Earnings Call: Q3 2024

Nov 4, 2024

Summary

9M net profit rose 89% YoY to EGP 42.3bn, supported by strong local-currency margins, lending and fees. FY2024 net profit guidance is EGP 55bn-57bn, with ECL changes likely deferred to Q1 2025.

Good afternoon and good morning, everyone. This is Elena Sanchez, and on behalf of EFG Hermes, I would like to welcome you all to CIB's third quarter 2024 earnings call. We have with us from CIB, the following speakers: Hisham El-Eryaan, CEO; Amr El Ganainy, Deputy CEO; Islam Zekry, Group CFO; Omar El-Husseiny, Group Treasurer; Rashwan Hammady, CEO of Retail Banking and Financial Inclusion; Yasmine Hemeda, Head of Investor Relations; and Nelly Zeneiny, Investor Relations Manager. I would like to hand over the call now to Yasmine Hemeda. Yasmine, please go ahead. Good morning and good afternoon, everyone. This is our customary disclosure statement. This call is intended for investors and analysts only. As such, if any media representative has gained access to this call, kindly hang up now. Certain information disclosed during this earnings call consists of forward-looking statements reflecting the current view of the bank with respect to future events and are subject to certain risks, uncertainties, and assumptions. Many factors could cause the actual results, performance, or achievements of the bank to be materially different from any other future results, performance, or achievements that may be expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements, including worldwide economic trends, the economic and political climates of Egypt, the Middle East, and changes in the business strategy, along with various other factors. Should one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize, or should underlying assumptions prove incorrect, actual results may materially vary from those described in such forward-looking statements. The bank undertakes no obligation to republish revised forward-looking statements to reflect changed events or circumstances. That ends the disclaimer statement. I will now hand it over to Mr. Hisham El-Eryaan. Right. Thank you so much you all for joining us today. I have to clear that I am still the non-executive chairman on paper, but I have been working with the team, Islam, Amr El Ganainy, Omar, and Rashwan, and Omar Khan. Just finishing some regulatory papers, should all be done this week. But I thought it is good to come back and meet investors, especially that Yasmine has been doing an outstanding job with the team in managing the investor relation. Now we are adding more flavors, by having the executive management team involved either on the calls or the one-on-one meetings. What I want to say, we are going to go through the details of the numbers and so on, but the most important thing is the build-up behind the numbers. The critical part for us is to really get the teams to work together and leverage on each other's strengths, rather than having some sort of an islands or silos within the institution. That leverage, as a teamwork between the different units, either in the support areas or the front line, have resulted in a better performance, either cost side or on the revenue side. Going forward, we're going to go through a clear business transformation process, and that could easily change the way we conduct business in a better way. My target personally is zero customer complaints, and the highest customer satisfaction, because at the end of the day, by having more happy clients, is practically how this pays our salaries. From there, the entire transformation strategy is being built up how to reach the point where we meet the international standards and exceed the international standards in terms of customer satisfaction. That will yield to all of us, all the stakeholders, either staff, customers, shareholders as well. I will leave the floor to Yasmine and the team, and I'm happy to take any questions if you want. Thank you, boss. Good morning and good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining our earnings call. Once again, we're very pleased to update you on yet another solid quarter. As we mentioned before, this performance is the result of several years of reading the market, setting and applying the appropriate strategy. Over the past few years, we focused on two extremely important aspects to take advantage of the environment. The first aspect is exerting huge efforts to increase the low cost CASA, which now stands at 55% of the total deposit base. The second is maintaining excellent asset quality coupled with the rising interest rate environment. These laid the foundation for the current and ongoing performance, especially in light of a relatively stable macroeconomic environment and our expectation that interest rates on sovereigns will remain elevated until year-end as the yields continue to reflect the twin deficits. As for the policy rates, we don't see them getting cut until inflation starts to come down. Consequently, during Q3, local currency deposits grew by EGP 18.6 billion or 4% over Q2, all of which were CASA. T-bill yields rose by an average of 2% during the third quarter, driven more by an increase in the three and six-month yields at 3.8% and 3.2% respectively, compared to 0.9% and 0.2% for the nine and 12 months. As a result, local currency NIMs for Q3 recorded 12.9%, coming 363 basis points higher year-on-year. Local currency loans grew by 12%, sufficiently counterbalancing net foreign currency loan repayments, which came at 5%. Non-interest income recorded EGP 5.8 billion, coming nine times higher year-on-year, with trade service fees growing by 47% year-on-year. While expenses grew by 41% year-on-year, we posted a record operating income of EGP 71.5 billion, up 82%, giving us a positive jump. Despite taking provisions of around EGP 1.69 billion, which is more than double the provisions accrued in the last quarter, thus representing the main reason behind the 5% quarter-on-quarter drop in bottom line, asset quality remained very solid, with NPLs recording 4.39% and the coverage ratio of 289%. It is worthy to mention that the coverage of the risky performing loans, i.e., loans risk-rated from 2 to 7, remained very comfortable at 14%. This was evidenced in CIB recording a high CAR of 29.1%, which more than accommodates the bank's growth and transformation plans moving forward, as mentioned by Mr. Ezz Al-Arab. With this increase in CAR, we recorded the net profit of EGP 14.8 billion for the quarter and EGP 42.3 billion for the nine months, up 89% year-on-year, resulting in an ROE of 49.4%, further cementing CIB's strong standing in the market. As previously mentioned, this positive trend across all financial indicators is expected to continue throughout the remainder of the year. On that note, I will open the floor, Elena, for Q&A for the management and for us. We are here for you. Thank you. Thank you very much for the presentation. We will move now to the Q&A session. If you have a question, you can write it in the Q&A designated area, or you can also click on the raise hand button and I will unmute your microphone. We have received a question on provisioning. I will read it as received. Given that the bank is over provision, why have provisions increased so much this quarter? Could you also provide some color on the increase in NPLs in Q3? Well, this is Islam Zekry, Elena. Thank you. I will take that question. Basically, I am taking this as a positive sign. When you look at my local currency loan-to-deposit ratio in this quarter, it is reaching a historical amount of 51%, and that is a historical number. When you look at the quarterly performance, the acquisition on the local currency, direct lending and trade finance activities, it is remarkable. We have seen this year a growth on the trade side by almost 56%, 57%. That is why this is a very positive, healthy indicator for the growth in booking and trading activities for the bank for this quarter. When you recast or normalize for the bottom line, the quarterly bottom line, and take the provisions aside, and taking also the tax implications of the provisions, that will show a bottom line growth almost 2%, 3% quarter-over-quarter. But I suggest when you look at the risk indicators in general, to look at them in terms of coverage, in terms of growth, and in line of the direct and trade lending activities growth. When you look at the expected on unexpected losses coverage in CIB, it is almost 13%, 14%. This is the recorded ratio compared to 6.5% to the overall sector, banking sector in Egypt, which shows decent results in my view. Thank you very much. There is another question on operating expenses. Can you comment on the increase in admin costs quarter-on-quarter? This is basically also something you could relate to the growth. When you book loans on your balance sheet, there is a stamp duty and there is a regulatory expense related. So it is derived by business and normal growth on the balance sheet. All right. There is another question that came through the chat. Can you give an update on potential changes to the ECL expected credit loss model? By how much can cost of risk decline going forward as a result of these changes? And what is the expected timing of implementation of these changes? I'll take this one. For the ECL model, we're still in the negotiation phase with the CBE and the auditors. I think we are all in agreement as to the amount of excess provisions, but the point of contention here is how we're going to treat that from an accounting perspective. There are multiple scenarios that are being contemplated, but we have yet to sort of set on one of these scenarios. The fact that we're the only Egyptian bank facing this problem is making the CBE taking their time in sort of deciding what we will do because it will set a precedent for the rest of the Egyptian banking sector. As it stands now, it doesn't seem like the new ECL model will come through in 2024. Most probably or hopefully, we are hoping that this will come through sometime during the first quarter of 2025. In the meantime, our guidance that we've been giving for the full year 2024 still remains the same. The total provisioning charge, both on the direct and contingent, remains between 6.5-7. Moving beyond that, with the new ECL model, definitely the cost of risk and the run rate for the impairment charges will be much less conservative. Honestly, this is not also something to negotiate. There is a specific process according to the accounting standard and the applied GAAPs here in Egypt, and there is a specific process dictated by the central bank, and we are following that path in order to change it. It's a function in your inputs and your outlook view for the macroeconomic situation in Egypt and the region. There is a specific path, there is a specific process we are following, and we are on that path, as just highlighted. Another question on provisions. CIB booked provisions of around EGP 2 billion for Eurobonds in full year 2023. Can we expect a release of these provisions on upgrades of the ratings of the Egyptian sovereign by rating agencies? Well, there is a development and enhancements in our fair value through OCI reserve. If you notice in this quarter till year to date, we are having an amount of EGP 5.6 billion. In this quarter alone, in light of the development, the amount is EGP 3.8. When you look at my return on equity factoring this amount, is 50%. When you normalize for it will go to 45%. So yes, there is an enhancement, there is a development received, and there is an impact on the profitability for sure, and it's part of our ECL calculation model and the staging model we are following. Okay, thanks for that. I read the more questions that came through. What is a sustainable cost to income ratio for the bank? Since a year, more than a year and a half, the bank is following and monitoring our cost to income. The reported one is 16%. The bank is highlighting and also discussing on our board our CAR cost to income, which is at the range of 30%-32% as we speak. Absolutely, given the transformational plan highlighted and already published a couple of months ago, we anticipate some developments over there to cement and support our development plan on the long run, either by enhancing the operational infrastructure, investing more in technology, and invest more on the future banking agenda, which is a critical part of our board discussions all the time. Okay, thanks for that. Another question on the local currency loan to deposit ratio that is now at the record highs. What do you attribute the increased loan demand to? Where are you seeing these loans coming from? Sectors, I think. Basically, there are two dominating sectors when it comes to corporate lending. Basically, industrial sector and service sector, and we are developing our market share over there. There is a share of wallet play strategy have been executed and processed and supervised by our executive management here. I think we are on the right track, and that's reflected on our loan to deposit ratio, which has reached 51%. We have also to highlight that we start focusing on some other emerging segments like the SME lending. We change our operating model in SME lending in general. There is quite focus over there. I think working capital finance is basically a big part of our acquisition strategy when it comes to corporate lending. We've seen a decent growth on the trade line, which is on trade finance business, which is also a good catalyst for the growth on the credit direct lending activities within the bank. What is the optimal NPL coverage ratio and also capital adequacy ratio if macro conditions normalize next year? For the optimal CAR ratio that we would like to maintain, given the exceptional nature of CIB, the fact that we don't have a parent bank or a major shareholder to fall back on in case of need, we always like to run a buffer above the minimum buffer that is required by the CBE. I would say under normalized conditions, we typically would like to run a CAR of somewhere between 18%-20%, whereas in times of distress, you will find the CAR inching beyond 25%, given the vulnerabilities that we have in our capital base and we all saw how quickly these vulnerabilities can eat up from the cushion that we have. I'll have Islam and then the No. Given the expected unexpected loss coverage, I feel completely comfort about the NPL ratios reported here. I am completely fine with that. No comment on that front. Okay, thanks for that. There is another related question on the capital adequacy ratio. Also saying that because of the improving macro situation and the high CAR, is there a scope for the bank to increase dividend payouts? The payout decision in general in a commercial bank is a function of multi-factors, in my view. Yes, the macro indicator is part of those factors we are looking at. The capital adequacy and the optimal levels we are running or we anticipate is a factor, the liquidity ratios we run. Whenever the situation is changing, absolutely the bank is looking at this as a dynamic. Our payout policy is extremely dynamic payout policy. Technically, we look at it given the capital adequacy ratio we are running right now and the outlook, the macro outlook around the Egyptian economy in general. Another question on credit growth, specifically on the local currency credit growth. How do you explain the strong appetite for lending despite the sharp interest rate hikes earlier this year? Is it the loan growth driven largely by client acquisition? Well, because when you run a balance sheet, you run an anticipation of the future looking interest rate environment. I think most of the research house is talking about possible cuts. So the new normality is just creating around the corner right now. Technically, we feel comfort, and it's critically clear when you look at my risk appetite and the balancing act we are running between growing our risk-weighted assets and running the CAR, that will give you an idea about our risk appetite to grow and to grow our portfolio in a very profitable profit zones when it comes to credit lending or trade finance or even expanding in newly emerged business areas. At the end of the day, we feel comfort. We'll keep growing, and even our targets for the coming year, I think, because we're in the middle of a budget discussion right now, is ambitious enough to reflect that. Okay, I'll keep on reading the questions that are coming through. Are there any signs of increasing delinquencies in real estate-related industries, such as building materials and contractors? When you look at sectorial staging reports in our footnotes, there is no pivotal signs over there in those specific segments. Can you talk a bit about the FX interbank market volumes during Q3 and where we are today? Any views on the volatility or lack of volatility of USD/EGP? Sure. I will take that, Yasmeen. Okay. Definitely during the past bit of time since the unification of the foreign exchange, since March, we saw huge. The interbank market volume had been 10 times last year, and that makes sense for the foreign exchange that we had since last year. Up till this moment, we are seeing more supply than the demand in the market. The market is more adapting to the new norm of the FX rate. Interbank volume, to answer the question, has been 10 times last year, and we are seeing the average interbank daily hovering around $100 million-$150 million. That is the normal day. So it peaks up to almost $1 billion-$1.5 billion at times when you see lots of carry trades coming to invest in Egypt. A follow-up question on the strong credit growth in EGP, and high interest rates. The question is, how do you explain that the borrowing or strong credit growth is happening with interest rates that are 30%+? When you look at the financing cost structure of most of our corporate clients, the debt service ratio or the debt service cost is not a huge amount of their cost structure. This is one. Second, on the demand side, there is a huge consumption demand on the sectors we are serving, especially in the industrial sector and the service sector. When you get deep dive in the sub-sectors we are serving over there, I think they are demand and consumption-led. We do not see a negative impact of these high interest rates given that most of the portfolio is working capital finance for the time being. If I might add something to what Islam said, we cater to the top 800 corporates operating across different economic sectors. Most of them are multinationals, and the rest are the big local names, the ones that you see listed on the Egyptian stock exchange. You all get to see and experience firsthand how strong their performances are. We have been seeing signs of resilience from their side, and like Islam said, it is all working capital facilities. Their utilization rates now are nearing the 65% and 70%, and we are expecting that to improve as we move along the year, which in tandem with the cuts that are supposed to start once inflation eases, this should carry us through 2025 as well. Another follow-up question on the dividend payout ratio. Which factors are you looking for that will make you comfortable with a higher payout level? Our dividend payout policy is worked out backwards. Basically, we see the level of growth that we are going to achieve in terms of risk-weighted assets, i.e., the loans. We set a certain level of CAR that we would like to maintain, given the exceptional nature, like I mentioned before, of CIB and the fact that we always need to run above the buffer. Then we look at the profits, and we see how much we need to retain to maintain that level of CAR and cater to that level of growth in the risk-weighted assets, and the rest we divvy out. Historically speaking, our payout ratio ranged between the 5% and 20%. In times of distress, you will see it more skewed towards the 5%, and in normalized conditions, in very strong or relatively stable macroeconomic environment, you will see that inch up from the 5%. Depending on how things continue to develop on the macro scene and on the banks level throughout the remainder of the year, this will dictate the dividend payout ratio for 2024. Okay. Another question on profit target. Will management revise the net profit target for 2024 from the EGP 54 billion, given the strong performance in the nine months? The guidance for the full year 2024 is for bottom line between EGP 55 billion and EGP 57 billion. Another question on confirmation of the guidance you gave on cost of risk, EGP 6.5 billion to EGP 7 billion for the full year 2024. Just a confirmation of that number. Yes, confirmed. It still stands. $6.5-$7 in total impairment charges, both direct and contingent. Okay. All right. Questions on NIMs. Has Group NIM stabilized Q-on-Q? Let me just read the question again. Do you expect NIMs to stabilize for the rest of the year versus Q3? Can you remind us of local currency and foreign currency NIM guidance? Our guidance for local currency versus foreign currency NIM still stands. We are guiding for local currency NIM of 13% for 2024, while the foreign currency NIM, by and large, remain where it is, so between the 3.5, 3.8. The blended should sit comfortably between the 9.5, 10 for the full year 2024. Elena, can you please remind me of the first part of the question? I am sorry. It is not very clear, but the way I understood the question is whether you expect NIMs to be stable for the remainder of the year. I think you should- Versus Q3 a continuation of the same trends that we've been seeing over the past two quarters to continue throughout the remainder of the year. Okay, thanks. Also NIMs, can you elaborate on how NIMs should evolve in 2025? So, it's easy to judge on the future interest rate environment, but what you could get from most of the research is that there are expected cuts for the coming year. As you know, banks is running spreads margins. So technically, when we expect cuts of 700, 800 basis points, we have a range of research houses talking about that. But at the end of the day, we are managing to keep and maintain our NIMs for the coming year. Absolutely, there will be an impact because of the duration gap, the time duration gap. But the bank is aspiring to manage the decent spread strategy for the coming year. And just to add to that, whatever compression that may occur on the NIM side will be more than compensated for by the growth in the fees and commissions that are usually associated with loan growth, and thus feeding very positively into the ROEs. And another comment on the resilience of the balance sheet. That's why we bought the target of increasing the weight of CASA. But we've reached 55, 56% as we speak, and we're increasing that because this is giving us a cushion. Again, it's any developments on the interest rate environments on the decline. All right, thank you very much. We don't have any additional questions. Perhaps we could pause for a minute, a couple of minutes to see if we receive more questions. We just received another follow-up question on NPL coverage and capital adequacy ratio. Do you think that a higher than usual NPL coverage and a higher than usual capital adequacy ratio impose a cap on stock price performance in 2024? Go ahead. We don't expect any changes when it comes to CAR liquidity ratios or even the NPL ratio till end of the year. I'm confirming that. I think the stock performance is undermined by the macro more than anything else. Like we said, we are working on a new ECL model that is less conservative, so this will work the provision side. The CAR, given the uncertainty that still looms, we are going to close the year with a CAR of around 30%. As the situation continues to unfold and the macro scene continues to clear throughout 2025, we'll see what will happen on the CAR side. In terms of the stock performance, I don't think it's undermined by these factors as much as it is undermined by the macro and the lack of interest. Thank you, Yasmin. There is a question asking for confirmation of the daily interbank liquidity in the FX market. Yes, this is confirmed. On an average daily basis, you would see the normal interbank market hovering between $100 million to $100 million. At times, when we saw huge inflows coming in from the carry trade side, it reached $1.5 billion daily, or even when we saw some outflow. Back in August, we saw some outflow. Back in September, we saw an outflow and reached that number. The carry trade right now hovering between around $32 billion, $33 billion. Those where you see a huge spike into interbank market volume. Okay, thank you very much. A question on the loan book. You said that the majority of your loan portfolio is working capital financing. Do you see the mix changing, if there is additional lending demand coming through with lower interest rates? I think for the mix to change and for more CapEx demand or actually CapEx demand to come through, or the conversation even on CapEx to start, you need to see a few things materializing on the ground first. The first of which is the cuts in interest rates. Second, and more importantly, you need the individuals and the corporate to sort of fully adjust to the new price structure of things, and you need to see that reflecting on higher utilization rates. Like I mentioned earlier, on average, utilization rates among our loan portfolio is between 65% to 70%. For CapEx or the conversation on CapEx to start, you need to see that level crossing the 90% mark. And you need to see all of these factors materializing first before we see that translating into CapEx demand. With how everything is unfolding, and like Islam mentioned before, that most of the economists are expecting cuts in interest rates starting the first quarter of 2025. If all factors remain the same and they continue pushing cutting rates and the consumption levels sort of improve, and you see that reflecting positively on higher utilization rates, maybe we should start seeing the beginning of the first wave of CapEx in its very primitive form to come through towards the very tail end of 2025, if not beginning 2026, but not before then. Thank you, Yasmine. Question on provisions. Is the significant increase in loan loss provisions of Q3 related to foreign currency loans? Well, actually, most of the demand, actually 90% of the demand, coming from the local currency loans in Q3. I think the question was about the provisioning costs, if it is linked to foreign currency loans or- The provisions in Q3 is the marginal effect of the growth in lending activities and trade activities in Q3, which is coming the majority in local currency. Okay. Thank you very much. A question on the decline in the foreign currency loan portfolio. Is it a reflection of risk appetite of the bank, or is it due to low credit demand in the market? Well, actually, it was an action of repayments within our portfolio in some specific segments. Any initial guidance for loan growth, deposit growth, and net income for 2025? I think it's too early because we didn't discuss our budget yet with our board. That will take place in December, but we expect very ambitious targets for the coming year. Especially with the transformation. Especially with the enhancements we do on increasing the capacity of the bank, as a service entity, to absorb more valuable segments and more customers to serve within the coming two, three years. That's basically the main targets of our transformational program going forward. All right. No further questions at the moment, so just a small pause, to see if there are any additional questions. A question on provisioning. Is the required ECL of new loans higher than the ECL of previous loans? Do you consider new loans to be more risky than the ones you had before? No, absolutely. We are following the IFRS 9. We don't differentiate. It is an expected credit loss calculation by accounting standard, depends on the future looking and the economic outlook of the customer and the specific rates of the credit rationale of the client itself. So no, the answer is no. Okay, thank you. What are the main features of the transformation program? What? Transformation. The transformational program basically depends on, or targeting three main strategic objectives, enhancing the capacity of the bank to serve more additional customers at more cost-effective manners, and in a way that is profit-inducing. That is one target. The second target is enhancing the capacity for the bank to be a bank on demand. The third target is basically is targeting our key service indicators across all segments and repositioning CIB as a universal bank, serving a wide range of customers from a very small, young individual to a very sophisticated financial institutions, and will announce in our coming investor call. We will invite you to the kitchen to show you exactly what we cook over there. The transformational program will be part of our plan, and that will be announced soon. I promise by the coming earnings call, it will be more focusing on our value drivers, what we expect, what we aspire to have, out of that transformational program as a key value driver for future banking in our view. Has the board given Hesham any difference in mandate versus Hussein, or can we assume continuity? Well, put it that way, the mandate is not only for me. I have to explain one thing. When the board decided to do change, the change was not because of anything, rather than there is a new era, and that era requires different skill sets. I have to admit that at the beginning, when we started to search for a CEO can do transformation, we came across Mr. Tony, that we mentioned his name in our press release, and we came to the point, we sat with Tony. Would he practically focus on the transformation or the day-to-day? The day-to-day, there are two parts there. The admin work, and there is the business as usual. If I start to get Tony engaged on that means that 50% of Tony's time will go into running the business. Already the business is running very well. Amr is doing fantastic job here, and Rashwan and Omar on the front line. On the admin side, Islam is doing an excellent job there. In fact, it's not a secret really, because when we decided to have two executives to help Tony, at the time it was Amr and the three other managers, they have decided that Islam is the proper person that should help Tony. This how we reached the structure. We remained with the question of, should we leave the time for Tony to do the transformation or to be involved on the day-to-day? After discussions, he was happy to focus on the transformation, just do it, finish it as soon as possible. This is the key attraction for the job at CIB. We left who going to be the CEO. There was a discussion there, do you mind to wear a parachute and supervise that team and that process? I said, "Fine." I mean, for me, it's something I know very well. There is nothing new because practically, I would say that business as usual is running on an autopilot. I need to help Islam and Tony on the transformation. That may take some tough decisions someone has to take, need to take certain messages to the staff about the changes because, yeah, really one of the things we are looking at, we are looking at the number of people at the back end and the front end, and the ratio there. The automation and using AI and robotics is not something new. We have used that even in compliance. We are using that in different areas on the bank. Can we spread that out in end-to-end in many of the processes that we have on the bank, and then we're going to save head count that we can recycle to the front end? That's a decision that need to be managed. You need to manage people. You need someone that people trust for a long time, that the change and the move they're going to do in their career is very good for them and for the bank as well. They're going to make better money and more money moving from a repetitive work of signing papers into a more of customer-facing jobs. It was very complicated. The structure is different from just a bank having a CEO. The structure is having a team that make face lifting to the institution to meet the international standards and meanwhile, catch up with the world. I mean, we could have remained with a CEO and fine business as usual, but this not our ambition. Our ambition is to take this bank in a different place, change our even narratives in conducting the business. All of that will come at a later stage when we finish our five years plan. The other part was very important that we have, yes, myself and Amr are helping the bank and everything, but we have three potential candidates that one of them could be the next CEO of the bank after three years. I'm very keen to have the next CEO from inside CIB. The three of them are excellent, outstanding, doing good job. Some grooming during the process of the transformation will show the real mettle of the people, and then the board can select one of them. I hope that I can put five names, not three names, to the board in 2 years' time to select the next CEO. The door is still open for other potential candidates that could join that team for the future. Really, the job I'm doing is not the day-to-day business board, the strategic and preparing the bank for the future. We would like to look at this CIB 10 years from now, where are we going to be? Where do we stand on the ground within the continent and within Egypt or within the surrounding countries? All of that will require a serious change in the way of conducting business that meets the people are afraid from fintechs and technology. That's an opportunity. That's an opportunity really to have a customer reach. The whole thing here is not the traditional CIB you know in conducting business. That will carry on definitely. But there is an extra mile there we can take, and we start to count the numbers based on acquisition. I was talking to Islam yesterday that maybe on the next report of the financials, we'll start to declare how many new customers on certain segments we added, either on the card business and personal loans, payroll, as individuals, wealth customers, not only a bulk number of total deposits or total consumer credit. Same thing with the business banking, how many new customers the bank, which sector we are focusing, what's our market share in certain sectors. This how you build up future earnings, and the same thing with the corporates. Really, the way we're going to present numbers is not just a P&L or just loans or deposits. That's the old school. It will be those numbers, yes, are very critical and important, but as well, what is behind those numbers to reach those conclusions? So that give you a very good idea how in 5 years' time the bank will perform, not only this year and based on the current picture. I hope that explained to you the mandate is much more complicated than normal job. Thank you very much for that. Just a final question I can see here. On a sequential basis, your NIM fell in Q3 versus Q2 2024. Can you explain the drivers? Well, the local currency developed 200, 300 basis points. I think what we are discussing here is basically the foreign currency NIM, which is a natural move, too, because we acquired most of our deposits at the third quarter from time deposits, which placed to match the duration in placings. That was one thing. That also, because the NIM is a function in NII in earning assets mathematically. So our earning assets developed in terms of valuation in relation to the development we have seen in our fair value through OCI investments. So this is basically the two dynamics governing the mathematics behind that foreign currency NIM. All right. I don't see any additional questions on the queue. Therefore, we can conclude the call for today. I would like to thank the management team of CIB for the presentation and all the responses provided today. Also, thank you to all the attendees for joining the call, and I'll hand it over to you, Yasmine, for any closing remarks. Thank you very much, Elena. Thank you everyone for dialing in. We're always here if you have any follow-up questions or if you need any further clarifications. Please send us an email or call us. We are very accessible at any point in time. Thank you very much, and thank you, Elena, for arranging the call. Thank you.