Hi to everybody, welcome to today's event, where we have the pleasure to present GreenMobility. To help us through today's presentation, Group CFO Anders Wall. Presentation today, fresh off the press, your yearly reports, maybe with a special focus, of course, looking back but also looking ahead, you know, for your guidance. I think that has a little bit of attention because it's coming in in the midst of this large strategy transition you're in. That was finally put some numbers on what could that be achieved this year, so I'm sure you will get in on that. As always, ask questions in the box down below. Do it through the presentation, do it in Danish, English, Swedish, German. I will translate to the best of my ability, but we will do the presentation in English.
For now, I will hand the call over to you, Anders.
Thank you very much, Michael, and welcome everyone. As Michael introduced, yes, our annual report, which we released earlier today, and I will go through some slides and cover at least the main parts of our business. Of course, as Michael also said, if you have any questions, feel free to post them. From our business this year, as the ones of you who are familiar with us, this is a familiar map we have. It has changed a little bit in the sense of the number of dots and the number of cities that we are in.
To some extent, when we are talking about 2022, it's a misrepresentation because we still had a few more dots, but I'll also come back to some of the markets. What we announced early 2023 is that we refocused our strategy and as part of that, consolidation of our business into our strongest markets, and with that, also the closure of our Swedish and German markets. That's why they are no longer present at our map, because that is also a representation of where we are as of today. Some of the key figures, I'll come back to that, and maybe we can jump into the next slide here, where some of the key highlights of the year, I've posted here.
I'll come back to most of them in more detail. Of course, as the headline from our report today as well, a continued strong growth in our revenue of 56%, which I think in given everything that we've seen in the past year and in the world, it's something that we can be quite satisfied with. We would originally have expected a higher revenue, of course, the world turned out a bit different during 2022. It was also a year where we expanded into some new markets. Among those, Netherlands, where we acquired Fetch Mobility in the start of 2022. We went into Germany, as just mentioned before, we went out again.
That's tied directly to our refocus of strategy. I'll come back to that in a couple of slides. We've replaced a large part of our fleet during last year and now of course also increased it to a total of approximately 1,600 EVs now across the four countries that we operate in today. We've moved into a more premium segment, also something I'll touch a little bit upon in a minute. Of course, seen these external factors. All in all, I think with a lot of challenges during the year, but also a year that we can look back at and also see the basis for our future growth in GreenMobility.
A key part, also tied to the refocus of our strategy and something we also announced in the beginning of January that given these changes, we also expect to have enough cash or liquidity, if you like. Where there was previously an expectation of raising new equity, that's not gonna be the case for 23. We can continue to operate the business that we're in. Maybe, touching a little bit on these market conditions that became increasingly more critical last year. I think we went into the start of the year with a lot of excitement coming out of COVID. Everything started to look more and more bright. The last of our markets where we had lockdowns, they opened up again.
Naturally was with some disbelief that first we saw the delays in new cars. It was obvious that also coming out of COVID, that the automotive industry was still significantly impacted. With the war in Ukraine, that actually got worse because I think what most people are not aware of that a lot of automotive parts comes or are manufactured in Ukraine. All the wiring and most of the harnesses that you use in cars are actually made in Ukraine. That gave an additional delay. Of course, the energy prices that had a pan-European effect on private consumers, but also businesses, and ultimately also impacted charging for electric cars.
Interest rates going up, of course, all this also impacting consumer behavior. Those are, I would think, the main parts that we saw that impacted the business in various degrees last year. I think it's also when we look at the new year and in 2023. What are we expecting? I think the clear message is that there are uncertainties that no one can predict. We're assuming that the level we have at the moment is the level that we will see probably throughout the year. There'll probably be some interest changes. Hopefully, we'll see energy going down again. We've already seen that on spot markets, so I expect that will drop during the year as well.
No doubt that we've gone through a year of a lot of uncertainty, and I think it will definitely continue to some extent. Going here, I think just give you sort of a view on the changes or development we've seen throughout the quarters. Where as you probably know as well, we did an adjustment of our guidance in the beginning of Q4, which is also what you see. There is still a growth in Q4, but normally we would have seen a larger effect on that. Of course, also an increased level of expenses tied very much to interest rates and of course the energy cost that directly affects our business as well.
Just to give you a view on the development throughout the year. Turning to the next slide, and I think that's something that's probably of high interest to many. As we announced 10th of January, a refocusing of our strategy, and it's very clear, the clear focus is to preserve cash. What we've chosen to do is consolidate our business into our core markets, being Denmark, Finland, Belgium, and the Netherlands. Those are the countries or markets of ours where we see the highest revenue per car, which also means ultimately the lowest cash burn, assuming that we have more or less the same cost per car in these markets.
That had the consequence of us closing Sweden, a market we've been in for a couple of years, but also where we saw that the continued development would be too slow and revenue was still not high enough per car. We also chose to close Germany. While I fully believe that Germany has a lot to offer, it was also clear as a brand-new market, it would be a market where we would invest a lot during 2023. It's also an obvious market of preserving cash. We spent since the beginning of January moving our fleet, and those two markets are now completely shut down. They have been for a while.
All the cars have been relocated for our other markets, where they are now all operational, which means we've moved cars into our higher performing markets with higher revenue and thus lower cash burn. All this, of course, has a very clear, both sort of short term for this year, but also longer term, that we expect to bring the company close to a breakeven level at the end of the year 2023. Also heading into 2024 with expectation of group profit based on the existing business that we have today. Of course, maintaining what we do in the sense of running a green business, that's the core of what we do. Meaning that we still only use electric vehicles. We kind of continue to do that.
I think that's only increasingly supported from the cities and countries that we operate as well. To reiterate as well, the actions that we've taken, and the consolidation of our market also has the consequence that we have no expectation of raising new equity during 2023 or essentially after as well. Next, I think possibly an obvious bridge as well, the green part of our business. Alongside our annual report today, we also published our ESG and sustainability report. Something that is a fundamental part of GreenMobility as well, something that we are very proud of reporting on as well. I'm not gonna go into details here. You, I of course encourage you to have a look through it, read it.
This year we've expanded also to reporting on Scope 3, which was a goal for GreenMobility last year. We've done that this for this year as well. Overall, of course, a, I would say a positive development on all our ESG parameters. The next part, before going into our markets and sort of covering those, I wanted to as well give a little overview of the fleet that we operate today. I mentioned it briefly in the highlights, but this is a key part of how we develop GreenMobility as well. For those of you who know us, hopefully all, everyone will know that we have the Renault ZOE that's been a core part of our fleet since the beginning.
It remains that. It is our bread and butter. It's a very easy car to ride. It's also very easy for us to operate. We are big fans of it. If you've watched previous presentations, you will also know that we have cargo vans. We have smaller and we also have a few larger cargo vans. It's a sub-segment where we see good usage. There are a lot of people who from time to time need to move larger items. That's a, sort of a specialty line we have and something that we continue to build up in all our markets. We've added our premium segment. We have today Polestars.
We have some Polestars here in Copenhagen, and we have lately also Méganes, you will see in the photo, currently in Amsterdam, but also a segment that we plan and expect to build upon in all our markets.
Anders, if I might ask, you know, how much can you charge the premium for that and the reason for customers choosing the premium segment? Is that for longer rides, more comfortable, larger? Is that the reason why you also need that and is that what it's getting used for?
The premiums are for, it's that, but it's also as we see it usually for larger, sorry, longer trips, not larger, longer trips, for business segment, or even we also have customers saying, "Look, I'm a big fan of car sharing, but I'm ready to pay a bit more and give me a better car." I think between those three, that's where we see the main usage. The customers who choose those cars, they are also willing to pay a bit more for that. Obviously, they are a bit more expensive cars, so the price is also slightly higher.
Mm.
I think that you have that ability, you can choose between different types of cars, depending on the need you have.
Yeah.
Now the premiums are still a small part of the fleet, but something where we see that they will grow as well over time. From, from this, going into our markets, and sort of seeing the development, market by market as we usually do as well. For Copenhagen, very clear, it's also our oldest, and most mature market, a continued strong business, and also one where we, in the beginning of the year, grew the fleet, a little bit more. Beginning of 2022, we had roughly 500 cars. Obviously, we've increased that, here in the beginning of 2023 with cars from Sweden.
A step up on average revenue per car compared to 21, despite even an even bigger fleet in Copenhagen as well. I would have expected it maybe to go a little bit up towards the last part of the year, but there we also saw the effects of consumer behavior tied to all the external factors that they were seeing at the moment. Copenhagen is our biggest market, and we see continued basis for growth here, which is also why we've deployed a large number of our Swedish cars into Copenhagen. They are active already now, and we see good development on those as well.
From Copenhagen to our other Danish market in Aarhus, where we saw a sort of a record in Aarhus at the end of 2021. It's slowed down a little bit during 2022, but still at a good level. Also here we increased the fleet a little bit in the start of 2022, and a continued good development in Aarhus. We've also extended the fleet some with cars from Sweden. It's a definitely a market where we see continued support, both from customers, but also from the city, and where we've started also to develop our zone. We cover a larger part of the city of Aarhus, but also some of the suburbs.
Building on also our learnings from Copenhagen there. Good expectations for Aarhus as well going forward. From Denmark into Belgium is truly a very strong market for us, an impressive growth in 22. Of course, they were also the market that was mostly affected by COVID. We had long periods of other lockdowns in the cities, which of course gave us some challenge. Very clear that Belgium was and is a strong car share market, today our second best market. We've just increased the cars in Belgium by some of the cars from Germany. We have a little less than 400 cars in Belgium today.
They are covering three cities, so Brussels, Antwerp and Ghent. Brussels was also a city that we moved fully into in 2022, so expanding the business there. Our expectations continue to be high for Belgium. We see a growing customer base, growing usage, generally long trips in Belgium. We expect to continue the growth during 2023 as well. We have the Netherlands. Netherlands was a new market for us, but a market that we have, we've been following closely, I think I can safely say for some years. It is in many ways a very car sharing friendly city.
It's a city where all developments are heading into the removal of private and polluting cars. You can't be sure to have parking if you have a private car in Amsterdam, the city will support, of course, sustainable cars, electric cars, but also car sharing services. We've seen a past in the city where there's been very good uptake, which is also why we chose to acquire a company there. Fetch Mobility that we acquired had been profitable pre-COVID, like many others, been impacted negatively during COVID. We saw a lot of synergies between them and GreenMobility in the sense of how we operate, the sort of the cost structure we have and all that. It was a relatively easy migration.
Since we took over the company beginning of 2022, we did a full migration of customers into our platform, which we concluded in end of May. In June, we took out the old fleet and put in a completely new fleet of cars. By end of year, we had a fleet of roughly 150 cars in Amsterdam, and we've just increased that with some of our cars from Germany as well. A strong market, but also where we have high expectations for in 2023 that we can grow the market and work our way back to the profitable levels that the business in Amsterdam was at pre-COVID.
Last but not least, of course, we have our most northern market in Finland and here, of course, you can see a lot of jumps in the average revenue. There are two main reasons for that. One is that we have on several occasions we've increased the fleet, which obviously impacts average revenue per car. In the summer of 2021, we increased the fleet from the original 25 into 61. That impacted the sort of second half of 2021. Again, we did more or less the same last year in June. June, July, we actually, we took out the 61 cars that was of an older model and then put in 150 new cars.
Roughly 2.5 times in size. Of course, that has an impact on revenue, average revenue per car. Overall revenue has grown. The details are in the annual report as well, a good overall growth in revenue in Finland. Of course, when we increase the fleet that much, it has an impact on average revenue. We do see a good development in Finland. I think it's the second comment that there's always tied to Finland is that it's also our most weather-dependent city. They do have stronger winters than we have in other markets. Usually we always see an impact during the winter months.
It's clear that the fleet we have in Finland now is something that will support us. We can also, and we have increased the operational side there, and added additional hotspots. We now cover a larger part of Helsinki and the surrounding areas as well, including the airport in Helsinki. Strong expectations for Finland as well.
As if I might stop you a little bit there. I think the question is around revenue per car. As you mentioned, you have started moving in, and I don't know whether you wanna give the details, but the first feeling on how those cars are getting absorbed, you know. You're moving into existing markets, how do they get absorbed? Do they follow your thinking that it can be absorbed in those markets? Then of course there is whether you could give some indication on which development you expect for revenue per car in 23. Where will it level out? Will it rise? Especially thinking that you will put in a lot of more cars to be absorbed in those markets.
First, your first experience since you started moving in, and then maybe your expectation to development in 2023 in the different markets.
Sure. As I mentioned, all the cars have been moved, there is also a big difference country by country on how you import cars.
Mm.
Which can seem strange, but I can safely say that Denmark is the easiest country to do it. Very quickly, we had all the cars operational here in Denmark, and we actually see a good uptake in revenue per car on those here already. That's showing a good promise. For Belgium and Netherlands, which we didn't move any cars to Finland. We've stayed with the fleet size we had put in this summer. Only Denmark, Belgium, Finland have received new cars. Belgium and Netherlands, we also see good uptake, but it has been a slower process in, especially in Netherlands of getting new registration plates on the cars.
The administration offices simply work slower there. Overall our expectations are good. Because of course we base it on what we've seen already. Also, competition in terms of fleet sizes, and market size in general. I expect that we will over the coming months, we will see that in both those countries and the new cars will take up revenue and reach the same revenue level as we've seen in the past. No doubt that Q1 will be lower when we look at these graphs because when you insert a large number of cars, that they have to be absorbed.
Going forward during 2023, I fully expect that they will take up the same revenue level and continue to grow as well. And I think that's also a key part that coming from levels of DKK 5,000, DKK 6,000, DKK 7,000 per car, it's very clear that in terms of reaching a breakeven level by end of year and also going into 2024 with a profitable business, then we need to bring this revenue up because otherwise, it's gonna be a challenge.
That was the Netherlands and the Belgian market. In Denmark, I guess you put a lot of cars in already high revenue markets, you know, so what are your expectations there? Are you fighting to keep those levels, or do you expect them to go a little bit down, or are you willing to go as far as and say it can be absorbed and maybe even we can raise the level of in the two Danish markets?
In Denmark, I fully expect them to be absorbed as well. No doubt.
Okay.
I expect that we can continue our growth, per car as well. As mentioned, I would expect that Q1, of course, will be.
Yeah. Q1.
It tells us that there's an impact, of course. Going from there, we should get back to the same level as we are at the moment, and from there growing the average revenue as well. No doubt.
Okay. Perfect.
Yeah, just as sort of wrapping up on our, on our markets before we look ahead, we recently conducted a customer survey. You'll also find some information on it in our annual report. Of course it's always something makes us proud that we have very high level of customer satisfaction, because that ties directly into how we grow the business as well. It is based on satisfied customers who are willing to recommend us as well. For us, that's key.
I just learned yesterday as well that we are now ranking number 1 on mobility apps in Denmark, which is a great accomplishment from our tech and marketing team as well that we've boosted that and we've got that acknowledgement. I think one of the last comment on our customer usage here is that we see an increase in the willingness to do something more to have a sustainable ride. 70% of our customers are willing to walk a bit further to get an electric car over a traditional car.
I think that shows something about where we are as a market and what people, or the focus that and the consciousness that our customers have about the choice they make for mobility. Obviously, looking ahead, something that is always super critical, super interesting, super critical, and also something on our guidance we announced earlier today, and I think we can sort of break it down in two, which we also did in the beginning of January, that we have a very clear short-term target, of course, driven by our guidance for 2023, but also the fact saying we don't expect to raise new equity.
We expect to come close to a breakeven level by end of year and go into 2024 as a profitable year for GreenMobility based on the business that we have today. That's a very clear and updated focus on our strategy. We wanna bring the company into a profitable level and then continue to grow the business from there. On a longer term, obviously our ambitions are unchanged. We still are very determined on being a leader in sustainable and shared mobility in Europe. It will take longer, no doubt about that. Of course, very much tied to the challenges that we've seen externally and things that are essentially out of our control.
We will continue to work towards our long-term goal, but I think on short term, the key focus is that we wanna bring this from a loss-making into a profitable company, and we have that as a basis of building growth and expanding to new markets and new cities. For next year, based on the markets that we have now, and then of course that's clear it's those four countries we're in, that we will, we expect to grow our revenue by 40%-50%. A target of DKK 135 million-DKK 145 million. At the same time reduce our net result.
Expectation of a net loss of somewhere between DKK 35 million and DKK 45 million by 2023. Of course, as I mentioned, long-term aspirations, they are unchanged. There's a very clear market, and we also see that from the cities and the countries we're in, even other markets as well, that the political focus is, I would say, on change or even, increase that. That we need to have a change, and we are definitely a key part in making that change. Maybe just as a last part in the area of going forward, as some of you probably know, we changed a little bit in our executive management in November.
Thomas, who's been our CEO for quite a while, he left the company. I've had the pleasure of also being interim CEO for a period of time. As of the beginning of March, Kasper Gjedsted. I can see that his name hasn't been changed. That's very embarrassing. I'll jump by here.
From my side maybe.
That is not going to look good at the next meeting,
no.
No, no.
I have to give a big apology to Kasper.
You have a management change. Before we go to the questions, you know.
I think that's very key. Yes.
If I look at your new CEO's CV, it's clear that it's a high experience with managing large car parks. You know, as a rental, I know it's a different business model, but have you put anything into your 2023 where you are looking more as how can we use our car fleet? How do we get a better resale value? Where can we lease it cheap? I guess that's also something that the new CEO will bring to the table. Have you put anything into the expectations of being able to better lifecycle manage or operate your fleet in that connection?
Well, the obvious question would be yes. Or the answer, of course, yes. Kasper is, as you mentioned, a very experienced guy. He's worked as CEO in several companies, both in the rental industry, previously in Sixt and Avis Budget, and has a lot of experience and knowledge on fleet handling, buying, selling, financing, of course. I think that's one part, but and then lately as well, four years experience on building platforms. Those two they tie very well together in the business that we operate. We are, of course, based on a platform where you operate a fleet.
I think we will also see some new input and new ways of thinking in terms of how can we continue to build revenue in the fleet. I think that's equally important, I think we have many more areas where we can develop the business, on revenue-wise. Obviously, you can always find improvement in operation as well. That goes for any company. Thinking in different ways in terms of revenue will be a key part as well.
Then, let's go to the questions. You saw a larger growth in customers than in trips. What is behind that development? Is a lot of customer coming in in the end, or is it the customers that actually, as you said, as you mentioned in the start, has changed a little bit your pattern? Customer growth, trips growth can't really follow customer growth because customers are, you know, taking less trips. A little bit about the comment and maybe what can you do about it? Can you more push now you have the customers in, can you start targeting those better and try and get the trips up again?
Well, I think there are several elements. Of course, we continue to grow our customer base. That's obvious. We need customers to build the business. One part, of course, is also that we've, as we acquired a company in the Netherlands, we also acquired a customer base there.
Mm.
There's some of it is also tied to Fetch Mobility.
Okay.
I think the way of looking at it is also that we continue to bring in new customers, but of course, there was a slowdown in terms of trip and usage towards the end of the year. That's another part of it. They don't necessarily always follow each other. That would be the logic, of course, but of course, all new customers need to go out and ride not only once, but several times. That's always a clear ambition.
The next question, you still target to be profitable in 2023, 2024, and I think you commented that on the strategy slide that that's still your target. How are falling energy prices affecting you in 2023? Are you running on long contracts or do you need to wait to the spot prices feed in? More how has you put that in your guidance, you might say, on the cost side? Do you expect the energy prices to go down a little bit? Secondly, do you actually need to match that by also removing the energy surplus you are charging by customers?
First of all, the energy cost, of course, it differs from country to country. Denmark is the only one where we still see a high charging cost. It's a little bit ironic because when you see the spot market, it's way lower. We've also had customers contacting us and asking why. Reality is that charging costs are still high. If you go to any public charging poles, you will see that as well. We are, of course, pushing our suppliers. We work with most of the charging operators in Denmark. We are constantly pushing them because we can see the same figures as everyone else. They do expect it to drop. I would expect sometime during Q2.
I don't know what it will drop to, but it has to come obviously closer to the spot market. I think everyone can agree with that. That's definitely something we're pushing for. Once we see that it changes, we will of course also remove our energy surplus. We've actually just removed it in all other markets than Denmark because in Belgium, Netherlands, and Finland, we've seen a decrease in charging costs now, so we've removed the fee actually this week. It's a very natural step. Trust me, we wanna get rid of that fee. It's not very easy to use and I would much prefer not to have it.
When you have a 100% increase in net costs, then obviously we have to do something. It's something we follow very closely. Of course, we've also looked at it from, I think in terms of guidance, we looked at it, of course, conservatively. I can hope and expect that this will drop. I think the challenge is we don't know what it will drop to. Personally, I'm sure-
What have you put in your guidance? I think you mentioned on one of the first slides that you took the current condition and put them into.
True
To guidance.
I think what we know today is what we have to assume for the rest of the year.
Yeah.
Um, at some-
There's a potential upside if they will start going down.
Yeah. There's also the discussion, will interest rate continue to go up? You have pluses and minuses.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think when we do expectations, we have to be on the conservative side, of course. I think, if everything is as we know today, I think we can safely expect that charging costs will go down because electricity cost has gone down already. It's more a matter of time.
Then actually looking at the other side, the consumer confidence side are your customers, you know. You were a little bit dark. Yeah, now dark is the wrong word, but you went more pessimistic in the end of the last year. I think if you look now, right now, it hasn't panned out that dark, I might say. I also think I start to see some, you know, consumer confidence rising in the countries you are in. Your feeling of that and maybe a little bit what you have seen in the start of 2023 on the trip side, you know. If you can elaborate a little bit about that without giving your Q1 away. That's one, whether you...
maybe what have you put in your guidance? Is it still, are you still a little bit worried about the consumer side of the business or the second part of your business, the customer?
I think, if last year told us anything, it is to be a little bit nervous.
Yeah.
In this sense, I would say more nervous of the unknowns. I mean, of course, still the trigger effect is what happens to the East. Will they find a peace or will it get worse? That has an effect on macro figures that we can't control. Aside of that, I'm cautiously optimistic to play it safe. You're right from maybe a in the last part of 2022, being more gloom about it, more dark about it, then yes, I think we've seen some more positive development. It's slowly coming back. I see people going out to dinner here in Copenhagen, in Belgium, in Netherlands.
I visited our markets a few weeks ago and people are traveling at the airport, people going out to dinner. All these things are positive triggers as well for consumer behavior. Obviously they need to move either to the airport or in a restaurant. That has an effect on our business as well. Overall, I think we can be cautiously optimistic.
A little bit less gloomy. Let's, let's put it that way.
Yeah.
Okay, perfect. Can you comment on the life cycle of your Renault ZOE, you know? Are they living up to the expectation? Maybe in my head, I also said that, you know, we've seen some of the EVs fall in price because of Tesla, you know, and you have a large fleet. Are you away from that segment, so you are not attached to that? I know by your new cars, but by your older cars, could that also push down the prices? Talk a little bit about the life cycles of your Renault ZOE, whether they're living up to the expectation. I don't know whether the question here wants to know 3 years and those things.
In my head also, one of the questions I had was, is there something happening to your fleet's value by the lowering of price of Teslas? Are you too far away with the Renault ZOE to not be attached to that?
So I think there are multiple answers here, but let me see if I can catch all of them. For one, when we look at the life cycle of the ZOE, it lives up to our expectations. I would even go as far as saying it has exceeded our expectations. Over the years, I think we've sold upwards of 1,000 cars. So we've also been able to sort of prove and get some certainty around the book value we have and the models which appreciated according to that they are actually true to market as well, at which they have been. Of course, it's also important to say when we resell a ZOE, it's not end of life. It still has life. We don't.
Usually a car that's four years old, maybe it has done 80,000 km or even less. There's still a lot of kilometers left. We still see a battery of a very good percentage. We have customers for these cars, and we could definitely resell them. Of course, they are warned that they are used, but all we are, we're actually quite happy with the fleet. We will change some cars in the fleet as well. We don't expect to increase the fleet, but we have some that have reached their maturity, meaning that they are four years or older. We swap them. All we are, I would say, very happy with the ZOE. It's very, it's a nice and simple car.
It works and we have buyers for them as well. In terms of the Tesla action, I think there are various reasons why they did what they did. We don't see any negative impact on our fleet. To answer your question directly, we don't see a risk in that on our balance sheet.
Fine.
We test our book value on a regular basis versus the market. We actually test also against a lower price in the sense that when we resell cars, we don't sell them one by one to private individuals. We sell them as fleets, usually they go out of the country. We work with different price levels. I think as well, one of the things, I mean, we've also seen an increase, even though Tesla has lowered that most other EVs have also increased in prices in the last year and a half due to supply chain issues and so on.
Mm.
That also helps the resale value of the cars.
There's the last question. I think that Copenhagen has a high revenue per car. What are numbers behind this? You know, number of trips per day, duration, how long the trips are. Can you try and compare that to the other cities? I guess the learnings there is what you would like to move to the other cities. I know there's time, there's life, time, differences also. Why are Copenhagen higher revenue per car? Is it simply, you know, I think the hard way to ask it is that the size of the city that is perfect, you know, and it's harder to get to other places or, you know, digging a little in between the numbers why this is a higher revenue compared to other cities maybe.
Maybe help us to understand whether you can, you know, repeat that in other cities.
One key factor, of course, is time. That Copenhagen, we've been active in Copenhagen since 2016 and some of our other markets are more recent for us. There's an element of matureness, maturing of the market. That's one thing. Size of the city is a factor as well. I think we can to a large extent sort of compare Copenhagen to Brussels, Antwerp, and Amsterdam. They're not identical, I know, but.
Mm.
They are all larger cities. Which also means that we can compare a lot of figures for those cities. Of course, factoring in the size of the fleet, how long have we been active and so on, and how long has car sharing been active. That's also why we have very high expectations for both Belgium and for Amsterdam or the Netherlands as well, because we see those market trends. We see some comparable figures overall in terms of when we look at number of trips, duration, usability, usage, and so on. There are also differences. What we see, for example, is that in Belgium, they have much longer average trips than we do in Denmark.
When looking at it from a sort of, a high perspective, okay, Copenhagen similar to Antwerp, hopefully I'm not offending anyone.
No.
There is a, there is a different, what we see also different work-life patterns in Belgium, so people will go longer to work or from, or how they work. Whereas maybe Copenhagen, again, very generally, but you see a lot of people coming into Copenhagen every day. We see different patterns. Of course that's a key part of our business as well, that we have these KPIs that we constantly measure. We push, of course, I mean, when we look at trips per day, we have to always increase that. That's very simple. We also have to factor in what are the differences of the city. That's why revenue per car ends up being the best comparison-
Mm.
We could have less trips in Antwerp, but still a higher revenue. At the end of the day, the revenue is the key part. That's why we make the company profitable at the end.
I think that the hard question would be so it's not competitive sites, you know, because then you are not able, you know, to reach the same mileage. It's the competitive side, you don't think has any explanation in the differences, if you understand that you have harder competition in the other cities?
No.
than you have in Copenhagen.
I would even maybe to some extent argue the opposite that at least until you have an oversaturated city, which we don't see anywhere in our markets, then having more car sharing and the notion of car sharing generally actually builds the market. At the moment, for us, it's more a matter of building the market, getting the knowledge out, promoting towards more customers, building more revenue into the cars. We see that growing month by month.
Perfect. I think that was the last question. Thank you to you, Anders. Thank you to the audience for the questions. May everybody have a nice day.
Thank you, everyone. Thank you, Michael.