dropship, and we'll talk about that in a minute, I'm sure. But I think it just provides an additional opportunity to service the customer. I mean, how many cashmere sweaters do you need? Hopefully a lot. But if then you see a handbag or a shoe or a belt that catches your eye in the store, it just is an added purchase that drives up our average order value. So and we've always thought our founders, Rea and Christopher, are no longer in the business. Always we're looking for how to add in other categories because it just provides a more textured and layered experience for the consumer. So really pleased that now with ABG, we're fast-tracking that.
Great. And then, to your point, yes, we will move on to dropship now, but.
Right. And I'm sorry, Ashley, mentioned denim collaboration, so you know, denim is something that, you know, we've done off and on in the past. It is a nuanced business, you know, that provides a little bit of a specialty kind of expertise that we have done in the past. But knowing that we had a lot of priorities right now and weren't ready to invest in a full denim business, we partnered with Citizens of Humanity, one of the best out there, to bring in denim and offer it to the consumer. And so that launched in Q3 and, you know, has done quite well. And again, it just gives the consumers another reason to buy something different as they're in our store online.
Great, so now switching over to dropship, but your comments were some of the most enthusiastic, I think, that investors had heard from you on the last call. First four to five weeks were spectacular. What surprised you the most maybe to start? And then you touched on this a little bit already, but shoes were Phase I, hinted at rolling into other ABG-supported categories quickly. How do you see dropship evolving in 2026, both in assortment breadth and as a risk-free way for you to test into areas you might not have procured directly?
Yeah, so I mean dropship is nothing new. It's been around for a while. We offer dropship to certain of our customers like Nordstrom's and such, and but it was we had to upgrade the technology to fully take advantage of it, and so just what it means very simply is with a licensed partner like Caleres, we don't actually have to buy the goods six months in advance, take the inventory risk. We just are able to take their entire catalog of Vince offering, put it up on our website, and then draw from their inventory, and so it's virtually risk-free for us, much more efficient. But what surprised me was how much business we did.
You know if you had asked me going into it, I would have said, yeah, it'll be helpful around the margin because certain things that we size out of, we'll be able to draw on their inventory. And we did. But what was the big aha was there's a lot of shoes we don't buy from them because we have to be prudent and edit the collection. Yet when we exposed them to our customer, they were some best sellers. And these were things that were a little bit more fashion-forward in some cases. These were things that maybe were a little bit dumbed down in other cases, but all of it resonated with the consumer.
And you know we haven't quoted the volume, but I will just say I made the team check a couple of times that it was correct because I thought there was an extra zero at the end of what they were giving. So it was exponentially higher than what we had done in the shoe business the prior year or any year up until now. And so that should just continue. I mean, we're only four or five weeks in as the business continues. And at the same time, as you suggested, we'll start to launch other categories in the spring, you know, handbags, men's suits, belts. And it actually now is extra motivation for us to really work and push ABG to find other categories because we have this really compelling revenue opportunity. So you know Swim is something else they're licensing out.
They've talked about Baby, maybe someday Home. I mean, there's really, you know, there are other categories we've tried in the past, like Optical or Fragrance, that we just didn't have the clout to do that, you know, if you know anything about ABG. They have the clout to do just about anything they want, and fortunately, they're putting a lot of their time and energy around Vince.
Great. Turning focus onto stores, you opened Nashville and Sacramento and continue to see strong performance in London. Early reads from across those stores, and how do you think about their halo to the digital business?
Yeah, so as you said, we opened up Nashville and Sacramento in the quarter. These were kind of experimental in the sense that they're smaller markets than we traditionally have been in. You know we are mostly in gateway cities, not that Nashville and Sacramento aren't, but they're not quite the same as New York, LA, Chicago, and Miami. So they're a bit experimental, but you know we had seen some nice e-commerce traffic down there. So it's still early days, but we're very hopeful that we'll have successful brick-and-mortar stores there. As you alluded to, we'll get a lift out of our e-commerce business in those areas and really that it can open up opportunities in other smaller cities to have events because you know while we're not saturated in these gateway cities, you know we're pretty well represented.
Right now, as I look at our store base, we have 60 stores, 46 full price, 14 outlets, two of those full price in London. I don't see our store base changing much. I mean, we'll close some, we'll open some, but we'll continue to be very opportunistic. We certainly aren't shying away. We love our retail stores. As I mentioned, it's where we can get the best representation of ourselves. We also, you know we've been in situations over the years where you know we've let rent get too high and we're going to be much more disciplined and prudent now and look for the opportunities. You know, and that includes opportunities overseas. I mentioned we have the two stores overseas, both in London.
We've had one in London for about six, seven years, but we opened one up in Marylebone earlier this year that's just doing fantastic. You know we have a big wholesale presence in London, so we think it enhances that. So you know there could be opportunities in other gateway cities you know around the world, Paris as an example, where you know if it makes sense and we can get it to pencil out, being able to open up a store to do business, but also to be marketing for us as we look to expand overseas.
Great. Maybe just to kind of close out on this channel strategy conversation, wholesale mentioned in the call grew with some timing benefits, but also better register performance. One, how broad-based was the strength across partners? And then further, how do you support partners in maintaining that full-price sell-through and brand integrity you've established? Oh, you're on mute.
Sorry about that. We have great relationships with the majors. You know I come from that world, so I've always been able to speak the language, and I think that's been helpful, but you know we are one of the biggest brands at Nordstrom's, and you know if you go into just about any Nordstrom, we have the best floor space in women's, usually at the top of the escalator, and men's has grown to now where we have full presentations as opposed to just kind of a four-way or rack. We did an event with Nordstrom two weeks ago in LA, an activation event with their fashion director where we invited our best customers, they invited their best customers, and a lot of influencers. We did a similar event last night here in Manhattan just in our own store, working on one for Bloomingdale's in March.
So, you know, we see the majors, the department stores as great. Well, first of all, it's very profitable business for us when done right and growing. And it's great brand exposure given how big they are. So it will continue to be a very important part of our channel strategy. It's a little bit over half our business right now. We grew up as a native wholesale brand, and direct-to-consumer was something that was added over the last 10 or 12, 10 or 15 years. You know, and then it's no secret that you know Saks and Neiman Marcus, in terms of their merger and integration, are having some growing pains, and we're clearly feeling those growing pains. We continue to be supportive of them. We need them. The industry needs them. We have confidence in the leadership team.
But that's certainly creating a bit of a headwind for all of us right now as they figure out how to get things stabilized.
All right. Let's move on to something that I think still remains front of mind for many of us, which would be tariffs and sourcing. So I think just to start off here, tariffs had 260 basis points or so drag on margin and then freight another about 100. What has worked best in mitigating those headwinds so far, and where do you still believe that you have levers left?
Yeah, well, I mean, you know when tariffs first came out, Liberation Day, I guess, it was very sobering for us given that we were over 60% sourcing out of China and much higher than that in our women's collection. And when the tariffs were something like 150%, it was a real embargo. And so you know we just had to pause all shipments at port while we tried to figure this out. Fortunately, we have a very seasoned team. I mean, one of the things that attracted me to come back to Vince was that most of the leadership team was in place that I had assembled. And as I like to say, I'm both insulted that they stayed and now very gratified that they did stay because they're a world-class team and they're five years smarter and more mature and more seasoned than they were when I left.
And so when tariffs hit, you know, I think six years ago, they would have all been in my office asking, "What do we do?" Now I just got emails about where they were going around the world to get boots on the ground to figure out with our partners how we mitigated these tariffs and balanced our sourcing. And so they took very quick action, which paid real dividends for us to get back with minimal disruption. And so going forward, you know, not exactly knowing where these tariffs are going, and it's a bit like Whack-A-Mole, you know, we think it's prudent not to be as overly reliant on any one country. And even as China was so important to us, fortunately, a lot of our partners there recognize the same thing. So they've opened up sister factories in other parts of the world.
And so we've been able very quickly to move our sourcing as we end 2025 and go into 2026, focusing as always on quality and the integrity of the sizing and what we deliver to the consumer. So how we mitigated it was rebalancing our sourcing, getting some pricing concessions from our suppliers, eating some of it ourselves. And as you indicated, you could see the headwinds as it impacted our margin. And then the pricing increases that we've discussed. And so as we look forward, you know if the tariffs stay where they are, it will be a little bit more of the same. You know I don't want to say we'll continue to raise prices, but I am you know encouraged by the reaction so far. So maybe there is some opportunity around the edges. We'll continue to look for you know more efficient sourcing.
But you know I think we're assuming the tariffs are where they are. And so we now have a base that we were able to stabilize much quicker than we imagined. We'd only be given quarterly guidance because it was hard to see past each quarter. But you know I think now we're back in a position where the business is becoming more predictable in this new reality.
Just on tariffs too, and some of the tariff-inflated carrying values, you know inventory was a little bit higher year over year due to that. Just you know how would you rate your comfort levels with the composition and freshness heading into the fourth quarter and early 2026?
I'll start and I'll defer to Yuji, but our inventories are very current. You know and so that's the thing I always look at is, are we building up aged inventory? And we are not. You know the team has done a great job you know prior to me joining, getting the inventories back in line. I know you know like many companies during COVID, there was some glut of inventory. For us, you know our safety net is always the off-pricers, particularly TJ Maxx. If we do find ourselves with a little bit too much inventory, they're great partners to us. We make money when we sell to them. And most importantly, nobody has ever complained to me about seeing us at TJ Maxx, which tells me we're keeping the balance and the integrity of the brand.
But Yuji, I don't know if you want to top that off at all.
No, yeah. I mean, I think Brendan covered most of it, but you know our inventory level is probably the healthiest it's been in a long time, and even I think when you look at our prior releases as well, like some of our explanations on the margin expansion has to do with like inventory reserve releases because you know we don't have to reserve as much on obsolescence reserve and you know other lower-to-cost-to-market type reserves, so you know our inventory level is really at a good place.
Great. And I think that's a great segue into just talking about the rest of the financials and margin structure. So maybe just to start, on gross margin, you've offset some pressure with the better pricing and lower discounting. Just looking forward, what levers are most durable?
Yes. Yeah, go ahead. No, you take it.
No, okay. Sure. I mean, you know I think as going back even like before to 2024, you know we had our transformation program that really focused on quality of sales and improving our margin. And you know we made great you know progress with that during 2024, where we were able to expand year-over-year margin expansion by like 4% between 2023- 2024, which really helped us you know set the stage and be able to go against this current tariff navigation. When you look at where the levers are, I think you know we were still in the middle of that. I think we have other levers to pull in terms of overall like the classification and merchandising strategy, as well as you know trying to figure out the right costing structure.
I don't think we're necessarily also done figuring out all the other potential sourcing possibilities as well for our products. As Brendan said, I think it's important for us to continue to be well-diversified in where we source our products, just given today's climate. So I think there's always going to be levers to play, and we're constantly looking at that.
Great. And then on SG&A, I think it increased modestly with compensation, sorry, in the marketing. How do you balance reinvestment with protecting that profitability, especially given the momentum that you're seeing in the underlying business?
Yeah, I mean, it's at times, I think I probably overly protect the bottom line at the expense of investing in the business. It's always tough to know what the right thing to do is. But I think given how strong the product is right now and the moment we're having, and I think contemporary in general is having a nice moment. If you look at Bloomingdale's results last week, up 9%, I think they're largely contemporary-based. So we've seen some nice results in some investments in mid-funnel marketing in our e-commerce business that I think also contributed to the quarterly results. So we'd like to be a little bit more aggressive at making those incremental investments, knowing that they have a payback. But at the same time, there are still headwinds out there, whether it be tariffs and some of the disruption in the department store world.
So I don't think we will be as aggressive as maybe some of the team would like us to be. But we certainly want to make sure that we are priming the pump here and able to drive some outsized gains. We have been in a kind of collared revenue of $290-$300 million for the last 10 years, give or take COVID. And we think we're not giving guidance yet today, but we really think 2026 is the opportunity to break through that.
And then just to round this out with the 4Q EBITDA margin guidance, I think up 2%-4%, reflecting some ongoing tariff pressure. But when investors think about Vince's normalized earnings power, what do you believe is the most misunderstood?
Yeah, I mean, I can take that. You know I think when you look at our normal earnings power, I think it's a little bit a nuanced question because the new normal is the current state, right, with tariffs. So depending on where that goes, I think some of that answer might be a little different. But when you talk about, you know I think where we see an opportunity, like as Brendan said, you know there are these dropship capabilities and other license unlock when you think about the fact that we don't have a significant inventory risk related to that, right? So that's really going to help some of the margin lift in terms of potential there.
And then you know I think we continue to, you know as I mentioned, continue to work with the sourcing, but also, like you mentioned, some of the freight cost that's rising, right? And that's partially because we're kind of assessing the lead time that it takes to get here in terms of some of the sourcing changes. But as we get smarter and as we get learnings from it, I think we'll keep adjusting in terms of what we can air and what we can ship that will also naturally help with our margin profile.
Yeah, I think a couple of things, you know it's related to what I said, top of what Yuji said. If we can break through this $300 million barrier and add some revenue, I think the flow-through will be quite compelling. So I think that for 2026 is an opportunity for us. I think we have some operational efficiencies we can get. You know as we see what AI can do to some of the business functions, we're looking at that. We are looking at investing in a new ERP system. We do a lot of manual things around here. So as we think beyond 2026, a new ERP system should make us more efficient and improve the gross margin.
So, I think there are a number of things on the top and bottom line that we're at this inflection point now and ready to do, including figuring out how we can leverage our platform for things beyond Vince. And that's something that, you know, we've been having conversations with people like ABG, our partners. You know, how else can we have this great machine here. We have Vince in such a good place, and we're not going to take our eye off the ball. But we do have some bandwidth that, you know, with somebody like ABG, we can be a great partner in other areas too. That could be another revenue stream for the holding corp, as I say, with Vince.
Great. We have about a minute and a half left. So maybe just to close, taking a step back, what excites you most about the next chapter for Vince?
You know for me, you know again, having been gone for five years and now been back for nine, 10 months, the brand of the business has never been in a better place. You know we have continuity on the design side. Caroline Belhumeur has been here for seven years along with Marie Fogel, who is our head of production and merchandising. You know we coupled them up, as I said, seven years ago, along with Jill Norton, who runs our commercial arm, and you know when you have that sort of continuity around product, it could get stale, or you can have a team that continues to evolve and learn and elevate the business, and for sure, we've done the latter, and you know the first couple of years I was here during my first iteration, we went through a couple of design changes.
And those are just horrible because you know it's like 15 months before the product comes to market. So you're in limbo not knowing if it's going to hit the mark. Generally, the new designer wants to make some changes. And so everybody's kind of on pins and needles. And I think we've seen that with our competition. And so the continuity we've had, and as I said, the seasoning of this team, beyond just those three, as I mentioned earlier, I think is what excites me for the future of Vince and the future of Vince Holding Corp.
Great. I think that's a great place to leave it for this afternoon. But thank you both for the time today, and good luck with the rest of holiday.
Thank you, Ashley.
Thank you.