Hi there. You are welcome to follow up Talenom Q1 Business Review. My name is Otto-Pekka Huhtala. I'm the CEO, and here is my colleague.
Hello, I'm Matti Eilonen, CFO. Good day to everybody.
Today our content will be a short review of the period, and after that, Matti will open more about financial development and outlook and guidance. After that, I will deeper talk about the strategy process and software businesses. Let's go. The separation of the software business was completed. The Finnish business grew while profitable, improved future. As you can see, our net sales increased about 5%, and it was EUR 36 million. EBITDA increased 12.5%, and we achieved around EUR 11 million. It has boosted with excellent Finland business. Now we will open first-time business areas revenue. Here you can see in the 1st quarter, our revenue in the software side was close to EUR 7 million, and in accounting business, EUR 29 million. This is shortly of the whole recap, and now Matti will open more about figures.
Welcome to follow this business review of Talenom 1st quarter from my behalf also. Let's start with the revenue. Revenue ended up at EUR 36 million, growing by 5%, and the comparable net sales was pretty much on the same level than last year, growing by 0.5%. Net sales in Finland increased, while the customer churn in Sweden during 2024 was tracking down the growth to the upside direction. Net sales in Spain, it remained pretty much on the same level than last year. Having a look on the business areas, the software business was around EUR 7 million, and the accounting business was EUR 29 million. We managed to separate the software business from the accounting business, and the structure changed a little bit so that the recognition of the revenue was different in the software business, and it boosted the first half with EUR 1.5 million higher revenue.
The group comparable net sales was EUR 34.2 million, growing by 0.5%. EBITDA ended up almost EUR 11 million, and the EBIT was close to EUR 5 million. This was pretty much because the profitability in Finland improved significantly, supported by organic growth. As I said, Sweden slowed down the profitability improvement because the net sales declined there. If we look at the comparable EBITDA, it was better when we compared to last year, EUR 0.3 million. The comparable operating profit was slightly below the comparison period because of the higher depreciation level. On an investment level, our investment to our own software went down by EUR 800,000. With the steady pace, it would mean EUR 3 million for the full year. That, of course, will have the influence on the depreciation level in the future.
Business in Finland grows by 11%, and we saw at the end of last year that our customers' transaction volumes, the decline of that has stopped, and that gave the space to successful sales to create growth. The comparable net sales increased by about 5%. Profitability also improved in Finland because of this one-time EUR 1.5 million improvement in the net sales, but also because of the organic growth and the further improved efficiency. The EBITDA on a comparable level went up by EUR 500,000. The business declined in Sweden by 14%, and that was mainly because of 2024. We had higher churn in a few offices. Recent months, we have been seeing a better trend on getting new customers and also on churn.
What happened in 2024 when the churn was higher, it will have the influence to '25, mostly on H1, but also for the second half, but it should ease up on the second half. Profitability was pretty much on the same level, a little bit declining, and we've been adjusting our personnel cost against the new revenue level. We did not want to do it that too strongly because we have to maintain the capabilities to create organic growth in the future. In Spain, the revenue was pretty much on the same level as last year, and we have focused on getting recurring customers instead of non-recurring customers. The recurring customers went up, that sales, and the non-recurring went down. That is why the revenue was pretty much on the same level than last year.
We expect this positive trend to continue in getting new customers, and we expect that it will create growth for this year. Profitability was on the same level measured by EBITDA, and we believe that when we can create organic growth, it will also bring good results on the profitability in Spain. When we look at the business areas, the accounting business has revenue almost EUR 29 million, and the comparable software business net sales was EUR 5.5 million. The reported revenue was EUR 7 million, and it was increased by this EUR 1.5 million one-time net sales. If we look at the long trend for the rest of the year with the EUR 5.5 million net sales, it should end up more than EUR 20 million. Looking on the profitability side, the accounting business EBITDA was EUR 5.3 million, and the relative profitability was 18.5%.
In the recurring software business, the profitability was measured by EBITDA EUR 3.8 million when this EUR 1.5 million extra sales is also counted on that. The real EBITDA relative profitability is 70%. It is really good business and very good profitability. We remain the guidance unchanged. We expect the net sales to be between EUR 130-140 million and the EBITDA from EUR 36-42 million. Thank you very much. This was my part, and Otto will then continue with the strategy progress.
Okay, let's go through our strategy. Everything starts from the target state, and our ambition is the growth. We are not happy with the current speed, what we have when it comes to the growth rate. We want to focus on our core competencies and promote scalable growth. I will open this later on. First, look at the market trends which will accelerate our businesses. The first one is the legislation and market trends which are driving digitalization. For example, e-invoicing will be as a mandatory way to send and receive invoices near future in Spain. The second one is customer behavior is changing towards digital platform. The third one is digitalization is happening just now, especially in Spain and in Italy. If we look at our market.
Our updated strategy in a nutshell, our vision is most preferred financial management partner, and our mission, and we help entrepreneurs succeed. Our competitive advantage is basic for these three things: easy for use, I mean the customer applications, and automation for professional, for accountant. The more we have automated accountants' daily routines, the more they have time to care for their clients. These things we have developed many, many years, over two decades, and now we will scale both accounting businesses and, of course, these software businesses. After Q3, end of Q3, we reported up of our updated strategy, and the most important thing is that we start selling this huge and great software to our competitors as well. Before that, software were used only internally. Here's the picture of proven strategy and strong historical track record.
high investment phase is over, and fruits will be collected in the future. This first phase, 2000-2015, was the time when we created our digital way of working, and we adapted our first version of our Talenom production line. You can see in the second phase the digital transformation impact on profitability in Finland. You can see that the EBIT rate increased triple or four times higher compared to the time before adapting our own software and processes. After that, in 2019, we first went to the new market in Sweden. After that, we have invested for acquisition in foreign countries and for our software that we could implement in other countries as well, over EUR 100 million. Now we are in the phase when we are replicating our proven strategy and concept in international markets.
The first capabilities for profitable growth created in Sweden, and the second well-positioned in Spain to benefit from the e-invoicing reform. I will remind that e-invoicing will be a mandatory way of sending and receiving, and we acquired two years ago a local platform, so we are ready for this change. The third one, focusing on our core businesses, we de-invested our collection services, for example, in Finland last year, and we also ended our own banking services, and we moved this totally for our partner and so on. The fourth one, in software business becomes a second pillar alongside the service businesses. These three things are our main priorities for this year. First, improving profitability in Sweden. Second, trying to get all benefits from the e-invoicing in Spain. The third one is building sales channels and developing SaaS capabilities in the software business.
In Sweden, we have systematically implemented one Talenom operation method and process as well as our proprietary software. The benefits will come when we really get all things in place. We have technical issues we have resolved, but now we have to get all people in a way of working via Talenom Way. We invested in turning net sales on the growth track. We saw the trend turning for the better in new sales and customer churn, as Matti told. The second issue is this e-invoicing. The transition to e-invoicing driven by legislation is the most significant trend driving future customer demand. Like a tax officer is our best sales guy in the short term. We have built software capabilities to respond to the market change.
We also continue to roll out our proprietary software to our customers to facilitate their businesses and prepare them for the e-invoicing transition. Now we will drill down to the software business deeper. What is Talenom software? We have one software, and there are two different user groups, two different interfaces. The first one is this Talenom Online and Talenom App. In our opinion, this is the easiest to use software on the market for small and medium enterprises. We are also getting the feedback from the partner offices that this is very smooth and easy to sell these customer interfaces to our customers because it's so easy to use. They like to sell it. For professionals, we have Talenom Accounting. It's like the bookkeeping software, and it's the most efficient software on the market for accounting professionals.
If you look at, if you compare the interfaces, you can see so much more buttons in the professional side compared to customer interfaces. Normally, these interfaces are together, and it means that it's more difficult to use for entrepreneurs. Otherwise, there is not a good interface for accountants. We have compared our unique selling points or benefits. The most important thing is that we can really duplicate accounting offices profitably because they see that this is so smooth to use, and the automation level is so high, and so on. For entrepreneurs, it's most easiest to use. How about in figures? We have over 12,000 small and medium enterprises clients. Annual recurring revenue is over EUR 20 million. It comes like 99% from Finland. We have over 60,000 end users. In Finland, we send and receive over 9.5 million transactions, like e-invoices.
We have 140 people working in this company, and we have over 200,000 logins per month. These figures open for you a picture of the software. It's very well working, and it's like so well used. If you look at the numbers, it means that our clients have to log in daily or weekly to our systems, and it's a very critical component in their businesses. We have started to sell our software also in Finland, and now we have over 40 partner offices. In Finland, we have approximately 4,500 accounting offices. You understand if Talenom service business market share is like 6-7% in Finland. Now software is also available for the other 94%. There is the huge potential if you look at the market that we would have a good market fit.
Only in Finland, of course, we know that in Spain, the market is 10 times bigger, and in Sweden, 2 times bigger compared to Finland. Here is the development of the number of customers. If you look at the pillars, the total numbers, what there is, is the customers what we totally have in Talenom Group. This dark blue is the clients who use the software, and we have started the building separately of them. The light blue is the customers who are using our systems, but we are not building them separately, I mean the software. We have converted them to use our software, but we have not started to charge anything of the software. This orange is the potential conversion potential, and it comes especially from Sweden and Spain. This rollout process, as we have told, is ongoing just now.
You can see that we can duplicate our number of clients who can use our software, and only 40% of them are charged clients. There is like 60% of the total volume that we can charge later on. We see that in the near future, the software business growth comes mostly from the conversion and when we start charging for using software. It is good to know when you look at the pillars that in Finland, our software business price is like two times higher compared to Sweden, compared to Spain market price. In Finland, we have high prices in software business if you compare to other markets. These are the figures that we have just now and how you can estimate what is the potential of the business, how much it will grow in the future.
What's the roadmap for launching software business distribution? We reported in Q3 to start selling our software for our competitors' accounting offices. In Q4, software separated into its own company, and we are now invoicing separately for software and services in Finland. There are like two companies who are sending own invoices to end clients. Management and responsibilities of the software and service business reorganized. From the group level, I'm using like 80% of my energy for software businesses, and Juho Ahosola is responsible for the service business and reporting for me. We both have our own management team that we can really focus for own both businesses, own strength. In Q1, as you saw, we reported first time our software businesses numbered. We started also recruitment of business leads in Spain and in Sweden.
This means that it looks that we can find people from inside of Talenom who can start selling our software to other accounting companies as well. Good to know, you are welcome to follow up Talenom software brand launch on 28th of May this year. In '26, we estimate that most of the growth comes from the conversion potential from Sweden and Spain. After that, in '27, more than 50% of the platform business growth came from partner agencies. Of course, we know and believe that service business will continue growth, and a big part of the growth comes from there and the conversation. After '27, we really believe that most of the growth comes from the partner offices. This is shortly our presentation. Now it's time for the Q&A.
Hi, this is Juha from Inderes. A couple of questions. Let's start with the software business.
If I understood correctly, you are indicating that you have about 100% more clients that are not paying currently of the software, and the price level is lower. Maybe you are indicating something like 50% growth from EUR 20 million to EUR 30 million at some timeline. First question, is this a correct indication that I'm reading, and what is the timeline?
Yeah, this is like the right direction, and we don't really know how much we can really charge. If we look at the numbers in Finland, if we look at the partner offices, clients, how much we are getting revenue per client of those, it's like half of the companies what we are getting from the Talenom service. It looks like that we have even bigger clients in our service businesses compared to others.
We know that in Sweden and in Spain, businesses are smaller than in Finland. It is like between 25-50% what is the potential. The conversation is ongoing, and we will start charging. The first phase will happen at the beginning of 2026 and later on, step by step.
All right. There will be some clients that are not going to be paying, and that means churn, I suppose. What kind of churn do you expect, and what is an acceptable level? If I continue with another question from that, is that if you fail to capture the client in software, is it likely that you will lose them also in the service business, or have you been able to kind of draw that out in a way that you can still service them?
Yeah, of course, it is a risk, but we have also experienced in Finland when they have used our software and they are happy, and we have started from zero, we have started to charge of software, and there was no impact. The first phase what we can start charging is very low. Also, other method, because now there is like the fixed price and it includes software. The other possibility is also like separate as we did in Finland. We have not decided it yet, how do we do that, but we will start in any case charging separately both of them.
Yeah, and of course we offer the clients our software, but we do not force them to there. For example, if in Sweden somebody wants to use Fortnox in the future, it is possible.
We do not force the clients to start using our software. Yeah.
I will just continue on that. Do you see that the service business has the competitive advantage to keep them even though they are under Fortnox or something like that?
Yeah, yes, yes, we really believe that. We have like good method, and it is like one Talenom concept, how do we run our accounting businesses. There are many, many things which are not dependent with software, like processes, leadership, customer care, and care of employee, and so on. Many, many things we can do without software. If customers are happy, they are not changing anything. They do not want to change software. They do not want to change account. If they are happy and we are recommending our software, they can change it.
Like with what comes to the cannibalization, we do not see it in Finland, for example. It is only some clients which have moved from the service side to the partner offices.
All right. Okay, finally about the software business. Do you see the current investment level, your cost level, to be somewhat stable, or do you see some significant increases coming up in the coming years? How much is this growth, let's say EUR 5 million? Should it be EUR 5 million or EUR 2.5 million in the bottom line? Yeah.
What comes to the conversation, it does not need any more energy. Later on, when the service business is converting, clients are using software. It means that we are getting the clients in, and later on when we start charging, we get revenue.
What comes to the investment level, we want to keep this EUR 12 million new investment level. Now it looks like we can close down all systems really in Finland. It gives us more energy to use, for example, in Spain to boost its software and sales, of course. Not so big or significant increase of our personnel expenses. Of course, we have to hire some people to contact accounting offices. When we really get new clients, we have to be some person compared to some group of clients, like 1,000 clients. We have to be maybe one support people. When the business really runs well and the revenue is increasing, we see that the support functions have to increase, but the investment level, we try to beat as well and fix it as possible.
All right.
Slight increase is likely, but nothing dramatical.
Yeah. In this year, it's like in the group, we move people a little bit from the service side to software side. In the group level, not impact.
All right. Understood. Okay, let's move on to 1st quarter figures. Comparable sales growth in Finland was 5%, if I understood these figures. Is there something that is boosting that figure, or is this going to be the level to go forward also in the coming quarters?
Yes, we believe that now when the transaction volumes, the declining has stopped at the end of the last year, and now the organic growth is really coming through. We are expecting to have similar growth in the future. Maybe possibly even some growing in the age or half two, but we'll see what happens there, but definitely growing.
Excellent.
Maybe from all your areas, what kind of levels I think you are measuring the new sales compared to churn? What kind of growth rates would these methods imply in your market areas?
We haven't really announced those figures, but as said in Finland, it will be probably with the current speed, a little bit variation, of course. Now in Sweden, we are heading to that situation that the churn and the sales is pretty much on even and possibly growing in the future. The revenue in Sweden, it will decline on Q2 as well, but possibly it's getting better on the second half. In Spain, we talk about last time that the difference on net sales and churn was about EUR 1 million, and it should come through this year as organic growth.
All right.
If I understood correctly, there's some adjustments in the recurring sales in Spain. You are moving from non-recurrent to recurrent, and that, I guess, is slowing down your growth right now in the 1st quarter. Could you say like how much would it have been the growth figure without this change?
Yep. The recurring revenue is growing maybe 4-5%, and the non-recurring is slowing that down, so it makes it even, but 4-5% was the current speed.
All right. I just final curiosity. Italy business seems to be losing a lot of money considering that it has very little sales. Is this acceptable for you, or you are making some measures, taking some actions there?
Yes, we have ongoing there like actions what comes to the software businesses, and we have opened our marketplace there, Commercialista.it.
You can find it, and we like are piloting there that could be like that way our software. This is the like piloting process what we have there ongoing. What comes to the service businesses, as we have notified, we can continue service business there in the long run. Because there is this charter accountant who has like the license who can work with tax offices, and we can't have as a company this kind of licenses. The tax officer changed this point of view about one year ago, and we have been after that in this phase that, okay, we will move it only to software businesses. It is in this phase just now.
All right, so no service in Italy?
No, no service later on, but of course now we are serving those charter accountants, but yeah, that's the situation. All right, understood.
That's all for me. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
All right, thank you for the presentation. At this time, we don't have any questions in the chat, so from my behalf, we thank you for the presentation.
Okay, thank you for your audience, and thank you in online. See you soon. Bye-bye.
Thank you. Bye-bye.