Good afternoon, and welcome to the Wynn Resorts Second Quarter 20 10 Earnings Call. Joining the call on behalf of the company today are Steve Winn, Mark Shore, Linda Chen, John Stremp, Matt Maddox, Andrew Paschal, Scott Peterson and on the phone, Ian Kauflin and Robert Gazzamo. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. Now, I would like to turn the call over to Mr. Mattick.
Please go ahead, sir.
Thank you, and good afternoon, everyone. Before we get started, I just need to remind everybody, we will be making forward looking statements under the Safe Harbor Federal Securities laws, and those statements may or may not come true. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Steve Win for opening comments.
Not much to say that isn't explained on our press release except this. Business is slightly better in Las Vegas. We're noticing a little improvement because we're working on our hotel mix and we opened up the Beach Club on May 30, which was right at the in the last section of the quarter, but that's helped and been profitable and is ahead of related nightclub called Surrender. It had a minimal impact on our other clubs. So that segment of our business is quite incredible in Las Vegas.
And that's in sharp contrast to the softness in the market. The nightclub and younger person recreational market represented by Trist, Blush, Excess, Surrender and the Beach Club, that's a business that could do over $150,000,000 for us with a profit margin in the mid-40s. So we're really happy about that. We opened up Encore on April 22 or 21. So we had the benefit of it for all but 40 days.
Its impact on our operations in Macau was interestingly enough accretive. There's a number that I've mentioned on these conference calls in the past that I consider to be the critical number in understanding the gaming industry in any given jurisdiction. That number we refer to as fair share. And you measure the percentage of equipment you have in a market like the Strip or Macau, and then you measure the percentage of revenue. If you have the same percentage of revenue as you do equipment, then you have your fair share and that's a one to 1.
To the extent that that number is less than 1, then you are a dormitory for your neighbors and a net donor to the neighbor. And if it's more than 1, then you are a net receiver and you've made a dormitory out of your neighbors. Prior to the opening of our Encore facility, we had 8.5 percent of the equipment and 10.5% or and 13% of roughly of the revenue. After we didn't add much equipment, we went to 10% of the equipment, but we went to 17% of the revenue or 16% or 17%. Our ratio before Encore was 1.6 and I think that was by far the best in the market with our 500 tables now.
Interestingly enough, we would have been very happy if we dropped down to 1.5. In fact, we went to 1.62. So not only do we add more equipment, but it increased our fair share ratio slightly. And that meant that we that our tables and our facility were well received. And that's of course gratifying for us, biggest year in the history of this company or any other company in my 42 years.
So we're very happy. We had a board many minutes ago in this company and after months of work, I was very proud to show the Board of Directors the Cotai project, which is now assembled. We now know what it's going to look like, what its components will be, where its romance and excitement will come from and how it will attempt and I think very successfully attempt to gain the upper hand competitively in a very competitive market, which is Cotai and Macau. So all of that, we're underway now. We're finishing the back of the house and we'll be starting the drawings for the foundation now almost in a matter of weeks.
So we're a little ahead of schedule in what we where we thought we would be in Cotai. The design development period went much faster than it's gone in my career in the past when we did all those other hotels like Golden Nugget, Golden Nugget of Atlantic City, Beau Rivage, Treasure Island, Mirage, Mirage, Bellagio, Wynn, Encore in Las Vegas, Wynn in Macau and Encore in Macau. This was the best job and it went the best job and it went the quickest. So I mean, you can count up all those properties, but maybe the combined experience that our design all of our
design team has been together
all that time. And this time, all that time. And this time, interestingly enough, we use a different approach. We included in the design process, the key operating executives in the casino and other departments, just consulting them, but having them at the table, making the very meticulous AB decisions, Designing one of these hotels, these massive places is a whole myriad endless chain of AB, yes, no decisions. And without them, it wouldn't be possible to get where we got as quickly as we did.
And it was a very satisfying process. So we're excited about our new project and we're all deeply involved with the next stage of getting it ready for groundbreaking. Those are my observations in general about what's happened in the last 90 days. We hope for continued improvement in Las Vegas or let me put it differently. We hope that we'll get smarter in Las Vegas in dealing with the peculiarities of this market and this very, very mercurial national economic economy that we're living with.
It's the national economy and the political environment in the country as we head up to the elections is very, very touchy. And it is impacting all businesses. Today, we got a report at the various of our Board committees meetings about the impact of the the us what we should be doing or what standards we have to live to States of America that has a clue of where the Financial Reform Act will lead and what it really means in spite of the fact that there are undoubtedly some OPEC interference with business, very much like the healthcare bill. So we're living through this along with the rest of America and you can decide whether you want to be pessimistic or optimistic. You can decide whether the glass is half full or half empty.
I'm at the point where I hope we just don't tip the glass over. So let's take questions.
First question comes from the line of Shaun Kelley with Bank of America Merrill Lynch.
Hi, good afternoon everyone. I guess Steve my first question is really it's such a notable inflection your comment about Las Vegas. So maybe you could give us a little bit more color on specifically what you're seeing and are you seeing the ability to maybe actually begin to raise room rates at all in the market?
Andrew Pascoe is here and that's exactly what he's doing. You want to talk about it, Andy?
Sure. So, I think we've been looking at every segment of the market and we're finding some modest improvement and we're able to actually start to improve our rates. We've become less dependent on the leisure business and promotional segment. That's the segment where we're aggressively out there marketing and stimulating demand. And we're trading that business a little stronger kind of convention and group business, which last year averaged somewhere around 12.5% of our mix and is trending closer to 17%, 18% now.
So I don't know that this one data point is something that we can rely upon but we're a little bit encouraged and we hope that we'll continue to see some modest improvement through the balance of
the year. Linda, Chen is here from Macau. As I say, she'd be Vegas and what she thinks that's all about?
Well, I think Asian business has decreased, but probably sustained the best among all segments of business. Thanks for to I mean in Asia, in China and the cross marketing that we experienced and because of the new customers, we also be able to meet because of the Macao. So we get the benefit of that in our statement.
We're getting referral business.
Yes. And also the brand building side of this referral is we're getting our name out in Argentina, all of China, all of Asia, that people want to come and see the latest property and they have a long enough break?
Well, those are the nightclubs, better room rate, sustaining interest in our casino by the Asians has helped us. We began this is more Q3 than 2nd, but we began the remodel of the 2,000 700 rooms that has Wynn Las Vegas because they're 5 years now since it opened. And thank goodness, the rooms were fully utilized with high 90s occupancy and it's time to remodel them and consistent with our personality, we've upgraded them. And I think between the regular rooms, the suites and the villas, we're going to spend $99,000,000 between now and January, February, Andy? April.
April will be done by April. And the way we do that is we take out several floors at a time. And then each week, we release 1 floor back into service completed and we take another floor into service and this slug of rooms that are under refurbishment moves up the building or down, you start at the bottom there. Start at the top and move down. Start at the top and move down, yes.
We're also remodeling the baccarat game starting in October, it will be ready for Christmas, New Year's. And we're making our baccarat pit much sexier. And those are the Lake of Dreams restaurant. And we've also creating a new restaurant experience at a place called the Lakeside Cafe, which is on the Lake of Dreams that heretofore has been known as Daniel Balu, but we've decided on a concept that we think is very cool and that restaurant will open up by October. And those are the the capital expenditures that are underway.
And the wind is going to be all spruced up from the golf course all the way to the strip by the spring. And it was right. One of the things that's happening here as the market softened and many of these companies with very bad capital structures neglected their properties rather severely. And the properties are all shown here. They're showing the lack of capital expenditures.
The public, of course, takes note of this immediately. There's no secrets. The minute the place is not clean or it's getting threadbare, it has a very bad effect on your clientele. You go in the opposite direction, take advantage of our capital structure and make sure that we're pretty and all fluffed up all the time.
And just maybe just one more if I could. Obviously, Cotai is a huge important project for the company. Any sense on just when you might be willing to or ready to share that design and development with the investment
community? Good question. And I didn't expect to be able to say this, but I'm hoping I'm hoping that we will have a lot more to talk about at either the next quarterly meeting or the one after. I something. But we know what it's going to be now and how it works.
We have some technical issues to resolve about back of the house and camp queuing and energy plants, stuff like that that make the building work. But it turned out to be great. And left us after we're all done with our best shot with a second sight that we didn't think we're going to have on the property. That's my answer.
Great. Thank you.
Your next question comes from the line of Joe Greff with JPMorgan.
Good afternoon, everyone. It's Joe Greff from JPMorgan. Two questions. 1 is on Las Vegas and it's great hearing you're raising room rates here. Are you seeing any improvement in spend per occupied room outside of room rates?
I'm going to let Andrew answer that, but I want to point out that at the time when we decide to raise room rates and it's happening successfully, Within 3 weeks after making that decision, we also reduced the available inventory associated with this remodel, which gave us a perfect opportunity to do it because under normal circumstances, we're going to take 15% or 16% of the inventory out until we're done. And so that gave us some more leverage why we could lean on the rate. Andy, you can talk about the spend per room.
And the short answer is no, no material change. I think we're going to see just the benefit of a better mix. So, we're displacing promotionally oriented or leisure and more kind of value conscious customers with people that hopefully just spend a little bit more. So we're not seeing by segment an increase in spend per room night, but we're going to see some improvement just because of a shift in mix.
With one caveat, Andy. I would have to say that we have a little trouble attributing all this extra money that falls in around here from the nightclubs with our rooms. And I think Andrew is hesitant about putting giving that a big break when it comes to revenue per occupied room night. But I think there probably is some relationship there.
Andrew, it sounds like from your comments that we should be taking out 400 rooms per period between now and April. Okay.
That's correct. The standard rooms will be done in January and then the suites are going to take a little bit longer and they'll extend into April. We didn't start the suite, so. Come mid January, you're right, used about 400 rooms through January and then we'll start to phase back from there. But that's a safe number.
And then on Cotai, Steve or Ian, maybe you can enlighten us, what exactly is the process, especially with respect to government approvals and maybe a timeline there? And then Steve, your comment earlier about a second site on the property, so we should be thinking about Cotai as having a Phase 1 and then a Phase 2 component?
Well, the government the process with the government is underway and long standing and communication is complete and perfect between us and it's just the grinding of procedure and it won't interfere with our timing. We've got several months to go before we can break ground on the foundation. And I'm anticipating support from the government as we have in the past. As I said on a previous call and I did say also when we opened Encore, because this question is asked of me repeatedly, freezes on games, freezes on casinos, how does that impact you? And I said, the way it works in Macau and the People's Republic of China, the government decides what's best for the country.
And they use people and experts and companies of various description to get what they want. When they develop a program and a plan, they give complete support and they give direction to the people that they use to execute the program. My company and our although it's mostly Chinese and has Chinese ownership, our company is such a company.
We are
agents of change to make Macau more you're encouraged to proceed, you're always given the support that you're needed to be successful. And we are being The other side. When we finished design development, we found out that we had on the corner of our property, streets on both sides, 12 acres left over that we can use.
Is it still a 52 acre site or is it a 64 acre site?
It's a 52, I don't know, is it 52 or 54? 51.5. Yes. So there's 12 left over.
Got you.
Thank you, Ian. And it's critically situated. It's right across the street from MGM site. So it's a chance to expand and add other things that will make Macau more attractive and we'll explore those now that we're finished with our primary design.
Thanks, guys.
Your next question comes from the line of Mark Strawn with Morgan Stanley.
Hi. Just two really quick questions, one on Vegas and one on Macau. First on Vegas, talking about the room mix. I was wondering if you could share any details on what the cash occupancy looks like in Vegas, basically your paid occupancy less any conference to the casino and how that's been trending. And in Vegas sorry, in Macau, I'm wondering if you could just share any color on what July trends have looked like?
Andrew?
Yes. So we don't break out kind of the composition of cash versus comp based business. I'll just generally tell you that our cash based business is up year over year. And as far as the trends we're seeing in July, we see some further strengthening. So again, it's a modest improvement, but I think we've already spoken to it.
Same thing, Drew, in China.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from the line of Stephen Kent with Goldman Sachs.
Hi, good afternoon. Just a couple of things. First, maybe Andrew on if you could talk just a little bit how you're looking into the end of this year and into 2011 on holding off on bookings or holding back some volume given some of the price increases you're thinking and sort of how you're handling filling rooms with maybe holding off a little bit and getting better pricing? And then Steve, just on Cotai, could you just tell us a little bit more about who the target audience would be? Would it be more towards mass market, more towards a more affluent market?
And then finally, just round numbers on the cost on Cotai?
Not prepared to
give cost numbers yet until I budget and until the board ahead of my the people that run the Board. As far as what the place is in terms of its market position, I was in China for half of June and having worked on the hotel for quite some time, I thought it was time for me to check myself. And I got everybody that had anything to do with customers and the business in a big conference room and went around the room one person at a time and asked the very same question that you ask, who are we and what are we doing in Cotai? Where are we going? How are we going to present ourselves?
Where do we fit in, what should the public expect, because consistency and is very important in business, just as it is in life. So and I was really excited and very gratified that there are very diverse personalities in the group and they were relaxed and comfortable enough to express themselves. And what was really fascinating was that to the man and woman that were in the room, their men and women, every one of them in their own way said the same thing. Dance with the girl that you brought to the party or dance with the guy that brought you whatever that old antidote is. We know who we are.
We know what we do best, stick to what we do best, take advantage of Cotai and do it better than anybody. And that had been what Mr. DeRider Butler and I have been doing in our design development exercise to date. When I went to the people that work that I work with there that really run the place, that was their advice as well. So that did it and that ended the conversation.
We are going beyond what we've been before in appealing to people of good taste judgment. And we're going to just build the most amazing hotel that anybody's ever seen. And it will be it will accommodate a lot of people that will have 1500 or between 1500 and 1600 rooms. Each of the rooms caters to a different segment. But in each case, the rooms are bigger and more beautiful than any we've ever built.
And that's saying a lot if you see Encore in Macau or Encore in Wynn. But we've gone a notch up in every respect and we also were able to take complete and total advantage of our experience. Even when we built Encore Macau, I made the point that that tower was built as a result of our experience in Macau and therefore was really pointed right where should be pointed and the results since it opened prove that. But we still had to live with our urban environment and the land that we had downtown on the Avenue 24th July or June 24th June, I always get that wrong. And this time, we had a blank sheet of paper.
We could do it from scratch, armed with the experience and the knowledge gained from that experience. And of things we could offer our customers are truly scrumptious. So we're very excited, but that's who we're going to be. We're going to be Wynn Resorts, Cotai. Wynn Cotai.
Not going to look like Sheridan or a Hilton or a different company. We're going to look like us. You know what to expect when I say that.
I mean, to
take the question on, do we hold back inventory. I think it's first I want to make sure that my tone isn't being misinterpreted. I've spoken to some modest improvement in the convention segment, but again, I don't want that to be misinterpreted as are being overly optimistic. So to answer your question directly, we don't hold back inventory. We look at the pace of demand by segment and then we price our hotel in order to capitalize on what we think is the opportunity.
If the demand is not there, then we tend to reduce the price and try and stimulate some demand and if it is, well then we're able to yield it up. But as far as just generally holding back inventory, that's not our practice.
And is it still are you booking essentially for the quarter or in the 3rd quarter or for the 3rd or 4th quarter? Is it still pretty short term?
No, no. We're booking through looking out anywhere from 6 to 8 quarters. So, there's a long tail on that, but we've had good healthy bookings in year for the year, not what we would have liked to have seen coming into the year, but in the convention segment, particularly, we're seeing some strengthening going into next year.
Okay, great. Thank you very much.
Welcome. Your next question comes from the line of Bill Lerner with Union Gaming Group.
Hey, guys. Question for Steve and then Andy, just a follow-up or a quick second follow-up. The first one is, Steve, you of course talked about the beginning of the room remodel in Vegas. What about the new rooms or the design of the new rooms in Vegas do you think will encourage folks to pay more per night?
Yes. It's a good question. Simple answer. Why ES?
Yes, meaning some of it. They'll like it more, they'll pay more. Good. Okay. And that's a there's nothing structurally changing about the rooms, it's just
No, it's re ragging, reaccessorizing.
Okay. And thank you. And then the follow-up, Andy, what's going on during the or after, I suppose, the Beach Club Day parts? I know it's the same demo that necessarily you're used to outside of the Victor's places. But what's going on in other elements of your property in food and beverage and retail and so forth?
Is there anything is there any lift there as a result? I know in a vacuum, those places are doing extremely well anyway, but
I want to correct you. When you say Victor's place, you're talking about our colleague, Victor Dre. Yes. Please remember that unlike our neighbors on both sides of the street, we don't lease anything. The excess belongs to Wynn Las Vegas.
Those are in house clubs. We make arrangements for incentive compensation for management, but those clubs are owned by us and the revenue belongs to us and the those are our clubs, those are our employees, that's our inventory, those are our internal accounting people and our cashiers. So I want to make that very clear. There are no leased clubs in this company. I know that intimately.
Okay. I didn't I don't want anyone to think that we rented out anything. The state of Nevada has had a fussy position about accountability, and I just want to keep us on the right side of that line.
Thanks, Steve. As far as kind of the ancillary benefit, we're seeing some lift in food and beverage, and we're going try and capitalize on that further. That's in part why we're reinventing and creating the Lakeside Grill. We're also doing another outlet, with Michael Morton, which is going to be a great new addition and I think it's going to appeal to both those outlets are going to appeal to that market that we're now tracking. I forgot you mentioned that.
So again, we're seeing good solid lift in the food and beverage outlets over at Encore. And I think with the
There's 2 new ones now. I forgot the Le Caves and Lakeside Grill. I left one out. When does Le Caves open,
Andrew? Early November.
Okay.
Great. And then a follow-up or the last one here, maybe this is for Andy. What are you seeing are you seeing anything reflective of the euro weakness? By that I mean the currency now. I know, of course, those trips, Europeans book trips further out than folks from regional places around the U.
S, of course. And I would think that strengthening your over time takes some time to play out. What are you seeing if anything, Andy?
We're not seeing anything. It's not materially affecting our business in any way.
There was a period when the euro was really up there around $1.58 There were some guys from Europe that were coming over here and thought they were playing with pesos. They were playing with dollars. And I can't say that we didn't get a little lift from that. Some of the Europeans really liked the cheap dollar when it came to gambling, because they were paying off at 60s they thought $0.67 on the dollar. Now that that volume has tightened, I don't know that it will hurt us or anything, but we have a lot of customers from the
Your next
Your next question comes from the line of Chris Woronka with Deutsche Bank.
Could we maybe get a little bit
of color just on the directional ramp up of Encore Macau throughout the quarter kind of both on the revenue and expense side and if you ended the quarter and any kind of imbalance in terms of revenues not being where you think they can get to but expenses being a little bit elevated just with pre opening and things like that? Thanks.
We carry most of the expenses going into the quarter. So our expenses weren't affected at all and we're meeting all the projections. Yes. We had everybody on payroll in the Q1. So it was just a nice fat pickup going on forward.
And if you look at the win per table in Encore, it actually outpaced Wynn Macau. So there wasn't a dilution in the revenue because Encore Yes,
they got quite nice and we're getting longer play.
Yes. We did a thing the corner there by Arc and we call it the Diamond Club, but it's really like Las Vegas, a high end pit. It's not non redeemable trips. It's not a junket room. It's 2 dozen games and 100 slot machines, I guess.
And we put a little noodle kitchen in there and a little high limit slot alcove in there. It's sort of a mini boutique casino. Well, we opened the damn thing one evening at 6:30 and to HKD500 to HKD1000.
Minimum 500, the average bet, so what 2,500?
So we got an average bet that's $600,000 $700 But we got a minimum bet of over $50 That's pretty good table limit even in anywhere for a non junket room.
Underrated play has gone from 61 minutes per player to 88.
Yes, Mark Shore is always into this, but our length of play went from 61 minutes to 88 minutes in that casino. Little things like that sounded sort of petite, but when you can go from 61 to 88 minutes on length of play, all kinds of good things happen, full percentage gets more powerful. A lot apt to be nitty gritty of the gambling business. Something happens and one of the places where it's reflected, if you've got your act together is in the length of play. People don't stay at the table if they're not happy.
And once they're happy in a place, then there's a tremendous amount of ancillary fall off from it. So that's what Encore gave us. And it's all a result of having learned lessons and profiting from your experience.
And one thing that I follow is the fair share that Steve talked about of 1 point six times. But if you look at our EBITDA share or our net income share, so how profitable is the business coming in the building, when the generates 25% of the EBITDA in the market and 40% of the net income. So, each one of our tables are probably going to be with peers. So, we're not buying the business. It's quite profitable business that's coming in.
Okay, great color. Thanks.
Your next question comes from the line of David Katz with Jefferies and Company.
Hi, afternoon all. While I have pretty much the whole team there, as we progress through the rest of this year in Macau and getting a sense for what the dynamics are in that market and how the carry through will be from the strong growth we've seen so far this year and started last year. Whatever thoughts you can share with us about what you may be looking at or what trends you may be looking at to get a sense for how the rest of this year is going to roll a top line perspective would be really helpful. And then I have one other quick question.
You like us to write a report for you? Okay. Sure.
And I'll let you.
I'm tired of the board meeting.
The one thing
that we don't have in Macau are forward booking trends like we do here in Las Vegas. So, to sit here and predict how future gaming revenues are going to be 6 months from now is actually quite difficult. I think it's very tied to the macro situation in Asia. All of the things that I track appear to be holding up quite well. It looks like a lot of the macro issues have come in for a soft landing people were worried about.
So for what it's worth, to me, it appears to be very stable.
I don't know Linda if you have any comments.
However, if you look at quarter to quarter, you're comparing to a strong quarter last year.
The comps get tougher in the back half
of the year.
So, the question is sequentially if things continue, they appear to be safe. Hey, Matt, a
minute ago, you made a statement about our share of the revenue and our profitability. Yes.
Repeat it, would you? So, we generate about 15% to 16% of the revenue in the Macao market on 8% of the product, 8% to 9%. But more importantly, we generate 25% of the EBITDA and 40% of the net income. So, the one thing you'll find about Wynn is our from our EBITDA to our free cash flow, we capture between 50% 75% of the EBITDA for our shareholders going to the equity. Now, there was one of
our neighbors who's got a great ambition in doing a big job, the sands. They released earnings yesterday and they had a $300,000,000 number for 3 or 4 places in Macau, 3 places. And we had $215,000,000 or $216,000,000 EBITDA has as much meaning as snow on top of Mount Everest. It's a worthless number, because you got to pay interest, you got to pay taxes depreciation is as real as the payroll. I just got through telling you what it cost to change the rooms and keep them fresh.
So you ask yourself what really is going on. So you subtract the cost of ferry boats, subtract the interest payment on the Q1 of both companies, whatever the depreciation is that both companies use. Just make it equal, whether it's a 40 year schedule or 10 year schedule, makes no difference to me. And you'll get to the fact that the money left over afterwards is greater with the smaller company in terms of Macau. Bigger ain't better, better is better because when you borrow all that money, you got to pay it back.
And when you build all those facilities, you got to depreciate them and take care of them. So you better damn well make sure that they carry their weight. Now I'm a big fan of the development in Cotai and the things that my competitors have done and they're making the future bright for Macau and I'm proud to be part of it and proud to be their neighbor. But when you're analyzing what's going on, don't get confused.
So we're a younger company than
the Sands and MGM. Steady or a little slower and it's the old hare and the turtle story. We're a little bit more like a turtle than a hare. But at the end of the day, we're going to build Macau and it's going to be the Cotai project and it's going to be a big increment to the wealth of our company. And we'll go somewhere else at that same time.
And when you take the 4 or 8 year difference in age between us and the sands or the 20 year difference between us, 16 year difference between us and MGM, processional way. And each of our properties will have the kind of deprecating them. But I am pointing out that we're a different kind of company and we're going to stay that way. And maybe we don't move quite as fast as the other guys, but we don't borrow money quite as flagrantly. We don't take on projects more that we can't really accept that myself in exchange for having security for my employees, predictability for my investors.
I'm willing to make that exchange. I'm willing to take longer to get where I want to go. And where I want to go is where we dominate the gaming industry in terms of quality and performance.
Thank you for that. If I can and you if I may say, you set up my follow-up question quite well, which is when we look at your balance sheet, which obviously works very favorably beyond the Cotai project, which lies ahead, what other financial strategies and maybe this is something more for Matt. Can you talk about where would you like your ultimate aggregate leverage to wind up where you're most comfortable and what other uses for your capital do you have?
I'm not sure that that's a strategy that is appropriate today. We're in a competitive environment. You know the shape we're in. We can go wherever we want and do whatever we want. That's clear enough.
And I think we'll leave it at that for the moment. I think it's enough information. I'm sorry, I don't mean to make it tough on you, but I'm going to stop right there and take another question.
Thank you very much.
Your next question comes from the line of Dennis Forsch with KeyBanc.
Yes. Thank you very much. Good afternoon. Andrew, I wanted to ask about the cost of the room remodel. I must have missed it when Steve gave it.
How much is that going to run?
99. 99? It's 45 for the typical rooms, 46 for the suites and for the villas another 10.
Okay. Great. That adds up. And then secondly, Steve.
And then add a little something for Baccarat and that's all we're doing.
Okay, terrific. Thank you. And then Steve, given your perspective on Macau, which is probably clearer than anybody's and the Cotai Strip, when you build on the Cotai Strip, you're going to have a great location. Who else knew is going to be there? Clearly, Sheldon's going to open sites 56.
I hope so. We're counting on
that. Do you think there's a possibility they won't open them?
No, no. I'm just saying it depends on timing. Okay. Do you
think anybody else will open out there
before you do? No. The city the studio city is a hodgepodge of lawsuits and confusion and was since its inception. So maybe the biggest break they get is if they don't start in that case. Stanley Ho has
Ho has property and MGM
and Pansy Ho have property there and Pansy Ho combination is right across the street from us, adjacent to some particular, the Hyatt corner of City of Dreams that faces us. And then Stanley has property out there, doesn't he, Linda?
That's with Galaxy. Galaxy.
Galaxy is opening in March, but they'll be right away and then that'll be it at Galaxy 1.
And I mean,
they've used their property. So I think it's Stanley Ho and Angie Ho does Pantheon MGM have a name? Do they operate under a name? MGM. MGM.
They use that name. Okay. So MGM, it's MGM and SJM companies. And again, whatever Studio City is, it's hard to tell.
Okay. So, but they're likely to be behind you in opening? Absolutely. Okay. And will there be competition?
Excuse me. They'll be behind us, but this is important. If they get their act together and they start while we're building, they still won't know what's inside our building. So they're going to have to build it without the advantage of an education on wind Cotai.
Right. And that would probably between the properties are already under construction years that probably doubles, maybe more than doubles the capacity on the Cotai strip. You're going to probably lead the market like you do on the Peninsula. Do you worry that there'll be enough business for everybody there or that there
could be a
fallout?
We studied that. We're going to have 500 tables. We're not going to be bigger than we are on the peninsula in terms of gaming. We're smaller, not bigger. In terms of the other places, I mean, I don't know how many tables they have at Venetian.
It's enormous and slot machines. It's
3 times
us. 3 times us. I mean, the overlay on equipment is staggering. We again, bigger and better, better and better. But we won't have that kind of casino size.
We know what size our casino has to be to get all the money. And we're going to and I'm telling you what it is, it's 500 tables and junket rooms and everything. So I don't know what SJM would do or MGM. I think MGM is learning a lesson. To build an unlimited amount of general casino tables is a misguided notion.
It doesn't add up at the moment. Even though the margin is better in the general casino, there's a limit to how many tables you can spread. As far as the growth of the market, even slowing that growth down to half as much as what it is now, we believe that the market will be ready for the capacity that Cotai Sheldon Adelson and his colleagues have made that point and I think they're quite correct.
Okay, great. If I could ask one quick question of Andrew, I've noticed the whole percentage on slots in Vegas going up pretty dramatically. Is that intentional? Are you changing the mix of machines?
When did you notice that?
About the Q4 of 'nine.
Yes. I mean some of it is, yes, we're changing the mix on our floor and we've increased the complement of participation product, which as you know, carries a higher whole percentage and some of it is also the composition of of play shifting down and denomination, which also carries a higher whole percentage.
Okay. Terrific. Thanks a lot.
You've been paying attention.
Yes. Thanks, Steve.
Your next question comes from the line of Robin Farley with UBS.
Thanks. I've got a question on Vegas and Loma Macau. In Vegas, I wonder if you could give us a little color on your cable drop was down slightly after being up nicely in Q1. And we've seen a little bit of others in the market that you're talking about table drop being up as well. So if you can reconcile sort of what's going on with your table drop.
And you mentioned that expenses were up because of higher customer acquisition costs. And just were those
customer acquisition costs
things that would have acquisition costs things that would have borne fruit in Q2 or are they for future quarters?
Robin, the reason the table dropped us off is because there's so many more tables around here even though they're not doing a very good job for their owners. And secondly, the reason our customer acquisition cost is up is namely our competitors get desperate. There's 2 things happen. They stop taking care of the building and they increase their promotional allowances to no avail, I might add. It's a one way street to oblivion, but that's the natural knee jerk reaction when they get desperate.
They don't take care of their building and they grasp for customers. And then it has an effect in the marketplace and it takes everybody down. The person who while before they wake up to it and then they get new executives or something. It's while before they wake up to it and then they get new executives or something. It's been the oldest story in the history of Las Vegas.
We go through this cycle all the time with inexperienced help and unsophisticated management. They spend too much, they overcomp, they do all this stuff. This is as old as Methuselah around here. Maybe I'm getting old. I've been doing this for 42 years, but I've seen this about 11 times.
And then there's a new group of young and experienced managers. Again, they fire the other guys and the people came, well, we can't do this anymore. Stop. We can't comp people that don't play that much. We can't afford this.
There's no margin in this business. They got blackjack at some of these hotels down to where the game isn't worth the space that takes up on the floor. But with the help, they got the tables, they got the dealers, they want to protect the jobs, they go and give the joint away. If the rooms are empty, they figure they got nothing to lose,
even if there
are no rooms.
It sounds like that's continuing into the second half year that situation?
Pardon me, Matt?
In other words, the competitive situation that you saw in Q2, it sounds like it's continuing here into the second half of the year in terms of customer acquisition costs and table drop being down?
Andrew? Yes. Yes. Yes, Rob. Absolutely.
In a word, yes.
That's a good answer.
But we've got these nightclubs and there we're able to get an advantage because it's the management of atmosphere. And so their knowledge and experience really matter. A blackjack game is a blackjack game. Unfortunately, a slot machine is a slot machine, they're all a commodity. When we get into the areas where there's a difference that matters, like the way we treat people, how beautiful the places are, the management of environment, then the competition can't run with us and we're safer.
And that's where Linde's customers come in. They're brand oriented. They're very conscious of the little things, the quality of their experience, how clean the place is and how they're cared for. Nightclubs, it's believe it or not, in a strange way, it's a similar kind of thing. So those are the 2 segments where we hold our own.
Okay, great. And then Mike, a question on Cotai. I was interested in your comment about the second site, the 12 acres you have left over after the design. Is that something that you would design and develop concurrently or is that something you're saying kind of several years from now you would do design work for?
Since we just finished this phase, there's the piece staring us in the face and we're delighted with it. We haven't gone any further in our thinking.
So would it be just to understand what you're saying, call it a site, would it be an
I don't know. I don't
know, Robin. I'm saying we just finished the design and it turns out that it was on 40 acres, 39 acres, not 52. So we had this lovely site left. 39 acres, not 52. So we had this lovely site left that we can use to augment the whole Cotai profile with something that will make Macau a better place and make money for us too.
So we have to think about that. The site didn't get created till we finished putting in the hotel that we're going to do. So I can't answer your question because it's too soon.
Okay, great. Thank you. Thanks.
We done.
Your next question comes from the line of Robert Schorr with Hudson Securities.
Hi, it's actually Bob LeFleur. Just one quick question. I noticed that your slot performance is very strong in Macau, up 21% and Las Vegas Sands also had very strong slot performance in Macau. It's not something we talked about much, it's a small part of the business, but I was wondering if this tells us anything about the evolution of moving forward? Thank you.
Jay, do you around? Oh, he's gone.
Ian is
on the phone. Ian, you're there. What do you say about that? Yes. So picking up Sands had strong slots.
We had strong slot performance. What do you think about that?
There's definitely a big growth in the slot market. And I think all operators have been very pleasantly surprised over the last 36 months of how slots have taken off. We've managed to grow our business very well at all levels of slots. We have a very, very highly productive high limit slot market where we give very personal attention to our customers. We watch it very carefully.
And the advent of Encore for us has allowed us to take that to another level. So it's not a small part of our business, it's quite a big part of our mass market business, and we watch it very carefully. It's been very rich and rewarding for us, and we believe there's still great potential for growth
there. There you are, sir, from Hudson Securities.
Thank you.
Have we exhausted the curiosity for everybody, including our competitors that are on the call? If I said anything that upset anybody, I apologize. We love you all and enjoy talking to you.