Hello, and welcome to the Q&A session of the Proximus International Capital Market Day. My name is Seb, and I will be the moderator. Please note that this Q&A session is being recorded. You will have the opportunity to ask a question by using the raise a hand option within Teams, but we will not take questions from the chat. May I please ask you to limit yourself to two questions to give everyone an opportunity to ask one? You can afterwards re-enter the queue. Our first question comes from David Vagman, from ING. You can unmute yourself, and if you desire, activate your mic, your camera.
So I start with the governance question. I hope you can hear me okay here. There is a bit of echo, but, hopefully you can, you can hear us okay. So on the governance, so first we have, you know, as from the start, when we signed the deal, I think, one year ago, we always said that Christophe will be responsible for, Christophe Van de Weyer for DI across all entities, that Rajdeep will be responsible for CPaaS across all entities. What we announced today, that also BICS will be fully integrated in that operating model going forward, saying that all the carrier activities of BICS will be also managed the same way, you know, with a new leader for that business line to be appointed by the end of the summer. Today, I'm acting as the responsible for the carrier activity for the international activities of Proximus.
So you're going to have three business leaders, and then you're going to have some support entities on product, from go-to-market, from ops, that will be centrally organized, so that we can maximize the synergy, but also make sure that we have a one clear execution path and also a clear set of common objectives in between the different entities of the group. So that's the way we will operate going forward.
David, thanks for the question. So how should you think about it? Maybe take a step back. I think the overall targets are constituted, as you pointed out, BICS, Telesign, and Route Mobile . I think, as always, as you get from us, we've been very thoughtful in terms of how we put together our guidance. I think on the revenue side, I think, you know, we've been, we've, you know, we've seen and we've been talking about that in previous quarterly earnings in terms of some of the market trends we're seeing, specifically on the revenue, on, you know, the headwinds for instance on the P2P voice. But we've thought that very carefully across the three entities.
We've given you guidance very clearly about how that translated to direct margin. And I think, you know, we are very, very focused on our direct margin guidance because of some of those volatility elements and the fact that it doesn't always translate to direct margin, which is really the way we see the health of the business. So that's a little bit about how we came to the guidance today. And I think, again, I'm sure we're going to get into a little bit more of the direct margin, what the constituent parts of that, and the EBITDA guidance. But again, hopefully, you'll see that it's a very, very strong story when you look at the 2024 numbers or even further out to 2026. Hopefully helps you constitute the how we put the guidance together.
Very, very, very little. I think what you, why we want to have those three entities operating together, because if you want to win the CPaaS business, you have to make sure you have the best route to deliver the message. And BICS is bringing that direct connectivity to MNOs, you know, all over the world. And that's a key competitive advantage compared to other competitors in the CPaaS activity industry of the market today. So having strong and direct routes to MNOs all over the world is a key competitive advantage compared to not having those routes.
That's why having the different entities, the connect part, the CP networks part, along with the engagement platform, is so important for us and for me, you know, as a key strategic enabler of the growth of the group going forward. Within BICS, we have a very small CPaaS platform. Within it is Mobtexting, but that's very limited and very small, and that will be, you know, integrated within the CPaaS platform of Route Mobile . And both platforms are today operated out of India, so that means that it will be quite an easy process to integrate the two platforms altogether.
Thank you. Our next question comes from Nicolas Cote-Colisson from HSBC. Please unmute yourself. You are still muted, Nicolas. I see that he has removed himself, so the next question comes from Akhil Dattani from JP Morgan. Please unmute yourself.
Okay. So I try to start with the first question around the CPaaS market. So first, you need to look at the, you know, underlying trends of that business. You know, engagement platforms, connection between hyperscalers, but not only hyperscalers, large organizations, and more and more smaller organizations in between their services and the end customers. And that trend is not going to slow down. To the contrary, it's a trend that will accelerate over time. So the need to have more intelligent conversations in between end users and services being delivered by hyperscalers, national enterprises or smaller-sized organizations, that trend is going to continue to be growing quite fast going forward.
The second element you see is that, you know, the main channel to deliver that, those messages or those conversations, will shift from being mostly SMSs towards omni-channel kind of, approach. Meaning that SMSs will be probably, still 50%, of the channel used, by 2026, but the other channels are going to develop themselves. So WhatsApp, RCS, Viber, Voice, and those channels will take 50%, of the, of the share of voice of the, of the preferred channels for, for end users.
So the key is then, you know, if you look at the revenue trends of those markets, in the, when you send an SMS, you have to pay a termination fee to the MNO, and that termination fee is considered as a revenue, but also as a cost for CPaaS players. So imagine when you shift from an environment where most of the messages are SMSs to an environment where half of the messages are SMSs, the rest is on other channels, then you have a mechanical effect on the cost paid by hyperscalers or large organizations to deliver a message, with no effect for the CPaaS players on the margins they are making, just an effect on the revenue they are making.
That's why sometimes some industry analysts are a bit confused on what is the value of that market. The value of the market, the cost to deliver the message will diminish, but the value for the people delivering that services will still grow quite fast, and that's what is reflected in the way we look when you look at the organization, this is what is reflected. So more caution on the revenue line, but we are still very confident that on the direct margin, we'll grow super fast. And that's really the way you should look at the opportunity. Why, on top of that, we believe that we can beat that 10%-15% CAGR?
I would say that probably that the DM, at the DM level, we should see that, so direct margin or gross profit, level, you should see that kind of, of trends for, for the CPaaS, players and for the industry. Why we think we can build that? Because first, we have the, delivery machine, that direct connectivity to a lot of, of MNOs all over the world. That's a key, as I said, already, a key, success factor for, for the industry going forward, because you want quality routes, and you want low latency when you deliver the message. So that's super important. Second, exposure to fast-growing geographies.
If you look at our competition on the CPaaS activity, very few of them are as exposed to geographies where you see the fastest growth in terms of digital adoption and need for this kind of engagement services. And we are exposed to India, we're exposed to Africa. We are more exposed than others to Asia, where you see a very strong market growth. And the adoption of these services, and that the last point I would share with you today, if you look at the— It's still super, you know, penetration of those services are still very low.
Only 50% of the corporations, large corporations today are using a CPaaS platform to deliver their messages to the end users. We expect that number to be 90% within three years. So if you combine those three elements, that's, that's where we believe, where, I think that, that market, the need, that demand, will continue to expand. The cost to deliver that services will diminish, but for CPaaS players, it will be an opportunity to still grow very, very nicely, strongly, our, our gross profit or Direct Margin, if you want to use that, that line to look at the business. That's why, again, revenue for CPaaS is not that relevant. Gross profit or direct margin are the relevant KPI to look at.
And if you look at the trajectory we share with you today, I think it's quite nice trajectory in line with the fact that we still believe, and that's, you know, it's not only us, I think the industry still believe that the need for conversations, engagement of customers with high quality is something that will continue to develop over time.
Maybe I'll just add to it. I think also there's a synergistic element to the growth level as well, that our competitors don't have, Akhil. So I think that when you add that to the mix, I think that adds to our confidence. In terms of the pathways, look, I think, you know, where we are today is we're very, very confident in terms of what we've set out in terms of the path of the organization. In terms of what we're going to focus on first, we're clearly we've spent, you know, the last eight or nine months preparing for this moment. We're ready. We're going to be laser focused on delivering the synergies. That's really important.
Capturing the organic growth, as Guillaume said, I think we have fantastic platform, fantastic go-to-market, ready to capture that organic growth. And then, as I said, we put on the slides, there are multiple paths to expose that growth to investors in the future, and we will explore those in the midterm. That's our thought process at the moment.
I think it depends, of course, on the geographies that you consider, but you know, RCS in Asia-Pacific is almost ready for prime time.
Thank you. The next question comes from Roshan Ranjit from Deutsche Bank. Please unmute yourself, and if you desire, activate your camera.
Roshan, let me start. I mean, we're not giving, you know, that exact mix, but I think if you take the—t he way I'd go at it is that, you know, we've said that we fully believe that we'll take the top end of our, of our, you know, inter-domain, segments in terms of CPaaS, mobility. I think if you look at that and apply those type of growth rates, you very quickly get to what P2P will be. So clearly, it'll be a small proportion of the business, by the time we get to 2026. So that's a little bit how I would think about it. I think you can get to that kind of trajectory, more or less from what we've been able to provide. But we're not actually providing that level of granularity at this point.
But today, if you look at the voice business of BICS, we are number 4 in the world in terms of market share. And we're also positioning ourselves more and more into a partner to help other operators to outsource this voice business to us, so that we can scale our existing platforms. And that we're gonna see also more. So we have that kind of last man standing approach also for that voice activity, which I think could also demonstrate why we can beat that declining market trends over time. And that's something that we will probably also continue to look at, in terms of making some new successes acquisitions, in terms of outsourcing voice platforms for giving outsource services for voice platforms to other operators.
On the geographical footprint question and the complementarity between our activity within BICS, our activity within Root and our activity within Telesign, I think the very nice element of that transaction is that, of course, in terms of cost, we're gonna have the best operating cost model, because we're gonna, you know, have all our platforms operated out of India, which is, you know, quite good in terms of our ability to be extremely efficient for platform development.
But in terms of of customers, of course, the footprint of Route Mobile is way more exposed to the fast-growing geographies that are already been mentioned by in the presentation, in the deck, and that I mentioned earlier also in the in the Q&A session, where I think we can leverage that go-to market capability of Root in India, of course, but also in some other geographies that are fast growing in Africa and also in the in other parts of Asia, where Telesign is not that exposed today. So I think one of the key assets we have as a group is that go-to market reach, because with BICS, we talk to all operators in the world.
When you think about the firewall capabilities of Route Mobile , we have to go to market with BICS to sell those firewall capabilities to MNOs, so that they can be protected against fraudulent messages. And then when you look at the revenue synergies that we presented today, that's the one of the key elements is to leverage access to those different geographies, where today Root is mostly selling CPaaS, but tomorrow those go-to markets and sales people will be not only selling CPaaS, but also DI. And that reach is one of the key advantage of the deal.
Now we have a worldwide reach, and then we can, you know, cross-sell our products in every sales call that we can have, because those products are quite adjacent, and you're talking a bit to the same people when you are selling the two products. So that's the way you should look at it. So very complementary geographical footprint in terms of go-to-market, that we want to leverage to cross-sell as much as we can our different products.
Thank you. The next questions comes from Kris Kippers from Degroof Petercam. Please unmute yourself. Yes, you can.
Yeah, K ris. So in terms of the upgrade, I think you, if you take a look, the overall cost synergies are in line with what we discussed before. So again, we've been doing some pre-merger integration for the last 8 or 9 months. And so we, you know, as Guillaume alluded to, we see some fantastic opportunities in terms of across the both platforms, in terms of the growth in some of the markets that we're now gonna have exposure to from both sides of the acquisition. So in terms of, you know, that's really where you'll see the upgrade come from.
I think the confidence level is very high, on both the cross-selling revenue synergies, the cost of goods sold, which is effectively taking a view around our termination, optimizing our termination costs in terms of the best route, quality, pricing, optimization. And then on the OpEx side, I think, you know, it's, it's, it's all around, again, what Guillaume touched on in terms of optimizing across our global footprint to ensure that we've got the go-to market, the research and development, administration of the business done in the right place. So in terms of overall synergies, I think we're super confident in terms of the delivery of that. Again, in terms of the timing, we spent a lot of time thinking through, you know, the phasing of that. And again, we've given you some guidance about where that will come today. So hopefully that is super helpful for your outlook.
I think on responsibility, I can take that question. I think we have a very clear slide on it. I think and I don't know which number it is, Nancy, but we have a clear stance on who is responsible for what. So you have that team will be responsible for doing the synergies. So it's a combination of the business line leaders, huh? That's Rajdeep, Christophe, and the new leader for carrier services that will be appointed by the end of the summer. And then we have the technology for the group, the product management for the group, which is Milind, and then we have operation, which is Antoine.
And then you have the support, supporting cast, which for finance, marketing, and strategy. So that's the team that will be responsible for driving those synergies. So I think it's quite, you know, straightforward. I think the objective is quite also clear here. I think we give to ourself a time horizon of 3-5 years to find a moment to crystallize that value, and that's the way we also will operate. That in those international activities, so that, you know, in case we need to do that, organize that crystallization moment, we are ready for it.
That the mindset and the way we'll operate those activities, so that's the moment we can crystallize, we'll do it, and we will prepare for it. So that's what one element. Second element is I think the way we're gonna drive it and steer it will be also extremely focused. And again, if you look at the ambition of Rajdeep, for example, he has reinvested half of the proceeds of the deal within Opal. And he will be extremely incentivized to, as the management team of the international activities of Proximus, get to that crystallization and value crystallization moment. And I think this is very, what is nice with that framework, that we have all interests aligned, and because Rajdeep now is co-invested in Opal, and we'll all be running to demonstrate to investors that we can create a significant amount of value linked to those activities.
Thank you. The next questions come from Siyi He from Citigroup. Please unmute yourself. You are still on mute.
Yeah, we hear you now, Siyi. Sure. Let me touch on—a s I touched on the start of the conversation, I think on the revenue side of the business, I think there are dynamics in the domains of P2P and CPaaS, that make the revenue element not the key measure of the you know, what we'd say is the health of the business. That's why we really focus on direct margin. But there are elements in terms of the market evolution. Just pointing to, you know, we talked a little bit earlier about the P2P evolution, where was, you know, what will happen in that market. CPaaS is moving to omni-channel, and therefore, you know, we've taken those market evolutions into consideration in our revenue guidance.
But then when we look at Direct Margin, again, and we'll talk more and more as we talk about the international business over the coming earnings seasons. The guidance there is really based on our view as we set out in terms of the market growth of the domains, so CPaaS, Digital Identity, mobility, and P2P. And it clearly also has an element, as I alluded to earlier, of the synergy realization that will come through over the next three years in terms of giving us that kind of CAGR ambition. And we've considered it carefully.
So I think, again, as we had a question earlier, I think it's an ambitious goal we set ourselves, but it's one that we think is manageable and achievable over the next three years or two and a half years. Yeah, and I think, again, there is a slide in the deck around where we expect our overall net debt to EBITDA guidance to come. I think the, you know, the 2024 guidance is a reflection of the financing of this transaction.
But we continue, and again, if you look at our EBITDA guidance for the group, we set out the Capital Markets Day and the effect that this will have on the overall international inclusion of that, clearly that will start to de-lever ourselves from 2025 onwards. And I think that continues to be our ambition, to keep our operating debt to EBITDA leverage in the guided area that we talked about in the Capital Markets Day.
But to add to what Mark just said, I think the focus of the team now is really to deliver the synergies, make sure that we can deliver the growth ambition we shared with you this morning. That's really where we are in terms of thought process. You know, make sure we can, you know, deliver that integration, deliver the synergies, and make sure we can grow faster than the markets.
Thank you. The next question comes from Nicolas Cote-Colisson from HSBC. Please unmute yourself.
We hear you, Nicolas.
So I think it's a need to say, you know, how we can organize our product suite going forward. But the idea we have is that we don't want to operate our international activities based on the three entities. I think we want to have, you know, business line leaders so that we can operate our different business lines independently of what is the legal entity behind the scenes. And that's really the mindset to which we want to have our go-to-market teams, but our product teams and also the business line leaders, so Rajdeep and Christophe. So Rajdeep, indeed, will be responsible for the CPaaS activities that is today delivered at Route Mobile , but also today delivered at Telesign.
So we will have that overall responsibility across Telesign and Route Mobile legal entities. So that's extremely important to understand. And then today, we'll see how it goes, but little by little, I think we want to have one brand on— I will say it differently. We want to have one platform for CPaaS and one platform for DI. Today, we have two platforms for DI, because, you know, Root is also active in the digital identity activity as well. And we have probably three platforms of CPaaS, because we have the one of Telesign, the one of Route Mobile , and we also have the one of BICS that we mentioned earlier, the Mobtexting platform.
So that we want first to have, make sure that we are, we are using one platform for, every, services that we, that we deliver to end customer. And then there is a branding issue. Do we want to keep the Telesign brand for this? Probably, yes, for the, for the time being, because Telesign is, is a very strong brand for, for some hyperscalers, that are in the U.S. So it might be that we keep the brand, even despite the fact that, the platforms, are, unified, and we are running all our services on one platform. So that branding, as a branding of our product portfolio, we, we see how it evolves.
We might create some simplification, but for sure, now the focus is to make sure that we are not creating negative synergies in transforming too rapidly the branding environment, and so that we are not confusing our customers. So that's two different tracks. The one is on brands, the other one is on platforms. On platform, we're going to accelerate very rapidly, and the objective is to merge those platforms extremely rapidly in the coming year. And all the cost of those platform integrations are reflected in the cost to deliver the synergy that we have shared with you today. No additional marketing costs to be envisaged on top of the cost that you have seen in the deck.
So let me take the first one. I think I mentioned, Nicolas, we muted here, but the—a s I said, we, you know, we confirmed the cost synergies as we did, as we set out the initial set out of the transaction. The revenue synergies are higher, which is one of the elements of the, or is the main element of the upgrade. Our confidence around those revenue synergies are significant. As I said, we've had 9-10 months of pre-merger integration. The teams have been working together where possible. And again, when we look at the geographic, the platform complementarities, we're super confident on that one. In terms of incentivization, I don't know, Guillaume, do you want to talk about that?
Yeah, I think, you know, as it's this market standard to foresee some incentivization programs for this kind of fast-growing social company, that's something we have planned for, and it's also baked into the numbers that we have shared with you.
And then on the interest cost, I think again, I think we've talked multiple times in terms of our, you know, our approximate interest refinancing. We hedged back the 2024 refinancing and the 2025 refinancing. They were hedged at kind of pre-war rates. So we've, you know, we secured that financing. We raised a EUR 700 million bond in March to finance this transaction, and I think we shared at the quarterly earnings the rate there, but it was around 3-3.5 percentage points on that EUR 700 million. So again, it's because of our, you know, credit rating, our ability to manage the balance sheet. I think it's kind of very muted in terms of any significant change on interest costs.
Thank you. As a reminder, if you want to ask a question, please use the Raise Your Hand option within Teams. Our next question comes from Joshua Mills from BNP Paribas. Please unmute yourself.
On the maps, on the cash conversion, what you put in the slides, it would suggest that you're aiming for around EUR 200 million+ of free cash flow from the international segments by 2026. Could you maybe confirm if that's the case? And then the third one was to be a bit more high level on. Clearly, there's been a lot of work to get the deal to this point in time. You've put a very incredible team in place, but there are lots of other challenges facing Proximus at group level into the next few years, not least the launch of Digi into the Belgian market. So how much of your time as a management team is now going to be spent focused on the international segment versus the domestic segment, and how has that changed versus, say, a year ago? Thanks.
So I start with your third question to answer the first one. I think what I've clearly said to you also in the last Q1 meeting is that we have three priorities. First one was to execute on our Route Mobile acquisition so that, you know, make sure we can deliver the growth, deliver synergies. That's number one. Second, was to make sure we can adapt the right way, the market structure when it comes to fiber rollout. That's the second priority for me and for the management team. Third priority is Digi.
And make sure that we can absorb the launch of Digi, but also absorb the launch of Telenet in the south of the country, without, you know, materially affecting our strong commercial momentum that you see since years now. Those are the three priorities for me and for the management team. And everything else is, you know, not on the table. So, I think this is quite clear. And if you look at the, I think it's a good thing that we know when there is an asset to be sold or rumors that we—o ur name is mentioned, because I think we have become, with the acquisition of Route Mobile , one of the most important player in the industry.
But, you know, that said, as I also said to previously in that call, the, you know, priority is today to deliver on the growth and on the synergies, and to make sure we can have a nice framework for fiber collaboration, and make sure that we are still leading commercially for the next 2, 3 years, despite the fact that Digi will be entering the Belgian market. That's the priority, and in terms of time allocation, one third, two thirds is probably a good way to look at the way we allocate our time. And I think then, when we can demonstrate to you that we delivered on our international ambition, that we have adapted the right way, the fiber rollout, our co-investment framework for Belgium, and Digi is not successful in Belgium, then we can talk about other things, but not for the moment.
And Joshua, on the free cash flow, maybe, you know, a couple points. I think, you know, as I said, we're confident on the synergy level. And that synergy level, other than the elements we noted in terms of the initial investment to capture some of the amalgamation of the acquisition, you know, that is meaningful to us, by the time we get to 2026, in terms of the growth that we'll provide from the core business and the synergies. I think also, you know, Telesign, we've been talking for several quarters now, Telesign is becoming past its investment peak and therefore becoming EBITDA generative for the group.
And so, you know, we're, as I said, we're confident in getting to that free cash conversion level. And again, if you do the math, you're, you're kind of in the right, you're in the right range. We don't provide that, that specific guidance, but I think your, your math is, is broadly, broadly in the right direction.
Great. Thanks very much.
Thank you. The next question comes from David Vagman from ING. Please unmute yourself.
Yes, and thank you. A question now on the R&D and the R&D footprints. Can you explain us how it will evolve? So basically, should we expect the DI R&D to move to India, you know, from the U.S. to India? I understand that CPaaS, it's clearly moved to India. That seems clear. Does this imply any, you know, like impact at the level of Telesign? That's the second question. Thank you.
I think in terms of where we're going to operate the company, it's not only about R&D. You have your operations, you have product management, you have product development. I think the idea is that product development will be mostly delivered out of India, where you have the talent to do it, and you have the expertise to do it. So I think this is quite clear, but it's not like we have a rule. I think we'll be also flexible, depending on the type of activities to be considered. But as a trend, you can expect indeed that the product development will be delivered out of India.
But operations need to be also delivered in different geographies to cope with the different time zones of our customers. And product management, then it's a different, bit of a different question, because there you have to be close to your customers. So we'll see whether we can have a more, you know, a more equal repartition between Europe, India, and the US. But the way you should think about it.
David, again, maybe to take you back to the point Guillaume made at the start, you know, we bought Telesign, you know, three years ago for EUR 200 million-EUR 300 million. This deal values Telesign at EUR 1.4 billion. You know, there is no fear of impairment Telesign asset in any way, through this acquisition.
Thanks.
Thank you. The next question comes from Nuno Vaz, from Bernstein SG. Please unmute yourself.
Hi, good afternoon. Thank you very much for the opportunity to ask questions. Two from my side as well. I think relatively simple questions. One, on the timeline of the synergies. Until 2026, we're talking about two and a half years left now. Do you feel confident that is enough time? It feels quite short, especially things such as cross-selling may take a bit more.
Yeah. Yeah, so let me take a little bit on the timing of the synergies again. In the deck, we laid out year 1, year 2, year 3. We're confident that we're going to get them. Is it going to be exactly, you know, one side or the other of the year 3? I think we, you know, we're planning clearly for 2026, but, you know, it's not at 2027, 2028. So I think in terms of the planning of the synergies, we're confident. I said we've spent a lot of time thinking through and planning those. In terms of exposure, the direct margin, it's something that we're pretty experienced in, in terms of some of the work we already do with Telesign, with BICS.
Route Mobile clearly also has been exposed and is able to master that. So it's something we're aware of, but it's not something that we think is going to be a material issue in terms of we've got the experience to do that in the business existing.
As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please use the raise a hand option within Teams. Our next question comes from Michiel Declercq from KBC Securities. Please unmute yourself.
You mentioned that we should really focus on the very important shift. You mentioned by 2026, that will be.
Okay, I start with the DM splitting between SMS and OTT. Today, the vast majority of the DM for CPaaS activities is around SMSs. But the faster growing part is of course on the OTT. And so today also that, you know, that's a reality. So the transition is happening as we speak. But also, you have to also look at the business a bit differently now, because it used to be a transaction business, so that you were trading, you know, SMSs delivery for your customers.
Now you are delivering a service so that you, you're gonna say to your customers: "I will ensure that you're gonna get 99.9% of reachability of your message to the end users, and we're gonna choose for you the best channels for that delivery." So if the best channel to get to 99.9% in 120 seconds of 20 milliseconds of latency, then we're gonna use SMS. If we think that it's a WhatsApp that your customers is preferring, that we're gonna use a WhatsApp, it's RCS, it's gonna be RCS.
So we're gonna make that decision going forward, so that intelligent decisions based off of the insights we're gonna get from end users. So you can—you start to see that we're gonna shift progressively from a transactions kind of activity to a more as a service type of activity, because we're gonna deliver that reachability with the right quality and the right latency. That's the shift that you're gonna see happening in the industry going forward. And with the mobile platform, we are very well positioned to take advantage of that shift. Certainly the platform is the ability to deliver with the right quality, and that's where BICS direct routes to MNO make a lot of difference. So that's first for the answer to your first question. On the second question on the signaling, so you at BICS, you have, you know, mainly two types of businesses.
You have the person-to-person and voice and messaging business, which is, as we already mentioned, a bit on declining trends, but where we want to be that last man standing, kind of provider, outsourcing those voice platforms and aggregating all the volumes of voice for the mid-sized operators all over the world. That's the play we're gonna follow for voice and P2P. For signaling, here it's a growing market. I think the signaling part of BICS, the mobility services, this is really a nicely growing market. 5% CAGR, I think this is the number that we are sharing with you today, because of travel, travel is back.
We continue to develop for the next three years. Then the migration towards MPN and 5G-powered MPN services will also be something that will create a lot of traction for BICS. So, I think those types of services will be nicely growing, and they already represent 20% of the overall GM of the international activities of the group. And those, you know, those 20% will be growing at 5% CAGR for the next three years. That's really the way we should look at it.
And that's why we also love that BICS business, by the way, because, you know, being the last man in the one industry, it's always good. You create a lot of opportunities when you are in that position. And we are exposed also to growing activities like signaling activities, which is a fast growing activity, 5% a year compared to, you know, growth rates in the telecommunications industry. It's a nice growth rate for the next few years.
We still have a little bit of time, so.