Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Q3 FY21 results conference call of Motherson Sumi Systems Limited. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vivek Chaand Sehgal. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you very much. A very warm welcome to all my guests today. This is a very exciting moment for all of us in Motherson Sumi. We have a historic high of what we have stalled under these circumstances, and the results are there to complement this historic high for Motherson Sumi. I know you would be anxious to ask your questions and all that, so I'm not going to take more time. But I would also like to guide you that today's heroes who have done this phenomenal job are also with us on the call. So we have Pankaj Mital, we have Gauba, we have Kunal Malani, we have Vaaman from the chairman's office side, from the, we have Sahil, who has just joined us and comes from your fraternity, but a long, long, long Motherson.
I wish you all that you will ask questions to them because this day definitely belongs to all of them, the youngsters. Thank you very much, and we'll be back to you.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the touch-tone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Anyone who wishes to ask a question at this time, they may please press star and one. The first question is from the line of Vinay from Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Hi team, congratulations for a very good set of numbers. Performance across divisions is very impressive. And I have two questions. Firstly, we see a very high minority interest number. So is this all reflective of strong performance coming from joint ventures in China? Is that correct? Secondly, globally, as you know, a lot of suppliers and OEMs are talking about the semiconductor issue. What is Motherson getting a sense from its own customer set? And lastly, I would also sort of add that it's good to see the EV order book number that you've started to share in the presentation. So very encouraging to see that the company actually has a pretty sizable presence on the dedicated EV platforms. But yeah, back to my two questions. Thanks.
Gauba, can you take the first one?
Yes, sir. Thanks a lot, Vinay. I think what is clear is SMRPBV results. So as you can see, SMRPBV has posted highest EBITDA of 10%+, and how the SMP has turned around or the greenfield as well as the other performance has improved. So as we are all aware that 49% of SMRPBV is held by Siemens, while the performance of the other joint ventures of the group, whether it be PKC joint ventures in China or SMP joint ventures, they continue to perform. But with the SMRPBV number producing such a number, so the 49% share of SMRPBV has also been shown as a minority interest.
Right, right, right. And sir, secondly, on the greenfield side? Sorry, on the semiconductor issue?
Sir, you want to talk a little bit more on the EV issue? Waman, can you?
Semiconductor issue.
Oh, you're talking about semiconductors. Look, semiconductors is basically a car maker's issue. It's not our issue per se. We use a little bit of electronics and all that in our wiring harnesses and junction boxes and all that. Pankaj, do you want to add something over there?
Yes, sir. We are not using much of semiconductors, sir. So we're not affected so much. But as you are, I think you're talking in general about the industry that there has been a shortage of semiconductors, about that. So yes, I mean, it's there in the market that there are shortages of semiconductors and that customers globally are trying to secure and trying to see what volumes they can manufacture or they can get the security. So so far, the continuity has been there. The car makers have been producing their vehicles, and there may be some tweaking of volumes by them, if at all. But I think that's something which will definitely be known in the market when it comes.
Waman, do you want to ask something? Sorry, last question.
Lastly, could you note in the past we've talked about greenfield turnaround at SMP contributing to better margins in the future in SMP? So has that turnaround fully played out now, or is there more left on that side? That's it. Thanks.
No, definitely there is more upside there. We hit a break-even in EBITDA in the last quarter and continue to improve, and I think, of course, now it's no longer classified as a greenfield since it's been with the group now for a while, so we have started to focus more on building up the profitability, and I'm sure you'll see even better performance in coming quarters as they now push on from where they were at break-even.
Great, great. Thanks a lot. I'll come back and take you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kapil Singh from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Hi sir. Firstly, congratulations to the entire team on a great set of performance. Sir, my question is, we've talked about this thing in terms of cost reduction efforts which had been going on, and we just didn't expect the results to come in so soon. When you look at the structural cost benefits which have come in, could you talk about which are the areas where you have been able to structurally reduce costs as business scales up going forward, the costs which will not come back, and what are those things or levers which are still left which can come in future?
Sure. I can talk a little bit, and I'm sure Pankaj Sir can also join me on that. I think operationally, definitely during the lockdown and shutdown period, we looked at our costs. We looked at relayouting, bringing in necessary upgrades, etc., that we were really not able to do at that time. So all those kind of things continue to go on. It's a cost reduction process. It's something that is always happening at Motherson. It's not only for a specific one quarter or something like that. And of course, yet we're seeing a very tight control on all the travel and those kinds of costs which has to get to really come back. And I think going forward also, we will have a good control on them. But Pankaj Sir, can I?
Yeah. And on the standalone side, on the domestic side also, what you would see is that we had set up a lot of facilities considering the volumes from the customers. And as the volumes have come back and they have been achieved, so it's a better utilization of all our resources. And we kept ourselves prepared to meet those volumes as they will come from the customers and maintained our teams and all the readiness at our end. And that really helped us to gain more and more.
Okay. And could you also talk about the areas on which you are working further going ahead in terms of cost reduction?
Look, I think everywhere we have to look at ways to counter costs. I think we're also seeing raw materials, etc., that are going a little bit higher where most of us, it is a warehouse space, it's a pass-through, but on the rest of the commodities also, we have to look at ways that we can look at our sourcing, bring the group more together, bring in synergies, do more bundling. I mean, these are constant things that we keep looking at and constantly chipping away at also at the costs of the manufacturing lines, bringing in more automation, trying to figure out how to increase the efficiencies, loading up our plants in a good way where we see our diversification strategy 3CX15 and now moving to 3CX10 really helps to push through some of these initiatives that we take for cost reduction.
It's in every place in our company. There's not only just one particular focus as such.
Okay. Thanks. And on revenue?
We have our company mantra, which is called C2A2C, which means cut cost at all costs.
Right. Sir, could you also lastly talk about revenue traction? What are the new business areas where we are seeing success, new technology areas? Any initial signs you are seeing there?
Are you talking about the new verticals or are you talking about automotive?
I'm talking about new upcoming technologies on the auto side.
So definitely, there's always a lot of innovation on the automotive side. I mean, look at the places that we are playing in, in the bumpers or interiors and interior side. There are always newer lighting technologies, material technologies, all sorts of things, manufacturing technologies that are coming in. It's a continuous process. And definitely, as you're seeing the launch of the new vehicles, you'll see a lot more newer technologies that are coming to life with all sorts of different aspects.
Okay. Thank you. Thanks, and wish you all the best.
Thanks.
Thank you. A reminder to participants, if you wish to ask a question, please press star and one. The next question is from the line of Abhishek Sardar from Hem Securities. Please go ahead.
Hello.
Yes, we can hear you.
Hello. Am I audible?
Yes, we can hear you, Abhishek. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Yes. Congratulations on great set of numbers. So the first question I would like to ask is, since the customs duty on certain auto parts has increased to 15% in this budget, so how do you see the decision with respect to various auto part companies and how Motherson Sumi would be impacted by this decision?
Chaand Sir, should I answer this?
Yeah, yeah. Sure. Sure. Go ahead.
Today, all of you guys except you, Congressman, we are all driving.
See, primarily, as you know, we are very highly vertically integrated, and we are focused on localization in a very big way. So since 1988, 1989, we have been localizing the parts. We have been building a very strong base, which is of global quality levels, and that's how we created a very strong business, and so customs duty is wide. We do import some of the parts, and those are parts which are specified by car makers as we are supplying integrated products to them, and they need to match up with some of the units which they decide. But most of the rest of the things, generic things, we have been able to localize in India, and that's really which helps us to remain competitive.
Okay. So thank you. And the next question, sir: the condition in Europe is still not very good due to COVID-19. So I would like to ask, right now, what is the capacity utilization of European plants, and how do you see demand in European markets in the coming quarters?
Yeah, so of course, in the last lockdown, all the factories, etc., have already been open. We have not seen any lag in the demand because of, of course, the fundamental need is there. People are opting for personal mobility options, and we have seen a good pull from the customer, and that continues. We're hopeful that the vaccines are getting circulated at a rapid pace and things come to a good normal, but the inherent demand is there, and we see it continue.
Okay. Okay. So thank you. I'll come back.
Don't confuse lockdown with factory. If you are a visitor to the markets or into the bars and restaurants and all that, there is a lockdown. But in the industry, in the suburbs, there are no lockdowns. So please distinguish. Thank you.
Right. Thank you. And all the best. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next question is from the line of Nishant Vass from ICICI Securities. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Hi sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congratulations on a great set of numbers. So my first question is on SMP. Obviously, we haven't called out the greenfield portion, but out of curiosity, I was wondering, you said it is just break-even or a little above break-even. So is my understanding that ex of these facilities and taking the last quarter's run rate, that your core non-greenfield operations are already closer to 11% EBITDA? Is that the right understanding?
We can't comment on individual plants in the greenfield. We have been giving you a view of the greenfields in the past because of sheer size, but now that they have all broken even in the past quarters and pushing towards profitability, we see them improving and getting to the average level of SMP. Of course, there's a bit to go, but you have to understand that this quarter's performance for SMP is not only a greenfield plant. It's also the existing plants that have put in a tremendous amount of effort to improve their cost structures, improve the efficiencies, and deliver a strong result, and we believe just that expectation with the rest of the plants is that they continue to improve and push it higher and reach our growth targets.
Lila Irwan, I think I was alluding to the same, but if I can try my luck and ask it in a different way, when do you think you now anticipate your greenfields to kind of come to a trend trajectory on an aggregate basis? What do you think that could be a reasonable time frame?
Yeah. I think definitely three to six months, we should continue to still see improvements there. I mean, in a short term, but in a long-term manner, we have plans to, again, bring it up to the SMP average, if not better, because these are all new plants. We have the latest technologies, and once we sorted out a lot of the ground issues that we had, there's no reason why they should not perform as per, again, the averages of SMP in general, and it's not better.
Perfect. My second question is, obviously, thanks for the breakdown on the electric contribution on the order book side. You, Raman, in your previous call, you mentioned that the contribution on electric as the share of current revenue still remains low single digit. So from a directional basis, as this order book contribution of electrification comes on your revenue, how does that kind of, does the content of the vehicle kind of go up? Or how does that, on a broad basis, how does that look for SMRPBV?
So it's definitely increasing. I mean, if you order book that you see right now, these are vehicles that we haven't even started producing yet. And of course, there is an increasing trend towards launching more and more EV vehicles and variants that's happening over there. How successful they are and how deeply they penetrate the overall market is something that everybody has a different opinion on. But for us, definitely, as the electric vehicles come into a larger play, there is more content because they are differentiated more by feature content, having a lot more latest technology, electronics, lighting. They want to make those cars a lot lighter, so a lot of lighter technologies, certain process materials. A lot of that stuff also comes into play, it's not only a pricing thing over there. So definitely, as this order book increases and we see the value also going up.
How much is difficult to quantify because really depends on we have so many different products, variants, models. So it really depends what order we have gone from model to model.
Understood. And sorry, let me just phrase one more question and come back in queue. On Pankaj Sir, on PKC, how is the trajectory expected to move forward? Because the ordering cycles in Clark Heights seem to be quite robust, the production is still lower. What is your expectation of how PKC trends in next year?
See, as far as the policy is concerned, this is for India and in India, all the CV business we do as MSSL. So that CV business is also in India is growing and it's coming back to better volumes. As far as PKC is concerned, there was a big lowering of numbers of truck manufacturing in the North American side, which has also started to come back as you would have seen that the order bookings have been very, very strong there. So we do see that it's coming back. Also, PKC is on a winning spree, so getting more orders from the customers. And that will continue to make it a very strong global player in years to come as these new orders will come in after a few years into mass production also.
So we will continue to grow and continue to remain a very strong player. And we also saw very good growth coming in China as well.
Sure. Thanks a lot. All the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Amin Pirani from CLSA. Please go ahead.
Hi. Yes. Good afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity. My question was on taking on SMP. Around in the last five years when SMP's margin even before greenfield used to be lower than SMR, I think one of the things that you continually mentioned that it's a five-year ordering cycle and it is not easy to start improving margin from day one, which is well understood. So I was just curious, this SMP profitability, is it just a function of the cost initiative that you have taken or you have seen some of these order refreshes, newer orders, and that cycle which you had talked about for a long time, that's also reflecting in the pricing and the profitability of SMP?
Yeah. I mean, I think it's a combination of all those things. Of course, when you win newer orders, you have an ability to start them from scratch and be able to plan better. You have learnings. The new greenfields have already gone through one cycle of program. Whenever the new ones start coming in, you can deliver much better. And that's the objective of all the teams from winning them at competitive pricing and then working through a two-year development period, timing your suppliers, your manufacturing processes, everything, and being able to deliver them at profitability better than what you envisaged and trying to push up those margins closer to 40% as you start delivering these businesses. But there are risks and opportunities depending on how the plant is doing. Some do much better. Some are not able to capture all of those opportunities.
By and large, we do push quite significantly as the plant gets more mature to be able to deliver higher efficiencies on programs as they're launching. I think the teams have done a phenomenal job to showcase that. If you look at what we did in SMR when we built the new greenfields, we went through the same thing. Our profitability came down significantly as we were making those investments. There were a lot of trainings, costs, etc., that were there before the volumes we took off. Similar thing you're seeing in SMP. Of course, it took a little bit longer because of the issues that we've talked about in the past, which were new for us.
But again, as the plants are getting more mature and are being with the group for a longer period of time, we are being able to produce better results, and that's how we continue to grow.
Thanks. That's helpful. Secondly, I just wanted to get an update on the CAPEX plan for any update on the CAPEX outlay for FY21 and any initial spend for SI22 on a consolidated basis.
Yeah. I'm Gawad Hussain. This year, we had given a guidance for INR 2,000 crores. Based on the current visibility, we find that we will be well within that. In fact, could be lower than that. And while for next year, we are still in the process of finalizing the budget, but it should be in the range of INR 2,000 crores plus minus. You also have to appreciate that the euro has also appreciated to the currency level. So for last CapEx, which was coming on the greenfield, we find that our current order book can be serviced by our existing plants.
Thanks. That's helpful. And just one clarification. There has been a significant reduction in net debt on the cash flow side on a consolidated basis. But just, I'm curious, the standalone debt seems to have increased since the end of last financial year. So I mean, any reason why that is happening on the standalone side?
Because we had also given that commentary in September results that we have leverage on the standalone India liquidity and the lower interest rate to take the overall advantage of the interest cost. So whatever incremental debt you find at the standalone has gone to intercompany balances between consolidated and standalone.
Understood. Okay. Great. Thank you. I'll come back with you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Nikhil Kale from Axis Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for taking my question. Most of my questions have been answered. Just had one question on the group organization reorganization plan. So when you had announced it, you had talked about the deal, I mean, the merger of SAMIL into MSSL being EPS accretive in FY22. Now, given the sharp improvement that you've seen in SMRPBV business, would it be fair to assume that the deal, I mean, the EPS is already I mean, there has been some accretion in the EPS. Would the EPS of the restructured of the new entity be higher than the reported numbers?
Yeah. Hi, Kunal here. Look, I think you're probably right. We frankly haven't worked out the numbers, but you should see some details around it coming out in the next few days. But yes, on the face of it, when you see what we had said would be EPS accretive in FY22 should likely be EPS accretive now itself.
Okay. Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Raghunandan N.L. from Emkay Global. Please go ahead.
Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. Congratulations on extremely strong performance. Most of my questions are answered. A couple of questions. Firstly, on EV side, order book is impressive for SMRPBV. Any update you can provide on EV side efforts by the wiring harness divisions? And secondly, Motherson recently acquired Plast Met EPS accretive acquisition. Just wanted to understand, are more acquisition opportunities coming up in the market? Company's debt is reducing and liquidity is also strong. So how are you looking at acquisitions going forward?
Over to you, Pankaj . Yeah. I'm Pankaj Mital. So on the wiring harness side, we are well aligned with our customers as we have been talking about it in the past as well. That, with the acquisition of PKC, we already had a rolling stock division in that where we were doing high-voltage harnesses for the trains for a very long time. And using that know-how, we had developed the Center of Excellence, which is already providing the high-voltage wiring harnesses for European customers like for the buses and for also the trucks and developing also the junction boxes. So we have created this Center of Excellence with people in India, Europe, and America so that we can support all our customers. We already have the orders to support our customers who are going into the trucks into electrification, also supporting customers who are acquiring prototypes and everything.
So even on the two-wheeler side as well as on that side as well globally, both on the North American and European side and in India as well. So we are well aligned with our customer base in that. Thanks. On the acquisition side, I think yes, we are getting a lot of opportunities. I think we have to be careful in today's market, the valuation, etc., that everything is at a premium. But I think that doesn't deter us. If the customers are telling us where they want us to be, we will definitely go after those. We have a lot of opportunities that are coming to the table as the moratoriums, etc., are all going away. Not only companies that could be in some trouble, but also companies that are doing well.
They're all coming to the market as people believe that maybe it's a good time to exit.
Motherson is a buyer in this market. So if there is something that makes sense, we see a path to giving a good 40% growth to our shareholders and that the customers are supporting us, we will definitely go for it. So please keep watching this space.
Thank you, sir. Thank you very much and all the best.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ashish Kumar Agrawal from Axis Bank Limited. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. Congrats on the set of numbers and the way greenfield is turning around in Q2. I just have a small question related to direction of growth in future. Do you think going forward the growth may come from greenfield or acquisitions? So while greenfield may take larger time to turn around due to initial teething issues, acquisitions bring profitability in shorter time. So has there been any thought process in that direction? Thank you.
Yes. Thanks for that question. Definitely, I think acquisitions will play a large part, and as we are getting more orders, I mean, currently we don't have any large new greenfields on the anvil. We have a small plant in Serbia for SMP for some vertical integration, but we don't have any large-size greenfields at the moment. All the capacities have been built for the order book and can take more as well, but yes, if we win another large order in this time, we will not hesitate to put in greenfield plants. We put in a large number in the last five-year period and all are doing well. Even the last couple that were quite talked about, I think we have sorted out those issues. The customer is very happy with how we have turned it around, so I think all avenues are open for growth.
But, definitely, in terms of size, I think acquisitions will play a large part because we are ready to do some large acquisitions.
Thank you. Okay.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Basudeb Banerjee from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Congrats on great beat on numbers, sir. Just wanted to understand if I look at SMR revenue, which is hardly 10% below all-time high levels. But gradually, if one looks at EBITDA margin moving from 10% to 11%, now roughly stabilizing around that 13% level barring Q4 seasonality. So from a long-term perspective, how to look at that and model in our numbers where the equilibrium between your pricing and competitive intensity will come into play? Going by the track record, how SMR margins have been moving up. So how to look at that from a three, four, five-year angle, sir?
Look, I think growth is focused on Motherson, but not every company will be giving their growth at the same time. Some ones who are making investments, someone like SMR in the last few years have been making very focused advancements on cutting their costs and making sure that their EBITDA margins are improving while top line may not be increasing that much if they geared up to do an acquisition. So growth will come from different parts of the group at different times. At any time, of course, like we said, we're focused on growth. EBITDA margins do play a part of it. But as long as they're doing better in their growth, that's what we look for. SMR does 40% plus growth, which is fantastic. They continue now. The next target is to go more than 50%.
So you can continue to expect that improvements will keep coming. And surely, they will also get a chance to do an acquisition, which will help their top line growth as well. Just like the other verticals have their own growth targets. So going for 36 billion, definitely you can expect top line growth with a very focused approach on the bottom line as well to deliver that growth.
Sir, if I try to understand, say, in the last couple of years where SMR's revenue...
Hello. Just, I want to add what...
Yeah.
If you look at it in quarter and quarter and all that, you might say it's a flattish or small growth or something like that. But when we acquired this company 10 years ago, they were at EUR 500 million. Was the turnover? EUR 524 million, if I remember right. Now they're at about EUR 1.6 billion - EUR 1.7 billion. They've grown four times in 10 years and delivered a phenomenal bottom line. So please keep that. All teeth are not meant to chew only. Some are supposed to bite. Some are supposed to digest. It's a natural course, yeah.
That's very interesting. That's valuable, sir. But just was trying to understand that if I look at last four years, not 10 years, if SMR revenues were largely flattish, but the margins moved up from 10%-11% to 13%-14%. So is it purely a function of cost-cutting initiatives as there is no operating leverage in play, or the product profile has increased substantially, or your pricing power has increased substantially? So from that angle, if you can explain, sir.
Yeah. Sure. I think, of course, cost-cutting issues are always there. We have been doing, and the mirrors are places where you're seeing a lot more feature content also come in. We talked about logo lamps, side-turn blinkers, power folds, actuators, more electronic content that's really coming over there. So that is there. And of course, we're also making inroads at doing more backward integration into seeing what all we can do to continually improve, again, deliver the growth and do make-buy decisions where it makes sense, make the necessary investments. So it's a continuous thing. It's not one direction. It has to be a multi-pronged approach to give that sort of a result, even in a case where the revenues are not growing as much. And please understand that we give discounts year on year to the customer as well. So that is also there.
Yet they are maintaining their top line and growing top line and bottom line. So we believe it's okay. And they will also wait for a good time to do an acquisition and, again, shorten that growth journey as well. So we don't rush from our side. It's a group that we give a target for, not individual companies. And they will all go through different times where some will look to acquire and some will stay more focused on delivering the cost efficiency.
Sure, sir. Second thing as for standalone business, ex-DWH or even DWH, margins are roughly around that 15% level now, whereas against your good level margins of 18%-20%. So how to look at that 15% trajectory going back towards 20%? Is it a pure function of operating leverage scale or corporate inflation? How to look at that, sir?
On Gauba this side, sir, should I take on this?
Yeah, sir.
You're very far away from the mic.
You're very far away. Your voice is very hard to come out without knowing about the other.
Okay. Okay. Is it better? So I can take this question, sir. First of all, just to clarify, our EBITDA margin, I mean, though we don't guide you on EBITDA margin and we would rather look at the return on capital employed, is for the quarter 18.4% versus 16.9% on a like-to-like basis. Because as we have clarified, when you look at the DWH and non-DWH, then you will add up the turnover will go up because of the intercompany eliminations which happens when the standalone is being consolidated. So that should give you a comfort that the margin, and again, not guiding you on, but I want to make sure that all of us are on the same page, is 18.4%.
Sure, sir. And last thing, any risk of crude inflation on plastic business margin as such down the line?
So again, I take this question, but these are all engineered plastics and all that that we use, so it's not the crude is not so much of a risk, but yeah, there might be some effects. So depending upon what eventually will happen, it will be either addressed or taken care of.
Sure, sir. Thanks. All the best, sir.
Unless you're planning to take crude to $100 or something.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Ganesh Gandhi from Motilal Oswal Financial Services. Please go ahead.
Hi, sir. My question pertains to SMRPBV. So in this quarter, we have seen a very smart reduction in working capital now, it's at about 10 days. So is this more of a sustainable number or there is some seasonality to this?
Kunal, you want to take that? Sorry, could you repeat the question?
So for SMR PBV, we have seen operating working capital has come down to 10 days as against about 17-18 days for same quarter last year. So is this the sustainable level which we are looking for working capital for SMR PBV, or there is any one-off or any seasonality in this?
Okay. So look, if you remember, in the last few years, we've been talking about the growth in the order book. And as those orders come into fructification and they go into production, the tooling inventory, which was fairly high in SMRP, has reduced quite considerably. And that is really a function of how the order book plays out. As the new orders trickle in, some of it might go back up. But largely, other than the tooling inventory, the rest of it is relatively stable state.
Okay. Got it. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Bye.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Pramod Kumar from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks, and congratulations on the research number. So my first question pertains to the production outlook, the way you are looking from your customers for the coming quarter, because there's been widespread, what do you say, investor communication from a lot of companies on the impact on semiconductors. Some of that could be out of abundant caution. But the way you're looking at the production schedules from your key customers, are you seeing directionally things getting better or kind of the production levels taking a pause at the 3G level, sir? This is more of the global levels, SMRPBV.
Yeah. I think I've been reading the Financial Times. Yesterday, I think today, they were actually talking about semiconductor boosting and how to utilize this funding with even more production and more to see more there. So I think each country will have its own pluses and minuses and all that. While a lot of our estate customers are facing some problems on that, I think it could be related more to the electronic portion of the car and all that. And I think people have already figured out what has to be done and changes have been brought in. But I don't think the numbers are going to be huge or something. But yeah, I think, again, these are very short-term effects. These are not long-lasting effects. As soon as the supply chain is figured out, I mean, of course, the inherent demand is there. So customers are pulling.
So people will figure out they could have an impact for one month, two months. But nothing that we see is going to have a long-lasting effect. And again, in the automotive space, one quarter is a very short period of time. So we're not so concerned about it in that aspect because, like we said, the more important aspect where the inherent demand is there, the customers are wanting to catch up on the lost stuff that all of us were impacted in last year. Everybody wants to catch up. So of course, this is kind of a positive thing, but there's shortage because the demand is so strong that people cannot supply as much. And again, the markets will figure out a way to solve that as well. So yes, immediate, very short term, this is something that's an issue.
But with the carmakers also, I think if you think about it, the carmakers are also diverting the chips and all these things to the more cars that give them more bang for their buck kind of a thing. So look, you can look at it any way that you want. There are cars which don't use too much of electronics and all that. But when you want to do the emission controls and all that in real time and all that, you need those particular things over there. So it depends upon the carmaker, the amount of electronics he's using as required. But I can also vouch for it that a lot of the chip makers and all that, and you would be much more knowledgeable about this, are really working overtime to catch up with the demand and all that.
Yeah. That perfectly applies, sir. I think that's a very useful color. The second question is to Gauba, sir, on the commodity impact. We've seen that copper has had a massive rally this quarter, and you guys have managed very well on the financials. So just wanted to understand a bit more from Gauba as to how exactly you navigate the commodity bit. And in terms of the agreement with the OEMs, how does exactly the lead lag work in terms of transition of the commodity price inflation to the customers?
I think, Pramodji, you have the question as well as the answer. As you are well aware that we have a pass-through. Yes, when the prices are going up, there will be an impact. So when the price goes up, there is an impact. When the price comes down, it gets reversed. So I think we have to wait for the previous price to come down. But as of now, yes, the prices are going up. So whatever is the contractual arrangement, they continue.
Okay. And from the immediate next three to six months, sir, do you see anything else in terms of the commodity basket for you buying plastic, which could be a bit of an inflationary pressure?
I think it is very difficult to forecast what the commodity prices or what oil price or copper prices will be. But as Mr. Sehgal said, as far as the plastics are concerned, we are using very specialized plastics, which do not vary in proportion to the oil prices and all that. And copper, we have already discussed. So we have to just look for future how the prices shape up. I don't think we have necessarily know-how and tool to forecast where the prices will go.
Fair enough. Thanks, sir.
Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah.
Problems. If they are going up in a big way, then your question is right. But just crude going up is not going to move the needle too much.
That's great to hear, sir. And Chand sir, given the whole bounce back from COVID has been so better than anyone's expectation globally, and then a lot of, what do you say, distressed companies have got a lifeline and probably they'll have some more runway. And at the same time, you have issues like the semiconductor shortage, which again further reinforces the requirement for a solid supply chain and much stronger vendors. So given all this, do you see the next opportunity for Motherson in terms of as a preferred customer or a preferred company to kind of take out weaker players and kind of help out the OEMs, that kind of a pull being much more stronger than this time around as compared to where you were in your positioning with the OEMs post-GFC? How do you see that relationship, sir?
Honestly, you're right that the amount of liberal funding that the company got did give them a little bit of, how do you say, lifeline, if you want to say that. But if you look at it over a period of time, they actually became weaker. The debts have gone up even more and things like that. So if there is a small disturbance somewhere, these companies will be hit very badly. So that's the reason why Motherson has tried to become very strong on the balance sheet, reduce their debt, reduce everything, operating margins, wherever we are losing money, how do we fix it? And those kind of teams, as I told you, these youngsters have done a brilliant job. All of them have worked the midnight oil to make the company very strong. So definitely, we are waiting.
But one very clear thinking in Motherson, which is shared by us oldies and the youngsters, is that we are not going to wake up in the morning to decide what do we have to buy or what do we have to receive. We will wait on the time-tested model of waiting for the customer to tell us, "Chand, have a look at this," or, "Waman, have a look at this." That kind of mentality is definitely going to be maintained. So while a lot of great bankers come and tell us, "This is very weak now, this is very weak now," we don't get excited by that.
Yes. Rightly so, sir. Great. Thanks a lot, and I wish you all the best, sir. Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Kapil Singh from Nomura. Please go ahead.
Yeah. So just one follow-up. On this EV order book, can you share what are the top products which are there that we have been successful in supplying?
This is the SMR PBV order book that we're showing for EV. So it's interiors and exteriors. So bumpers, dashboards, wheel frames, compute modules, and of course, mirrors as well.
Okay. Waman, could you also share some flavor in terms of when we have these mirrors or dashboards or bumpers, how are they different from the traditional ICE vehicles?
So if you think about it, I think if you look at what the customers are trying to throw at the EV, they are obviously trying to sell a more feature-rich car, a lot more electronics, a lot more like a futuristic sort of a concept into these cars that of course drives up the value in it. And so you see a lot more electronics, a lot more lighting, a lot more materials that are used that are focused on lightweighting, where the EV has a strong focus on lightweighting. So those are the kind of things that we see that are slightly different from the traditional combustion engine variants. But that doesn't mean that they don't want to sell combustion engine cars. Of course, the bread and butter right now, just for the majority of the cars.
So the features also trickle into that and continue to grow and see value content growing in that as well. But of course, the EVs are a little bit different in that way that they are very much positioned for the future.
Okay. And this order book does not include PHEVs, MHEVs kind of products, right? And it also doesn't include the EV variants of existing cars. Is that correct?
That's right. It's pretty much 100% focused on EV. The other variants, etc., because for us, our products are engine-agnostic. There may be products that have overlap or might have slight differences. So we don't really get into those details. It doesn't really affect us that much.
Would you have an idea how much of it if you were to include those, how much does it go up to?
We'd have to look at it. Maybe we can try to look into that and come back with more color next time. We thought maybe we'll try this as a first to give you a flavor. But we take your feedback and we'll look into it.
No, this is quite helpful. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you. The next question is from the line of Chirag Shah from Edelweiss. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. It's a congrats for our group set of members. My question is for Waman on SMR. So from here on, if we have to look at the growth in SMR, would it be more driven by entering into new customers, or it would be more driven by product innovation? At least from this three- to four-year perspective, I know camera-based system is something that we are waiting for discussion. But beyond that, how should we look at SMR as far as growth is concerned? And also, how the cross-selling is helping us because we may not see that in SMR? The customer profile of SMR and even SMP is slightly different. So how is the cross-selling for everything? If you can share some light on it.
So definitely, Chirag, I think SMR is looking at avenues of growth. We talked about acquisition being one part. Where are we under-penetrated? Which customers? For example, on the Japanese side, we still have a relatively low presence over there. So again, these are all avenues that are open for us. We are very, let's say, focused on delivering a higher risk there, so better margins, and not trying to just go for growth there, sacrificing our so it's quite focused. There will be plays of acquisition. There will be ways to enter markets where we are not significantly present. So Russia, Japan, South Africa, just to again give you some ideas where there's still a lot of opportunity for us to grow. We talked about Turkey with the acquisition that would give us a solid play in that country.
A lot of growth opportunities there we've been able to take advantage of with the acquisition. So I think all these things are going to play out in this five-year period. We are definitely looking to increase the top line with the bottom line, but we are not willing to sacrifice the bottom line for that top line growth. In terms of selling, of course, when you're having one company that's very strong with one customer, you get an opportunity, of course, to showcase your entire product portfolio. And that is happening. I think the great leap that SMR, SMP are making, we're always talking about, which is the new plans that they're setting up. What are the new possibilities to bring in more suppliers? You can piggyback on some of the investments.
I think the reorganization is going to be a big part of that as well, bringing everything into one platform. Again, this is something which is a big growth opportunity for us in this five-year period, and hopefully, it should play out much better once we have the entire reorganization done and one platform being there for the ability to cross-sell and increase our customer penetration.
This is helpful. Secondly, on this semiconductor, sorry to come back again on that. Between passenger cars and because we also have PKC, and PKC, where is the bigger challenge, at least from short-term perspective? Is it more on the SMR side on the car side, or is the challenge more on PKC side, or is it similar in nature for both the businesses? From the end customer perspective.
Chirag, again, this is a very short-term immediate issue that you're talking about. Definitely, the car makers are being more vocal about it at this time. But again, if you're looking in the short-term situation, yes, there is an impact, of course, because the car makers are saying so. But again, we don't see it playing out in the long period of time. So we would really not comment so much about something that's only going to affect us for a month or two.
No problem. Lastly, from India perspective, while wiring harness, we know very well, but the plastic components that we have or the polymer product business that we have, if you can shed some light, how to look at the growth in that business, any new wins that we have done where we can see a significant jump in that part of the business?
The Indian polymer side?
Yeah.
Yeah. So the Indian polymer company is great. Of course, that continues to show good results, grow in the Indian context. The capability has been, let's say, enhanced because of the acquisitions of SMP, SMRC, and all of these are part of our polymer vertical now and very well being integrated, talking about which all grow together, share capacity, share investments. And again, that's going to be a big part of the reorganization. But bringing that polymer group as one is a key focus for us and continues to do well. I think they communicate extremely well together and have already shown a lot of progress, saving off costs and CAPEXes by being able to share. And we see a very bright positive outlook from the India side.
The growth in NAICS would be higher than wiring harness, the domestic wiring harness. Is that right, Adam Singh, from NAICS people's perspective?
Sorry?
Chirag, can you please repeat that question?
Hello. Am I audible?
Yeah. You're now audible.
I was asking that from India perspective, the growth in NAICS business could be far higher than the wiring harness business because maybe a market share is also lower over there as compared to the wiring harness side. So can that business really grow much faster, given the way use of polymer is increasing?
Yes. Chirag, you're right, this is Chand here. So that's a hypothetical question. But one of the biggest advantages that Motherson has is we have a lot of international know-how. So SMP, SMRC, and a lot of companies that we have taken over. So NAICS is a natural beneficiary of that because he doesn't have to pay for all those know-hows and technologies, if you understand. So in that sense, yes, you are right.
Thank you. Next question is a follow-up question from the line of Basudeb Banerjee from Ambit Capital. Please go ahead.
Yeah. Thanks, just Mr. Will it be right to assume that in the initial comments you said Kecskemét, Tuscaloosa are breakeven, so is it PBT breakeven? Because I remember last quarter they were almost EBITDA breakeven already.
Yeah. No, we were talking about EBITDA only. The next goal for them is to be PBT breakeven. They haven't got there yet, but we are hopeful that they will get there in the future as well and the performance continues to improve.
That's great. That means without this greenfield, your margin moved up, so core existing plants did remarkably well, and second question, sir, if I recall, three quarters back during COVID times, Sehgal sir was saying that it is tough to acquire companies in Europe because local government support has been there to get sold out at cheap valuations, so what is the state of that aspect now as such? Is it now normalizing or still that support from local governments are there?
Yeah. I think the support has kind of ended now that the industries, etc., have all come back online. So wherever it ends, obviously, it depends from country to country. I mean, for example, in Germany, etc., where they're still on the short-time work schemes or things like that, the support short-term working. So every country is pretty much making its own kind of support systems. Definitely, like we said, that all the plants have remained open during this time. It's not been a complete lockdown where the manufacturing side has shut down. I think all the countries have realized that it's important to keep that going. And wherever people are taking advantage of that, definitely they should, to keep things going. But from our side, all our plants are open. A lot of them are at least pre-COVID levels.
Again, P&L is highlighted a bit on the semiconductor bit, which is a small short-term effect, but we see that things should come back, and we're optimistic about the future.
Sure, sir. And last question, sir, can you some kind of a guesstimate on the timeline for the greenfields becoming PBT positive or breakeven from EBITDA breakeven, sir?
Look, I don't want to comment on individual plants, but I can assure you that going quarter on quarter, we will always see a better performance. That's something for our entire team internally as we go through the budget rounds right now and figure out the next year's plans, which we are doing right now on a very focused basis to make sure that they get there. But with more than 270 plants in the group now, we'd like to keep the focus on the group, not individual plants. I think, like I said, we have broken even those plants. We're pushing for profitability. It's part of the natural process now. There are no real issues to be concerned about over there. So I think that period is behind us.
We should look at the overall growth of SMP moving forward in the top and bottom line with not only the greenfield plants, but now since they are no longer classified as greenfield plants, they're classified as normal plants. Now all of them doing better.
Thanks, sir. All the best. Congrats. Bye.
Thank you.
Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that would be the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Vivek Chaand Sehgal for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Thank you all very much. Thank you to the team. An amazing job done. I want to reassure all of you that other things being the same and no untoward thing happens in the coming time, you will see Motherson doing better and better. We are sure that you will also understand that if we do take over companies and things like that, well, we'll start the fun all over again, and we will go through this because I think that's what Motherson does very well, how to turn companies around. So I hope all of you, your wishes are there for us to take over more companies and to hit our target of 36 million. Thank you all very much. Bye-bye.
Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Motherson Sumi Systems Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you all for joining us. In a minute, I'll disconnect your lines.