Hi, and welcome to everybody joining us at this event, where we have the pleasure to present GreenMobility. As always, it's CFO, Anders Wall, who will take us through the presentation and answer questions. The occasion, Q3 2023 trading statement, and the headline was pretty easy. You put it up on yourself. You have had the first months with, with net profitability, so of course, that will- I guess, that will be some of the themes. As always, ask questions in the box down below. Do it in English, do it in Danish. In Danish, I will try and translate to the best of my abilities. For now, I think I will hand the call over to you, Anders.
Perfect. Thank you, Michael, and welcome everyone for this Q3 trading statement presentation. And you're very right, it's been an exciting quarter, some big milestones for GreenMobility. I'm sure we'll have plenty of challenges going forward as well, but we've taken a big step in the right and strategic direction for the company. But let's dive into it, and start with one of our usual statuses, the locations haven't changed, so still Finland, Denmark, Belgium, and Netherlands. You see some increases in trips and in customers as well. I think they are pretty much as standard.
One of the things you will notice here, and then I'll come back to it as well, that the fleet size has dropped slightly, and it's due to some reorganization in the fleet that's currently going on. I think we expect it to go on in the coming months as well, but I'll come back to that. Overall, looking at Q3, a 20%, 22% above last year, same time, or year to date last year, and something I think is quite aligned with our expectations as well. Important as well, net result, or net loss, if you like, has been improved by 40%. Of course, this is a big step for GreenMobility.
It's, and of course, Q3 is also a big part of that, being the quarter where we had the first month of profitability. These are the steps that we've initiated, essentially already from the start of the year, taking a strategic change into bringing GreenMobility to a profitable level by, or in 2024. A step that we chose to adjust the business for, by closing two markets, but also taking some significant adjustment steps across our markets, and ultimately, also, the cost reductions we carried out in June. These are the results that we're seeing now, and expect, of course, that we will see more results from this as well.
All in all, a growth also, well, on top line compared to last year, but also compared to same quarter last year, and more or less, compared to second quarter in 2023. Of course, the third quarter here is also usually impacted by summer vacations in July, August, little depending on which market we're in. We've seen those effects as well, that more and more people are traveling and of course, not having their usual mobility habits for a period of time. We've also seen.
To that question, you know, I do understand that July and August is tough months here in Denmark, but are you getting tourists? I guess, are there also tourists, and if you live in Copenhagen, you know there's a lot of tourists. Are you trying to reach out to them, or are you getting actually some of the tourists traveling in from some of the countries where you've been before?
Well, we are getting tourists. I think it's definitely an area where we can do more. I think step one is that we get the tourists that are from some of the other countries we are already operating in. For them, it's natural because they already have the app, they can use it. Then secondly, we see tourists who, in their home country, places where we don't operate, but they're still used to having car sharing. To them, it's also natural to look for it. But there's definitely more to be done. And ultimately, it's about reaching the tourists at the point where they need mobility, whether at the airport, where we're quite visible.
Mm
B ut also at a timing where they need it. So we already have some corporations with hotels and other organizations to promote tourists, tourism. But tourists, as we probably all know from our own vacations, they're not always predictable when and where they go, but it's definitely a business as well. For now, it doesn't cover, it doesn't make up for the ones who are leaving the market for a few weeks.
Then some of the other things we've seen in the markets, when we turn to Denmark specifically, we've seen announcement of new parking rules for more specifically for Copenhagen, but also expected for Aarhus, where EVs will now and are expected to have to pay for parking from next year on. We're happy to see that, based on our dialogue with the city of Copenhagen, where they actually favor the solutions that we have. They have put forward a definition that we will fall under a residence permits, which will, of course, and likely have a small cost for us, but not compared to ordinary electric vehicles. So although we have.
So if that will be the case, it's not dramatically changing the business model-
No, I think.
Of the company.
No, I think, and that's the key point that expecting that free parking for EVs would remain forever is at best optimistic. Because ultimately, this is not specific for Copenhagen; it's for every city. At one point it will change. We've seen it in other markets as well. I think that the key point is that by working with the cities, we're able to find solutions where we actually contribute to the city, and they then offer us a sort of a bit alternative. And this is a level, as you also said, that has not a drastic effect on the business.
So, the customer will not be asked to pay. It still will be the same model as always, because that's one of your advantages, that when we dive into the city, we want to use a GreenMobility, because that's the cheapest way of getting be in here a couple of hours. So that's not going to change.
No
By this?
I mean, and I think that's important also to say that our business has always focused on it being very transparent and easy for the customer to know what the price of the service is.
Yeah.
So, no, we are gonna add additional then that would be a different scenario altogether. But, no, we don't expect that to happen, and we don't expect it to have any significant impact on the business. So, all be happy with that, and then the cities are still seeing the benefits of shared and of course sustainable mobility as well. I think that's the key point for them as well, that they improve the environment in the cities and something that we absolutely support.
Perfect.
Then we've, as Søren, so we've had a... and are still having a huge focus on our operations to lower cost, transitioning our fleet, come back to that as well. And of course, to drive the company towards a profitable level as soon as possible. But as we mentioned in our half-year report, we've also explored ways of sort of adding some cushion to our liquidity position. And as part of that, we've secured a credit line with our bank for DKK 20 million. So for now, that's the cushion that we would like to have, and we can focus entirely on operating the business and getting into our results.
Yeah, I think that pretty much covers this. We have our fleet development, I mentioned it briefly before. I think that this is an integral part of the strategic change that we look at. To bring GreenMobility into a profitable level, we're doing several things. One is realizing the possible upsides that we have in our balance simply from the current holding values and the car versus market value. Some of these cars have a good or better holding values. Of course, these are ways of realizing positive gains for GreenMobility. Some of what we've done in Q3, some of it we will also do in the coming months, probably also into next year.
There's a financial part of that, but there's also a strategic part in switching the cars for cars that have either a lower holding cost, so the cost for us on a monthly basis will be reduced, but potentially also cars that can generate a higher revenue. Typical could be bigger cars, more premium cars that you can take for longer trips as well, so higher range. I think this is all in line with the changes we've seen on the EV markets. Remember when, I don't know if all remember when GreenMobility started, there were 2, maybe 3, electric car models on the market. Today, it's more than 50.
I haven't even got the full count of it, possibly more. So that opens up for new opportunities. And I think we will also look at having sort of a bigger width in the fleet, and not only or mainly the Renault Zoe, but look at various models. It could also be various brands to have a bit more variety in the fleet.
And you have indicated this earlier on, that maybe you would actually be looking a little bit on more of the premium cars. But
Yeah
A s maybe you're getting a little bit stronger now or more determined to do it. Is, is that because you actually see that, that you can get this premium price, that you're seeing it in your data on the cars, the premium cars that are driving, that they actually deliver good results? Should I interpret it that or?
Yes, the short answer, but so the flavor behind is that it comes with two things. One is that there is a bigger revenue to be made on these cars. It's a different usage. If you have like the Renault ZOE, it's typically used for quick, small, everyday trips, whereas if you have a larger or premium car, you may use it for longer trips. That's it. So the difference in usage also drives bigger revenue. So that's definitely a key part. Then I think there's also a customer experience in it that you are able to drive other cars as well.
We do see from the cars that we have today that they are able to generate a higher revenue, and of course, that's, I would almost say, an easy win. It's definitely a step to take and increase that. We are not gonna put in 500 large cars tomorrow. That's not the case, but it's something to increase and have a bigger variety. Of course, the development and the growth in that area will follow very much the revenue that they're able to take up. Perfect. And of course, I mean, to go against what I said before, if there is a market to have 500, we are happy to have 500.
But I think it has to be done in stages, so we can monitor the effect, sort of month by month or quarter by quarter. Yeah, and just to sort of, as I said, this last one on this, what we've done already, we've introduced some more vans initially in Denmark. And it's also to have a sort of bigger width in that part of the business as well, vans are still a small part, but we introduced some Mercedes eVito , so having a slightly larger van to offer as well. And they've obviously only been in the fleet for a few weeks, but already we're seeing good trends in them.
We're prepared to add additional in that segment as well. Going from that and into sort of an outlook or at least for the coming months, it's clear also from our Q3 that the actions that we have taken have sort of contributed positively towards our strategic plan for going towards 2024. With, of course, the profit in September, but also a lot of other actions that will have effects in the coming months. One of them is the cost reductions we did in June. The last ones of those will have full effect going into Q4 as well.
Of course, some of them were related to some employees that we reduced, and there's a full effect coming into this. So we also expect the coming months to be interesting for GreenMobility and of course continue the path towards our long-term goals. Sorry. As mentioned before, we've improved and also secured our liquidity position, so we have the needed working capital to take the next steps. With that said, we continue to assess possible alternatives, as we also mentioned in a half-year report.
For now, we have, we believe that, that sort of the liquidity part is well secured and enables us to take the next steps in our business. From here, jumping into the different markets, Copenhagen as being our, still our, of course, our oldest and also most mature market, we have a little more than 600 cars in Copenhagen. They continue to develop quite strongly. As you may recall from some of the previous quarters, we added quite significantly cars to Copenhagen in the beginning of the year as we closed Sweden.
And of course, that had an effect on sort of short term on the market, but it's also clear that Copenhagen has been able to quite quickly absorb that. And of course, Copenhagen is also the main contributor when we look at profit base. Copenhagen continues to be a profitable part of our business, and also where we see the potential to increase further in time. Going to Aarhus, our second city here in Denmark, also an area where we increased the fleet in beginning of the year. It's developing, continues to develop. We would like to see more actions in Aarhus as well. We've adapted our zone during the summer and also after the zone.
So adding a bit more business operation out in the area, allowing for more customers, but also a number of commercial partners in form of hotels, shopping areas, and so on, to be able to support a bigger business area there. Going a bit south for Belgium. Belgium is, as you know, also one of our older markets, where we also we literally, we increased the fleet, we doubled the fleet, sorry, in the beginning of the year, moving roughly 200 cars from Germany into Belgium. And what's clear also there, of course, there's a direct effect on that when we look at revenue per car. Of course, the total revenue continues to grow in Belgium as well.
Belgium is also the market where we are currently also selling cars, and, and realizing, some gains in that, and that's related to the original part of the fleet in, in Belgium, that we are selling, and, and also Belgium looking at, can we, insert, more premium or bigger cars as alternatives? We don't expect them to- we don't, we, we have no plans of, changing them for new Zoes, but rather looking at, at alternative cars and, and also adjusting the fleet size in, in Belgium, with this. So, so we continue to have a, a stronger and, and a growing revenue per car.
We see more or less the same in Netherlands, although not quite the same history going back, but here also an effect from increasing the fleet. We are at a point where we are also looking at, or we are in the process of reducing cars. We're taking some out in Netherlands, simply because we want to see a more steady growth in revenue per car. Amsterdam remains a strong city for car sharing. So it's and maybe we were a bit quick in adding or doubling the fleet size in January.
We're adjusting the fleet slightly over the coming months, but also expect revenue to grow coming into Q4. Usually there's also a strong quarter in the Belgium and Dutch market. Last but not least, our most Nordic market in Finland. Finland has actually had a, I would say, well, good summer, good third quarter, essentially the best quarter ever in many ways, both per car, but of course also in total revenue, which is, I would say, a very promising development.
If you may remember that last year we increased the fleet in Finland from roughly 65 cars to 150 cars, so more than doubling the fleet, which we did in the summertime last year. They have actually grown quite significantly, based on this fleet size, and of course, in full expectations that they will reach profitability next year as well. For, sort of to wrap these slides up, also just to reconfirm that we maintain the guidance that we put in the market, we maintain that for 2023, the guidance that we updated as part of our half-year report. For now, there is no changes to that. That was-
Let's start with some question, Anders, and.
Sure
E ven if it's, let's jump a little bit away from the figures. There's a question here: "What plans do we have from development on your digital side of your business?" And there are some customer feedback. I will give it to you now, Anders. It's a little bit slow to show the cars when you scroll on the route. And there's also a question.
Right
Regarding that. It's hard to see the new Mercedes vans you put in, whether it's a big van or a smaller van, unless you go to the car. So, questions, you are cost-cutting, so let's go to the customer feedback. But are you also cost-cutting on the development on your user side, the digital side? Or is that still very much in focus? Let's start there, and then you have gotten the feedbacks to how you could maybe make it better.
We are very much a digital-based company, and it's certainly a huge enabler, but it's also something that drives our development and our operation. No, we will continue to develop that, and I think that's an area of our business where we will probably never be done, because there will always be new possibilities, new ideas. Internally, we have a, I would almost say fight or a friendly fight on what should be the top priority in our development. We continue to develop. Of course, everything is ultimately a resource matter as well. What part do we prioritize first? There are definitely ways, there are many ways.
We also get customer feedback, which we always appreciate, because that gives us some true life experiences. But, but no, development will continue. Absolutely. I think that's an area we will never stop.
Perfect. There's a question here: "How is the decline in electrical vehicles affect your earlier comments on earning money on your fleet?" I guess every day we pick up the newspaper, we are seeing again, price reductions and that used electrical cars are setting new, not price records, but they're often... Does that affect your earlier comments that you hope to gain some liquidity and some earnings from selling your fleet?
Yeah. Realizing value in our fleet, of course, is very much tied also to the current holding cost level. Because at least some of our fleet is, a big part of our fleet is, you could say, slightly to the older side, which means it also has a good book value... versus the market. I think what's implied here is also that the market has gone down, and of course it has. We're still able to retain some value on it, and I think that's the focus on it.
The other side is, of course, that if, when we look at new market value going down, that creates an opportunity for us as well, when we look at the holding costs going forward.
Yeah, yeah, I guess we always, there's been some questions always focusing on the negative side on your, on your - on what you have on your balance, and that's, that's very natural because it's a - you have a, you have, some on your, on your balance. But, but looking forward, the prices going down on, on, on the electrical vehicles, could that lower your, your, your price for, for running a, a vehicle substantially or, or, or something that would be felt in your business model? Is that your feeling, looking a little bit ahead, that, that .
Right
Y ou could actually lower this 7,000-
I think it's-
D KK 7,500 threshold for earning on a car?
That's what we, that's what we're looking, that's what we're looking into, that's what we're expecting. I think we've also had a big shift on many parts when we look, Compared to when we started the company, where holding the cars for a long period made sense. Now, there is at least some advantages in holding the cars for a shorter period of time, and that will ultimately, that will contribute also to reducing the holding cost of the cars. To answer your question, yes, can we, can we reduce, let's say, the holding costs by DKK 500? Well, given the, sort of, the size of the fleet, that has a significant impact on the cost per month.
And then there's a question: what is the idea behind you having other Cities than Copenhagen, which is.
Mm
5 0% of the revenue, you have six other cities. Could you not just build out Copenhagen and Aarhus, and maybe with some hubs in some of the other bigger Jutlandish areas or Aalborg, the triangle area? I'm not sure. I'm coming from there, but I'm not sure what the English word is, and Odense. So still a little bit about why you keep your international and hubs and not just concentrating on Denmark?
Well, it's an absolutely fair question, and I see sort of the thinking behind. But I think there are several things. One, I mean, our clear vision, our goal is to be an international player in this field. Of course, that takes, it does take some time to build that up. But you also have to look at, sort of, the time spent. So Copenhagen has been in operation longer than any of our other markets, and when you sort of look at when did we hit the break-even level in Copenhagen versus where are the other markets, then they are actually not that far off. Of course, it has an impact when we double the fleet, that makes it a little bit more difficult to compare.
But I would say the value for GreenMobility, also on a longer perspective, is that we are a larger operator, that we're able to operate across markets. Because we do have some larger operators around Europe as well, and I think our value is also to compete with them. But of course, it's something that we should always evaluate. We, as we did earlier in the year, we closed two markets. So, we are. I think we should always be ready to take those actions, when and if needed. But I think the long-term value for GreenMobility is also to operate across markets.
And maybe to turn that question a little bit around and say: Is it that much more expensive for you to operate in Helsinki and so on? I know building up and marketing. So is it that much more expensive for you to be cross-border, you know?
No
O perating in Helsinki from a hub in Copenhagen and so on? So, that, you know, we always ask companies who go across the Danish border, but if the cost is not that much higher, you know, then you can argue with that, maybe the business model there is okay doing it.
Yeah.
So, is there such a big difference?
No. As the way we see it, and I think the way we've also built our operation and our structure, is to have as much done in one location, so here in Copenhagen, in terms of marketing, customer service, IT, and all that. So each market has as little local operation as possible, and that's usually tied only to the cars. So in terms of cleaning, repositioning, charging, repairs, whatever is needed for the fleet to move, but not to have a big local team or big local cost. So in that sense, you could. The sort of cost level of adding a market is tied entirely to the cars, and thereby it's also less.
But of course, it does require that we build up revenue, and we do it.
Yeah
R easonably fast, because otherwise it will just continue to be cost.
But that would be the same problem in Denmark, I guess, if you opened a new city,
Yeah, I mean, if we went into,
It's that,
I f we went into Aalborg and had, let's say 100 cars in Aalborg, it would be the same case. So to me, the difference between Aalborg or Helsinki or anywhere is the same, because I would also need a local team in Aalborg. The only places where we are able to actually utilize having one Team is when we have cities close to each other. And not that many places we are able to do it in Copenhagen, where we have Roskilde as well. We do have some cross-city operation in Belgium as well, and we potentially could have in the Netherlands as well, because you have some cities, rather large cities, that are close to Amsterdam.
That's the clustering idea that we're also looking for when looking at possible new markets. Of course, you can go from Copenhagen to Aalborg, but it takes some time, and it defies the idea. So, yeah.
Then there's three questions regarding all also regarding the same amount, and I don't know whether you want to disclose it, but how much of the September results is derived from you selling cars and getting a profit from that from your balance sheet?
I think you should see it as part of our sort of strategic structure going forward, that we will have a increasing number of cars being sold and bought. So we haven't disclosed the specific figure. But I think it will also become evident when looking at our annual report.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you Q4 are now measuring up against the, I guess is-
Yeah
I f we look at the progress and the July, August, and then the September, I guess, and you say that you will expect lower cost or better operating profit, that should give kind of an indication maybe on the size of what is. Is that a fair assumption?
It is. It is.
Perfect. And then, there's a direct question also, I don't know whether you want to do that. Is the revenue in Denmark around DKK 21 million? I guess, for the quarter.
Uh-
Whether you want to disclose that.
Yeah, well, I'm assuming that the person is sort of doing quick calculation based on the graphs before. So, I think it's a little less than that. I have to say right now, I don't have the specific figure in front of me.
And then, time equals capital. How much cash would you need in the next three years to fulfill the vision of your company?
Okay, uh-
So I think we are going into the, you might say, the road ahead, and the different ways you can take that.
It's, it's, it's of course a guessing game, right? That- and it has so many variables. But so, so the, so maybe it's better to sort of look at what are the variables. If we look into sort of our aspirations of being in 35 Cities in, in, in 2030, that will of course require some kind of capital or acquisition of competitors or something else. To put a figure on that, I think that would be that would probably be unwise of me, because it can be lower, it can be higher. So, so I think we will- the best I can say is that we are, we're committed to our aspiration of being a leader in this market.
But step one, the very key step one, is to bring the group as it is today into profitability and then grow from there. I think we touched a little bit upon it in a half year, maybe, presentation. Will it be organically growth from there, or will it be equity funded growth? Again, that ties also very much to the speed of what we're doing. Because, being profitable, we will surely be able to grow and also expand. But to do, let's say, for example, 10 new markets, in a year, which we haven't done before, that will require some capital. And ultimately, these are decisions that we haven't taken yet.
I think we've also seen in the past few years a lot of external factors that no one anticipated. So that will also drive the, sort of the speed and the size of the expansion. But first thing is really to have the company into a profitable level, and then we start making the next set of plans.
Perfect. That, that's what we have to hold on as your 24 goals. Perfect. Anders, I think we have went, we have gotten through all the questions. Thank you to, for the audience listening. Thank you for a lot of good questions taken-
Thank you, all.
A s the case, and thank you, Anders, for answering them and taking us through your results. May everybody have a nice day.
Absolutely. You too.