Earnings Call: Q2 2021

Aug 19, 2021

Welcome to the Almgren's Interim Report First Half Year of twenty twenty one. For the first part of this call, all participants will be in a listen only mode and afterwards, there will be a Q and A session. Today, I'm pleased to present Rasmus Werner Nielsen. Sir, please go ahead. Thank you. Good morning, and thank you for taking the time to join us on this call on the Anne brand results for the Q2 of 2021. With me today, I have our CFO, Andreas Rogen Maerssen and Head of Investor Relations, Mikael Boraasen. It is a strong set of results that we have announced today that demonstrates that we are successfully executing on the things that we have planned. We have had a very busy agenda in the Q2 of the year, and we have spent a vast amount of both time and resources on the process leading to successful bid for Koda. This is indeed a very big thing for us that will transform our company and define our road map for years to come. But we have still been able to maintain a strong focus on executing on the day to day business, and this is exactly why I'm most satisfied with the results. Well, let me walk you through our results for the quarter. Please turn to Slide 2. In the Q2, we have witnessed a very positive development in our business. We have seen a return to a more normal business environment following the reopening Of the society, we welcome this as it allows us to meet face to face with our customers again. Also, our partnerships are making progress, and they start to contribute meaningfully to our overall premium growth. The ongoing operational changes that we are making to our business is reflected in our profitability. The initiatives that we have been implementing are making the core of our business more efficient, and eventually, this flows down to the key numbers like the claims ratio. Our focus will remain on both growth and cost initiatives as we strive for improving profitability further. Please turn to Slide 3. The group made a pretax profit of DKK244,000,000 in the Q2 of the year against DKK328,000,000 in the Q2 last year. As you may see from the table on the right side, non Life is up quarter on quarter, Life is slightly down and other activities are significantly lower. The key takeaways are that the underlying profitability and cost development are very satisfying, That non Life profit includes a one time positive contribution from change in risk margin, but a lower than last year positive contribution from investment results and that other activities includes a one time negative contribution for primarily costs associated to the acquisition of Koda, that is both consultancy fees and warranty and indemnity insurance as well as a negative investment result. All in all, this has been another quarter where we have demonstrated that we are advancing steadily on all factors that we can control. This means that the half year pretax results amounts to 3.81 million, which is slightly up compared to last year. Back in June, we increased our full year guidance, reflecting a strong development in our underlying business. We hold on to the overall guidance, but we'll make some change to how we see the different parts moving in the rest of the year. I will, as always, get back to this at the end of my presentation. And now please turn to Slide 4 for a short comment on the development in Kuden. Yesterday, Kuden announced the First half result, we are, of course, pleased with the positive numbers that indicate that progress is being made on the broad scale. Premiums growth totaled 1.7 percent and at the same time, combined ratio improved from 100 to 92, I. E, a notable improvement of 8 percentage points. The positive development was driven by huge change in the commercial lines following some of the initiatives launched to restore profitability, but also Private had a fine development leading to a combined ratio just below 83. The technical results increased by more than €100,000,000 And excluding run offs, the technical results increased by close to €200,000,000 These are numbers pointing in the right direction. And now please turn to Slide 5. We have a process in front of us that we will follow step by step in the coming months. On top of this, we have launched a full catalog of actions to prepare ourselves for the acquisition of Koda next year, thus facilitating a swift takeover. The next step we are looking at is the upcoming EGM in early September, where we will make the formal decision to allow for the capital increase in Ant brand, which will take place within the next month. And on a special note, the association has informed us that they expect to participate with an additional €500,000,000 thus increasing their stake in the forthcoming capital increase to €4,250,000,000 And now back to the Q2 results on Slide 7. The noncash business made a very strong pretax profit of DKK346,000,000 in the second quarter Of the year, which is comprised of a very satisfactory technical result of EUR 326,000,000 and a positive investment result of €20,000,000 The technical result benefited from a good development in underlying business as well as favorable development in weather related claims. Also, the COVID-nineteen pandemic and the subsequent lower activity in general had a direct positive impact on earnings of an estimated €20,000,000 just like we expected. Last year, we applied to the Danish FSA for the extension of our partial internal model for insurance risks. This has been approved as the model has a direct onetime positive economic impact on earnings of €64,000,000 However, after adjusting for this, the technical result came in at €262,000,000 which corresponds to an increase of €25,000,000 against 2nd quarter last year. The runoff results was a gain of €25,000,000 in the quarter, which corresponds to 1.8% and thus at par with what we would normally expect. Our investment strategy is a conservative long term strategy with respect to overall portfolio exposure. And consequently, we have profited from the continued positive development of the financial markets. And now on Slide 8. Premium income grew by 1.7% in the quarter, I. E, an improvement relative to what we have seen in previous quarters. Grundf has been very positive in the commercial segment. We have seen premiums climbed by more than 4% as a result of both influx of new customers an adjustment of prices within especially workers' compensation. In the Private segment, we witnessed a general fierce competition in the motor insurance space, This has affected growth. But although we have adjusted our pricing somewhat and increased the amount of campaigning, then our main focus continues to be on profitability. After the reopening of the society and return to more meetings with our customers, we now see our business momentum improve. On top of this, our partnerships with both Super and Volkswagen Semler Group are up and running. And I'm confident that this coupled with various pricing initiatives will further accelerate growth. The claims ratio, excluding runoff gains, was 65.7% against 67.9% in the Q2 last year. Included in this is an improvement in the underlying business as well as a positive, although lower than last year, effect from fewer claims due to the COVID-nineteen situation. The expense rate was 17.1% and in line with our expectations through the cost savings program we launched last year. As mentioned, the extension of our internal partial model has a onetime positive effect on our results. In terms of the combined ratio, the effect is 4.7 percentage point. All in all, this leads to a combined ratio, excluding run off Gains and change in risk margin of 82.8% compared to 85.4% in the Q2 last year, I. E, a very strong number driven by recurring underlying improvements. The combined ratio, including run off gains, amounted to 76.3. This is an exceptionally low number that reflects the continuing work with the underlying business as well as the tailwind we had in the quarter. Now please turn to Slide 10. For the weather related claims, we have also, in the Q2, seen a very favorable development. Weather has been mild. We know especially when events and claims amounted to only €14,000,000 Likewise, the major claims has developed within the normally expected range and amounted to €74,000,000 adding the 2 together, total claims amounted to €88,000,000 almost flat against €85,000,000 in the quarter, Q2 last year. And now please turn to Slide 11. For the Private segment, the claims ratio was down 4.9 percentage points in the quarter against Q2 last year. Again, this is the combined result of on the one side, the initiatives we are doing to increase profit on the underlying business and on the other side, the positive impact from the extension of the Partial Internal Model. Gorna's gains amounted to a decent 1%, but modest compared to the previous years. And lastly, the expense ratio ticked up as expected as we continue to invest in the rollout and implementation of the new partnerships. For the commercial customers, the combined ratio improved to 73, I. E, significantly lower than in the Q2 last Included herein is also a onetime positive impact from the extension of the Partial Internal Model. But aside from this, underlying performance has been good on the back of the various initiatives implemented, including both price adjustments on several policies, We have found that some customers have been paying too lower premium relative to the expected risk profile and then also a tax control on the cost development. Thus, the expense ratio amounted to a satisfactory level of 14.7, sharply down against the same quarter last year. And now please turn to the Life business on Slide 14. Pre tax profit for the Q1 of 2021 amounted to CHF 23,000,000 against CHF 30,000,000 in the Q2 last year. The technical result amounted to €27,000,000 and reflects a continued satisfactory expense and risk result, which amounted to €13,000,000 On the negative side, the investment result came in at a loss of €4,000,000 as prices on bonds eased down. The bonus rate increased to 17.5% compared to 15.2% at the end of last year as higher interest rate had a positive effect on the life insurance provisions that exceeded the losses on the investment portfolio for the policyholders. Premiums totaled €360,000,000 in the quarter and were made up by €174,000,000 in regular premiums and 142 in single payments. The development in regular payments was flat in the quarter relative to Q2 last year. Although this is partly explainable by the suspicious situation around COVID-nineteen, it will take some extra effort to succeed in reaching a respectable growth this year. For 2021, we still have a deposit rate of 3% for new customers. Some months ago, the FSA announced a regulatory change to the minimum technical rate of interest to minus 0.5% will take from July 1 this year. We have applied for and been granted a postponement of implementing this until the end of this year, and we will then have a setup in place so that we also in the future can cater for customers that prepare our value proposition. And just to be clear about the future of the Life business. Before summer, we announced that we are investigating various strategic alternatives for Life, And we are progressing on this as planned. And then please turn to Slide 17 for the outlook for 2021. Based on the development that we have had in the Q2, that is the strong development in the underlying business as well as due weather related claims and a continued positive investment result, we increased our full year guidance back in June. Following this, we have had 2 additional items that will influence on the results this year. Firstly, The extension of our partial internal model is adding €64,000,000 to our profit in Non Life. This means that the new guidance for Non Life The pretax profit of €800,000,000, I. E, up €75,000,000 compared to the guidance provided back in June. Secondly, other activities include a vast amount of expenses related to the acquisition of Codem, that is both consultancy fees and warranty and indemnity insurance as well as losses on non listed equities and redemption of subordinated capital. Bottom line is that we changed guidance for other activities to a loss of €175,000,000 I. E, down €75,000,000 compared to the guidance provided back in June. No changes to Guidance for Life. Consequently, our guidance for the group pretax profit stands at €700,000,000 to €750,000,000 excluding any run off results for remainder of the year. And just to be clear, The cost rate in Non Life is expected to pick up a little compared to last year to between 17% and 17.5%. And regardless of this, the combined ratio is now expected to be around 87, thus reflecting the increase in our earnings guidance. In total, our guidance reflects a business with all major parts moving as we would like them to. With this, I'll conclude my presentation and hand over the word to our moderator. Thank you. Thank you. And the first question comes from Asbjorn Morg at Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Hi, good morning and congratulations on the good numbers and thanks for taking my questions. So I have a couple of questions on the Operation side to begin and then a little bit on the rights issue. If I may start on the actual non live performance, The €64,000,000 of 1 offs and then €25,000,000 of run offs in Q2, I guess weather ended up being a little bit better at the end of June versus your guidance. So that basically gives me around 2 percentage points Of improvements to your combined ratio, which is also what you're lowering your combined ratio target for this year. So the question really being, How should we interpret this 1st June guidance upgrade? I guess it means, first, that the summer has been largely as expected. And secondly, It doesn't really seem to indicate any major changes to the outlook versus what you saw a couple of months back. Is that sort of correctly interpreted? Yes. This is Andreas here. Yes, as per I'd say that is correctly interpreted to put it shortly. Okay. Then on the growth in the non life, I mean private down, Premiums in private down again in Q2 and the same kind of happened in Q1. I understand your comments on the reopening and the sales process going into the second half, but if I compare with the targets that you have for growth next year, it seems very much like the corporate is delivering as As we could have hoped or expected, but premiums in the private side, of course, much, much less. So how should we look at the growth target for next year? Will that be completely dominated by the corporate? Or should we expect the Citibank and the other agreements to sort of Mean that private will contribute their fair share of the growth? Yes. Espen, I think growth in Commercial, we are very happy with that and very satisfied and is almost at par with what we expect for this year, and it will also be somehow at that level expected next year. Growth in private, of course, we have discussed that for some quarters, is not satisfying. But we need to see that the overall profitability also in private is very, very good. So now, Possibility also in private is very, very good. So now, of course, and we have worked with that for some quarters is to find exactly the balance between Profitable growth and a long term proper relationship with the customers. And that is what we're working on. Coming into next year, Private will also take their part of our growth. And it is exactly the partnerships with Super, We say it's coming very, very good. We have received more than 11,000 leads in first half. It's on target. And that will continue into second half and also the speed up of Semler Group coming in. Please also have in mind that now the initiative we have launched in the partnership area with customers in Suttgart now are able to view their will be very soon able to view their policies insurance policies in their bank app, So to say, it was definitely indicated for a change in the sales environment, and the same goes for the similar Partnership. So we are very confident that also with the reopening of the society, growth in next year will come both from private and All right. That's very clear. A couple of questions on the transaction, hope that's okay. First, You mentioned, Rasmus, the Codan first half figures, which look pretty solid. First, do you have any more insights than just the announcement that came from them? Or is it just basically just you commenting On the press release yesterday, and how does that compare to sort of the base case in your business model when you made the offer earlier this Just a little bit of a comment on that, please. Yes. Andreas here. I mean, we're not able to bring more specific numbers of splits at this point than what we have seen from Codan. But I will say as much as I think the overall story here is that the numbers and we're seeing are showing exactly The narrative that we talked into when we came out, which is that Codan has historically struggled, especially With elevated large claims and profitability in the commercial lines, and there has been Some, let's say, delay in when we could when we would expect to see the full effect of the initiatives they already have in place. So what we see in H1 is basically the traction we were expecting, and we are happy to see that. And to comment on the last part, I would say, to put it roughly, actually, it is a bit better than we have been planning for what we see in H1. All right. That's very helpful. If I look at your Slide 5 in today's presentation, I know that, first of all, that you moved your Q3 reporting date, 1 week forward. I guess that's because you want to get the transaction done as soon as possible. But then I see that you We'll have to wait for antitrust approval before you can actually we'll actually do the rights issue. So just wondering why do you want to move that 1 week forward? And secondly, could you comment a bit on what are sort of the what the deal is subject to? Because I think I seem to be getting a little bit different communication from you and the seller in terms after what? What sort of clauses you have in terms of this agreement, whether you are still legally binded to actually acquire the asset even if the antitrust turned down the deal. So a little bit of comment on that too, please. Yes. I can say we moved it forward 1 week It's simply to get more be more flexible in terms of the timing for the rest of the year. So that is basically it. On your question is that we, in terms of legally binding, we still, we simply wait for the antitrust and the Danish FSA to come up with their, you can say, their approval of the deal. And when then it's done, then we can move on. Sorry, I think just to supplement here, We're not waiting for these approvals in terms of when we can go out with the right decision. Okay. Just this one because what theoretically, I agree that there There shouldn't be any major issues with the antitrust. But theoretically, assuming that they turn down, basically, you won't be able to merge the 2 companies, Would you still legally be required to actually buy the asset? Or will you be out of that deal, so to speak? I mean, to put it roughly, I would say, we have we bear the risk on the antitrust approval, and we will have to make the mitigating That they require to make this deal come through. Okay. That was a very clear answer. And then my final question, basically, Rasmus, you said something about life in the strategic options. I guess you referred to the June announcement, but you didn't give us any much more than that. Could you give us a little bit more flavor on what has happened since June on that part. Actually, I cannot give too much saying. We are just investigating possibilities Either for a sale or for keeping the assets and continue the good development here. So I think that is what we can give at the moment. All right. That was all for my side. Thanks for taking my questions and congratulations on the good numbers. Thank you, Jesper. And our next question comes from Martin Gregorzberg at Carnegie. Please go ahead. Your line is now open. Thanks a lot. Just digging into some of the questions that we have already addressed. First of all, on premium growth, 1.7%, Still struggling in the private area. I guess this is with you being born with 2% premium growth To start with, and this is also you coming from EasyCom's giving, did you have ZILMA and Citbank somewhat up and running? So there must be some kind of drift here. I mean, where is that coming from? Does that still come back To your distribution model or how should we think about this? Yes. I can say that you are touching, I would say, the soft spot in our accounts this time, Please have in mind our distribution model with which we have It's a challenge, of course, under COVID-nineteen. And we have seen that. We had hoped for earlier reopening than what we have seen. So that has We are struggling with that, and that's why we are so happy to see that now the society is opening. I think that is one thing. The cooperation with Semler Group is not really into our accounts yet and is not expected to be in our accounts yet. So that we cannot really take anything from. And then you can say with Sberbank, it's very well underway. We are very happy. It's on track. But of course, it takes some time to get the premiums into our books. So there's a certain delay there of maybe around 3 months or So all in all, I think we are pretty much on track. We have challenges in the distribution area, which we have discussed for for some quarters now, we are launching initiatives, especially on price and certain geographical Areas as well in order to make things more profitable, but also in order to increase sales. Okay. So if we I mean just to sort of to get sort of an underlying view of how Your premiums are developing. So if we are subtracting the Citibank deal from this, what would the 1.7% be? I don't have the figure here, but it will be a little bit low. How much is a little bit lower, 50 basis points? But what is difficult, of course, is to see what It's likely warm and the cold water. What is definitely the soup and would it not have come through if we had used the efforts on other things? So I think it's difficult to say. What I can say is that we have received more than 11,000 leads. And more than 50% of these, we have harvested as new customers. So we are pretty well off in that area. Okay. And in terms of your distribution model, I guess, Lasse, we have been discussing this now for quite some time. I mean, what if clients, they prefer to sit home and have Teams meetings Opposed to having meetings in physical presence, is that going to be a continued challenge on your distribution model? No, but it's of course, I think it's the new way that customers We, of course, need to follow that. We have very strong outbound teams that are only working with meeting face to Basically, via Medias and also some of our distribution people that are meeting people physically are now also able to take these meetings if their clients want it, a customer wants it, they do it also via Ipads and all that. So we are Shifting, you can say the very traditional model to a little bit more model as well. And then we are looking into, you can see the new and greater AM brand with Koden coming in. And there, I would say that then we will Yes. A whole other distribution power, a more broad distribution power than what we have in, you can say, old and brand today. Okay. Is there when we talk about sorry to stick around this premium growth area, but is there an element Of you being squeezed in sort of the top Turk Nordea Danske Bank client swap? I think there's an element at the moment what we are facing, and I've said that for some quarters. In certain areas, there's a very fierce Price competition. And you can say that is an element of changing, you can say, provider. In our case, TARP was the former provider for Supac. And of course, they're not just letting customers go. So we see a very, very fierce price Competition in that area. And that is just one case among others. Okay. Okay. So if you look 1 year forward, that number was supposed to be well, the number next year is supposed to be It was supposed to be 5%. Now it's 4% to 5% premium growth. Why is that not going to be 2.5% or 3%? What are sort of the building blocks From the 1.5% to 2% up to the 4% to 5%. Afterwards I sit back with an impression that you need a great deal of tailwind to make this happen. I think if we look at our business, it's fifty-fifty commercial And private. And with what we see in the commercial side, we have 4% to 5%. And with all the initiatives We have in our book the turnaround we have made. We were very far down last year in the commercial side. It's picked up. We are doing all the right things. We are meeting customers. We're expanding a bit on the size of the customers we're meeting. We're getting an inflow from SuperBank, which is a very strong commercial bank And all that, so the commercial side, I'm very happy about. And it may be that they can do more than 5%. So that is like half. And the other half is then the private part. And I think we talked about a bit about it already. But all the pricing initiatives We have Suttaim coming in, Semler coming up. I'm quite confident that we will be in the upper range of this. Okay. All right. Thank you. I would like to continue with a couple of questions on Life. I guess the announcement that you made on, I guess, it was the 13th June regarding the strategic initiatives. Usually, When an announcement like this comes out, a sale seems to be imminent, but we haven't really seen anything yet. I mean, is there no way that you can give any kind of insight into this? I assume that you want to have a sale in place before the rights issue commences. Is that fair to assume? I cannot give any comment on that, Martin. Okay. But sort of so from a buyer's perspective of your life insurance business, what's the value proposition here? I mean, you have a business that is struggling on premium growth. You have a health and accident business That is profit making, which probably also means that or could you just that prices are too high? And then finally, you have a very old legacy IT system, which could also signals A very large implementation cost for me buyer. I mean, I'm sort of struggling to get my head around this. Is there any way that you can help me here? I don't know. I don't share your views On all your statements, I think we have good growth in the Life company. It is, of course, a little bit demanding at the moment with COVID-nineteen and with the kind of customers we have in life, Being smaller customers with which have struggling a bit with the liquidity, and therefore, they can stop the premiums at the moment. But otherwise, We have I think we have a fair amount of growth there. Then I also think we're driving a Very profitable life company, the most profitable, at least I know. And there are things we can do In order to improve profitability, if we really wanted it, now we are driving this as a going concert, and we will continue to do that. So it is over the many years, it's been driven very cost effective. Then you're right. We are driving. We have a legacy system. It's old, but it's running, and it's very easy to change. So you can say, is that good or bad? At the moment, I think it's actually quite good with all the demanding It's a comment from AFSA. We can incorporate that in systems because we can do that fairly easy because it's well known. So Julien, of course, you can put a negative or positive, but I think we have a very good asset and a very attractive asset as well. So, yes. Okay. So, if and let's assume that you're going to stick with You're a life company because you can't get the multiple that you want. What kind of imminent levers would there be to push up profits in your life company? I think I will not get back into that right now. I see what we see now is a very good Bottom line, so to say, in life, which we are happy with, and that can maybe increase a bit. But for now, it's steady business. It's good business, and it's profitable business. But isn't it selling? Isn't it well, selling the life company, isn't that a vital tool in order to complete this golden transaction? Of course, you can live without it, but it would be easier With money in the bank to put it No, I don't it has nothing to do with it, John. You can say what we are aiming for, if something is true, to have a more streamlined group. That's also why we sold off the bank last year in order only to focus on non Life, and we couldn't come in with we get try to speak in non Life. So Life will be even smaller percentage of the total group. I think that is the most important thing. Okay. Very clear. Just a final question for bookkeeping. The negative 125, what's the split here? Are there different components? I think I can try to help you out there. The main components are, as we've already touched upon, cost related to Codan. And how much is that? Yes. But I'd say it's about €90,000,000 as we also put in the H One statement. That covers, just to be clear, the total amount of costs we expect from these types of transaction costs For 2021. And then we have had some adverse developments. We have a single unlisted equity called the Bella Hospitality Group, which you can go in and if you follow that story, The existing investors basically were written down to 0 following their capital raise recently. And that explains most of the difference up to the total number. Okay. All right. Appreciate it. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Our next question comes from Pierre Gronwerk I think I will limit myself to 3 or 4 questions. 1st of all, the big picture, it looks like Q2 underlying is just as good as Q1 underlying was bad, at least on the numbers we can see. Is this pure lock, unlock? Are there other drivers we should be aware of? Yes. Hi, Pia. We this is not lock. It is, as you say, the underlying business we're talking into here. And if you adjust for COVID, we're almost 4 percentage points better in In terms of underlying combined, and I would say that is the effect from the profitability initiatives We've had in place both in terms of securing the right premium versus risk levels, but also, I would say, the continued improvements we see in the claims handling area with increasing Ambitions also for this year, we start to see the effects there. So and then we are, as you we've talked upon earlier, we're also able to deliver costs in order with our expectations. So I think it's definitely something that Reflects the underlying improvements. So what you're telling me is that Q1 was if Q2 was not locked, then Q1 was not bad locked either. So Q1 was just very bad management and now all you initiatives that started working in 1 Q2. That sounds No, but I'm just saying that No, but I can see you, I can follow you that way. We have to obviously Be careful over interpreting on single quarters. I think that's a general statement. Okay. That was what you exactly what you did, and that was what I asked about. Is it fair to say that there was a portion of unlock in the Q1 and there also a portion of lock in the Q2? That's fair enough. Okay. Thank you. Just on the approval process, I assume you still are in Phase 1 process. Is that correct? Yes. That is correct. When do you expect to have delivered the final papers for their authority to finalize the or for them to have their 25 days to Make their Phase I decision. I think we're not quite ready to commit to a specific date there, Pierre. But So as we stated here also, it will be in Q4. But does this imply that if it goes to Phase 2, Then everything then the CICE might be postponed to 2022? We there's a lot this is not We are not that's not the right history, if that's what you're asking about. But if you are not ready to do if you haven't finalized Phase 1 yet, then they have 25 days working days. If they push it into Phase 2, Then it sounds like it would be hard to get the approval before at the earliest very late in Q4, If we go into Phase 2, of course, we don't know whether they will need a Phase 2, but take into account they needed a Phase 2 for TRIC. The public can't be ruled out. They also need a Phase 2 for this deal. I agree on that, Kjell. Okay. So there is a yes, okay, perfect. Then to Codan's numbers, you state that you had limited insight. Last time we talked about Coden Denmark, the story was that there were very large claims in or there were Lot of last claims in 2020 that seem to have been a key driver of the impressive improvement they seem to have delivered. What's your perception? Is the last claims level in the first half now at a normal level? Or are we still above? Or have we ended up below a normalized level? Do we have any insight to that. I would say it's a bit hard to comment on exactly also given that we don't we're not able to provide The absolute levels at this time at this point in time. But I would say, my expectation I I would say it was slightly elevated to what I would consider a normal level, but not far from it. But still with respect to what? The business they run at present. Still above a bit above what you would perceive to be a Normal level in the first half. Slightly, yes. Okay. Last Tan, we also talked about Coden. To solve the last time since they need to do some pruning. Therefore, it's a bit surprising to see that they actually grow their premiums quite nicely. What happened to the tuning story of Coden? Has that been canceled or Again, I'm a bit limited by what numbers I can give you at Point, Pierre. But I would say, again, this is earned premiums. And obviously, if we to get a clearer picture of where we are at this point in time, we'll probably go to look at written premiums. And To put it softly, I would say that will probably closer reflect the story of still some pruning being made. We should still expect some pruning to happen on the portfolio? Yes. Okay. Very final. The model pools have now come true in non Life. There's nothing pending in Life. Is that correct? Yes. Perfect. Thank you, And we haven't received further questions at this point. I will hand back to the speakers. Thank you very much, Johannes, and thank you for the very good questions. I'll talk to you later. Thank you for