Hello, and welcome to the Eurofins Scientific Trading Update. For the first part of this call, all participants will be in the listen only mode, and afterwards there will be a question and answer session. During this call, Eurofins management may make forward-looking statements, including, but not limited to statements with respect to outlook and the related functions. Management will also discuss alternative performance measures such as organic growth, adjusted EBITDA, and free cash flow to the firm, which are defined in footnotes of our press releases. Actual results may differ materially from objectives discussed. Risks and uncertainties that may affect Eurofins future results include, but are not limited to, those described in the risk factor section of the Eurofins annual report. Please also read the disclaimer on page two of this presentation, subject to which this call and Q&A session are made.
Today, I'm pleased to present Dr Gilles Martin, Eurofins' CEO. Please begin.
Thank you. Hello everybody, and thank you for joining our impromptu call. We normally don't announce intermediate results, but in view of all the uncertainty caused by the pandemic and the fact that when we presented the Q3 results, we had not updated the objective for this year, we decided that it was our duty to update the market. The consensus was very broad for this year. We thought, okay, since we now have two more months of actual data, let's try to clarify what the objectives could be. What we published this morning, first of all, were rounded numbers. We have rounded numbers up to the closest EUR 100 million. Obviously it's not a precise objective, it's not a guidance.
I think it gives you an indication of where we think the company is headed towards and what could be achieved or with a high level of certainty could be achieved this year. That should help you all to maybe count in the numbers. If you look at the ratios of the different numbers and so on, the actual ratios might differ a bit because of the rounding that we have done in presenting those numbers. Overall, what the main message is actually that our core business has recovered as a whole. Obviously, there are differences. We still have some activities which are affected by the lockdowns, but this is more than compensated by significantly higher growth in other areas.
I think that underlines very well that this objective of organic growth of 5% that Eurofins has set almost 10 years ago now at the exit of the big world financial crisis, is a conservative objective. Even with several of our businesses still affected by lockdown, we are definitely not firing by all cylinders, we still can achieve 5% organic growth. That's a good news, that in spite of some disruption, our business is a high growth business. On top of that, as you've seen yesterday, we continue to develop a lot of tools to support health authorities and fight the COVID pandemic. The two that we announced yesterday are very interesting. At least one, which is the ability of people to sample themselves.
One of the biggest bottleneck to testing has been laboratory capacity, but it has been also in many countries, the teams to basically put the nasopharyngeal swabs in people noses and get the samples. Now we have validated a number of other modalities where people can do that themselves highly reliably and still access a very reliable PCR test, a very sensitive PCR test. We think this can go a long way, if it is used, of course, to making tests more accessible and helping authorities control the pandemic. This is typically something that people could have at home, and if they think the next day or the day after they want to visit their family, they can test themselves, put it in the post or in UPS or a dropbox, drop it at a lab, and get the result extremely quickly.
We're also working to make our labs provide this very fast PCR, very sensitive PCR, in under six hours. This can be done, and we have different modalities where we can organize those laboratories for governments or big clients. Altogether, we are really proud and happy that we are doing our share to try to combat this pandemic. Another important aspect will be the vaccine. We've just talked about the rollout of the vaccine, and there's very little experience about that. In many geographies, governments are talking to us about monitoring of the status of patients prior to the vaccine. For example, do they have an active infection, for example, which would mean they would get a double source of immune reaction?
Or post vaccination, how much antibodies do they have, or maybe do they have antibodies caused by the vaccine, or is it antibodies caused by prior infection? There are a number of things we are working on that are very interesting. There are different sources of immunity, not only antibodies, it can be T cell mediated immunity. We're still working on a lot of very interesting aspects that we will try to provide to the health authorities and vaccine providers to support them in this initiative of vaccinating potentially multiple times the whole population for a number of years. On Safer at Work, the demand continues to grow. The large number of testing linked to Safer at Work will rise when the lockdowns end. In Europe at the moment, a lot of people are still working from home. There is very little travel.
There is very little entertainment, hospitality, all those sectors, events are pretty much shut down. If they want to restart, even with partial population vaccination, several measures will have to be taken, and we are getting ready to participate to that. That could also last a number of years or quarter. That's a bit the situation. We're happy that, thanks to all those efforts, we have more than compensated the impact on lockdown on the company, and that occurred in quarter two, which were the strongest in quarter two. Overall, we're quite bullish about our industry. Those of you that follow the funding of biotech and pharma see that that continues to increase. There will be a lot of investments. We are really at the beginning of a new era.
If those vaccines, those mRNA vaccines, turn out to be effective and have no long-term side effects, that opens the door to a lot of applications for mRNA, just to cite this example, in oncology, for example, and potentially for rare disease, other aspects. A lot of research will be done, and I think a lot of companies will be funded, and will do research and work with our laboratories to develop fantastic new pharmaceutical products in decades to come. Food testing, obviously, probably there'll be more testing for viruses. In the environment, new possibilities to monitor the environment for various viruses, including COVID, will probably be there for a while. That's a bit of an update of the situation, and I think we'll be happy to take some questions.
Thank you. If you do wish to ask a question, please press zero one on your telephone keypad. If you wish to withdraw your question, you may do so by pressing zero two to cancel. Our first question comes from the line of Neil Tyler from Redburn. Please go ahead.
Yes. Thank you. Good afternoon. Two questions, please, Gilles. Firstly, the updated guidance, or really the development since the Q3 update, can you share with us whether it has been perhaps better momentum in the core business or sustained strength in the COVID-related aspects that has been the greater contributor to your decision to raise guidance? Then the second question, understanding that these are rounded numbers, but the difference between the increase in EBITDA guidance and the increase in free cash flow guidance, that EUR 100 million, do we assume that that's the additional CapEx that's being required, or is there also some working capital build to net off against that?
Yeah. Thank you very much, Neil. One thing also I should have mentioned in introduction is we hadn't changed our objective since March of this year, early March. Those objectives were made without any impact of COVID on anything. They were made assuming the year would be fine. China took a hit in March or in February, not so much. Therefore, it was more like business as usual. A lot of things happened during the year, and we didn't update those objectives during the year because simply there was not enough visibility to know. We knew we would compensate, or it was very likely we would compensate the missed revenues during the year with additional testing revenues. Where and how much was not clear also.
The main reason for this update is the certainty, because now with two months of the last quarter behind us, we have, of course, certainty about the past and some visibility about December to be able to update investors. If we compare to Q3, why did we not change the objective in Q3? Well, because of the uncertainty that remained on both our core business and COVID. I think we have had a good surprise on both, compared to the end of September. Our core business recovered faster than we thought, which was a significant difference in growth between 5% and where we were in Q3, or even at the exit of Q3. We did a bit more COVID testing also in October, November, that potentially we thought then.
Yeah, the difference between EBITDA and free cash flow, again, those are rounded numbers, and we don't know exactly how the cutoffs will fall at the end of the year. One element is we have a lot of stock for COVID testing, and this stock is, of course, consuming net working capital. We feel it is our duty to take some risk on the stock so we are able to respond if there is another big peak of COVID in February or March during the winter. Before the winter is over, we need to have enough stock, so this is an element. Of course, we did quite a bit of CapEx for COVID that we will write off over the duration of the pandemic.
That is also accounted for in the plans that we have for free cash flow. The good thing is all the CapEx for COVID will have been paid in 2020, so it won't affect 2021. It's a bit of a net free cash flow. Here again, there are still some element of uncertainty on how fast we will be paid at the end of the year and what level of stocks we will have exactly at the end of December.
Okay. That's great. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Tom Musson from Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks. Good afternoon to you, and thanks for taking the questions. First one is just a point of clarification, I guess. In Q2, and to an extent in Q3, you very helpfully gave us a bit more quantified numbers around the COVID revenue. I wonder, seeing as you have the numbers for October and November, you can tell us maybe what the COVID-19 testing and reagent revenue contribution was. Also an update please, on the margin that you're making on that work, because I think in the past, you talked about 30% or so. It seems like the implication from the numbers might be that's even a little bit higher now still. I don't know whether that's due to anything, any action you've taken on the cost base or anything in that regard.
The second question I had is on the antigen test that you have sort of released an update to the time yesterday. Just curious as to your sort of updated view on the role of these rapid lateral flow tests. I mean, there's been a fair share of doubt raised over their sensitivity, some of these tests missing quite a lot of infections. There was quite a damning article in The Lancet just yesterday. I think you yourself had expressed some skepticism in the past. Sort of how you see the use case of these tests, your capacity to produce them, if you can, because I know guys like Roche have got quite big capacity to produce sort of quite sizable monthly numbers on these antigen tests.
I know you've only just launched them, but sort of whether you have any sort of initial interest from sort of any large orders you might have already secured or be in discussions of for those tests would also be helpful, if you have any color, please.
Thank you very much, Tom. It's a lot of very interesting questions. The COVID, we've not quantified. What you can assume is in Q4, we probably will be above €100 million revenues per month from COVID on each of those three months on average. How much more we'll know at the end of December. It's really hard to know what governments will do for Christmas, whether they will stop COVID testing, whether they will push people to test, what they should do. That gives you an order of magnitude. The margin. The margin depends on the volume, of course. The more we do, the higher the volume. If we do high volumes, the margin can be above 30%.
On that level, though, we might not be able to quantify the margin properly because we reuse staff that was doing other things to do COVID testing. They are either doing other tests. We have an issue of how much of our fixed overhead do we allocate to COVID and not to COVID. There are a number of hypotheses that could be made to calculating the COVID margin, which we have not done so far. If we continue at that rate, probably the COVID contribution would be higher than 30%, especially where we can use our own reagents, and we don't have too much shipping and other things. As to the antigen test, it's also a very good question. Our view is still, if you have no other option, it's a good test. It will take the highest viral concentration, so it's much better than doing nothing.
It takes time to do, and it has to be done properly, otherwise the result could be wrong. If you have the possibility to do PCR, it's always better to do PCR. Our view is that in most situations it is possible to organize to have enough PCR capacity now. The companies producing PCR kits can produce enough. There are enough systems. Eurofins has always had, through the pandemic, extra capacity somewhere. Let's say France was full, we could ship our samples to Germany or vice versa. I think it is possible to have enough capacity. I think going forward, ideally, there would be more modalities to sample people, like the one we just announced yesterday, where people can sample themselves, or even if it's under supervision of a doctor, it is done by using simpler modalities.
We have enough labs now, more than 50 labs, and there are enough labs around the world that the samples can be brought very fast to the labs. We are working on modalities to make PCR even faster on a standard PCR, so that for most use cases, PCR could be used. Now, of course, the governments will continue to use antigen tests, and those antigen tests bring a lot in some use cases, maybe like events or mass screening. If the only reason to use it is to say, "Okay, we would do nothing, but we antigen test 1 million people, and we have no other way to test 1 million people than antigen test," it's still better to do it. It will catch some positive that are asymptomatic.
When we do our test campaign, we do find a lot of asymptomatic people who would otherwise infect other people. If the same government has access to PCR, it is probably better to do PCR because it will catch many more positives. More importantly, it will not give a sense of being not contaminated to people who will then go on and visit all their relatives while they are asymptomatic at a low level, and a few hours later, maybe at a higher level. We cannot control what the demand will be, and therefore, we have also developed this antigen. We can also run to millions of tests per month. Now, we don't have the largest distribution channels. I don't think we will be the largest or even a large supplier of antigen tests. Why we need it is also for our own programs.
Because as part of Safer at Work, we provide complete turnkey solutions to our clients. Let's say they are running an airport, we have different types of PCR tests. We send samples, kits at home for people to pre-test themselves. We have a lab in a container at the airport where we can carry out tests within six hours, where people can come the day before and get tested, or in the morning. We have fast PCR that can be done in an hour. In some countries, the government is happy to accept only an antigen test. We just then do an antigen test if that is required. The fact that we have our own supply chain is very important. One, because then we are not dependent on supply chain problems at other suppliers. Also, we can provide global uniformity.
If we have some global clients, it's good because we can then get them to approve our test, and then we can use our test for people flying into their country from anywhere in the world. They can audit it, they can test it in their country. The fact that we have our supply chain on all the test modalities, we think is a strategic advantage in this fight against COVID, which might be with us for a few years. If you look at how many people want to be vaccinated in France, for example, it's less than half of the population. Unless this population mentality changes drastically, there won't be enough vaccination for herd immunity. Therefore, testing might still be required.
For certain circumstances, it doesn't matter, but there will be environments where people don't want to catch COVID or shouldn't catch COVID, and testing should continue. That's why we keep on refining our offering to provide safe environments for those of our clients who want it, be they government, be they airlines, be they other types of organization, events. Some want to be quite thorough in what they will do. It's part of an arsenal of tools that can be implemented.
That's helpful. Thanks very much.
The next question comes from the line of Andy Glover from Credit Suisse. Please go ahead.
Are you on mute, Andy? Operator, can you check what's going on, please?
Andy, please go ahead.
Hello. Gilles, can you hear me now?
Now it's good.
Okay. Sorry about that. Yes. Thanks for taking my questions. I've got lots, but I'll just ask two, if I may. You talked about improvements within the core business and return to about 5% organic. Can you just talk through which segments of that are doing relatively well or relatively better? What's improved through the last couple of months? Secondly, on COVID testing, large pharma is talking about the expectation that there'll be a consolidation of PCR tests to those with very large automated throughput machines to three or four suppliers over a period of time. Do you think that's likely? If so, where does that leave Eurofins within the PCR testing world for COVID?
Thank you. Well, the segments, a lot of our businesses recovered. The change compared to Q3, I think, was more notable in food testing and environmental testing in Europe. Our clinical testing business also seems to have recovered well. We still have some areas of softness in environmental testing in North America, at least in the last couple of months. We still have our central lab, which has patient recruitment issues for clinical studies. The areas where we use volunteers and our food service testing and audit and hygiene audit business are still a bit challenged. That gives you a bit of color on the spread. Our biopharma business is doing very well, not only with COVID programs. Generally, biopharma is very active. COVID testing consolidation, I'm not sure. I think it's already done.
The large suppliers of automated machine, like Roche and others, have anyway their installed park, and the labs will run the test if they have the machines. You have all the open systems that have been installed, and by companies of the like of Thermo Fisher, et cetera. Those systems are there. If the labs have good quality supplies at a competitive price, they will use the supplies that they consider appropriate. I don't exactly know what consolidation was for. We also have a number of different suppliers depending on the countries and the local approvals. It's also a question of which kits are approved in which country. We've made sure that in all our labs we can use our own kits, and they have the proper approval. Of course, time will tell how the market evolves and what happens.
There could be also breakthroughs. Sorry. Excuse me. There could be breakthroughs, and there could be new ways of testing PCR faster, better, more cost effectively that emerge because so much investment has been done around the world that I don't think that we've seen the end of the story in terms of innovation. I think it will, like for vaccines, this will trigger new ways of testing. For example, we've developed a test that we can use on Centaur platform, and if there was a need, we can create millions of tests per day capacity with that by reusing machines that were used in other parts of the biotech industry.
Thank you. Can I ask just a follow-up? You mentioned vaccines again there. You talked about it earlier. What do you expect your role to be in vaccines as those roll out? When will we have a clearer view of how that's going to develop through next year and potentially for the foreseeable future?
Thank you. Yes. This is a question that definitely not settled yet. It will be up to each government to decide what their health policy should be. What I raised is a number of questions that were asked by various governments. The first one is, should a vaccine be administered to someone who's already infected with COVID, potentially increasing the immune response? I think some countries will decide it's no problem. Others will decide they want to screen people before, or they want to screen people to see their level of immunity to decide on priority. If somebody has already high antigen levels or existing T cell immunity, maybe they should not be in the list of priority. So far, again, I'm not saying all governments will choose to do that.
You have, of course, the monitoring of the effectiveness of vaccines, and when it comes to vaccinating a second time people potentially, deciding when is the right time to vaccine people a second time. It could be a monitoring of the antibodies level, finding out whether these antibodies come from vaccines or come from a preexisting infection and how that evolves over time, and deciding when to vaccinate again people. That, of course, split between the antibodies, which are relatively easy to measure and the T cell immunity, for example. These are some of the topics that will have to be decided over the next, I guess, few quarters, depending on how each of these vaccines actually work and what is important in each case.
Excellent. Thank you very much.
The next question comes from the line of Ed Steele from Citi. Please go ahead.
Good afternoon, all. Hi, Gilles. Just one question from me, please. Looking at some of the data on testing volumes across Europe, it looks like a number of key countries like France, Germany, Spain, saw a peak in the H1 of November. Okay, it's a very fluid situation, but it feels like things have come off a bit since then. Does that data kind of chime with your experience, please?
A little bit, yes. I think probably the H1 of November was the highest or the H2, I'm not sure, anyway. We have now more than 50 labs testing for COVID around the world. We also transfer samples across countries. When one country is full, we can use the capacity we have in another country, so that it tends to blur a bit those peaks, make them maybe less big for us than they are in one country or less small. Yeah, it's very hard to predict what will happen with the testing regimes and with the pandemic over the next few months. Some governments are asking us to prepare vast capacities for January because they're quite worried of what will happen after Christmas. Maybe there won't be a peak in January. It's really very hard to predict.
Got it. Thank you very much.
Just as a reminder, if you do wish to ask a question, please press zero one on your telephone keypad now. The next question comes from the line of Nicolas Tabor from Stifel. Please go ahead.
Yes. Good afternoon. Thank you very much. The first question would be, we have more color on what should drive the organic growth, especially the core organic growth over the next year, the next two years. How much of that is just higher lab utilization versus the easier comparison base? How much could be lab expansion or even pricing if you have new, more sophisticated demand, let's say, in biopharma? In the same way, how should we think about the core margin expansion compensating for lower PCR testing through 2021? How much of that is coming from M&A integration? How much is coming from maybe the lower investment into the LIMS deployment? Thank you very much.
Thank you. Yes. At our Q3 results, we had tried to give some objectives for that. So we still stand by that, assuming 2022 has zero COVID revenues. We gave an objective for EBITDA and revenues and margin. The main contribution to margin is the end of all the reorganization programs that we have been carrying out during the last three to four years. We will have our lab footprint ready sometime in 2021. Indeed, as you mentioned, our digitalization program should have made massive progress by then. So we have less costs, less time our people are spent in redeploying new IT solutions, et cetera, or moving activities from lab A to lab B. Hence they can focus more on their clients, and they can focus more on growing the sales and optimizing what they do in their own lab. I think that's the main effect.
Some level of utilization, obviously. Pricing, we haven't figured out so much, although we see some inflationary potential. There is basically not enough capacity for some of the things we do, and we struggle to find staff for some activities, so we have to prioritize, of course, who we serve. We are working for a lot of the vaccine companies very closely for very important programs, but we can't even take all of them, although we are the market leader because of capacity. Of course, we have to recover the cost of the people we pay to do that. Those are some of the reasons for the margin expansion that we plan for 2022 for just our core business. Again, I think we can compare that to a pre-COVID situation. I think there will be elements of comparison.
If we compare H2 2019, which was not affected by the cyber attack at Eurofins, and H2 2022 to give a good indication. If COVID really stops this summer and there is no COVID effect in H2 2021, we already will have some comparison of the evolution, but we're satisfied about the progress we are making to basically streamline our business in a very efficient hub and spoke model. M&A, of course, we know what we bought. We don't know what we will buy in the next 18 months. Typically, it's slightly dilutive to our margins. If we add only EUR 150 million or EUR 200 million each year on a EUR 5 billion business, the impact on margin should not be too big in terms of potential dilutive effect. Sometime we buy companies with higher margins than our group as a whole. It really depends what we buy.
Thank you very much.
We have one more question from the line of Tom Sanderson from Berenberg. Please go ahead.
Yeah, thanks very much. Just had a couple of follow-up questions. First one sort of relates to the last question, I think. It's just, I'm wondering how much pent-up demand do you think there is in sort of areas of your core business as we go into 2021? Just wondered if there's any areas you'd highlight, perhaps a bit more subdued, or areas where you see a bit more pent-up demand that you think might come through into 2021. The second question was around the vaccine-related or vaccine development-related work you've talked about and you've sort of alluded to in relation to vaccine development.
Could you talk a bit more about that, sort of what kind of work you're doing, who you're working with, if you're able to say, what exactly needs testing, and also maybe how material that is, kind of what kind of magnitude of sort of revenue either by contribution, and for how long you're expecting that sort of earning stream to persist or any follow-on work that it might lead to from those clients you're working with, please?
Thank you. Yeah. Of course, we have one thing I didn't mention is in October and November, I did mention it actually, we grew 5%, but we had some of our businesses that were still idle. That has an impact on revenues, but of course, on margins. When those business start again, when people start going to restaurants again or start traveling again, or we can have volunteers come to our labs to evaluate in cosmetics or when the testing of certain clinical trials will start when the hospitals are no longer focused only on COVID, and that work will restart, and we'll get a margin from there also. We should recover relatively quickly. There is indeed pent-up demand there. There are studies that are just parked that could not be started or had to be postponed or slowed down during the pandemic.
The sponsors are really keen to complete them ASAP. That's clear. In food testing, it is being done as we go. There are some programs of product development that may be a bit slowed because of the pandemic. We saw it in some of our other activities in the Silicon Valley that during the lockdown, we had some work that was just paused, but they really want to catch up. I think we will have probably across the board at some level, some catch up of the work that mostly R&D work that our clients didn't do during the pandemic that they will want to catch up with because they want to launch new products, et cetera.
For vaccines, I can't cite names really, but all the names you hear about in the news, in one way or another, we work with them in pretty much, let's say, 80% to leave a room for not saying who that is. We work to help them develop the products, and we work to help them develop the testing modalities to release those products. We work to help them during the clinical trials to do the testing the immunity before or after the impact of the vaccines during those clinical trials. We continue to do so also in the monitoring. Then the bigger work that is starting now is the release testing, because those products, every batch has to be tested.
The release testing for the vaccines that are currently in production, but also for those which hopefully will be approved in the next few days, weeks, or months. That work potentially can continue indefinitely, and it can be substantial. We're building labs just for that at the moment. We're expanding labs just to be able to carry out the volume of testing that would be required. Of course, we don't know yet exactly which vaccine will be sold in which quantity this year, next year. There will be maybe cheaper vaccines coming to the market in the H2 of next year and 2022. We are already working with a number of vaccine producers in addition to those two that either are very close to having approval. Whether this work will be EUR 50 million per year, EUR 100 million, EUR 20 million, I don't know.
It really will depend on the success of the respective vaccines and which one is sold where. This work is important. Of course, it's part of what we do anyway. That's a whole new market, basically, those COVID vaccines, because we already did that for other types of vaccines and products. It's part of our core business.
Okay. Thank you very much.
As there are no further questions, I will hand it back to Gilles for closing remarks.
Thank you very much. Thanks to all of you for joining our call. We are sorry that we cannot give you advance warnings when we have something like that. We thought it is going to be 2 and a half months until we announce our results for this year. Considering the wide range of estimates in the consensus, we thought it was our duty to set some new objectives now that we have more certainty about how this year will end. I wish I could give you more certainty about next year. What we are convinced about is Eurofins will do well next year, and will do very well also going forward, even once the COVID PCR testing stops, assuming it stops. We still don't know.
There is still the possibility that three or four years from now, we still do a lot of PCR testing for COVID. We are always conservative, and we always prefer to surprise you with positive news than negative news. This is one of the scenarios. Hopefully not the most likely, but it is a possibility that 2022 or 2023, we'll still do some COVID testing. Personally, I hope not, and I hope we can go back to our normal lives and do our business, which is very exciting. We're very excited about all the new possibilities that research in this pandemic time has brought, because they will bring a lot of growth for our business and a lot of positive contribution to health for everybody. The pandemic will have a silver lining.
Not only will it teach us that we can do a lot of things online, and that will change the way we live and work to some extent, but in healthcare and also in food choices, combined with the more environmental awareness, there will be massive changes. We work a lot with food companies who develop alternative food, alternative proteins, that will also require a lot of testing, to replace maybe the meat-based regimes that a lot of countries have had for a long time, or to mitigate the quantity of meat. More natural sources, more organic products, shorter, smaller batches, shorter supply chains. All of those changes are basically for the better, and we'll be happy to support them. Overall, we're, as you can see, very excited about all the things we do, and we're proud of our contribution.
It has been a difficult year for us and for our staff, who've had to work a lot more than usual in more difficult circumstances. It's premature sign that our decentral model, as with many entrepreneurial companies, enabled us to move faster to have a contribution to fighting this pandemic that is significantly overproportional to our representation in the chemical testing business. I think we can be happy about that. Overall, it points to many areas that we will pursue in the next few quarters where we can contribute. It's all very exciting. This being said, lives are not normal, and I really are sad not to meet in person. I wish the new year will be better. I hope we can all have our meetings and talk about all those things together.
I'd like to conclude by wishing us all that Eurofins does very little COVID testing next year, that we go back to our normal lives, and we'll do everything to achieve that. I wish you all a happy holiday and a happy New Year, and I hope to see you in person soon in the new year. Goodbye.
This now concludes our conference call. Thank you all for attending. You may now disconnect your lines.