Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Outokumpu Q2 2021 Pre-Silent Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one on your telephone. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. If you require any further assistance, please press star zero. I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Linda Häkkilä. Please go ahead.
Thank you, operator. Good afternoon all, welcome to follow Outokumpu's Q2 2021 Pre-Silent Conference Call. My name is Linda Häkkilä, and I'm the Head of Investor Relations here at Outokumpu. With me today, we have our CFO, Pia Aaltonen-Forsell. Today, we will first start with a short update from our CFO, and then we are happy to take your questions. Now, without any further comments, I will hand over to our CFO.
Thank you, Linda, and good afternoon. Good morning, everybody. I hope you are keeping well in the middle of the summer here. I think the weather has been rather hot, at least here in Finland, and it seems so even globally. Certainly, hope you are all keeping safe and well in these circumstances. Let's talk a little bit about markets and about the situation, also relative to Outokumpu's business today. Let me just get right on with it. Starting with the market situation, obviously, we have seen a much stronger market environment already in Q1, and you recall that our guidance on volume, first of all, for the second quarter was to say that we will be in about a small bracket, 0%-5% higher on a global level for the stainless deliveries. Here I would say, we are safely within that bracket.
Seems now here at the end of the quarter that we are probably quite middle of the range there. I think there, please keep in mind that our capacity utilization was high already in Q1. The volume that we have produced has really been operating on those sort of high levels of capacity utilization, certainly also in the second quarter. Maybe a little bit of description of the market sentiment per se, I think we are still in an environment, if I first look at Europe, where we are experiencing long lead times. What it means in practice is, we said five months last time, I think it's extending even up to six months right now. It means that we are very firmly booking into December or even beyond at this point in time.
Something that is still worth noting as well is that we, at this point, and I think I have May data points, so that's the most recent I have, but just looking at inventory through the chains and distributors in Europe, we are still clearly at lower levels than average. I think that may be something worth noting as well. We have seen this rebound from the COVID, but still I think worth noting is that if we really look at what's going on from an underlying demand perspective, we wouldn't necessarily say that, "Hey, this is some sort of new high level." Rather it may be a return to a more normal level or even a return to a more 2019 level. Obviously, we have had so empty supply chains, and this refilling of them is clearly still ongoing with still low inventory volumes here.
Maybe still, just from a mix perspective, I first want to confirm what we said earlier, that while we have seen the rebound in the segments that are maybe kind of closer to end customer, we started to see the rebound first in appliances, in automotive, et cetera, and we have seen the rebound through all of the classical standard grades. We still talked last time at our info about the fact that for the more value-adding grades, we are more dependent on the investment cycle, and we expected the rebound of those to occur a little bit later in this cycle. I think that's exactly what we've been seeing in Q2 per se. I mean, the mix still was, I would say, not back to pre-COVID levels. It was just slightly hovering there around similar low levels, I think Q1, maybe just really small incremental improvements.
In the order intake, we have seen more of the rebound also to the value-added grade. Mind you, haven't seen the scrubber business return yet, but a lot of the other value-added grades, certainly from an order intake perspective, are back now. I'll jump quickly over to Americas as well. I think that's another significant market for us. Obviously, in Americas, we have the same sort of situation with a strong market, obviously also still low inventory level at distributors and clearly a very dynamic market and environment right now with clear GDP growth and also a lot of stimulus, a lot of activity in the economy right now. A good market environment there. Maybe still, kind of as a final note on the market, I'll just also comment on ferrochrome. Ferrochrome, obviously, benchmark price for Q3 confirmed to be at Q2 level at the EUR 156.
We've also seen here a tight market situation. A part of this is, of course, even tragically, if I may use that word, if you look at some of the key producing countries in South Africa, there's visible in the figures that a third COVID wave is really shaking the country right now, but also from some other ends of production, Inner Mongolia, still suffering from significant electricity squeezes, et cetera. Clearly with good demand and a somewhat challenged supply situation, the rollover of the benchmark price was maybe well aligned with that one. Trade protection, I think you have all noted there, the safeguards continuing for another three years, basically with the same scheme, also with the 3% relaxation per year. I'm sure you also noted the antidumping on Indonesia and India on cold-rolled imports from those countries. That was also confirmed during the quarter.
For Indonesia, it means about 20% antidumping tariffs. I think those were good conclusions. Obviously, what is still ongoing is the sunset review of the earlier Chinese antidumping tariffs. A lot of confirmatory or concluded actions there on the trade protection side. Finally, let me then move on to the cost side, where I think there's certainly a lot of interesting elements we could talk about. Maybe I'll start a bit with scrap. I mean, just maybe not to discuss costs per se, but specifically just the situation in the market, given that we have a good stainless steel demand, obviously, that also translates into a lot of demand for scrap.
We have seen there, somewhat tightening situation, and I just want to reassure you that to the level of optimal usage of scrap, I think we have been able to get access to the scrap that we have set out to procure, and from that perspective, the situation has remained under control also in the second quarter. More generally on costs, obviously from a variable cost perspective, there is something certainly to be said also about variable cost efficiency and overall efficiency in a situation with high volumes, efficiencies have been good. Even with a little bit of inflationary pressure in the second quarter, I would say, particularly from a European perspective, I think we have managed really well on the cost side there. In the Americas, I think we have a little bit of a tightening. The freight costs have increased a little bit.
I think that's maybe worth noting, but the freight cost and ferrosilicon cost, but the fact that I'm mentioning these does not mean that they are really significant. It's just to say that from an overall variable cost perspective, I think, if we are discussing inflation, we should probably more be looking into the later part of the year at how inflation will be playing out there. It's not really a Q2 topic per se. On the fixed cost side, obviously, we had some more maintenance in the quarter. We talked about about EUR 10 million extra for the quarter compared with Q1, and I think that's pretty much where we will land. Also, from a wages perspective, I just want to say that we have definitely continued and already executed quite a lot on the significant personnel reductions.
However, please take into account that with an improved result and also with an improved situation when it comes to, for example, production volumes, production bonuses, et cetera, there will be somewhat more bonus payments also accounted for in the period. Finally, a note on the balance sheet. In the second quarter, obviously an important private placement equity issuance, and that EUR 210 million was all used to pay down debt. We've had an improvement also in our credit rating. From a seasonality perspective, Q2 is typically one still building working capital, and I think with good sales as well through the quarter and towards the end of the quarter, I would expect there to be still, from a seasonality perspective, building working capital in this quarter and then typically in Q3 and Q4, getting the cash back in.
I think with that said, my brief introduction is done, and I think we can now open up for the Q&A, please.
Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star one on your telephone. To withdraw your question, please press the pound or hash key. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Patrick Mann from Bank of America. Please ask your question.
Hi. Good afternoon. I just wanted to ask maybe around inventories and revaluations, how we should be thinking about that in Q2. Thanks.
Yes. Good afternoon, Patrick, really good question. Yeah. Especially as that was rather significant positive in the first quarter. It was on group level about EUR 40 million, EUR 42 million, I recall, positive in the first quarter. I would say overall it's still going to be a positive number, but not nearly as positive as it was in the first quarter. We have not yet closed finally the books to really have the final number. I think it's probably more in the magnitude of a very low double-digit figure as opposed to the sort of EUR 42 that we saw in the first quarter.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Patrick.
Your next question comes from the line of Tristan Gresser from Exane. Please ask your question.
Yes. Hi. Can you please remind us what is your current status on carbon credit inventory, and especially when do you expect to run out and buy actively on the market, assuming no change to the current policy, which is right now a 2.2% annual decline. Thank you.
Yeah. Thank you, Tristan. It's a good question, and I think there's still some level of only sort of expectation and estimates here in what I will tell you. I think based on how we currently estimate both the reduction in our emissions and then also the sort of future free ETSes that we would get, I think we will go past sort of the middle of this decade before we are in a situation where we would need to buy. If we can be more aggressive on the CO2 reduction, obviously the situation could still change. Just from a policy perspective, obviously, we would take into account the whole period and would be able to buy if the situation was right.
When you ask specifically that when would you start to buy, I think that would more be then a tactical question of thinking around this. Certainly just from when would we run out, we would at least go sort of past definitely, maybe even closer to the end of this decade.
All right. Thank you. That's helpful. If I just may follow up, it seems that stainless will be excluded from the carbon border tax or carbon border adjustment mechanism according to a draft of the policy. What do you think if this is the case, is it a net positive for Outokumpu steel sector, or would you view this negative?
I think from what I know about the carbon border adjustment mechanisms that are being planned for right now, they would not take into account all of the Scopes. Scope 1, Scope 2, and Scope 3. I think especially in an industry like ours, the Scope 3 and sort of the full footprint really of also the raw material that we use is really significant. I would say any mechanism that would be really meaningful would need to include all of the Scopes. I think that's something that we are really sort of considering and thinking about. I think our primary focus really remains on reducing our CO2 footprint really for all of the Scopes. That's also what our commitment now is for working with Science Based Targets initiatives and partners.
Thank you.
Your next question comes from the line of Rochus Brauneiser from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please ask your question.
Yes, hi, good afternoon. Couple of questions from my side. Maybe just a brief follow-up on the border tax question. What is your view right now about the timeframe until a definite solution on the way this will be designed can be expected? Is this just another year from now? What is your view on this?
Oh, you are asking a really, really challenging question because I think we've seen, just look at some other fairly political processes such as, for example, the safeguards. Obviously, we know that the renewal happened on June 24th when there was exactly six days to go until the end of the month. Honestly, I feel that I probably don't have any sort of better sort of final information than what you would already have at this point.
All right. Okay. I think you commented briefly on volume dynamics Q2 versus Q1. When you look at your order intake now, where would you see a bit more dynamic? Is this more now bound to Europe or to the U.S. at the moment?
Actually, both are really in sort of a positive, I wanted to say mood, but the demand situation is good. I think in Americas, it's also seeing really sort of dynamically the whole GDP growth, the whole economy in a sort of very strong rebound. We also see this rebound in our demand in Europe. Just comparing the lead times in Europe today six months and beyond dynamic also when it comes to kind of customer inquiries. I mean, customers are certainly interested in discussing annual contracts already for 2022, and I think in some individual cases we are already concluding on them. I think the same goes for U.S. as well. I mean customers are really eager to book volumes.
We have at least four-month lead times in the U.S., which is long for that market. Certainly also having a lot of customers interested to discuss with them too. From that point of view, I think even though maybe the underlying demand dynamic is somewhat from a GDP macro perspective, I think U.S. is really strong. We also see strong demand in Europe.
Okay. One question, I'm not sure how much you can comment. I was seeing some latest base price data for Europe pointing that the spot market could have reached a EUR 1,500 level. Would you say this is a bit of a high number at that point in time, or could you confirm it?
Yeah, well, anecdotally and for some individual case, of course, you can always see these kind of peaks, but certainly, that is something very high, very unique and more I would say that just looking at development. Let's just look a year back. In Q2 of last year, COVID started. We really started to see the pressure on prices and prices lowering from Q3 from Q4, et cetera. We've certainly seen, in already realized invoicing as well, sort of the rebound from those very low COVID levels and back to something kind of more normal. However, when we now, just looking at orders already received, it is clear that we see further price increases in line with, for example, say, CRU data. That EUR 1,500 does seem to me as some sort of special case.
I think that would also historically be extremely high, of course.
Right. Great. Pia, one last question is on your ferrochrome business, maybe to better understand that.
Okay. Is it possible to give us a kind of an average number, what the ferrochrome needs are across your typical stainless portfolio?
Yeah, that's a good question. I guess I haven't answered it directly in that way. Can I answer it sort of indirectly to say that, in a sort of normal year, we would use about 75% of the production that we do in ferrochrome internally, and then we would sell about a quarter externally. That would sort of be on the balance of things. Obviously, we try as much as possible, also for the fact, of course, that our ferrochrome is unique in being low CO2. It's only 42% of average global CO2 emissions in our ferrochrome. Obviously we really want to use that, and our mills are geared towards using this internal ferrochrome.
Okay, that's very helpful. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Krishan Agarwal from Citigroup. Please ask your question.
Hi, Pia. Thanks a lot for taking my question. You sound very optimistic on the volume side of the things, and then you're looking to six months of lead time to the Europe. Can you maybe talk about how much of these volumes are basically coming from the stronger market, or is there any case of a market share gain for you guys in, at least in Europe?
I think based on sort of the stats that we have so far, I think sort of the rebalancing that we certainly would like to see is kind of what's the balance between the imports and kind of the business of Outokumpu and peers. I don't think. Now I only have April data, and usually the first quarter of the month, we still see this sort of higher import levels, and they tend to go down in kind of month two and three. If I just look at that data, I couldn't yet confirm that we have a higher market share, but that's not really maybe telling for the full quarter. I think we worked really hard also on sort of finding those right spots for our business and through that, obviously, competing also to achieve a higher market share.
Based on the data right now, I would say it more confirms that we have also seen a rebound in the market.
Okay. Quite clear. In the context of six months of lead times in Europe, we would have clear visibility into the third quarter volumes.
Yes.
On the other hand, we have kind of a seasonality, kind of a volume going down. How should we think about the third quarter situation? Are we looking for flat volumes or some kind of increase this time around?
Yeah. No, that's a really good question, and I'll need to come back to the sort of precise guidance when we give out Q2, and I'll explain from a market perspective, I think we had really good visibility until the end of the year. Then sort of the exact timing of some bigger maintenance that we typically do in Q3. When you speak about seasonality, I mean, partially it's of course driven by the fact how our customers typically act, and then we have also very often chosen to do some of the bigger maintenance work in that quarter. We won't have any big maintenance on the ferrochrome side. On the stainless side, there's probably a couple of sort of bigger things we would need to do also on the melt side, et cetera.
That's why I wouldn't yet really say, can we stay flat on the volumes or typically volumes would go down for Q3, then we would see a little bit of a rebound in Q4. That would be the normal seasonal pattern. Now obviously, with a strong market, exactly how we will position that, I'll need to come back in the Q2 release.
Okay. Thanks a lot.
Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Luke Nelson from JP Morgan. Please ask your question.
Hi, good afternoon. Thanks for taking our questions. Just a few for me. Firstly, on ferrochrome, can you give a sense of what the mix between spot and contract sales is quarter-on-quarter?
I think at the Q1, you mentioned that the sensitivity would be below the typical EUR 10 million per EUR 0.10 move.
Yeah.
Maybe you can just give an indication of how that is tracking so far.
Yeah. Luke, thanks very much, actually a really good question. I think based on the data points that I have today, also how I've seen how my comment has been interpreted, I think there's been a lot of sense and understanding into the fact that we got a little bit of that price improvement already through in Q1. Some of the things that I tried to look into was also, in a really good market situation, how have we been able to produce? Are we getting the volume out that the market is asking for? How much of those benefits can we retain, and how can we balance the contract part with any sort of additional spot parts? We've obviously tried to produce as much as we can, and I think we have been running fairly well as well through the quarter.
I think still overall, when you just look at the normal sensitivity and then look at the fact that we got in some of those price improvements already in Q1, I think it's very much in line with what I said about a month or a month and a half ago.
Okay, that's very clear. Just following up from a comment you made before around Q3 and some maintenance in the melt shops. What's the expectation of that, in terms of absolute levels but also maybe relative? I think this quarter there's around EUR 10 million-
Yeah.
at a group level.
Yeah.
Is that sort of similar level of maintenance in Q3?
Yeah, I think it could be similar, I think Q2 or maybe just a little bit higher, because of the duration of some of the maintenance. If it's similar, then I'm really happy. If it's a little bit higher, I think it's still kind of within the boundaries for what we could expect and I think the real sensitivity here will be around how to do the volumes, and how to place the volumes Q3, Q4, in particular. Obviously, just looking at how much volume has usually dropped from Q2 to Q3, obviously we are talking about tens of kilotons, and that is based on the overall production volumes in the quarter. Unless we kind of reposition that to later in the year, then that would sort of be the normal pattern.
We still have to come back with this guidance then in our future releases.
Okay, sure. I suppose high level as well, and I probably know your answer to this given comment on volumes, but given seasonal effects heading into the summer periods, but you do have higher base pricing coming through.
Is it reasonable to expect that we can see further significant EBITDA improvement given those moving parts as we head into Q3, or is it still too early to make a judgment on that?
Well, I think I can comment on some of the parts, on the overall EBITDA guidance, I think it's a little bit too early to give it at this stage. I think that, exactly as you said, on the pricing side, you see that from the CRU stats, we can confirm that from orders that we have already received, it is to say that we are still on an improvement path, on an increasing path when it comes to prices. If during Q2, we saw more of a return to something more normal, certainly we will continue to see improvements after that. Those obviously are really important then for the contribution margin. I think that's something definitely to keep in mind.
On the other hand, volume is super significant for us, both on the efficiency perspective and then obviously just from plain absolute euros that we can earn on those. Those will be two big drivers that will need to be taken into account. I think a third one, too, I think worth mentioning, because it's been so significant this year, is then also the impact of metal prices on raw materials and on hedging. As I described before, this was really supportive in Q1, and it's only going to be a small number in Q2, then let's see where will commodity prices go and where will we see nickel price, et cetera. That dynamic also needs to be taken into account.
There I think, with the visibility that we will have early August, we will then give our best current view of that at that point in time.
Okay, that's very clear. One final question from me, just in terms of headcount reductions that you touched on.
Can you just remind us what the sort of cash out effect will be from the reduced headcount in Q3, and whether there's any additional provisioning or anything that should take into account?
Yeah. There is no additional provisioning of any sort of significant amount, because we did the big provisions end of last year. Overall, the cash out this year for those provisions will be north of EUR 50 million, EUR 50 million- EUR 55 million . We have seen already more than EUR 20 in the first quarter. I cannot yet confirm the second quarter figure for you, but I think it will still be there, pretty significant, as a lot of the cash out happens at the point when the person leaves. There are different ways of setting this in different countries. So that is why I would say there certainly can still be a tail in both Q3 and Q4, but we do have a heavy burden of the cash out, particularly early in the year.
Very clear. Thanks a lot for your time.
Thank you.
Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Harri Taittonen on from Nordea. Please ask your question.
Yes, good afternoon, Pia. A question on the typical relationship between the transaction price and what happens to your average selling price. I mean, I know that it's also very high level thing, in Q1, the relationship was that transaction prices were up by about 22%, and your average sales price in Europe was up by a bit less than 10%. It's understandable that the volatility is lower, of course, for your realized prices. In many ways, is it possible to give color on how, should there be sort of difference in the dynamics in Q2? Again, we have seen the transaction prices moving up about the same amount by a bit of about 20%-
Yeah.
what the outcome might look like.
I certainly understand the question, I'm thinking about a few ways of maybe kind of addressing this question. First of all, I think the dynamic that we already saw in Q1 is certainly a fair chance that it's valid also in Q2 for a few reasons. One of them, obviously, is that we have sort of a base in our orders that are the longer term contracts. I don't think we have ever really said exactly how big a share it is. It is still there, it's sort of a platform that we stand on, it creates a certain base dynamic into the way how we operate. You have to also keep in mind that there are annual contracts. Of course, there are also contracts for example, six months, et cetera.
There could be annual contracts even, some of the pricing will then kind of stay there also as a stable year base for the year. That's one reason why you could see these variations. Obviously, another one, at least for me, worth mentioning, is simply timing as well. Because you know that with really long lead times that we have right now, what we see right now in higher prices in order intake is obviously something that then typically we would now invoice in Q4. It also means that we are kind of building up, in our order stock, these gradually increasing prices. In realized invoicing, for example, in the second quarter, we probably still have a lot of goods that were priced in early in Q1, maybe even late Q4.
I think that's why it creates this kind of, should I call it a lag, maybe? There's also never a one-to-one relationship between the transaction prices you can see and our realized invoicing.
Yeah. No, that is good. Just on the contract negotiations, can you remind us typically when they start and when they are going to fix them? Is this year going to be different?
Yeah.
Everybody quite concerned about the availability for volumes.
Yeah. I think the dynamic is somewhat different this year because I would say a very typical pattern is to go into those really intense negotiations only really towards the end of the year. They kind of start during the autumn, and then get really intense more towards the end of the year. At this point in time, I think we had a number of customers who really expressed their wish to discuss 2022, and then even the individual cases where we were already saying, "Okay, let's conclude." I think the dynamic is different, and I think some of the reasons at least include that the supply chains were so dried out with the COVID, the inventory levels were so low, that this sort of surge, the need for volume is now through the chain there. I think that creates a different dynamic this year.
Okay. That's great. Maybe just one last question on behalf of my colleague in the credit side, if I may.
Yeah. Sure.
On the net debt EBITDA target, you have basically comfortably reached the target already, and obviously you communicated that the focus is still on the balance sheet strengthening.
Yeah.
Is there going to be some sort of time or any indication, like when you might be addressing that target or target level again? Is it part of the strategic timetable that time comes later, or how do you see that?
Harri, I think it's a fair question. I think everyone on the line can safely assume that, at least for everyone on the credit side, but I guess many others as well, this question has come up that will you update the targets now we're clearly having safely landed in safe territory on the below three on the leverage. I think that's why we choose in the capital market today to try to be very explicit to continue to say we will continue to focus on the balance sheet. We really want to reduce the net debt. Obviously, now with improved EBITDA figures, also leverage as a measurement, then it shifts very rapidly, obviously, with changing EBITDA levels. What I want to clearly communicate is that from management perspective, really the priority to make sure that net debt will continue to be lower is there.
Then, when we can or if we will update that as an official financial target, we'll need to see. We are obviously somewhere in the middle of this first strategy phase now. We launched it in November, and we are working through the improvements on the EBITDA side. We'll have to see.
Okay, excellent. Thank you.
Thanks, Harri.
Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone. Your next question comes from the line of Ioannis Masvoulas from Morgan Stanley. Please ask your question.
Hello, good afternoon, and thanks for taking my questions. Just a couple left from my side. The first one on the Americas. You've noted the midterm EBITDA potential for that division in the past for around $150 million-$200 million over the medium term.
That translates to about EUR 200 per ton or so of profitability. You seem to be already at that sort of level at the Q1 results.
Can you talk about the potential to stay or to overshoot the target for the next several quarters if the current market conditions persist? Just a second question. We've seen higher electricity prices across Europe. Could you give us a bit of an update on how you're exposed to that and what sort of incremental cost headwind we should expect in Q2 and possibly in Q3 relative to Q1? Thank you.
Indeed, thank you very much. On the Americas question, I do think it's a really good question under these circumstances. Let me phrase it this way. I think that what we want to ensure is that for the Americas business, we have a sustainable underlying business on this very healthy level of EBITDA and also EBITDA per ton, as you mentioned. Obviously, with sustainable underlying, I also mean that I wouldn't count in, for example, hedging impacts or metal inventory valuation impacts, et cetera. I would really be watching that sort of underlying EBITDA development, and I think we are still working on many of those important topics there. Obviously, with higher volumes, that's an important factor. We need to have the right volumes there. We need to have the right mix.
We also need to still work ensuring our year cost base, raw material, what we call Slab Cost Optimization, having all of these in really super shape. I think to your question that is this cyclical, is there a point in the cycle where such a midterm target could even be overachieved? I think we'll have to probably look at Q2 figures and look at how much result do we have there excluding hedging and these sort of raw material impacts. I think that's going to be one important key factor to look at. Certainly, I think that we have a good business in the Americas, and it's now starting to show some of the strength. I do believe we are on a good track there. To your second question on the higher electricity prices, yes, indeed, and we do have exposure to electricity prices.
It is very rare that we would buy pure spot. We have a certain, that we call hedging strategy, but it's obviously a contractual arrangement, and there is other mechanisms to make sure that we are on a solid base. Nevertheless, I would say that obviously with the sort of trending in electricity prices that we are seeing now, it will gradually start to impact us, and we do have 10% of our cost base almost in this sort of electricity energy bucket. We are not immune to it. I would say that we certainly don't get this sort of direct big hits here either. It's more of a gradual thing.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thanks.
Thank you. There seems to be no further questions at this time. Please continue.
Thank you, operator, and thanks, everybody, for really, really good questions. I think it gave an opportunity to further talk about some of the details and particularly also around pricing that I think are important dynamics to watch as we speak. As said, we will come back with more volume guidance also on Q3 than in our Q2 release, as obviously with a lot of other important information. Talk to you soon again. And with that, Linda, I would hand back to you.
Thank you, Pia. First of all, thank you all for listening our pre-silent conference call today. Before we close the call, I would like to remind you that we will start our silent period tomorrow on July 6th, and we'll continue it until our January-June result is published on Thursday, August 5th. Now, have a great summer, and talk to you in August. Thank you.
This concludes today's conference call, thank you all for participating, you may now disconnect.