Hi everybody, and welcome to today's presentation, where we have the pleasure to present GreenMobility. To help us through today's presentation, we are joined by Anders Wall, CFO. The reason for the event, your Q3 trading statement fresh off the press. Still good growth compared to what others can manage, but also some warnings about consumer, maybe some fog out there, and also a little bit reminder that you of course therefore are looking at your growth plans and your aspirations. That's probably something that we will discuss on this event. As always, do not hesitate to ask questions down in the corner down below. Do it in Danish, English, Swedish, as many languages as I can translate just that. Today's event will be in English, but do not...
Feel free to ask in different languages down in the question box. I will try and translate to the best of my ability. Anders, I think I will hand the call over to you, and you can take it from here.
Thank you, Michael, and welcome everyone. I'm actually curious to see how many languages you can translate from. Yes, welcome everyone for our Q3 presentation. I think that Michael framed it quite nicely that yes, we've definitely seen a continued strong growth in the business. Also looking ahead, there is some fog or at least some uncertainties in the general market at the moment, which potentially may impact GreenMobility as well. I'll come a little bit back to that, but let's start with some of the figures and how Q3 has developed.
The usual status of our business, the number of dots on the map are unchanged, no new cities for the past quarter. Of course, increase in the commercial business in terms of growth in customer base. We're now more than 212,000 customers across these markets and of course also similar on trips and CO2 saved. From here, looking at the actual figures on revenue, realizing DKK 26 million in revenue Q3, which I think given what we see in the markets and also with some of our new markets, a very strong growth, almost in line with what we had during Q2. 56% up compared to last year.
The majority of that is still from our existing markets, so Denmark, Sweden, Belgium and Finland. And then of course, we have some added with our new markets in Germany and in the Netherlands. I'll also put up some comparison here, year to date, compared to last year. You can also see reference to Q2 this year, where we have a growth of 13%. Overall, a good development in trips and especially in revenue across our markets. Looking at the net profit, it has increased or gotten a bit lower when we compare to both last year and Q2, which is related to some start-up cost in the new markets.
We've still had inflation of course in Germany during the beginning of this quarter. We've also had specifically and as a one-time cost in Q3 a currency cost of DKK 1.6 million related to our activities in Sweden. The Swedish krona has gone down and that has an impact on the financials within the group. It's not as of now cash related, but still an effect on our P&L. On the other parts, as mentioned before, growth in customers, growth in trips and in general. Looking at our fleet of course bigger than last year. We covered that already during Q2 or H1.
Otherwise similar terms of cities, fleet size and so on, when looking at earlier this year. That continues steadily. All in all, more revenue generated from the same fleet. From this, I think as we also mentioned in the report today, so, a little outlook on the market conditions or at least where we see them today. It is in my mind an extraordinary situation we're seeing at the consumer market. It's difficult to find previous times where we've seen exactly the same or at least we have to go quite far back in time. Most people are experiencing cost increases in their household economy in terms of going to the supermarket, having electricity, heating and all that.
Of course, we are also as a company exposed to this. Specifically I think for us some of the obvious things are electricity cost, but also interest rates. They are developing also on our business. Which is also why we chose to initiate a counter to that saying, "Okay, specifically electricity has gone up." This is something I think most customers can relate to, and it also has an impact when you're driving our cars.
We've introduced a hopefully temporary energy fee in our business of 1 DKK per driven kilometers or EUR 0.15 per kilometer to balance the additional cost we have in that. Hopefully and expectedly, this is something we can remove again once and if electricity prices come down again. For now, we believe this is sufficient. Again, this market situation may change. We are seeing effects from a lot of external factors that may ultimately change consumer behavior and their decisions. As a company, we're ready to act on that. We can adjust the business in quite a short while.
I think that's one of the benefits of our business, that things can be changed almost overnight in terms of at least on pricing and other stuff.
Anders, maybe the one of the questions out there fits here, you know, the writing in the papers that affects maybe the consumer more than the pocket has really taken off after September, you know, maybe also in September. There's a question here. Are you seeing anything in your data after your books closed in September? And is that the reason why you are writing like you do in the reporting, or is it a general concern that you have?
Well, I would agree that there's a lot of negative writing. Personally, I have a feeling that if we started to write just one positive for each negative, then we may see a different development. However, that's not up to me to control. I wouldn't say there's been anything specifically on the short term. It's more a totality of what we see across media, across suppliers, across markets saying, looking ahead, there is some uncertainty, there's an unknown of where will this take us. Will we stay sort of at the level we are at now? Here I'm talking about society in general. Will it go worse? Will it go better? Probably not better on the short time.
That's likely wishful thinking. We have to be sort of preemptively saying, "Okay, there is potential that things will change for the worse." Of course, what is written in the media, we read the media as well. I don't think it's necessarily gotten specifically worse in the last week or two. It is the totality of what we see.
Perfect. Thank you, Anders.
Yeah, I think we covered that, or else if you're welcome to ask some questions on that. Moving before going into our cities, just as always, also one of the fixed slides that we continue of course to save CO2. It's tied very much to trips and not least to kilometers. For us as business, this is always an equally important KPI. From here, moving into our, sorry, our markets, we have Copenhagen first. As you can see, a level similar to Q3, so DKK 9,500 per car per month on average.
If some of you remember, we set the targets of reaching DKK 10,000 per car, which I would say is definitely, and I think the graph shows it well, definitely within reach. During Q3, of course, we've seen this year an increased travel pattern when we compare to the past two years where we've had much less summer travels. There's been a dip in this beginning or maybe even the first half of Q3, so July and some part of August where people simply are away from the city. Which also indicates that towards the end of the quarter, the revenue per car is higher. All in all, that's actually quite satisfactory.
Moving from Copenhagen to Aarhus, a similar image as Copenhagen. I think it's also quite understandable looking at we are within the same country, so a lot of habits are the same. Again here, also of course, effects from summer, so a steady level there. From Denmark to some of our international markets in Sweden first. Here you can see there's been sort of a little decline in revenue per car, but also remember that we have been phasing in more cars. We went from 162 cars to 200 cars, and that usually always have an effect.
A different way of viewing is when I look at the sort of total revenue in Sweden, we are above Q2. In total, we have a higher revenue, but we need to have the last 40 cars, which is still a 20% of the fleet, sort of to really have them phased in. From my perspective, Sweden is in a good momentum. Belgium, well, I think the graph speaks for itself.
It's for me still really reassuring to see quarter by quarter the market that was most hit by COVID with real lockdowns that this is really supporting what we've expected all along from the Belgian market that we're able to grow month by month, quarter by quarter. The market just celebrated its second birthday a few weeks ago. Looking at the graph, of course, we're on a good trajectory towards breakeven in that market. We still have some time before we reach three years, but I think it's definitely moving in the right direction.
From Belgium to some of our other markets, Finland is well, it's a strange graph to look at. Finland has been impacted over time by both weather, it's definitely the most seasonal market we're in. When we go into winter season, they can have at least a lot of snow, a lot of frost, which can have an impact on our fleet. In the last few quarters, a little similar as Sweden, again, that we've gone from roughly 60 cars to 150 cars, so between these two quarters. In total, I'm actually quite happy about that we were able to realize DKK 5,000 per car having only 60 cars.
Now, we've 150 cars, we can do 4,300. This phasing in has gone quicker than I could expect. We definitely see similar as in Sweden, that the total revenue is significantly higher in Q3 than in Q2. Of course, per car, it has a short-term effect where it falls a little bit back. Netherlands is. I see there's something wrong with the numbers here. There's something formatting. It should be respectively 5,000 something and 6,000. If I remember correct, it's 6,200 in Q3. Also very clear evidence that the acquisition we made in the Netherlands has proven very strongly.
We are now at roughly 112 cars in the Netherlands, and we'll increase that to 150 during Q4. We still have a few cars that we are waiting delivery on in that market. They're in production now and confirmed to be delivered before end of year. That will, of course, also increase total revenue. In the meantime, we are at a quite strong level in Netherlands already. Germany, on the other hand, has a very small revenue. It's still a very new market. The final cars were not fully inflated before roughly mid Q3. We still had some cars that were delayed due to queuing in the number plate office in Germany.
It seems both ironic and crazy to say that, but that has been a delay in launching there as well. We do have some much higher expectations for Germany, and I expect we'll see that in the coming months as well. It's still at a very low initial level. A big market, and we've also been well-received in Germany. That said, also here, comparing Q2, Q3. In Q2, we only had 100 cars. By end of Q3, we were up at the 300 cars.
Actually tripling in fleet size, but still maintaining the same average revenue is, let's say at least, it's acceptable for now, and now it's really about moving the level beyond that. Then maybe as final part, and then we can jump into some questions, which we also confirmed today that our guidance is maintained for the year. A revenue of DKK 100 million-DKK 110 million, and expect the loss of DKK 60 million-DKK 70 million. Also maintained on our liquidity. I think that's also important for many that we still see that we have funds well into 2023.
Of course, given everything that goes on, I think that's also a part of what we announced today that given the market condition, of course, we, as probably many companies, have to evaluate the long-term strategy. Can we move as fast as we initially planned for, or do we have to adapt along the way? Of course, at the moment, we are considering how and if we should make some adjustments to the strategy. I think it's important to say our goals, our aspirations of 35 cities and 10,000 cars is unchanged. We still see ourselves as a market leader in electric shared mobility.
It could end up having an extended timeline in terms of reaching that. It ties directly into what we see at the market at the moment, both in terms of financial markets, but also, operational cost sides and the similar. I think that's the sort of words from me. I'm happy to jump into some questions here, and then we can jump back into the slides if there are anything specifically we need to look at.
Perfect. Let's jump into some of the questions. There's two questions surrounding a little bit this you're taking up the possibility to be a little bit more prudent, invest a little bit less. There's a direct question here. Do we have the possibility to totally change track right now and be cash positive or neutral for a period if you wish to? Does your business model at the current setup would that allow you to do that?
Well, I think first of all, you should always be able to adapt to the business, and of course we can as well. Whether to make that change entirely, I think it's too soon to say, but of course, we are evaluating the possibilities at the moment, short-term and long-term. If you extend, or if we end up extending in terms of growth pace, then it will lead to the other. Sort of giving right now a definitive answer to that, I think that's too soon for me to say.
There's also a question here. Have you considered maybe powering down some of the cities where you're maybe not are seeing the development and try and create some profits, you know? Really move up the profit ladder instead of expanding into it. You know, there's here the saying that profit always will maybe give a better shareholder value in these current market. I'm also considering, are you considering maybe some cities where you are not experiencing it compared to other cities and move cars, and thereby actually doesn't need maybe to invest so much but still expanding there? It is more. There's a question here, you know. Are you considering really going down and showing profits?
Is that still too far to go or is it too early, your discussion with your board?
Well, I think it's important to say this is not a matter of not being able to. It's more a matter of choosing and evaluating what is the right course of action for us on short-term and long-term. I'm not saying that we can't or won't do it. It's more a matter of evaluating all the options available. In terms of adjusting cities, yes, that's definitely also an option. I think that's one of the relatively flexible options we have because as we're using cars, they are mobile and they can be moved. We have to change the license plates and so on but unlike a lot of other companies, we don't have fixed assets. They are.
In accounting, yes, but in terms of flexibility in the business, we can move the fleet around. Of course, that's also something that we look into. Where should we adjust in terms of fleet size relative to where there's a higher revenue? Of course, in that sense it's a matter of do you wanna give up a market or reduce a market in order to gain in other markets? That's of course also a part of the assessments, and where we can grow the most in the next one to two years.
Perfect. There's a question here. You know, consumers on electric cars right now can't get a fixed price, you know, pay a fixed amount per month per car. Can you elaborate a little bit about your agreements on the electricity, what you have and what this means per earnings per car? Maybe also take in this one or EUR 0.15 or DKK 1 extra energy fee per kilometer running.
I think, while we do have the contracts on some elements, it's important to say that electricity varies a lot from country to country. Denmark is probably the country that's seen the biggest increases so far. Most other countries are a bit more conservative on that, or they haven't been hit to the same extent. Not to say it won't happen, but there we see differences across markets, which also plays into where it is from a cost base best to operate the business.
That said, we have contracts with our suppliers, but as you've also seen probably in the media or even from your own household, that ultimately a supplier will break those contracts as well if the price goes up too much. We have also seen changes in our electricity cost and also beyond what we had expected. Which is also why we chose to act as we did, saying due to the increase in prices, specifically on electricity that we see, we've chosen to implement this fee. Of course, I realize for our customers this is not great. No one thinks it's great. I don't think it's great either, but it's a necessity.
What we've actually heard from our customers is that while no one likes a price increase, everyone understands it because it's something you can relate to. Everywhere else you see prices increase, so as an almost law of nature, then electric car it has to increase as well.
Mm.
That's why we chose to have this fee, which more or less balances out the cost that we have in addition at the moment.
There's a question here. There's been some writings. He writes a lot. I think he reads the good financial press, so we are glad to have such investors on board here. About Share Now and getting a new owner and your competitor in Copenhagen getting a new owner that might think that it's more prudent to do a little bit what you are saying, to look a little bit more on getting back in black in instead of expanding. Can you elaborate a little bit on what you think that could mean for you as a company. I know you don't like to comment too much on competitors, but elaborate a little bit on what you think that could mean for you as a company.
Absolutely. I think the problem with competitors. The risk is always that it becomes a guessing game on my part.
Mm.
Ultimately, I think, we've seen a period of time where we had some car shares that have been owned and operated by some very large corporations where it seemed that money was almost endless. That leaves an irrational competitor for us, which is not ideal to compete with. Generally we actually like competition. It grows the market faster. It's actually honest when I say we welcome competition. We see markets where there are more players. It actually grows faster. It's always more interesting to be up against a competitor who acts more rational because ultimately they also wanna make a profit.
With the Stellantis purchasing Share Now on a European basis, they've also made it very clear that they wanna turn this into a profitable business. It's probably gonna take them a few years to get there, but that's fair enough. It will be for them also about cutting cost and I think potentially also raising the price that those are as always the two elements you can use to leverage on. For Denmark, Share Now here is I think still a little bit up in the air. Share Now in Denmark is a franchise that's operated by Arriva Denmark, and Arriva Denmark was recently sold to Mutares.
Mutares has made an announcement that they are considering or looking at selling Share Now off because that's not part of their core business and what Mutares normally do, but also because it's a huge loss-making company and they think, if I interpret it, they don't believe they can do it any better than that. That leaves something open in the market. Will we gain from it? Of course, that's speculation. It's difficult to say. But I think we've actually already seen yesterday Share Now announce that they will add a fee now, a more location-based fee, and they've reduced their zone in Copenhagen. They've cut out several areas, which was a little surprising.
They've also announced that they have a small fleet, and they have a difficulty getting new cars. So I think that plays into it as well. And potentially that can give us an advantage, but yeah, we'll have to see.
Perfect. Revenue per car in Aarhus seems to be flat. When do you expect to hit break even there?
Yeah. Well, I think the best thing I can say is that's something the team works very hard on every day. And as I said, the flat so the same level for the last two quarters is to some extent a result also of holiday season during July and then part of August. I think it's also safe to say that then looking at the end of the quarter, we are at a higher level than the beginning of the quarter. Let's say that the revenue is pointing in the right direction.
There's a question here about, you know, car rental. You know, do you think going into maybe more stable business model in a more uncertain time, you know, using your cars may be different. There's a question here, you know, co-living association, maybe having one or two cars paying you a fixed amount and you running the system. Is that something you are considering or already doing or maybe considering in a more uncertain time on running different cars in different cities and maybe also to companies this way, maybe to build up a little bit more of a stable base here in the coming year where the economic uncertainty is very high?
Well, I think for one, it's something we actually already do. Not in a big scale, but we do it in with some smaller cities in south of Germany. This small company Twist we bought last year, it's not a big part of the business. But we also have in Denmark a few customers doing. We have an agreement with a company called A Place To in Esbjerg, where they have both apartments, but you can also rent a room. And they have, we've provided them with some of our shared cars as well on a fixed monthly rate. We also do, which I think is similar with some companies. And so we are very happy to do that.
I think what we've experienced so far is that there's still a decision process for some of these. It's very obvious and our platform is already ready for that, we have a closed network of five, 10 or 100. It doesn't matter. Only these people are allowed to use this one car or these ten cars, whatever it is. We can work very well with having a fixed price on the car. I think it depends a little on where we are, what are the expectations and so on, but we're actually quite flexible in that, and it's also something we're pursuing. For now, it's still a small part of the business.
An aside question, you know, to that one, what about the public, you know, the Danish jem & fix or and so on. A lot of them are running electric cars. A lot of them, we are having problems getting cars delivered. If you have some kind of a schedule but don't wanna go aggressively into new cities, or maybe being even more efficient to run this than the capacity which could be possible, is it something you're looking at, you know, to kind of balance out, you know, the risk of economic
Well, it's definitely something we're open for as well. We have been in dialogue with some smaller municipalities on that. Once it gets to a certain size, then it has to go into a public tender, which, to be honest, gets a little bit complicated for us in terms of what we are set up to do. But also remember that Copenhagen and Aarhus for that matter as well, we are at a quite stable revenue. So it's definitely something we aim for. We're not spending that many resources on it currently, to be honest, but it's we have had talks with the various municipalities and we have it ongoing when there's a need for it.
I think we're not. There's still some practical issues in terms of their expectations and what our core business is. So it's, let's say, a development, but it's definitely something that we are open to do. I think having the possibility of using our fleet and our platform, our services across different use cases is a key part of where we can bring the company in the future as well.
Yeah, I was thinking, I know there's not much happening at night, but is there any actually somewhere where your cars could be used at night? Yeah, interesting. Let's dig into that. There's a question here about your vans. How is that part of your business going? Is it looking good? Could there be a business model where you could also incorporate maybe smaller business owners into the van service somehow?
Well, we already have vans. In the fleet total, we have around 45 vans currently. 25 of them are in Copenhagen. Then we have some in Aarhus, some in Sweden, and some in Belgium. They're going quite well, to put it in a very blunt way. We're looking at increasing the fleet of vans. The Renault Megane, sorry, the Renault Kangoo that we are currently using is now available in a newer and better version. I expect that we will both change the current fleet and increase it as well in next year, where we are actually able to get vans delivered.
We also look for a slightly larger cargo van, so almost sort of normal van size, if you like, because we do see a demand for these. It's never gonna be hundreds of cars, I think, in one city, but a part of the fleet makes very good sense. It is used by lots of different people. Most of it is private consumers using it to move something. Typically, we see that these trips are longer because you are in a different mindset, and you have to move this, let's say, sofa. If it takes 10 more minutes, then it takes 10 more minutes because the alternative is you call 3F or some other company where it's gonna be much more expensive.
The time issue is different, making it relatively a more profitable business, but of course, still a small part of it. For businesses, yes, we actually during COVID saw some of the restaurants using our vans for delivery when they had to more or less overnight shift from restaurant to some kind of delivery service. We are very happy with working with small business owners as well. I think a little depending on what is needed, some we would definitely be able to deliver the right partner. Others, I think, maybe they're better off leasing a traditional car or van from somewhere.
Depends a little on the use case and how much they want to use it for, but for us, it can definitely work as well.
A little bit about the competition. You talked a little bit about the licensing Share Now and the situation in Denmark. Overall, are your competition aggressive right now or shutting down? Thereby, are you taking a market share or maybe growing more than the competition right now?
Well, a few weeks ago, I would say the competition, at least in Denmark, was very aggressive. Share Now came out with a very big offer or low offer, which made absolutely no sense. We can also see that they've stopped that. I don't know if it was part of this selling process or they had to show something, but it didn't make any sense. Now I think we see a different behavior, probably due to this change in ownership and different focus. In general, looking across Europe, I think we do see some of our competitors moving, but still to a limited extent.
We see some movement in Belgium from both a local operator called Poppy and also a German operator called MILES. In general, I expect that the sort of the market circumstances, the consumer situation we have at the moment will impact everyone. If we're not growing, then most likely our competitors are not growing either. It's a little simplified, of course, I think at the moment, most operators are focusing on running the existing business. It will open possibilities of increasing market shares. We could also see a scenario where more and more people start using share cars if they are forced to selling their own car or something else. There are different possibilities in the market going forward.
Yeah, it's always difficult to predict what our competitors will do.
I will not ask you. Then, let's finish up with this and final question. It's a hard question. Germany looks really expensive for you. Sorry. It's in a way into a recession, and maybe the German consumer is the hardest hit. You have the lowest revenue per car. Would it make sense to move some of that market out where there's better possibilities for you? Or maybe if I can put it the other way, are the German market and getting a foot in there too important for you to consider this?
Well, I think, Anders Wall, there are a number of ways of looking at this and thereby also answering it. First off, I think in sort of just on the spotlight then yes, DKK 800 per car is low. But if you put it in relation for how long we've actually been on the market, then I think it's absolutely fair. When we go back and see some of the other countries where they started, then it's a similar level. So, the level as such, I'm not concerned about. Germany is a big market, it is a strong market as well, so I think I expect we will see a similar growth, at least in Germany. If...
Germany is hit by a recession, for sure. If that accelerates, that can limit the growth, and it can also open for this question at least to consider, should we change something in the setup? I'm not gonna give you a precise answer to the question.
I was not expecting an answer.
It requires more, but I think the best I can say is that we ongoingly are looking at how best to protect the business, how, where can we adapt, where does it make sense to adapt on short term and long term. We do this of course to ultimately preserve cash and make sure that the business is run in the best possible way. If there are ways where we can optimize the business on sort of on a bigger scale, even though if it means changing in some areas of the company, everything in my mind everything is open. It is something that we have to assess before just jumping to a conclusion. I don't see.
We're not heading down a negative slope, at least not yet, so we have time to do it, and we do it cleverly. I think that's the important part.
I think unfortunately we are running out of time. I'm very grateful to the listeners that they didn't ask it in Swedish or Norwegian or French, but kept it to German, English, and Danish.
Well, I was looking forward to Poland or something like that, or Finland maybe.
Yeah, Finnish would maybe be even worse. I'm educating. Thank you to everybody for listening in. Thank you to you, Anders.
Thank you, Michael Friis.
or joining us through the event and have a nice day to everybody.
Perfect. Same to you.