Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I want to thank you for taking the time to attend this meeting where Pierre Candelier, the Group CFO, and myself will present to you the number of last fiscal year, 2023-2024. The Group has operated in adverse market conditions last year. First, we had the geopolitical risks driven by the war in Ukraine and in the Middle East. Then we now have the slowdown in the European economy. In addition to that, our recycling industry is really dependent on two sectors: one is the car industry, and the second one is in the constructions, and as you all know, the car industry is struggling, and the construction is almost frozen. In addition to that, we had high electricity prices. Even if they are lower than the previous year, they still remain at a high level.
The high interest rates, which have impacted, obviously, our financial expenses. The last thing that I wanted to mention: the Group has been victimized last year, last November, by a cyber attack that didn't stop our operations but has had a significant impact on our numbers during almost three to four months. Despite all these adverse market conditions, the Group has been able to generate almost the same EBITDA number than last year: 330 million EUR. It has been able to generate almost 100 million EUR of free cash flow. All this is thanks to our business model, where we monitor margins, tonnage, working capital, CapEx. Also because we have implemented, since now three or four years, the development of niche businesses, which is very profitable.
And in the future slide, Pierre will show you the impact of this segment in our business, how it has evolved over the last years. And also monitoring the level of inventories in our business. And the last thing is the results of Elior that have shown significant improvements, even if the net result is still negative, but the EBITDA number has increased significantly. Now I will leave the floor to Pierre to go through the details of our financial numbers.
Thank you, Abderrahmane. So I will just emphasize on the very good second half year that we had, thanks to all the factors that Abderrahmane explained. Indeed, it is the best half year that we had in the past two years, with revenue close to €1.9 billion, but also in EBITDA €188 million. And we would like to, in order to emphasize on the strategy, which we consider very appropriate, the new sorting lines that we started in the last 18 months, which are listed on the screen, the six of them. We will show you a picture of them later in the presentation. But they brought additional EBITDA amounting to €5 million in the second half year compared to the first half year. I will spend a few minutes detailing the numbers. The revenue is the same as last year: €3.6 billion.
The EBITDA is nearly the same as last year: EUR 330 million compared to EUR 335 million. The EBITDA ratio is exactly the same as last year: 9.2%, and the current EBIT is a bit lower than last year: EUR 173.5 million, but as we have invested, we have more depreciation. Last year, we had a lot of non-recurring positive items, which we do not have this year, but big amounts last year: EUR 50 million on the disposal gain on the Multiservice, EUR 13 million gain on the disposal of eight yards, as the European Commission asked us, and we do not have this item last year, which translates in a lower EBIT, but the current EBIT is more the aggregate to look at. We had additional more finance costs this year due to a full year of high interest rates. Last year, the interest rates were increasing.
This year, they were stable, but at the top of the level, and they have started to decrease in the beginning of this year. We have a lower income tax due to lower pre-tax income. As Abderrahmane El Aoufir explained, last year, Elior Group contributed to EUR 39 million negative result, and this year, negative EUR 20 million. The net income attributable to shareholders is EUR 74.8 million compared to EUR 137 million last year. It's a decrease by 45%. But the cash result is only decreasing by 20%. The board of directors, which took place this morning, proposed to the AGM to pay a EUR 0.30 dividend per share, which is a 28% payout ratio of the net income and a 2.9 dividend yield compared to yesterday's closing price. We will go division by division, first recycling and then public sector services. In the recycling division, the revenue is also stable: EUR 3.4 billion.
The EBITDA is €289 million compared to €307 million, which is a decrease by 5.9%. And the current EBIT is €148.6 million compared to €174. The EBITDA ratio is very close to last year: 8.5% compared to 8.9%. Abderrahmane El Aoufir described in a few words the economic environment in which we operated, which was not very good. Nevertheless, we have a resilient result. The ferrous scrap volumes, they have decreased by 5.7%. The average prices were nearly the same as last year, €2 per tonne lower. The margins were lower for the ferrous scrap because they were negatively impacted by the cyber attack in the winter. And during the rest of the year, the market was also not as good as in the prior year. On the non-ferrous side, the volumes are stable and the margins improve. It is a mix of the results of the strategy.
We have sold products with higher added value incorporated because we went further in the transformation process, and also we benefited a bit from a price increase, which took place during the months from April to June. If we look at the volumes by metals, the trends are a bit different. We have a single-digit increase for copper, brass, which is copper-related, and also lead, for which we had a very good year, and we have single-digit in volumes for aluminum, mainly aluminum ingots due to the automotive industry situation. And the aluminum, which are more dedicated to the building industry, are more stable, and also a single-digit decrease in stainless steel. A few figures about our industry, our company. We delivered last year 4.4 million tons of ferrous scrap, 697 tons of non-ferrous metals.
Incorporated in that number, we have recycled 643,700 tons of end-of-life vehicles, 376,000 tons of WEEE, fridges, and so on. We have produced 73,500 tons of aluminum ingots and 38,000 tons of lead ingots. Just two slides in order to describe the economic environment in which we operated. Of course, we are correlated to the general industry because we sell to steel mills and smelters, and we buy also waste from the industry. So you see that over the years, the trend is rather negative. One factor to mention, which impacts only the ferrous scrap market, is the importance of the Chinese steel export semi-products. You see that since July 2022, the Chinese semi-product steel exports have increased significantly due to the electricity price in Europe. Chinese did not have this increase, and they produce lower semi-products, which they export to Europe and also to Turkey.
It's not very good for our customers, so it also impacted our sales. What is important, and we will spend a few minutes on that, is the decarbonization of the steel industry. You know that the traditional way of manufacturing steel, which is the blast furnace, is very detrimental to the environment because it contributes to roughly 5% of the greenhouse gas emissions. In addition to that, they receive, for the time being, free quota emissions that they will have to buy in a few years. So they have to find a solution, and they are trying to move either to direct reduced iron through hydrogen or to move to EAF.
EAF, I would say, it's already a mature industry, which is lower intensive in CapEx, more flexible than the blast furnace because you can switch off your steel mills during the weekend, which is not possible for the blast furnace. And if you want to replace your blast furnace with a DRI through hydrogen, it's huge CapEx. And I must admit that two or three years ago, there were plenty of that type of projects, and most of them, except one or two, are on hold for the time being due to the difficult market conditions for the steel makers.
That's the reason why that we believe that I would say that our sometimes people consider low-tech EAF has a lot of future because it's already mature, and the production cost in the future of that steel mill is already known, and it will be lower than the DRI steel mill. Just a few words on the prices. On the upper left part of the page, you have the ferrous scrap E40, which is the ferrous scrap which comes out from our shredders. You see that, of course, the price has changed every month, but on average, they were stable during the year. On the other graph, it's non-ferrous metals. I just would like to emphasize on the increase in all the metals in the spring, and of which we have benefited. But at the end of the year, the prices were lower.
It's the first year in the history of the group that the non-ferrous metals are so high in the percentage of our revenue. It's not the first year that they are higher than ferrous scrap, but to such extent, it's the first year. Why? We had a small decrease in volumes, and I would say no price effect on ferrous scrap. And we have no volume effect on the non-ferrous metals, and we have a positive effect on the price, which means that now we have EUR 1.5 billion in ferrous scrap, EUR 1.7 billion in non-ferrous metals, where unit margins are generally higher, and service is a bit decreasing. The bridge of our EBITDA in the recycling division. Last year, we had EUR 306.6 million EBITDA.
We sold in January 2023 eight yards, which contributed to EUR 2.7 million EBITDA in the beginning of the prior year, which we did not have this year. We have a decrease by EUR 43.1 million of our gross margin plus service revenue. So, as we said before, it's more than that for ferrous scrap, and it's partly offset by increase in margin in non-ferrous metals. For confidentiality reasons, I answer directly to that question. We do not communicate on unit margin on each segment. And we have a decrease by EUR 12 million in staff cost. We have, of course, savings, but we have also less variable pay. And also, I would like to emphasize on the impact of electricity saving, EUR 10 million due to the lower prices that we determined at the end of 2023.
We also have savings on all consumables and maintenance cost, which is more related to the volumes in the ferrous scrap. If we look by country, we have the same impact. The revenues in France: minus €2.7 million. We have a decrease for light scope in France, which is €12 million. Spain is very profitable in our group, and it once again improved its profitability by €8 million. We had a difficult year in the USA, which is €8 million lower compared to prior year. The other countries, it's not so significant. If there is only one slide to remind or to keep in memory after this presentation, I would say it is this one. Abderrahmane El Aoufir, since he is CEO, he has tried to develop niche business in order to be different from our competitors, also to leverage on our network.
Every month, we buy on our 285 yards plenty of different quantities, and that we do not buy at the top of the price because we buy them among different quantities. And we leverage this network to create a dedicated sorting line on which we concentrate all the qualities that we want to sort on that line. And a competitor, if he does not have the network and he wants to buy the same line, he has to buy at the top of the price the inbound quantities. So what we classify as niche business, it's a heavy media plant. It's refining aluminum, refining lead, WEEE, cable shredders. Also in the Paris area, additional waste that we take in order to render service to the people. We bring also ferrous and non-ferrous metal to us, and so on. There is a number of areas.
We wanted that in the past to have in the region of 25% of the revenue and 25% of the EBITDA. This year, we have by far exceeded that percentage. You see that on the red part, which is, I would say, the traditional ferrous and non-ferrous metal, just shear shredder and also sorting non-ferrous metal, but not with a lot of industrial process, which is what a lot of our competitors do. Our result would have been a lot lower by a large amount. Now, 36% of our EBITDA is in the niche business, which are more resilient. If you look at the lower part of the presentation, also more profitable. Of course, we can also question how we allocate head office costs and so on, but they are more profitable. A few pictures of what we have invested in the past 24 months.
These pictures, we do not classify this one as a niche business. It's our Saint-Pierre-de-Chandieu shredder. It's close to Lyon. And we already had a shredder there, which was 30 or 40 years old. And we have completely refurbished and built a new one. And if you look on the upper part of the left pictures, we have a specific sorting line, which we did not have before in order to prepare additional material, which either can be sold directly, which are not ferrous scrap, or that we can sell to some other yards of our group. So it's a very powerful shredder, and we are now equipped for the next 40 years with this tool. The other picture, it's more niche business. Now we sort and we treat fine fractions in Bernes-sur-Oise, which is close to Paris.
Before we had this sorting line, we put in landfill these materials, and now we are able to find 12% metals and very expensive metals in this facility. And when you implement such a facility, you don't operate it at 100% in the first month. You have to make adjustments to the machines, and indeed, it took us nearly one year to have a good yield and very profitable result on that line. On the right bottom part, it's a new sorting line in Coulommiers. It's a tool which we did not have in the group, where we shred aluminum and we sort it with optical sorting and also metallurgical sorting. And we are able to sell that to people who manufacture green aluminum thanks to the product that we sort and process. We invest in France, but we also invest in other countries.
So on the left part of the picture, it's a new heavy media sorting line that we have in Spain. I would say dry heavy media sorting line, not with floating. And now it's really a progress which was made in the last 10 years, but in particular in the past five years, all the sorting lines and metallurgical lines. There is a lot of, I would say, AI inside and software also, and we benefit from that. A new fridge treatment, the WEEE, is a very important segment for us. We invest a lot in that in Bonneuil-sur-Marne. And in the next months, we will start a new baler line in the same plant. I will finish for the picture part with the cable shredder in Ecopont that some of you may have visited.
And also, it's the second one that we have in the group, and we will build new ones because copper is a very metal which has visibility on the future of that metal due to the electrification. Even if we have some doubts on the rhythm for the automotive industry. But the electrification of all the devices, we are very confident in that, and we will buy additional sorting tables in the coming months and years. The public sector service is the best year ever. You will see a few figures. We have only a positive impact. It's difficult to find a negative impact this year. Of course, we have decided not to continue in the Marseille contract, so we have less revenue, but you will see that it impacts positively the result. We have started a new contract in La Réunion, new contracts in Canada.
We have extended our revenue in all the regions where we operate, which translates into an increase in revenue by 5%. And we also have an increase in EBITDA by 30%. And now the EBIT, which is for that activity, it's really the aggregate to look at. We have a double-digit operating EBITDA, which is, I think, best in class in industry in France. How do we have this increase in EBITDA? So the Marseille contract was loss-making at the end, so we stopped and we do not have losses anymore. The new contracts in La Réunion and in Canada are very profitable, and we benefit from that. And also, for the additional revenue that we have in the other regions, they bring additional EBITDA. We are very happy with the 20% EBITDA margin in that industry.
And we looked at negative effects in the EBITDA, but we did not have. On the holding segment, nothing to say except that we had last year non-recurring cost, which were classified in recurring due to the preparation of the contribution of the Multiservice business to Elior, which we do not have this year. On Elior, we will be very fast because they have already communicated on their results, which are improving significantly. They have improved by EUR 200 million their EBIT in two years, which is very impressive. They still have a negative impact because they have non-recurring cost by EUR 30 million, as they have a deferred tax income issue, which impacts their net income. So, unfortunately for us, the only line that we have in our accounts is the last bottom line of the P&L.
And we have also 48% of EUR 41 million, which is -EUR 20 million, which impacts the equity consolidated method line of our P&L. So we had nearly EUR 100 million free cash flow, EUR 330 million EBITDA, which we used at 57% in order to invest in the industrial tool. We manage well, I think, this year the working capital requirement, which brings additional cash by EUR 30 million. We paid EUR 25 million dividends, EUR 45 million finance cost, and EUR 27 million income tax. We already spoke about that. So we're happy with that because we have a lower the balance between CapEx and EBITDA is satisfactory this year. Of course, we meet our financial covenants. I would say that as a financial director, I have one personal satisfaction in this closing, is that now our equity exceeds EUR 1 billion. It's the first time in the history of the group.
For the rest, there is no specific additional item to point at. We have a very good liquidity headroom over EUR 500 million. We do not draw on our RCF, and we do not draw on our overdraft because we have cash on our balance sheet. And also, we have good visibility on all our financing lines. A few words on our CapEx. As I said before, we reinvested 50% of our EBITDA in the CapEx, EUR 30 million in public sector service. We had new contracts, and we had to invest in order to start the contract. EUR 156 million in the recycling business. How are they made, this EUR 156 million? We invested EUR 25 million in our shredders, a part in order to finish the Lyon shredder, of which you saw the picture, but also the part which are more maintenance CapEx on other shredders.
On our shears, we invested EUR 15 million. We invested in four new shears, but also we have to maintain the over 100 shears that we have in the group. We invested EUR 13 million in the WEEE, mainly development CapEx, in order to prepare a new baler line. We invested EUR 18 million in post-shredding technologies and refining technologies. It's a balance of maintenance and development shredders. We invested, I would say, EUR 37 million in cranes, loader, forklift, and trucks. It's maintenance CapEx. We have to replace every 10 years our tools. We developed new yards, which we opened EUR 9 million. We had EUR 16 million, and I would say more than that, which are regulatory CapEx, where each year we have to invest in concrete and other technology, and also fire preventing, water treatment, dust prevention, and so on. A few words on our return on capital.
You can see it through different eyes, from the accounting view, from the market cap view, and from Elior adjusted view. So how do we compute that? It's EBIT after tax. I know that some people, they compute it pre-tax. We compute it after tax, divided by equity, net debt plus provision. So we are around between 7%-8% from accounting and market cap. But for the time being, we have nearly EUR 307 million assets on our balance sheet, which for the time being do not bring anything from the EBIT line in our group. And if we adjust for that, we are over 10% ROCE, which is, I would say, what we want to have on a long-term basis.
We have, for, I would say, the equity investor, we have done a part of job that you usually do, which is, so we have an enterprise value, which is EUR 1.4 billion, which is a market cap at the end of November, plus our net debt. We have the value of Elior based on the market cap of Elior, which means that the enterprise value that we have for recycling plus public sector activities is just EUR 1.1 billion. I did not want to say just, but it's beyond my control. And if we divide that by our EBITDA, it's 3.4 times. I will hand over to Abderrahmane El Aoufir, who will speak to you about the outlook for the year, which started on October 1st.
Thank you, Pierre. Our outlook for the long term, we are pretty confident about the changes that the steel industry will make.
A lot of projects to switch blast furnaces into electric arc furnaces. And this will require a lot of scrap metal. The demand will be higher. We are all aware that, I mean, given the current economic situation, a lot of projects are frozen for the time being, but at least in Q2, I mean, the first one will start in the end of 2026. It will be in Sweden. It's the company SSAB. The second one in Germany, it's Saarstahl. They are in Germany on the border with Lorraine, and this will start in 2029. And the works have already started. And in addition to that, for example, in the copper, there is a lot of demand, and we are also trying to keep the added value within the group. For example, the compressors coming from the fridges, we shred them, and there is only 10% of copper there.
And we will shred them, put them in the chopper to get the copper there. So our objective is to go after all what is strategic metal. And as you may probably know, that Nexans, one of the cable producers in France, is opening a smelter in the north of France in Lens. And they will consume about 80,000 tons of mixed copper starting 2027. So this is obviously help us, and it will generate to create demand for copper. The same thing for aluminum. The aluminum, a lot of consumers now, they want what we call green billets. And they ask the people like Hydro Aluminum to introduce some recycled aluminum in their production. And this is what they are doing. So the demand of aluminum is quite good, and it will be even better in the future. And we have a project also in lead, the production.
We have a significant market share in France and in Spain in lead. We have two breakers, one in France and one in Spain. And we have a refinery in Spain. And we have a project to invest in a refinery also in Normandy. It will be, if we have the permits, it will be state-of-the-art of technology. And this will allow us also to integrate the added value within the group. For the short term, if the market conditions remain as they are, I mean, they are not good, but if they are, okay, we think that we are going to benefit from a low electricity price. We think also that the ramp-up of all the sorting lines and the ones that we will start this year, for example, in Bonneuil, there is a fridge plant that is quite new and a boiler plant that will start in January.
The ramp-up of these lines will help us also to generate some EBITDA. We will have also the interest rate that will go down, I mean, according to our forecast, that, I mean, will reduce the financial costs. We hope, I mean, with all the protection measures that we have implemented in the group to protect our system that we wouldn't be a victim another time of the cyber attack. We have spent a lot of money in this area. We are doing tests to see if people can intrude our system or not. For the time being, we are pretty confident that this wouldn't happen. You never know. Given all what I have mentioned, we are expecting an EBITDA at least of 350 million EUR for next year.
And obviously, as soon as the situation of the markets improves, this number will go up. I want to mention, in addition to the last slide that Pierre has presented, that our group, since four years, is 2020. We have bought number one in Spain, Lyrsa. One year later, we have bought number two in France in the recycling, GDE. Two years ago, we have bought a significant stake in Elior. So the financial structure of the group is still very strong. And we are respecting all our covenants. So just to confirm that the business model that we have is very strong and resilient.
And I think now we can leave time room for any questions. Please feel free if there is any question.
Good evening, Arnaud Palliez, CIC Market Solutions. I have three questions. The first one is on the future of electricity prices.
As you know, the regulation is going to evolve in France with the end of ARENH. And in this context, do you plan to sign some mid-term contract with an electricity supplier? It's the first question. The second one is about the niche businesses. If I'm right, you mentioned a target of 25% of the total revenue. This target is now outpaced. So do you intend to put in place a new target and to have more ambition on these niche markets? And the last question is about the fact that the steel makers are postponing their CapEx. So in this context, for you, is it going to have some impact on your own CapEx, on your own capacity? The important investment you made last year in capacities, are they going to get the expected return, or are you concerned about these delays that are being implemented by steel makers?
Okay. If I'm checking out the energy price, I mean, we have a contract with a power company, which we try to hedge every month almost 10% of our consumption. What we are seeing now, that's, I mean, the prices are lower and lower than the previous years. This is due to different reasons: the start of the new nuclear plant in Flamanville. Also, we had a very rainy season last year and this year. So all the hydraulic sources of power have been implemented. And the last thing is that we don't have any problem importing gas. And as you know, this year, France has exported electricity to different countries in Europe. So this is, for us, a good thing. And we have already covered, I would say, 30%-40% of 2026 of our energy, of our electricity for France, I'm speaking. Niche businesses.
We have already, I mean, for the time, we have at least four other projects to come. We are implementing cable shredder in Madrid that will start according to our provisions in May, June. We have two vehicle treatment facilities, one in the east of France that will start in September, and the other one in Lyon region that will start in December 2025. We have another cable shredder machine that will go to Saint-Marcel, which is in north of Lyon, and we are, obviously, as soon as there is an opportunity, we invest to have the return, and the other project, the last one, is the fine fractions. We have a project in Marseille, in Marignane, to treat the fines because the first one has been very successful for us, and we have this project for Marseille.
About the slowdown in the switch from blast furnace to electric furnace, I would say that our problem in the industry is not to sell. I mean, we have always been able to sell. There is no problem. The problem for us is in the purchase side, and it's on the volume. We have always been able to sell domestically or internationally overseas. So I don't see any impact because the projects are delayed. I don't see any impact.
Hi, John Thomas from TP ICAP Midcap. I have three questions, if I may. The first one is about H2. So could you please explain to us what happened? Because in June, you published a warning saying that you couldn't make up the loss of the first half of the year. So it seems that in three months' time, a lot of things, positive ones, happened.
If I look from a market perspective, it seems that your main market, you are provided with waste, the construction, automotive just kept decreasing. So what happened in your own performance? The second one is about your niche business. Are these businesses really accretive? Because it seems that this business requires from you new facilities, new dedicated facilities, a bit longer inventory cycles so that you can make a kind of arbitrage between the cycles among your commodities. The third one would be about your target for 2025. Because if I look only on your cyber attack impact plus the energy costs, you have already a EUR 20 million bump in EBITDA. So it's already the EUR 350 million. So it seems that you are cautious, obviously, given what happened this year. It's really reasonable. We said at least 350. Very clear. Thank you. Okay.
We showed our half-year number in May, not in June. But as I said before, we had a significant ramp-up effect in our new sorting lines, which some of them were loss-making in H1 and profit-making in H2. Also, there was a non-ferrous metal price increase, which took place from April to June or July, which we did not have in our accounts when we issued our half-year forecast. That's for that. You say that we have end markets which are not in a very good situation, like housing. It's true that the housing market; it's not performing for the time being. But also, we do not sell all our products on the domestic market. We have a broad customer base, and we sell also to export markets. And some of them were better performing in H2.
And it's also the strength of the group to be able to choose when it wants to sell on the domestic or more on the export markets, depending on the situation. On the niche business, if they are ROI accretive or not, I would say that it depends, but indeed, the ROI is difficult to calculate on the single project because at the beginning, you have a big net value in your book of the line. It's more easy to calculate on the group as a whole because it's a mix of, so I would say it's a more payback than ROI. We have some niche business which have a very quick payback, and some of them which have a longer payback, but they are strategic. And so we will not go into more details for confidentiality reasons.
But some of them have a very quick payback, and some of them it's longer. On our target, you know that the industry in Europe for the time being, I would say it's more on a sliding. It's more sliding. And that's the reason why, of course, your calculation is right. But we do not have a contract in our business. It's 70 years that we do not have more visibility than one or two months. That's the reason why we have to be you can consider conservative or realistic in our forecast. Of course, if the market, the general economic situation improves, our result will be better. But we have to make with the current economic situation our assumptions.
Good evening. Regarding the debt profile of the company, so you mentioned for next year, so some improvement in the EBITDA and CapEx target.
So free cash flow probably should be significant as well. But what could you say, perhaps regarding on the M&A side? The economic situation is still deteriorated. Would it make sense for you to perhaps be a bit more active on this side? You mentioned that you integrated some companies and with a nice improvement on their margin profitability. What can you say?
What I can say for the time being, I mean, on our desk, we have a lot of projects. I mean, there are a lot of offers. I think that some companies are struggling, and they want to sell. Some companies, they think that it's the best time to sell their business. We are studying projects. It's like we are sowing. Not everything grows. Okay. We'll see. We are definitely looking at opportunities.
We think that we are still a market consolidator, and we will continue this way. But we need opportunities, and we are not crazy. We are not going to pay crazy prices for businesses that don't make sense. But yeah, we are definitely pursuing opportunities.
Thank you.
We have one question from the remote, from the people which are remote, about the public sector service. If we are confident with the revenue and the profitability for next year, and do we see any potential growth for this activity?
I think that if this activity has good results, it's because it's very selective in the tenders and the contracts that are taken. So there will be growth. But I would say they do not want to have the top line very high, but they focus more, I would say, as in the recycling, more on the bottom line.
The counterpart of that is that the growth will be, I would say, moderate. And as it is a contract business, we have good visibility on the revenue and the profitability of the contract. And we are confident that we can slightly increase, which is what we have written, the revenue and the profitability of that activity next year, but not to the same extent that we did this year.
There's another question from Auguste Deryckx. If I understand correctly, the financial year 2025 EBITDA guidance is based on current market conditions. So rather a bearish view, should we conclude that an upward revision of the guidance is to be expected once you have more visibility? As we said before, if the market conditions improve, definitely our EBITDA will improve. But I mean, our forecast is based on the current market conditions. Is there still any question?
I can finish. Thank you very much for your time. Okay. And if people want to exchange afterwards around a drink, we will be available to answer your questions. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.