Good morning everyone here at the office and there via video link. Welcome to follow up TALENOM financial statement release. Today we have some words from last year and our strategy. Of course, we will open more about the financial figures, and the end of the presentation, we have this brand renewal topic. Of course, after the presentation, you can ask any questions, we have the Q&A possibilities. I'm as the CEO Otto-Pekka Huhtala, and I have today here also two of my colleagues, Matti Eilonen, Chief Financial Officer, and Tuomas Iivanainen, Chief Marketing Officer, who will present later. First, we can start from the big picture. Our net sales growth continued as strong and internationalization progress in a digitalizing Europe.
Our net sales growth 23%, and we achieved over EUR 100 million revenue and EBITDA growth over 17% and EBIT also growth 3%. Some words of the environment. We have seen some decision which have made in Europe regarding of e-invoicing, and it will be as a mandatory during next years, and this will transform our accounting industry from traditional accounting to the digital environment, and we believe that this will really build-boost our own business as well. Neither the COVID pandemic nor the Russian military aggression had significant impact on the businesses. So far, dreaded major bankruptcy waves have been avoided and some business closures have been seen some smaller customers. This accounting industry is so defensive business, so we haven't seen any big impact for our own business. Some words from strategy.
As we have renewal our brand, here is also our new one-pager. There is the background is this European map. It's telling us that we have the business running in Europe now in Sweden, Finland, Spain, and also in Italy today. These three things, easy, automate, care, these are our competitive advantage. I try to explain by some words of this, like love of nature that how this digital transformation will really happen. First step is that our customer will start using our interfaces, digital interfaces for their own easy routines. This will standardize this method that how do we get the information to the bookkeeping process, and it's also structurize the invoices and so on. It helps us to automate our internal processes.
This means that this will save our time and we can spend more time with our customer, and it means to care. These three things are our main competitive advantage. Our vision is unbeatable accounting and banking services for small and medium enterprises. Today, Tuomas will tell more about the banking services. In the core of the picture, there is our values. Shortly, our strategy is more scalable product helps enter new markets quicker, and our growth is based on active sales, digital sales, and acquisitions. We launched these medium-term financial targets last October, and we try to achieve over 30% growth rate for net sales, an annual EBITDA growth over 15%, and growing euro denominated EBIT, and increasing dividend per share also. This is our medium-term financial targets.
This means that we are now boosting our business, and we are prioritizing growth, and we are making these growth possibilities just now. Okay. We have a proven strategy and strong track record. What I just told regarding one pager is that we developed our own digital platform during 2000, 2015. 2016 to 2020, we adapted this well also in Finnish, Finland market. Here you can see how our EBIT margin has improved. It has improved like, it's like three times higher than before adopting our whole TALENOM bookkeeping production line. This also means that, at the same time when our financial figure has developed well, also our NPS has improved well, our customer satisfaction has improved, and also personal satisfaction has improved well.
There's many benefits of the automation, what we have delivered for our personal and also for our clients. Now we see that this digital transformation is just happening in new countries in Europe. That's why we are like duplicating our concept in new countries. That's why we are delivering our own software also now in Sweden. Here you can see revenue figured, and you can see that we are the growth company, but at the same time we are going to be as a bigger player in the foreign countries. The foreign countries part of the revenue has increased very fast. Some words of strategy progress 2022. Growth will base it for organic growth, maybe one-third comes from organic, and the other part comes from the acquisitions.
As we have told, we have developing our business in Spain. We have very good basement now there. We have the own, this digital platform there. We acquired one company last summer there, platform company, and we have our own service production there. We have very good basement for fast growth there. From Spain, one topic is that the e-invoicing will be as a mandatory during next years 2024 and 2026. It means that many of our potential clients have to choose some platform to use, and we want to be in this game. Okay, third one, exploring new market areas. We went to the Italian market just beginning of this year, and now we are following that, what kind of it really is and what we have seen.
There is this e-invoicing penetration is very high because the e-invoicing has been as a mandatory many, some years in Italian market. The way of the new bookkeeping is so like old school way, so we see so huge potential for automation in Italian market. Now it looks like that we are going to grow there by organic way, mostly. Maybe we'll do some acquisition, but most of the growth should come from the organic growth. Fourth part, scaling the small customer concept. We have improved our digital sales channel, and also we have developed this banking services which has come from this small customer concept and Tuomas will open more about that because we are now delivering it also to other clients.
The latest one, software implementation in Sweden. We started this software development in Sweden last autumn in 8 offices, and we started it from the smallest clients, and now we are pushing our focus more about the little bit bigger ones. It means that we will start selling our TALENOM Online to our clients in near future. Okay, some priorities for this year is accelerating digital sales. We think about so that now we have the good basement for develop and accelerate digital sales. The second priorities is distribution of banking services. Third one, software implementation in Sweden will continue.
This is big project for us. We really believe that we can do that, and it's so big gap between EBITDA level in Finland and Sweden. Implementing our software, we really believe that we can achieve the as same level as we have Finland, this EBITDA level also in Sweden. The fourth one is weak improvement of the profitability of acquisition targets. Now we have told that this 3 years is like what we have seen that when we are acquiring new company, that we can achieve the as the same level of EBITDA as we have in core business. Now we have ongoing also project that how we could make this thing in shorter time.
Because so big part of the growth comes from the acquisition, so that's why we also want to focus for this profitability of those offices. Yes. This was my presentation. Thank you, and Matti will continue. Here you are.
Hello, everybody. My name is Matti Eilonen. I'm the CFO of TALENOM, welcome to follow this presentation of financial figures. Let's start with the revenue. The growth was 23%, ending up to EUR 102 million. As Otto told you, one-third came from the organic growth and two-third came from the acquisitions. We made all together 16 acquisitions, most of them were in Sweden and in Spain. The organic growth was driven by the increased customer number and also good development in value-added services. The net sales slowed down a little bit on the last quarter, 20%, it was one-fifth from the organic growth and rest from the acquisitions. About the profitability. The EBITDA was on a good level, it went up almost EUR 5 million.
The relative profitability slightly came down, and that's because of investment in the platform business in Spain, and also implementing of our own software and strengthening the organization in Sweden. A little impact from the brand renewal and developing of banking services and increased depreciation level had the impact on the relative profitability. The operating profit was 15%, ending up to EUR 15.3 million. It came down a little bit on the last quarter, and that's because of higher depreciation level and most importantly, the platform business in Spain is at the moment non-profitable. However, this non-profitable platform business, we still think definitely that this was the fastest and the best way to go to the market to get our own software there and user interface.
Business development in Finland was yet again strong and steady. It grew about 13%. One quarter was from organic acquisitions and rest from the organic growth. It was driven by the increased customer number and good development in the value-added services. However, we face a little drop in our volume-based business and in consulting revenue. This had a little bit negative impact on the growth rate, which I think that the economic situation has impacted in this kind of a field of our business. In Finland, EBITDA is on an excellent level, almost 40%, and this gives you the image and view that what kind of profitability we can achieve when we have highly automated and highly efficient processes.
Business development in Sweden, we had fast growth there, 82% the whole year and almost 100% on the last quarter. The relative profitability measured by EBITDA is still quite on low level if we, for example, compare it to Finland, 88.4%. This relative profitability has been pressed down by the sales investment, building supporting functions, and developing management structures and introducing our own software. However, we saw a little bit improvement there because of this supporting functions and developing management structures. The software itself didn't have any positive impact on the relative profitability.
Actually, it is slowing down at the moment, our businesses there or this developing profitability. We have started this implementation of our own software autumn 2022, and now it's ongoing in 40% of our offices. Of course, not all of the customers are in this new system. A little bit about our investments and depreciation level. We are in, we are investing to getting new customers of course, alongside that investment, quite significant investment is to our own software and digital services, which was EUR 12 million last year before it was almost EUR 12 million as well. We are focusing on our customer interfaces and developing automated internal processes.
We basically doubled our investment during 2019 and 2020. Of course, this had a great impact on our depreciation level. Our depreciation level went up almost a little bit over EUR 4 million, and most of it came from the software investment depreciation. We started to do more acquisitions heavily on 2021 and 2022. We made almost 25 of investment on acquisitions, and year before it was 21. These acquisitions doesn't have that much impact on the depreciation level as the software investment has. Depreciation level will continue increase in 2023 as the investment level increased at that time, 2019 and 2020.
If we manage to keep our investment growing more moderate way, the depreciation level increase will also create develop moderate level. About dividend proposal, we had EUR 0.27 of earnings per share, and year before it was EUR 0.25. Our board is proposing to have EUR 0.18 of dividend, and year before it was EUR 0.17. We have roughly EUR 27.5 million of operating cash flow, and we spent about EUR 7.5 million on dividend last year, and our board think that this is on a good balance between the operating cash flow and the dividend. Finally, outlook and the guidance for 2023.
We are expecting to have net sales between EUR 120 million and EUR 130 million, and this includes the existing business, the estimation of organic growth, and made acquisitions, and also the estimation of upcoming acquisitions. At the moment, we are, and we have had, quite a lot investments and efforts in the international businesses and also growing fast there. We are preferring the fast growth in this international businesses. In these international businesses, the profitability is not on the same level as outside in Finland. We are expecting to have growing EBITDA in EUR and growing EBIT in EUR. Thank you. Now it's Tuomas Iivanainen.
There we go. Hello, good morning. My name is Tuomas Iivanainen. I work as the CMO. I also have the responsibility for database business, where banking is our core thing today. Brand renewal. Yes, I will now talk through our brand re-renewal to make you understand what it means to us. We have not only worked with the brand, we have also worked with our product offering. In this slide I want to explain why, how, and what we actually have done. During about 2020, we sort of revised our strategy towards internationalization. This meant actually that our organization started growing really fast. So very big proportion of our employees are sort of very new in the organization. We wanted to get them involved in the core of what we are.
At the same time, we were entering into the bigger markets. We needed scalability. One brand and a consistent product offering is a key to be successful in this kind of an environment. How did we do it? Well, very much surveys. Deep dive surveys is a key tool which we work with. We had numerous brand clinics together with external experts to sort of understand what our identity really is and what is relevant to our customers. We had a core team of representatives of all the countries, all the business areas to work throughout the whole project. Of course, in the end, very much A/B testing to make sort of the right and correct decisions. What? Of course, audience is key. We need to know our target group. We need to know who do we speak to.
We created the narrative, the story, we create the identity, who we really are, and then some concrete stuff, the visuals, and of course a very, very, very big project, the new TALENOM.com website. You will see a fast glimpse of that in the end of this presentation. The narrative and identity, what do we talk about? We talk about numbers. We talk about numbers to be accounted for. Never, ever run out of numbers. They measure the world, but it is us who give meaning and value to them. When we talk about numbers, we talk also about our experts and their accountability. Our experts are accountable for their clients' business as if it was their own. Our pursuit is to make the world run better with better numbers. We talk about values. We trust in willpower and persistent entrepreneurship.
We are human. Genuine and caring shines in, through all in our work. We dare to challenge and use courage as our daily asset. By living our values, we inspire our clients to do so also. We define the audience, entrepreneurship, entrepreneurs. The entrepreneurial heart and mind is in the core of the community. A freshly started entrepreneur has a special place in our heart. We want entrepreneurship to be the first choice of young talents in Europe. We grow as our customers grow. We become the trusted advisors and provide structure and proactive recommendations. We do understand that the change starts from us. Our people are our backbone. We craft our mission with our people and enable rewarding growth with inspiring clients. We talk about empathy. Empathy is the starting point. Empathy makes it possible to care. It makes it possible to understand.
Understanding creates trust, and t hrough trust, we create a relationship and can provide freedom for our entrepreneurs. Freedom to be an entrepreneur, freedom to try their wings. This is the core. The rest is basically implications of all this, of going to bigger markets, of providing services to entrepreneurs throughout Europe. Like I said, not only the brand is renewed, we have very much worked on the product offering. We talk about unbeatable accounting and banking services. In the next slide, I will explain more about the banking services. It is key to understand that banking services is a unanimous part of our offering. We have now developed three service lines. The first, TALENOM, is a financial software for your business. There is a self-service, self-onboarding possibility, a very low entering point to start working with us.
In most of the markets, some of the parts and some of the functionalities will be for free. It will grow, the service offering within the software will grow, and it is a comprehensive solution. TALENOM One is the package where we combine the platform and the service and the banking. In TALENOM One, we do, and we provide the services regarding accounting, closing of books, and so on, but also we can provide the banking solution to be used from the same application as all the, all the rest of the functionalities, so from the TALENOM platform. TALENOM Pro, that is a comprehensive solution. There, the service packages go up to a level of a CFO-level service, where monthly meetings with a predetermined agenda is a part of the solution.
For entrepreneurs in need of a high-value service, we can absolutely provide them with that. We can help them do the right decisions and use the right data for their decision-making. Like said, we have worked very much with the banking because that is a key component. We have seen in the markets very many successful companies providing expense management, simply expense management, showing and issuing credit cards and giving a possibility to manage the expensesPut some limits through all that exposed to the credit cards. What we can do is we can provide the same kind of service level, but adding on to all costs and all revenue.
The same kind of visibility, not only to the usage of the credit cards, but also to the whole financials of our client's organization. As many of you may know, we started the project with Säästöpankki in the end of the summer, and now we are already in the phase of internal piloting. We will be providing our Finnish clients with the possibility of taking a TALENOM Account, which is a bank account with an FI IBAN offered by Säästöpankki. Also, TALENOM Card, which is a Visa credit card issued by Enfuce and granted by Säästöpankki. These will be visible and used from the same application as all the other functionalities that we provide in TALENOM. There is a waiting list opened when we open the website, which is basically a week from now, about a week from now.
Start of service will be during the Q1 . Let's go back to the start. Revise of strategy around 2020, entering the new markets. If we look at today, we are operating in markets which totally comprise of about EUR 25 billion. Finland being just over EUR 1 billion, Finland being slightly over EUR 2 billion, Spain being around EUR 10 billion, and Italy being about EUR 11 billion-EUR 12 billion. We have stated that we can enter into a market with a timeframe of 3.5-4.5 years. That will be evident in Sweden. What we're seeing now is that we can reduce that time in the Spanish market to about 2.5-3 years.
Meaning that the experience that we have gained on our journey towards an international organization is now giving us results in the time to market with our products and service offerings in the new markets. When this is combined with the change of the infrastructure in Europe. The infrastructure that we have in Finland, which enables us to develop all our systems and services, will be implemented in Europe with a similarity level around 95%. There will be some changes, of course, not 100% the same, but the changes are minor. This, this is a possibility for us to move fast with a more scalable product to a much bigger market area that what we have ever been seeing. Giving a service offering where accounting, banking, tax advisory services, all is packaged in one application makes us very relevant.
The target group we are talking with comprises of about 95% of the companies in these market areas. I must say, we are looking at a very, very interesting few years to work with, we hope to tell you some nice figures and results very soon. Thank you. Thank you all. Now I believe it is time for questions, if you may have some.
Okay, here you are.
You can ask in Finnish also, and as well in English.
Thank you. Daniel Lepistö from Danske Bank. I guess I have a couple of questions. My first is about the organic growth, which was somewhat sluggish in the Q4. Can you comment a bit about the volume-based growth and the consulting revenue outlook maybe going into 2023? How confident are you in terms of the state of the economy of to what direction of these type of sales and volumes are going?
Our volume-based business is about 30% of the whole business. The recurring revenue, there hasn't been any changes, we are quite confident. Of course, there might be a little bit decline on the volumes and also the consulting 2023. It's really speculative as we don't know how the economic situation because all of the crisis and so on, how it's going to develop and how the interest rate's going to behave, so. Anyway, quite confident with the recurring revenue for the next year.
Okay, if I continue on that, I guess you conducted some price hikes quite recently, if I understand correctly. How broad these price hikes were, and what is your expectation of these contributing to your organic growth this year?
Okay. Yes, we made.
We rise at our prices just that it will be effective in the first of March. Of course, it will have the boost for our organic growth, but the reason why we made so high rise it for our prices is that the inflation is going so fast as you saw just from our figures, and our fixed costs are improving. But the bigger reason is that this salary competition in accounting industry is just now very high in experts level. The biggest reason is that we want to react proactively, and we want to rise salaries, and we want to keep our expertise with us.
There is also big effect for our customer satisfaction because customers are happy with our e-experts, so that's why we want to keep also our experts happy. Maybe this is the biggest reason behind the price rises.
Thanks. Finally on this topic, can you give any color on your expectation of churn this year, both, you know, counting in potential bankruptcies and, I guess the natural churn?
Yes. At the moment, we see a little bit signs of more bankruptcies and ending up businesses and so on. Nothing like really, really significant. Yes, there is a difference if we compare it to the past.
Thank you. The next topic is about the software localization in Sweden. I guess you commented that you have started the processing around 40% of your offices there. How many local clients have you transferred to the full TALENOM Online offering, and what are your first impressions with these new clients there?
Yes. Good. I can ask answer. We started in 8 offices and from the smallest clients, we started to do the bookkeeping first. After that, we focused more about the monthly clients and for the clients which are really using TALENOM Online, our customer interfaces. We have transferred firmed over 800 clients to TALENOM accounting systems, and now we are turning those that they will start using TALENOM Online. The situation is just now that we are testing our payment services in TALENOM Online, and it will be the biggest asset for us to deliver something new to Swedish clients. That's why it's very important for us that we can really deliver the payment services and after that, we will start selling also to new clients TALENOM Online.
This spring, we will ensure that this customer interface, that there is all features in places, and we will boost transformation next fall to all offices, I think.
Can you give any sort of rough timeline when you can start the, you know, proactive sales with the full software offering in Sweden?
I hope that it will start Q2.
Sorry, can you repeat?
It will start Q2.
Q2.
Yeah.
Okay, thank you. My final question is about the integration of the new acquisitions. You briefly talked about the timeline, the traditional three years.
Yeah
... what it takes to get the new acquisition profitability on the level of-
Yeah
... the core business. You mentioned that you could be doing this faster in the future. How fast are we talking about here?
Yes, we have the huge target for that. Cut it half is our slogan, but we have tested this transformation and in Finland, we have piloted it, and it's possible to transfer from the technical point of view in three months to our concept. The benefits comes when we can transfer clients to start using TALENOM interfaces, and this will take time. Because when they really use our applications, then we have easier to automate our software, and after that, we can get more clients per accountant, and after that, we have possibilities for care services. This upselling part of is the most important, but it takes time because the customer behavior have to change.
All right. Thank you.
Yes. Next one. Yeah.
Uh,
Suomeksi, englanniksi? Elikkä tota meil on sekä Espanjassa että Ruotsissa vastaavat projektit on niin kun, on tulilla ja päästään todennäköisesti eteenpäin vauhdikkaammin kuin mitä päästiin nyt tota täs Suomen projektissa. Elikkä tällä hetkellä nähdään tilanne semmosena, että me edetään tavallaan paikallisten toimijoiden kanssa, jotta kyetään tarjoamaan ne laadukkaat pankkipalvelut. Siellä on tota joka maassa tietyt erityispiirteet, joissa tavallaan on tehty tämmösten uusien tulokkaiden tulo markkinoille jossain tapauksessa hiukan hankalaks, ja tän takii me halutaan niinku löytää ne oikeat kumppanit. Tota tällä hetkellä se näyttää tosi valoisalta, mutta tullaan heti kertomaan, kun meil on jotain oikeasti kerrottavaa. Työtä tehdään asian suhteen koko ajan.
Jes, hyvä kuulla. toinen vähän pienempi kysymys, mut mites Tiliaska? Tuliko great escape? Pistitte maksullisuuden päälle ja pankkikortitkin lähti minulta.
Mä voin tähän vastata. Tiliaskassa tehtiin hinnoittelumuutoksia ja tuota oikeastaan tähän niinkun kustannustehokkaaseen compliance-työhön, tähän rahanpesu- ja asiakastuntemistyöhön, niin siksi me on päädytty siihen, että pitää olla palveluasiakas, jolloinka tavallaan se liikevaihto on riittävä huolehtimaan myös näistä asioista. Sitten myös kun me tehdään kirjanpito, niin silloin me jokainen transaktio niinku valvotaan enempi tai vähempi käsin ja katotaan ne luvut kuukausittain, jolloinka meil on erittäin hyvä asiakkaan tuntemistieto. Tähän on erittäin hyvä asset sitten meillä tässä kokonaisuudessa.
Mä kuulin, että aika paljon lähti väkee.
Mistä?
Tiliaskan ilmaiskäyttäjistä varmaan lähti.
no ei siellä, ei siellä hirveesti niinkun kun me seurataan tavallaan, et siellä on niinku koko rekisteröintimäärät ja sitten siellä on aktiiviset käyttäjät ja sitten siellä on maksajat käyttäjät ja ei niissä kyllä niinku isoja muutoksia oikeastaan tapahtunut, että se menee hyvin tasaisella kasvulla. 200-300 uutta kirjautuja kuukausitasolla ja me ei tällä hetkellä siihen ihan hirveesti ole markkinointiin panostettu nyt loppuvuonna, koska me ollaan menossa yhteen brändiin. Tarkoittaa siis, että Tiliaskassa on vielä muutama ominaisuus, jotka tullaan siirtämään tähän TALENOMiin, niin sen jälkeen tuota ne asiakkaatkin siirretään ja näin, se tapahtuu tämän vuoden aikana liukuvasti.
Pikkukysymys. Rahoituksen hinta ja saatavuus. Näyttäis, että ainakin hyvä käyttökate versus lainat suhde näyttää olevan, eikä vielä korotkaan heilahtanu. Missäs kohtaa se ampuu sen 4% läpi?
Joo, meillä on hyvä rahoitustilanne tällä hetkellä ja sitten tietenkin näissä akvisitioissa pyritään hyödyntää omaakin osaketta ja siinä mielessä meillä on aika hyvä balanssi sen suhteen, että ne mitä ollaan suunniteltu tehtäviä akvisitioita tälle vuodelle, niin rahoituksen puolesta pitäis kyllä hyvin hoitua.
Siinä varmaan. Kiitos.
Kiitos.
More questions. Lisää kysymyksiä.
No jos Jouni Kokko, jos kieli vaihtuu, niin jatketaan näin. Elikkä tota teillä on aika nopee kansainvälinen ekspansio nyt käynnissä ja sitten mulla ainakin herää kysymys, että pysyykö organisaatio perässä? Muistan lukeneeni, että tuohon kansainvälistyvään organisaatioon on panostettu ja sinne on resursseja lisätty. Elikkä voitteko vähän kuvailla, että millaisia muutoksia on tehty ja miten tää niinku pidetään hanskassa tää ekspansio?
Erittäin hyvä kysymys ja mehän ollaan siis rekrytoitu esimerkiks HR-päälliköitä Espanjaan ja Ruotsiin ja controllereita ja Espanjaan ja ollaan vahvistettu nimenomaan näitä niinku tukiresursseja. Että viime vuonna me tehtiin tosi iso muutos talon sisällä tässä johtamisjärjestelmässä. Jonkun sanan taisin siitä kirjoittaakin ja johtoryhmään 1 vuosi sitten tuli uusia rooleja. tuotteista vastaava, markkinoinnista vastaava ja nyt loppuvuonna myös kasvusta vastaava johtaja tuli mukaan ja tuota nyt se viime vuoden aikana ja tämän vuoden alussa, niin me ollaan tää matriisiorganisaatio saatu sitten niinku rullautettua ulos ja ajatus siinä on, että mehän olemme opiskelleet tätä, että mitä tämä, mitä meillä on vietävää, mitä tää kansainvälistyminen on. Erittäin monta asiaa tehtäis nyt eri lailla Ruotsissa ku mitä silloin 3 vuotta sitten ja ymmärretty näitten niinku resurssien merkitys. Nyt meidän tarkoitus on johtaa tätä firmaa, että me mennään niinku yhtenä TALENOMia.
Kuin Tuomas hyvin kuvasi, niin meillä on samanlaiset nettisivut, tulee samanlainen tuotetarjooma. Me kehitetään vaikka jotakin Google-optimointia esimerkiksi, niin se tukee kaikkia maita samanaikaisesti. Sisältöjä voidaan käyttää ja kääntää ja niin edelleen. Me ollaan aika paljon tähän panostettu ja sehän näkyy myös niinku meidän luvuissakin. Aika vahvasti ja näin. Oikea kysymys ja siihen on kyllä kiinnitetty tosi paljon huomiota, että nyt tehdään pohjaa sille tulevalle kasvulle ja. Tuohon voisi ehkä lisätä se, että kun me tehdään akvisitioita, niin yleensä ne on aika pieniä tilitoimistoja, joissa se yrittäjä on tehnyt siellä kaiken hallinnollisen työn ja. Nyt kun se siirtyy meille sitten, niin toki me oltaisiin voitu valita silläkin tavalla, että puristetaan nyt niistä akvisitioista sitten kaikki ulos mitä saadaan ja maksimoidaan se tuloshyöty ja tota niin niin cashflow sieltä.
Me ollaan valittu tämä tie, että me rakennetaan pitempää tulevaisuutta niiden akvisitioiden kanssa, jolloinka ne tukirakenteet on pakko olla kunnossa ja se vaan kuormittaa meitä sitten siinä vaiheessa kun tämä muutos tehdään. Varsinkin tuolla ulkomailla, jossa me joudutaan siihen panostamaan ehkä vähän enempi ja se peissi tavallaan sille kannattavuudelle ei muutenkaan ole samalla tasolla kuin se on Suomessa.
Ehkä otetaan tuo vielä pieni jatko, että nimenomaan näillä toimenpiteillähän me mahdollistetaan nopeampi integraatio ja me mahdollistetaan nopeampi tuottavuuden kehitys. Että tavallaan se on se oppi mikä meillä on. Kannattaa panostaa, niin me päästään nopeammin eteenpäin. Me pääsemme siihen maaliin, missä me haluamme olla ja mehän päästään tosi nopeasti eteenpäin, kun me mennään ihan vaan prosessikehityksen ja robotiikan avulla niin sinne tuotantopuolelle niin me saadaan tavallaan nämä low hanging fruits poimittua tosi nopeasti ja tämä mahdollistaa meille siis tavallaan paljon nopeamman etenemisen ja se tehdään paikallisin voimin. Se on se olennainen points. Tehdään paikallisin voimin.
Hyvä.
Lisäkysymyksen tuohon oikeastaan jatkaa. Mites tota oletteko te etunimissä nyt tuolla markkinoilla vai onko tuolla isommat kaverit jo niinku teidän perässä?
Tämähän vaihtelee markkinoittain. Siis tilanne on niin kuin kehittymässä, että jos siellä katsotaan nyt vaikka tämmöisiä toimijoita kuin Visma. Visma juuri julkaisi omat liikkeensä Saksassa. Visma on erittäin aktiivinen Espanjassa. Italiassa saa nähdä vielä mihin me tullaan siellä törmäämään, se pointti on se, että tämä liike on lähtenyt käyntiin Espanjassa. Me nähdään tällä hetkellä, että sieltä tulee tavallaan liiketoiminnan ulkopuolelta isoilla asiakas ikään kuin kyvykkyyksillä, isoilla markkinointikyvykkyyksillä toimijoita sinne. Tämä kaikki vaan kuvastaa sitä, että jos tästä ikään kuin junasta myöhästyy, niin tavallaan se on vaikeampaa ja kalliimpaa aina jälkeenpäin. Sanoisin, että liike on lähtenyt käyntiin. Tärkeätä on olla erittäin relevantti siellä ja meidän se salaisuus siinä, että meillä on ainutlaatuinen tarjoama.
Tätä meidän pakettia ei muilla ole ja se on sitten taas asiakaskunnan puolelle tavallaan niinku paljon relevantimpi kuin meidän kilpailijoiden tarjooma, että se me nähdään, että meillä on erittäin isot mahdollisuudet. Joo, liike on lähdössä käyntiin, mutta tämä vaihtelee markkina alueittain.
Ehkä. Ehkä että miksi? Miksi liike on käynnissä? Kyllä tämä on niin kuin kerran tulee tämä verkkolasku pakolliseksi ja sen taustalla mun mielestä on ihan puhtaasti korruption estäminen. Rahanpesu toimenpiteet. Kun päästään digitaaliseen ympäristöön, se valvonta on helpompaa ja veronkeruupeitto on laajempi niin sanotusti. Se on semmoinen, että siinä junassa me halutaan olla. Questions from the online webcast platform. A few questions from Juha Kinnunen, Analyst at Inderes. I'll go through them one by one. The first question is about growth. If only 1/5 of the growth was organic. In Q4, organic growth was slightly above 4%. Has the amount of paying customers actually grown at all? I guess the prices have also risen. Has there been an outflow of clients in Sweden after the acquisitions? Aloita Matti. Okay, there's many questions. Yeah.
Matti told earlier this that how this revenue has development and we can see that this recurring revenue we are now speaking of this fixed price 70% of revenue comes from fixed price. This recurring revenue is improving well. Our sales is continuing as well as earlier and of course in this acquisition when we do the acquisition and we change some internal things. This turnover level of customer is little bit higher, but there is not like any big impact there. We have seen this also in Finland. Yeah, maybe there was all answers.
Also the currency rate in crowns is much higher. It's above 11 and it's used to be 8.
Near to ten, it has an influence on that, as well, especially on the last quarters.
Yes. Yes, that's true.
A question about profitability. Are you happy with the progress outside of Finland, especially in Sweden? I understand their seasonality, but Q4 earnings in Sweden seem sluggish. Also, how do you see the profitability in Spain going forward?
We are happy with those profitability in Spain and in Sweden as well because we have invested heavily adapting our software in Sweden. Let's put this in right context. I hope that we would have, like, EUR 30 million revenue this year in Sweden. If we could improve 30% of EBITDA margin, it means EUR 9 million. That's why we are investing to adapting software that we could really achieve the new level of EBITDA. In Spain, we have investment for the platform, as you see from the figure. There was negative impact for our profitable level. Without that, it would be close to zero, maybe a little positive. The recurring business, this accounting business is good enough.
Now we are investing for the people, as we discussed it earlier, and we try to put things together like platform and accounting business. As Tuomas told that we are improving this low-hanging fruit, we have there one guy, robots guy, who is just now adapting robots for key processes. We are happy with the figures. Yeah.
A question about guidance. Most of total net sales growth in 2023 is expected to come from acquisitions. Could you comment this a bit further, open up your expectations for organic growth in different markets? In Finland, you have made a significant price increase that should provide organic growth automatically if successful. Have you made similar increases in other countries, and do you expect significant organic growth in Sweden?
Yeah, okay. Yes, we discussed it earlier, this Finnish rise, price set. In Sweden there is so little bit different environment. We have just acquired some companies there, and there have been some politics regarding of rising the prices. There is also inflation ongoing and the rising level is, like, 4%-7%, 4%-8%. Depends of the offices and what was other questions?
Do you expect significant organic growth in Sweden? That in Finland you have made. Yeah, that was the price increase question.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes. Our sales, active sales organization is ongoing well in, also in Sweden. We are hiring more sales guys also to the city office in Sweden. Yes.
There's a question about international growth. Could you discuss your growth strategy in different markets? It's somewhat unclear whether we should expect a Sweden strategy, a platform model, or some kind of a digital light model in new countries. What's the plan in Spain now?
Yes. We will boost our Spain business via acquisitions. At the same time, in long term, we boost our growth via acquisition in Spain and in Sweden. At the same time, as we today released these new products, we try to move our focus more from the acquisition in long, medium term from acquisition to more to organic growth. This will happen in all markets, in Finland, Sweden, and Spain.
Perhaps, to continue with that, I would say, the approach is a product-led growth.
Yes.
There's not a Sweden approach. There is not a Spanish approach. There is not a Finnish approach. There is a TALENOM approach, which will address all the markets where we are, all the target groups which are relevant for us, starting from the smallest of the entrepreneurs up to the TALENOM Pro, sort of, high-level services. These are organizations who do not have internal resources working for their financial administration, and this will be led by having authority in the digital space. That will support the active sales of our active sales teams that have their feet on the ground in several places. That will support our self-onboarding and self-service organic growth, which by taking volume-wise counting the customers will be the biggest.
That will also support our acquisition growth because we have a story to tell.
It's a product-led growth approach which will be implemented in all the market areas where we are.
Yes.
The last question from Juha Kinnunen on acquisitions. Where's your focus in 2023? Still Sweden or shifting to Spain, Italy or new countries?
As we told our priorities, there's this, we want to accelerate this digital sales channel, adopting a software in Spain, delivering banking services and this productivity of acquired offices. These are our main priorities. Yeah, maybe the market RS. We are exploring new markets all the time, but maybe those are the main priorities for this year.
A question from Emilia Immonen at Carnegie. At approximately what multiples do you expect to be able to acquire companies abroad?
If we're talking about EBITDA multipliers, we are still expecting in the smaller one to be around 4 and the bigger ones maybe up to 6. That's of course varies a lot and of course in this acquired businesses they have some other benefits as well and maybe different market areas and so on. Around there, yeah, 4-6.
Okay, no more questions online.
Thank you for questions. Thank you for hearing us. Short summary, we are the growth company. We are preferring growth. This EU digitalization is just now happening in accounting industry, we have very good assets to be a part of that. Thank you.