Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the PointsBet Holdings Limited H1 FY2024 financial results call. All participants are in a listen-only mode. There will be a presentation, followed by a question and answer session. If you wish to ask a question, you will need to press the star key followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sam Swanell, Group CEO. Please go ahead.
Good morning. Thank you for joining us today for PointsBet's FY 2024 half year results. I'm Sam Swanell, and joining me on the call today is Alister Lui, who from today takes over the role of Group CFO from Andrew Mellor. I would like to thank Andrew for all he has done for the business over the past five years and wish him all the best in his future endeavors. Please note the Safe Harbor statement. All the numbers referred to are unaudited and in Australian dollars unless otherwise stated. I will give a brief overview of the half and will then open to questions from analysts. First, and most importantly, as highlighted in the Q1 and Q2 investor conference calls, during the half, we continued our global commitment to responsible gambling.
This is an important issue for the long-term sustainability of the industry, and we take our obligations in this area very seriously. PointsBet endorses the principle of informed choice, which is aimed at empowering customers to make informed decisions and exercise choice regarding their wagering expenditure. Further details of our approach to responsible gambling can be found in our FY 2023 sustainability report, released in October, which also highlights the ways in which we operate to produce social, economic, and environmental benefits for the communities we serve in both Australia and Canada. Turning to slides 4 and 5. Before I turn to the H1 results, I would like to provide a brief update on the sale of the U.S. business. Initial completion was on the 31st of August, with Fanatics paying the $175 million first installment.
We've completed the first capital return of AUD 1 per share on the 22nd of September, 2023 , delivering AUD 315.4 million back to shareholders. Ownership of 13 out of the 14 U.S. states have now transferred to Fanatics Betting and Gaming. Subsequent sale completion, receipt of the balance of consideration, and second capital distribution is on track for completion in early to mid Q4 FY 2024. PointsBet continues to support Fanatics from an operations perspective as part of the transition in each state. Turning now to Australia and Canada, where our ever-improving back-end capability and front-end product is delivering our efficiency strategy with record H1 results. Looking at slide 5, we can see that at a group level, total net win was up 14% on the PCP at AUD 128.1 million.
Gross profit was even stronger, up 21% versus the PCP at AUD 58.5 million. Finally, normalized EBITDA improved 71%, with a loss of AUD 13.3 million for the half. We reiterate our full-year normalized EBITDA loss guidance of between AUD 9 million and AUD 14 million, which provides transparency that we expect H2 to deliver a result of between a loss of AUD 700,000 and a profit of AUD 4.3 million. These results show our strategy, backed by outstanding technology and outstanding team, is building a platform for near-term profitability and strong ongoing growth. Turning to slide 7 for a review of the Australian business performance. In Australia, we had achieved a record half of revenue, being AUD 101.7 million, up 6.8% compared to the PCP.
Gross profit was also a record, being AUD 50.1 million, with growth outperforming net win at 11.7% compared to PCP. Gross profit margins were 49%, compared to 47% in the PCP. Total marketing expense was AUD 28.4 million, down 37% on the PCP. Despite lower spend, our brand consideration increased from 34% to 37% year-on-year. Importantly, statutory segment EBITDA for the half was positive AUD 0.9 million, a material improvement compared to the loss of AUD 20.2 million in the PCP, and represented the first Australian positive H1 EBITDA in the company's history. We have delivered positive full-year EBITDA in Australia for the past four financial years, but have always incurred a material loss in H1. Our positive H1 this year sets Australia up for a strong full-year result, as previously flagged.
During the half, our gross win margin of 10.9% was slightly lower than our long-term average of 12%-13%. We can attribute this to our relative share of turnover shifting towards sport and lower than expected yield in the high staking client cohort late in H1. Net win margins at 7.6% are approaching our target rate of 8.9%. Our continued focus on promotions efficiency led to the rate of promotions as a percentage of gross win, improving to 29.7% versus 36.8% in the PCP. Net win contribution from racing was in line with the PCP, with the net win contribution from sport growing strongly versus the PCP. We continued to see strong activity across our core international sports offering of NBA, NFL, and soccer.
All sports we operate from our market-leading Odds Factory capability, while In-Play continues to perform strongly with our Darwin-based phone betting team taking record bet placement volumes. With all major operators having reported their H1 results, it is confirmed that the overall market experienced negative H1 revenue growth, and our positive H1 revenue growth of 7% makes it clear we strongly outperformed the market and grew our market share. Turning to Slide 10, and a review of the Canadian business performance. In Canada, we continued on our path to breakeven or close to breakeven EBITDA in FY 2025, with H1 statutory segment EBITDA loss reducing to AUD 12 million, compared to a loss of AUD 19.4 million in the PCP. We currently expect the Canadian H2 EBITDA loss to be lower than the H1.
Sportsbook net win was AUD 6.3 million, up 153% versus the PCP. This growth was driven by both improved trading margin on a higher overall mix of multi-bets, and continued gains in customer acquisition efficiency, demonstrating the strength of our product offering. Our Multi, Same Game Multi, and Live Same Game Multis are powered by our proprietary Odds Factory technology, and along with our live in-play betting capability, form the cornerstone of our sportsbook product-led strategy in Canada. Pleasingly, sportsbook in-play handle grew to 66% of total handle, highlighting the strength of PointsBet's live betting product offering. On the iGaming side, our online casino segment performed very well, delivering net win of AUD 9.5 million. Combining both segments, we achieved a total net win in Canada of AUD 15.8 million, up 135% versus the PCP.
Gross profit was up 149% versus the PCP, with improved gross profit margins from efficiency in cost of sales as the Canadian business continues to scale. Gross profit margin of 52.8% already exceeds our Australian business gross profit margins. This record half of net win was delivered while also delivering a 10% reduction in marketing spend compared to the PCP. In the latter part of the half, we announced our strategic partnership with Strive Gaming, which will transform our iGaming offering and accelerate our growth in this critical vertical. In summary, we remain on track to achieve breakeven or close to breakeven EBITDA in FY 2025 in Canada. We are seeing continued growth of the customer base and continued growth in revenue. In parallel, we are expanding gross profit margins and executing more efficient marketing. Turning to slide 11.
As just mentioned, we recently announced our strategic partnership with Strive Gaming. Through partnering with Strive, we will be able to bring our customers a broader selection of games and enhanced overall experience. We have launched the Strive functionality and are progressively rolling this new capability in the Ontario market. We expect this new offering will accelerate the growth of our online casino business, helping drive a more favorable game mix over time, with higher gross margins, along with enhanced retention and customer lifetime values. Importantly, with an improved online casino product, we will now be in a position to target with our marketing, casino-only players rather than sportsbook players who are cross-sold into online casino. Turning to slide 12.
The regulated Ontario market is estimated at AUD 2 billion in terms of net win today, and we predict it will grow to between AUD 2 .5 billion and AUD 3 billion over the next five years. This attractive total addressable market is expected to be complemented by other provinces creating regulated markets in the coming years, thus providing a natural expansion of the Canadian regulated market. With our market-leading sportsbook product and ever-improving online casino product, PointsBet will deliver very strong revenue growth from Canada for many years to come. I will now hand over to Alister Lui to discuss the H1 group results.
Thank you, Sam. Turning to Slide 14, talking to normalized results first. For the reporting period, PointsBet reported revenue of AUD 117.6 million, a growth of 15.4% compared to the PCP. Gross profit of AUD 58.5 million represented growth of 21.4% over the PCP. Gross profit margin for the reporting period was 49.7%, up from 47.3% in the PCP. This was driven by improved global efficiency and increasing contribution from Canada, which has more favorable unit economics than in Australia.
Group sales and marketing expense was AUD 42.4 million for the reporting period, with Australia accounting for AUD 28.4 million, down 37% on the PCP, and Canada accounting for AUD 14.0 million, being CAD 12.3 million, down 10% on the PCP. Product and technology expense decreased 47% due to reduction of cloud hosting and support costs as a result of the sale of the U.S. business. Certain costs will normalize higher post-final completion. As per Slide 15, which details our statutory segment results, our technology segment is now fully funded by our trading businesses, reporting a statutory segment EBITDA of AUD 1.5 million. Corporate costs per statutory segment results were AUD 4.1 million for the half. Corporate costs will continue to reduce versus the PCP in H2, and reduce further in FY 2025.
The normalized EBITDA loss was AUD 13.3 million for the reporting period, a material decrease from the PCP loss of AUD 45.9 million. As previously referenced, the company expects a normalized group EBITDA loss for the full FY 2024 year of between AUD 9 million and AUD 14 million. Turning to Slide 16, the balance sheet. At 31 December 2023, the company had AUD 46.6 million in corporate cash with adjusted corporate cash of AUD 74.3 million and net assets of AUD 150.6 million. The reduction in net assets compared to the PCP was driven primarily by the company making the first capital return of AUD 315.4 million, and payment of US business sale-related transaction and restructuring costs, as well as the U.S. $ 21 million funding commitment. Turning to slide 17, cash flows.
We provided a detailed cash flow explanation in our Q1 and Q2 4C quarterly reports. Reiterating, the company held adjusted corporate cash of AUD 74.3 million as at 31 December 2023, and had no corporate debt. We also expect that cash flow from operating activities, excluding movement in client cash, to be positive in H2. I will now hand back to Sam to speak to our FY 2024 financial guidance and make some concluding comments.
Thanks, Al. Turning to slide 19. As set out on this slide, the company reiterates its expectations for the 12 months to 30 June 2024, being FY 2024, as follows: Total net win to be 10%-20% higher than in FY 2023. H1 has delivered 14% growth, and I'm happy to report that H2 has started well, with group H2 net win to February 2024, up 34% versus the PCP. Gross profit margin to be circa 50%, total marketing expense to be between 15%-20% lower than FY 2023. Normalized operating expenses, excluding marketing, to be between AUD 60 million and AUD 70 million, and group EBITDA loss will be between AUD 9 million and AUD 14 million. On slide 20, we have provided an illustrative example to bridge H1 normalized group EBITDA to our FY 2024 group EBITDA guidance.
In summary, today's results clearly show that our strategy is working. Revenue growth is up and costs are going down, resulting in a significant reduction in normalized EBITDA losses versus the PCP, with record H1 results across all trading and financial metrics. With the final closure of the sale of the U.S. business imminent, we are obviously at an important stage in PointsBet's journey. The combined Australian and Canadian businesses have grown revenue from AUD 26 million in FY 2019 to an estimated AUD 230 million - AUD 250 million in FY 2024, as per our guidance that we have reiterated today. Our ability to deliver strong growth is evidenced by our trading year to date, and upon the completion of the sale of the U.S. business, we will be delivering this top line growth and matching it with positive EBITDA and EBITDA growth from FY 2025.
Sports betting and iGaming remains a fast-growing global market, and companies like PointsBet, with the experience, technical capabilities, and ability to work in highly regulated markets, are rare and valuable in this industry. This means we can leverage what we've built to deliver shareholder value now, and importantly, increasingly into the future. I will now take questions.
Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star two. If you're on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question. Your first question comes from Rohan Gallagher from Jarden. Please go ahead.
Sam, Andy, Alister, good morning. Good morning, everybody. Sam, thank you, firstly, for the increased disclosure. May I ask, as under PointsBet 2.0, how do you find the balance between profitability and growth? You're clearly demonstrating good efficiencies around your promotions generosities, but how do you find that balance, in taking share, given your, your existing brand technology and so on?
Yeah, good day, Rohan. You know, I think the first thing is, as it relates to our marketing investment and our wider cost base, you know, that is an investment level that we're comfortable with, is not us trying to prune things back. That's an investment level that we expect to continue to deliver the growth that we are delivering. The amount of marketing that we're spending in Australia, while less than last year, it's still a growth amount. We're spending, you know, I suppose, an amount greater than represented by our current market share, so we're spending to grow. And similarly, in Canada, you know, we're investing at a level to grow our market share. And in both markets, we're clearly outgrowing the market, so we are doing so.
We're just executing better. You know, we've found efficiencies, and when you have a better product, both on the front end and from a back-end tooling perspective as it relates to, promotions, and the way we execute that, you just get more bang for the buck. So it's sort of a natural evolution, that as our product gets better and it gets stickier, we get more share of wallet from those clients that we have on the books, versus them perhaps spending some money elsewhere, and we execute more efficiently. So, you know, the investment that we're making from a marketing and promotions perspective is just more efficient.
But, yeah, there's no doubt in our minds that, you know, we're a growth company, and, and we wanna keep growing, and I suppose that's where Canada is, is really important. Australia's market's in good shape. We're growing. I think it's gonna return, you know, to some, to some growth shortly, but, you know, that Canadian market really provides the hope, hyper-growth opportunity, and that's what we're-- that's why we're there.
Yeah, it's a great segue, Sam. I was just on Canada, again, you know, to be in TAM, I do note that you've got high gross profit margins than, say, in America or, or Australia, probably because of iGaming and partner fees, et cetera. But, can you just talk about how the profitability and market shares and the opportunities be, given that it's a very highly contested market?
Yeah, it's a competitive market, but it has some, as we've spoken about before, it has some differences, you know, to the U.S., so you can clearly see that in our gross profit margins. That's why we're keen to disclose those, you know, without having to pay those partner fees, paying a reasonable tax rate, having iGaming sitting next to sports betting for the entire market. You know, it does definitely help that, that path to profitability, and as we've sort of said today, you know, we expect by the end of our third year of operations there, that we'll be hitting that profitability in Canada. So, you know, we're on track for that, and it's clearly an aim, but again, an aim within delivering strong growth out of that market. As you said, it's a AUD 2 billion net today, Ontario.
We can see a path to that clearly getting to AUD 3 billion pretty quickly, given the rate at which the market's growing at. And then you have the opportunity for other provinces, Alberta, British Columbia, seem to be probably at the head of the list, you know, to legalize in the next couple of years and provide a natural expansion to that TAM. So yeah, pretty attractive market. We're growing our market share. You know, our primary right to win still is around our sports betting product, you know, and our Odds Factory capability, so around live betting. But you can also see how important iGaming is across the whole market, and that's represented in our numbers as well.
The partnership that we've announced with Strive, it will deliver further upside on those on those iGaming numbers. Good gross profit margins, you know, effective, effective marketing now on the back of a really strong product on sports and iGaming. Yeah, there's a clear path to profitability, but also a clear path to good ongoing growth, which is what we're after.
Thank you, Sam. A final question, if I may, to Alister. As you move to a standalone entity, can you help us in terms of understanding what are sustainable costs at corporate and technology levels for this business, post the sale of the U.S., please?
Yeah, no, thanks for your question, Rohan. So look, obviously, you know, we spoke to the fact that the technology segment for the half was positive, which means that the Australian trading businesses and the Canadian businesses are funding that technology organization. We've also guided to the fact that there'll be some costs that would normalize higher in H2, as we kind of roll out of the sale of the US business. So, you know, we do expect that, you know, the technology cost base will normalize a bit higher in H2 and then into FY 2025. As it relates to the corporate cost base, you can see that there's already been a significant, a pretty material decrease versus the PCP.
In H2, we do expect that to reduce further versus the PCP, and then normalize out to a full year assuming FY 2024/2025, which we can obviously provide some more guidance to, you know, closer to, you know, when we finish our FY 2025 budgets and whatnot.
Thank you, gentlemen.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Rohan Sundram from MST. Please go ahead.
Hi, Sam, Andy, and Alister. Just a couple from me. Firstly, Sam, are you able to just talk us through the drivers of that very strong start you're seeing at the moment in this second half between, just attributing it between Australia and Canada?
Yeah, okay, Rohan. I think as we've stated, the result that we delivered for Australia in the H1, that was probably a little bit unlucky. You know, we probably left a little bit of net win on the table there. That would've meant that our H1 result was actually a little bit stronger than the 14% that we delivered. We're really happy with the group growing 14% in half, but we probably left a percent or two on the table there. And that, you know, the momentum that we've had has clearly continued into H2. Both Australia and Canada are performing well.
I would say that, you know, as we guided to, we expected our margins to sort of normalize a little bit higher from a sports betting perspective, you know, back into that 12%-13% gross range and a little bit higher on the net, net range, and that's what we're seeing in the half. It's hard for us to talk to the, you know, the Australian macro a little bit because yeah, we are seeing strong growth, in particular, strong growth on the back of our sports products. We know that, you know, now that Tabcorp and Sportsbet have reported, they make up the majority of the market. Sportsbet was down 5% for the half. Tabcorp Digital was down 4% for the half. You know, we grew, so we've clearly grown our market share.
So look, it would seem that the, you know, the macro cost of living is weighing a little bit on the Aussie market. There's probably been, you know, the impact of the increases in point of consumption taxes that have sort of come one after the other, up until now, no doubt has a little bit of an impact because we all get more efficient with our bonusing. And there's, you know, there's a compliance piece, I suppose, to the Australian market as well. I think all the, the large operators, including ourselves, you know, compliance is an all-time high, and even things like, you know, proactively contacting clients to ensure that they can afford the wagering that they're undertaking, almost, you know, source of funds type calls, you know.
That's probably had an impact over the last year or two as we've really taken that to the higher level. Unfortunately, a lot of that then flows down to the long tail of operators that probably don't have the ability to invest in compliance like we do, but overall, I think those factors have resulted in the Aussie market being a little bit down. We're growing strongly. We'd expect the Aussie market to sort of come back to being positive in the near term, and we've spoken extensively about the opportunity that Canada presents.
To get back to the original question, Rohan, you know, better margins, Australia sort of has probably even accelerated its growth from H1, but as I said, H1 in Australia was a little bit negatively impacted by that negative variance late in the half. Otherwise, it would've been slightly stronger itself.
Thanks, Sam. And last one from me is just around the new CTO hire. Can that impact the tech strategy in any way?
No. Yes, so great to be able to announce that Dan Lucas is coming on board as the new CTO. You know, Dan is effectively head of trading technology at the Flutter Group across FanDuel, Sportsbet, Paddy Power, et cetera. Obviously, we speak a lot about Odds Factory and how important it is to our strategy globally. Yeah, we want to win on sports products, we want to win on live betting, we want to win on multis. All of that is very dependent on the technology that we've built. You know, just to remind everyone, while we're selling the U.S. business to Fanatics and the technology was a key part of why they were keen to buy our U.S. business, you know, we split the technology.
They get the technology, we get the technology, and we continue on with it. But no, the strategy, the strategy won't change. There'll be to continue to invest in those, in those areas and, and obviously, Dan's background is, is A1, for, for that investment.
Thanks, Sam.
Thank you. Your next question comes from Phil, Phil Chippindale from Ord Minnett. Please go ahead.
Oh, hi, team. Thanks for your time. Sam, just wanted to touch on the Canadian iGaming business. Just in terms of your strategy to target casino-only customers, obviously as a newer segment for your business, I'm just curious as to how you're going to target those types of customers rather than leveraging, you know, the sports wagering platform as you typically have thus far. And I guess I'm really just trying to unpack the partnership with Strive.
Yep, yep. Good day, Phil. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, our strategy in Ontario has clearly been around acquiring clients on the back of our outstanding sports betting client, and then cross-selling a portion of them across to iGaming. And you can see that, despite being a sports betting lead operator, we even generated more iGaming or online casino revenue than we did sport. But you can think of that as still being generated by, you know, sports-first bettors. But then people enjoy playing some blackjack or some roulette. There's a lot of correlation between sports punters and table games, blackjack, roulette, et cetera. Less correlation between sports punters and, say, slots, online slots.
So, you know, we do believe that the partnership with Strive delivers functionality around bonusing and promotions, and around content that will allow us to target casino-first players, and those are players that generally prefer slots, and slots comes with higher margins than table games. So it's a segment that we haven't really put any marketing dollars behind because we never felt, you know, that our casino product was strong enough for those specialist casino players. You know, I think it was, our casino product was ranked sort of middle of the tier as it relates to competitors, and good enough for a sports punter who wants to come across and play casino, because it's not their number one preference, but not necessarily good enough for a, you know, hardened casino punter who that's their primary interest of coming to, coming to you.
And through Strive, you know, we really accelerate our capability. It'll continue to roll out, you know, more games will roll out every month. The promotion functionality will get better every month. So it's not a big bang where you just see a step change overnight. It will be gradual, but it's certainly a segment of the market that we haven't targeted before. So if you think about performance marketing, you know, we can go and do digital marketing to a segment of client that perhaps wasn't necessarily core to us as it relates to sports betting and increase our target audience.
Okay, thanks. And just on in relation to that really strong performance in the first sort of seven or so weeks of the year, could you just make a comment on the iGaming segment there in Canada? Presumably, that's performed pretty well, and given, you know, you said the Australian business is probably up a bit on the first half growth level, presumably, Canada's likewise, but I just... I'd love to comment on how that iGaming product has performed so far.
Yeah, you know, what I would say really is that what we're seeing for the first seven weeks is pretty much what we've seen in Australia and Canada for H1. The only exception really being that we got hit, as I said, by a bit of negative variance late in the half for Australia. So, you know, the momentum's improved obviously, up 34% for the first seven weeks, as you said, is a bit above. I sort of made comment to Rohan earlier, that margins are back up, from a sports betting perspective in Australia.
But yeah, continued momentum as we've seen with Canada as per the first half, iGaming making up the majority of the contribution still, but being driven by a sports-led strategy, and Australia getting back to the yields that we expect for the long term.
Okay, thanks. That's all from me.
Thank you. Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone. Your next question comes from Simon Thackray from Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Yeah, good day, guys. Thanks for taking the questions. So maybe just come at this a slightly different way. The margin differential between sportsbook and online casino in Canada, can you give us a bit of a hand in understanding the sort of spread, if there is one between those two? And just on that, excuse my ignorance, which no doubt it is, but does iGaming in Canada need to be licensed at sort of the head level with an existing land-based casino, or can this be done independently in Canada, unlike the U.S.?
Answering the second part first, Simon. So, no, we, we don't need any connection to any land-based operator like we did in the U.S. So in the U.S., we're paying fees to a casino or a racetrack in most states. So that's, that's one of the advantages from a gross profit perspective in Canada, that no, the license is ours. We, we have the direct relationship with the regulator, and, and no extra, no extra cost there. So iGaming is a permitted product, online casino, sitting side by side with sports betting. In terms of the first part of the question, look, so far, the margins are pretty similar, as it relates to a gross profit.
So, you know, casinos, different casino products don't necessarily yield at what sports betting yields at a gross level, you know, 8%-10%, et cetera. Yields might generally be lower than that. But, from, if we look at it from a gross profit perspective, pretty similar, from sports to iGaming. But what we would say is that, as I just touched on, table games and have been, you know, the majority of our casino play so far, because again, a sports-led punter prefers those table games, and they are lower yielding than slots.
So as we can target this new segment of players who are casino-first type players, we would expect our, you know, I suppose, our net win to be earned a little bit more efficiently, and that may, that may be able to help us a little bit on, on gross profit margins. But, but they're pretty interchangeable, from our perspective, and, yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't expect to see a massive change in our Canadian gross profit margins.
That's super helpful, Sam. And then just for Australia, I think you said the target net win rate of 8.9% versus the 7.6% delivered. And notwithstanding, I took your comments about it was a bit of a weaker, you know, end to the half. But what does that infer for the implied mix of racing versus sportsbook revenue, given the net win differential between the two? What does it look like?
Yeah, so what- Yeah. So what we've spoken about is gross margins on sport in Australia or on sport and racing in Australia to be between 12% and 13%. That's where we see ourselves sitting. Again, H1, a bit below that. We got that haircut a little bit late in the quarter, late in the half, that didn't help. And then net margins, we expect to be between 8% and 9%, ongoing in Australia. But you picked up a very relevant point, which is historically, you know, as turnover moves from racing to sport, that would put pressure on your gross margin, because sport is generally lower yielding than racing. And we've made a comment, obviously, that our sport is growing really strongly, and that our racing has been largely flat, PCP.
So all other things being equal, you would have expected our gross margins and potentially net margins to sort of come under pressure because of that transfer from racing to sport. But on the flip side, you know, I think, the propensity for bettors to take Multi-bets and Same Game Multi-bets, which are high-yielding sports products, and player props and other, you know, innovations in sports betting, means that the gap is closing from sports yields to racing yields. But sport is still a little bit lower. If racing was performing stronger, then we might be looking at gross win yields above 13% instead of 12%-13%, as an example. And then from the gross line to the net line, it really comes down to that promotions efficiency that we've spoken about.
Yeah, we'd expect that efficiency going to get better. I think we were below 30% for the first time in Australia from gross to net, and we won't go back above 30%.
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And then on the multi-bet side as well, that's just the. I think you've made reference to it a couple of times now, just the tailoring, the personalization of the offer to the bettor and encouraging, I guess that improved mix, you know, which, if we can call it, mix with more multi-bets. I'm just interested in, you know, what are you doing specifically or from a technology point of view, how is that working? How is that offer being tailored, you know, far more efficiently for us to understand that sort of a bit more clearly?
Yeah. Yeah, so there's a few things there. I mean, first of all, the depth of bet types that can be included in a multi have grown enormously over the last couple of years. You know, so the things that we now bet on, for example, on NBA and NFL, which are really, really popular here in Australia, the U.S. sports, you know, that depth has increased. There's more things in terms of players that clients can bet on. So depth and breadth of product is one thing. Then you've got, I suppose, making it easily findable on the app, you know? People need to be able to navigate around, build their multi-bet, make that as user-friendly as possible, the bet placement process as user-friendly as possible.
You know, obviously, as it relates to, promotions or tokens, we, you know, we can, we can direct them towards, certain bet types, as, as well. I think the other point to note here, though, is, is that, you know, it is what consumers want. You know, it's just, it's where the market has been going. You know, that, you know, people love their sport, and, you know, being able to put on a AUD 10 bet that can win you AUD 200 or AUD 500 or AUD 1,000 through a multi, has proven, has proven very, very popular with, with bettors these days. But yeah, there's, there's lots of things that we've done from a product perspective that have enhanced that product and made it all the more easy for, for clients to take them.
I mean, Same Game Multi is an absolute, you know, game changer because, you know, at any one time, there could be three or four NBA games going on, and if someone wants to take a, a Same Game Multi, into another Same Game Multi, we can do that now. And, these are all things that you couldn't do a little while ago.
That's super helpful. Thanks, Sam.
Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.