Thank you for standing by, and welcome to EML Payments Limited Full Year 2022 Results Briefing. All participants are in listen-only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session. If you wish to ask a question, you'll need to press star key, followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. I'd like to turn the conference over to Mr. Ron Hynes, Managing Director, CEO. Please go ahead.
Thanks, Nick. Good morning, and welcome to EML's financial results presentation for the 12 months ended 30 June 2024. I'm Ron Hynes, Managing Director and CEO, and I'm joined on this call by our CFO, James Georgeson. Let me start by saying I'm excited to be here for my first results call as EML CEO. James and I look forward to taking you through our presentation, after which we'll be happy to take questions you may have. This morning's presentation will commence with an overview of our full year 2024 performance and some highlights from our revitalization journey, which I'm pleased to report is underway and in fact, has delivered on many of the priorities set by the board in April 2023 .
James will then provide a detailed summary of our financial performance, including contributions from our three segments, our underlying overheads, interest returns, and cash flow. I will then come back and outline our priorities and outlook for the current year, which will be a period of building and readying the business for growth. Much has been achieved, and our work continues towards a stronger, more efficient, and growth-oriented EML. Although new to my role, I am well acquainted with EML's journey, from my 20 years of experience in the prepaid cards industry, and have followed the company through the highs and, more recently, the challenges and the great work that's been done by our 458 employees around the world to set our business back on course. Last year was a year of challenge, determination, and achievement.
I'll speak in more detail to our performance scorecard on the next slide, but I'd like to first speak to the top-line themes for the year in review and how that sets us up for success moving forward. Operationally, we communicated a revised strategy and a set of near-term priorities in April 2, 2023 . With the pending completion of the Sentenial sale, those objectives have been largely delivered. It was an enormous and complex body of work, and I commend the team for what's been accomplished. Financially, we have delivered on our earnings target in the midst of competing priorities. Our balance sheet has been repaired courtesy of a number of initiatives, including a recent refinance program, which welcomed marquee, local, and global lenders to an expanded debt facility.
The combination of operational and financial actions taken during full year 2024 has created the platform for the team and I to build for growth over the coming 12 to 24 months and take EML to the next level. I'm really excited for the journey ahead. Turning to our detailed scorecard for full year 2024, I'm pleased to report that our financial performance has shown market improvement over the last 12 months. We achieved at the top end of guidance on underlying EBITDA, our primary measure of business performance, at AUD 57.1 million, supported by revenue growth and a tapering of overhead costs, particularly in the second half of the year.
With our continuing businesses, which excludes the Irish business, PCSIL, which is in wind down by external liquidators, revenues were up 18% to AUD 217.3 million, and underlying EBITDA was up 34% to AUD 49 million. James will expand more on our financial performance shortly. However, this is a very positive result, especially given all the focus and resources that were directed at solving the long-standing challenges. Cost optimization was also a focus, particularly during the second half, and we made good progress in tapering off from the overhead trajectory of the prior year. On the regulatory remediation front, we have exited the challenged Irish business, PCSIL, and successfully completed the regulatory remediation work program for our UK subsidiary, PFSL, which happily and importantly has removed the growth cap restrictions.
This has been an ongoing constraint to the business since October of 2022. There is customer demand for our products in the market, and we see many green shoots with the commencement of rebuilding our growth engine. We've signed several important new deals in full year 2024, and business development momentum is really accelerating over the last three months. Our treasury team's performance continued to be outstanding during 2024, providing valuable P&L support during this period of transition. The strategic review commenced in 2023, progressed well during the year, and we've now established the core parameters of our business. This ultimately resulted in the sale of Sentenial in March. The completion of this sale is on track to be completed in the first quarter of this year.
I'm also happy to share that we've recently established new debt facilities, extending both term and headroom with domestic and international lenders, which strengthens our balance sheet to support our future growth. This is really a great vote of confidence in our journey to date and our journey to come. Lastly, a significant discount of $15 million was achieved on the settlement of the PFS acquisition liabilities due over full year 2024 and full year 2025, and we're really happy to have this behind us. Today marks a pivotal point in EML's revitalization. The EML team has made tremendous progress on the operational and strategic priorities throughout full year 2024. As we enter 2025, these achievements lay the foundation for the next phase in our transition, focused on optimizing new customer development, operational efficiency, product innovation, and performance.
We have a number of attractive pillars that provide a base upon which to build. The market we operate in is large and continues to show meaningful secular growth over the next five years as businesses look to streamline inefficient and cumbersome money flows and as consumers increase their preference for electronic payments. Further development plans for our digital payment segment, ex Sentenial, which was about 65% of the total digital payments revenue, will be addressed as a secondary priority, given its relatively small footprint within EML today. Our customer base is strong. We serve roughly a thousand customers across 27 countries. The diversity of our customer base helps insulate us by reducing our dependence on any one industry, any one customer, or any one geography.
And the loyalty of our customers also remains strong, with many of our customers having been with EML for more than five years, and we've had a number of important renewals in the last quarter alone. This is reflective of the solid customer relationships we've built and the value of the solutions we provide, which in many cases, are core to our customers' very own business. Financially, our core business is profitable and delivers strong margins. Our revenue streams are varied across the customer life cycle, including establishment fees when a customer signs on, transaction fees when a consumer uses our cards, ongoing management fees, breakage on the Gift and Incentive segment, and interest earned on the customer floats we manage. Importantly, this highlights the multifaceted revenue creation opportunities we have and the lack of dependence on a single revenue stream for growth.
Finally, and a very important reason why I joined EML, our people. The 458 employees remain fundamental to our achievements to date and our ability to realize our growth ambitions. People make the difference in a business, and we certainly have a team that can make things happen at EML. As I mentioned earlier, 2024 was a year of defining the core parameters of our business, which sets us up to be successful moving forward. With the wind down of PCSIL, the sale of Sentenial, which is due to be completed in the first quarter of 2025, we can now begin to share what our reshaped core business looks like. We're focused on the markets and product offerings where we built success and continue to have a strong right to win.
In the US and Canada, we have a strong franchise in the retail mall category and flagship branded gift cards, along with corporate incentives such as employee rewards and promotional cashback offers. 66% of our revenue in this market comes from our gift and incentive segment. In the UK and Europe, our revenues come from a mix of general purpose reloadable and gift and incentives at 58% and 42% respectively. The exit of PCSIL and Sentenial will result in a disproportionate drop in overall GDV, but dramatically improved margins for the business. Our UK business has a foothold within the government sector, and we're focused on growing both the government and private sector verticals in 2025 and beyond, following the removal of the growth restrictions. It's great to be back on the hunt for new business in that market.
In Europe, we've seen strong growth, largely through our indirect channels, where we leverage the local expertise of resellers across continental Europe. As with all our key customers, we're working to deepen our relationships with those partners as well. In Australia, 81% of revenue comes from our general purpose reloadable segment. We continue to see growth in the human capital management and salary packaging vertical, where we remain the market leader. We also continue to see new opportunities arising in the embedded finance space, particularly around corporate expense, employee benefits, and loyalty. I mentioned in my opening remarks that the global market in which we operate remains big and continues to grow. In fact, the open loop prepaid market is predicted to hit $5.8 trillion by 2030.
If we zoom in on the two segments of this market we focus on today, we see double-digit growth in both gift and incentive and general purpose reloadable. The gift or single-use segment, with a total addressable market of $716 billion today, is projected to continue to grow at 17% annually through 2030 . And the multi-use or GPR segment stands at over $1 trillion globally today, and likewise, it is expected to continue to grow at 19% annually through 2030 . The ever-growing adoption of digital wallets and rise of embedded payment solutions is driving much of this anticipated growth with prepaid solutions well-placed to create frictionless payment where there are still highly inefficient payment flows.
I'll talk more in a bit about how we're looking to strengthen the business in pursuit of winning more market share and making new markets later in our presentation. But for now, I hand over to our CFO, James Georgeson, for an overview of EML's financial performance during full year 2024.
Thank you, Ron, and good morning, everyone. I will talk through our financial results during the period and explain some of the key drivers before I hand back to Ron to cover our full year 2025 priorities and outlook. Let me first start by saying the numbers shown throughout most of the following slides exclude the impact of PCSIL in both full year 2024 and full year 2023, as this business has been classified as a discontinued operation in accordance with accounting standards, following its entry into liquidation in January this year. Where the numbers exclude the PCSIL business, we have referred to this as the continuing operations. As the Sentenial sale is yet to complete, all balances include Sentenial in full year 2024 and full year 2023. I will start on slide 10, where we show our key performance metrics.
As you can see, pleasingly, most metrics have improved year on year. Underpinning the improvement in most metrics was positive increases in customer revenue across each of our business segments, which I'll talk to more shortly, and a more favorable interest rate environment and our deliberate treasury management activities. Underlying EBITDA for the continuing business, our core measure of business performance, improved 34% to AUD 49 million. Adding back in the PCSIL contribution up until the 17th of January, when the business was put into liquidation, the underlying EBITDA for the group was AUD 57.1 million, at the top end of our AUD 52 million-AUD 58 million guidance range. This is shown on the waterfall on the slide. Looking at the key metrics on this slide for the continuing operations. Total revenue increased 18%, reaching AUD 217.3 million.
This increase was driven by a 6% increase in customer revenue, notably within our general purpose reloadable or GPR segment and our digital segment. We did see some softening in our gifting segment in the latter half of the period. Interest revenue saw a significant improvement, up AUD 24.5 million, thanks to yield optimization initiatives and sustained interest rates. Net overheads were up year on year to AUD 117.3 million. However, as previously guided, we reduced overheads in the second half of 2024 relative to the first half of 2024. Our statutory net loss after tax shows a considerable improvement during full year 2024. Last year's loss included substantial impairments related to our PFS Group and Sentenial acquisitions.
This year's AUD 9.6 million net loss after tax includes an impairment charge of AUD 8.8 million, with AUD 8.5 million of this related to the PFS Ireland business and the material improvement from last year. Moving to slide 11, where we show the segment performance for Gift and Incentive. The Gift and Incentive business primarily comprises our North American and European businesses, which offer a range of gift card programs, primarily distributed through shopping malls, and a range of corporate incentive programs, as Ron has just outlined. GDV or gross debit volume was up 5% to AUD 1.8 billion. This upside stemmed predominantly from growth in our incentive programs, which were up 12%. Total revenue for this segment reached AUD 81.5 million, reflecting a 9% increase over the prior period.
This growth was fueled by a 1.9 rise in customer revenue and a substantial 109% increase in interest revenue. Growth in corporate incentives was the driver of the increase in customer revenue, up AUD 4.2 million or 16% compared to the prior period. However, this was partially offset by changes in US consumer spending habits, with shopping mall revenue decreasing by 5%. Customer revenue in the second half of the year was also impacted due to some customer attrition. We are addressing this by revamping our current go-to-market strategy to improve customer retention. Gross profit margins for the segment remained fairly stable compared to the prior period, when adjusted for the fraud events in full year 2024. On Slide 12, we show the performance for the General Purpose Reloadable segment.
Our GPR segment primarily comprises our Australian and UK businesses, which offer a range of payment solutions across the government, financial services, and human capital verticals. This segment achieved strong growth in full year 2024, largely driven by growth in the government and human capital verticals, which were up 15% and 23% respectively. The growth restrictions on our UK business, which are now removed, were in place for most of the year, impacting customer and financial growth for the period. We are very pleased this restriction has now been lifted. All of these factors contributed to modest GDV growth of 3% to AUD 7.8 billion. Despite this, we still achieved customer revenue growth of 7%. Pleasingly, we deepened our partnership with Mastercard during the period and became the issuer and BIN sponsor of 14 prepaid programs with several leading Australian household brands.
Our ongoing focus on yield optimization, coupled with higher interest rates, led to a 99% improvement on interest revenue, which is up AUD 19.5 million in full year 2024. Turning to our digital payments segment, shown on slide 13, which performed solidly in full year 2024. Our digital payments segment principally comprises our Sentenial business, our NuPay open business, our open banking payments business, and our virtual account numbers business in the US. Sentenial is now approximately two-thirds of the digital payment segment in total. This remains a high-volume, low-yielding segment of EML today, and growth was largely due to contributions from our Sentenial business, with the segment's GDV growing by 19% on last period to AUD 136.8 billion.
The Sentenial component of the digital segment contributed revenue of AUD 15.2 million, and gross profit of AUD 13.5 million, and both were up 23% on last year, as can be seen on the slide. Excluding Sentenial's performance, the segment's gross profit contribution was flat otherwise. As Ron said, the sale of Sentenial, Sentenial announced in March of this year, remains on track to complete in the first quarter of 2025. Moving to slide 14, which shows our overhead costs. Underlying overhead, net of cost recovery, has increased 14% versus the prior period, but have reduced half on half as we previously guided. Overhead costs have shown net of cost recoveries from the PFS business, as accounting standards require the amounts to be grossed up, yet these costs are managed on a net basis operationally.
The increase year-on-year in overhead costs was largely due to a number of factors. These included strategic improvement investments in the business, attracting leadership talent to drive our revitalization, building out of our risk and compliance function, and the commencement of rebuilding our sales capability. We see these costs as critical to establishing a sustainable business. Controlling and reducing costs not material to achieving our operational plan, was a focus for the year as well. By implementing a number of measures, including reducing technology spend and exiting non-core roles, we were able to curb cost growth. Accordingly, in the second half of the year, overheads reduced by 8% compared to the first half. The second half cost position did benefit from the write back of a prior year credit loss provision, given the balance was collected.
We will continue our focus on bringing down our rate of cost growth in full year 2025. On slide 15, we show an overview of our interest income and stored flow balances for 2024. Interest income is a key source of revenue and is baked into our business model. During the period, interest revenue increased to AUD 49.8 million, reflecting improved market rates and successful yield optimization activities. For full year 2024, our annualized yield was approximately 2.9%, compared to 1.6% in the last year, with an exit yield of 3.6% as of June 2024. The GPR segment contributes approximately 80% of the total interest earned. This segment has benefited significantly from the higher return on bond investments, growth in stored flow, and enhanced yields.
Specifically, the bond investments through our UK business alone generated AUD 20.1 million in interest revenue in 2024, representing 40% of our total earned interest revenue for the group. These bonds have staggered maturities over the next four years, with an average maturity approximately two years. Therefore, we are well hedged. Management remains focused on optimizing earned yields and strengthening our banking relationships across the group going forward. On Slide 16, we show the movement in our cash position. From an operating cash flow perspective, the underlying EBITDA of AUD 49 million generated AUD 14.1 million of net cash inflows across 2024. This is shown in the waterfall on the slide. Excluding the impact of restructuring and remediation costs, the underlying operating cash generation was AUD 22 million, or approximately 45% of underlying EBITDA.
While a 45% conversion rate is lower than our medium-term expectation of around 60%, it's improved. It's important to note the full year 2024 performance was influenced by several factors. Firstly, we had a 7 million improvement, sorry, 7 million movement in working capital, mainly due to delayed invoice payments as at the June 13, 2023, plus some accrued costs in full year 2024. Secondly, we paid AUD 6.1 million in interest payments, of which AUD 3 million was for the vendor loan notes, which have now been fully repaid. And finally, we paid AUD 11.6 million in taxes, including approximately AUD 5 million in prior year tax installments. Overall, our cash position decreased by AUD 28.3 million during the financial year.
This reduction was largely due to one-off outflows, totaling approximately AUD 40.8 million, which reflect the execution of our full year 2024 strategic and operational priorities. These one-off outflows included AUD 18.4 million related to the PCSIL operating cash usage during the period, and the deconsolidation of its cash balances in January. We had a net pay down of external liabilities amounting to AUD 14.4 million, which reflects the repayment of the PFS vendor loan notes and the Sentenial acquisition earn-out payment, net of our debt drawdowns. And finally, we paid AUD 8 million in remediation and restructuring costs. These cash flow dynamics reflect the impact of one-off payments and strategic actions we've taken during the year. And as we move forward, we remain focused on improving our cash conversion rate and optimizing our cash flow management activities to drive greater financial stability and shareholder value.
Pleasingly, post-balance status, Ron has already mentioned, we've executed a package of new committed debt facilities with improved duration and higher facility limits with marquee banking partners. The package has a total initial limit of AUD 100 million and includes a two-year syndicated revolving debt facility with ANZ and Citibank to the value of AUD 70 million, and a bilateral five-year term facility with IFM for AUD 30 million. Post Sentenial, the total facility limits were reduced to AUD 70 million. We are very pleased to have secured these new facilities from leading domestic and global lenders, demonstrating the confidence in the underlying EML business and the progress we've made on strategic objectives over the last twelve months. Stepping back, full year 2024 has been a year of significant change at EML, and as we've executed a number of actions to improve the financial performance and balance sheet of the business.
Our Underlying EBITDA was up 34%, our cash generation is improving, and the new debt facility strengthened EML's balance sheet for the next phase of growth. I'll now pass back to Ron so he can cover our full year 2025 priorities and our future outlook.
Thanks, James. Let me take a couple of minutes now to expand on a few of our priorities for full year 2025. My goal here in the short term is to build towards what we're calling EML 2.0, a stronger, more efficient EML, built to win in the global payment space. The team has done some terrific work before I arrived, and I'm building on that momentum by developing clear priorities for the year ahead to get us back on track and get us ready for growth. We break these down into three buckets: growth, building common products driven through markets locally, and uplifting our capabilities through structure and people. EML has a strong organic growth mindset. However, it feels to me like we've gotten a bit off track recently.
We will reinvigorate this with a focus on our existing customers and by creating smart, sustainable, new customer growth. We will believe we have a right to win every opportunity we look at. We have many of the tools in place. However, there is enhancement and augmentation to be done. You will see us working tirelessly to raise our sales and go-to-market capabilities to attract more opportunities within our existing solution and existing market set. Additionally, we will be product-led so that we deliver maximum value to our customers and ultimately for our shareholders. We have great products around the world, but we're not selling all products in all markets.
Our ongoing product roadmap will be guided by the needs of our customers and prospects in target verticals, where our solutions can bring efficiency and better consumer experience through large flows of monies in our existing and eventually in new markets as well. Additionally, we will work to see where the market is headed and build out solutions to lead the market, not follow. Not dissimilar to what we did years ago, right here in Australia, with the EML salary packaging solution that we built and continue to lead the market with. To achieve this, we will begin to upgrade our technology and delivery capabilities. I think of this as both a short and long-term effort. We need to meet our customers and their customers where they are and where they want to be today.
We'll be uplifting our capabilities to address today's most pressing challenges for our customers, better functionality and UX for end users, digitizing manual processes, and creating a platform for rapid product development, which is critical in this digital age. At the same time, we've also begun to look ahead to design and build EML 2.0, a platform that will allow us to better operate consistently around the world, deliver all products in all markets, and to operate far more efficiently. Finally, people underpin our company's ability to successfully execute on this transformation. Great people do great things. I'm committed to ensuring we have the best talent in the industry to execute flawlessly across our growth initiatives, product vision, technology, and operations. And all this will be unlocked by a more globally streamlined operating model.
Team EML made tremendous progress in 2024 and welcomed the appointment of key management positions. However, there is more to do to rationalize our team structures and remove friction. I'm confident that these three areas will create a stronger, more robust, and growth-oriented EML 2.0. The board has given me the mandate to move at pace, and I look forward to providing further color and an update on our progress at the upcoming AGM. Looking now to our projected earnings for full year 2025. For our continuing businesses, our current plans have underlying EBITDA in the AUD 54 million-AUD 60 million range. The new leadership team is assessing various work programs on hand now, including cost out, technology roadmap, and sales pipelines, while simultaneously developing a medium-term strategic and operational plan, including financial and non-financial metrics, to take us forward over the next three years.
I will present that plan at the November AGM and speak in more detail to not only our growth plans, but also to underlying margin expansion, cost efficiencies, and responsible investment profile as we revitalize the business and track towards EML 2.0. I'd like to personally extend my thanks to our customers and shareholders for your ongoing support. I recognize it has not been without challenges in 2024. However, I am excited by the opportunities that are before us. EML has worked tirelessly to address the key issues that have hampered our performance, and now we are prosecuting a clear strategy for breathing new life into the business. The board and I are energized and well aligned on taking EML to the next level for our shareholders, our customers, our partners, and importantly, our employees.
James and I would be pleased to answer any questions you may have, and now I'll hand it back over to the operator. Thank you.
Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, press star two. If you're on a speakerphone, please pick up your handset to ask your question. First question will be from Jack Daley, Shaw and Partners. Please go ahead.
... And yeah, congrats on a great result, you delivered, and especially Ron, first result in charge. Just curious-
Thank you.
On a few things. Maybe just firstly, I think you mentioned in FY 2024, you signed some deals, I think in GPR. Are you able to give any detail there on what was driving those wins? And yeah, where you're seeing kind of the opportunity there to build on that.
Yeah, thanks, thanks for the question. And thanks for the congratulations. I appreciate it. Listen, I think what's important here is we have great products and solutions that the markets, the market is looking for. You know, the company's been distracted, rightfully so, on a lot of great work, as we highlighted. And I think that took the focus off new business development and existing customers for a period of time. I think as the team got through and was making progress on a lot of those strategic priorities, it freed up and created a renewed focus. I think there's more to be done on that front for us on new customer and new business development.
And it began to yield some early results in the back half of the year.
Great. And just on the, obviously, you've given the EBITDA guidance, so AUD 64 million-AUD 60 million. I know first half, you kind of said how we should be thinking about EBITDA margin expansion of 4%-5% to FY 2026. Is that still how we should be thinking about it, or are you kind of looking through the numbers as part of your strategy?
Yeah, look, Jack, I think you hit it right on the nail on the head of the last. So we're looking through the elements of what makes up the EBITDA as part of the work that Ron and I are doing on the strategy. So we've guided at the EBITDA level for the time being, and we'll come back to the market in November with a, you know, the breakdown of how that would, you know, comprise both revenue and costs, not just for 2025, but into the future as well.
Yeah. Great. And just on the underlying overhead net of cost recoveries. So obviously it's down 8% from first half to second half with the.. I guess it's quite a lot of it's driven by the credit loss. Are you able to just give a sense on what the run rate there is roughly, or the exit rate is there at the second half?
Look, I think we haven't specifically guided on that today. I think the comment I made in my presentation was that there was the credit loss reversal, which is for one time. So I think you'd wanna adjust that back out of the numbers. But for all intents and purpose, the rest of the numbers probably sort of show the right trajectory. But I think as you know, Ron alluded to, we are looking at you know, the nature of the cost base as well as the investments we need to make. So as I said, you sort of roll back up to we've given you know, the EBITDA guidance and sort of we'll come back with more details about the cost base.
But definitely you'd wanna make sure you adjust for the credit losses. And also take into account, you know, we will be looking at how we, you know, make sure we have the right go-to-market sales capabilities, as well as the right tech solutions.
Got it. Yep. And just on the, I guess, kind of remediation or any adjustments that we should be thinking about moving forward. Obviously, you've got Sentenial, which is gonna be leaving the business in first quarter, like you said, but is there anything else in FY 2025 that's we should be thinking about there?
Not necessarily anything else material at this stage, I don't think. Look, there's always a little bit of noise in that sort of thing, but other than no, no, definitely the substantial amounts of the last few years, you would not be seeing those repeat, is probably the key message.
Yeah, that's great. I mean, I can just go back in the queue if there's anyone else who's got questions. Thanks, guys. We appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thank you. And again, if you have a question, please press star then one. Our next question will be from Stella Wang, private investor. Please go ahead.
Morning, guys. Can you hear me all right?
Yeah, you're a little distant. If you can move a little closer, maybe, Stella.
Yeah, it is better?
Yeah. Thank you.
Great. Thanks for taking questions. I've got two main sets. The first one is regarding Sentenial's exit. At the announcement of the sale, you mentioned a couple of variables. Firstly is there is downside protection depending on its performance between February and shortly after settlement. So how has it been going? How should we think of this potential deduction in the sale number?
So, let me take that one. So, you know, we have been working closely with the GoCardless team since the transaction was announced. The discussions and, engagement and preparation for the sale is well progressed. The business has continued, its trajectory in terms of growth, and also it's been improving its performance at the EBITDA level. It still does make a small loss at the EBITDA level, but that has been improving. But no, for all intents and purposes, the business has continued to perform as we expected, and it is continuing to improve.
You did mention a expected AUD 2 million EBITDA loss from Sentenial in the FY 2024 number. So judging from what you just said, is that a slightly lower EBITDA loss Sentenial this financial year 2024?
It's the number we did in 2024 is more closer to the three number, which was where we sort of had always been indicating. So it landed pretty much as we expected in full year 2024, about AUD 2.8 million-AUD 2.7 million for the EBITDA loss for Sentenial for the period.
Is that, projected into your financial year 2025 underlying EBITDA, between 54 and 60? So that's after further loss from Sentenial.
No, the future guidance of 2025 for 54-60 excludes both any PCSIL or related impacts as well as the Sentenial business. That's excluding that.
Okay, that's a good clarification. Also, part of the Sentenial sale announcement you mentioned, there is AUD 18-AUD 20 million cash outflow from finalizing PCSIL end of life. Has that cash already gone out, or how much of that AUD 18-AUD 20 million is due to go out of our balance sheet?
So you're referring to the intercompany loan that the group owes-
Yeah
... back to PCSIL, the liquidated or the business in liquidation. So that payment has not yet been made. We still expect, when we originally did that, those decisions in January, we said it's probably 9 to 12 months before that payment would be needed, which would bring us close to the end of calendar year 2024 . We're still in the same expectation that the payment won't be needed to be made until the end of this calendar year, early into 2025 . That's the latest expectation. Hasn't changed from our original plans.
Cool. Thank you for that. Now, lastly, from me, regarding the forward-looking statement, how have you factored in potential rate cuts? What's your assumption of your interest yield, this financial year and next?
So, look, as I said to the earlier question, we've guided obviously the EBITDA level for the time being, and we'll come back at the AGM with a broader set of detailed guidance, projections, including multi-year. I mean, what I would say is, our portfolio, our float balances is got a reasonable degree of hedging in it because of the bond portfolio. So that is about 40% of our portfolio is got a sort of natural two-year hedge for those bonds. But we've looked at the interest rate outlook. We do expect some moderating in yields as markets turn. Clearly, we have float balances that invested in a number of currencies around the world.
Clearly, the three biggest currencies are GBP, Euro, and Aussie dollars. So, you know, taking a blend of those rates would get you to have a feel for that. But look, we definitely watch sort of market rates and take sort of a market consensus around how we would expect. So that would be your best view of how to think about it. But, you know, as I said, we will come back at the AGM in November and give some more guidance, more detail around interest rates and interest yields heading forward.
Thanks for that. I'll jump back into the queue.
Thank you. Again, if you have a question, please press star then one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to hand call back to Mr. Hynes for closing remarks.
I'd like to thank everyone for taking the time, and that's all we've got. I guess, have a great day.
That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.