Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and I warmly welcome you to today's earnings call of Amadeus Fire AG following the publication of the Q1 figures of 2025. I'm delighted to welcome CEO Robert von Wülfing and Head of Investor Relations, Jörg Peters. The gentlemen and Mr. von Wülfing especially will speak in a moment and guide us through the presentation and the results. Afterwards, you have the opportunity to ask your questions directly to him. Having said this, let's dive into the numbers. Mr. von Wülfing, the stage is yours.
Thanks, Sarah. Good morning, everybody. We prepared like half an hour presentation following a Q&A. The reserved hour should serve. If there are additional questions, maybe we can stay a little longer and answer all of them. First of all, a little sorry I picked the flute, although this is recorded, I have to tell you. If my voice is leaving sometimes, hope you do not mind. Again, welcome. Following that turbulent day we had yesterday in Germany regarding the founding of the new coalition and in this consensus of a, well, say, bumpy environment, we also present our Q1 figures. This information, I shared some time, but again, now for the 16th time in a row, we saw basically a zero- growth in Germany. The environment did not improve. Last year, 2024, the decline of the German GDP was - 0.4%.
What worsened a little was the outlook in the meantime for the year 2025 in Germany, where the expectation now is a zero- growth scenario, 0.0 overall. We are still, I would say, in a pessimistic environment throughout the German corporations with certain reluctance to invest, with delayed decisions we find throughout in the market and generally a slowdown of the day-to-day business in Germany, also accounting for the professional business services, the environment we are operating in. In looking at the unemployment rate, we saw some more slight increase, now 6.3% or close to 3 million people in Germany unemployed. This goes alongside with the decrease we see in demand. At least there is some glimmer of hope also throughout the macroeconomic indicators we have.
For the last two months, we saw a slight increase in the business climate index of the ifo Institute in Germany, now to 8.9%. Larger increase February to March, and then a slight increase or stabilized situation March to April. 86.9 is a very low level. This you have to admit, but at least a slight improvement from where we were beginning of the year and end of last year. The environment overall still is quite uncertain. Visibility is low. We are now in this 90-day break we have regarding the tariffs. We will see how that will develop for the global economy and following that for the German economy. Luckily, we saw in the second round yesterday at least the founding of the new German government so they can start work.
This also we have to monitor closely whether this might have an impact on the environment development for the rest of the year. In Germany, the start was not the best, as you all know. This leads us to that our assumptions we made also, we based our forecast on 1.5 months ago, are almost unchanged. The GDP expectations lowered. The founding of the government was bumpy, but in the end, for us, the outlook remains the same that we will see basically a poor environment throughout the year 2025 with no significant improvement. This is what we still base our assumption on. Some highlights, and actually there are some lowlights also on that sheet for Q1 2025.
Starting with that, we should have to bear in mind that in 2024, throughout the year, we saw a decreasing development quarter by quarter in a, well, lower level of business in the second half year than third half year, especially in fourth quarter. Here in November and December and January, February were a continuation of that lowest level we saw last year. The year-on-year comparison for us in Q1 is definitely the toughest. This is what we already saw through the beginning of the year. From our point of view, currently no need to change our outlook. We gave for the year 2025 where we said that we will have revenues around EUR 400 million and an operating EBITDA of around EUR 40 million for the year.
This remains our expectations as assumptions and the business in Q1, developed as expected like we saw the situation in March when we gave the outlook. What we saw in first quarter is that we experienced again a decrease in the Personnel Services segment in revenues, in gross profit, and in earnings. Also, I will dive deeper later, we saw a difficult environment in Training, especially in the B2G and the B2B market in Q1. Finally, for the quarter, the EBITDA margin ended at 4.4%, a margin we are not used to at Amadeus Fire.
Given the current environment we are in, we saw that poor margin in first quarter this year coming from 12.6% last year, where we started, quite differently at the beginning of the year, especially in Training, where the expectations this year basically is more the other way around in terms of how this will develop. Ending in a low level of earnings per share of EUR 0.18 per share coming from EUR 1.67 last year. Following the earnings per share last year, we stick to our dividend policy to pay out 2/3 of our earnings. This is the proposal for the upcoming AGM in May to do a dividend payout of EUR 4.03 for the full year 2024. One other remark, although it's concerning myself, we extended the contract of myself in my CEO role for another five years.
For me, something actually very important in especially in tough times to, well, give the organization also a stable and solid outlook in terms of management focus you have in the group. Bottom line for us, despite we are very sure that with our two segments Training and Personnel Services, we have a strong position for the upcoming years or say next decade, the current situation will lead us in a challenging year 2025 with, as forecasted, a decrease in earnings. Looking at the figures a little bit more in detail, the revenues in first quarter achieved close to EUR 100 million, a decline of 14.5% following also the market environment I described. Same development, a little overproportionally in gross profit, margin declined to 52%, leaving us with EUR 51.1 million in gross profit. This development also had that impact on EBITDA I already described and on earnings.
What is affecting the EBITDA? Basically, as stated, the gross profit development in staffing and also a lower level of gross profit and business performance in B2G and B2B- training. We are in a cycle of investments which increased throughout the last year, and there is still a like-for-like increase in Q1 compared to Q1 last year in IT expenditure on transformations. On the other hand, I clearly want to point out that the cost measurements are in place, do have their impact, and will have an increasing impact over the turn of the year 2025. Business mix in between the segments leaves us in first quarter with a revenue share of about 40% of Training and 59% of Personnel Services.
Within the Personnel Services, you see that permanent placement is our largest service in terms of gross profit, which is the leading indicator in staffing of the relevance of the services, temporary staffing compared to permanent placement at a lower level of 20% of the overall share. One brief remark on our client mix in B2B business. Here, I just want to point out that Amadeus Fire, because of the broad range of customers we have, has no dependency on single customers or sectors. The details you will find on that slides. Also that we do not have any remarkable developments in terms of bad debts. Here, we have a nicely stable situation following the broad customer base we serve. A little bit more detail now on staffing.
On the left-hand side, you will find the development throughout the last two years, quarter by quarter, seeing that in the recession year of 2023, we already were on a growth path in some services. In 2024, that development slowed down and turned into a decrease, except interim management. The decrease in revenues in the different services continued now on the highest level in terms of decrease in Q1 2025, which is basically on a similar level to what we saw in the fourth quarter.
In temporary staffing, here we saw still some price increases driven by the underlying wage inflation we still have in Germany, but also because of the mix of assignments, the demand at the higher skilled profiles is more stable than on the lower level of qualifications in the range of temporary staffing assignments we serve, which has a positive impact on the hourly charge rates. Volumes are down, and the utilization rate in first quarter was more or less on the same level like from first quarter last year, 0.5 percentage points lower. In permanent placement and in temporary staffing, we see a lower conversion rate of the inquiries we receive into orders or placements of temporary employees.
This is for us now for a couple of quarters, the main issue that in terms of performance, this is limiting our organization achieving the net fee or gross profit level we are used to. What do we mean with lower conversion? This is along the sales funnel, if we receive or when we receive the inquiry that at the different points along the way, customers or clients turn down a process or delay processes more often than we saw in the past. We still have a shortage of qualifications and scarcity of personnel in the German labor market, especially in the qualified segments. This is holding back against that development I just described.
We saw in the beginning of the recession still some growth, but along the road now, having also the pessimistic, well, outlook and the cautious behavior of corporate clients, you see that impact on the current business. In interim management, this is holding up on a, well, stable level compared to prior year where we still saw significant growth. Relatively, interim management is taking share and is becoming step by step more relevant. Overall, we saw almost 20% decline in revenues and 23% in gross profit throughout all the roles and qualifications we have in the commercial fields and IT. What I already stated, the bad sentiment we felt in fourth quarter, especially in November and December, remains in Q1.
This one lever I stated regarding the business climate index, we also saw in our staffing business that following a January and February on a low level compared to November, December, March, we saw some improvement in business. If this remains or not remains to be seen, at least the situation improved a little. Also here, on the OpEx side, we do invest in our systems and are currently implementing a new CRM system. On the other hand side, we have some cost savings in personnel costs. If you compare quarter end on quarter end, last year, our number of fee earners in our sales organization is down 13%. What we still are, well, continue is to keep the organizational structure overall in place, the number of branch offices and the structure within the branch offices.
We very cautiously monitor every lever and decide whether we can replace that position or not. Currently, most of the times, we do not, to, well, concentrate on performance and not on onboarding activities, etc., which are also necessary if you have starters. We saw the decline in EBITDA significantly from close to EUR 8 million to EUR 2.7 million in first quarter. Despite the cost measurement we have in place and the reduction of headcount, also here accounts that some measures we already implemented will develop their strengths or impact throughout the year increasingly. In Training, just a brief look on the mix throughout the markets we are operating. Current business, current Training business of Amadeus Fire dominated in the B2G market segment with 78%, and lowest part is B2B. B2B, our, well, cyclical part of the market also under pressure in the current economic environment.
The B2C part remains market-wise and also our business very stable. Revenues here also declined 6.5%, and margin came down to EUR 1.6 million compared to, sorry, and earnings came down to EUR 1.6 million compared to EUR 6.5 million in Q1 last year. Just one flashback, last year, Q1, we started very strongly in B2G with both our businesses, Comcave and GFN. We saw in second quarter a change in terms and conditions, lowering our visibility in, the most important sales funnel, which is the public search engine we have, and that impacted both businesses, GFN and Comcave, because of the very broad offering of Comcave, more Comcave than GFN. The countermeasures here also are taken, but this will develop throughout this year. The like-for-like comparison with last year, we see the full impact of that issue. We have two other topics in Q1 also regarding B2G Training.
First, we always see a certain slowdown before an election in that market because the employment agencies normally act then more cautious because they want to have the new guidance by the new government how to continue with their training expenditure. Having that breakdown of the [Foreign language] end of last year gave in even more uncertainty in that period than we normally see. Something we saw in how the funnel of training vouchers worked out over the turn of the year, impacting also a number of students in first quarter. Lastly, one third topic with this, quite bureaucratic, is we have a change in who is responsible for issuing the training vouchers. The whole responsibility went to the employment agencies before in 2024. Also, the job centers were responsible for part of the training vouchers.
Also, the institutions had to learn to proceed the new way within some regions, which gave some turbulences over the turn of the year. That impacted the market in B2G. B2B, the given pressure we have in the overall environment impacted that. In B2C, we saw increasing revenues. A different picture here throughout the different brands we operate, Tax College Endriss and GFN growing, and Comcave impacted most by the three topics I mentioned above, although GFN is also affected in Q1 with a decline of 19%. Here, again, related to the outlook we gave, we see an increasing dynamic over the turn of the year in Training. In our projection, the first quarter will be the weakest one. We will see different results in the following quarters.
The three issues I mentioned regarding the B2G market, the first one will have no year-on-year impact in the second half year because it was already included last year. The countermeasures will, from our point of view, gain ground. First and second, the election is done, and already in March, we saw a change in behavior and a normal outflow back again of training vouchers, already resulting in increasing numbers of participants with GFN, also with Comcave. The development, which was a downward trend last year, will turn in an upward trend this year from our projection point of view. This little matrix gives an overview where we are operating in, with which qualifications in which markets we are intensively looking for additions.
After my new colleague, Monika Wiederhold, COO for Training, started in November last year, we will see what we can achieve through the turn of the year in terms of acquisitional growth. Here we focus most on the B2B part of the markets, non-accounting, where we do think that we can, well, round up our offering for the large broad range of corporate clients we have and build up in the end a platform of and combining the services of training and staffing in the end. A lot of efforts here ongoing. One brief view on development of the dividend, what we saw over the last years.
As I said in the beginning, the proposal to the AGM is again, so for the third time in a row, to stay with the 2/3 or 67% payout ratio, which this year ends in a volume of EUR 4.03 dividend payout following the AGM on 22nd of May. From my part, that would be the first overview on the development in the first quarter. I do know it is disappointing results. We announced that we will see the disappointing results already in the last meetings we had. Nevertheless, this Q1 now is effective. What changed is that we see a stable development with some improvement in Training for the turn of the year, rest of the year, sorry.
This is in contrary to last year where we had a, well, a good start, first, second quarter, and then saw a declining development in the second half year with the lowest end at the fourth quarter. Here we foresee a different path we will follow this year. Cost measurements, as I said, are in place, will become more and more effective. The proposed result of around EUR 40 million this year is something we are still looking for to achieve. Now I am happy to answer all your questions.
Thank you so much, Mr. von Wülfing, for the presentation. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now move over to the Q&A session. If you would like to speak directly to Mr. von Wülfing, just raise up your virtual hand. If you have dialed in by phone, you can use the key combination star key nine followed by star key six. As you are not able to speak freely today, you can also submit your questions in our chat box. In the meantime, we received the first hand from Andreas Wolf. You should be able to speak now.
Hi, good morning, everyone. Thank you for taking my question.
Hi, Andreas.
I have two, if I may. Robert, you spoke about a weak Q1. Is it basically in line with what you expected when the guidance was given, the guidance for the full year? Could you also provide the building blocks that would take Amadeus to the adjusted EBIT target for 2025, the internal factors that management can influence and factors that have to contribute to the business from outside? That is kind of the first question. As we are going into Q2, could you also comment on the business in April in Personnel Services as well as Training, and here also the new candidate requests for the courses? That would be very helpful. Thank you.
Thanks for the question, Andreas. On the first question, yes, Q1 came in as expected. This is, well, the forecast we in the end gave is on the same level of revenues and results and gross profit as stated in March when we gave the outlook. That was, I think, the first part of the first question. Throughout the year, what are the blocks in the end resulting in the forecast we gave? As I said, I do see increasing potential in Training over the course of the year in the B2C market where we are operating.
We have a traditional low level of earnings in first quarter. Here we will see different results in the upcoming three quarters as planned from current point of view. The B2G market, we see it improving, and we see that, but we also expected that following the elections and the beginning of the work of the new coalition. Luckily, they are in place since yesterday. Here, we see some improvements and that we will benefit from in B2G from the poor market environment. Overall, we are in Germany with a higher unemployment rate in staffing. As I said, a little improvement in March. Here, what we are planning is a business level on a continuing low level. Here, cost management is actively in place, same as in Training, but we should see some improvement here.
What I also said is in the last calls that we invest in technology, this we continue. Nevertheless, also here, we turn every penny and the originally proposed increase when we were in the middle of last year that we will have another significant increase in 2025 following 2024, having the two peak years. This will still be an increase, but on a much lower level. OpEx management, cautious hiring, using technology to drive efficiency, also having some reorganization measures started and/or in place. This is the cost management we will continue throughout the year. Stable business in staffing, improving business in Training, and cost management are basically the blocks which we see for achieving the full real results. This is also the main elements to talk about in second quarter. I don't know whether this fits with your question.
At least I understood that was what you were asking for.
Yeah. So basically, you see stabilization in staffing. So that's related to Q2 and improvements in training as well as we are going into the second quarter with the building blocks that you provided for the first question.
Yeah.
Okay.
One thing you should have to bear in mind that you always have a low number of chargeable days in second quarter, right?
Yeah. Thank you for the hint. Thanks a lot.
Thank you very much.
Thank you so much for your questions, Mr. Wolf. By now, we have no further questions. If there are still topics you would like to discuss, just let us know. Now we have a further virtual hand from Simon van Oppen. Please go ahead.
Yes, thank you very much and good morning. I have a question about the Training business. You mentioned that you're making significant investments here. I was wondering, with the lower visibility on the federal employment agencies' website, I was wondering, how do you steer your investment in the Training business to accommodate for this lower visibility? Do you think investments in the Training business are going to be paid off also when visibility on the employment agency's website remains poor? Thank you.
The visibility is something because of the terms and conditions, which changed because of the maximum level of offerings you can put on the search engine. This new mix is something where starting from second, third quarter last year, you can nevertheless develop your business further, gain market shares, use other channels, and develop the business.
Here, I do not see that we are fundamentally limited in our performance in B2G business, and we want to improve it, that as a first statement. Secondly, the investments we do, this is not only for the B2G market, but for the whole of the Training where we want to develop all three markets in the upcoming years. It is about building up an ecosystem or a platform also for every individual professional and our corporate clients, fitting in also with staffing. This is a path we want to follow and we see a lot of opportunities in. Thirdly, the Training itself, the market or the way you offer trainings to people is changing significantly. You have to use an increasing part of technology already now and even more in the future.
The whole didactic concept, the whole way of producing content is in a fundamental change. I do think that in this market, it is more than necessary to be part of that process. If you do not, you are in a difficult situation the upcoming years. From our point of view, this is much more an opportunity than a threat. We have to follow that path to offer our students and participants this, well, new and better formats in terms of achieving their learning goals. Here necessarily, we have to invest.
Okay. Thank you. That is very clear. Maybe if I may, one other question. In your quarterly statement, you mentioned that there was a reluctance to share training vouchers by the government, but expenditures by the federal employment agencies were actually up roughly 30% compared to last year. Could you please give some more color on how expenditures under the SGB II and SGB III programs affect spending on training vouchers and in turn, the results of GFN and Comcave?
Y eah. This is actually an interesting figure, this large increase, because we have a lot of or we have new measures in place funded out of the social code, which is SGB, directly to the unemployed. They receive additional unemployment money if they take part in trainings and some other measures which are not funded to training companies, but directly to the people which were not in place the year before. Most part of the increase is coming from that. We are currently working on finding out what exactly are the portions in which fund. Hopefully, I can state on that the following quarters because the pure figure of increase, and this is why I try to explain it in the statement, is kind of misleading because the increase is not ending with the training companies, but with the unemployed themselves.
Okay. Thank you. That's very clear.
Thank you so much, Mr. van Oppen. By now, we have no further questions. We have a bit of the time left. Let's wait a couple of seconds or maybe another question pops up in the chat or via the audio line. It seems everything is answered so far. This means we will come to the end of today's earnings call. Thank you, everyone, for joining and your shown interest in Amadeus Fire. It was a pleasure to be a host today. I wish you all a lovely remaining week. I hand back to you, Mr. von Wülfing, for some final remarks, which concludes our call for today.
Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, everyone, for joining that call. Let's see how 2025 will develop also for overall of Germany. I'm quite happy that we saw yesterday in the end of conclusion, we have a new government. Let's see how that will impact the ongoing development. I do see some opportunities. Nevertheless, as I said the last time, it's still cloudy weather. We will try hard to improve the top line. We will hardly push also on the cost base. We will deliver the proposed results for the full year if circumstances remain at least stable. Thank you very much and hope to see you next time in an improving environment. Goodbye.